Religion

[Reflectionist]

Emotion is hard to convey in a forum.

[Clogz]

Emotion is hard to convey in a forum.

That has nothing to do with what you have posted, which is hardline, bias, narrow-minded opinions and rants. You don't have to make any excuses, just stop posting before you get this thread canned. Everyone is handling this in a mature, respectful way except for you. If you don't have enough patience to respect another viewpoint, stay away from this thread.

[Fall_And_Faint]

Theres actually parts in the Bible where Jesus threw harsh (Not Hatred or Curse) words at Phar'-i-sees, calling them snakes in front of everyone. This caused some diciples to leave him. He wasn't a natural jerk of course.

 

And no im not doing this for Reflectionist's sake, this dosent justify him at all, but I just wanted you to know so someone else didnt throw this in your face one day

[Jeezy]

If you dont believe in god dosent meen u should kill yourself,if you dont believe god still loves you. If people dont have god they use other thing/religions to fill up there life.

 

And to jezzys comment:

 

How the hell can this discusiton appear funny?

its just a discussion of opinions.

 

I was saying it the wrong way. I meant that it's not funny to tell somebody to kill himself just because he doesn't believe in God.

[Fort_Underground]

Wow. I don't check this thread in 2 days and so many have posted. I haven't gotten a chance to read everyones ideas, but I have read the majority. So first, let me deal with the posts. Refelcionist, I suggest you stop saying everyone is damned to hell if they don't believe in god. My appreciation goes out to all of you who didn't take Refelcionsit quotes personally and started bad mouthing him. If anyone does though, then I'll ask a mod to shut this down. Victim, I appreciate you being open and expressing your ideas. Same goes to all who have posted.

 

As for me, I do not belive in a Heaven or Hell. I do not believe in God. I believe that death is only in your head, and that we continue living after we "die". If we could ever explain what reality in whole is, then we may have an answer to all questions. But unitl then, I will continue believing this. I think that extremist who devou tthere entire life to a religion could do something else. As the quotes from the guy who twi likes, animals don't care about religion. And sure, there brains arent as developed, but they don't worry about going to heaven or hell or pergatory or limbo or whatever.

 

I didn't realize how far the list I made would go, but I'll try to answer as many things as I can. Clogz, I wasn't trying to stereotype Christians when talking about religous wars. Jehads are the same thing, so there. But religion is probalby to most important thing in humankinds history. More people have been killed for relgion than any other cause in history. The crusades were a great example of that, seeing how in the end they only really opened up better trade between Euope and the Middle East.

 

Also, if God does exist, then why doesn't he have everyone in the world believing in him? If he is a superior being, and created life, why doesn't he make believers out of all of us? I'm not strying to diss Christianity here, I'm just saying that's a reason why I don't bleieve in God. I'm also a supporter of the separation of God and Public schools. Again, not because I don't like Christians, but because there shouldn't be one relgion in the U.S., as are founders would say. That was like the British, with one religion, and so our founders said that there shouldn't be. I also think the words "Under God" should be taken out of the pledge. This shows that there is a one "dominant" religion, and our pledge doesn't mention Siddharha, Allah, Muhammad, etc.

 

Also, my views are seen as odd in my school. I cant blaim people, but I don't want their sympathy. On Friday, whenever someone said "God doesn't like that", I responded "I don't believe in God, so I don't care." The kids in my class were shocked that I didn't believe in God, and one kid said he'd pray for me. I don't wan't him to, because he's only wasting his time. I don't want peoples sympathy for not following a religion, I just wan't everyone to have an open mind. Since I'm probably gonna get a lot of flack for this, could you post your main problems with this tommorrow? I don't know if I'll be able to get back to you tonight.

[KillMeImIrish]

Also' date=' if God does exist, then why doesn't he have everyone in the world believing in him? If he is a superior being, and created life, why doesn't he make believers out of all of us?[/quote']

 

 

you're forgetting something- God created free choice. yeah, i know you said you didn't believe in Hell or Heaven, but let's just suppose you did. If we all believed, there would be no reason for hell. he gives us the choice to believe or reject. and there wouldn't be anyone for us believers to witness too if everyone believed. God wants all of us to believe, but he doesn't force us too. that's why i don't believe in forcing my opinion on others. God offers his word and Son, but He doesn't force either.

[Fall_And_Faint]

I agree with what you said but it still breaks my heart looking around at so many people that will be in so much torment when they die.

[acdcrules04]

Sure!

 

What's the point in living, if there's no God? It's all very insignificant then, isn't it?

 

Well I can think of a lot of things to live for other than god, love for example. God isn't everything, look for other things in life.

[djwakka]

I agree with what you said but it still breaks my heart looking around at so many people that will be in so much torment when they die.

 

Oh, please. Don't even try to be condescending.

 

 

Reflectionist didn't quite understand my point earlier. I just think it's unhealthy to be so narrow-minded in a religion. If you believe in God and do positive things in life...hey...whatever works. I'm all about folks doing positive things in this world. Sometimes faith is the only thing that keeps some people from totally spiraling into depression and self-destructive behavior and i respect that a lot. But if you're doing the wrong things and blame it on the Devil, get that bullshit outta here! That was YOU, not the Devil.

 

 

And to the people who just hate science So, because science doesn't have all the answers, we should disregard it completely? You guys need to take that Mr. Hahn in a lab coat stroking test-tubes stereotype out of your head. Science is all about acquiring more knowledge. To take the easy road and say that some infinite being just willed everything into existence is intellectually lazy and ignorant. (Like saying that we just can't understand it because we're just weak-minded humans) Religion defies logic and reasoning, and instead, relies on unchanging speculation made by people who thought disease was caused by evil spirits and that the Earth was the center of the universe. But I myself, would rather base my ideals on something dynamic and self-correcting rather than a ridged set of dogmas that refuse to acknowledge even the most obvious flaws.

 

I'm surprised only KillMeImIrish said that the Bible was a book to live by; a divine book of morals and metaphors you should apply to your life and do right. If you view the Bible as a book of metaphors designed to help you make moral decisions, that's all well and good. But if you think the Bible is a literal account for history, and the prophecies will happen as they were written, I'm sorry, but you need help. If so, shouldn't you be getting ready for the rapture?

 

Bible contradictions? There's too many to name. Adam and Eve was impossible, because if humanity stemmed from only 2 people, everyone would be so inbred by the seventh generation, they wouldn't know where to properly go to the bathroom, much less build and maintain civilizations. And if there was a second woman who could have prevented this incest from happening, where did she come from? The great flood was proven to be a geological impossibility, not to mention the physical impossibility of cramming every single animal and the food to feed them on a barge the size of a Carnival cruise ship. Like I said, take the book as examples giving morals to live by.

 

ACDC, in life (and especially on internet boards), I find that folks who don't understand things they don't want to question say things like it "don't make sense" and the things they want to be right, they say are obvious. When it comes to religion, unless you're talking to someone who's willing to question something they truly believe in, it's almost a waste of time, which is why this is my last post for this thread. No matter how valid my points are, I can guarantee you with some of these stubborn people, you're not going to get anywhere with it.

 

I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. No agnostic ever burned anyone at the stake or tortured a pagan, a heretic, or an unbeliever.

-Daniel J. Boorsitn

 

Sure maybe there is an afterlife and I'm just not going to partake in it. You don't know for sure, I don't know for sure.

But I took the red pill and I'm glad I did.

[Clogz]

Wow. I don't check this thread in 2 days and so many have posted. I haven't gotten a chance to read everyones ideas, but I have read the majority. So first, let me deal with the posts. Refelcionist, I suggest you stop saying everyone is damned to hell if they don't believe in god. My appreciation goes out to all of you who didn't take Refelcionsit quotes personally and started bad mouthing him. If anyone does though, then I'll ask a mod to shut this down. Victim, I appreciate you being open and expressing your ideas. Same goes to all who have posted.

 

As for me, I do not belive in a Heaven or Hell. I do not believe in God. I believe that death is only in your head, and that we continue living after we "die". If we could ever explain what reality in whole is, then we may have an answer to all questions. But unitl then, I will continue believing this. I think that extremist who devou tthere entire life to a religion could do something else. As the quotes from the guy who twi likes, animals don't care about religion. And sure, there brains arent as developed, but they don't worry about going to heaven or hell or pergatory or limbo or whatever.

 

I didn't realize how far the list I made would go, but I'll try to answer as many things as I can. Clogz, I wasn't trying to stereotype Christians when talking about religous wars. Jehads are the same thing, so there. But religion is probalby to most important thing in humankinds history. More people have been killed for relgion than any other cause in history. The crusades were a great example of that, seeing how in the end they only really opened up better trade between Euope and the Middle East.

 

Also, if God does exist, then why doesn't he have everyone in the world believing in him? If he is a superior being, and created life, why doesn't he make believers out of all of us? I'm not strying to diss Christianity here, I'm just saying that's a reason why I don't bleieve in God. I'm also a supporter of the separation of God and Public schools. Again, not because I don't like Christians, but because there shouldn't be one relgion in the U.S., as are founders would say. That was like the British, with one religion, and so our founders said that there shouldn't be. I also think the words "Under God" should be taken out of the pledge. This shows that there is a one "dominant" religion, and our pledge doesn't mention Siddharha, Allah, Muhammad, etc.

 

Also, my views are seen as odd in my school. I cant blaim people, but I don't want their sympathy. On Friday, whenever someone said "God doesn't like that", I responded "I don't believe in God, so I don't care." The kids in my class were shocked that I didn't believe in God, and one kid said he'd pray for me. I don't wan't him to, because he's only wasting his time. I don't want peoples sympathy for not following a religion, I just wan't everyone to have an open mind. Since I'm probably gonna get a lot of flack for this, could you post your main problems with this tommorrow? I don't know if I'll be able to get back to you tonight.

 

I would like to mention, in regards to the underlined, that the phrase "Under God" was added to the Declaration and all US Currency during the mid-20th century. The founding fathers actually had nothing to do with this, its a misconception. They did believe in freedom of religion, totally, and would probably be against this just the same as you are.

 

And your example of jihads is good, and some is forgiven. If you had mentioned it before, instead of strictly outlining the 'Christian' example, it would have been much easier to swallow. You have to be fair here, be critical of all or none.

 

One of the biggest pillars of Christianity is that God has given us a choice to believe in him. Why would God force everyone to believe in him like mindless robots? It seems so simple, but its not free. Its perfectly logical, because God loves us so much that he lets have our choice, despite what he thinks. I am a firm believer in this, and at my mostly republican, mostly white school, I have stood up with people who don't believe, because I think its necessary for people to come to God on thier own terms, not mine or anyone elses. I will guide people, offer advice, but I will not open the door to God for them, I believe they must do that themselves. You are only excersing the choice God has given you, and its something that should be respected.

 

It does hurt Christians, knowing that others have chosen not to believe and the fate they face when they die, but we are all capable of making our own choices. We made a choice to believe, and if someone else didn't then thats thier right - the right God himself has offered to you. Because of that, I respect everyone's choices...even if its different from mine.

[Fort_Underground]

Well said Clogz. I appreciate that you have an open mind ot other people, and I really respect that. Wakka, I agree with you about FallandFaint. Don't try condenscned or guilt people. You believe what you want to believe, that how it goes.

 

I do now have a little more respect for Chritianity, if it says God gave a choice to people wheter or not to belive in him. Yet though, on so many other terms, I just can't agree with. And to talk about the list I created, whenever I talked about doing everything for God, and not something else, this is what I ment. Not that you should devout your life to fame or money, rather for yourself. I believe that faith in oneself is something that everyone should have. Belief in you and what you want to believe should be shared by all.

 

Also, for those who discredit science, I think your just plain ignorant. Sceince has given us answers to many things, yet though because it can't explain everything, it's pointless. Corect me if I'm wrong but there are Christian Scientist. What they study or do I don't know, but they exist. Personally, I would be amazed if humans ever found out what reality in whole is. This I believe in full though, "You ideas are yours and yours alone. Your are you, you are your ideas, you are individual." - I just thought of that off of the top of my head.

 

w00t 200th post.

 

Edit: Can someone tell me how to post a picture on this site? I tried doing it online then from word, but it refused to show.

[burning monk]

I don't really know what the main "topic" about religion we're talking about. But, erm, if anyone has any questions or queries about Islam, then I will do my best to answer them.

 

 

That sounded weird..

[LPGotLinkinPark]

If God loved all humans and wanted them to believe in him, then why did he only bring monotheistic religion into the world at the time of Abraham?

 

Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same God, just other aspects differ from eachother. I don't know why God would send all of them to hell for having different beliefs when they all believe in him, love him, etc.

[Breakdown Conspiracy]

GotLinkinPark?']If God loved all humans and wanted them to believe in him, then why did he only bring monotheistic religion into the world at the time of Abraham?

 

Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same God, just other aspects differ from eachother. I don't know why God would send all of them to hell for having different beliefs when they all believe in him, love him, etc.

 

 

May i add a slight correction?

Jews even thought they are goods people they do not beleive that jesus has come yet. because if they do beleive hes has come then they are the one who crucified him. adn there would be alot of guilt. thats not say that jews cant become born again christians.

 

And with chirstians,

God wants us to be all one so we can strengthin and not have division so we can build up christs body (not phsycal) on the earth.

 

Islam and muslims,

they are desedance of ishmail (sounds like that but probly not spelt like that)

who is the son of abraham that he has wid a concubine (another slave/wife)

and islam says that they hould force the world to follow allah (there word for god.)

[Clogz]

Well said Clogz. I appreciate that you have an open mind ot other people, and I really respect that. Wakka, I agree with you about FallandFaint. Don't try condenscned or guilt people. You believe what you want to believe, that how it goes.

 

I do now have a little more respect for Chritianity, if it says God gave a choice to people wheter or not to belive in him. Yet though, on so many other terms, I just can't agree with. And to talk about the list I created, whenever I talked about doing everything for God, and not something else, this is what I ment. Not that you should devout your life to fame or money, rather for yourself. I believe that faith in oneself is something that everyone should have. Belief in you and what you want to believe should be shared by all.

 

Also, for those who discredit science, I think your just plain ignorant. Sceince has given us answers to many things, yet though because it can't explain everything, it's pointless. Corect me if I'm wrong but there are Christian Scientist. What they study or do I don't know, but they exist. Personally, I would be amazed if humans ever found out what reality in whole is. This I believe in full though, "You ideas are yours and yours alone. Your are you, you are your ideas, you are individual." - I just thought of that off of the top of my head.

 

w00t 200th post.

 

Edit: Can someone tell me how to post a picture on this site? I tried doing it online then from word, but it refused to show.

 

I don't personally have a problem with sciene. I don't agree with some of its ideas, sure. It goes against my beliefs. But that doesn't mean it is silly and pointless, and should be discarded. Science may be flawed, but what on this planet is not? Nothing is perfect, and that includes science.

Science can be right, science can be wrong. I don't quite mind when its wrong, because I know that there are questions that science can't awnser. I personally think science has helped show me how amazing and infinite God is, how he created everything so perfect, how he made all these systems and this planet and everything...but thats my spin.

[LP186]

is it so bad if we dont have faith???

are we doomed to eternity of hell if we dont have any beliefs???

[Reflectionist]

Unless you want to believe your spiritual energy just fizzles out into the surrounding area when you die... sure.

[Fall_And_Faint]

Yeah, Djwaka, no need to say something when you know nothing about me.

 

If your looking for something that God did or made its smart to start in his Word, The Bible

[burning monk]

Islam and muslims,

they are desedance of ishmail (sounds like that but probly not spelt like that)

who is the son of abraham that he has wid a concubine (another slave/wife)

and islam says that they hould force the world to follow allah (there word for god.)

 

You've got that all wrong mate. Islam does in no way, state that we should force the world to follow God. It says that all people should believe in one God and that he is omnipotent.But even those who do not believe, the Qur'an never says anything about forcing anyone to do anything..

[Breakdown Conspiracy]

well why are the shites etc.. bombing everyone?

[Fort_Underground]

^ Thats has to do with the Shiite and Sunni Muslims. Unless I have this backward, their faith is the same. It's the style of how they are ruled thats different. Shiite Muslims believe that a dynasty should rule a country, where as the Sunnis think there should be elected leaders. There is probably more to it than that, buts thats the basics of it.

 

And Reflectionist, I blieve in the afterlife. I don't believe that that there is a heaven and hell, rather just afterlife. Where everyone goes, Christians, Islams, Buddhisits, Aethiesths, etc. I think that after we "die" on this world and this reality, we continue to live on after we are "dead".

 

Fall and Faint, The Bible is not his word. It's a work of fiction. "God" didn't write that, rather its just a bunch of stories compiled into a book. And since there different stories, no1 can be sure how much of it is true. So hence, s/he didn't make it.

 

Also, why doesn't God work any miracles like he did in the bible? Why didn't he let someone set the slaves free in America? Why did he make America fight a pointless war that just lead to bloodshed? Why doesn't s/he do any of that now? Also, why is it that when people say the speak to God, there considered crazy, but when people speak to God, its praying?

 

Also, I saw a funny thing about the ten commandments, heres the dialogue:

 

Guy: Hey look, its Moses

Moses: God has given me 10 commandants for you to follow

Guy: Do any of them say anything about pushing your religion on other people?

Moses: Well, no

Guy: Thought so...

[Reflectionist]

God never said He was going to bring peace.

God never said He was going to bring happiness.

God never said life was going to be easy.

 

If the Bible is just a random work of fiction, written by people and compiled.... wouldn't it be really easy to find contradictions? It's not. I mean, sure, you can say that there are, and you could even point some out. But even then, it might be from different view points (i.e. When did Jesus enter Jerusalem, first day or second day?) or, context. ("Don't get Angry" as opposed to "in your Anger do not sin" or something like that)

 

Ya feelin' me?

[djwakka]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I just think it's unhealthy to be so narrow-minded in a religion. If you believe in God and do positive things in life...hey...whatever works. I'm all about folks doing positive things in this world. Sometimes faith is the only thing that keeps some people from totally spiraling into depression and self-destructive behavior and i respect that a lot. But if you're doing the wrong things and blame it on the Devil, get that bullshit outta here! That was YOU, not the Devil.

 

 

And to the people who just hate science So, because science doesn't have all the answers, we should disregard it completely? You guys need to take that Mr. Hahn in a lab coat stroking test-tubes stereotype out of your head. Science is all about acquiring more knowledge. To take the easy road and say that some infinite being just willed everything into existence is intellectually lazy and ignorant. (Like saying that we just can't understand it because we're just weak-minded humans) Religion defies logic and reasoning, and instead, relies on unchanging speculation made by people who thought disease was caused by evil spirits and that the Earth was the center of the universe. But I myself, would rather base my ideals on something dynamic and self-correcting rather than a ridged set of dogmas that refuse to acknowledge even the most obvious flaws.

 

I'm surprised only KillMeImIrish said that the Bible was a book to live by; a divine book of morals and metaphors you should apply to your life and do right. If you view the Bible as a book of metaphors designed to help you make moral decisions, that's all well and good. But if you think the Bible is a literal account for history, and the prophecies will happen as they were written, I'm sorry, but you need help. If so, shouldn't you be getting ready for the rapture?

 

Bible contradictions? There's too many to name. Adam and Eve was impossible, because if humanity stemmed from only 2 people, everyone would be so inbred by the seventh generation, they wouldn't know where to properly go to the bathroom, much less build and maintain civilizations. And if there was a second woman who could have prevented this incest from happening, where did she come from? The great flood was proven to be a geological impossibility, not to mention the physical impossibility of cramming every single animal and the food to feed them on a barge the size of a Carnival cruise ship. Like I said, take the book as examples giving morals to live by.

 

ACDC, in life (and especially on internet boards), I find that folks who don't understand things they don't want to question say things like it "don't make sense" and the things they want to be right, they say are obvious. When it comes to religion, unless you're talking to someone who's willing to question something they truly believe in, it's almost a waste of time, which is why this is my last post for this thread. No matter how valid my points are, I can guarantee you with some of these stubborn people, you're not going to get anywhere with it.

 

-Daniel J. Boorsitn

 

Sure maybe there is an afterlife and I'm just not going to partake in it. You don't know for sure, I don't know for sure.

But I took the red pill and I'm glad I did.

[Fort_Underground]

God never said He was going to bring peace.

God never said He was going to bring happiness.

God never said life was going to be easy.

 

If the Bible is just a random work of fiction, written by people and compiled.... wouldn't it be really easy to find contradictions? It's not. I mean, sure, you can say that there are, and you could even point some out. But even then, it might be from different view points (i.e. When did Jesus enter Jerusalem, first day or second day?) or, context. ("Don't get Angry" as opposed to "in your Anger do not sin" or something like that)

 

Ya feelin' me?

 

I feel where your coming from Refelcionoist, but I have to disagree with you. Just because its a bunch of stories doesn't mean their historicaly inaccurate. Yes, some of those stories are real and history can prove it, but other chapters are just stories. Like Moses parting the waves. I would say Noahs Arc, but scienists think they found a ship that could be it in a mountain range (not sure where). So yes, there is some truth in the bible, but it's not all truth.

[Reflectionist]

Well, just what we are able to actually test is true. Funny how everything that people say isn't true or is a lie, is just something that nobody can possibly prove or disprove. And besides, 'two of every animal' doesn't mean two of every animal we have today. It's been a looooooong time. Things change, animals evolve, yes. A fish won't evolve into anything other than a fish, but a smallmouth bass would evolve into a largemouth bass. You never know. That seems logical to me. No?

 

And maybe we are all imbred. So? We wouldn't just die if we were. We probably would be dead if we hadn't done each other. Right!? But like I said, creatures evolve. How is a white person and black person different from.... say, a polar bear in the polar region than a grizzly bear in the rain forest? That makes sense that they're still bears, but their skin is different because they've evolved into that.

 

There are people in Africa with claws on their feet. Does that mean they aren't human? No. Does that mean they'd have to be around in Noah's time? No.

 

I don't know what you mean by obvious flaws, but.... it may just be that science is flawed. I'm not saying that it's all flawed, a lot of it DOES make sense. But even the stuff that goes against religion is simply a *self proclaimed* theory. Not a Law.