gay marriage

[djwakka]

YAY isent that simple if u to blind to c that God made MAN AND WOMEN together and not man and man because they cant get a child of their own... its pretty simple the world just want what will make them happy.. but thats my opinion so if u dont like it its your problem its how i feel.

 

Religion is not a valid means of intervention as it is not a unanimous belief elected by the people that is clearly stated but completely disregarded in the original Bill of Rights.

 

Oh wait, but you're in Africa right? You don't have the same amendments and legal rights as we do. Do they even have freedom of religion?

 

Again; I'll do what you've done and ask you to produce an article' date=' from a credible source, that proves that you're born gay. Orientation is not hardwired into a person.[/quote']

I said "I think" before my paragraphs for a reason. There are no legitimate sources of evidence supporting that homosexuality is a born trait nor that it is a trait acquired throughout your lifetime. "I think" for the sake of me making a hypothesis. I asked others to provide for me a source because they seemed so certain that they actually knew the answer of when and where homosexuality came from. I don't ask people questions just to be an ass, despite what you may think.

[LPpinkfreak821]

if u can read.. South Africa. Let me tell u one thing. We are one of the better off places to be. Tv was banned till late 1980's because our goverment saw what it did to some of you f uped american. So was porn and all that shit. Till the ANC took over... then TV's came in porn was everywhere and guess what... Rape here went up with 400% YES 400% and people started getting gay.. AIDS started to spread like Cocaine. We now have one of the highest crime rate and THE highest AIDS rate in the WORLD..... (im white btw) anyway im still against gayness AND THATS MY OPINION. Like some of u ppl might know Cape Town is one of the Gay cities of the world... Ill tell u why i dont like gayness... Maths work GREAT in this kk... Man + Man = ....nothing...Women + Women = .... nothing BUT Man + Women = CHILD. YAY isent that simple if u to blind to c that God made MAN AND WOMEN together and not man and man because they cant get a child of their own... its pretty simple the world just want what will make them happy.. but thats my opinion so if u dont like it its your problem its how i feel.

 

 

Sorry to step in again, but I can't help it. F up American?... Why thank you! Anyway, I decided to respond for a reason.

1. There has always been rape whether or not there was TV

2. You make it seem like people became gay over night... how very childish. & it wasn't exaclty the TV that produced that. Because if you watch you'll notice that there really isn't that much gay television.

3. Aids spreads from sex. Explain how it is that gay men spread AIDS to females for them to spread to more men. Please explain that to me & I might just give you a cookie, my dear. & that can also be argued with rape. AIDS can be spread through consentual sex & rape. Not just gay sex. So dont accuse gay people for spreading something that could just as easily been spread by a straight man/woman while raping someone mk!?

4. You failed to give a real reason to disliking gays... good job on that. You blamed television & America for what goes on. You brought up rape, porn, & aids. Which barely have to do with being gay anyways. So next time trying give us a real reason to why you dislike gays & if you can't come up with one then please don't argue any longer.

 

& whether or not there was an Adam & Eve then yes there was incest. But honestly... what does that have to do with Gays? incest & being gay is completely different.

 

 

 

 

& you so called "hitler followers" I feel bad for your parents & anyone else who has to deal with you in your life.

[djwakka]

So you're skeptical about whether or not there's physical evidence of what sexual orientation you have?

 

Don't play the plead to ignorance card, just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

But if you want to continue on that arrogant point, then why don't you take some initiative and prove me wrong instead of asking me to give you an article. It is basic common sense that your orientation changes depending on what you as a person want. So let me reiterate this, there is no physical feature on any human that determines what their sexual preference is.

 

Again; I'll do what you've done and ask you to produce an article, from a credible source, that proves that you're born gay. Orientation is not hardwired into a person.

 

Nevermind my last post, found some. Hyper, there are two main opinions about where homosexuality comes from. (1) You're born gay. (2) Society/environment influences one to become gay.

 

From Dr. Dean Hamer, the "gay gene" researcher, and himself a gay man:

http://www.narth.com/docs/bornway.html

"Genes are hardware...the data of life's experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what's installed at the factory and what's added by the user."

 

"Various theories have proposed differing sources for sexual orientation...However, many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for most people at an early age through complex interactions of biological, psychological and social factors."

 

So touche Hyper, you proved me wrong. But I wasn't really wrong to begin with. Sexuality is said to come from birth, but can also altered during childhood upbringings prior to adolescence.

[TeaTime]

Yes, environment has a great deal to do with it. But that's true for any kid, straight or not. Basic Freudian psychology.

Girls who have very positive female role models might become gay because they come to see women as a source of whatever it is they are looking for in a partner rather than men. Same with boys. I'm pretty sure that's what happened to me.

With that said, I hope the issue of child trauma/abuse won't be brought up here. It's happened in other forums I've been to and it's a very cruel tactic.

[Hyper]

Nevermind my last post, found some. Hyper, there are two main opinions about where homosexuality comes from. (1) You're born gay. (2) Society/environment influences one to become gay.

 

From Dr. Dean Hamer, the "gay gene" researcher, and himself a gay man:

http://www.narth.com/docs/bornway.html

"Genes are hardware...the data of life's experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what's installed at the factory and what's added by the user."

 

"Various theories have proposed differing sources for sexual orientation...However, many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for most people at an early age through complex interactions of biological, psychological and social factors."

 

So touche Hyper, you proved me wrong. But I wasn't really wrong to begin with. Sexuality is said to come from birth, but can also altered during childhood upbringings prior to adolescence.

 

But saying sexuality is said to come from birth is redundant. Without birth, there can be no person. Without a person, there can be no sexuality. It's arbitrary. You've stated a mere fact, people are born, that's how they get their sexuality, by being born. They don't, however, have a specific sexuality, they merely have the option of choosing a sexuality.

 

Saying sexuality is from being born is just like saying living is from breathing.

Duh.

[TeaTime]

Hormones. Children develop their sex with a surge of hormones from the mother, correct? Some babies get more testosterone then others. So if a girl is born with more testosterone than normal, and a boy is born with less, that's a concious decision they make?

You don't just wake up one morning and decide to be gay. Some of the factors are biological, just encouraged or supressed.

[FireHawk]

Okay I was thinking about this at work and...

 

i still think people being born gay is the stupidest thing ever i think ur enviroment effects your decision you make to pick your sexuality but I think you pick it in a way they you don't realise you pick it....i know its hard to follow but i think it makes more sense than...

 

"Oh my fucking god I feel gay I am now gay!" or "Oh my fucking god I was born gay so I am gay!"

[butterflygirl]

Here I go making people mad, but we are all entitled to our opinions right??!! I support Bush and oppose gay marriages. I think it's wrong, along with abortions too. So there I said it, yup just an old fashioned girl I guess. So who hates me now?!

[azemkamikaze03]

i suppourt bush dont suppourt abortions and "opose" gay marrage but i mean if they legalize it i wont be pissed i mean ohwell im friends with some gays...i just eh. dont feel like explaining myself lo

 

testosterone has nothing to do with being gay by the way

 

and yea its definately environmental and the way u cope with it

[mistress of yaoi]

One can oinly hope that one day we will have the same rights over here in australia.

[Brkng_Th_Hbt]

I think maybe you are born gay, or something similar. I think it might have to do with a chemical imbalance in your brain, making you think a certain way. I'm straight - I can't just say "I want to be attracted and turned on by men" and be that way. Same with gay people, they can't exactly decide to be straight. You can't learn to be "turned on" by a certain sex, even if you want to. Some people are gay and they don't want to be, and they want to be straight, but they can't, and they have to just accept it.

 

There seems to be way more people "turning gay" than gay people "turning straight". This may have to do with them being gay all along, but instead of coming out of the closet, they decide to say "I turned gay". But maybe it has to do with a chemcial imbalance or hormones or something. There's no way of telling, but I'm sorry - if you're straight, you can't just decide to get turned on by the same sex if you want. Well maybe you can, but I know that I don't have any control over my sexual preference! Lol.

 

I'm just trying to be logical here, and give my opinion. I'm not for gays, I'm not against gays. I just think that there are gay people, and there are straight people, and everyone needs to accept that.

 

But I am a little sick of gay pride rallies. Straight people don't go around holding up "Straight Pride" signs.

[Sygy]

Here I go making people mad' date=' but we are all entitled to our opinions right??!! I support Bush and oppose gay marriages. I think it's wrong, along with abortions too. So there I said it, yup just an old fashioned girl I guess. So who hates me now?![/quote']

 

i dont hate you, i pity you and you disguist me.

[LPpinkfreak821]

Here I go making people mad' date=' but we are all entitled to our opinions right??!! I support Bush and oppose gay marriages. I think it's wrong, along with abortions too. So there I said it, yup just an old fashioned girl I guess. So who hates me now?![/quote']

 

People dont or shouldn't hate you for you opinion. They may disagree, but that doesn't mean they hate you. I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I dont like Bush. That's cool if your support him, but I think he is a jackass & that is my opinion.

Abortion isn't right & if someone has unprotected sex or even if it was an accident then they should deal with consequences. I think they should only be able to have an abortion if it was rape & they have proof that it was rape. I dont care about age. If your old enough to have sex then you should be old enough to deal with consequences.

I think Bush needs to be slapped though. What does he have against Gay Marriage anyway? When he's giving a speech and someone asks him a questions about the war he doesn't give a straight answer, but someone says Gay Marriage and he's all "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah". WTF ever! If he wants to be an ass then let him be an ass.

I dont think anyone should judge other people by their opinions. So NO I dont hate you. Its what you believe in and that's that. Dont think people hate you all because they disagree with you, my dear.

 

I think there are MANY ways someone can become gay. Yea, it could be a chemical imbalance just as well as a personal prefrence. And that's a big problem. If they think someone was born gay then they think that something is wrong with that person. It can also be personal prefrence. I'm sorry to say that, but it's true.

Now, yes someone can think their straight, but be attracted to the same sex. That's denial. I'm not straight. I didn't say I was straight. I do prefer guys, but I am also attracted to certian women [& I know I might get bashed for that, but who cares. If you can't deal with it then grow up].

I used to be out with my sexuality, but I'm not anymore. Why? Because of gay bashers. The reason there are so many gay pride rallies is because gays are saying "We Aren't Scared Of You". It's just like black people [no offense] They have rallies to & they still blame us for what happened how many years ago!? We call them the N word or colored & thats harrassment, but they can call us cracker & whitey & thats not big deal. [And no, I'm not racist. Most of my friends are either black or mixed]

[And this is where I contradict myself]

Gay people make fun of straight people & it's no big deal, but straight people make fun of gay people & they can get arrested for harrassment. That's why I dont run around saying I'm bisexual. Thats rubbing it in and ridiculous! People who run around saying their gay are just asking for trouble and then they get offended.

America is screwed up... serioulsy. I dont think any group of people should be allowed to have any kind of big rallies. Straight people dont have a straight pride week, but gay people do. White people dont have a White pride day, but black people do. It all goes hand in hand. So yes, gay people having big rallies like that is stupid in a way, but their just trying to say that they aren't scared of what gay bashers say.

 

People can become gay by many ways. One being their enivorment, two being things that have happened in their life time, three being born gay, and four personal prefrence.

Someone who grows up around gay people often tend to take sides with gay people. Some of them even become attracted to the same sex because of gay relationships around them. It's a matter of opinion.

Also, someone can become gay from expirences. it can be something that happened with the oppisite sex that makes them want the same sex. Whether it was rape, abuse, or just plain 'disgusting' in their opinion. Their sexuality can be changed by them if they dont like something about the opposite sex & that's the truth.

Being born gay has been explained way too much in this thread so I'm not going to bother repeating it.

Personal prefrence. Someone can be straight just as much as they can be gay. It goes along right along with environment & life expirences. There is no law stating that you CAN'T change your mind. Therefore you have a right to want something and the right to not want something.

 

Their are many way someone can become gay. It's not just one way. Their are many theories toward this that aren't even worth explaining. One thing that I have noticed in this thread... no matter how much someone explains themselves no one else is going to change their opinion.

Believe what you want to believe and insert your opinion. No one is stopping you from that. They may agree or disagree. That doesnt' mean they hate you. Everyone has different beliefs & if someone can deal with that and retaliates then that is their own problem. Some people do need to grow up before they go and make themselves look like a complete idiot by saying something completely immature.

[FireHawk]

... oppose gay marriages. I think it's wrong' date=' along with abortions too....[/quote']

 

I agree with your opion

[Brkng_Th_Hbt]

This was posted by Lenneh, I guess he found it on some website:

 

"People aren't "turned" gay. While we are not yet sure about what causes sexual orientation — being lesbian, bisexual, gay, or straight — there is increasingly strong evidence pointing towards biological factors, that are in place before birth. But no one knows for sure.

 

We do know that whether people are straight, gay, or bisexual is usually established before puberty and before they begin having sex. And although sexual orientation probably begins to develop before birth, it may change over the course of a lifetime.

 

But whatever the cause or combination of causes, sexual orientation is not something that people can decide for themselves or for others."

 

 

I agree with that. (This is where I slightly change my opinion) I don't think people can't choose for themselves. I think it depends on a whole bunch of factors before birth and throughout your childhood. Environment, huge changes in your life, etc. But it could also be something as simple as a chemical imbalance. (maybe caused by drastic changes in early childhood).

 

My final verdict:

Sexual orientation depends on a lot of factors, and you can't choose.

[Hyper]

But I am a little sick of gay pride rallies. Straight people don't go around holding up "Straight Pride" signs.

 

True; straight people don't go around holding up Straight Pride signs, however, straight people are not being descriminated against.

 

It's like you never see a wealthy person begging for money. You never see them sleeping in a cardboard box. And you never see them holding "Will work for food." signs. That's because they don't *need* to.

 

Having "Straight Pride" is like having pride that you're human. Nobody cares.

[FireHawk]

But I am a little sick of gay pride rallies. Straight people don't go around holding up "Straight Pride" signs.

 

The one thing I a agree with you one there, but what also pisses me off is they wine and complain like crazy just like some African American (no racist on them I have african american friends) and then they sue the shit outta you or press charages..

[TeaTime]

i suppourt bush dont suppourt abortions and "opose" gay marrage but i mean if they legalize it i wont be pissed i mean ohwell im friends with some gays...i just eh. dont feel like explaining myself lo

 

sorry, but i can't understand why you'd be against your friends having the same rights as you. that makes no sense.

 

same with you, fireHawk.

[Stenners]

^^

 

Think of it that way people, some people are short sighted and most humans are selfish as long as they are fine and it don't effect them they dont care. If we took the right for Firehawk to marry anyone shorter then him cause of the sudden growth in unusual odd sized couples he would have something to say bout it.

[djwakka]

But saying sexuality is said to come from birth is redundant. Without birth, there can be no person. Without a person, there can be no sexuality. It's arbitrary. You've stated a mere fact, people are born, that's how they get their sexuality, by being born. They don't, however, have a specific sexuality, they merely have the option of choosing a sexuality.

 

Saying sexuality is from being born is just like saying living is from breathing.

Duh.

 

So how do you explain hair color, eye color, body type, etc? There is no explanation but birth. You can say heridity but we all know that that wouldn't occur if it was not for birth.

 

People have certain behaviors and mental states regardless of their upbringings. Gee, where could they have come from?

 

Gay people make fun of straight people & it's no big deal, but straight people make fun of gay people & they can get arrested for harrassment.

 

LOL, can you give me an example of a joke that discriminates against straight people? It's not that I don't believe you but I just haven't heard any gay people make fun of straight people for being straight, ever.

 

i can't understand why you'd be against your friends having the same rights as you. that makes no sense.

Yeah, people are real quick to say that they have personal experiences with gay people like "Yeah, my friends are gay, my Uncle too," the list goes on... They claim to know these people yet deny equal rights and priveleges for them.

[Brkng_Th_Hbt]

LOL, can you give me an example of a joke that discriminates against straight people? It's not that I don't believe you but I just haven't heard any gay people make fun of straight people for being straight, ever.

I'm with you, I've never heard gay people make fun of straight people.

 

But if a gay person were to make fun of somebody because they were straight (which doesn't sound likely), it wouldn't really matter. If someone straight makes fun a gay person, its discrimination! Now that, I don't get.

 

Meh, maybe I'm wrong.

[ShinodaBear]

I'm actually having to do a speech on this specific topic sometime next week. This is a huge help when it comes to what some people think. So thanks guys!

 

I'd like to get into the debate but I must read all the pages of this topic before I get into it.

[FireHawk]

i would like to point out 2 things:

 

1)@TeaTime: I'm sry you must have misread I said I have friends that are African American...but I didn't say I was against them I just said they complain about not having rights alot, and I think that is bullshit because they have more than anyone else in mankind.

 

2)@Stenners: LOL I am kinda short

[LinkinParkFanArtie]

This is such a controversial subject.. this is probably gonna cause problems soon XD. But I support gay marriage.. whatever makes you happy I guess x.x Im not gay.. so I wouldnt get gay married xP just supportin it.. hell im not gonna get straight married =P But it does seem like the gay couples last longer than most married straight couples.. probably because they can agree on like everything XD anyway.. laters *goes to bed*

[Hyper]

So how do you explain hair color, eye color, body type, etc? There is no explanation but birth. You can say heridity but we all know that that wouldn't occur if it was not for birth.

 

People have certain behaviors and mental states regardless of their upbringings. Gee, where could they have come from?

 

So you're asking me to explain phsyical traits? A failed attempt to prove a point. I suppose I need to reiterate my point. Sexual preference is a mental decision. Some people may be incapable of understanding that it's merely a choice, whether it be because they themselves cannot choose [which suggests they're either stubborn, or, they're jealous] or just because their religion says you should be straight, so being able to choose is out of the question.

 

Hair color and eye color obviously come from their parents. Your inclusion of body type throws off your argument yet again. Body type is yet another choice. If you want to be fat, you eat a lot, if you want to have a nice body, you eat right and excersize.

 

You're right, people do have certain mental states regardless of their upbringing, however, sexuality is not one of them. Those mental states are uncontrollable, i.e. schitzophrenia, depression, and bi-polar disorder. Those are problems that no person to date has been able to control.

 

Nice try with that one. How about a valid argument next time?