Abortion [Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life]

[djwakka]

Overall, I'm against abortion but find it necessary at crucial times.

 

Eternia - Love

Flipsyde - Happy Birthday

[Hyper]

So I'm pretty much going to reiterate my views on this.

 

I am Pro-Life in most cases. However, in the cases of rape, incest, and health of the mother, I am Pro-Choice.

 

Let me address the Pro-Choice portion first, as I do not feel as strongly about it:

 

Rape:

If a woman is raped. It is not her fault, or responsibility to give birth to the child. She made no errors, she didn't suffer from lack of judgement, somebody forced sex upon her, why should she have to deal with a baby that she had no control over.

 

Now, you may argue that she should give the baby up for adoption. Consider this, that child is going to grow up. That child is going to know their real mother gave them up for adoption. It's like one of the top four subjects on shows like Maury and Montel. Setting aside the emotional effects that would surface from merely knowing your mother put you up for adoption, whether it be because she was irresponsible, or could not raise you properly, a person would have a hard time dealing with finding out how they were conceived. Not only do they know their mother did not love them enough to keep them, and that they were given away, but they'd end up finding out that their father wanted nothing to do with them, they were not created out of love, they weren't even created by choice. That's got to have a devastating effect on a person. So give the baby the right to live, and also the right to suffer from depression, and knowing they weren't loved by either biological parent? I don't think so.

 

Incest:

This is a bit more of a controversial subject. Ever wonder why it's illegal? It's not illegal just because having sex with your sister is sick. It is illegal because it creates abnormal mutations in the baby. 'Normal' children have to very different sets of genes from each parent. But children from the same parents have a lot of the same ones. So if two siblings were to reproduce, their offspring would possess too many similar genes, which would cause them to be deformed, mentally ill, or even physically handicapped.

 

Now, I know those traits are possible with every couple, but the possibility is increased with siblings. There is no saying what kind of things would happen to the baby, what kind of defects it could have. But the possibility of the baby really really having to suffer greatly outweighs that of a normal, healthy baby.

 

My decision: Abort.

 

Health of the Mother:

This is indisuptable. If the Mother is dying because of the baby, abort. The loss of one life just to give a baby a chance does not sit well with me. An eye for an eye, a life for a life, it's not right. The Mother deserves to live more than the baby.

 

 

 

Now every single other possibility of having a child I am Pro-Life.

 

Let me explain.

 

Say you're a teenager, the ripe age of sixteen, and you get pregnant. You weren't raped, you did it because you wanted to. Whether it be because you loved the person, or you thought it'd make them want to stay with you. You only get one choice when it comes to these things. You *CHOSE* to have sex, you do not get to choose to abort the baby. I'm sorry, but saying "Oh, I'm only a sixteen year old girl, and my boyfriend left me for some other girl who was hot and wasn't pregnant, I shouldn't have this baby." does not fucking cut it. You didn't say you were too young for sex, you sure as hell are not too young to raise that baby.

 

Sex is not a thing of pleasure. Today's society has implanted it into young minds that sex, drugs, and alcohol are the cool thing. They're not. Sex is for reproduction. It was for reproduction 'back in the day', and guess what, it still is. So if you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex. It's just that simple.

 

So say you're too poor to have a baby. Oh well. Deal with it, you too made the choice to have sex. You have options, people aren't just stiffed with no chance. Join the military. Work your ass off. You don't have to be poor and raise a child. Get off your ass and find work, find a [legal] way to get money. Pretend if this child grows up under a roof, with food on the table, you'll get the ultimate orgasm in your later years. Laugh all you want, but ultimately an orgasm is what led you to have this baby, so let it lead you to make this baby have an awesome life.

 

See, there really is no acceptable way to abort a baby if you've chosen to have sex. Babies are not a mistake, no, but the act of having sex when you cannot support a baby is a mistake.

 

If you've read all of this, congratulations, you've been granted immunity from arrogance, for now. If you think this post is too long, you shouldn't even be discussing this topic. There is no right or wrong, yes or no argument. There is no correct way to go about things, only logical guidelines.

 

kthx.

[azemkamikaze03]

Lets take this into accounts if you add the number of abortions due to incest and posible maternal or fetal health you still hardly scrape a surface of the majoirty of abortions do to just not being ready. Pregnancy do to incest/rape is infact so minimal its hard to take account for.

 

The Mother deserves to live more than the baby.

 

Eh. If this is the case and lets say she became pregnant by choice she basically agreed to bring this kid to life. To do what it takes to make sure it lives. So essentially death qualifies. I mean I'm not trying to make it sound like Oh she has to die, but chances are the mother has expirienced life to an extent versus the baby who has not.

 

As for:

 

Now, you may argue that she should give the baby up for adoption. Consider this, that child is going to grow up. That child is going to know their real mother gave them up for adoption. It's like one of the top four subjects on shows like Maury and Montel. Setting aside the emotional effects that would surface from merely knowing your mother put you up for adoption, whether it be because she was irresponsible, or could not raise you properly, a person would have a hard time dealing with finding out how they were conceived. Not only do they know their mother did not love them enough to keep them, and that they were given away, but they'd end up finding out that their father wanted nothing to do with them, they were not created out of love, they weren't even created by choice. That's got to have a devastating effect on a person. So give the baby the right to live, and also the right to suffer from depression, and knowing they weren't loved by either biological parent? I don't think so.

 

Alot of children are revealed that they're adopted at a crucial age. That is why kids get affected the way they do. They don't just grow up disturbed, that is why it is best to inform someone about this kind of thing when they are not in their teens. That is a mistake people do. When children need security most they are stripped of it. Hence personality issues ect. They wont suffer from depression, maybe a period of period of depression but nothing permanent. It provides a similar blow to one as does someone who looses a loved one. Obviously you have thoes who may take it worse than others, but I feel as though if you let them know from a young age before they hit 11 they will adapt to this understanding that they are adopted. If you tell a teenager they are adopted no shit its gunna destroy them! i mean they have tons of pressure on them and this adds to it. So if they know from a while back this will be easier to cope with. Also if an you live with your adoptive parents since birth the effects are not as bad for the majority. They go threw a hard time(as does everyone) but they accept it and move on. There is no severe depression cycle that they are burdened with(usually) and I mean if you let them know at a good time they wont think they grew up living this lie.

 

 

 

 

Let's imagine first a case where you are in the position of the fetus. You are knocked out and kidnapped; your captor hides you on the plane of an innocent third party. She, the unfortunate pilot, doesn't discover you until you come to at 10,000 feet. Your presence has been forced on her without her knowledge or consent. She states plainly that you don't have any right to be there, and she wants you out. Do you have the obligation to jump out? Or to let her push you out? Or does she have the obligation to land in a safe place before she makes you leave?

 

In a more complex one, you are on a mountain, and I attack you and throw you into a place filled with rocks that will tumble down below if given a push. The only way you can leave that spot is by causing a landslide. On a perch below is someone else I also forced there. If there's a landslide, their perch will be destroyed and they'll fall to their death. There is no way for your calls for help to be heard; you have to wait until you are discovered missing and a rescue party is sent. Let's assume that you are in no danger; one of your hobbies is to be a survivalist; you know how to attract game birds. You are able to live off them until found, but that will take nine months. The other person is also able to survive because your efforts to attract birds will inevitably attract birds to their perch, too.

thought these where good analogies.

[LPpinkfreak821]

Hyper has an amazing statement. I completely agree with him on a VERY high level. It was very well thought out & explained. Everyone should read it.

[Victim]

With this question.. I think there is no right, or wrong answer.. because some one always have another statement that will make you second guess yourself.

 

Like alot of people have stated before, there are alot of things to take into consideration..

Its like learning how to spell in English class.. In there is always an exeption to every rule that you learn.. and you end up uncertain of youself....

Like, you think abortion is wrong, but is it wrong if I was raped? So you end up confused..

 

As of right now I stand by saying,I think murder is murder, no matter what the age..

 

but I wanna gather my thought a little more.. and I will post again.

[keza]

we had this debate in re...being a catholic school they were slightly biased, which is wrong, if youre going to put this argument forward to people the teacher at least should remain in-between (in my opinion)

 

they showed us a video of a baby (fully formed) being ripped out of its mother and the different instruments used in the procedure...the docotrs were THEN shown to throw the babies body into a bin where you could see a little hand covered in blood

 

naturally the class were all basically physically sick

 

as for the debate

 

i think niether of these opitions...i belive in prochoice

i think the mother should be given SERIOUS help in making her desicion but her desicion should none the less be hers, as all people have reasons for making the choices they do...

[Victim]

Here is a case that has to deal with abortion and a girl who was raped. She is mentally disabled 19 year-old. This is something new, if you look at the date at the top you will see that.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060728/wl_nm/argentina_abortion_dc

 

I personally think they should allow this woman to abort the baby. Firstly because she was raped. And secondly because she is mentally challanged. What do you guys think?

[diva__007]

i think im meant to talk about this in english class sometime this year..

im not againt abortion, i think people have there resons to have an abortion.

 

like think about it beside rape and stuff, say some chick get pregnet and she is like a drugo and all, and she is forced to have the baby, if she doesnt want it she most likely wont care for it.

[azemkamikaze03]

as all people have reasons for making the choices they do...

Not neccesarily good ones.

 

Now a mentally retarded mother giving birth...hmm okay maybe its slightly sick...but why kill the baby?...

[Chris]

When you where two months old chances are you wouldn't care if your mother was dieing or not. It's becuase the younger you are the less developed your brain/soul is. So just becuase a 2 week old embryo can't show emotion or thought does not mean it does not have it.

 

edit:

 

Now I am not trying to be gross, I am just saying. If you seriously want to "showy your love" and feel sex is the only way you can do it. But you don't want to have a child. Then there are are ways/positions you can have sex (eg anal and oral) I mean. Yeah, if you are really that desperate to show your love then I am sure this is a worthy substitute. I really doubt somethings as to which hole it is inserted in will matter.

 

ooooorrr.. you could wear a condom? Then you know for sure that there can be no baby. Yes, there's a chance that it could break but what are the odds?

 

I think that you can have sex in any way but do it safe. But if you get pregnant and you dont want it, i'll laugh in your face but I dont care what you do with it. Your own stupid fault.

[keza]

Not neccesarily good ones.

 

Now a mentally retarded mother giving birth...hmm okay maybe its slightly sick...but why kill the baby?...

 

yea true but then thats a chance...if yoove got a doctor with morals then im sure theyd refere the person to someone...usually people with mental difficulties are given a test to see if theyre capable of looking after a child...

but more often than not people usually have children for wrong reasons...thats when its badness...

yoo have these children having babies themselves to ghet a house...wtf 0.o

 

i dunno, personally i couldnt ever have an abortion (unless i was raped or something then circumstances might change obviously)

[azemkamikaze03]

ooooorrr.. you could wear a condom? Then you know for sure that there can be no baby. Yes, there's a chance that it could break but what are the odds?

 

I think that you can have sex in any way but do it safe. But if you get pregnant and you dont want it, i'll laugh in your face but I dont care what you do with it. Your own stupid fault.

I already said that some people dont liek wearing condoms so im sayin diffren hole

[FireHawk]

I already said that some people dont liek wearing condoms so im sayin diffren hole

lol that caught me off guard when I loaded page...

[acdcrules04]

The seman can get into the vagina though, honestly! And some/ most chicks and dudes aren't into 'anal'.

[FireHawk]

what about oral could try earal or something like that....i will now shut up....

[keza]

earal...rofl thats so funneh!

[Chris]

I already said that some people dont liek wearing condoms so im sayin diffren hole

lol. that sounds really funny :')

[Cyro]

lol. that sounds really funny :')

 

Its true... so true...

 

I don't mind condom's personally... ANYWAY!!

 

 

-----

 

 

I beleive abortion is wrong in certain situations.. if a girl gets herself knocked up on more than one occasion, and is using abortion as birth control, thats obviously a problem. I'm also against certain types of abortion..

 

There's this one type, where they stick a vacuum-type tool in the mother's womb late enough where the baby actually has visible hands, fingers, arms, so on... Well, while using this strong vacuum, the baby's body is forcefully ripped apart while being vacuumed out of the mother's womb... I've seen pictures, its really a gruesome thing. Unfortunatly, its one of the better ways of abortion to make sure no harm comes to the mother...

[acdcrules04]

Everytime I read this thread it reminds me of the South Park were Mrs. Garrison goes into to get an abortion. I would type what she said but I'm afraid that I might get a slap on the wrist from our local athorities. It had to do with scrambling the baby then queefing it out. XD

[Cyro]

Everytime I read this thread it reminds me of the South Park were Mrs. Garrison goes into to get an abortion. I would type what she said but I'm afraid that I might get a slap on the wrist from our local athorities. It had to do with scrambling the baby then queefing it out. XD

 

That puts a beautiful mental picture in my head... :O

[TeaTime]

All that needs to be said.

[FireHawk]

wow I am suprised this thread has lasted as long as it has

[wonderland]

I'm 100% pro-CHOICE. You don't want one, fine. Don't impose that on me. I'm a Libertarian. So I say, if you want it done or need to have it done, then do. It's you're right&/or privilege (however you want to look at it). As long as it doesn't interfere with my civil liberties & don't expect me to pay for you. The government needs to give us more choices not fewer. That's also why there's violence. Kids are violent b/c they're bored. And if the Republicans get what they want & get rid of Roe vs. Wade, there still will be abortions. Back alley abortions, which is far more dangerous. It's a breeding ground for bacteria. They don't have reason to steralized. You can't ban everything. For example, smoking is banned in bars b/c it's bad for your heath. Well, so is drinking. Is that the next step? to ban alcohol? Didn't work before. People will find a way to do it. Same with abortion. Women will find a way. Abortion is a woman's choice & it's very important it stay that way. Men must stay out of it b/c they don't have that 9 months of carrying that child & the bond is or isn't. And if you can't have or don't want that child, Mommy, then don't have it. I've seen too many orphans brought up instituationalized, anti-social. They can not involve themselves with other human beings. They've grown up without love. Don't ever do that to a human being. Don't bring a human into this world without love. That's far more tragic. If Bush & his religious adgenda push this through, there are going to be many unwanted children. There goes your crime rate. Sky rocket out the window. Compationate converatism my ass. It's infringing on our rights. Our decisions.

[LPpinkfreak821]

Oh my god. . . well I just kinda skimmed thru the more recent post and heres what I have to say. . .

 

-A condom is only 98% affective so you wont know for sure.

-Victims of rape should be allowed to get an abortion. . . that I agree with. But only if there is proof as in there was an arrest against the male who raped the female or there is a case name to it.

-Girls who get more then one abortion within a. . . 5 year period should just get their tubes tied. Seriously. Either fuck & take care of the consequences the right way or dont fuck at all.

-Yea it does fall under "your rights" but you dont have the right to murder.

-Anal. . .ew. Oral is a fine subsitute. . . [just that I add]

 

 

I wasnt able to listen to the recording that TeaTime posted yet, but I will as soon as I can get home.

[Clogz]

So if you're 19 and you're in college and you're studying for law-school or something and you get pregnant and she wants your advice and you say "ah, just live with it"

 

Thats the biggest Mickey Mouse bullshit ever.

 

So I guess im the only who really doesnt give a shit if a woman puts her child up for adoption or abortion. Its her body.

 

I would tell her to live with it because, if college was really so important to her, she would have been studying her pre-law - not having sex with some guy.

If she really cared about graduating from school, she wouldn't have taken the chance.