The Abortion Debate. A Cultural View VS A Personal View.

[woodyloveslinkin]

Well. To every good thing there comes consquences and responsibilites.

[HaziLPTonz]

i gotta say jeezy, i am 100% against that post of yours, we got to have a look at the state of the mother before we can say.."look,ur having the baby,but we can give it away later"

 

especially in cases of rape/incest, THAT baby in her womb is a CONSTANT reminder of the pain she went through, and she'll hafto go through with it until the 9th month to get rid of that painful reminder, 9 months jeezy, its easy for us guys to say this kinda thing, but could u imagine what the mother would be going through? shes been raped,instead of getting a chacne to move on with her life she hasto carry a child,which she didnt want to have in the first place, to a guy she didnt want to have it with, for the next 9 months, thats pure hell, being constantly reminded of what happened, of course tehres also natures own pain for mothers, morning sickness, back pain, theres also the fact someone hasto look after her because she wouldnt exactly be 100% mentally right would she, and giving birth is pain in itself, ask any mother

 

then we hafta look at that baby too, it was fathered illegally,illegimately, it was unwanted by its own mother, theres very little chacne the dad would want it, it goes through the pblic system, sure, there are great famillies that will take care of it, but it wont ever know the true love from its true parents, and then what happens one day*say it DID get into a beautifully happy foster home*, what happens when he/she finds out it was fathered during a rape, its mother having to go through hell to give birth to it then not wanting it, thats a new kind of hell, know matter what anyone says, when your own flesh and blood rejects you, it leaves a LARGE and attimes dark impression on the person

 

breakdown, its not as easy as just "using a condom" or "taking the pill", taking any form of drugs leave you with side effects(iv learnt that from only my first term of pharmacy) and i have friends who choose to avoid the pill for whatever reason-you gotta also realise also girls who go on the pill have the rents to deal with,even if, and condoms wont give you 100% protection, and its in the heat of the moment, people arent going to rationally stop mid way and realise..."holy shit, wheres the 20 condoms i was going slap on my wang before having sex", and you gotta remember, sex is a part of human nature, its not something you just get rid of, "oh yeah, jsut stop having sex"

[Breakdown Conspiracy]

Tonz;564495']

breakdown, its not as easy as just "using a condom" or "taking the pill", taking any form of drugs leave you with side effects(iv learnt that from only my first term of pharmacy) and i have friends who choose to avoid the pill for whatever reason-you gotta also realise also girls who go on the pill have the rents to deal with,even if, and condoms wont give you 100% protection, and its in the heat of the moment, people arent going to rationally stop mid way and realise..."holy shit, wheres the 20 condoms i was going slap on my wang before having sex", and you gotta remember, sex is a part of human nature, its not something you just get rid of, "oh yeah, jsut stop having sex"

 

Im not saying use a condom or go on the pill, and I know how stressfull and unacommidating it can be. And you say its human nature, yea i just pointed that out in my previous post.

 

Well. To every good thing there comes consquences and responsibilites.

 

For once i agree with a post of yours.

[Jeezy]

Tonz;564495']i gotta say jeezy, i am 100% against that post of yours, we got to have a look at the state of the mother before we can say.."look,ur having the baby,but we can give it away later"

 

especially in cases of rape/incest, THAT baby in her womb is a CONSTANT reminder of the pain she went through, and she'll hafto go through with it until the 9th month to get rid of that painful reminder, 9 months jeezy, its easy for us guys to say this kinda thing, but could u imagine what the mother would be going through? shes been raped,instead of getting a chacne to move on with her life she hasto carry a child,which she didnt want to have in the first place, to a guy she didnt want to have it with, for the next 9 months, thats pure hell, being constantly reminded of what happened, of course tehres also natures own pain for mothers, morning sickness, back pain, theres also the fact someone hasto look after her because she wouldnt exactly be 100% mentally right would she, and giving birth is pain in itself, ask any mother

 

I understand that.

 

But don't you think it's also a bad thing for a girl to go through the process of removing that unborn child after she was raped? I mean that's probably painfull too.

 

But ok...in case of rape it should be allowed that the mother stops the pregnancy if she want's to.

 

Tonz;564495']

breakdown, its not as easy as just "using a condom" or "taking the pill", taking any form of drugs leave you with side effects(iv learnt that from only my first term of pharmacy) and i have friends who choose to avoid the pill for whatever reason-you gotta also realise also girls who go on the pill have the rents to deal with,even if, and condoms wont give you 100% protection, and its in the heat of the moment, people arent going to rationally stop mid way and realise..."holy shit, wheres the 20 condoms i was going slap on my wang before having sex", and you gotta remember, sex is a part of human nature, its not something you just get rid of, "oh yeah, jsut stop having sex"

 

It's easy to use a condom and for girls there are other methods that won't have side effects like the pill...and yeah sex is a part of the human nature..but if you do it and you don't use protection than you should be able to live with the consequences.

[woodyloveslinkin]

Im not saying use a condom or go on the pill, and I know how stressfull and unacommidating it can be. And you say its human nature, yea i just pointed that out in my previous post.

 

 

 

For once i agree with a post of yours.

 

But as part of, you fall pregnant, you should always have the choice to abort it if you don't feel like you can't go through with it for personal/medical reasons, especially teenage pregnancies.

[Jeezy]

But as part of, you fall pregnant, you should always have the choice to abort it if you don't feel like you can't go through with it for personal/medical reasons, especially teenage pregnancies.

 

That should only be aloud if there's a serious risk that it wil kill you

[HaziLPTonz]

the aborton process is relatively pain free, and can be done basically straight away, even when mothers have miscarriages, its not painful(in a physical manner that is)(not trying to comapre the two), where as the mental pain coupled with child birth is a helluva lot to go through, iuts too much mental anguish, jeezy,put it this way, after a paticulary nasty incident, would you like to be constantly reminded of it for the next 9 months of your life? in a way the same can be said of pregnancies, people make errors, they try to move on, not be constantly reminded of them, and i know the baby doesnt really have a say in this....but like i spose...whichever side you take, or whichever argument you put to the table, its gonna go to hell

[GraDoN]

Well. To every good thing there comes consquences and responsibilites.

true that, and getting an abortion should not be a easy way out of it........ cause it murder. the way i see it, there is no difference between murdering a person and aborting a baby.

[allieking]

jerk or not tis true BC :>

 

 

couldn't have said it better!!!

[HaziLPTonz]

and to me gradon, theres no difference between torturing someone and making a woman who doesnt want the pregnancy make her carry it for 9mths and then making her give birth to it

[Jeezy]

Tonz;564754']and to me gradon' date=' theres no difference between torturing someone and making a woman who doesnt want the pregnancy make her carry it for 9mths and then making her give birth to it[/quote']

 

It always depends on why she doesn't want the pregnancy

[HaziLPTonz]

that is indeed true, and it stresses my point in my frist post, that we really need a flexible system, and not just one rule that purely says YES or NO, because while we have rules that tell us YES you can have an abortion or a plain NO you cannot, its always gonna raise debate and it only hurts those who cannot get the procedure or it further peeves off people when people are only having abortions because "they dont want to have a baby", but even then, everyone hasto realise that its still torturing for any woman who has had ANY unwanted pregnancy

 

my cousin was starting off ehr small business with her husband when she fell unexpectantly pregnant, now she cant just go closing her business or entrust it to anyone else only a few months into the business starting, her husband was more of the labor person and she was the brains, she had to make a choice between her baby and the business, she wasnt rich either, so it made her decision even harder,after delaying her decision, she ended up leaving the business to take care of the baby, while living with barely enough to feed the family, now i spsoe things are good that the business shes running now is ok and that her child can go to school adn everything, but it was really tough on them, you cant just force a mother to go one way or the other

 

i can understand the whole.."but this baby has a life", but remember, the baby has not expierienced anythin, it hasnt had its first breath, its probably not anywhere near into its development, and by no means is its life guaranteed when a mother decides to have the abortion, so to brand ANY woman a murderer,which is what gradon is essentially doing, is just plain wrong, what if it was a close family member of your own family like myself forced to go through that decision? what if it was your own wife?you cant force her to have the baby,you cant just take the moral high ground because you hafto look at everything, tings such as money play a big part, whats the point of bringing a baby into this world if you cant provide for it? give it away? but its YOUR child...

[woodyloveslinkin]

true that, and getting an abortion should not be a easy way out of it........ cause it murder. the way i see it, there is no difference between murdering a person and aborting a baby.

Even in the cases of incest and rape?

[Jeezy]

Even in the cases of incest

 

well...just because the parents are brother and sister the baby doesn't have the right to live?

I mean there are chances that the baby won't be healthy in cases of incest...but still those children have a right to live.

[woodyloveslinkin]

Yeah but what happens when that child grows older and finds out that they are the product of rape or incest? They would be mentally traumatised. Not only incest wrong its illegal. The courts let alone children welfare agencies, would not allow a incest pregnancy to go ahead (well here anyway I don't know where the Americans stand on incest laws).

In cases of rape, why would a woman want to go with a child that was the product of being voilated in the first place? The last thing a woman wants is a living replica of the man that voilated her.

[Jeezy]

Yeah but what happens when that child grows older and finds out that they are the product of rape or incest? They would be mentally traumatised. Not only incest wrong its illegal. The courts let alone children welfare agencies, would not allow a incest pregnancy to go ahead (well here anyway I don't know where the Americans stand on incest laws).

 

Yeah it's illegal.

 

But if it happens...there's still no need to kill the baby. I think they have to give it away after birth.

I heard of cases and they had to give the babies to other families. And also mostly the man had to go to jail.

[woodyloveslinkin]

What about just aborting the baby altogether for the mother's sake after having sex with her own father?

I am sure as eggs I wouldn't want to give birth to child, even if I still had the choice of putting it up for adoption after the birth, if the father was my own father. Even knowing that its father is my own, is enough to send chills down my spine.

God. Reminds me of an incest couple in Tasmania.

[Jeezy]

What about just aborting the baby altogether for the mother's sake after having sex with her own father?

I am sure as eggs I wouldn't want to give birth to child, even if I still had the choice of putting it up for adoption after the birth, if the father was my own father. Even knowing that its father is my own, is enough to send chills down my spine.

God. Reminds me of an incest couple in Tasmania.

 

But incest is not the same as rape....

 

and incest can also be between brother and sister....they don't do it against their will.

of course it's totally sick....but it happens

[HaziLPTonz]

jeezy,like i said,what if YOU were on the end of a rape and fell pregnant? what about if you had an incest father/brother but resented it deeply? if you were pregnant would you REALLY go and give birth to the baby if you had the choice? its just plain stupidity if you just say to someone in that situation..."go on,carry the baby for another 9 mths", there is so much trauma when people are raped, same with incest, you think making them carry a constant reminder for 9mths is going to help them? its not helpin the situation, its turning a blind eye to the mother and just plain stupidity if you do not at least consider the woman giving birth

 

also jeezy,what if YOU found out you were born out of rape/incest? would YOU be happy? you cant HONESTLY say you'd be "dandy" and "normal" if you were carrying a painful scar like that, your own flesh and blood gave you away(as you said), or if they did continue to raise you, YOU are just a constant reminder of one of the darkest moments in their lives

 

lets go abit further, what if your wife or gf or sister or even your daughter were raped and they fell pregnant,hmm jeezy? would you HONEST TO GOD, turn a blind eye away from their torment,their pain and say,"look,you're having the baby", are you THAT insensitive? are you THAT naiive that they would be fine after this ordeal? you wouldnt want to be raising SOMEONE ELSE's baby would you jeez? have an illegitamate brother if it was ur mum? have your daughter suffer?

 

am i hitting it too close to home? you hafto remember EVERY woman that is raped is either a mother,a daughter, a sister, an aunt...etc it hits VERY close to home

am i making my point?

[Jeezy]

Tonz;565164']

also jeezy,what if YOU found out you were born out of rape/incest? would YOU be happy? you cant HONESTLY say you'd be "dandy" and "normal" if you were carrying a painful scar like that, your own flesh and blood gave you away(as you said), or if they did continue to raise you, YOU are just a constant reminder of one of the darkest moments in their lives

 

I wouldn't be happy.

 

But I would still be alive...that's the important thing.

[HaziLPTonz]

honestly, thats just so silly, could you HONESTLY think that life is worth living if there was no happiness in it? do you think any drug, friend or loved one will really mask whats going on beneath? this is a pain that is deeper than any bullet wound, then any rejection, this is your OWN mother, your entire life, this isnt going to go away in 10 days or 10 years, this is with you for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, just because you THINK you might be alive, but living through a personal hell is worse than any death sentence you can put on someone

 

do you NOT think of the pain your mother would have gone through? of what became of her? sure you might be alive....but at what cost? and for how long? anyone can say they are alive, but are they really living if theres no happiness in their life?

[Jeezy]

Tonz;565168']honestly, thats just so silly, could you HONESTLY think that life is worth living if there was no happiness in it? do you think any drug, friend or loved one will really mask whats going on beneath? this is a pain that is deeper than any bullet wound, then any rejection, this is your OWN mother, your entire life, this isnt going to go away in 10 days or 10 years, this is with you for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, just because you THINK you might be alive, but living through a personal hell is worse than any death sentence you can put on someone

 

do you NOT think of the pain your mother would have gone through? of what became of her? sure you might be alive....but at what cost? and for how long? anyone can say they are alive, but are they really living if theres no happiness in their life?

 

why would there be no happiness?

 

Do you think that people are not able to get over it?

Honestly if I would be in that situation I would of course think about it....but I would be able to forget it. Because in the end nothing bad happened to me...I wouldn't have had this kind of traumathical experience.

[HaziLPTonz]

people CAN get over it, but do they?generally no, yes, there might be ur great 60 minute story about survival, but what of everyone else? if people are able to get over things so easily, why are there such arguments? "oh the child will get over it, its nly his fricken mother that got raped, shes till alive right?", or "oh gee, i was born an illegitmate child given away at birth because my mother couldnt bare the site of me because it reminded her of a tragic event, gee,ill just get over it", people dont get over things easily, no matter how trivial, its a BIG congratulations to you if you could, but we're not as "iron willed,ill live through this no matter what" as you, just becasue one person can make it rhrough a traumatic event doesnt mean the rest of us mere mortals can

 

and answer my above post, what if it was a family member caught with this decision? like a wife,gf,sister,mother? what would you do? could you REALLY look them between the eyes and tell them to go though with it even if they wanted to abort? are you THAT selfish?

 

because, hell, YOU didnt go through that traumatic expierence, you'd be able to forget it, you could move on

 

right Jeezy?

[Jeezy]

Tonz;565197']people CAN get over it, but do they?generally no, yes, there might be ur great 60 minute story about survival, but what of everyone else? if people are able to get over things so easily, why are there such arguments? "oh the child will get over it, its nly his fricken mother that got raped, shes till alive right?", or "oh gee, i was born an illegitmate child given away at birth because my mother couldnt bare the site of me because it reminded her of a tragic event, gee,ill just get over it", people dont get over things easily, no matter how trivial, its a BIG congratulations to you if you could, but we're not as "iron willed,ill live through this no matter what" as you, just becasue one person can make it rhrough a traumatic event doesnt mean the rest of us mere mortals can

 

and answer my above post, what if it was a family member caught with this decision? like a wife,gf,sister,mother? what would you do? could you REALLY look them between the eyes and tell them to go though with it even if they wanted to abort? are you THAT selfish?

 

because, hell, YOU didnt go through that traumatic expierence, you'd be able to forget it, you could move on

 

right Jeezy?

 

 

the thing is you don't kow my background and what stuff happened in my family....so I think I can judge the situation from another point of view.

 

But you might understand that I don't want to go into details with that.

 

And as I said if someone want's to abbort because of a rape/incest...it's totally cool with me

[Lyson]

wow...alot of opinions here but its a touchy subject in society.

 

personal view for me...I would get an abortion in a heart beat if I EVER fell pregnant. I Never want to kids so there would be no issue.

BUt i wouldn't be stupid or careless about getting pregnant as I have not yet and I dont plan to, and luckily for me my Bf doesn't want kids so if it ever happens he'll support me in getting rid of it.

 

or the baby...whatever.

 

I think its totally up to the mother anyway what she wants to do when pregnant because she has to carry the child to term and deal with the misery (or joy) that comes with being pregnant. I dont think girls should take advantage of the abortion clinics and treat it like a regular day clinic, but at any rate if they do their ultimatley fucking themselves up in the end.

 

Incest, the child should be aborted if the mother doesn't want it. Chances are the baby wont be right anyway and why let it suffer, and if it is right why let it find out one day its considered an abomination in society.

 

Rape...thats all up to the woman in the situation, some woman haven't regretted keeping babies born out of rape, some have.

 

These are all my opinions though...and in all honesty, why would anyone want to bring up a child in todays world, thats torture alone for the child lol.

 

But never the less, it should be a decision made based on how the mother/woman feels, at the end of the day its her gift or burden to bare, right?