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NO EVIDENCE OF GODS


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Guest thomas p.
Posted

On 16 Feb., 13:17, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

> On Feb 13, 6:31?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > On 13 Feb., 14:03, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

> > > On Feb 12, 9:21?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:

snip

> > What we do not have is any evidence of any miracle.- Hide quoted text -

>

> > - Show quoted text -

>

> Well, if you had been one of the people in Jerusalem at that time, you

> might have seen it a little differently. It did not seem like a

> miracle to Sennacherrib after he arrived home in Ninevah safe and

> sound, but when it happened, he was not so sure.

> Robert B. Winn- Skjul tekst i anf

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Posted

On Feb 13, 5:20�pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> On Feb 13, 8:38 am, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

>

>

> > Well, if you think I said something demonstrably false, go right ahead

> > and tell us what it was.

Posted

On Feb 13, 5:29�pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> On 13 Feb 2007 05:31:09 -0800, in alt.atheism

> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in

> <1171373469.067414.150...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:

>

> >On Feb 12, 9:36?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> >> On 12 Feb 2007 20:29:29 -0800, in alt.atheism

> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in

> >> <1171340969.769167.274...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:

>

> ...

>

>

>

>

>

> >> >Well, if the Bible exists, you should have no objection to reading

> >> >it.

Guest thomas p.
Posted

On 16 Feb., 13:27, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

> On Feb 13, 6:33?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > On 13 Feb., 14:06, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

> > > On Feb 12, 9:26?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:

>

> > > > rbwinn wrote:

> > > > > On Feb 12, 4:30?pm, Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th

> > > > > <Klaz...@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote:

> > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote innews:1171293929.513174.145260@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com:

>

> > > > > > > On Feb 12, 4:20?am, bill.m.tho...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > > > >> On Feb 12, 4:32 pm, "Semper Lib?quot; <nopolicesta...@freedom4all.org>

> > > > > > >> wrote:

>

> > > > > > >> > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

>

> > > > > > >> >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

>

> > > > > > >> > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different

> > > > > > >> > > God beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods

> > > > > > >> > > actual

> > > > > > > ly

> > > > > > >> > > exist.

>

> > > > > > >> > What do you call resurrection?

>

> > > > > > >> An unsubstantiated claim in books written by unknown authors at least

> > > > > > >> forty years (being generous here) ?after the alleged events. One of

> > > > > > >> those authors the writer of the gospel attributed to Luke by Irenaeus

> > > > > > >> in the later half of the second century, makes it clear in the first

> > > > > > >> few lines that he is just repeating hearsay. Without corroboration by

> > > > > > >> contemporary Roman records the other authors are also dismissed as

> > > > > > >> writing hearsay. Especially considering the late date that these were

> > > > > > >> written (well after the Jewish revolt).

>

> > > > > > >> > Then there's this.... and a lot more....

>

> > > > > > >> > The Anthropic Principle

>

> > > > > > >> <SNIP nonsense about anthropic principle>

>

> > > > > > >> Dead on arrival. "The puddle marveled that the hole it was in was a

> > > > > > >> perfect fit".

>

> > > > > > >> Bill

>

> > > > > > > Well, since you do not accept any of the New Testament as being valid,

> > > > > > > let's talk about the book of Isaiah in the Old Testament. ?Does the

> > > > > > > Book of Isaiah exist, or was it something you say was written as

> > > > > > > fiction in the second century also?

> > > > > > > Robert B. Winn

>

> > > > > > All of those books exist just as the books titled Harry Potter exist. That

> > > > > > doesn't mean that the contents are unquestionable.

>

> > > > > > Klazmon.- Hide quoted text -

>

> > > > > > - Show quoted text -

>

> > > > > Well, there is a woman who claims she wrote all of the Harry Potter

> > > > > books. ?Now you say that all of the books of the Bible exist. ?Did

> > > > > they just materialize, or were they written also?

> > > > > Robert B. Winn

>

> > > > They were ancient stories 'messed with' years after the said Jesus was supposed to have walked this

> > > > earth before floating skywards, by priests, king's copywriters in fact anyone who badly needed a

> > > > book that would 'impress' the people of thetimeand have them 'toe the line'.

>

> > > > Sadly it still does.- Hide quoted text -

>

> > > > - Show quoted text -

>

> > > Well, according to the scrolls of Isaiah and other Old Testament

> > > scrolls found at Qumran, what we have today is word for word what the

> > > people who buried those scrolls had. ?How do you explain that?

> > > Those people were Essenes, a Jewish sect.

>

> > What is there to explain? ?The books were written by somebody. ?So

> > what?- Hide quoted text -

>

> > - Show quoted text -

>

> Well, here is a Scripture from Isaiah for you to explain.

> Isaiah 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this

> aty your hand, to tread my courts?

 

Why do you think it needs to be explained?

Guest Don Kresch
Posted

In alt.atheism On 15 Feb 2007 18:35:15 -0800, "rbwinn"

<rbwinn3@juno.com> let us all know that:

>On Feb 15, 5:00?pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

>> In alt.atheism On 14 Feb 2007 22:24:28 -0800, "rbwinn"

>> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> >On Feb 14, 8:19?pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

>> >> In alt.atheism On 14 Feb 2007 15:25:25 -0800, "rbwinn"

>> >> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that:

>>

>> >> >On Feb 13, 7:22?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>> >> >> On Feb 13, 8:05 pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:> In alt.atheism On 13 Feb 2007 16:59:35 -0800, "rbwinn"

>>

>> >> >> ...]

>>

>> >> >> Did you notice that nowhere in the Old Testament is the messiah

>> >> >> predicted to be god? (e messiah is prophesied to bring peace, to

>> >> >> bring comfort to the wretched, to heal the earth; but nowhere in the

>> >> >> Old Testament does it say he will be worshiped as a god.

>>

>> >> >Isaiah 9:6

>>

>> >> See Is 8:3. That is the child spoken of in Is 9:6.

>>

>> >No, sorry.

>>

>> Sorry, but it's true. Only if one takes Is 9:6 completely out

>> of context can it be applied to jesus. Will you admit to taking Is 9:6

>> completely out of context?

>>

>> Don

>

>Well, let's work over to it, Don.

 

No, there's no working over to it. The fact is that the child

born in Is 8:3 fills the prophecy from Is 7:14 and is being lauded

from Is 8:5 on, continuing through Is 9.

 

Interesting note: if you read Is 9:1-2 and then find Matt

4:12-16, you'll see how the former verses were concatenated to invent

a prophecy that doesn't actually exist.

 

 

Don

---

aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde

Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.

 

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"

Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"

Guest Don Kresch
Posted

In alt.atheism On 15 Feb 2007 18:23:31 -0800, "rbwinn"

<rbwinn3@juno.com> let us all know that:

>On Feb 15, 4:59?pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

>> In alt.atheism On 14 Feb 2007 22:30:36 -0800, "rbwinn"

>> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> >On Feb 14, 8:22?pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

>> >> In alt.atheism On 14 Feb 2007 15:14:19 -0800, "rbwinn"

>> >> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that:

>>

>> >> >On Feb 13, 6:05?pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

>> >> >> In alt.atheism On 13 Feb 2007 16:59:35 -0800, "rbwinn"

>> >> >> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that:

>>

>> >> >> >On Feb 13, 2:22 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>> >> >> >> On 13 Feb., 05:29, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>>

>> >> >> >> > On Feb 12, 9:13?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:

>>

>> >> >> >> > > rbwinn wrote:

>> >> >> >> > > > On Feb 12, 9:25?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>> >> >> >> > > > > On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>>

>> >> >> >> > > > > > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>

>> >> >> >> > > > > > > ?Not even just one?

>>

>> >> >> >> > > > > > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one god

>> >> >> >> > > > > > > would make itself known.

>>

>> >> >> >> > > > > > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible?

>> >> >> >> > > > > > Robert B. Winn

>>

>> >> >> >> > > > > Why, don't you have any evidence to offer?

>>

>> >> >> >> > > > So you are maintaining that the Bible does not exist. ?Do you have

>> >> >> >> > > > anything to support your strange belief?

>> >> >> >> > > > Robert B. Winn

>>

>> >> >> >> > > Of course it exists,

>> >> >> >> > > so do Aesop's Fables and the Greek Myths- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> >> >> >> > > - Show quoted text -

>>

>> >> >> >> > Well, if the Bible exists, you should have no objection to reading

>> >> >> >> > it. (y don't I just send you a copy so that you can actually read

>> >> >> >> > it?

>>

>> >> >> >> I have read it in 4 different translations and in two different

>> >> >> >> languages. (ere is still no evidence that it is true.

>>

>> >> >> >How did you like the book of Isaiah?

>>

>> >> >> What about it? And please don't say "VIRGIN

>> >> >> BIRTH!!!111oneoneoneeleven" It's just not in there. Properly

>> >> >> translated, Is 7:14 reads "look, a young woman has conceived and shall

>> >> >> give birth", which she does in Is 8:3. The child is then praised as

>> >> >> the prince of peace and wonderful counselor (Is 9:6).

>>

>> >> >> But, you go right on believing that it's about jesus--believe

>> >> >> it in the face of the textual evidence to the contrary.

>>

>> >> >Well, actually I was going to discuss the Assyrian invasion of Judea.

>>

>> >> Which is what Is 7-9 is about, and NOT jesus.

>>

>> >Wrong.

hapter 7 is about the invasion of Judea by Israel and Syria,

>> >which was completely unsuccessful.

>>

>> Sorry about that. Had my Syrians and Assyrians mixed-up.

>>

>> Don

>> ---

>Well, actually, it was God who put them there. Anyway, Isaiah

>confuses a lot of atheists.

 

No, you mean it confuses a lot of xers, what with that

mistranslation of "ha-almah" into "virgin".

 

 

Don

---

aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde

Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.

 

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"

Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"

Guest Free Lunch
Posted

On 16 Feb 2007 04:55:08 -0800, in alt.atheism

"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in

<1171630508.580619.174060@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>:

>On Feb 13, 5:29?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>> On 13 Feb 2007 05:31:09 -0800, in alt.atheism

>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in

>> <1171373469.067414.150...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:

>>

>> >On Feb 12, 9:36?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>> >> On 12 Feb 2007 20:29:29 -0800, in alt.atheism

>> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in

>> >> <1171340969.769167.274...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:

>>

>> ...

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> >> >Well, if the Bible exists, you should have no objection to reading

>> >> >it. (y don't I just send you a copy so that you can actually read

>> >> >it?

>>

>> >> You still retain your totally dishonest approach, I see. You have

>> >> dishonestly chosen to ignore that the Bible is not evidence even though

>> >> everyone acknowledges that it exists. Now an honest Christian would

>> >> merely state that this is what they _believe_ but would never stoop to

>> >> bearing false witness about what the Bible is or how it should be used.

>> >> Why have you chosen to bear this false witness?

>>

>> >> Don't bother to offer to send me a Bible. I own half a dozen

>> >> translations and some commentaries. I know what the Bible says. I don't

>> >> see any evidence from your postings that you do. It appears that you

>> >> worship your claims about the Bible and don't care what it really says.- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> >> - Show quoted text -

>>

>> >You acknowledge that the Bible exists?

>>

>> Of course.

>>

>> >In what way do you acknowledge that the Bible exists?

>>

>> In the common meaning of the words.

>>

>> >In my opinion you are saying that you

>> >acknowledge that the Bible exists while at the sametimesaying that

>> >it does not exist.

>>

>> No, you don't get to redefine words to try to persuade people that your

>> lies are not lies.

>>

>> >I think you are getting a little ahead of yourselves.

>> >There are enough copies of the Bible on earth that you

>> >are not going to make it disappear.

>>

>> Since I have no intention to do so, why do you engage in such a

>> dishonest attack?

>>

>> >So if you acknowledge that the Bible exists, you must have some

>> >explanation for its existence. �et's hear your explanation.

>>

>> It was written and edited overtime.

>>

>> >Johannes Gutenburg printed copies of the Bible.

>>

>> Wow, you know something.

>>

>> >There must have been

>> >some way that the words he printed were arranged in the order he

>> >printed them. �r is it your belief that the people who set the type

>> >were the first ones to put the words in that order?

>>

>> Keep it up. You are doing an excellent job of mocking your religion.

>>

>I am not an atheist.

 

Didn't you claim to be LDS? That is the religion that you are bringing

into disrepute with your lies.

Posted

On Feb 15, 8:50 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

> On Feb 15, 6:57?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > On 15 Feb., 13:34, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:> On Feb 15, 2:49?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>

> > snip

>

> > > > > No atheist has said that the Bible does not exist? ?So in what way do

> > > > > you claim it exists? ?Does it exist the same way something on Bob's

> > > > > list of alleged gods exits?

> > > > > In other words, does the Bible have a physical existence, or is it

> > > > > like one of the names on Bob's list?

>

> > > > The book exists. ?I have 6 different copies of it myself in two

> > > > languages, because my work requires it. ?No atheist has said or

> > > > implied that it did not exist. ?You told a very stupid lie. ?You are

> > > > now, in a display of your inanity, trying to drag out your moronic

> > > > performance. ?Thanks for making your belief look bad.- Hide quoted text -

>

> > > Well, that is wonderful, Thomas. ?Why don't you read something from

> > > your six Bibles some time instead of reading the garbage that other

> > > atheists write about it?

>

> > Boobie you don't know what I read. ? Keep up the good work though. ?We

> > are all grateful to you.

>

> If you hang around me, you are going to read Isaiah.

> Isaiah 1:2 Hear O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath

> spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have

> rebelled against me.

> Do you like Isaiah, atheist?

> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

 

I love it. Nice poetry, great fiction.

Here's a favorite verse from this atheist:

"They shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be

weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

 

Prescient, isn't it? Somebody accidentally foresaw our Piper Cubs

and Cessna Aerobats.

 

Have you considered converting heathens to xianity by the edge of the

sword, like the Pilgrims with Indians? With your natural hostility it

seems the logical evolution of your evangelical yearnings.

Posted

On Feb 15, 8:57 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

> On Feb 15, 7:01?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > On 15 Feb., 13:46, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

> > > On Feb 15, 2:55?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>

> > > > On 15 Feb., 03:59, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

> > > > > On Feb 14, 5:24?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

> > > > > > On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>

> > > > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism

> > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in

> > > > > > > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:

>

> > > > > > > ...

>

> > > > > > > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. ?Lincoln said on

> > > > > > > >several occasions that he believed the Bible.

>

> > > > > > > Source with complete context please.

>

> > > > > > You'll never get it, not anything genuine.

>

> > > > > > Our religious kook might give you a forgery, as David Barton did in

> > > > > > his book. ?A forged quote of Lincoln is making its rounds in usenet at

> > > > > > this very moment. ?It recommends hunting down and hanging anyone

> > > > > > critical of the war effort. ?A pundit has already confessed that he is

> > > > > > the author of the quote.

>

> > > > > > The fraud was perpetrated by one of the Moonie rags, either the Moonie

> > > > > > Times or that bag of internet lies called _Insight Magazine._

>

> > > > > Well, why don't you atheists just wait until after the resurrection

> > > > > and ask Abraham Lincoln in person if he believed the Bible?

> > > > > I see no reason to worry about it myself.

>

> > > > The twit confirms Jjls' judgment.

>

> > > I gave you an option that would resolve your questions about Abraham

> > > Lincoln. ?You say you do not want to do it. ?That means that you would

> > > rather tell lies about Abraham Lincoln.

> > > Robert B. Winn- Skjul tekst i anf?stegn -

>

> > Excellent boobie! ?You combined lunacy with unconscious irony. ?There

> > are few twits in your league.- Hide quoted text -

>

> > - Show quoted text -

>

> You forgot about Isaiah.

> Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of

> evildoers, children that are corrupters; they have forsaken the Lord,

> they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone

> away backward.

> Let's see how long you can last, atheist.

> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

 

LOL! Bobby thinks he's causing great discomfort like holding a cross

up to the face of a vampire.

Posted

On Feb 15, 9:17 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

> On Feb 15, 11:56?am, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>

> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > rbwinn wrote:

> > > On Feb 14, 4:37?pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>

> > > wrote:

>

> > >>Why all this meaningless argument about "GOD"???

>

> > >>When will you guys DEFINE what you mean by that word,

> > >>BEFORE posting an argument pro or con? -- L.

>

> > > Well, the discussion was about Jesus Christ.

>

> > ===>Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

> > In fact "the discussion" was about "EVIDENCE OF GODS".

>

> > ? What is it that you say

>

> > > you do not understand about Jesus Christ?

>

> > ===>I understand EVERYTHING about that imaginary deity. -- L.

>

> I think we need to refer back to Isaiah to show you your error.

> Isaiah 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a

> vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

> I love studying the book of Isaiah with atheists.

> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

 

A little boring after a while, though, although quite poetic. I

suggest you read some dessert of Dawkins with your victuals of Isaiah.

 

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to

think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps

because of, the lack of evidence.

-- Richard Dawkins

 

And you can find great specimens of Dawkins scripture right here,

Jimmy. Enjoy!--->>>>>

 

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/dawkins.htm

Guest Free Lunch
Posted

On 16 Feb 2007 04:49:50 -0800, in alt.atheism

"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in

<1171630190.017682.310370@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:

>On Feb 13, 4:27?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>> On Feb 12, 10:41 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>> �...]

>>

>>

>>

>> > > All of those books exist just as the books titled Harry Potter exist. That

>> > > doesn't mean that the contents are unquestionable.

>>

>> > > Klazmon.- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> > > - Show quoted text -

>>

>> > Well, there is a woman who claims she wrote all of the Harry Potter

>> > books. �ow you say that all of the books of the Bible exist. �id

>> > they just materialize, or were they written also?

>> > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> > - Show quoted text -

>>

>> Nobody has challenged the authorship of the Harry Potter books, the

>> first having been written by a divorcee in Scotland while she was on

>> public assistance, and the books don't claim to be anything other than

>> fiction. But the bible claims to be true, claims to be the inspired

>> word of a god, despite that it does not stand up to scrutiny as

>> history and appears at best to be the fiction of unknown writers who

>> believed the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun

>> revolved around the earth.

>

>Appears to be fiction of unknown writers? Well, the Apostle Paul

>wrote most of the books of the New Testament. Who do you say that

>Paul was unknown to? Are you saying that if he was unknown to some

>person, then his writings were fiction? I am unknown to almost

>everyone in the world. Are my writings fiction?

 

We don't usually call religious writings fiction, though none of them

have any evidence to support them.

>Well, let's make a little test: Here is a scripture from Isaiah.

>-Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations: incense is an abomination

>to me, the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot

>away with it; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

>OK, now just explain which parts of what I wrote were fiction.

 

Once again, you don't understand what you are talking about.

Guest Free Lunch
Posted

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 05:37:55 +0800, in alt.atheism

"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in

<45d522a9$0$30102$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:

>"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message

>news:45D28350.47403640@netvigator.com...

>> Free Lunch wrote:

>>> On 13 Feb 2007 16:39:50 -0800, in alt.atheism

>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in

>>> <1171413590.219240.10340@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>:

>>> >On Feb 12, 9:25 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>>> >> On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>>> >>

>>> >> > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>> >>

>>> >> > > ?Not even just one?

>>> >>

>>> >> > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one

>>> >> > > god

>>> >> > > would make itself known.

>>> >>

>>> >> > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible?

>>> >> > Robert B. Winn

>>> >>

>>> >> Why, don't you have any evidence to offer?

>>> >

>>> >All things that exist show that there is a God.

>>

>> [i must remember to add that 'little gem' to my list of

>> 'Religious propagator's backs to the wall cop-out's]

>>

> Another of your "I am stupid" remarks, Bob? What he is saying correctly

>is, that without God nothing exists, in fact not even nothing could exist.

 

No, that is merely an unsubstatiated assertion. You have no evidence to

support your claim. You don't even have evidence that any gods exist.

There is evidence, however, that the universe does exist.

>That clearly indicates the correct definition of the word "God" and your

>stupid invisible old man in the sky kind of god is just that, a stupid

>definition you have been lambasting all your long and wasted life.

 

As soon as you show us how your god exists we can consider your

assertions.

Guest Free Lunch
Posted

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:04:25 +0800, in alt.atheism

"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in

<45d522db$0$30102$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:

>"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

>news:1171435408.363121.177970@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

>> On 14 Feb., 01:39, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>>> On Feb 12, 9:25 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>>> > On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>>> > > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>>

>>> > > > ?Not even just one?

>>>

>>> > > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one

>>> > > > god

>>> > > > would make itself known.

>>>

>>> > > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible?

>>> > > Robert B. Winn

>>>

>>> > Why, don't you have any evidence to offer?

>>

>>> All things that exist show that there is a God.

>>

>> Name one of them and explain why it is evidence of a god.

>>

> The fact that without God there would be nothing, if fact even 'nothing'

>could not be. That should narrow the choice of definitions for the word

>"God" a little. As a rule, the gods of atheist definition don't exist, and

>atheists are very, very intent on making sure of that. So you are unlikely

>to pick a definition for the word 'god' that would entail existence as a

>whole.

 

I think you just reinvented pantheism.

Guest Dan@V.A.
Posted

"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

news:1171627491.273786.57320@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

On 16 Feb., 03:55, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

>

It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups

with their challenges, insults and attacks are searching for

some reassurance of their own positions in respect to religion

and God. If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why

does it matter to them? Is is that these people are unhappy

themselves, so it galls them to recognize the satisfaction that

religious people feel and exhibit because of their faith.

 

Dan Wood, DDS

 

>

>

>

>

> > "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

>

> >news:1171435012.693634.303310@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

> > On 13 Feb., 22:47, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

> > > "Semper Lib

Guest Pastor Frank
Posted

"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message

news:45D44A1F.AE97127E@netvigator.com...

> Pastor Frank wrote:

>> "thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

>> news:1171373780.070323.55070@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>> >

>> > And no evidence for the truth of your beliefs.

>> >

>> Only as little as you have evidence for you disbelief.

>

> Fool - only the claimant is beholden to show proof.

> Religion is 'nothing' how can it possible be proved?

> But of course you already knew that

>

Religion is a values system, and you fail to prove, that having nor

value system is better than having one. It's just your very own, personal

and private assumption.

 

 

 

--

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Guest Pastor Frank
Posted

"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message

news:aqobt25i1qsgpb1no46e791mk6s5evuf7c@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:04:25 +0800, in alt.atheism

> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in

> <45d522db$0$30102$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:

>>"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message

>>news:1171435408.363121.177970@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

>>> On 14 Feb., 01:39, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>>>> On Feb 12, 9:25 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>>>> > On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>>>> > > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> > > > ?Not even just one?

>>>>

>>>> > > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one

>>>> > > > god

>>>> > > > would make itself known.

>>>>

>>>> > > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible?

>>>> > > Robert B. Winn

>>>>

>>>> > Why, don't you have any evidence to offer?

>>>

>>>> All things that exist show that there is a God.

>>>

>>> Name one of them and explain why it is evidence of a god.

>>>

>> The fact that without God there would be nothing, if fact even

>> 'nothing'

>>could not be. That should narrow the choice of definitions for the word

>>"God" a little. As a rule, the gods of atheist definition don't exist, and

>>atheists are very, very intent on making sure of that. So you are unlikely

>>to pick a definition for the word 'god' that would entail existence as a

>>whole.

>

> I think you just reinvented pantheism.

>

Pantheism = existence is God, but Christianity believes that existence

is the consequence of God, i.e God speaking the universe into existence.

That is why "in the beginning was the word" expressing an idea. And that

word / idea became reality.

 

 

 

--

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Guest Libertarius
Posted

jls wrote:

> On Feb 15, 9:17 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

>>On Feb 15, 11:56?am, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>

>>wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>>rbwinn wrote:

>>>

>>>>On Feb 14, 4:37?pm, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>

>>>>wrote:

>>

>>>>>Why all this meaningless argument about "GOD"???

>>

>>>>>When will you guys DEFINE what you mean by that word,

>>>>>BEFORE posting an argument pro or con? -- L.

>>

>>>>Well, the discussion was about Jesus Christ.

>>

>>>===>Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>>In fact "the discussion" was about "EVIDENCE OF GODS".

>>

>>>? What is it that you say

>>

>>>>you do not understand about Jesus Christ?

>>

>>>===>I understand EVERYTHING about that imaginary deity. -- L.

>>

>>I think we need to refer back to Isaiah to show you your error.

>>Isaiah 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a

>>vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

>>I love studying the book of Isaiah with atheists.

>>Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>>

>>- Show quoted text -

>

>

> A little boring after a while, though, although quite poetic. I

> suggest you read some dessert of Dawkins with your victuals of Isaiah.

>

> Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to

> think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps

> because of, the lack of evidence.

> -- Richard Dawkins

>

===>"Faith" is unquestioned belief,

thoughtless acceptance of someone else's ideas or opinions;

voluntary submission to mental slavery,

temporarily in the case of hypnosis,

permanently in the case of religion.

 

But beware:

 

THINKING CAN BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR FAITH. -- L.

Guest Pastor Frank
Posted

"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message

news:1171542385.770141.111050@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...

 

You do not want to talk about the Bible, remember? You want to talk

about the Lone Ranger and Tonto. If you would care to admit that the

Bible exists, we can talk about the Bible. Other than that we are

done talking about the Bible.

Robert B. Winn

--------------------

The Lone Ranger and Tonto had bedded down for the night in the desert,

when all of a sudden Tonto woke up to some choice swear words from the

Lone Ranger. Tonto asked: What's the matter boss? The Lone Ranger replied:

Tonto, what do you see? Tonto said: I see a beautiful night sky, with a

great many stars, testifying of God's magnificence and glory. Why do you ask

Boss? The Lone Ranger said: Can't you see, you dumb hoss, while we were

asleep somebody stole our tent!!!!

 

 

 

--

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Posted

On Feb 15, 6:37 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:

> "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

>

> news:1171409278.775617.84130@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...

>

>

>

> > On Feb 12, 10:41 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

> >> > All of those books exist just as the books titled Harry Potter exist.

> >> > That

> >> > doesn't mean that the contents are unquestionable.

>

> >> > Klazmon.- Hide quoted text -

> >> > - Show quoted text -

>

> >> Well, there is a woman who claims she wrote all of the Harry Potter

> >> books. Now you say that all of the books of the Bible exist. Did

> >> they just materialize, or were they written also?

> >> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

> >> - Show quoted text -

>

> > Nobody has challenged the authorship of the Harry Potter books, the

> > first having been written by a divorcee in Scotland while she was on

> > public assistance, and the books don't claim to be anything other than

> > fiction. But the bible claims to be true, claims to be the inspired

> > word of a god, despite that it does not stand up to scrutiny as

> > history and appears at best to be the fiction of unknown writers who

> > believed the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun

> > revolved around the earth.

>

> Non sequitur!!

 

Non sequitur, hell. What do you say are my premises and conclusion?

There is little or no history supporting facts or characters in the

bible. There is absolutely NO history supporting the supernatural

occurrences in the bible. There have been no sightings, photographs,

DNA samples, credible accounts of miracles, or other probata to prove

the allegations of the bible.

 

Its beliefs are based on superstitions and irrational longings long

since abandoned by reasonable human beings.

 

And yet you call the thing "inerrant." Well, I am inerrant. I have

ten fingers and ten toes, 6 senses, and a thinking brain, and I am

inerrant while your bible is a compendium of amusing and ridiculous

fictions.

 

And by the way, the King James Bible is a monstrous plagiarism too.

King James stole it from the estate of William Tyndall, who had been

executed for the "blasphemy" of translating the bible so that the

plowboy could read from the same scripture the bishop read.

 

 

You apparently haven't noticed yet that holy scripture is

> dedicated to character development and not to science nor history,

 

It's dedicated to a fiction --- the one "true" god, who is made up of

three entities, a holy spirit, a Jehovah, and a Jesus, none of whom

has ever made himself known or allowed herself to be seen or

interviewed here on earth.

 

 

 

the

> latter merely being used as vehicles to illustrate what it means to be

> empathic and humane.

 

I can flow with empathy, compassion, and humanity much better, thank

you, without embracing your cruel and angry god.

> The kingdom of heaven is a utopian construct of a selfless world, where

> people love each other, and care more about others than themselves. See

> below

 

Yes, I think you're correct. Heaven is a fabrication meant to satisfy

the yearnings of mortals who cannot deal with mortality and therefore

synthesize immortality using ancient myths as their sources.

>

> Pastor Frank

>

> Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one

> another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

> Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,

> if ye have love one to another.

> Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,

> as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down

> his life for his friends.

> Jesus in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command..."

> Jesus in John 14:21-24 "Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is

> the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too

> will love him and show myself to him. He who does not love me will not obey

> my teaching.

> These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent

> me."

 

So your bag is John while Bobby's is Isaiah, but I consider the bible

as a whole and it certainly doesn't make a good first impression in

its three bloody books of genesis, exodus and numbers.

 

And then it ends with the horror show of Revelations.

 

The Koran is probably a more monstrous work of fiction; time to read

that puppy rather than just a few of Allah's bloody mandates to

amputate and slaughter.

Guest thomas p.
Posted

On 16 Feb., 04:57, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:

> rbwinn wrote:

> > On Feb 15, 2:52�am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

> > > On 15 Feb., 00:54, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:> On Feb 13, 11:48?pm, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

snip

> > > > Well, let's get right to it. In what way do you acknowedge that the

> > > > Bible exists? Bob has a list that he keeps posting. Does the Bible

> > > > exist the same way something on Bob's list exists?

>

> > > And the twit continues to make a fool of himself.

> > So what is the cause of your reluctance to answer the question? Bob

> > has a list of evil spirits that he claims exist in the world. Does

> > the Bible have an existence like something on Bob's list or is the

> > Bible tangible?

>

> You must be some kind of fool.

 

Apparently he is insane. We are not going to get a rational response

out of him; it is just not in him.

 

snip

Guest thomas p.
Posted

On 16 Feb., 13:49, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

> On Feb 13, 4:27?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > On Feb 12, 10:41 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

> > ?[...]

>

> > > > All of those books exist just as the books titled Harry Potter exist. That

> > > > doesn't mean that the contents are unquestionable.

>

> > > > Klazmon.- Hide quoted text -

>

> > > > - Show quoted text -

>

> > > Well, there is a woman who claims she wrote all of the Harry Potter

> > > books. ?Now you say that all of the books of the Bible exist. ?Did

> > > they just materialize, or were they written also?

> > > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>

> > > - Show quoted text -

>

> > Nobody has challenged the authorship of the Harry Potter books, the

> > first having been written by a divorcee in Scotland while she was on

> > public assistance, and the books don't claim to be anything other than

> > fiction. ? But the bible claims to be true, claims to be the inspired

> > word of a god, despite that it does not stand up to scrutiny as

> > history and appears at best to be the fiction of unknown writers who

> > believed the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun

> > revolved around the earth.

>

> Appears to be fiction of unknown writers? Well, the Apostle Paul

> wrote most of the books of the New Testament. Who do you say that

> Paul was unknown to?

 

Paul did not write the gospels little boobie.

 

 

snip

Guest thomas p.
Posted

On 16 Feb., 15:20, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> On Feb 15, 8:57 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > On Feb 15, 7:01?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

snip

>

> > You forgot about Isaiah.

> > Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of

> > evildoers, children that are corrupters; they have forsaken the Lord,

> > they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone

> > away backward.

> > Let's see how long you can last, atheist.

> > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>

> > - Show quoted text -

>

> LOL! Bobby thinks he's causing great discomfort like holding a cross

> up to the face of a vampire.-

 

It is strange isn't it? He really seems to believe that reading

verses from Isaiah will scare atheists. It is hard to accept that

somebody can be so incredibly silly.

Guest Pastor Frank
Posted

"jls" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:1171556592.592585.319940@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...

> On Feb 14, 3:17 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:

>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message

>> news:1171374673.776239.100670@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> What is it that you think you are going to accomplish by making all of

>> these lists of things you do not believe?

>> Do you have any lists of things you believe?

>> Robert B. Winn

>> ------------------

>> Atheists ONLY have lists of disbeliefs.

>

> No, they believe in reality, in the scientific method, in the fossil

> record, in the beauties of the world and universe, and are skeptical

> of people who make claims based on a book whose provenance is at best

> a pretence without corroboration.

>

So you say, but atheists only talk about their disbeliefs and never say

anything they believe. If atheists have beliefs as you insist, then they

must be keeping them a secret, so as not to expose them to ridicule, the

kind they love to dish out.

>

> They hope that by the time they

>> have listed all their disbeliefs, what's left over must be believable.

>> It's

>> a vain hope, for atheists don't look for anything believable, and so

>> would

>> miss it, were something believable to show up.

>

> You are confusing faith with belief. "Faith is believing what you

> know ain't so," as Tom Sawyer said.

> Galileo, Newton, Einstein, and Hawking furnish belief based on

> observation and analysis. You provide hokum.

>

You either forget, or can't see, that religion is about value systems

that deal with the divide between competition vs. cooperation. It's part of

moral and social philosophy. Nothing atheists say deals with values, other

than the demand that everyone should think them up for himself. That's how

smart talkers, like Hitler got his values accepted and implemented.

Christ got His values accepted by standing fast to the death,

....something few atheists would be willing to do. What are His values? You

need to read up on Him and see. "hokum" indeed!!!!!

 

 

 

--

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Guest Pastor Frank
Posted

"jls" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:1171557849.413643.272690@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> On Feb 15, 7:22 am, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>> On Feb 15, 2:17?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>> > On 15 Feb., 00:29, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote:

>> > > On Feb 13, 8:34?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:

>> > > > Free Lunch wrote:

>> > > > > On 13 Feb 2007 16:54:11 -0800, in alt.atheism

>> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in

>> > > > > <1171414451.120125.63...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>:

>> > > > > >On Feb 13, 2:10 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote:

>> > snip

>>

>> > > > > >I offered to send you a copy of the Bible. ?You have

>> > > > > >consistently

>> > > > > >maintained that the Bible does not exist.

>>

>> > > > > How many more times will you repeat that lie.

>>

>> > > > He is lying for god - so it's Okay.

>>

>> > > Well, Bob, does the Bible exist or not? ?You say whether it exists.

>> > > Don't try to call me a liar just because I called your bluff.

>>

>> > You are a liar. ?You said that I and others claimed the Bible did not

>> > exist. ?Not only was that a lie, it was incredibly silly. ?You called

>> > nobody's bluff; you just told a silly lie.- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> > - Show quoted text -

>>

>> You are still claiming that the Bible does not exist. If I ask you

>> about Isaiah's account of the Assyrian invasion of Judea, you reply

>> with an inane question about fictional characters. So, the

>> conversation is over. You are claiming that the Bible does not exist.

>> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text -

>> - Show quoted text -

>

> You are pathetic, Bobby. You've done violence to the English language

> with your mendacity, and your only alternative now to propagate your

> superstition is violence against the person.

> Philosophers and freethinkers don't do violence, but it's second

> nature with you Christians.

>

Religion IS Philosophy, and free thinkers allowed Hitler to sell His

values to his nation and which caused the misery and death of untold

millions. Apparently, your simplistic mind would believe anyone who says he

is a Christian, even if he did, as well as advocate doing the opposite from

the principles Christ stands for to His death on the cross. "Pathetic"

indeed!!!! See below

 

Pastor Frank

 

The most important, yet most ignored commandments of Christ, which would

make war, if not ALL of man's inhumanity to man extinct, nay totally

unthinkable:

THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST

Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy

heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy

strength: this is the first commandment.

31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour

as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two

commandments."

THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST, or Ethic of Reciprocity

Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men

should do to you, do ye even so to them...."

 

 

 

--

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Guest Pastor Frank
Posted

"Don Kresch" <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote in message

news:u0t9t29t9133fjdkqcvtbp9dpnc036ov1m@4ax.com...

>

> Yes, and it's nice that my opinion and reality coincide.

>

Is "reality" the god you worship? Reality worshippers are stoic

fatalists, ready to accept whatever reality dishes out. Only God's people

are willing to make an effort to live up to ideals, in the hope of improving

upon reality.

 

 

 

--

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