Religion

[Fort_Underground]

Well I got into an interesting discussion about this on another forum, and I wanted your ideas about it. It's a topic that gets many different reactions for people. I'll start off. Right now I guess you could call me an aethiest. I'm no longer a Christian, as now I find that I just don't agree with that faith. I have a friend whos Buddhist, and I'm starting to look into that. There are also others, smaller ones, that I'm also looking in to. I don't want to rush this thing, because it's a decesion that can impact how you live for the rest of your life. A quote that I really like deals with this,

 

"Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one." -Richard Dawkins

 

Chat. Share. Discuss.

[twilightcrimson7]

There was already a topic like this, but I guess it's better if we leave that one behind.

*clears throat*

My opinion on this is ever-changing.

Technically, I'm supposed to be a Christian, but no one in my family has ever gone to church, so we did not practice that faith.

Christians have a bad history. A lot of it is corrupt

Religion is used as an excuse for many atrocities in the past (inquisitions, the crusades, conquistadors, etc.)

Though it's harmless if it's not misused, which is the case for many things.

One thing that bugs the hell out of me, is when people push their religion on you, or are obsessed with it. Like it's thier life. We're not in the middle ages, people. Humanism. Also, when churches/people/religious figures act like they're righteous and godlike. Or when they claim they've spoken with god, or if they try to ordain something in the name of god. Like, "God has spoken, he wants/does not want......" you get the idea.

I don't consider myself to have any religion. I don't call myself Atheistic, because that's still technically believing in something, God. I don't think there is one, but how could I, or anyone else know?

I guess if I am to be called something, it's agnostic. I don't have a set religion. Nor Nihilism either. you know "God is dead" like before, who knows? Plus you're investing the same amount of time bashing Chrisitanity as the Christians do worshipping.

Some aspects of religion are good, but I think dedicating myself, blindingly, to one religion is foolish. I mean, if you never question anything, what are you than mere sheep?? Always question things. Take pride in being human. Take pride in life.

Another thing, science vs. the bible.

If you want to beleive that an unprovable entity created this planet, and our existance, that's fine. I don't care. But if you automatically reject all that science has done, that's ignorance. You can learn about two opposing theories while still retaining a peacful belief. Scientists are not trying to kill your religion.

I prefer to just live by my own code and morals.

I personally think it's sad when kids are born into religions. I mean, shouldn't they be allowed to choose for themselves, their own faith? They shouldn't be led blindly down a one-way path. let them open their minds to everything, just as they will with foods, sports, tv shows, music, etc.

 

I still have a lot to learn about religions. Perhaps one day I will take theology. I mean, some guy had to explain to me what a "jesus" fish was. Yeah, my friend had a keychain of a jesus fish. She's religious, but an admirable religious. She still thinks and sets her own rules, while retaining a modest piety to her God. It's respectable. And she doesn't push it on other people. She gave up her favorite lunchroom food for Lent. She's going for weeks restraining herself for something she loves, that's admirable. But it's not something I'm ever going to be doing.

[Fort_Underground]

^ Well said twilight. That was the whole reason why i dumped Christianity, I'm not going to blindly put my faith and trust into a superior being that somehow created life.

 

Also heres something I found online. I think it adds a little humor to why I'm not a Christian anymore. Also, if your a devout Chritian, the link may offend you.

 

Note: I wasn't able to post the picture here, so I'll just give you the link:

http://blog.isecore.net/media/BibleWarningLabel_small.jpg

[Ravynlee]

This is interesting. Kudos for real discussion (every once in a while, at least)

 

I was raised in what you would call an anglican household. My mother believes in God, refers to Him every now and then, but it wasn't forced on us. My dad for the most part was an athiest I think, same as my current stepfather.

For a while as a kid we (my lil bro and I) were read religious bed-time stories, all that, but by and large we didn't get religion crammed down our throat. I grew up in a pretty shaky environment, and I was tainted by those around me. For instance, seeing my uncle as a respected member of society go to church on sunday then beat his wife the rest of the week and praise God almighty really screwed with my head - it really distanced me from that kind of 'blind' faith mindset - or faith for the sake of having it. The 'When in Rome' mentality...

 

As I got older I kind of went in search for some 'enlightenment' myself, I studied with the Jehovas Witnsesses for a while, and prior to that even rebelled totally into Satanism. Yes, I did. Neither extreme sat well with me, so I turned to Witchcraft in my early twenties. While that has given me by far more peace and understanding of the way of things, I still don't have a definitive sense of peace that I see people that I'd class as religious zealots (hardcore Catholics/muslims etc - and I don't mean to offend anyone by gross generalisations, just that they as a people have a kind of faith that the mainstream society cannot relate to on the whole). I don't know whether growing up without any real definitive and consistent religious parrallel has made me feel unsettled at least on a spiritual level, maybe if I had a clearcut notion of what that true faith was I'd have some clue now. But as I said I grew up in a family that saw God as a kind of neighbour. Speak well of Him, but don't practice what they preach. I know few really do. I don't know if I openly rebell from organised religion on sheer principal or just can't 'relate' to it. Either way, my faith has been sculpted by those around me. Yes, in part I have to agree with your statement.

 

-Rav

[twilightcrimson7]

*nods thoughtfully*

And that reminds me. the "omg" thing. Almost everyone uses it. Even if their Hindu, I've heard that phrase. I use it, and you know I do not have a religion. It's like you can't erase it from our vocabulary. I use "omg" "jesus christ" "good lord" almost on a regular basis, whithout really thinking about it. It's like a swear word, lol.

Another pet peeve is when people say "omg" and then some offended religious fanatic condemns them for using His name in vain. It's extremely offensife to me, that they find that offensive. I mean, it's not even God the person is reffering to. it's just a phrase

 

Oh and I don't think I could be a Christian if I wanted to. I love sinning too much. muahaha. But of course under my rules. I'm not this crazy person who can't control themselves. But you can't not sin. How could you ever enjoy life?

[djwakka]

I know a song that fits exactly how you feel. http://s52.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1O9V3GWESHKSG1W0F5OHEM68BJ

 

Well, the religion you want to lead your life is based on your state of mind and your overall morals. I was born into a Buddhist family and I'm very proud and thankful for that. The morals of this religion are strictly non-violent, are about overcoming struggles, and being tolerant. Being raised and taught by these ways, it makes me the man i am today.

 

Although Christianity may disagree with some Buddhist principles, Buddhism will tolerate and nod along to religions like Christianity, because they have a peaceful way of faith.

All in all, i probably would not choose to be Christian even if i was born into it. No offence to any devout Christians, Catholics, Protestants.

 

It's just that, i wonder to myself... Why are there no people of minority or color in the Bible? Why does He "spread love uneven." Why does pain inflict the innocent, and wealth obtained by the ones who don't deserve it when there is an omniscient character who made everything in His equal image? Society altered the religion, and those changes became the religion itself. For example, society uses Christianity as an excuse to diminish homosexuals. http://myspace.com/margaretcho (Pure volume: play Mullet Fantasia)

 

"They have no right to call themselves Christians. Because they have no Christianity to them. They have no kindness, no compassion, no charity. I want Jesus to come back and say, 'That's not what I meant!!!'"

[twilightcrimson7]

That's a nice song. I'm sure that's how some people feel.

 

"They have no right to call themselves Christians. Because they have no Christianity to them. They have no kindness, no compassion, no charity. I want Jesus to come back and say, 'That's not what I meant!!!'"

Yeah, that would be something, if that happened.

[Fort_Underground]

^ Also well said Wakka. It is very interesting when you look at the past of religions and what has shaped them. Of course theres also the idea that Jesus was black. It really wouldn't be the odd to me if he was. In fact, he probably was. And while I'm at it, from my obersvation, black people are more religious than white people. If you see a white service, it's like it's planned out. It barely runs overtime, and it touches all the points it needs to. If you see a black service, then it's completly different. The crowd is more into it, there aren't any scheduled end times, and the pray with more intensity. But this is just my observation.

[The Flashing Fish]

Personally, I am Christian. I do believe in the Bible, but not exactly organized religion. A lot of the establishments are corrupt and think you have to believe in their belief. I have found that they have a close mind to any outside views. I also feel that people get caught up on Genisis in the Bible, because it says that God created everything. Well, the Bible is meant to teach you a lesson, not to be used as a history book of the world. As far as it teaching morals, it does a good job, as long as you don't take everything literal and you adapt it to the modern world. If you take it literal, you'll be very close minded, and very confused over all the contradictions. When you take people's flaws and mix religion into it, it becomes corrupt, like politics. But if you take the core beliefs in a religion and live by them, I think you'll have the true meaning of the religion. The true way to live your life. Religion to me provides morals for our society and hope.

 

To sum it up for me:

 

Religion in general- A good thing. I believe there is a God. It provides morals for our society, and hope in bad situations.

 

Organized religion=Bad in most cases. Typically corrupt.

 

Bible= Good thing, as long as it's not taken literally and used as a history book. After all, it was written by humans, not by God, regardless of what anyone says.

[twilightcrimson7]

Okay, I can respect that ^^

It sounds like you have a good hold on religion, I respect and admire that.

[ShinodaBear]

i am not going to get into this myself for i dislike religious debates. but the mods and i are going to keep a close eye on this topic for it is very delicate. if it gets out of hand we're pulling the plug.

 

just a friendly reminder (you guys are already doing this)::

State your opinions. Respect other opinions. 'nuff said.

[twilightcrimson7]

Yes, I'm relieved there's no animosity yet. It's good for you to monitor this thread. It is touchy...

[djwakka]

I jus thought this was interesting.

 

The principles of...

 

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

 

satanism

[twilightcrimson7]

I jus thought this was interesting.

 

The principles of...

 

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

 

satanism

Lol. a lot of that makes sense. *shrug*

[acdcrules04]

I'm agnostic. But I'm not searching for a faith, I'm exactly what the word agnostic means: without knowlage. I was rasied Mormon, way to extreme for me. I'm not a fan of western religion, i.e. Christianity, if I was to ever search for faith it would be in an eastern religion, i.e. Hindu, Buddism. Christianity seems to me as a way to control people.

[twilightcrimson7]

Yes, without knowledge.

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.

One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something

tis me

[Reflectionist]

I'm Christian and proud of it.

 

As far as Jesus is concerned, there is no way that Jesus was a white guy with long hair and a beard. That's such an Americanized version of Him for younger kids, that it's just not even right. First off, Jews in that time period were certainly not white, more like a Middle Eastern sort of Color. And if they did have beards, I think most men had them, they wouldn't have had long hair like you'd think Jesus did.

 

Yes, there are Christians who are very corrupt, and think that the religion is better than anyone elses. And I realize that that turns a lot of people off to Christ. Can I just offer up some words on why I believe in Christianity? If you don't want to read them, that's fine, but I encourage you to read on.

 

First off, most religions are led by what are called 'Prophets,' even in their own religion. Muslims have Mohammad, the Buddhists have Buddha, etc. etc. Christians have Jesus, but here's the thing: while every other relgious leader has died, and you can go and point out where they died and where they were buried, Jesus rose from the dead, according to the Bible.

 

Now, even if you can't prove that, the mere fact that it states Jesus rose from the dead, but the prophets of the other religions didn't, is testamony to Jesus' Diety.

 

As far as the Bible not being colorful, or racially diverse... I think, it actually is, you just have to look for it. Maybe the color of people's skin just isn't important? Should it matter enough to be mentioned? Isn't what matters inside of their skin, not outside?

 

But, anyway, there are some instances of it. They aren't very explicit, so it's hard to pick them out. Jews and Gentiles were like Blacks and Whites back then. They barely had anything to do with each other. The Jews believed that the Gentiles were out to kill them, and stuff like that. And dont' forget about the Samaritans, whom Nobody wanted to deal with. Jesus met with and loved on all of these people, man.

 

So just because it doesn't say 'caucasians' "African Americans' 'Middle Easterners' or anything like that, doesn't mean they didn't exist. There are lots of scholars who belivee that the Samaritans were black, migrated or emmigrated up from Africa.

 

 

 

SCIENCE v. RELIGION.

 

Can you use Science to Prove that George Washington was the first President of the United States? no, that's just silly.

 

Can you use Science to prove or disprove that God created Everything? no, that's just silly.

 

Of course it can make sense that two particles collided in just the right way to start a huge nuclear reaction that created life as we know it now. But maybe God created those two particles. Can you argue for or against that?

 

I'm a little tired, I'm going to bed. See ya'll later.

 

If anyone has any more questions on Christianity, you can PM me, or IM me, or catch me on AIM or MSN whenever you want. I'll be glad to discuss it with you.

[Clogz]

I'm a Christian, and a solid believer in God and Jesus for many reasons. I could go the things I've learned from the Bible, how church has helped my life...but I won't. Instead, I will simply say this. God has worked in my life, he has performed miracles. In times of real need, I prayed to him and he delivered. Here is one of the greatest examples I have.

I used to ride the bus to school, and it was a Friday morning and I was getting ready. The bus always left at 7:50, no exceptions, but I had plenty of time and was cleaning up, because tonight was a big night. I had my first musical performance, and after that a date with two girls. So needless to say I was going to get there on time.

 

I didn't. My bus left at 7:43. The clincher: If I miss more then two school periods, I'm not allowed to perform in the musical.

 

I freaked out. I didn't know what to do. After I was done freaking out, I called my aunt to see if she could pick me up. She didn't awnser the phone and then I remembered that she was working and had left a good hour ago for work. Crap.

I called my mom and talked to her, even though she could not come and get me. She said she would call the school but that there was nothing she could do. Then I had a thought: I could ride my bike to school...it was six miles but I could do it. But then my tire was flat, and my dad had the pump in his car and he was at work too.

My mom called the school and explained what was going on. My time to get to school was closing in on thirty minutes now...and then I stopped, and realized I had not even asked God for help. So I prayed about it...and then I felt fine.

I kicked off my shoes and turned on the television, because he told me everything was going to be fine. Ten minutes later, the phone rang. It was my mom, saying the school had just gotten a ride for me and they were coming to get me. Turns out the musical director was out running errands and I was right on the way. She picked me up and got me to school. Not only that, but the principal excused my absence (which he could have given me 3 detentions for) and gave me permission to perform in the musical.

This is just one of many things that I've experienced first hand. So why do I believe in God? Because he is real...he is there...and he does care. All you have to do is ask and wait for his awnser. I believe in God because my experiences have proven he was real, and the church and the Bible have only affirmed that for me.

[Black_Angel]

Quite simply, I'm an atheist. Always have been, always will be. I just don't believe in anything. Especially the christian religion.. I mean, they're anti-gay and the one's that I've come across seem to frown upon non-believers (aka me). So yeah, my experience with christians ain't good.

[Fort_Underground]

I would like to stay I find it interesting to those who have repsonded. I think you all have very unique ways of looking at it, and I respect that. I hope nobody starts to turn this into an insult fest, because I don't want this to get shut down due to someone being a moron. Anyway, to go on what has been said before, I'm aethist. The problem I have with Chrisianity is this:

 

1. Discriminates against gays

2. Everythign you do, is for a higher being, not for yourself

3. People have used God to start wars, or kill innocent people

4. Why doesn't god send another prophet to earth now? Why did he stop with Muhammad?

5. The devout Christians tend to shun other religions, and not have an open mind to other ones.

6. How did God come to exist?

7. Why can't god be a she?

 

These are a few, but some of the more important reasons why I'm no longer a Christian. Also, if anybody else would like to post about there religion or information on others, then go ahead. I'm trying to keep this thread as open as possible.

[ImTheOneThatFalls]

Uh, Personally I think I am either one of these three things. Athiest, Agnostic, or Satantist. I think I'm more Athiest than anything though because , word... "god" really made the earth and adam and eve... sure.. *rolls eyes*

[Black_Angel]

I would like to stay I find it interesting to those who have repsonded. I think you all have very unique ways of looking at it, and I respect that. I hope nobody starts to turn this into an insult fest, because I don't want this to get shut down due to someone being a moron. Anyway, to go on what has been said before, I'm aethist. The problem I have with Chrisianity is this:

 

1. Discriminates against gays

2. Everythign you do, is for a higher being, not for yourself

3. People have used God to start wars, or kill innocent people

4. Why doesn't god send another prophet to earth now? Why did he stop with Muhammad?

5. The devout Christians tend to shun other religions, and not have an open mind to other ones.

6. How did God come to exist?

7. Why can't god be a she?

 

These are a few, but some of the more important reasons why I'm no longer a Christian. Also, if anybody else would like to post about there religion or information on others, then go ahead. I'm trying to keep this thread as open as possible.

 

I thought Muhammed was Islamic o.0 But yeah, I agree with everything elso you said *reps you*

[Fort_Underground]

^ Muhammad was Islamic, but hes known as a propthet of God, or Allah in the Islamic faith. Jesus is seen as a prophet from god in the Islamic faith, but they believe Muhammad was a reincarntaion of God, not Jesus. In fact, the only reason the Islams didn't kill or wipe out the christians in the middle east is because they beileved in one god. That was the reason the Romans killed Jesus, because they were polytheistic, and then comes along this guy whos says theres only one god. If you want more info on this, just let me know.

 

Also, ImTheOnethatFalls, I to have trouble believing a superior "being" created life as we know it. I also have trouble thinking God had time go in a circle, but when he made life, he made it into a line. It's stuff like this that just makes it almost impossible for me to follow the Christian faith. That, and unquestionable faith in God and his teachings.

[Reflectionist]

Comments are in italics.

 

1. Discriminates against gays

Well, it's not 'discriminate,' for one. It's not like we have anti-gay rallies and go burn down houses of gay people. It's not that at all. We believe that homosexuality is a sin. Plain and simple. If God had inteded for men to be married to men, or women to be married with women, then everyone would be a male. It's natural, and that's the way we were created. I'm not saying that gay people are going to hell, because that's just shallow. All sinners are going to hell. Heck, if I didn't have Christ, i'd go to hell too. What do you think of that? It's not about being discriminate. It's just... hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

2. Everything you do, is for a higher being, not for yourself

That's very true. I see nothing wrong with that. But that's the point of the 'Higher Being' isn't it? I mean, doing things for God is (to me, at least) a lot more gratifying than, say, doing it for inanimate pieces of green paper, with pictures of dead humans on them.

 

3. People have used God to start wars, or kill innocent people

Okay, there are a lot of people who think this about Christians. But in all reality, not that there is anything wrong with this, but the Qu'ran says something about killing everyone who is not Muslim, does it not? Is it not just really radical extremist muslims going around bombing Christians all over the place? Also, God didn't say "I've come for peace" did He? No. As a matter of a fact, He specifically says: "You will hear of wars, and rumors of wars. Do not be alarmed. Such things must happen..."

 

4. Why doesn't god send another prophet to earth now? Why did he stop with Muhammad?

Okay, first of all, Jesus wasn't just 'some prophet' and if there had been a need for more prophets, he would've sent them. Muhammad wasn't sent by God. Sorry. I don't believe he was. There is no reason to think he was. All he's got is his own word, correct? Jesus, on the other hand, ended our sin problem (yes, we have a problem with sin, Ya know, Adam and the Apple, everyone's heard.... yeah) because when He died, all the sin in the WORLD, past... present... and future was placed on him, and died with Him. But Jesus, being God, just rose from the Dead three days later, and the Sin was still dead. Gone. Forever. I mean, we still have it individually, but it's like FedEx. If you've got a Box in your hand, and the Fed Ex guy or UPS guy shows up at your door with another box, you'd have to put the first one down to take the second one, right?

 

5. The devout Christians tend to shun other religions, and not have an open mind to other ones.

Okay, that's very true. Again, in the Bible it says "Jesus said, 'watch so that no one decieves you. Many will come in my name, claiming "I am the Christ," and will decieve many.'" And this is true. There was a guy about 8 or 9 years ago that was making a big deal saying he was God, but everything he said went against this Bible which was written over such a LONG period of time that no ONE person couldn't have written it all. If it weren't true, there'd be so many continuity errors and discrepancies that it'd just be obviously fake. And what, a billion or so people can't believe in something that's obviously wrong, can they?

 

6. How did God come to exist?

God is omnipotent, God is omniescent. Why is it our business to know How God exists? Our feeble human minds couldn't possibly comprehend this. The thing is, most people say that we're the most powerful beings ever, that we're the most intelligent. Well, of course we think that, we don't have anything else to go by. But it makes sense, that if there was something that was so much more intelligent, we wouldn't be able to comprehend it. A squirrel can not comprehend human emotions, human words, human body language, can it? So how exactly can Humans comprehend God?

 

7. Why can't god be a she?

You're right. Why not? There's nothing that says God is 'Male' or "Female" or that God even has a gender at all. When Jesus came to the earth, He came as a man. There's a basic reason for this: who would listen to a woman in those times? Nobody would. So it wouldn't make much sense then, would it? It's not like today's 'equal opportunity' crap that's around. NO ONE would've listened to him, and that's that.

 

Okay, I hope I explained it in a non-threatening way. There are some things that we do that I don't agree with. Like, you have to dress up to go to church. That's one of the most un-Christian things I've ever heard in my life. I mean, sure, you want to look good, but if it's to the point where you have to WORK at it, and you're going to be uncomfortable, it's not even worth going. You know?

[Reflectionist]

And, Fort Undergound, dude, I respect that about you.

 

At least you're not like one of those kids i've seen in other religion threads on other forums who just ask for the down low on religions so they can bash them. Ya know.

 

At least you're open with us. I think it's pretty hypocritical for someone to demand that Christians are open to them, but won't hear a word for Christ.