Israel VS Palestine

[Anna Perenna]

Who is (moreso) in the right?

 

If you consider the history of the state of Israel:

 

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1880: Zionists start to settle in Palestine when it is under Ottoman rule

 

1917: The British declare support for a Jewish 'national home' in Palestine

 

1918 - 1947: The League of Nations mandate given to Britain does not satisfy Zionist ambitions, although Jewish immigration in the 1930's to 1940's increased due to Nazi persecution

 

Post WW2: The British evacuate Palestine, unable to control a flood of Jewish immigration heavily supported by the USA.

 

1947: Tension between Arabs and Jews leads the UN to support the formation of two states in Palestine, one Jewish and one Arab. Naturally, the Arab side rejected this proposal.

 

1948: David Ben Gurion announces the creation of the Independent State of Israel. Military conflicts with surrounding countries ensued in which Israeli forces were victorious.

 

1956: The Suez Crisis war

 

1967: The Six Day War - within which Israel takes control of the Gaza strip, the Sinai peninsula as far as the Suez Canal, the West Bank of the River Jordan including the eastern sector of Jerusalem, and the Golan Height in Syria (these areas have since been very kindly referred to as 'occupied territories')

 

1973: The Yom Kippur War

 

1979: Amazingly, a peace agreement between Israel and Anwar Sadat (Egypt) is made.

 

1982: Lebanon War - within which the PLO were forced to leave Beirut from 1982 until 1985.

 

1990's: Several failed attempts to launch peace talks are made to try and solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

 

1993: Declaration of principles on Palestinian self rule is announced

 

1994: Israel and Jordan sign a peace treaty

 

1994-1995: Jericho and The Gaza Strip are given autonomous status

 

1996: Recurrent suicide bombings in Israeli cities; An armed 'struggle' in South Lebanon; more fighting between West Bank Palestinian citizens and Israeli forces.

 

1997: Israeli troops were withdrawn from the West Bank town of Hebron, in accordance with the terms of the 1993 Oslo peace agreement, which required the handover of seven major West Bank towns to Palestinian rule. However, soon afterwards there were further attacks by 'fundamentalist terrorists' due to the government's policy of building Jewish settlements in Arab areas.

 

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..... and then consider this tasty little tale:

 

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Mordechai Vanunu was an Israeli nuclear technician

 

He was a junior member of a team of staff developing Israel's nuclear arsenal.

 

His disillusionment with the duplicity of his government, which had always claimed that it would not be the first Middle eastern country to acquire atomic weapons, led him to resign his post in 1986. Later that year The Sunday Times published an interview with Vanunu in which he revealed that Israel had already stockpiled up to 200 atomic bombs at an underground factory in the Negev desert.

IN September of that year he was abducted at Rome airport by Mossad agents and returned to Jerusalem. After a secret trial he was found guilty of treason and sentenced to 18 years in solitary confinement.

 

This should mean he was released in 2004, and he was, but he has been arrested several times since then due to bullshit 'violations' and whatever other trumped up charges the Israeli government can conjure.

 

And Israel defines itself as a 'democracy'.

 

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..... It becomes difficult to understand why anyone would support the Israeli regime. The Palestinians aren't the terrorists - the Israeli's are!

 

Much like the USA used the fear and ignorance that stemmed from 9/11 to gain support for invading Afghanistan and Iraq, it seems obvious to me that the Zionists at the time used sympathy and guilt over the holocaust as a means to gain support for a totally unnecessary Zionist state. Not only that, but they have used an unnecessary amount of violence in order to get what they want, all the while claiming to be persecuted victims.

 

The beginnings of the Jewish diaspora predate the birth of Christ, so it's a little fucking audacious for them to expect to be able to reclaim this land - and in such a disrespecful, cruel and violent manner - thousands of years later.

 

Frankly I have no sympathy for the state of Israel, and I think that they should just get the fuck out of Palestine.

 

If you support Israel, please tell me why, because I don't understand. And I don't want to hear about the holocaust because two wrongs don't make a right.

[phreakwars]

I support Palestine.

 

I think the BIG arguement you will hear from people as to why they don't support Palestine would be because "THEY ARE MUSLIMS" to which my answer would be... "YEAH SO.. AND YOUR CHRISTIAN / JEW GOD SAYS THE LAND IS YOURS ??" Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu... who cares ??

 

I mean.. what's the big fucking hoopla over this chunk of land anways ??

 

It's sacred ??

 

I guess my personal belief, is sacred things must stay pure and untouched.

 

I find it odd that lives could be lost in many wars over being able to live close to the sacred grounds of alleged phrophets who have long since been dead.

 

What if a group of indians on the reservations in America started claiming land away from the reservations as sacred and started demanding people leave ??

 

It WAS their land first after all.

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[fullauto]

please don't think that Me being a Nazi has anything to do with this... But on this issue ALONE I support the Arabs...

 

We (the UN/West) had no god damned right to take the land from the Palestinians and give it to their sworn enemies!

 

How would you feel if we took your home town, evacuated everyone, and made it the state of Binladenium, because Allah said the whole world was thiers?!

 

Fuck that... Let the war begin! Whomever is left standing when the dust settles is the proud owner of that chunk of land...

[Phantom]

Technically, the land belonged to the Jews first- up to 2,000 years ago. They were driven out by the Romans in the war of 70 A.D.

 

Obviously, 2,000 years is a long time to retain any rights to the land but if we want to use "who was their first" as an argument, then that would be the Jews. I can't remember when the Muslims took control but I think it was around 600 A.D. (someone please correct me if I am wrong). The Jews possessed the land for centuries before eventually being driven out by the Romans.

 

End of history lesson.

 

As for Israel, I would like it to remain a Jewish country but I do understand why the Muslims are so angry. It would be just like Phreak said- us being driven out because the Indians wanted their land back.

 

The land of Israel was a Jewish settlement originally. Regardless, the Muslims can fight all they want. The land is going to remain in the hands of the Hebrews.

 

On a side note, did you guys know the Bible prophesied the rebirth of Israel as a nation down to the day? The prophecy is something like 3,000 years old and most biblical scholars scoffed at the idea that the nation of Israel would be reborn, regardless of the fact the Bible said it would return to the Israelites in the last day. Pretty interesting stuff.

[snafu]

If the Palestinians would just compromise! Islam is hell bent on total world control.

The world is smaller with much more people and we are all here by chance. We should all get along. But if someone wanted me wiped off the face of the earth I would have to defend myself too.

So I have to go with Israel.

[Phantom]

If the Palestinians would just compromise! Islam is hell bent on total world control.

The world is smaller with much more people and we are all here by chance. We should all get along. But if someone wanted me wiped off the face of the earth I would have to defend myself too.

So I have to go with Israel.

 

What I do not understand is that Palestine is freaking HUGE- several countries. Israel is nothing more than a little sliver of land. I would personally like to see the Arabs get over it but it just isn't going to happen. In almost every peace agreement, the Israelis hand over a little bit more of their land.

[eddo]

If the Palestinians would just compromise! Islam is hell bent on total world control.

The world is smaller with much more people and we are all here by chance. We should all get along. But if someone wanted me wiped off the face of the earth I would have to defend myself too.

So I have to go with Israel.

 

I completely agree.

[fullauto]

What I do not understand is that Palestine is freaking HUGE- several countries. Israel is nothing more than a little sliver of land. I would personally like to see the Arabs get over it but it just isn't going to happen. In almost every peace agreement, the Israelis hand over a little bit more of their land.

 

That land is WAY too valuable to Xtians/Jews/Muslims for any side to just roll over and cede it away...

 

Jews - Ancesteral homeland

Xtians - Land of Jesus's birth, death, and ministry

Muslims - Ascention of Mohammed.

 

And not to mention the starteling new info out of antiquity about what really happened there...

 

This will not be solved untill WWIII is over, or the Gods return...

[Phantom]

That land is WAY too valuable to Xtians/Jews/Muslims for any side to just roll over and cede it away...

 

Jews - Ancesteral homeland

Xtians - Land of Jesus's birth, death, and ministry

Muslims - Ascention of Mohammed.

 

Enough said. It was theirs first. Just because subsequent events took place in the land that were important to other groups, it is THEIR homeland.

 

And not to mention the starteling new info out of antiquity about what really happened there...

 

Like what? Explain.

 

This will not be solved untill WWIII is over, or [the] Gods return...

 

Agreed.

[fullauto]

In the big scheme of things my vote would have to go to the Israeli's. not because they are more entitled to it but rather a more logical reason. you can get along easier with a bunch of Jews vs a bunch of Muslims. as a society playing a role on the world stage better the Israeli's then a Muslim nation, just because of the simple reality of getting along long term.

 

Islam is hostile, expansionist and repressive when instituted as a dominate religion. All historical considerations aside best to go with a neighbor you can communicate with vs a rabid dog.

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Both groups are notorious for not assimilating... and both are zealous about how they operate... Muslims tend to be very fanatical and up front with violence, whereas Jew tend to be more sublime, and exploit people financially....

 

But overall, I would much rather be surrounded my jews rather than muslims... they are less fanatical:D

[hugo]

I don't think our government should give a single penny to either side.

[fullauto]

I don't think our government should give a single penny to either side.

 

Im with you on that

[builder]

I don't think our government should give a single penny to either side.

 

If your political elections weren't based on donations from rich arseholes, then paybacks might not have to be made.

[Anna Perenna]

Technically, the land belonged to the Jews first- up to 2,000 years ago. They were driven out by the Romans in the war of 70 A.D.

 

Actually, the Philistines were there first - the Jews came second - and they started 'scattering' in around 6 BC.

 

Obviously, 2,000 years is a long time to retain any rights to the land but if we want to use "who was their first" as an argument, then that would be the Jews.

 

But that's hardly a valid argument. They've just cruelly displaced the Palestinians from their homes with complete disregard for their welfare. Your ancient ancestors being displaced from somewhere does not give you the right to displace someone else.

 

Regardless, the Muslims can fight all they want. The land is going to remain in the hands of the Hebrews.

 

How can you be so sure?

 

What I do not understand is that Palestine is freaking HUGE- several countries. Israel is nothing more than a little sliver of land. I would personally like to see the Arabs get over it but it just isn't going to happen. In almost every peace agreement, the Israelis hand over a little bit more of their land.

 

Um, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but it's incorrect.

 

Besides being one of the smallest (if not THE smallest) Middle eastern coutries, the country of Palestine no longer actually exists. In 1948, when the state of Israel was officially declared, the Arabs lost the war and the state of Palestine never actually came into being. The territory allotted to Palestine was taken over by Israel and Jordan.

 

In fact, Israel has reoccupied large parts of the territory it had ceded to the Palestinians in the West Bank during the Oslo peace process, and continues to build settlements on Palestinian land.

[Anna Perenna]

If the Yanks would just stay the hell out of it! The USA is hell bent on total world control.

 

Fixed. .........

[Phantom]

Actually, the Philistines were there first - the Jews came second - and they started 'scattering' in around 6 BC.

 

But obviously the Philistines, Canaanites, Hittites, etc., are no longer around to have any say in the matter, correct? The Mayans and Incans also occupied parts of South America at one time but the point is moot. Their extinction settles that dispute.

 

But that's hardly a valid argument. They've just cruelly displaced the Palestinians from their homes with complete disregard for their welfare. Your ancient ancestors being displaced from somewhere does not give you the right to displace someone else.

 

Like I said, I understand the lament of the Palestinians. The Roman expulsion happened 2,000 years ago, so like I also said, it isn't a strong argument.

 

How can you be so sure?

 

I'm psychic!

 

Seriously though, I am a staunch believer in Biblical prophecy. Laugh all you want but it hasn't been wrong, yet! Although the Jews are supposed to be persecuted at least one last time and lose occupation of Israel during the end times. Ugh. I hate sounding like a Bible Thumper but I just can't help myself!

 

Um, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but it's incorrect.

 

Fox News. The bastion of even-sided media!

 

Alright, but what about the handing over of parts of Jerusalem during the war of 1967? Whether it has been done or not, I do not know since the matter does not concern me, but it seems many peace pacts ask for Israel to give up more land.

 

Besides being one of the smallest (if not THE smallest) Middle eastern coutries, the country of Palestine no longer actually exists. In 1948, when the state of Israel was officially declared, the Arabs lost the war and the state of Palestine never actually came into being. The territory allotted to Palestine was taken over by Israel and Jordan.

 

Noted. I was waiting for someone to correct me on that but Palestine is so much easier to say. If we want to get technical, then we can say The Arab-dominated countries.

 

In fact, Israel has reoccupied large parts of the territory it had ceded to the Palestinians in the West Bank during the Oslo peace process, and continues to build settlements on Palestinian land.

 

Again, noted. However, though our lofty ideals may consider it wrong, the taking over of land has been done throughout the history of mankind. Not sure why everyone has to be such a sissy about it. Slavery, land-disputes, war, etc. Ugly things but just a part of life.

[Msixty]

i'm with the jews, and germany, but that's another matter.

 

isreal beat the shit out of everyone that tried to destroy them, so much so that the only method left is terrorists.

 

biblically, jews own it

 

'last man standing', isreal is on top (fuck politics)

 

'first one there', isreal was first, also, all monogod religions (enter christians and muslims) are from the jewish faith, the jews were the first monogod (single god) religion, and christ was a jew.

 

no matter what way you flip it isreal has rights to be there if not own the whole damn thing.

 

as for the 'democratic' argument over the nuke scientist, isreal is (for good reason) VERY protective of it's military and natonal security, that guy fucked up, his bad, i'd have shot him.

 

 

 

 

you all that say that palistine should be the sole owner of that land overlook one thing, isreal happens to be there, and is not leaving, they don't take shit, and know exactly what they are doing and why, that's something to be admired and feared, and we as the United States cannot say so much as a nation.

[Msixty]

Fox News. The bastion of even-sided media!

 

DAMN SKIPPY!

 

CNN VS. FOX, that would be a cool fight, carlos mencia can ring the little bell.

[Msixty]

This will not be solved untill WWIII is over, or the Gods return...

 

my bet is on the middle east (palistinian-identifying people and isreal or US and Iran) being the spark in the bonfire of WWIII, and isreal will definently come out (with the US, UK, Germany, and most allied or NATO nations) on top (france and canada will claim victory, but bets are on us saving there asses at the last second)

 

this is for a very simple reason, military advancement. germany has crazy power on the modern field of war, automated artillery guns that can drop 5 HE shells on one target in 3 seconds and be locked down and gone in 15 seconds, america has the obvious war 'toys' and we are experimenting with spaceflight to get marines into battle anywhere in the world in 10 min. or less flight time. the UK has several new APC's (armored personell carriers) and isreal cas corner shot, the TAR-21, and many US-inspired or simply US built weapons. oh, and germany has H&K (bring back the G3!!!) and we all have exeptonal training and organisation on the individual and corps level, not to mention WWIII will be a situation of natonal survival for every country involved, so we will be fighting tooth and nail.

 

this being thrown at poorly trained people (mostly kids or teens at this point due to the adults being killed in the iran/US and gaza strip wars) with a very weak command structure and Warsaw pact weapons. the only advantige of the 'middle east muslims' as a generic term, will be unpredictability, and a very strong conviction and feeling of 'holy reason' (i will not use jihad as that means 'great struggle' and not 'holy war') although this will be a big problem for NATO, it will be overcome due to limited military supplies in the middle east, not enough for a world war, 3 years would see nearly every city and combatant compleatly destroyed, supply lines will not be off limits due to 'nutral' countries as in vietnam, military commanders will be given or the power to do as needed and air power combined with boots on the ground will force the middle-east to abandon forward military operation and resort ti insurgent-like combat, this will be flattened (over time) due to the world war 'political crisis' creating an inability to stop needed military operations.

 

 

well, that's what i think will happen (if isreal can be talked out of using nukes in a strike)

 

 

 

shit, ok, LOTS of really obvious mistakes, but i can't edit now, i gtg, i'll fix the typos later.

[RoyalOrleans]

Fuck all that...

 

Man can have the rest of the earth, but that little armpit of land we call the Middle East belongs to the Almighty. The faiths of the world should live in relative peace and thrive, but it has been a source of contention since the dawn of time. Hence the flooding and plagues, because that is God's Earth.

 

Don't fuck with the fucking deity.

[Anna Perenna]

Is there any way to change the poll so that we can see who voted for which side?

[Konspiracy Ken]

well if Anna Penis wants to change the poll, I want to change it aswell

Put on Nuke both the fuckers and let God sort them out

[hugo]

Besides being one of the smallest (if not THE smallest) Middle eastern coutries, the country of Palestine no longer actually exists. In 1948, when the state of Israel was officially declared, the Arabs lost the war and the state of Palestine never actually came into being. The territory allotted to Palestine was taken over by Israel and Jordan.

 

 

Which leads to the question of why you never hear about Palestinian claims to parts of Jordan.

[Konspiracy Ken]

...maybe cause Jordans a piece of shit?

[hugo]

More likely because the Palestinians still remember Black September when the Jordanians kicked their ass.