9/11 -- Was it real?

[acdcrules04]

 

As far as the bodies...go light yourself on fire with jet fuel, and tell me what's left. Also, google the word "cremation."

 

Why were they able to "identify" people then?

[UnhingedMouse0]

Actually, they found like 1 of 6 black boxes I believe. But as far as I know, they didnt reveal any of its data either.

 

About identifying the people, did they actually do it physically, person by person? or did they just have the list of casualties made up from the list of people who boarded?

[Vash_the_Stampede]

I believe it was 1 of 8 black boxes that had survived, when in all reality, they all should have.

[LSUTiger]

The only way they could of identified anybody that didn't disintegrate in the heat would have been by their teeth. My dad used to actually do just that. Anytime there was a really bad fire somewhere, he would be sent in to pronounce people dead and remove their teeth for identification. Sometimes, however, it's impossible to identify people, and family members acknowledgement pronounces them dead.

 

As far as wikka; I'm not really following your argument. But as far as the towers, dude, a needle in a haystack doesnt even begin to describe what finding two black boxes in that shit would be like. Also, look at how the excavated the wreckage. Huge equipment just started shoveling that shit outta there. Do you actually think somebody went through every piece of the 11 story tall rubble to find two boxes about 1 square foot? As far as the Pennsylvania, I was unaware of them not finding the black box. Regardless, the black box only records telemetry of the flight. It didn't hold any "secret" information that the government would need to hid anyways. All the black boxes would tell you is air speed, altitude, etc. Just pure telemetry data. A black box doesn't tell you the government did it, sorry.

[Fort_Underground]

Well i mean you can't expect something to survive no matter what. But still, more black boxes should have survived. Also (talking about the pentagon video) the government took all the tapes to that incident within minutes of the attack. If the government wasnt behind it why would they worry about that? And also, the hole the plane made was a net circle. If you watch the video i posted youll see theres almost no chance in hell a Boeing 757 would make something that neat and small. And some of the windows were still intact after the plane hit. Not to mention eyewitness reports that they saw a plane that appeared to be of military brand. And the supposed pilot of the plane that hit the pentagon was said to be "A very bad pilot. Clearly had no idea what he was doing." Im basically saying what the video says but my point is this. How the hell does a 80 ton plane not even leave a trace of its existance?

[LSUTiger]

Okay, go back 2 or 3 posts ago. I posted an in depth investigation of pictures, settings, reamins, etc. You can CLEARLY see Boeing 757 parts. Also, you are making a huge mistake! HUGE! You are assuming and hypothesizing. Stop! You have absolutely no experience in the fields of fluid mechanics, structural engineering, or hell, plane crashes in general. Saying what you "think" should of happened, and making decisions on your intuition not jiving with what you see in the pictures is a horrible mistake. Also, if you wanna go with witnesses, I've got a family member with his office directly across the street from the pentagon, and he told our family that it was most definitely a commercial airline plane that hit the building. Alas, the witness accounts don't really mean much because their are just as many people crying conspiracy as there are people crying legit. Forget witnesses and go with scientific facts. Go back to the very first post I made and watch the video of a 3-D modeleing of what the crash would have looked like.

[KillMeImIrish]

justin.. go home. you lose at life... you fucking nerd.

hahahah... yeah, i pretty much rock your face off.

 

oh, and yeah.. i know this is off topic...

go die.

[azemkamikaze03]

It's great to see a rebutal to the 1st conspiracy. It proves a good few facts about what could have happened to the plane. I didn't really read the link LSU provided becuase It would take a while, so instead I just skimmed through.

 

Both sides still have some things I question so I guess I'm back in the grey with this whole is it a conspiracy or not. I mean it's hard to judge with these kind of things.

LSU made some real good points with the wings strength and how it's possible that one could mistake a speeding plane for a missle.

 

Since I have no clue on how planes works or anything like that maybe some of these questions could be answered.

 

1) On the video that this thread was based upon they showed a truck fly off into water when it drove behind it. Now ieye witnesses say it, the plane, was really close then would numerous vehicles have been flipped over?

 

2) Apaprently a near buy hotel(?) filmed some footage of the plane, but the video was quickly confiscated. If this video was just a video of the plane crashing then wouldn't the CIA just release it instead of being so shady about it?

 

3) Now I'm no physics expert nor am I to well at geometry, but the video also points out that if a plane hit the light polls like it did, would they have been bent, uprooted, or even damaged? From the pictures I saw they looked neatly placed on the ground.

 

I know one could argue, how the hell would someone remove the light polls from there standing position so fast after the explosion but it's just a thought.

 

Then wouldn't the law have shown some destruction? From the looks of it, it was pretty neat. I mean if a plane came sipping through the front lawn I'd expect to see some kind of mess.

 

 

I don't know just some questions that I feel haven't been answered or that I just haven't seen/ heard answered.

[djwakka]

The black boxes record input voice data and radio transmissions. It would contain dialogues of the people who were pilotting the plane, and confirm whether they were terroists or not. It closes the argument that terroists were the ones responsible, so why wasnt the one box found on 9/11 released to the public?

 

Yeah Azem that pentagon thing is shady too... Gov officials have stated that the plane skidded on the lawn and rammed into the pentagon. If that were true, then the grass would have some kind of damage, no?

[azemkamikaze03]

I mean it's easy and some what logical to say that Terrorists did it. I did initially. It seemed as though terrorists had the perfect motive, but I mean when you really look deep into the whole story you realize that there is more to it.

[UnhingedMouse0]

Not to mention eyewitness reports that they saw a plane that appeared to be of military brand.

 

Well that would actually make sense...

 

Its the bloody Pentagon! You think they wouldent have alot of security, both ground and air, around that place? Even if people said that it flew over only seconds after the hit, how well do you think that their judgement of time would be after just seeing some gigantic thing smash into the side of a building?

 

Another place like that were they have TONS of security and protection is Washington DC and especially around the White House. I dont find it strange at all that there would be a military plane flying by only minutes after the attack. *shrug*

[LSUTiger]

justin.. go home. you lose at life... you fucking nerd.

hahahah... yeah, i pretty much rock your face off.

 

oh, and yeah.. i know this is off topic...

go die.

 

Go do your geometry homework and leave me alone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I loooooove you!

[Hahninator]

Take a look at

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_33;_ylt=Av6V1iWvd0aKDjgexMGtNk5qP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 

Pres Bush says they stopped an attack on the West Coast. bullshit. it seems all real, but the thing that got me deciding it was fake was when it says

 

"""""""""In his speech, at the National Guard Memorial Building, Bush said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the reputed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, began planning the West Coast operation in October 2001. One of Mohammed's key planners was a man known as Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is affiliated with al-Qaida.

 

"Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on Sept. 11, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed sought out young men from Southeast Asia — whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion," Bush said."""""""""

 

Khalid did not plan 9/11. The Government did. Arab hijackers weren't used on 9/11 either. Some of them are still alive. So that proves all this to be bullshit.

 

However, I did not know the US Government planned to attack the West Coast as well as the East Coast on September 11th O_____O

 

obviously the lack of letting the LA Governor means that Bush and his group probably made it up sometime recently.

[azemkamikaze03]

Take a look at

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_33;_ylt=Av6V1iWvd0aKDjgexMGtNk5qP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 

Pres Bush says they stopped an attack on the West Coast. bullshit. it seems all real, but the thing that got me deciding it was fake was when it says

 

"""""""""In his speech, at the National Guard Memorial Building, Bush said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the reputed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, began planning the West Coast operation in October 2001. One of Mohammed's key planners was a man known as Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is affiliated with al-Qaida.

 

"Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on Sept. 11, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed sought out young men from Southeast Asia — whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion," Bush said."""""""""

 

Khalid did not plan 9/11. The Government did. Arab hijackers weren't used on 9/11 either. Some of them are still alive. So that proves all this to be bullshit.

 

You said some. Where are the rest?

[LSUTiger]

Bock on topic now. All those light pole positions, lawn grooming, freaking barometric pressure differences arguments are just too baseless to get a grasp on from the confines of the internet. Also, trying to decipher what happened from behind your keyboard is also a rediculous task. Oh, and the black boxes only record radio transmissions if there are any. The terroists didn't exactly pop on the horn and "Tango Tango, Allah Akbar" if you know what I mean. A black box is going to tell you, once again, telemetry, and radio silence until the crash.

 

Having said that, it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for shits and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?

[LSUTiger]

Take a look at

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_33;_ylt=Av6V1iWvd0aKDjgexMGtNk5qP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 

Pres Bush says they stopped an attack on the West Coast. bullshit. it seems all real, but the thing that got me deciding it was fake was when it says

 

"""""""""In his speech, at the National Guard Memorial Building, Bush said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the reputed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, began planning the West Coast operation in October 2001. One of Mohammed's key planners was a man known as Hambali, the alleged operations chief of the terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is affiliated with al-Qaida.

 

"Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on Sept. 11, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed sought out young men from Southeast Asia — whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion," Bush said."""""""""

 

Khalid did not plan 9/11. The Government did. Arab hijackers weren't used on 9/11 either. Some of them are still alive. So that proves all this to be bullshit.

 

However, I did not know the US Government planned to attack the West Coast as well as the East Coast on September 11th O_____O

 

obviously the lack of letting the LA Governor means that Bush and his group probably made it up sometime recently.

 

You're an idiot. Oh, and tell Mohammed to blow my dick next time you bow to the east.

[Fort_Underground]

Well that would actually make sense...

 

Its the bloody Pentagon! You think they wouldent have alot of security, both ground and air, around that place? Even if people said that it flew over only seconds after the hit, how well do you think that their judgement of time would be after just seeing some gigantic thing smash into the side of a building?

 

Another place like that were they have TONS of security and protection is Washington DC and especially around the White House. I dont find it strange at all that there would be a military plane flying by only minutes after the attack. *shrug*

 

Unhinged it seems you took my post on of context. I said the plane that crashed into the pentagon appeard to be of miltary brand. Not that their were military planes flying around. I am only saying that to the peole who can see all of the flights. And they said that the plane appeared to be of military breed because of its speed and manuverability. Anyways, I was talking about one of the panes that crashed into the towers. Some eyewitnesses say that they saw a plane with a blue symbol on the front and no windows, which would indicate a freight plane. Anyway, I still think the government had something to do with 9/11. I mean, when the 2nd plane hit, there was an explosion on the building right before it hit. There was something extra on that plane. Boeing never said what it was due to measures of national security, but now why not release the information? Also on the attack of the pentagon, it seems no1 is taking into consideration a few things. LSU, I would like to know your take as to wheater a boeing 757 can leave small, neat holes when it goes through 3 levels of reinforced concrete. Also, why hasn't the FBI released any of the footage on the attack of the pentagon? The hotel video hasn't been released. The gas station video hasnt been released. The cameras from the highway were never released. Now you can claim it as a matter of national security, but why not now release them? I mean, America has taken over Afghanistan and Iraq, so why would you worry about it now. And what is the worst that can happen? We see that it wasn't a Boeing 757 that hit the pentagon?

[Clogz]

Having said that' date=' it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for shits and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?[/quote']

 

This pretty sums up what I think of these conspiracy theories. Right on, dude.

[azemkamikaze03]

Bock on topic now. All those light pole positions, lawn grooming, freaking barometric pressure differences arguments are just too baseless to get a grasp on from the confines of the internet. Also, trying to decipher what happened from behind your keyboard is also a rediculous task. Oh, and the black boxes only record radio transmissions if there are any. The terroists didn't exactly pop on the horn and "Tango Tango, Allah Akbar" if you know what I mean. A black box is going to tell you, once again, telemetry, and radio silence until the crash.

 

Having said that, it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for shits and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?

 

I see where you are coming from, but people do things for irrational reasons. I mean I can see no reason why Bush would want to do something as terrible as orchestrate what happened with the Twin Towers.

 

The only small reason I could think that iis that he wanted it to happen so that he could tie it into Iraq and then declare war.

 

But I mean I don't know, I'm just trying to see what other people have found and other peoples views and then form my own opinion.

[Fort_Underground]

Bock on topic now. All those light pole positions, lawn grooming, freaking barometric pressure differences arguments are just too baseless to get a grasp on from the confines of the internet. Also, trying to decipher what happened from behind your keyboard is also a rediculous task. Oh, and the black boxes only record radio transmissions if there are any. The terroists didn't exactly pop on the horn and "Tango Tango, Allah Akbar" if you know what I mean. A black box is going to tell you, once again, telemetry, and radio silence until the crash.

 

Having said that, it is entirely possible that the government is lying to us. They, for some ungodly reason, crashed some random plane into the pentagon for shits and giggles. However, it's just a stupid idea to wrap your mind around and worry about. The U.S. government doesn't stand to gain a single thing, monetarily, politically, or economically, from setting up such a fiasco. Honestly, you know, for a fact, what happened in New York; how can you think anything else was the driving force behind what happened at the Pentagon?

 

Well I would guess the reason would be that we would gain to easy public support to invade Afghanistan. And then why were are at it, lets take over Iraq and its oil fields. And hey, Iran is now looking like it might be a threat, so Im sure my country will investigae and find WMDs and then invade that country as well. And while were at it, why not take over North Korea? You see my point? From this my government as gained easy public support for the war. I however, think we had no buisness what so ever invadion Iraq. I mean every single country has the potenial to create Nuclear Warheads. Im sure my country has enough to blow up the entire world. So what are we going to do about nuclear warheads you say? Not a damn thing. If we look at everything the way we did in Iraq, we should invade all of Africa and some parts of Asia as well, since they all have the poential to create WMDs. Of course if we do that, we should ourselves dissemble all of our nuclear missles, since we have created them and can use them to create mass destruction. Of course, America never will. We want to be a superpower, and are almost succesful in doing that. To other countries, America is seen as war hungry, and always eager for a fight. I mean, we have been in at least one war conflict since 1920. Nearly 100 years weve been at war, and because of that weve amounted a 2 trillion dollar debt, which wont be solved by passing laws to give billions of dollars to the defense administration while were on the war path. Anyway, back on topic. LSU, how do we know 9/11 was the governments begging in to taking over middle eastern oil fields? Our contry could stand to make billions off of oil, since it dissapearing. Yet though, we import the majoity of our oil from Canada. But, they are our friends and allies, so no way we can attack and invade them, because then the UN would step in and kick our ass. But when it comes to the Middle East and those countries, they dont care. To me, it seems as though 9/11 was the first domino to fall in America taking over the oil fields.

 

P.S. Sorry for the rant

[LSUTiger]

But the thing about oil is we don't "need" to takeover middle east oil. We still have Alaskan oil fields, stockpiled oil to last half a century, we've stunted oil rigs in the Gulf and East Coast, we still have the ENTIRE West Coast UNTOUCHED!!! Also, Hydrogen, Fuels Cells, Nuclear Energy; there's so much more in the future, energy-wise, that the dire need for oil isn't going to be around that much longer.

 

Plus, Bush only has 8 years to "take over the world" as some of you are suggesting. If Bush is so corrupt, and so bad, why has he not done anything you guys are suggesting in the 6 fucking years he's been president! We don't control Middle East oil, we haven't started any "domino" effect to take over shit. I mean, you know after 2008, a whole new set of rocks gets thrown into the Whitehouse, right? That means Bush has less than two years to invade Iran, North Korea, Syria.....Kansas, anywhere else you think he's gonna unleash this military coo? Come on, dude.

 

Is it that far of a stretch on your imagination to think that maybe the President of the United States has the best interest of this country at heart. That maybe, just maybe, he's invading countries and crushing the most powerful terrorist organization for YOUR safety. I mean honestly!

[Hahninator]

LSU dude, just look at the videos. The Pentagon is obvious. Why was there no wake turbulence or shaking of cars or anything when the plane was going 530MPH no less than 20ft off the ground?

 

How can the plane punch those neat holes in the wall through the concrete and steel? Add that to the other factors.

 

Then there's the WTCs. Buildings 1, 2, and 7 were evacuated for some time the week before and power was taken off. Security cameras were useless and many people had access inside the buildings. Funny how those are the 3 towers that collapsed huh? Then explain the videos where explosions are seen coming from the building before it fell. You know, the ones right when it started falling, and even when the planes hit. Then explain how the firefighters witnessed lots of explosions throughout the building, and how a fucking crash 72 floors up will blow out all the elevators, break windows on the 1st floor and rip the marble off the walls on the first floor.

 

But I'm not sure I believe what they're saying about Shanksville (specifically the cell phone calls). There's just not enough proof to render it fake. However, if we add up all of this information, including lots of evidence the WTC and Pentagon attacks were planned by us, then it seems like that crash was planned too.

 

Lastly, I'll find the link of the terrorists who are alive and well for you.

[Fort_Underground]

LSU you do make some good points, and yes Bush only has 2 years to do all im saying, but im not talking about just him. Im talking about over our history all that we have done. You say we have left the West Coast of the US untoached, and we will unitl its necesary. Because of the large population in California, there gonna have a hard time putting up huge oil drills sites. But in response to saying that our president may have the best intentions, I say you are a conservative. Our presidnet is a moron. He should never have been in offica in the first place, but thanks to our electorial college he gets voted in. You know that he called for a plan to have a moon base by 2010? and a Mars base by 2020? Have you noticed how much he stumbles and sturtters on his speeches? How he cant rember where the exit is after he gives a speech? But as you say why hasnt he done anything in the past 6 years? Well im not saying it was his whole idea in the first place. I mean hell, hes got plenty of friends in the Middle East, so I don't think that it was his idea. I am talking about our country in general. But then again, remember how we invaded Afghanistan very quickly. Which was fine because Osama was thought to have been there. But we will never find him. Then something happened. Osama Bin Laden = Saddam Hussein. So now we go send invetigators who say there are WMDs and so now we all go. But loy and behold, we don't find any existance of them at all. And now US Soliders are dieng every day because suicide bombers are killing them. Sure we took over the country, but we still havent won. We never will be able to control it. Noboady can unless you go and arrest every single person involved with the terroists. Also on a side note did you know that Afghanistan was the worlds leading producer in poppy plants? I dont need to tell you what that makes. Anyway LSU you realize we have used up half of the worlds oil? At that rate within 100 years we will run out, then synthetic oil will rule. So I will say this, I did go a little far in accussing our country of taking over all the oil. But I do mean we did take all of Iraqs. But to stay on topic, LSU you still avoid my question. If our government is protecting us why dont they let us see the tapes of the plane that hit the pentagon. Why wasnt their any wreakage what so all of a plane. How can their still be intact windows when a plane going 530 just hit the building? When you think about all of this, I don't see how you cant at least think that the government is hiding something from us. Unfortinatly for them people took notice of what happened and now they are wanting answers.

[djwakka]

Okay, I'm just going to keep it simple since i skimmed a long of useless wording in this thread.

 

Some sturdy facts without who did what, and who to blame. These are based on the laws of science and physics.

 

(1) An airplane cannot bring down an extremely fortified building alone, especially if the airplane did not hit at the base of building.

 

(2) Jet fuel, kerosene, cannot melt nor combust any titanium, therefore most aircraft parts cannot simply "disentegrate" (Pentagon)

 

(3) Hahninator is right. More than half of the "terroists" that allegedly hijacked and/or helped carry out the 9/11 attacks are healthy and alive.

 

(4) The government had an actual project of ramming airplanes into the Pentagon. (see 2nd edition, Loose Change)

 

(5) No Boeing 757 parts were found at the Pentagon site, which is the plane government officials claimed crashed into the building.

 

But i have some straight facts for LSU Tiger's side as well.

 

(1) Bush did not fly an airplane into the World Trade Center.

 

(2) Bush did not fly an airplane into the Pentagon.

 

(3) Bush did not fly and crash onto a field on 9/11.

[LSUTiger]

Okay, seriously, I cannot answer all 300 questions that get posted every 5 minutes. I try to answer as many as possible, but I'm going to skip some....it's not on purpose, I promise. Anyways, I read something about turbulent wake, and nobody feeling anything, so I'll start with that one.

 

Turbulence doesn't "spread" like you are thinking. There are only two kinds of turbulence. One is generated by the unsteady conditions of our world. This is unavoidable, and not something you are going to "feel" outside of an airplane anyways. The other kind is what the plane generates itself when it disturbs the air it flies through. This type of turbulence ONLY EXISTS IN THE PATH OF THE PLANE!!! I cannot stress that enough. Turbulence does not "spread" away from the plane, to you, a bystander on the ground. The only people that could of "felt" turbulence from the plan would have to of been DIRECTLY behind the plane! What you do "feel", however, when a large plane flys by at close range is the enourmous sound waves being generated by the turbine engines. Sound waves are essentially pressure waves. That's why water in a glass gets disturbed if you clap your hands near it. The point is, sound waves propagating from a plane flying at subsonic speeds isn't going to "shake cars" or rumble the earth like some of you are thinking. It's just going to be really, really loud.

 

Another question. The "neat" holes. This is just a rediculous question in itself. Who are you to know what a "neat" hole is? And just what do you mean by "neat" anyways. The cross section of the hole in the pentagon perfectly matches the effective cross section of a commercial airplane. As far as "neat" is concerned, it looked pretty destructive to me. I mean, shit, the crash went through like 2 full rings of the pentagon, and entered the third ring if I remember correctly. I don't know why you people tend to think the destruction was supposed to be so horizontal. Go shoot a bullet through ballistics gel. The destruction goes deep inside, it doesn't propagate out.

 

More questions that can be answered with pure logic:

 

An airplane cannot bring down a fortified building, correct. But thousands of degrees of heat can cause the infrastructure on certain floors to weaken, causing all subsequent floors above to crash down on the weak floor. Therefor starting a toppling effect all the way down. This is EXACTLY what happened. Discovery channel did a two hour show expalining exactly what cause the buildings to fall. It is well known, and even accepted by the uber-liberals who love this shit that the buildings fell on their own. The "explosion" before the fall was due to the pressure increase inside the floors right before they collapsed. That "pushed" all the flames out the side of the building really quickly.

 

Boeing 757 parts "were" found. Jet fuel can melt titanium, hell, your CAR ENGINE can melt titanium. I know this for a FACT. I've seen titanium valves springs melt on racecar engines that overheat. See: Top Fuel Dragsters.

 

Living Terrorists? I haven't heard of any. And if you throw some Al-Jazeera, or french website that says they are, I'm not going to believe it. You're buying into the hype by reading that shit.

 

Fucking hell.