Religion

[djwakka]

When I was speaking of language, I noted it was unrelated because... it was. Duh. I don't need to impress anyone here so I have no idea why your pointing the finger at me; that tangent had nothing to do with a specific religion. You don't understand because your not open minded. If a post leads to another which happens to be off topic, what's so bad about that?

 

And no, I'm not against any religion. I am against however, the blind support of one. I'm against the people that believe in religion as it is given it to them, without question nor reason. I support Christianity for it's general positive morals and principles; not for the story it tells.

 

I couldn't care less if you laughed at my post, but I too am laughing at the fact that you believe in a religion because you're afraid to go to Hell.

 

Other religions this.... other religions that... well, guess what?

 

Other religions are wrong.

 

Other religions offer ZERO hope for anyone. At least Christianity offers a Guaranteed option of going to Heaven.

I don't think Jesus wanted you to be close-minded and ignorant, or did he? Yeah, yeah, other religions are wrong because they don't bribe you with the orgasmic place in the clouds called Heaven. Do I think my job is to convince you anyway?

My job is only to help spread the truth. you don't have to believe it. That's your own choice.

 

I'm a Christian, I know what I believe. You're....a conspiracy theorist and you just try to disprove what everyone believes, regardless of what proof, wether it be physical, spiritual, or emotional.

Maybe because you disregarded the proof that I did have. Again, it's better to ask why rather than blindly believe in the news, your priest, etc. You'd be perfect for the US draft. Don't ask, don't tell.

 

I wasn't comparing Hitler to anyone.

[Fort_Underground]

Wow. I don't check this thread in one day and I cuase an avalanche of posts. I'll post my entire rebutle to everything tommorrow, but for now, I'll cover the basics.

 

Ref man your getting way to emotional. I have never attack the Christian faith, just staed ideads about it. Your the one who's taking this out of porportion. And just to let you know, the guy who wrote the book, Bart Ehrman, attended Moody Bible College for 3 years. So hes not some myzogonist athesit. He was before all this a devout Christian. What changed him is that he discoverd the bible is not true. Yes, the bible is not the words of god. The original scrolls were never found. Neither were copies of the original, nor copies of copies of the original, in fact the bible wasn't started until centuries after God said what he said. Ehrman shows us from a historical standpoint, the Christian fiath is a faith based on books. And peoples interpretations of those books. The bible is very much a human book, and it is riddiled with contridictions, to quotse the book "there are more differences among our manusripts than there are words in the New Testament". So Ref, don't go blowing up because you think that I'm a devil and going to hell. And that I'm trying to let evil take over you. In my honest opinon, you seem to think well, but your fear of the unkown is what attracts you to Christianity. There are many reasons people turn to religion, for guidance, for answers, and in your case, peace. You like to know that you'll go somewhere nice after death, and don't have to worry. I think there is only an afterlife. But I have found to many faults in the religion to stay. So in a sense you can say I've "fallen" from the faith.

 

Also, stop attacking Wakka. Wakka has done nothing but give intelicual thoughts and you think of them as just lies and evil. Ref man, if you don't stop attacking people, I will ask a mod or admin to shut this down. I don't want this to get personall, and you shouldn't take it that way. Don't get defense, rather just share your ideas and leave it at that, don't go after someone.

 

Tommorrow I shall go more in depth about the book and about this thread, but until then, please no one attack anyone.

[KillMeImIrish]

I don't think Jesus wanted you to be close-minded and ignorant, or did he? Yeah, yeah, other religions are wrong because they don't bribe you with the orgasmic place in the clouds called Heaven. Do I think my job is to convince you anyway?

My job is only to help spread the truth. you don't have to believe it. That's your own choice.

 

yes (or is it no?). Jesus doesn't want us to be closed minded. but Jesus is all about some truth. and the truth is that those other religions are wrong. whether you want to believe it or not. you dont have to. but what's true is true. not "what's true or right for you might not be true or right for someone else." that's bull crap. someone might not THINK something is true, but does that change the trueness of it? if you see an apple... and you think "hey, that's not an apple. that's a bike." is it a bike? no. it's still an apple.

 

and orgasmic? hm. that's kind of offensive. but not because i realize the source it's coming from. heaven is, and will be, great. but it isn't a bribe. again, it's truth.

 

and we're spreading the truth, too. the only difference is, our's is actually true. but don't take my word for it.. apparently, i don't know much.

 

i think you might have skipped one of my posts from way back. christianity ISN'T fire insurance. you don't just get saved to get out of going to hell. that might be some "Christians" purpose, but don't think that's christianity. because it's not. like we've said.. there are fakes. and for you to assume we're ALL the same just isn't fair.

[djwakka]

yes (or is it no?). Jesus doesn't want us to be closed minded. but Jesus is all about some truth. and the truth is that those other religions are wrong. whether you want to believe it or not. you dont have to. but what's true is true. not "what's true or right for you might not be true or right for someone else." that's bull crap. someone might not THINK something is true, but does that change the trueness of it? if you see an apple... and you think "hey, that's not an apple. that's a bike." is it a bike? no. it's still an apple.

 

and orgasmic? hm. that's kind of offensive. but not because i realize the source it's coming from. heaven is, and will be, great. but it isn't a bribe. again, it's truth.

 

and we're spreading the truth, too. the only difference is, our's is actually true. but don't take my word for it.. apparently, i don't know much.

 

i think you might have skipped one of my posts from way back. christianity ISN'T fire insurance. you don't just get saved to get out of going to hell. that might be some "Christians" purpose, but don't think that's christianity. because it's not. like we've said.. there are fakes. and for you to assume we're ALL the same just isn't fair.

 

I don't judge people.

 

Apples have physical and more proof of their existance and were not dictated by people who believed that the dark spirits caused disease, and that the Earth was flat and the center of the universe. I don't think you can really compare religions to objects; it's not you but most of the analogies I've seen in this thread is just absurd.

 

Just one question though. Why is Christianity the right religion, and all the other religions are wrong?

[KillMeImIrish]

well i can't give you a real, logical reason (ahh! i must be a fake!) that you'll accept and be "ok" with. all i know, or trust, should i say, is that God is real. Christianity is real. how can all the other religions be real if Christianity is? i know, i know! all the other religions think their "god" and religion is real, too. so how can i say that JUST christianity is? i'll be honest. i don't know how i CAN say that, but i know that i DO say it. i believe it's real. you don't have to. you don't have to agree with me. but it's what i believe is true. so this post probably won't mean anything to you if you don't believe in what I do.

[djwakka]

well i can't give you a real' date=' logical reason (ahh! i must be a fake!) that you'll accept and be "ok" with. all i know, or trust, should i say, is that God is real. Christianity is real. how can all the other religions be real if Christianity is? i know, i know! all the other religions think their "god" and religion is real, too. so how can i say that JUST christianity is? i'll be honest. i don't know how i CAN say that, but i know that i DO say it. i believe it's real. you don't have to. you don't have to agree with me. but it's what i believe is true. so this post probably won't mean anything to you if you don't believe in what I do.[/quote']

 

Okay, that's cool. I'm Buddhist and I still have a lot to learn too and it's impossible to know a religion inside and out. It just kind of offends me and I'm sure it does others if people go on about how their religion is right. Scratch that. It's not the fact that they believe their religion is right, but the fact that they are so sure that other religions are wrong. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

 

I can make the best of my life, help others and the world even beyond from the principles of my religion, but hypothetically I'm believing in the wrong belief system therefore it was all insignificant? Regardless of all of the good deeds I've done in my life, I was no better off than a selfish sinner because I didn't believe in Christianity and I'm going to Hell? I could help the people of third world countries, feed all the hungry children, accomplish world peace, and find the cure for all diseases but still burn for eternity for being a non-believer.

[Fall_And_Faint]

Wow, Thats a lot of posts in just a few days, Im in all agreeance with Relflectionist (Cept some of rudeness) and KillMeImIrish

[djwakka]

Wow' date=' Thats a lot of posts in just a few days, Im in all agreeance with Relflectionist (Cept some of rudeness) and KillMeImIrish[/quote']

 

Now, all we need is an unbiased opinion.

[Reflectionist]

I don't judge people.

 

I don't think Jesus wanted you to be close-minded and ignorant' date=' or did he?[/quote']

 

Point taken. *rolls eyes*

 

Man, you really did just turn the tides on this debate. I think that was the first time I've heard you say I was close-minded and ignorant. I'm glad you haven't considered for a second that I might have actually studied your religion, and the other ones, and have repeatedly stated facts against them. And you want to know why Christianity is real? FINE.

 

Islam - States Jesus was a good prophet. Jesus told people he was the son of god. Meaning, he was a liar, because he couldn't have been just a good prophet and the son of god. Muslim - denies itself. Blatantly obvious.

 

Buddhism - Not even a religion. a cult. No god is invovled. Involves walking the 8 fold path to rid yourself of want. And if Wakka is any light of the buddhist faith, then... i'd say you're doing a damn horrible job of it (how's it feel for someone who isn't a part of your religion to tell you how bad you suck at it?)

 

Mormonism - Ha. A cult. Claims to be a sect of Chrisitianity, but couldn't possibly be because the Christian Bible says that the BIBLE is the ONLY word of God.

 

By the way, I just got sidetracked, because that reminded me of something.

 

He was before all this a devout Christian. What changed him is that he discoverd the bible is not true. Yes, the bible is not the words of god. The original scrolls were never found. Neither were copies of the original, nor copies of copies of the original, in fact the bible wasn't started until centuries after God said what he said. Ehrman shows us from a historical standpoint, the Christian fiath is a faith based on books.

 

1. I was unaware that the dead sea scrolls were just figments of archaeologists imaginations.

2. I'm glad this is such an open minded debate that we feel free enough to talk about the Bible being fake like its a duh statement. That's polite. Let the Christians get yelled at for doing that though, that's certainly fair.

3. Yes, you're right. All books should be burned. They are obviously all false.

 

 

*cough* back to mormonism - Did you know, that Polygamy is no longer a part of their relgion because the Priests decided that God didn't like Polygamy?

 

Yeah, that's why the Christian's don't have a central form of government. I mean, the Catholics do, and they're Christians, but they're odd.... and just do things for the fun of it.

 

Ref man your getting way to emotional.

 

Get over it. Maybe if you wouldn't bad mouth your own creator, I wouldnt have to reprimand you, would i?

 

If you want to go ahead and get a mod to close the thread, that's your deal. It'd be obvious that it's because you got pwned.

 

WAIT - Before I close my post, let me make a prediction.

 

Underground is going to say that i'm a liar, and I'm emo., delusional, and obviously wrong. Wakka is going to tell me *sigh*again*sigh* that i'm close minded and arrogant, even though that's what they call 'projection' in the psychology field.

 

(yes, I study psychology too, so I know how you oddballs work)

 

Conspiracy theorists, I tell you.

 

it's just sour grapes.

 

you won't believe in what you're afraid of.

 

your fault.

 

not mine.

[Reflectionist]

Yeah. I'm rude too. Can't forget that.

 

I'm not rude, just a little frustrated that you guys always think you can trap me with words. but, really, you suck at it.

 

No matter what I say you won't see how hopeless your lives are.

 

Dang, the only reason I'm IN this debate is because I love the human race enough to give a crap where they go when they die.

 

If it was all about annoying and proving people wrong, and being mean, I wouldn't be in here, would I?

 

no.

[Fall_And_Faint]

Sorry if ya took it the wrong way, but ya can be a lil rude, but it is Neccesary, and your not as rude as some others in here

[djwakka]

I'm glad you haven't considered for a second that I might have actually studied your religion, and the other ones, and have repeatedly stated facts against them. And you want to know why Christianity is real? FINE. (insert biased rant of other religions here)

 

Okay, so in addition to your fear of fire, you believe in Christianity because you dislike other religions. On the contrary, my faith is from the love of my belief, not the hatred of others.

 

Buddhism - Not even a religion. a cult. No god is invovled. Involves walking the 8 fold path to rid yourself of want.

I see, so in order for a belief to be a religion, it needs some ultimate omniscient character that thought of creating the universe and did so in a week. But I can see where you're getting it from; I consider Buddhism more of a lifestyle than a religion and I'm not ready for the path nor anywhere near nirvana. I'm not ready for the monk visits, practices, but I am abundant in prayer, philosophies, morals, and principles. There's plenty of Christians who don't go to church every sunday, or confess to their sins whenever they commit them, but that doesn't write them off as non-religious.

 

And if Wakka is any light of the buddhist faith, then... i'd say you're doing a damn horrible job of it (how's it feel for someone who isn't a part of your religion to tell you how bad you suck at it?)

 

Hmm, that's interesting.

Do I live online life the same as my offline life? No.

 

 

WAIT - Before I close my post, let me make a prediction.

 

Underground is going to say that i'm a liar, and I'm emo., delusional, and obviously wrong. Wakka is going to tell me *sigh*again*sigh* that i'm close minded and arrogant, even though that's what they call 'projection' in the psychology field.

(yes, I study psychology too, so I know how you oddballs work)

Conspiracy theorists, I tell you.

it's just sour grapes.

you won't believe in what you're afraid of.

your fault.

not mine.

 

You make a lot of assumptions that you take as true. Yeah, I graduated AP Psych and that's not projection. Projection is unconscously assuming that other people have the same values as you like religion. If a projecting person whos Christian doesn't like other religions, they won't admit to it but rather believe that other religions don't like them. Let me make a prediction as well. You will aim an argument directly at me, and then stray away into topic like you did in most of your posts in this thread.

[KillMeImIrish]

Okay' date=' that's cool. I'm Buddhist and I still have a lot to learn too and it's impossible to know a religion inside and out. It just kind of offends me and I'm sure it does others if people go on about how their religion is right. Scratch that. It's not the fact that they believe their religion is right, but the fact that they are so sure that other religions are wrong. Do you get what I'm trying to say? [/b']

 

I can make the best of my life, help others and the world even beyond from the principles of my religion, but hypothetically I'm believing in the wrong belief system therefore it was all insignificant? Regardless of all of the good deeds I've done in my life, I was no better off than a selfish sinner because I didn't believe in Christianity and I'm going to Hell? I could help the people of third world countries, feed all the hungry children, accomplish world peace, and find the cure for all diseases but still burn for eternity for being a non-believer.

 

i can't tell you how glad i am that we agree on something.. finally. i definitely agree. i don't think someone can ever stop learning about their "religion" or ... faith. i don't want to come across as rude, in saying that EVERY other religion is wrong, and mine is the only right one. but it IS what I believe. just as everyone else believes the same about their religion. gah. im all argued out. it's great to finally come to the realization that we're neither one perfect and, duh, we believe different things. and that's totally ok.

 

 

goodie.

[Fort_Underground]

Ok, I haven't posted here in a while, but I've seen enough. I'm now formally asking a mod or admin to shut this thread down. Ref you contiusoly attack people. Now I have no problem with you challenging me on my ideas, but now you just take everything as a personall attack. And Ref, I never said all books should be burned, I'm just saying the bible aren't the original works of the aposles. But no, you think that I am the devil on earth and that I will insult you. When I have not. I wish we coudl go further, but if people are taking this personally and throwing false predictions about name calling, then this can't continue. Once again, I'm asking a mod or admin to shut this down. I'll start this again, but not for a while.

[KillMeImIrish]

Ok' date=' I haven't posted here in a while, but I've seen enough. I'm now formally asking a mod or admin to shut this thread down. Ref you contiusoly attack people. Now I have no problem with you challenging me on my ideas, but now you just take everything as a personall attack. And Ref, I never said all books should be burned, I'm just saying the bible aren't the original works of the aposles. But no, you think that I am the devil on earth and that I will insult you. When I have not. I wish we coudl go further, but if people are taking this personally and throwing false predictions about name calling, then this can't continue. Once again, I'm asking a mod or admin to shut this down. I'll start this again, but not for a while.[/quote']

 

 

it's been almost a week, if not more, since anything was "out of hand." no one's even paid it that much attention anymore. so i see no need to shut it down.

[djwakka]

Ok' date=' I haven't posted here in a while, but I've seen enough. I'm now formally asking a mod or admin to shut this thread down. Ref you contiusoly attack people. Now I have no problem with you challenging me on my ideas, but now you just take everything as a personall attack. And Ref, I never said all books should be burned, I'm just saying the bible aren't the original works of the aposles. But no, you think that I am the devil on earth and that I will insult you. When I have not. I wish we coudl go further, but if people are taking this personally and throwing false predictions about name calling, then this can't continue. Once again, I'm asking a mod or admin to shut this down. I'll start this again, but not for a while.[/quote']

 

That's interesting. Didn't you post the picture saying all this stuff about the Bible? Whether the words the warning sticker said on the Bible were true or not, it's mocking a religious piece of literature. It's okay to be skeptical of it, ask questions of why this and why not this, etc. but degrading it without actual intelligence isn't right. You were making fun of the Bible, not proving it wrong or proving your points right. Having said that, I don't understand why you're accusing other people of attacking you when you yourself, blatantly attacked a religion.

 

An admin removes your post because of an offensive picture, and now you ask the same team of moderators to close your thread?

[Reflectionist]

It's a religious debate. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

 

Capiche?

[Fort_Underground]

Allright, I will take back the statement about me not posting anything offensive, but in my defense, I wasn't trying to use that picture to attack Christianity, rather just posting a pic I found. So I will take that back.

 

Ok, and Ref, yes this is a debate, and I can take it, and if you wan't me to go more in depth, then here it is:

 

I've gotten through 3 chapters of Misquoting Jesus, and as I sad before, I am enojying it. Ehrman gives great historical proof of how original manuscripts of the aposyles got changed.

 

For instance, scribes in the 1st century weren't all that literate, in fact some of them could only wright their name. And that could be considered being literate. So with this in mind, is possible these scribes accidentaly changed texts because of their mistakes. It's also possible scribes could have intenitally changed it because they thought there was a mistake. And then the later scribed might change that mistake and add more. This would continue on till about the 4th century, when writing grew. But even then, for 3 centuries this kind of style was happening. For instance, one scrolls changed the word "maintin" with the word "bears", a later scroll discovered the change, and wrote this about the 2nd scribe: "Fool and Knave, do not change the original".

 

Also, from the begging, Christianity was a religion of the book, and in the begging, most of its followers were illerate. The ones that were would read to others, and make copies of the bible. But they may of interepreted things differently, and may have changed them. In fact, it's almost certian that changes have been made after the originals. It was a very east time for scribes to changed things the way they saw them.

 

Also, it was common of followers of the aposlyes sometimes wrote texts using the name pseudonoumsly, for instance a follower of Paul, may have written things and signed them with his name. You can tell this because of some of the texts found, they aren't anything like the writings of Paul. And this is just one example, there are plenty of others.

 

Now, I'm not trying to diss Christianity, I am just telling you what that book says. It is not by some atheisit either, the guy actually went to Mood Bible Institute for 3 years, then Princeton, and from there he learned that the bible could of very easily had mistakes. That is what has lead him to do this for over 30 years. And he does give great proof and though of mind in the book.

[Reflectionist]

Allright, I will take back the statement about me not posting anything offensive, but in my defense, I wasn't trying to use that picture to attack Christianity, rather just posting a pic I found. So I will take that back.

 

Ok, and Ref, yes this is a debate, and I can take it, and if you wan't me to go more in depth, then here it is:

 

I've gotten through 3 chapters of Misquoting Jesus, and as I sad before, I am enojying it. Ehrman gives great historical proof of how original manuscripts of the aposyles got changed.

 

For instance, scribes in the 1st century weren't all that literate, in fact some of them could only wright their name. And that could be considered being literate. So with this in mind, is possible these scribes accidentaly changed texts because of their mistakes. It's also possible scribes could have intenitally changed it because they thought there was a mistake. And then the later scribed might change that mistake and add more. This would continue on till about the 4th century, when writing grew. But even then, for 3 centuries this kind of style was happening. For instance, one scrolls changed the word "maintin" with the word "bears", a later scroll discovered the change, and wrote this about the 2nd scribe: "Fool and Knave, do not change the original".

 

Also, from the begging, Christianity was a religion of the book, and in the begging, most of its followers were illerate. The ones that were would read to others, and make copies of the bible. But they may of interepreted things differently, and may have changed them. In fact, it's almost certian that changes have been made after the originals. It was a very east time for scribes to changed things the way they saw them.

 

Also, it was common of followers of the aposlyes sometimes wrote texts using the name pseudonoumsly, for instance a follower of Paul, may have written things and signed them with his name. You can tell this because of some of the texts found, they aren't anything like the writings of Paul. And this is just one example, there are plenty of others.

 

Now, I'm not trying to diss Christianity, I am just telling you what that book says. It is not by some atheisit either, the guy actually went to Mood Bible Institute for 3 years, then Princeton, and from there he learned that the bible could of very easily had mistakes. That is what has lead him to do this for over 30 years. And he does give great proof and though of mind in the book.

 

First off, let me just say, so you don't get all offensive, that i'm not attacking you, just your beliefs.

 

And another thing, it's kind of odd, that you would place so much faith in a book called 'Misquoting Jesus.' Wouldn't that, i don't know, maybe imply that the book is all about... i don't know... misquoting Jesus?

 

ahem...

 

wow, I think you said the words "could have" and "Maybe" as in... maybe they were illiterate, or maybe they weren't. We have texts now, that have been dated back to within fifty years of when they were supposedly written. So apparently that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Christianity was a religion of the book,

 

Good, it means that someone can't just say "Hey, God endorses polygamy, lets do that!" Or, make up their own ethics.... make up their own rules that they have to follow or they go to hell. Christianity doesn't do that. If you accept Christ, nobody cares WHAT you do, you're going to heaven. the general idea is though, that God will change your heart and you won't want to sin or do other crap like that, ya kno?

 

The Christian religion hasn't changed either, bro. So, being 'of the book' is actually a credit to the religion. not against it.

 

Also, it was common of followers of the aposlyes sometimes wrote texts using the name pseudonoumsly, for instance a follower of Paul, may have written things and signed them with his name. You can tell this because of some of the texts found, they aren't anything like the writings of Paul. And this is just one example, there are plenty of others.

 

Yep. That's called the Apocrypha. The Olde Roman Catholic church knew that they weren't actually writings of Paul, so they didn't make it into the Bible. So, that'd probably be true, if the early church was a collective moron, and let books like that into the Bible.

 

Gnosticism, especially in it's earliest form, was known for trying to slander Christianity. People would write books, claiming that they were followers of Christ, but the morales they taught would sometimes directly contradict what Christ said while he was on earth.

 

Also, another point - Some of the Epistles that are said to be written by Paul, simply might not have been written by Paul at all, yeah. But, that could be because it was just such a long time ago, that we just don't know. They don't contradict God, so what does it matter who wrote them? They're written, aren't they?

 

 

 

Another thing, I wanted to add. My youth minister brought this up sunday....

 

If what the Bible says isn't true, and Jesus isn't Christ... and we can't get to heaven, what hope do we have? No other religion offers hope beyond this life. If this life is all there is, then why do we go to school? Why do we go to work? Why don't we just run around naked and smoke crack all the time, if none of this on this world matters?

 

just a simple question.

 

[and thank you for exercising a little maturity in the debate in that last post. I hope I can do better with that too, I've been cold and thoughtless and very not Christlike, and I'm sorry.]

[djwakka]

If what the Bible says isn't true, and Jesus isn't Christ... and we can't get to heaven, what hope do we have? No other religion offers hope beyond this life. If this life is all there is, then why do we go to school? Why do we go to work? Why don't we just run around naked and smoke crack all the time, if none of this on this world matters?

 

I know this may sound totally crazy, i know, but there just might be some other beliefs out there that have morals and principles that are applied to peoples' lifestyle. Your minister sounds as if he's asking people hey, if you're not Christian, why are you acting rational? But there's more to life than some reward you get when you die.

 

There are people that wish death on themselves so they can reach this heaven and get out of their miserable life on Earth. So then, the same thing can be said about Christians. Whatever, this life on earth is just a ride, wherever it takes me, i'll be in heaven in the end. Sure, this person has hope after death, but a hope that doesn't really help them be a better person.

 

Why would it matter in the world even without Christianity? Because you're living now. Even if Heaven does exist, you're making a difference now. You're not going to be making an impact to other people and the world when you're dead and in Heaven. But what's the point of doing good if there's no Heaven, right? There are many good-doers, donators, charities, funds and foundations and just people that impact the world in a positive manner that are not Christian, why don't you ask them. Maybe you should be in the audience when they receive their nobel peace prize, and say, What was the point of that? You're going to Hell anyway.

[Reflectionist]

I know this may sound totally crazy, i know, but there just might be some other beliefs out there that have morals and principles that are applied to peoples' lifestyle. Your minister sounds as if he's asking people hey, if you're not Christian, why are you acting rational? But there's more to life than some reward you get when you die.

 

Are you trying to bait me into talking about the alternative? I don't especailly want to. And heaven isn't just 'some reward,' words can't even describe what Heaven is like.... ya know? At least, from what the Bible says, but.... you don't believe in the Bible's accuracy, so that'd be like, well, explaining the color blue to a blind person.

 

There are people that wish death on themselves so they can reach this heaven and get out of their miserable life on Earth. So then, the same thing can be said about Christians. Whatever, this life on earth is just a ride, wherever it takes me, i'll be in heaven in the end. Sure, this person has hope after death, but a hope that doesn't really help them be a better person.

 

Tell that to the 224,437,959 people who are Christians. Or, actually, that's the count from 2004. I'm sure it's considerably more now... But whatever. You, one person, are right. You, alone, are the expert on morals. Trust me, those organizations have some basis in Christianity, or some other religon believing it's Christian, but they don't want to turn people off to Christ, so they just don't mention it.

 

I've been out just giving Cokes to people on the street corner, because Jesus Loves 'em. Did I tell them that? No. Just a 'have a nice day' and 'here's a coke.' I don't have to put Christ's name on display for everyone to see to exemplify Him, do I? No. It would turn people away, make them think I was glorifying myself for being a Christian.

 

 

Why would it matter in the world even without Christianity? Because you're living now. Even if Heaven does exist, you're making a difference now. You're not going to be making an impact to other people and the world when you're dead and in Heaven. But what's the point of doing good if there's no Heaven, right? There are many good-doers, donators, charities, funds and foundations and just people that impact the world in a positive manner that are not Christian, why don't you ask them. Maybe you should be in the audience when they receive their nobel peace prize, and say, What was the point of that? You're going to Hell anyway.

 

Yeah, I think I talked about this up there, sorry. lol

 

Well, in your words... what's the point, they're goin to Hell anway.

[djwakka]

Tell that to the 224,437,959 people who are Christians. Or, actually, that's the count from 2004. I'm sure it's considerably more now... But whatever. You, one person, are right. You, alone, are the expert on morals. Trust me, those organizations have some basis in Christianity, or some other religon believing it's Christian, but they don't want to turn people off to Christ, so they just don't mention it.

 

Except for the Christian Fund for Children, Christian Hospital for Cancer, Christian Aid, Christian Financial Planning, Christian Youth Hospital, Chrisitian yada yada, of course. But no other religion besides Christianity has put their label on a foundation. And most of these funds popular enough to have Christian before it's name, take approximately fourty percent of your donation and goes to the offices of and below the CEO. And the people who don't go to church on Sundays frequently are suggested by these organizations and the media to invest in "Christian-based" donation funds. I mean, if you people truly had faith in Christianity, these "Christian" fund-raisers would not exist.

 

 

I've been out just giving Cokes to people on the street corner, because Jesus Loves 'em. Did I tell them that? No. Just a 'have a nice day' and 'here's a coke.' I don't have to put Christ's name on display for everyone to see to exemplify Him, do I? No. It would turn people away, make them think I was glorifying myself for being a Christian.

I really hope for your well-being that this is a hypothetical.

 

Well, in your words... what's the point, they're goin to Hell anway.

 

Then think of about half the items you use daily. Burn them. Why would you use the tools of a sinner despite his or her achievements to society?

[Reflectionist]

Except for the Christian Fund for Children, Christian Hospital for Cancer, Christian Aid, Christian Financial Planning, Christian Youth Hospital, Chrisitian yada yada, of course. But no other religion besides Christianity has put their label on a foundation. And most of these funds popular enough to have Christian before it's name, take approximately fourty percent of your donation and goes to the offices of and below the CEO. And the people who don't go to church on Sundays frequently are suggested by these organizations and the media to invest in "Christian-based" donation funds. I mean, if you people truly had faith in Christianity, these "Christian" fund-raisers would not exist.

 

Uh... your last sentence made no sense whatsoever. Well, it would, if you were trying to make me believe that you have no knowledge of Christianity. You DO know that Christians (as in, not the televangelist hypocrits who just want money) are actually out to HELP people... in anyway possible.... including financially?

 

And, first off, Christianity doesn't have a CEO. Christianity isn't a company, it's a religion. I don't know if this is just wishful thinking on your part, but... it's just not true.

 

I really hope for your well-being that this is a hypothetical.

Why? Actually, it was my youth minister's mother, but seeing as how if i brought her up in conversation you would go off on some unrelated tangent. And I thought it was a good idea, and I can take the blame for it.

 

I don't see how it's a bad idea though. Are you just trying to frighten me by saying that? It's not working. It's really horrible when you say something like "I hope for your sake you...." anything, and then not back it up, with a "because then that would be...."

 

Then think of about half the items you use daily. Burn them. Why would you use the tools of a sinner despite his or her achievements to society?

 

What are you talking about? Actually, I think I get what you're saying.... I think I've said this phrase twice in this thread, but you don't seem to get it, so I'll say it again...

 

Hate the SIN. Not the SINNER.

 

So, the fact that someone is a sinner is irrelevant to how you should treat them. Please. I don't know how you came away with such a skewed vision of Christianity, but it's clearly nothing Biblical.

 

Granted, not everyone who says they're Christian actually is Christian. And, some Christians, even though they try hard to exemplify Christ through their actions, just can't. They want to get away from whatever is keeping them sinning, whatever that is, porn, pot, crack smokin friends....whatever. But it's hard to just drop whatever it is that you think you need to drop to not be influenced by it.

 

But at the same time, Christianity isn't a set of rules. Above all, Christianity should be a relationship. With God. With Christ. And Christians generally try to strive for that.

 

But hypocrits come in every form, bro, and to act like Christianity is flawed just because it has some is just shallow. Sure, it's got more fakes than any of the other religions, but also 70-80% of the world say their Christians. Compared to every other religion.

 

I'm sure that Buddhism has it's 10% of Hypocrits. Every religion does.

 

You know what I'm trying to say here? Like, without misquoting me, or jumping to the wrong conclusions?

[Fall_And_Faint]

May be weird to just pop up and say, but if you didn't notice

 

Reflectionist has all extremely good points and somehow you find the little things in his sentences and turn them inside out.

 

I honestly think that Relfectionist isn't perfect and even "IF" he is wrong which he probably isn't that he's really fighting for something he believes in so at least give him that much respect when you talk about him.

 

and no Im not just sucking up or crap like that Im just telling you what I've seen lately

[Reflectionist]

Reflectionist has all extremely good points and somehow you find the little things in his sentences and turn them inside out.

 

Well... thanks, but... I think it's very clever. It's been giving me a tough time with the debate. that's what ticked me off before.

 

But it's okay, I can deal wit it.

:-D