Are we in danger of repeating history?

[Msixty]

As we all know, America is the last super power in the world. But can it last? We are the most powerful people of all, and can take on ANY country that threatens us, we have more nukes than anyone, and the hydrogen bomb, we have the trident nuclear missile, a triple warhead weapon fired from submarines that has one hundred times the power of Hiroshima. trinium infused bombs, fighter aircraft undetectable to radar, bombers just as good, precision weapons, artillery shells that can change direction to avoid hitting our men, or to hit people that changed position. And we even have actual invisibility technology (yes, in a few years, you won't be able to even see our tanks from 100 yards away) and we have one-man portable guns that can destroy buildings in a single shot. Belt-fed full automatic grenade guns, planes that carry artillery cannons, guns that fife 1,000,000 bullets a minute. And the most highly trained troops in the world.

 

In fact, the only country i would be scared to invade without nuclear support is switzerland (you gotta know what i know to fully understand that)

 

 

BUT, are we in danger of being destroyed by another country/people? We all know the story, big empire had the world in it's hands, did what it pleased at will, was unstoppable, had every advantage, was rich beyond all belief, and was, well, a super power. Then it fell and was wiped from the map and history. Is America in danger of this fate? Could we be decimated in such a way? Or are we much too powerful to be ended with anything less that full-scale nuclear war?

 

Or is the more probable scenario that we will defeat ourselves? Could America be destroyed by the stupidity or violence of its own people? Maybe the people will grow so angry at the government that they will destroy themselves and the entire structure of America in anger and force.

[eddo]

America is doing a pretty good job of defeating itself from the indie out now. That should be our biggest concern for defeat- our own people turning against each other.

[Msixty]

America is doing a pretty good job of defeating itself from the indie out now. That should be our biggest concern for defeat- our own people turning against each other.

 

Hm, that was one of the catalyst problems with Rome, so could we repeat history in that way?

 

(I'm gonna edit the original post to include this)

[Phantom]

Our time will come. Nothing lasts forever. Egypt, Babylonia, Rome, England. etc. They all come and go. To say America's status as a super power is permanent would be nothing short of arrogant. We have only been around for a little over 200 years and look at how much our society has decayed. If our citizens don

[Msixty]

Our time will come. Nothing lasts forever. Egypt, Babylonia, Rome, England. etc. They all come and go. To say America's status as a super power is permanent would be nothing short of arrogant. We have only been around for a little over 200 years and look at how much our society has decayed. If our citizens don

[Jhony5]

We have only been around for a little over 200 years and look at how much our society has decayed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "decayed"? This is a very negative slant that blatantly discounts the events and status of Americas past. Within these borders we have witnessed civil war, slavery, direct attacks from enemy factions (Pearl harbor/9-11), the dust bowl, AIDS, black Monday (stock market crash), civil rights uprising, revolutionary war and so on. Not only did we persevere, but rather, we prospered greatly.

 

To say America's status as a super power is permanent would be nothing short of arrogant.

Our time will come. Nothing lasts forever. Egypt, Babylonia, Rome, England. etc. They all come and go.

The term 'superpower' does not apply to these old world powers within the same parameters as it does to modern America. For these old world powers to retain territory and conquer new territory, required constant defense of its claimed borders. Actual battle fields, battle lines and an agenda to sweep out across the globe with the eventual idea being world domination. This is what separates America as a superpower from all of these examples you provided. We are set. They were never satisfied with what power was held.

 

we have one-man portable guns that can destroy buildings in a single shot. Belt-fed full automatic grenade guns, planes that carry artillery cannons, guns that fife 1,000,000 bullets a minute. And the most highly trained troops in the world.

We have power that would be seen as godlike to the romans. Ya we got weaponry and technology that seems altogether overwhelming. But its not just these toys that preserve our status as a superpower. Its our refusal to continue to garnish land to add to our empire that has allowed us to retain what power we have. Overreaching was the demise of the old world superpowers.

 

I am inclined to agree, I'm sure thousands of years from now some history class will be learning "what America did wrong and how to learn from it"

Ask me and I'll tell ya, that ain't gonna happen. Not because thousands of years from now we will still be good 'ol democratic America....But rather because we, as humans, have created a power so destructive that it threatens all life on this planet. Think of a 'superpower' as a bully on the block. One man. All the others want his power. They could surround him and use their numbers to over power him. With superpowers like ancient Rome being the "bully", he had great power, but the more power he seeked, the more he spread himself thin. Eventually the masses overtook him and his status as "bully". Now lets look at America as the bully. All the others want to overtake us, but we have something the roman "bully" did not. The ability to destroy all our enemies with nuclear power. You can jump a guy with a gun or a sword, but you can't jump the guy with a nuclear bomb. Not only will the people that instigate the attack would die, but all the stragglers on the side.

 

This is why Iran, Pakistan and North Korea pose such a threat to the entirety of the world. Once they get set, theres no reversing it. Not without terrible consequence that would threaten all life on Earth.

 

If the world is a ship, and America is the captain, than mutiny without the sacrifice of the ship is not possible. It is technology that separates us from these old world examples of power lost.

 

Or is the more probable scenario that we will defeat ourselves? Could America be destroyed by the stupidity or violence of its own people?

Bahhhh....America has always been violent and politically turbulent. Always has it contained dissenters and a rogue element. Things like this always seem worse in one's own time. Just like teen pregnancy, smoking and violence. Its always been this way. Teens have always smoked and fucked and killed. Sensationalist media and the availability of instant information has perpetuated the feeling that things are worse now than they ever have been. Its an illusion. There are only more instances of these things because there are more people to act this way. On scale, there isn't a great epidemic of these things. The media wants you tho think so. But thats not the case at all.

[Msixty]

to jhony: Thank-you-sir! we got a good devils advocate lol

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "decayed"? This is a very negative slant that blatantly discounts the events and status of Americas past. Within these borders we have witnessed civil war, slavery, direct attacks from enemy factions (Pearl harbor/9-11), the dust bowl, AIDS, black Monday (stock market crash), civil rights uprising, revolutionary war and so on. Not only did we persevere, but rather, we prospered greatly.[/Quote]

 

Very true, but we have the media and most people in influential positions (lots of the fuckers in Hollywood for example) who are actively trying to turn the people against themselves, and they think they are right, and they want everyone else to think so to. The anti-gun advocates, United Nations lovers, communists, all of the people that think our country would be better off without the freedom of the people. They have a profound affect on the thinking of the young masses, who will in turn affect the next generation, and so on. So in this we may be our own demise.... So as a country we are stronger than ever, but as a culture...well, Lets just say that the academy awards and the Emmy Awards should be 'vote from the rooftop' occasions. (may i cast my ballot in .308 WIN. ?) joking....

 

But really, we can impeach the president, can we kick people out of entertainment? Oh Yeah! We 'impeached' the Dixie chicks lol, i forgot all about them.

 

The term 'superpower' does not apply to these old world powers within the same parameters as it does to modern America.[/Quote]

 

It has only one parameter, back then, a hundred thousand men-at-arms was the nuke...

 

For these old world powers to retain territory and conquer new territory, required constant defense of its claimed borders. Actual battle fields, battle lines and an agenda to sweep out across the globe with the eventual idea being world domination.

 

We are constantly fighting to keep Iraq from being overrun by insurgents, we are in hotspots all over the world, many with literal fields of battle. And we are sweeping out across the world, with the eventual idea of world freedom and democracy. So there is not so much a difference as you think...

 

This is what separates America as a superpower from all of these examples you provided. We are set. They were never satisfied with what power was held.[/Quote]

 

We are not set, just before the civil war we invaded Mexico and took Mexico city to force Mexico to sell us California, whats to say we don't get some asshole in office and a bunch more assholes in the senate and house that pull another 'Mexican war' ?

 

Its our refusal to continue to garnish land to add to our empire that has allowed us to retain what power we have.

 

We are still fighting to spread freedom, and we are spread just as thin. We have military in EVERY part of the world, the defense of America is mostly for the national guard and armed citizens if a real war on America brakes out.

 

Overreaching was the demise of the old world superpowers.

 

like i said, we are in every part of the world.

 

This is why Iran, Pakistan and North Korea pose such a threat to the entirety of the world. Once they get set, theres no reversing it. Not without terrible consequence that would threaten all life on Earth.

 

I refuse to disagree with all of this statement, exept one point, there is ALWAYS a way to dislodge them, and the earth does not need to burn for it to happen. We could even be wiped out, why? Because we will think about the innocent people, and that pause will be our demise. Anyway, i do agree that they MUST be disarmed, and i happen to be of the generation that will most likely be in the middle of that fight if and when it happens, PFC. Hazel on the Mark 19, get some! (I'm a pro-active teen )

 

If the world is a ship, and America is the captain, than mutiny without the sacrifice of the ship is not possible. It is technology that separates us from these old world examples of power lost.

 

uh, you seem to be thinking of china, the world can go without us, but what will they do with no... well.. everything.

 

Bahhhh....America has always been violent and politically turbulent. Always has it contained dissenters and a rogue element. Things like this always seem worse in one's own time. Just like teen pregnancy, smoking and violence. Its always been this way. Teens have always smoked and fucked and killed. Sensationalist media and the availability of instant information has perpetuated the feeling that things are worse now than they ever have been. Its an illusion. There are only more instances of these things because there are more people to act this way. On scale, there isn't a great epidemic of these things. The media wants you tho think so. But thats not the case at all.

 

yep, i totally agree, but there ARE more loud mouth anti-USA fuckholes, and they pose a pretty big threat if not kept in line.

[Jhony5]

The anti-gun advocates, United Nations lovers, communists, all of the people that think our country would be better off without the freedom of the people.

Again I think these aspects of our culture are greatly exaggerated by the media. Both through news reports and fiction based television drama. I concur that there is a weakening of society through popular culture. Everybody, it would seem, wants to be plugged in to the mainstream. Assimilation through entertainment, as it were. A by-product of commercialism brought on by the capitalist society we are all a part of. However don't forget the ones like you and me, on the fringe of society that take shots from the good and beautiful people that view our weapons and cruel disdain for social oppression (amendments to the Constitution that reel back our freedoms) as a threat to them. The reality is there are many more of "us" than the media wants to admit.

 

They have a profound affect on the thinking of the young masses, who will in turn affect the next generation, and so on. So in this we may be our own demise....

I understand the trickle down effect of the proliferation of pop-culture. This "Lets all be the same, wouldn't that be swell" attitude displayed by so many young people sickens me. As long as there are good numbers of us that say "Hell fuck no, I want my rights, not my MTV", than our nation is safe.

 

It has only one parameter, back then, a hundred thousand men-at-arms was the nuke...

Only by way of the effect it has on the army they fight against. 100,000 men don't cause acidic rain and nuclear winter. 100,000 men don't cause a drifting cloud of poisonous death to kill plant and sea life.

 

We are constantly fighting to keep Iraq from being overrun by insurgents, we are in hotspots all over the world, many with literal fields of battle. And we are sweeping out across the world, with the eventual idea of world freedom and democracy. So there is not so much a difference as you think...

I understand your sentiment here, but....Well you're a military enthusiast so you should appreciate the difference between what is going on in Iraq, and the 'conquering' of a nation. If we intended on conquering Iraq and its people, you know dam good and well we wouldn't be playing democracy police with them. Technology has done away with our need to get mired in 'insurgent raids' and all the other pussy fuck bullshit we see in Iraq. Notice I said "need". As in, if we needed to, or desired to, bring the nation of Iraq and its people to its knees, then its point and click warfare.

 

We are not set, just before the civil war we invaded Mexico and took Mexico city to force Mexico to sell us California, whats to say we don't get some asshole in office and a bunch more assholes in the senate and house that pull another 'Mexican war' ?

C'mon bro, thats not gonna happen. We are set, meaning our borders are defined and our need for new territory has been done away with. If we need oil reserves we can utilize Alaska for the purpose that we actually acquired it for. OIL. Unfortunately so many faggot treehuggers shut down alot of the oil drilling in Alaska because of wildlife conservation. If the need arises, than most certainly we will drill that barren state dry. Fuck the moose'. I need my oil.

 

We are still fighting to spread freedom, and we are spread just as thin. We have military in EVERY part of the world, the defense of America is mostly for the national guard and armed citizens if a real war on America brakes out.

Granted we are based all over the globe. We have bases in well over 200 nations I believe. But we are not conquering the world, we are protecting it. Most of those nations want us there. This is the difference between modern America and old world superpowers. We aren't trying to rule the world, only keep it safe from annihilation.

 

like i said, we are in every part of the world.

They called it world war II for a reason. To the victor went the spoils. In this case the spoils were manifested in the form of America being the ones who spread out all over the world. Imagine if the Nazi's had won and they were the ones with bases all over the world. Yes we are spread out pretty thin. But not in an effort to rule the respective nations we occupy. If that was the case than you would have a valid point mentioning that. Whats more is we have an all voluntary military. Which speaks volumes toward what we can accomplish if need be. Never before has the world witnessed such power being wielded by a nation with an all volunteer military.

 

i happen to be of the generation that will most likely be in the middle of that fight if and when it happens, PFC. Hazel on the Mark 19, get some! (I'm a pro-active teen

No shit! Go get 'em killa.

 

uh, you seem to be thinking of china, the world can go without us, but what will they do with no... well.. everything.

China is quietly is becoming an economic superpower. They pose no direct threat. Their allegiances are what makes them threatening.

 

 

 

Its been said for decades now. That WWIII will be the apocalyptic climax to the homosapiens existence on Earth. Hominids have gone from tree dwelling quadrupedal herbivorous monkeys, too omnivorous bi-pedal thinkers. So smart in fact, we now hold the power to kill fucking everybody. 5 million years various forms of man have walked the earth, with no applicable doomsday clock. Only 150,000 years of homosapiean and we've gone from spearchucker to potential planet killers. This may seem off topic, but it is not. Whatever faction/nation held the front position in the struggle for world power, by now would have the same catastrophic military capabilities that America now does. Thank Jebus its America.

 

I'm a child of the 1980's. Lemme tell ya, we were all scared shitless that WWIII was gonna happen soon. Back then it was the Soviet Union that threatened us. The washy scenario depicted in movies like 'Red Dawn' attempted to show the plausibility of a successful invasion and the downfall of America. However now our enemies are far less rational than were the Ruskies. They didn't believe that destroying the infidels would inherit them eternal martyrdom. The Soviets were fervent, not fanatic. In the end the cold war gave way to common sense and we were all safe for the time being. Our new enemies aren't interested in occupying our land and extorting our power base. They want us all fucking dead. Even at the cost of their own lives, their children's lives or even the future of life on Earth. This isn't life to them. This is pre-life. Life is found in death for the fanatic Muslim and the ramifications of apocalyptic annihilation of mankind is nothing but a means to an end for their cause.

[Phantom]

I'm not sure what you mean by "decayed"? This is a very negative slant that blatantly discounts the events and status of Americas past. Within these borders we have witnessed civil war, slavery, direct attacks from enemy factions (Pearl harbor/9-11), the dust bowl, AIDS, black Monday (stock market crash), civil rights uprising, revolutionary war and so on. Not only did we persevere, but rather, we prospered greatly.

 

I was actually referring to moral decay but it could also refer to political and government decay as well. In my opinion, our forefathers were on a mission for liberty, independence, and freedom. Today's politicians seem to be a on a mission for greed, self righteousness, and status. As for the people, morals, work ethics, and personal responsibility are on the decline. As for the military, I feel it has never been better! Although our military will not serve as our salvation, its strength can protect us for as long as it is strong- or until a bigger dog comes along.

 

The term 'superpower' does not apply to these old world powers within the same parameters as it does to modern America. For these old world powers to retain territory and conquer new territory, required constant defense of its claimed borders. Actual battle fields, battle lines and an agenda to sweep out across the globe with the eventual idea being world domination. This is what separates America as a superpower from all of these examples you provided. We are set. They were never satisfied with what power was held.

 

I definitely feel the term "super power" is appropriate in describing governments like Rome, Egypt, Babylonia, and Persia. Although they obviously did not have our military technology, they were something we were not- a one world government. Their empires ruled the known world. Although the US might pretend to, we really don't.

[Jhony5]

In my opinion, our forefathers were on a mission for liberty, independence, and freedom.

Thats great that you paid attention to the patriotic propaganda of your history teacher. But I beg to differ. They had great vision and set in motion some very novel ideas which led to the construction of democracy here in America. For the most part they were racist elitist that, despite their claims, didn't envision America as being a land where all men were created equal. For landowning white men, yes. Niggers, poor people and women, well thats another story.

 

Today's politicians seem to be a on a mission for greed, self righteousness, and status.

Politicians have always been this way. The availability of instant information in our age creates the illusion that things are different now.

 

Their empires ruled the known world. Although the US might pretend to, we really don't.

I don't see it. How the US "pretends" to "rule" the world. When have we EVER conquered a nation and enslaved their people? I'm not talking about Americas participation in the slave trade. If anything that shit came here from the migrants of Europe. At the time considered business as usual by the European white man.

In a modern context, how are we pretending to rule the world? Because we don't want to see the mistakes of the past repeat themselves? Preventing cruel dictators to rise up as a nuclear power isn't "ruling the world". The point I'm trying to convey is that if many other nations had the might that we have, they would quite literally rule the world. No pretending. No mistake about it. They would hold other cultures under oppressive rule. This has been proven in the past to be true.

[Phantom]

Thats great that you paid attention to the patriotic propaganda of your history teacher. But I beg to differ. They had great vision and set in motion some very novel ideas which led to the construction of democracy here in America. For the most part they were racist elitist that, despite their claims, didn't envision America as being a land where all men were created equal. For landowning white men, yes. Niggers, poor people and women, well thats another story.

 

The freedoms of American citizens certainly came in stages- no argument there. However, to say ALL the forefathers were freedom fighters of liberty and the pursuit of happiness or that they were ALL slave owning white elitists is classifying everything as black and white. I would have to say you are also listening to the propaganda.

 

First of all, slavery and the oppression of women had been around for millennia- no one was really enlightened at this point in the game. The forefathers wanted to build a nation independent of England and its dogmatic religion (freedom of religion), limitations of citizens' rights (individual property rights, as one example), revamp the structure of the taxing system (no taxation without representation), and all the other good stuff they felt needed improvement. Again, freedom was an evolutionary process that progressed with enlightenment that ALL humans (not just white land-owning males) were created equal.

 

Politicians have always been this way. The availability of instant information in our age creates the illusion that things are different now.

 

I agree with you. Again, I was stereotyping in blatant terms of black and white. You are right, I was wrong.

 

I don't see it. How the US "pretends" to "rule" the world. When have we EVER conquered a nation and enslaved their people? I'm not talking about Americas participation in the slave trade. If anything that shit came here from the migrants of Europe. At the time considered business as usual by the European white man.

 

You do not feel that we sometimes act as the world police?

 

In a modern context, how are we pretending to rule the world? Because we don't want to see the mistakes of the past repeat themselves? Preventing cruel dictators to rise up as a nuclear power isn't "ruling the world".

 

Good point. However, I didn't say what we were doing was wrong, just that we do like to police the other nations.

 

The point I'm trying to convey is that if many other nations had the might that we have, they would quite literally rule the world. No pretending. No mistake about it. They would hold other cultures under oppressive rule. This has been proven in the past to be true.

 

Very true and I couldn't agree more. Again, I am not defending or attacking our current involvement in foreign affairs- just calling it the way I personally see it.

[Jhony5]

First of all, slavery and the oppression of women had been around for millennia- no one was really enlightened at this point in the game.

I'll give ya that. If any of them had suggested blacks should get equal rights than they likely would have faced the firing squad.

 

You do not feel that we sometimes act as the world police?

Thats exactly how I feel, and its a damn good thing. The world is a community. Without international laws and someone with power AND good intentions, this "community" would see the continuous uprising of cruel leaderships. Which, after the Pandora's box that was opened by the advent of nuclear technology, would have already led to some very serious standoffs. Say for instance if Saddam had not been toppled. 10 years from now he has nuclear technology and the ability to deploy accurate long range warheads. He could have spread out, conquering nations. This might sound somewhat rudimentary, but the only response we could expect is "What the fuck are you going to do about it".

 

Its healthy to criticize the only remaining superpower. But to question the merits of international policing of rogue nations given the danger of nuclear arms, is foolish at best. Many nations helped us to achieve our status. It wasn't all us. But here we are. Rest on our laurels and the danger of apocalyptic warfare becomes a present danger, not a future possibility.

 

The OP of this thread was to question whether or not America could be toppled. My answer is no. I base that strongly on the one sole reason that we possess such massive nuclear capabilities. Now translate this scenario to a nation like Iran or North Korea, permitting that they were to posses the same capabilities, and I would answer the same. Can Iran be toppled with this power. Nope. They will either do as they wish, or destroy the Earth in retaliation.

 

It sucks, but people all across the globe must pick who they think should be the big man on the block. Us or them?

[Msixty]

If we need oil reserves we can utilize Alaska for the purpose that we actually acquired it for. OIL. Unfortunately so many faggot treehuggers shut down alot of the oil drilling in Alaska because of wildlife conservation. If the need arises, than most certainly we will drill that barren state dry. Fuck the moose'. I need my oil.

 

For one we are not a barren state, for two we have shitloads of oil drilling up here, I'd know, my dad is field management wells division for shlumbeger on northslope.

 

We are one of the most low-impact drilling areas in the world, we could drill out every drop of oil and not create anything close to an environmental catastrophe. And leave the fucking moose alone, SNAFU and i need food and moving targets

[Jhony5]

For one we are not a barren state, for two we have shitloads of oil drilling up here, I'd know, my dad is field management wells division for shlumbeger on northslope.

Maybe I've been watching to much TV, huh? I think Alaska is absolutely beautiful, btw. I'm an avid outdoors men so I appreciate to landscape. I based that crack on a statistic I heard about the lack of roads and the need for airplane travel within the state.

 

As to the oil issue. Is it not true that much of the potential drilling spots are off limits due to wildlife and other conservation issues?

[Jhony5]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/11/AR2006011102211.html

[Msixty]

Maybe I've been watching to much TV, huh? I think Alaska is absolutely beautiful, btw. I'm an avid outdoors men so I appreciate to landscape. I based that crack on a statistic I heard about the lack of roads and the need for airplane travel within the state.

 

As to the oil issue. Is it not true that much of the potential drilling spots are off limits due to wildlife and other conservation issues?

 

be wary of the news lol.

 

 

and no actually, ANWAR is the main one, but pretty much everything else is fare game. most of them are not worth the expense though.

[ParasiteGod]

I just have to say, the rise and fall of bellbottoms serves as an indicator of our country's future failures.

[snafu]

The way things are going I do think we are not invincible. The Liberals are the enemy from within. They don

[Msixty]

The way things are going I do think we are not invincible. The Liberals are the enemy from within. They don

[ParasiteGod]

I don't really care about the Patriot Act. I've got nothing to hide, and if I did, I'm willing to take respnsibility for my actions.

And let's face it, it's not like I'm important enough for the government to spend a million dollars or so tapping my phonelines, when they could be off having a war instead.

Le'ts put the liberals into my sun-pod with all the extremists I don't like. I don't feel like going into it here, but liberals need to STFU/GTFO.

[Msixty]

I don't really care about the Patriot Act. I've got nothing to hide, and if I did, I'm willing to take respnsibility for my actions.

And let's face it, it's not like I'm important enough for the government to spend a million dollars or so tapping my phonelines, when they could be off having a war instead.

Le'ts put the liberals into my sun-pod with all the extremists I don't like. I don't feel like going into it here, but liberals need to STFU/GTFO.

 

the P.A. gives police the freedom to pull you over, search your car, and interrogate you with no evidence needed, they could just think, "man, i fucking hate ford's, i bet he has a bomb in his" and instantly your day starts to suck.

 

 

but i do like the sun pod, can we put the fake war heros that ran for president in front?

[Jhony5]

The Liberals are the enemy from within.

They don

[Msixty]

Our enemy has a face, and we all know what that face looks like.

 

yep, he's a midde eastern guy with a beard. who needs more target identification than that?

 

 

There is a reason why we don't have a third or fourth party.

 

Green party anybody? (i hate em' with a passion, but they still exist...)

[snafu]

I don't really care about the Patriot Act. I've got nothing to hide, and if I did, I'm willing to take respnsibility for my actions.

And let's face it, it's not like I'm important enough for the government to spend a million dollars or so tapping my phonelines, when they could be off having a war instead.

Le'ts put the liberals into my sun-pod with all the extremists I don't like. I don't feel like going into it here, but liberals need to STFU/GTFO.

 

 

Exactally.

 

Plus the cops aren't sitting there listing for you to go out and buy a bag. The CIA is using this information. I don't think they give a shit about your petty crimes. We need security.

There should be a checks and balance to it though.

 

What would Patton think of the America now?

[Msixty]

What would Patton think of the America now?

 

 

Someone would have a Sherman tank lodged up their ass backwards.

 

 

i wonder what Andrew Jackson would think...