The whole gay thing.

[Ctrl]

We DO teach and learn sexual preference is the point. You think pedophiles jump out of the woodwork wanting to bang kids? No. They were ALL FUCKING ABUSED. You are contradicting yourself if you are now saying that you think all the greeks were BORN into buggery. It was a socially influenced deviance from natural order... Why is this so hard to wrap your heads around? It is almost ALWAYS an issue of upbringing, sexual trauma, and social acceptance or defiance.

 

How many out of the closet gays do you know that werent diddled as kids? I guarantee you that any ones you know who weren't, look androgenous as hell. ASK THEM... as phantom eluded to, there is a checklist. Completely socially influenced. None of the ingredients insure that you will be gay, but 99% of gays are made of these social ingredients...

 

Why is it so difficult for people to accept that it is just possible, that what HAS BEEN TAUGHT TO YOU IS WRONG. That political correctness mandates that we do NOT study the possible, and somewhat OBVIOUS influence of social behavior on homosexuality. That before we go off letting schools teach the ACCEPTANCE of behavior that is quite possibly damaging and definitely anti-social... WE DO SOME BASIC MATH.

 

I don't give a shit if you suck dick dude... but ffs... I am not going to pretend that it does not have a cause and a predictable negative outcome. For you to do so is cowardly, and intellectually dishonest. Please... by all means... refute my claims. Show me how Greek society was genetically predisposed to this behavior, which was not limited to young boys, though they were favored, but adult men as well.

[hugo]

Posted by Hugo:Boy I don't know, Hugo. That seems a bit of a leap doesn't it? If I were to paraphrase that I would do it as follows. Individual liberty includes the liberty to deny others of their liberty. Being granted unlimited freedom to deny others of their freedom sounds counter productive to a progressive social structure.

 

If this sort of "freedom" was granted, would it not transfer to emergency and authority structures? i.e. police, firefighters, ambulance services, port authorities. Than what? Sounds like one step up from anarchism too me.

 

 

No it would not transfer to government bodies. Equal protection under the law prohibits government and its employees while doing their duties from discriminating. If you choose to work in the public sector you can not discriminate in your working hours.

 

If you work for the private sector you should apply your employers standards. If you work for a restaurant and the employer does not want you to serve a certain ethnic group then you should discriminate or quit. Similarly if your employer requires you to serve everyone regardless of race, religion or creed that is your duty. Since it is the employers private property being utilized he should be able to pick his clientele. Just like you can discriminate who you allow in your private home. It is a principle our founding fathers recognized as the right of association. A principle ignored by both Jim Crow laws and many civil rights laws. You should have the right to control who accesses your private property, a basic fundamental right.

 

Yep, there will be some clubs, restaurants, etc. that serve a niche racist market. I'd rather be banned from eating at a restaurant than have someone tamper with my food.

[Jhony5]

Posted by Ctrl:

They were ALL FUCKING ABUSED.

That is a completely sweeping generalization and completely untrue. Nothing but an excuse in some cases. For many, its just a stimuli they adopted.

 

You are contradicting yourself if you are now saying that you think all the Greeks were BORN into buggery.

I never said that. In the case of ancient Greece, it was a social issue.

 

How many out of the closet gays do you know that werent diddled as kids? I guarantee you that any ones you know who weren't, look androgenous as hell. ASK THEM... as phantom eluded to, there is a checklist. Completely socially influenced. None of the ingredients insure that you will be gay, but 99% of gays are made of these social ingredients...

 

I think the problem here is your trying to find a singular cause for homosexuality. In many cases I would think its just how it is. As a pubescent teen they saw a Hustler magazine and it was the pictures of men that turned them on, thus spawning the realization that they are gay. Granted, this is an unnatural attraction, but an attraction nonetheless. I bet if you run down that same checklist with 100 hetero people, they would score quite high. And to say 99% of gays are made of these social ingredients is overstating your case.

 

How many out of the closet gays do you know that werent diddled as kids?

Ummm...ermmm...if they're in the closet, then I'm not privy to their dirty little secret. Thus making your question mute.

 

Why is it so difficult for people to accept that it is just possible, that what HAS BEEN TAUGHT TO YOU IS WRONG.

I always question what has been taught to me. I never take a bite without knowing what I'm eating.

 

Show me how Greek society was genetically predisposed to this behavior

AGAIN, I never flippin said this. I said the opposite of this. Ancient Greece was quite different than modern America. So to draw parallels between the two concerning social behaviors influencing homosexual behavior, is asinine. Ancient Greece society allowed for pedophilia to remain socially acceptable, which tips the scales.

 

Genetics do not determine sexual preference. That does not mean that if your gay, it is a learned response due to your social environment. Genetics determine your hair color, your eye color etc. Genetics do not always give you your sense of humor or any other behavioral traits.

 

Allow me to clarify, as I'm getting the impression you believe that people must think either X or Y.

 

I do not believe genetics determine sexual orientation. I do not believe your environment (social influence) determines sexual orientation. I believe its just a random configuration of the mind. Not genetically encoded, rather an anomaly.

 

I am not going to pretend that it does not have a cause and a predictable negative outcome.

A cause? Its not like catching a cold. You can't catch gayness. You either get off on cock and balls, or you do not. Sure, theres plenty of people that were molested by their Uncle nasty and eventually this caused homosexual emulation. Possibly even preference. Like a learned response mechanism. But to generalize as to a "cause" for the majority of gays is irresponsible.

 

 

As too your references to ancient Greece. I think theres an entirely different social stimulus behind that.

[hugo]

Let me address the Greek issue. First, most Greek homosexuality depicted is between a older dominant male and a submissive adolescent male. Adult ma,es who had a homosexual relationship with other adult males were subjected to ridicule. Aristophanes mocked them on more than onr occassion. Most older dominant males also had wives, they were strictly homosexual.

 

The fact that the rate of homosexual activity varies among cultures does not prove that genes do not have a role. In societies where homosexuality is not repressed, as it is in cultures influenced by Abrahamic religions, there will be more homosexuality. No one argues that point. Genes only predispose individuals toward certain behaviors. They are not a final determinant of your behavior. I cannot point what in my upbringing led me to believe that there was something very attractive about Raquel Welch in One Million Years B.C. I was 9 at the time I saw the movie.

 

No one argues that diabetes is often hereditary in nature and can often be controlled through a proper diet.

[Ctrl]

Posted by Ctrl:That is a completely sweeping generalization and completely untrue. Nothing but an excuse in some cases. For many, its just a stimuli they adopted.

 

Adopted? For what cause? Does it get them less jail? Does it make the kids feel better? No. It is a sweeping TRUISM. You disregard the overwhelming, and I am in the deep decimal points of the 99%, of pedophiles who acknowledge that they were themselves victimized at some point? On what authority do you divine the ability to do so? What is your source? Fuck that. Stating a thing isn't true doesn't make it so. Yes I spoke in absolutes, which is normally just a silly thing to do, but in this case justifiable only because of the overwhelming nature of the majority for whom it is true. I have never heard of one who didn't, and my best friend is in the business of counsiling them during incarceration. She isn't big on excuses. You don't want me to bring HER here. She isn't nice.

 

I never said that. In the case of ancient Greece, it was a social issue.

 

you said...

 

Ya, I don't think its possible to teach or learn sexual preference. It either gets your dick hard, or it doesn't.

 

Either it is environmental (learned behavior) or you are simply born liking it or not liking it (genetically predisposed) or both. If you say both, then the genetic animal MUST pre-exist... ergo all Greece was predisposed to it. I don't know how you can argue both sides.

 

I think the problem here is your trying to find a singular cause for homosexuality.

 

I said from the beginning that I believe that there IS a genetic predisposition, but that the vast majority in this society are NOT predisposed.

 

Ummm...ermmm...if they're in the closet, then I'm not privy to their dirty little secret. Thus making your question mute.

 

Moot. I said out of the closet.

 

So to draw parallels between the two concerning social behaviors influencing homosexual behavior, is asinine. Ancient Greece society allowed for pedophilia to remain socially acceptable, which tips the scales.

 

The "fear" would be that overbearing tollerance leads to that result again in THIS society... and I am not talking about society... which people don't seem to get... I am arguing AGAINST genetics, by pointing out that this behavior, once accepted, continues to multiply, which debunks the idea of genetic predisposition. It is not assinine to point to evidence to the contrary of your opinion.

 

Genetics do not determine sexual preference. That does not mean that if your gay, it is a learned response due to your social environment. Genetics determine your hair color, your eye color etc. Genetics do not always give you your sense of humor or any other behavioral traits.

 

Allow me to clarify, as I'm getting the impression you believe that people must think either X or Y.

 

Ok... at least I understand a little better now... I am glad you brought up x and y... because there is nothing in our genetic coding that determines, prior to conception, whether or not we are going to have a boy or a girl. Our sex is determined by that Y chromosome during our incubation within the first month. Sometimes the wrong hormones go the wrong way. You get a girl with an influx of boy hormones, a boy with an influx of girl hormones. I FULLY believe that genetic homosexuals exist, and again... for those people I feel empathy, because that has to be difficult to understand within yourself.

 

A cause? Its not like catching a cold. You can't catch gayness. You either get off on cock and balls, or you do not. Sure, theres plenty of people that were molested by their Uncle nasty and eventually this caused homosexual emulation. Possibly even preference. Like a learned response mechanism. But to generalize as to a "cause" for the majority of gays is irresponsible.

 

There is a "cause" for everything. You want to not accept that philosophy and call anything you dont understand the genesis of chaos, that is your gig. I don't want to get derailed with chaos theory, but whatever that "magic" anomoly in your brain that triggers whether or not you like guys or girls has a cause, and it is irresponsible NOT to try and figure it out.

 

First, most Greek homosexuality depicted is between a older dominant male and a submissive adolescent male.

 

By hollywood maybe. Try google. The soldiers were off at war fucking eachother in group orgies. The children were generally reserved for officials and the wealthy. Slavery had a much different twist. Everybody was fucking everybody. Young boys were just the top prize, and women? Fucking women was boring. That is why Sparta fell. They stopped making babies, because they were off fucking eachother and dying in war without repopulating the lost. That, I can demonstrate.

 

The fact that the rate of homosexual activity varies among cultures does not prove that genes do not have a role. In societies where homosexuality is not repressed, as it is in cultures influenced by Abrahamic religions, there will be more homosexuality. No one argues that point. Genes only predispose individuals toward certain behaviors.

 

So your argument is that because it will be unlikely for me to disprove that all of Greece was genetically predisposed to buggery, it is the likely scenario? Come on, you are a smart guy. Do the math. Accept that social primmers decide FOR you whether or not your dick gets hard for a dude. How many hard ass motherfuckers in prison do you think jacked off to peewee herman before becoming butt pirates in prison? Fuck your logic. Be real.

[hugo]

The Sparta situation is more akin to prison sex. It involved older men and a submissive warrior in training. They were often away from women for very long periods. They certainly did their share of raping when women were available and the raping was almost exclusively of females. Once again, no one is arguing that environment is not a strong factor in homosexuality just that nature also has a role. So, do you accept the pinko-liberal blank slate theory of human behavior?

 

Why do you believe there is a high level of lesbianism among women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia?

[Jhony5]

I cannot point what in my upbringing led me to believe that there was something very attractive about Raquel Welch in One Million Years B.C. I was 9 at the time I saw the movie.

LOL. Funny, but that does draw an interesting point. Although in my opinion, sexual attraction doesn't seem to have an external cause. The movie didn't make you attracted to her. Just the fact that you saw her, your brain reviewed the image and determined that there was an attraction.

 

Genes only predispose individuals toward certain behaviors.

True. In some cases I could see how genetics determine the composition of the mind that dictates attraction. However there are many cases I've heard of whereas a son is a homosexual, yet no pattern of homosexuality exist in the family. Nor was there abuse present in the child's upbringing. So what caused the homosexual attraction? He lives in a society that frowns upon homosexuality and receives no social encouragement to be gay.

 

So what we have is a homosexual man, with no genetic precursor, no social stimulus to encourage "deviant" behavior. Other than the presence of images of males, but this changes nothing. Only it offers an image for the mind to determine if attraction is made.

 

I think the answer lies it what we, personally, find attractive. Me, I'm attracted to short, petite and often young women. I'm 34 and in the last year I've dated women as young as 18. Was it genetics that gave me this attraction? I think not. Socially I can't say I see what would have caused this specific attraction. It just is what it is.

 

When I stated that homosexuality is an unnatural compulsion, I did not mean there wasn't a biological reason behind it. Meaning the make-up or rather, the wiring of the brain. By unnatural I meant only to say that homosexuality goes against the natural order of things. i.e. reproduction and the cycle of life.

[Ctrl]

So, do you accept the pinko-liberal blank slate theory of human behavior?

 

You can't put pinko liberal in front of it or I will reflexively vomit hate text. I am not familiar with it, but chances are no. I will research and get back to you.

 

Why do you believe there is a high level of lesbianism among women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia?

 

Because when men beat women, it knocks congenital adrenal hyperplasia loose from their brains and introduces it into their system to override the displeasure of the noxious pussies of hairy dykes.

[Ctrl]

The Sparta situation is more akin to prison sex.

 

I don't know if you have been to prison, but I will tell you what they don't want you to know. It isn't just rape... oh that happens... rather a lot... power and control stuff... and a diseased sadism... but they have loving relationships too. No superior, no dominant... gentle, loving relationships. Because (I believe) the brain is wired for it. We need social interaction and love. Without it, we become Royal Orleans. Once it becomes "normal" for same sex love, you run the risk of ruining a society. After all... who is gonna fight in Iraq if there is fuckin to be done. Ok... that was a joke. I respect the military and dont want to dissiminate into a war thread.

 

So you have a very possible bad outcome from social acceptance, and I am not seeing the upside. Plus two dudes kissing in the street is just annoying, and I don't have any desire to tollerate it. I don't want to explain it to my kids. I dont want my 9 yr old boy coming home with a boyfriend from school mimicing that behavior. I believe what I call "genetic" gays don't have a choice and see it as a tortured existence. I don't want my kids emulating that because a bunch of Liza Manelli fans think it is just swell to buck social norms and constraints. I am over my rebellion against authority. I think they are silly and I just don't want it, and am waiting for someone to explain to me why I SHOULD put up with it.

[Jhony5]

Moot. I said out of the closet.

Your right, I mis-read this sentence as if there was a break after the word many. My apologies. I'd offer an excuse but I cannot drum one up at this time.

 

 

How many out of the closet gays do you know that weren't diddled as kids?

The answer. MANY. Including our esteemed Vortex. If I remember correctly he fielded that question once, and the answer was no. As a matter of fact, I've known or currently know, 8 homosexuals. None of them have ever spoken of sexual abuse. Your assertion that homosexuality is often caused by sexual abuse at the hands of same sex offenders is highly inaccurate.

 

You disregard the overwhelming, and I am in the deep decimal points of the 99%, of pedophiles who acknowledge that they were themselves victimized at some point?

Human nature when caught doing such an act of depravity is to find an external source of blame. Now, I'm not saying that sexual abuse isn't a contributing factor in many cases of pedophilia. I'm arguing that your statistics are skewed. Pedophilia is an attraction. Just like I'm attracted to younger petite ladies. I was never abused by young petite ladies as a child (unfortunately).

The definition of pedophilia? : sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object Pedophilia is, by definition, a sexual attraction to prepubescent or peripubescant children. However, not all pedophiles act on their compulsion. I assert that for your outrageous figure of 99% to be anywhere near true, it would only apply to those whom actually offend. The social stimulus or cause of their compulsion to offend? The fact that they themselves were abused which gave a warped just cause to act on it.

So when I said this>>>

Originally Posted by Jhony5

I don't think its possible to teach or learn sexual preference. It either gets your dick hard, or it doesn't.

I meant it. You don't learn attraction from others. You can however, through abuse, learn to offend. In other words, if someone gets raped as a child, it affects the mind and can cause one to develop depraved moral standards. The abuse may, in some cases more than others, lend a hand in developing the attraction, but it is not the sole determining factor. There are in fact many pedophiles whom have never touched a child, nor will they ever. Pedophilia suggests only attraction, not action on this attraction.

[Ctrl]

However there are many cases I've heard of whereas a son is a homosexual, yet no pattern of homosexuality exist in the family. Nor was there abuse present in the child's upbringing. So what caused the homosexual attraction? He lives in a society that frowns upon homosexuality and receives no social encouragement to be gay.

 

So what we have is a homosexual man, with no genetic precursor, no social stimulus to encourage "deviant" behavior.

 

You aren't providing enough input. Because THOSE things are not the primmers does not mean that there is not a thread that binds them. What about overbearing religious overtones? What about something to rebel AGAINST in authority or society in order to define ones self as different? What about an overbearing set of authoritarian parents? I am not saying you have to get fucked in the ass by uncle dave to be gay, and I appologize if it came across that way. I am simply pointing to COMMON social and genetic cues. Did the mom smoke when she was pregnant? Was there something that stunted growth during the part of conception that determines sex? I mean... lol... if you are asking me if there is a homo gene... no. I believe it is an issue of abnormal fetal development in those with a hormonal imbalance.

 

 

Sorry for triple posting.

[Ctrl]

The answer. MANY. Including our esteemed Vortex. If I remember correctly he fielded that question once, and the answer was no. As a matter of fact, I've known or currently know, 8 homosexuals. None of them have ever spoken of sexual abuse. Your assertion that homosexuality is often caused by sexual abuse at the hands of same sex offenders is highly inaccurate.

 

This was a remarkably stupid line of argument on my part, and for that I appologize. It requires that you accept my anecdotal evidence, and that of some therapists I claim to know, or counter with your own anecdotal evidence, which presumes your friends are close enough to divulge such information out of the blue. It is utterly stupid to argue either and I retract the comment, though it has been MY experience.

 

Human nature when caught doing such an act of depravity is to find an external source of blame. Now, I'm not saying that sexual abuse isn't a contributing factor in many cases of pedophilia. I'm arguing that your statistics are skewed. Pedophilia is an attraction. Just like I'm attracted to younger petite ladies. I was never abused by young petite ladies as a child (unfortunately).

 

We arent talking about heterosexuality, we are talking about homosexuality, which I am claiming is "different", so calling on your own heterosexual experience to rationalize it is not acceptable. Pedophilia specifically dealing with children has nothing to do with "sex". It has to do with "sexual objectification"... the difference I will define if necessary. The objectification is the action in question, and it is born of abuse and victimization.

 

 

The definition of pedophilia? : sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object Pedophilia is, by definition, a sexual attraction to prepubescent or peripubescant children. However, not all pedophiles act on their compulsion.

 

Show me one that didn't act on it. It is not good enough to just believe.

 

I assert that for your outrageous figure of 99% to be anywhere near true, it would only apply to those whom actually offend.

 

Bully for you. You have asserted something. The onus is now on you to prove that assertion. Good luck.

 

If you want me to redefine the terms to be "offending pedophiles" I will go ahead and grant it, as I ALSO believe that it is 99.9% of the pedophile population. You are not born with it. It is not a dark spot on a cat scan. It is a sadism born of torture.

[Ctrl]

Double post. Mea culpa.

[Jhony5]

which presumes your friends are close enough to divulge such information out of the blue.

Granted, none of them are really close enough to discuss molestation with me directly. However 3 of them are relatives of good friends. The rest are non-factors in this case as I doubt people, gay or not, discuss childhood sexual abuse so casually.

 

Show me one that didn't act on it. It is not good enough to just believe.

Well this is a tricky one. I could cite the law of averages, although I'd rather not due to its flimsy nature. Common sense would seem to dictate that with so many cases of pedophilia being documented, that there must be some that DO NOT act on their compulsion for a myriad of reasons. Morality, religious beliefs, perhaps fear of consequence or reprisal. I've seen teenage girls that are legally underage that I'm not afraid to admit that they are very attractive. Granted they are not prepubescent children thus placing them outside of the scope of pedophilia targets. I would not act on my attraction to them, simply because I find them attractive. Although this is kinda playing semantics and ultimately inconsequential as too our discussion.

 

We aren't talking about heterosexuality, we are talking about homosexuality, which I am claiming is "different", so calling on your own heterosexual experience to rationalize it is not acceptable

Agreed its different. However sexual attraction is sexual attraction no matter what your quarry. Homosexuality IS different, but it does not require criminal behavior or victimization. Its just an attraction to the same sex. A mental defect? Perhaps.

 

If you want me to redefine the terms to be "offending pedophiles" I will go ahead and grant it, as I ALSO believe that it is 99.9% of the pedophile population. You are not born with it. It is not a dark spot on a cat scan. It is a sadism born of torture to a mind that cant cope with it.

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I lean towards believing your correct. In respect to emotional damage spawning the urge to abuse. After all we aren't talking about just sexual gratification. I saw a documentary once wherein they were studying offending pedophiles. They connected sensors to various body parts of the offenders and measured their responses to visual stimulus. The images that garnished response were typically infants playing on the floor with their legs spread and other similar imagery. Absolutely deplorable and horrifying to even think of what the fuck is wrong with a person for that to happen. One case involved a guy whom had been caught entering stores and cutting pictures of infants off of diaper packages. Only to go home and satisfy his urges with them.

 

I have to say damage would have to occur for this, I guess you could term it as a phenomenon, to take place. But don't you think its reasonable to assume that some pedophiles are just simply attracted to children without the required past abuse having taken place?

[Msixty]

ok, the whole is gay a mental or social thing, argument has (in my opinion) seen many good points on both sides.

 

but i think that it is a mixture of both .

 

i'll give you two examples and why i beleave they prove this,

 

the first, is a boy that is only 12 years old, his father is a good man, he has a loving mother, he goes hunting and fishing with his dad most weekends and helps around the house cleaning and doing chores, his dad is teaching him carpentry and he has a treehouse he made himself, and he is an all around normal (to the point of creepy textbook perfection) kid. But he is also into playing with barbie dolls and he likes rainbows (steriotype i know, but it's for the sake of argument) and he is not looking at girls like some of his friends are starting/continuing to. instaid our subject is attracted to his male friends, he doesn't know why, he just is.

 

that would be genetic, our subject was born with a slightly different brain function that his friends, this has been documented to happen, and in the extreem the subject actually hase a brain of the other sex. the boy has no social pressure to be gay, he problably doesn't even know what that means, but he still likes other boys. he is natually gay, but it is becouse of a poor genetic construction, so the child actually has a genetic disorder (DAMN STRAIGHT i called him being gay a genetic disorder, i'm not being a 'hater' it's a fact) and society has nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

 

now, another boy was born and raised in california (lol, gotta stick to steriotypes) and is genetically normal, but he has a gay dad and..uh..dad, and he was raised to accept and respect homosexuality. he never really questioned it and felt that he should like boys, he isn't repulsed to women, but he thinks his dads might be upset if he started being with girls, so he found other boys like himself and 5 years down the like, well, as McD's says, Da-Da-Da-Da-Da, he's loving it.

 

that would be social, the boy had normal mental function, but was influenced so that he felt it was right, even neccesary, to be attracted to the opposit sex. and so after practicing this phisically for a period of a few years, the boy has made this his personal feelings, not just what he sees. (NOTE: this is not what i think EVERY social pressure situation is like, it's just blatent and non-subliminal to prove my point)

 

 

 

well, that's what i think, they are both big contributers, dissect at will.....

 

but leave my horrible spelling out of it, i know most of it is wrong, but i never exelled in that regaurd, and i have NO spell check or admin privalages to get one. and no that does not mean i'm stupid.

[ClassyMissFancy]

OK... Where to begin...

 

First, as to the notion that homosexuality is just a sexual attraction to the same sex ....

 

Homosexuality has been viewed and depicted as this by the PC media for years. It is utter horse shit.

 

Homosexuality isn't simply having an attraction toward members of the same sex. It is also... and MORE IMPORTANTLY... LACKING the EMOTIONAL ABILITY to intimately and romantically bond with the opposite sex. Homosexuals do not simply get together to have sex. They actually have relationships and bond in ways that they are incapable of bonding with opposite sex individuals. It would be absurd to attempt to explain this away with the notion that you can not bond in that way with people you aren't having sex with or to whom you aren't sexually attracted. Of course you can. You see people get married every day who, at first sight, could not possibly have been sexually attracted to each other yet were able to bond intimately and romantically to the point that the sexual attraction actually developed over time. (Tom Arnold and Rosanne Barr come to mind)

 

Regardless of what you have as a presupposition about the nature v/s nurture argument regarding the physical aspects of homosexuality... you MUST be willing to admit that the deciding factors in the people with whom we feel comfortable enough to bond intimately and romantically are psychological and so this INABILITY IS nurture.

 

You want to know who the real homosexuals are? They are the ones for whom same sex individuals aren't only their lovers or partners ... same sex individuals are also all of their closest friends and all of the non-familial opposite sex individuals in their social circles are also homosexuals. Real lesbians do not have male best friends and real homosexual males do not have female best friends because, while those relationships do not require romance, they DO require intimacy.

 

On to pedophelia....

 

The overwhelming majority of pedophiles are men. To me.. that says it is a nurture thing. The majority of child molesters are NOT pedophiles.

 

YES... I said MOST child molesters are NOT pedophiles. Here's why...

 

Most child molesters are not sexually attracted to children. Yes.. I said the child itself is not the attraction in the act of child molestation most of the time. Most child molesters victimize children for 2 reasons... 1. they are sexual cowards. 2. the child is available.

 

You may be wondering, But how can someone have sex with something he/she isn't attracted to?

 

Ask your hand that question.

 

The really violent ones get off on the act of forceable sex... the lesser violent groomers are turned on by the fact that they have either manipulated or tricked someone into doing something they didn't want to do... or scared someone into compliance with their wishes. It's all a power and control thing. Typically they would prefer to be doing these things to adults and if they were not cowards they would be attempting to do so. They don't because, if they try.. even once.. and fail... it blows the whole "I'm a big, bad, cunning, predator!" self image out of the water... and that fantasy of their self is the only source of self-esteem they have. Most of them do have sexual relationships with adults but those relationships don't satisfy their need to feel like they are out-smarting someone or physically in control of someone.

 

If Ted Bundy had been that kind of coward... he would have been a serial child molester/killer instead of just a serial rapist/killer

 

Pedophiles are an entirely different animal. In the same way homosexuals are sexually, intimately, and romantically attracted toward same-sex individuals and incapable of forming those relationships with the opposite sex... Pedophiles are sexually, intimately, and romantically attracted to children and are incapable of having those kinds of relationships with adults. They actually fall in love with children. In the same way women dress and behave in ways that will attract a man... And men dress and behave in ways that will attract a woman... Pedophiles will dress and act in a way that will attract children. Hold a photo of Michael Jackson next to a photo of John Couey and you will see the difference between a child molester and a pedophile.

 

Michael Jackson... There could not be a better text-book example of a pedophile than he is. He dresses like a toy soldier and talks and acts like an excited, effeminate 8 year old boy. His home is an amusement park and zoo. He arranges for children to sleep at his house… without their parents around… and in his bed. He lavishes money and gifts on children and always makes sure his victims come from a family that is less than protective .

 

So while child molesters aren't easily spotted... pedophiles tend to stick out in a crowd if you know what to look for. They are the 45 year old men who are dressed like a teenager.. in the name brands kids wear. With the baggy DKNY skater pants and the ball cap. They hang out at the b-ball court or city park. They always have the coolest new video game system and the newest games that kids just love... And they listen to all the new bands and know all the songs that kids know. And they are the nice guy who is always available to hang out with your kid when you need him to... the cool guy whose house your kid always wants to go to… the guy with no kids who volunteers to coach the t-ball team or be the scout leader. The teacher at school who seems to always find the extra time to spend with your kid... "He's such a good boy."

 

Pedophiles truly believe that what they are doing is good and right. They believe it is love and so it can't be bad. They believe the rest of society is just a bunch of ignorant oppressors and don't know what real love is.

 

Child molesters know what they are doing is wrong and harmful to their victims... they just don't give a shit so long as no one else knows they do it. Pedophiles believe they are right and so they don't think they have victims. They think they have forbidden love... so they form organizations to fight for their right to love children... as if it is a noble thing to do.

 

What both power-and-control driven child-molestation and pedophilia are… is PSYCHOLOGICAL… and thus ENVIRONMENTAL.

 

Hello... BTW

[hugo]

OK... Where to begin...

 

You want to know who the real homosexuals are? They are the ones for whom same sex individuals aren't only their lovers or partners ... same sex individuals are also all of their closest friends and all of the non-familial opposite sex individuals in their social circles are also homosexuals. Real lesbians do not have male best friends and real homosexual males do not have female best friends because, while those relationships do not require romance, they DO require intimacy.

 

 

And what the hell led you to those conclusions?

[ClassyMissFancy]

And what the hell led you to those conclusions?

 

 

I believe I made myself clear but I will say it again...

 

Homosexuals arent just attracted only to the same sex. They are also only capable of forming intimate and romantic relationships with the same sex.

 

Best friends IS an intimate relationship.

 

Let me get out the fat crayons and draw you a picture....

 

Will and Grace ... Will... He is capable of having a close intimate relationship with a woman. Grace is his best friend. He lives with a woman. He cuddles on the sofa to watch tv with a woman... He wrestles and plays physically and cries on her shoulder and offers her a shoulder to cry on. He is loyal to her and he defends her to detractors... The only thing he doesn't do is screw her. He is a classic example of someone who has chosen to be gay.

[Jhony5]

Did you just cite a fucking stupid ass god damn TV show in the middle of a serious discussion? You have got to be fucking joking right?

[ClassyMissFancy]

Well.. I had to find some way to make the simple even simpler. Hugo seemed to have a hard time understanding it the way it was.

[builder]

Well.. I had to find some way to make the simple even simpler. Hugo seemed to have a hard time understanding it the way it was.

 

You're mistaken, CMF. Hugo understands, but he needs to be convinced, to change his point of view.

[ClassyMissFancy]

I could not give two shits less whether or not Hugo changes his point of view.

 

If he wants to go through life being wrong... he has the right to do so. It's a free-ish country.

[hugo]

I could not give two shits less whether or not Hugo changes his point of view.

 

If he wants to go through life being wrong... he has the right to do so. It's a free-ish country.

 

Most people require evidence. Not wildass statements from an admitted child abuser.

[ClassyMissFancy]

What would you be willing to accept as evidence?

[ClassyMissFancy]

And I havent abused you... yet.