Phantom Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Which army? The Shock and Awe campaign bombed the fuck out of the civilian quarters of Iraq to the tune of hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Bombed civilian quarters to the tune of hundreds of thousand deaths? Bullshit. I call bull shit on that one as well. Yes, the U.S. bombed the heck out of Iraq during Shock and Awe but hundreds of thousands of civilan targets and deaths? Not even the liberal Anti-Bush media has reported this to my knowledge. 1 Quote Blah.
Msixty Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Not just Australia. Roughly 70 % of Americans and most of the developed world know that I'm right.[/Quote] sometimes the 'majority' just means all the idiots are on the same side 1 Quote Your stupidity is My weapon WARNING! my mood and mental state are strongly influenced by music and T.V./movies..... i may seem the slightest bit insane.. just don't let me watch my favorite show and or listen to my music and it will all be alright.
RegisteredAndEducated Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 sometimes the 'majority' just means all the idiots are on the same side I call bull shit on that one as well. Yes, the U.S. bombed the heck out of Iraq during Shock and Awe but hundreds of thousands of civilan targets and deaths? Not even the liberal Anti-Bush media has reported this to my knowledge. Bombed civilian quarters to the tune of hundreds of thousand deaths? Bullshit. Democracy will take a hold. But you're not going to get it over night. You won't even get it in a decade. But it has to start somewhere. Shit everybody thinks you can change minds in the snap of your fingers. I think that this deserves Rep! Quote Intelligent people think... how ignorance must be bliss.... idiots have it so easy, it's not fair... to have to think... WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO BE AMONG THOSE FORTUNATE MASSES..... Hey, "Non-believers" I've just got one thing to say to ya... If you're right, then what difference does it make, it wont matter when we're dead anyway... But if I'm right... Well, hey... Ya better be right...
Msixty Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Which army? The Shock and Awe campaign bombed the fuck out of the civilian quarters of Iraq to the tune of hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. nope, we made 1 big miss-drop is the first air op. and it was because of bad iraqi intel. it hit just the right target though. Saddams army was already rolling the dice to see who got his robes after he was crucified. aaaaand bullshit! saddam was an insane dictator who believed that he was invincible, even as troops walked across his guard. did you know: the first person he killed had simply been to punish to a school teacher who had offended him, he was only a kid when he did it, he was raised by a nazi loyalest who gave him is mind set, he was a hitman at the age of 22, and he personally tourtured many of his victims. What "power vacuum"? Power Vacuum: The result of a dictatorship state being very suddenly and violently removed of the governing body, in effect creating a very high position to fill, hence, a vacuum Good ol' democracy creeping into the mix has provided the country with a democratically elected leadership, and everything is now hunky dory and apple pie. Isn't it? you are a fool, it will take many many years to fully instill a governing body with some power in Iraq, america took a long time to get support in it's first years too, it's the way things work, quit being impatient. 1 Quote Your stupidity is My weapon WARNING! my mood and mental state are strongly influenced by music and T.V./movies..... i may seem the slightest bit insane.. just don't let me watch my favorite show and or listen to my music and it will all be alright.
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Rather than respond individually, which seems pointless because I'm replying to a seemingly homogenous mindset, I'll just lay out some facts for you fox news advocates. http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html In the quotations collected below, the name of the leader who was assassinated is spelled variously as Qasim, Qassim and Kassem. But, however you spell his name, when he took power in a popularly-backed coup in 1958, he certainly got recognized in Washington. He carried out such anti-American and anti-corporatist policies as starting the process of nationalizing foreign oil companies in Iraq, withdrawing Iraq from the US-initiated right-wing Baghdad Pact (which included another military-run, US-puppet state, i.e., Pakistan) and decriminalizing the Iraqi Communist Party. Despite these actions, and more likely because of them, he was Iraq's most popular leader. He had to go! In 1959, there was a failed assassination attempt on Qasim. The failed assassin was none other than a young Saddam Hussein. In 1963, a CIA-organized coup did successfully assassinate Qasim and Saddam's Ba'ath Party came to power for the first time. Saddam returned from exile in Egypt and took up the key post as head of Iraq's secret service. The CIA then provided the new pliant, Iraqi regime with the names of thousands of communists, and other leftist activists and organizers. Thousands of these supporters of Qasim and his policies were soon dead in a rampage of mass murder carried out by the CIA's close friends in Iraq. Whichever way you paint the picture, both Iraq and Iran are a product of poor planning on the behalf of American business and government. With the death of former CIA director Richard Helms, the corporate media is offering a rare glimpse into the CIA's use of political assassinations. Unfortunately, however, the coverage is highly-sanitized. It covers up much more than it reveals. Contrary to what the corporate media suggests, assassination is not a clean, surgical method of removing very specific political enemies. It is only one small element in a larger cluster of crimes used by the CIA in executing a regime change. The reality is that the CIA's use of assassination to exterminate political leaders has historically been closely linked to many other political crimes that are, arguably, even worse. For example, when planning, coordinating, arming, training and financing repressive military coups, as the CIA has done so many times, their henchmen are wont to carry out mass arrests, mass torture and mass murder. It's a nasty business. As Kissinger once said about the CIA's betrayal of Iraqi Kurds, covert action should not be confused with missionary work. It doesn't get better by bombing it. And Phantom, if you think a few hundred Iraqis died in the Shock and Awe campaign, were you having your winter hibernation when it happened? Or just focussing on Entertainment Daily and Fox Noos? Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
hugo Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 The only way to defeat fascist Islam is to support moderate Islam. 1 Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
hugo Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 It's a stupid poll. Of course we should take action. The question is what action. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
Phantom Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 A bunch of nonsensical quotes And how do those quotes report the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians? As with all governments, the U.S. is certainly involved in some risky business. So the CIA tortures people? Hardly surprising. Assassinations? Without a doubt. Hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties? It's news to me. And Phantom, if you think a few hundred Iraqis died in the Shock and Awe campaign, were you having your winter hibernation when it happened? Yes I was. I'm so lazy I even hibernate in March and April when the S&A campaign occurred. December-February isn't enough sleep for me. Quote Blah.
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 It's a stupid poll. Of course we should take action. The question is what action. Use the same channels that every other nation uses. The IAEA was set up to stop nuclear proliferation, but the US admin denied Iran's admin the correct procedure, and used it's casting vote to veto the IAEA inspectors their rights to establish regular inspections of Iran's nuclear facilities. Same shit happened in Iraq, from memory. The inspectors were told to leave, or they would die in the invasion. Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 And how do those quotes report the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians? As with all governments, the U.S. is certainly involved in some risky business. So the CIA tortures people? Hardly surprising. Assassinations? Without a doubt. Hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties? It's news to me. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm Yes I was. I'm so lazy I even hibernate in March and April when the S&A campaign occurred. December-February isn't enough sleep for me. That's right, you people are on the other side of the planet. It's not your fault. Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
Phantom Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Thanks for the link. Let's break that article down one step at a time. Post Title: Iraq death toll 'soared post-war' "Soared post-war." Not during the shock-and-awe campaign. Post Summary: Poor planning, air strikes by coalition forces and a "climate of violence" have led to more than 100,000 extra deaths in Iraq, scientists claim. Sounds extreme until we read the actual article... A study published by the Lancet says the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the US-led invasion. Unofficial estimates of civilian deaths had varied from 10,000 to over 37,000. The Lancet admits the research is based on a small sample - under 1,000 homes - but says the findings are "convincing". But he told BBC's Today that another independent estimate of civilian deaths was around 15,000. The Iraq Body Count, a respected database run by a group of academics and peace activists, has put the number of reported civilian deaths at between 14,000-16,000. Civilian toll estimates at 10/04 Iraq Body Count: 14-16,000 Brookings Inst: 10-27,000 UK foreign secretary: >10,000 People's Kifah >37,000 Lancet: >100,000 Let them get their numbers straight before we hash around any accusations. No official estimate There is no official estimate of the number of Iraqi civilians who have died since the outbreak of the war in Iraq. Oh, and we also cannot forget another way civilians might die: "Former regime elements and insurgents have made it a practice of using civilians as human shields, operating and conducting attacks against coalition forces from within areas inhabited by civilians." Quote Blah.
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 The only way to defeat fascist Islam is to support moderate Islam. Now that is the first rational statement I've seen from you in ages, Hugo. I'll rep you, but you're topped out on rep. 1 Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Thanks for the link. Let's break that article down one step at a time. Post Title: "Soared post-war." Not during the shock-and-awe campaign. Post Summary: Sounds extreme until we read the actual article... Let them get their numbers straight before we hash around any accusations. Oh, and we also cannot forget another way civilians might die: As long as it got you thinking, Phantom, that is a good thing. Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
snafu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 The only way to defeat fascist Islam is to support moderate Islam. Now that is the first rational statement I've seen from you in ages, Hugo. I'll rep you, but you're topped out on rep. I'm gonna have to agree with hugo too. It can't hurt to try. rep to both of you. Quote "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 I took Hugo's brilliant idea, and made a thread out of it. Should I post it here? http://www.debaterelate.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=608&highlight= Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
snafu Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Radical Islam in Afghanistan and Pakistan is a direct result of a covert operation conducted by the US military and their CIA during the cold war in the early 80's. Bullshit builder! How do you get a covert action against the Soviet Union to be a direct result of Radical Islam? Quote "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
Phantom Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 As long as it got you thinking, Phantom, that is a good thing. What a cop-out. Quote Blah.
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 What a cop-out. Yeah, I'm a selfish bitch at the moment. Get used to it. Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
builder Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Bullshit builder! How do you get a covert action against the Soviet Union to be a direct result of Radical Islam? It's the other way round, snatchfood. Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
hugo Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 Let me explain the reason why George I did not take out Saddam. Standard balance of power politics. Iraq balanced out Iran. Regime change, particularly to a democracy, would increase Iran's power. Sadly, George II followed a Woodrow Wilson, Jimmy Carter type human rights based foriegn policy. You see the results. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
Phantom Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 Yeah, I'm a selfish bitch at the moment. Get used to it. Someone is ragging hard after losing the top spot in the shout box top ten. Quote Blah.
builder Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 Someone is ragging hard after losing the top spot in the shout box top ten. Wow!! Someone topped me and it wasn't Sixes? That's simply amazing Phantom. Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
Anna Perenna Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 The only way to defeat fascist Islam is to support moderate Islam. It might seem twee to mention it here, but the Koran is a really beautiful, moving, even poetic book. I'm about a quarter of the way through it, and I am starting to understand what AIG was on about - in particular, why over a billion people worldwide choose to live their lives by it. If anyone else bothers to read it, please note the ambiguity and how most parts are left open to different interpretations. Quote _______________________________________________________ I don't know how to put this, but ... I'm kind of a big deal. http://www.sucksbbs.net/data/MetaMirrorCache/da43a2f8a710897a421f74efa00eba9a.jpg I'm still here. I'm still a fool for the holy grail Not all gay men send me penis pictures. But no straight men do. And to date, no woman has sent me a picture of her vaginal canal.
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