Guest Piedmont Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Text copied from: http://www.bahai-education.org/ Free Download of software titled: "Ocean" PROOFS AND EVIDENCES OF THE EXISTENCE OF GOD One of the proofs and demonstrations of the existence of God is the fact that man did not create himself: nay, his creator and designer is another than himself. It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being. The maker, the creator, has to possess all perfections in order that he may create. Can the creation be perfect and the creator imperfect? Can a picture be a masterpiece and the painter imperfect in his art? For it is his art and his creation. Moreover, the picture cannot be like the painter; otherwise, the painting would have created itself. However perfect the picture may be, in comparison with the painter it is in the utmost degree of imperfection. The contingent world is the source of imperfections: God is the origin of perfections. The imperfections of the contingent world are in themselves a proof of the perfections of God. For example, when you look at man, you see that he is weak. This very weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of the Eternal Almighty One, because, if there were no power, weakness could not be imagined. Then the weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of God; for if there were no power, there could be no weakness; so from this weakness it becomes evident that there is power in the world. Again, in the contingent world there is poverty; then necessarily wealth exists, since poverty is 6 apparent in the world. In the contingent world there is ignorance; necessarily knowledge exists, because ignorance is found; for if there were no knowledge, neither would there be ignorance. Ignorance is the nonexistence of knowledge, and if there were no existence, nonexistence could not be realized. It is certain that the whole contingent world is subjected to a law and rule which it can never disobey; even man is forced to submit to death, to sleep and to other conditions -- that is to say, man in certain particulars is governed, and necessarily this state of being governed implies the existence of a governor. Because a characteristic of contingent beings is dependency, and this dependency is an essential necessity, therefore, there must be an independent being whose independence is essential. In the same way it is understood from the man who is sick that there must be one who is in health; for if there were no health, his sickness could not be proved. Therefore, it becomes evident that there is an Eternal Almighty One, Who is the possessor of all perfections, because unless He possessed all perfections He would be like His creation. Throughout the world of existence it is the same; the smallest created thing proves that there is a creator. For instance, this piece of bread proves that it has a maker. Praise be to God! the least change produced in the form of the smallest thing proves the existence of a creator: then can this great universe, which is endless, be self-created and come into existence from the action of matter and the elements? How self-evidently wrong is such a supposition! These obvious arguments are adduced for weak souls; but if the inner perception be open, a hundred thousand clear proofs become visible. Thus, when man feels the indwelling spirit, he is in no need of arguments for its existence; but for those who are deprived of the bounty of the spirit, it is necessary to establish external arguments. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 4) See Also, http://www.bahai.org Warmest Regards, Michael (Piedmont) "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods actually > exist. > > > > Quite the contrary, there is a wealth of positive objective verifiable > evidence that no Gods actually exist. > > > > Objective evidence indicates the Universe is greater than 20 BILLION LIGHT > YEARS in diameter. When you consider that light travels at 186,000 MILES PER > SECOND the Universe is incomprehensible in size and by comparison, our > World, is but a speck of dust in this vast Universe. > > > > The scientific evidence is that our World is over 4 BILLION YEARS old. > Archaeological evidence is that man has existed on earth for approximately > 100,000 years. When the various books of the Bible were written, most of > mankind believed the world was flat and the Sun, Stars and Planets revolved > around the Earth. Many believed that Christopher Columbus might sail to the > edge of the earth, and might fall off, during his trip that discovered the > new continent. > > > > By the 16 Th. century, scientists like Galileo, determined that the Earth, > Stars and Planets of our solar system revolved around the Sun. This spread > through the scientific community and the majority accepted this reality by > the 1800's. We now know from actual evidence, the earth is but an > inconsequential speck of dust in this unimaginably vast Universe. It is > scientific opinion that thousands and perhaps millions of planets, similar > to Earth, exist in this huge Universe. > > > > Man is but grains of sand on this large Earth and less than dust in this > vast Universe. The 6 1/2 BILLION persons currently on this planet do not > appear to be of any significant consequence in this vast Universe. > > > > In your Gods, world Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars, > Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases, serious body malfunctions and > starvation exist that torture both man and animals. There are 12,000 known > ailments and diseases that torture and kill man. A similar number torture > and plaque the rest of the animal kingdom. Thousands of destructive diseases > affect the plant kingdom. Why would an all powerful god create all these > diseases to torture and kill his creations??? These catastrophes affect > people of ALL religious beliefs including TOTALLY INNOCENT CHILDREN and > ANIMALS! > > > > Just one small example of ridiculous ailments is a parasitic worm in West > Africa that bores through the eyes of innocent children and causes total > blindness for the rest of their lives. Is this evidence of a caring and > loving creator or any competent creator for that matter??? > > > > Why would any all powerful competent god permit totally innocent children to > die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed brain, > deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and others with > super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others pauper poor? > Why does he permit 2,000,000 totally innocent children to suffer and die of > starvation each year? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate > into a miserable and devastating old age? > > > > Why would god create a gene for vitamin C synthesis in most mammals, but > stop it working in humans and chimps? > > Why would god create a lizard that reproduces by parthenogenesis, and > still give it the need to attempt copulation? > > Why would god create birds without the power of flight, yet give them > wings they cannot use? > > Why would god create cave-dwelling creatures that live in complete > darkness, yet give them eyes that don't work? > > > > If an all powerful god created this, why did he make so many horrible > mistakes and create this huge multitude of imperfections, pain and > suffering??? > > Why would any all powerful god create things like sharks, jelly fish, > octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging and poisonous > insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why would he create animals (including man) > that need to kill and eat other animals to survive? > > > > IF there is an after life and a 'heaven' why does this all powerful, all > caring and all loving god not permit those in his heaven to communicate the > wonders of his heaven to their living children, relatives and friends? Why > all the secrecy and confusion? Unproven claims by the mentally deranged and > persons with selfish motives are not objective verifiable evidence - they > are just unsubstantiated silly OPINIONS. > > > > Logic and common sense that refutes the existence of any omnipotent gods; > > > > Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? > Then he is not omnipotent. > Is he able, but not willing? > Then he is malevolent. > Is he both able and willing? > Then where does evil come from? > Is he neither able nor willing? > Then why call him a god? > > > > These god tales make no more sense than Aesop's Fables, the Harry Potter > stories, the Wizard of Oz, or Santa Claus. > > > > The objective evidence is that gods did not create man but quite the > opposite; man created gods! > > > > Where is ANY objective verifiable evidence that ANY Gods actually exist? > > > > Following is a list of the many gods worshipped and feared by man over the > decades. > > Which, if any, of these gods is the real god? If there is a real god, why > does he not tell us directly and clearly he is the real god and all the > others are fakes??? Why does he not smite all the fakes? > > > > Allah, Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Babaluaye, Bacchus, > Baldur, Bast, Bellona, Brahma, Brigid, Ceres, Cupid, Cerridwen, > Demeter, Diana, Dione, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Eleggua, , El Shaddai, Elohim > Eshu, > Ereshkigal, Frigga, Frey, Freya, Gaea, Lord Genesa, Hades, Hebe, Hera, > Helios, Hel, > Hephaestus, Hermes, Hestia, Horus, Ibeji, Ifa, Inanna, Indra, Ishana, > Ishtar, > Isis, Janus, Juno, Jehovah, Jesus, Jove, Jupiter, Kali. Krishna Kronos, > Korravai, > Loki, Lugh, Lord Indra, Manitou, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Mercurius, > Morrigan, > Nahuiquiahuitl, Nanahuatzin, Nephthys, Neptune, Obatala, Odin, Ogun, > Oshosi, Oshun, Osiris, Oya, Orunmila, Olokun, Olodumare, Pluto, > Persephone, Poseidon, Proserpina, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Lord Rama, Rhea, Saturn, > Set, Selene, Shango, Lord Siva, Tammuz, Thor, Tir, Tiw, Uranus, Venus, > Vesta, > > Vishnu, Vesta, Vulcan, Wotan, Yahweh, Yemaya, Zeus. > > > > > African gods: > > Abassi [sky] > Abonsam [Evil] > Abora [supreme] > Abzu [Water] > Acoran [supreme] > Adaheli [sun] > Adro [sky] > Adroa [sky] > Agassou [Panther] > Agbe-Naete [Water] > Age [Animals] > Aigamuxa [Monster] > Ajalamo[unborn Children] > Aje [Wealth] > Ajok [supreme] > Akonadi [Oracle] > Akongo [supreme] > Akuj [supreme] > Ala [Earth/Fertility] > Alatangana [Creator] > Amma [Creator] > Anansi [Trickster] > Anyiewo [snake] > Aondo [Creator] > Apa [Creator] > Apedemak [War] > Arawa [Moon] > Arebati [sky] > Arom [Contracts] > Arsan Duolai [underworld] > Asase Ya [Earth] > Ashiakle [Wealth] > Asis [sun] > Astar [sky] > Ataa Naa > Nyongmo > [Creator] > Ataokoloinona [supreme] > Atete [Fertility] > Avrikiti [Fishermen] > Ayabba > [Ayaba] [Hearth] > > > Bacax [Cave] > Bagba [Wind] > Balubaal [Earth+] > Bandara [superior Gods] > Banga [Clear water] > Behanzin [Fish] > Beher [sea] > Bera Pennu [Vegetation] > Bo [Warriors] > Bomazi[Ancestors] > Buadza [WInd] > Buck[River] > Buku [sky] > Bumba [Creator] > > > Cagn [Creator] > (!Kaggen) > Cghene [Creator] > Chiuke > (Chuku) [Creator] > Chiata [supreme] > Chwezi [Hero] > Col [Rain] > Chikara [sky] > > > Danh > (Dan Ayido Hwedo) [snake] > Deng [sky] > Deohako [beans+] > Dii Mauri [Moorish Gods] > Dongo [Outer Space] > Dugbo [Earth] > Dxui [Creator] > > > > Emeli-hi [supreme] > Eranoranhan [Protector] > Eshu (Elegba) [Trickster] > > > > Fa [Destiny] > Famien [Fertility] > Faro [sky/Water] > Fidi Mukullu [Creator] > > > > Garang and Abuk [First Humans] > Gbeni [Chief] > Gei (Gou) [Moon] > Gu [War/Smiths] > Gua [sky] > Gulu [supreme] > Gunab [Evil] > Guruhi [Evil] > Gurzil [bull] > Gwalu [Rain] > Hammon [setting Sun] > Harun and Haruna [Water Spirits] > Heitsi-Eibib [sorcerer] > Hevioss [Thunder] > Huntin [Tree] > Huvean [Creator] > > > > Ifa [Oracul] > Ikenga [supreme] > Imana [Creator] > Iruwa [sun] > > Jesus [savior] > Juok [Creator] > Kalumba [Creator] > Kalunga Supreme] > Katavi [Demonic] > Ka Tyeleo [supreme] > Khebieso [Lightening] > Kho-dumo-dumo [Demon] > Kholomodumo [Monster] > Khuzwane [Creator] > Kibuka [War] > Kokola [Guardian] > Kwammang-a [supreme] > Kwoth [spirit] > Kyala [Creator] > > > > Legba [Trickster] > Leza [Chief] > Libanza [supreme] > Lisa [Chameleon] > Lyangombe[Chief] > Macardit [Demon] > Mantis [Creator] > Massim-Biambe [Creator] > Mawu [sky] > Mawu-Lisa [supreme Couple] > Mbotumbo [supreme] > Medr [Earth] > Moomb [Creator] > Mon [?] > Mugasa > Mugu [sky] > Mujaji [Rain] > Mukasa [supreme] > Mula Djadi [Creator] > Muluku [supreme] > Mulungu > Mungu [Creator] > Mungo (Mungu) [?] > Musa (Teaching] > Musisi [supreme] > Mwari [supreme] > > > Nampa [Personal] > Nana-Bouclou [First Gods] > Nana Buluk [Creator] > Ndjambi [sky] > Ndriananahary [supreme] > Nduru [Jungle] > Nenaunir [storm] > Nesshoue [River] > Ngai ('Ngai) [Creator] > Ngewo-wa [Creator] > Ngworekara [Demon] > Niamye [supreme] > Nkosi Yama'kosi [supreme] > Nommo [Elemental] > Nommo [spirit] > Nyama [Animal] > Nyambe [supreme] > Nyambi (Nyambe) [supreme] > Nyame > Nyami-Nyami [Guardian] > Nyankopon (Ashanti:Nyame) [supreme] > Nyamia Ama [supreme] > Nyasaye [supeme] > Nzambi (Nzambi) > Mpunguo) [supreme] > Nzame [supreme] > > > Obassi Osaw [supreme] > Obatala [sky] > Oduduwa (Odudua) [Earth] > Ogun (Ogoun) War] > Olokula [sea] > Olorun [supreme] > Omumbo-Rombonga [Tree of Life] > Orahan [supreme] > Orisa Nla [Creator] > Orishako [Agriculture] > Orunjan [Midday Sun] > Orunmila [Compassion] > Oshalla [?] > Osun [beauty and Love] > Oya [Passion and Power] > > > Pemba (Bemba) Mother] > Qandisa [Demon] > Qamata[Quamta] Supreme] > > Rock-Sene [supreme] > Ruwa [supreme] > Sagbata [smallpox] > Sakarabru [Medicine] > Sakpata [smallpox] > Sango [Thunder] > Shango [Thunder] > So [Lightening] > > > Tano [River] > Tore [Forest] > Trowu[spirits] > Tsui'goab [Rain] > Twe [Lake] > > Umvelinqangi [Creator] > Unkulunkulu [supreme] > Unumbotte [Creator] > > Waka [Rain] > Wele [supreme] > Wulbari [supreme] > Wuni [supreme] > > > Xewioso [Thunder] > Yemaja [Creation] > Yo [impersonal] > > Zin [Water] > > Asian Gods: > > BUDDHIST > > Abhijnaraja [Physician] > Abhimukhi [One of the Bhumis] > Acala [?] > Adhimukticarya [One of the Bhumis] > Adhimuktivasita [One of the Bhumis] > Adibuddha [First] > Adidharma [Primeval] > Aizen Myo-o [Protective] > Ajaya [?] > Akasagarbha(Tibetan Nam-mkhai > Aksayajnana-Karmanda [Literature] > Aksobhya (Japanese Ashuku, Chinese A-Chu'u) [One of the Dhyani] > Amida [savior] > Amitabha [A Dhyani] > Amitayus [Longevity] > Amoghapasa [see Avalokitesvara] > Amoghasiddhi [A Dhyani] > Anantamukhi [Literature] > Arapacana [book and Sword] > Arcismati [bhumis] > Arhat [A Saint] > Arthapratisamvit [Logical Analysis] > Arya-Tara [sakti] > Asokakanta [avatar Marici] > Asokottamasri [Physician] > Astabhuja-Kurukulla [avatar Kurukulla] > Asura [Group of Demons] > Avalokitesvara(Avalokita, Lokesvara) [Dhyani Present Age] > Ayurvasita[One vasitas] > > Balaparamita [Philosophy] > Bhaisajyaguru(Sman-bla, Otaci,Yao-shih-fo, Yakushi)[Physician] > Bhima[Attendant] > Bhrkuti[Female] > Bhrkuti-Tara [Mother] > Bhumi [spiritual Spheres] > Bhutadarma [Demon Controller] > Bi-har [Protector] > Bodhidharma [Monk] > Bodhisattva (Chinese Pu-sa) [born to be Englightened] > Buddhabodhiprabhavasita [Vasitas] > Buddhalocana [Female Buddha] > Budha [Mercury] > Butcho [?] > > Chandarosana [Mahayana] > Charcika (Carcika) [Mahayana] > Chakravartin [World Ruler] > Chattrosnisa [An Usnisa] > Chaturmaharajas (Caturmaharajas) [Four Great Kings] > Chittavista [Vashitas] > Citipati [Graveyard Demons] > Cunda [Literature] > Da-shi-zhi [bodhisattva] > Dadimunda [Temples] > Dainichi' [Purity/Wisdom] > Dakini [Demons] > Dala Kadavara [Demon] > Devaputra [Gods of Lower Rank] > Dhanada [avatar Amoghasiddhi] > Dharani [Mystical Texts] > Dharmadhatuvagisvara [Dharma] > Dharmakirtisagaraghosa [Physician] > Dharmamegha [bhumis] > Dharmapala ,Chinese Fu Ha [Protective Dieties] > Dharmapratisamvit [Nature Analysis] > Dharmavasita [Vasitas] > Dhritarashtra (Pali Dhatarattha) [One of the 4 World Guardians] > Dhupa [Mother] > Dhupatara [Mahayana] > Dhvajagrakeyura [avatar Aksobhya] > Dhyanaparamita [Philosophy] > Dhyani-Bodhisattvas [Five Bodhisattvas] > Dhyani-Buddhas [Five Meditators] > Di-zang [bodhisattvas of Hell] > Dvarapala [?] > > Ekajata [Terrible] > Emma-o [Judges the Dead] > > Fudo [WIsdom] > > Guan Yin [bodhisattva] > > Hariti [Ate Children] > Hayagriva [Protection] > Heruka [Protection] > Hevajra [Protection] > > Ida-Ten [Law/Monestaries] > > Jambhala [avatar Vausravana] > Janguli [snakebite cure] > Jian Lao [Earth/Permanence] > Jizo [Compassion] > Juichimen [Mercy] > > Kali devia [avatar Lha-mo] > > Kannon [Japanese bodhisattva] > Khasarpana(Khasarpana-Lokesvara) [indian bodhisattva] > Ki Fudo [avatar Fudo-Myo-o] > Krodhadevatas [inspire Terror] > Ksitigarbha [One of 8 bodhisattva] > Kuan-yin (Kwannon) [Mercy] > Kujaku Myoo [Esoteric] > Kurukulla [?] > > Locana [?] > > Mahasthamaprata [Chinese bodhisattva] > Maitreya [Future] > Manjughosa [Nepalese bodhisattva] > Manjusri [bodhisattva] > Mara [Evil] > Marici [sun] > Mi-lo Fo (Pu-Sa) [Chinese bodhisattva > Miroku [Japanese bodhisattva > Mo-Li [Protects Temples] > > Padmanartesvara [avatar Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara] > Pancaraksa[5 Goddesses] > Pandara [?] > Paramasva [?] > Parnasavari [?] > Prajna [Femaleness] > Prajnaparamita [buddhist Text] > Ran-deng [beggar and Future Buddha] > Ratnapani [Dhyani-Bodhisattva] > Ratnasambhava [Dhyani-Buddha] > Remanta [King of the Horse gods] > > Sakyamuni [Japanese] > Samantabhadra [bodhisattvas] > Saptaksara [avatar Heruka] > Shakra [King of the Gods] > Ssu Ta T'ien Wang [Kings of Heaven] > Sumbharaja [buddhist Krodhadevata] > > Tennin (Tennyo) [angels] > > Usnisavijaya [?] > > Vairocana [Dhyani-Buddhas] > Vaisravana (Pali Vessavana, Chinese Do Wen) [Guards World] > Vajrabhairava [?] > Vajrapani [bodhisattvas] > Vajrasattva [Nepal Dhyani-Buddha] > Vajravarahi [?] > Vajrayogini [initiation] > Vajrayogini [Riches] > Vidyadharas [?] > Vidyujjvalakarali [?] > Vighnantaka [?] > Virudhaka (Pali Virulha, Chinese Zheng Zhang) [Guards World] > Virupaksa (Pali Virupakkha, Chinese Guand Mu) [Guards Western Heaven] > Visvapani [Dhyani-Bodhisattva] > > We-to [Divine General] > > Yakushi Nyorai [Healing] > Yama [?] > Yamantaka [Krodhadevatas] > > Zhu Dian (Zhu Tian) [Chinese Buddhist gods] > > CHINESE GODS > > Ao [sea] > Awun [Destruction] > > Ba [Drought] > Ba Gua [basis of Divination] > Bo Hsian [Taoist] > > Cai-Shen [Riches] > Can Cong [silkworms] > Cao Guo-jiu [Actors] > Chang Fei [War] > Chang Hs'ien [Children] > Chang Kuo-lao [?] > Ch'ang E (Ch'ang-o Huang E) [Moon] > Chang Tao Ling [Afterlife] > Cheng-huang (Ch'eng Huang) [Guardians] > Chen Jen [spiritual Beings] > Cheng San-Kung [Fishermen] > Cheng Yuan Ho (Ch'ang-o Huang E) [buskers] > Chih Nu [Weavers] > Chih Sung-Tzu (Chi Sung Tzu) [Rain] > Chih-Yu [inventor] > Ch'in-Shu-Pao [Guardian] > Chou Wang [sodomy] > Chu-Chuan Shen [Pigsties] > Chu Jung [Fire] > Chu Lung [Day/Night] > Chung K'uei [Afterlife] > Chung-li Ch'uan [immortal] > Confucius [Philosopher] > > Di Zhang Xia [?] > Dong-yo Da-di [Helps Sky God] > > Erh-Lang [Guardian] > > Fan-K'uei [butchers] > Fei Lien (Fei Lian) [Wind] > Feng-Huang (Hoang-female Phuong-male) [Many Meanings] > Feng Po (Feng-Po) [Human form of the wind] > Feng P'o-p'o (Feng-Po-Po) [Female wind] > Fo [buddha] > Fu His [Taught Humanity] > Fu Hsing [Happiness] > Fu Shen [Happiness] > Fu-Shou-Lu [Collection of Gods] > Fu-xi [Hero] > > Gao Yao (Ting-jian) [Judgement] > Gong Gong [Common Workers] > Gou Mang and Ru Shou [Messengers] > Guan Di (Kuan Ti) [War/Fortune Telling] > Gui Xian [Demon] > > Han Hsiang [immortal] > Han Xiang-zi [immortal] > He Bo (Bing-yi) [Rivers] > Heng E (Change-e) [Moon] > He Xian-gu [immortal] > Heng-Ha-Erh-Chiang [Temples] > Heng-o [Moon] > Ho Hsien-ku [immortal] > Ho Po [River] > Hou Chi [Harvest] > Hou I [Archer] > Hou T'u [Earth] > Hsien [Taoists] > Hsi Ho [sun's Creator] > Hsi Wang Mu [Guardian] > Hsuan-T'ien-Shang-Ti [Dark Heaven] > Hua Hsien [Flower] > Huang-di (Huang Ti) (Shun) [Hero] > Huang Fei-hu (Fei) [Mountain] > Hu-Shen [Hail] > > I [bowmen] > Infoniwoo [Generation] > I-Ti [Wine] > > K'ai Lu Shen [Purges Evil] > Kuan Yu [War] > K'uei Hsing [Examinations] > > Lan Cai-he [immortal] > Lao T'ien Yeh [supreme] > Lao-Tzu (Lao-zi) [Philosopher] > Lei Kung [storm] > Lei-zi [Thunder] > Li [Fire] > Li Tie-guai [immortal] > Liu [Crops] > Lu Dong-bin (Lu Yan) [immortal] > Lu-Hsing [salaries/Employees] > Lung Wang [Dragon King] > Lupan [Carpenters] > > Ma-Mien [bureaucrat] > Meng (Meng P'o) [underworld] > Meng-T'ien [Writing Brush] > Men Shen [Doors, includes sometimes Wei Cheng] > Mu Gong [immortals] > > Niu-Y'oun [Police] > Nu Gua (Nu Kua, Nu Wa) [Creator and Marriage] > > O-Mi-T'o Fo [Amitabha] > > Pa [Drought] > Pa-Cha [Anti-locusts] > Pa-Hsien [Eight Immortals] > P'an-Chin-Lien [Prostitues] > 'P'an Ku (Panku, Pangu) [Cosmos] > Pi-Hsia-Yuan-Chun [Childbirth] > Puhsien [sun] > > Ran-deng [Future Buddha] > > San Ch'inga [Three Taos] > Shang Di (Shang Ti) [supreme] > She Chi (Thu) [Earth] > Shen [spirit] > Sheng Jen [Holy] > Shen-nong(Shen Nung) [Hero] > Shen-T'u [Guardian] > Shen Yi [sun] > Shiang Ku [Magician] > Shih-Tien Yen-Wang [Committe of Ten] > Shou-Hsing [Longevity] > Shou Lao (Shou Xing Lao Tou-zi) [Long Life] > Shou-Ts'ang [servant] > Shui-Fu [Water] > Shui-Kuan [Defender] > Ssu Ming [Life and Death] > Sung-Chiang [Theives] > Sun Hou-Tzu [Monkey] > Sun Hou-zi [Apes] > Sun-Pin [Cobblers] > > T'ai I [High] > Tai-sui-xing [Time] > Tai-yi [sky] > T'ai Yueh Ta Ti (Tung-Yueh-Ta-Ti, T'ai-Yo, Ta-Ti) [Peak] > Thu [Earth] > Tian [sky] > Tian-zhu [Catholic] > Tien (T'ien) [sky] > Tien-Hou (T'ien Fei) [Heaven] > T'ien-Kuan [Happiness] > T'ien Lung [Dragon] > Tien Mu [Lightening] > Tien-Wang (Mo-Li) [Kings] > Ti-Kuan [Foregiveness] > Ti Nu (Ti-ya) [Earth] > Ti-Tsang-Wang-Pu-Sa [Mercy] > Ti Yu [Afterlife] > Tou Nu [North Star] > Ts'ai-Lun [stationers] > Ts'ai Shen [Wealth] > Tsan [Demons] > Ts'ang Chien [Hearth] > Tsao Shen [?] > Tsao-Wang [Hearth] > Tu [Earth] > Tung Wang Kung [Ruled Male Immortals] > T'u-ti (Ti-Ti) [Locality] > > Wang [Palace Door] > Wang-Mu-Niang-Niang [Guardian] > Wen Ch'ang (Wen-Chang-Ta-Ti) [Literature] > Wen-Shu Yen-K'ung [Manjushri] > Wen Pu [Epidemics] > Wu Ti [Myth] > > > Xian [spirits] > Xi-Wang-mu [immortality] > > Yama [seventh hell] > Yan-lo (Yan Wang) [underworld Prince] > Yao [Wind Conqueror] > Yao-shi-fo [Physician] > Yao Wang [Medicine] > Yeng-Wang-Yeh [Death] > Yen Wang (Yen Lo) [underworld Judge] > Yin and Yang [Male and Female] > Yo Fei [War] > Yu-Chiang [Ocean Winds] > Yu-di (Yu Huang) [supreme] > Yueh Fei [War] > Yu Huang (Yu-Huang-Shang-Ti) [High] > Yun T'ung [Clouds] > Yu-qiang [sea] > Yu Shih [Rain] > Yu-tzu [Rain] > > Zao Jun [Kitchen] > Zhang Guo-lao [immortal] > Zhong-Kui [Literature and Examinations] > Zhong-li Quan [immortal] > > [sources: Brief History of Ancient Chinese Mythology] > > > Finnish Gods: > > > Ahto [Water] > Akka [Harvest] > > Egres [Vegetation/Fertility] > > Hiisi [Forest/Evil] > > Ilma [Air] > Ilmarinen [sky] > Inmar [sky] > > Juma [sky] > Jumala (Mader-Atcha, Ukk) [Thunder+] > > Kalevanpojat [Demons] > Kalma [Death] > Kekri [Fertility Feast] > Kipu-Tytto [illness] > Kondos [sowing Crops] > Kuu [Moon] > > Lemminkainen [Hero] > Louhi [sorcery/Evil] > Loviatar [Disease] > Luonnotar [Creator] > > Madderakka [Dwarves] > Maahiset [Dwarves] > > Naaki [Water] > Nyrckes [?] > > Olmai (Olmay) [Divine properties] > > Pajainen [?] > Pajonn [Thunder] > Para [Goblin Like] > Pellonpekko [barley] > > Raudna [?] > Rutu [Devil] > > Sampsa [Vegetation] > Seides [stones] > > Rauni [?] > > Tapio [Forest] > Tiermes [Thunder] > Tuoni [underworld > Tursas [Monster] > > Ukko (Isainen) [Thunder] > > Vainamoinen [Hero] > Veralden-radien [World Pillars] > > Waralden Olmai [World] > > JAPANESE GODS > > > Aji-Suki-Taka-Hi-Kone (Aji-Shiki-Taka-Hiko-Ne) [Thunder] > Ama-No-Minakanushi-No-Kumi [Pole Star] > Ame-No-Oshido-Mimi [Refusal] > Ama-No-Uzume [Fertility] > Ama-Tsu-Kami [Heavenly Gods] > Amatsu Mikaboshi [Evil] > Ame-No-Hohi [Disappeared] > Ame-No-Wakahiko [Ruled Earth] > > Bimbo-Gami [Poverty] > Bishamon [War] > > Chimata-No-Kami [Rain/Sea] > > Daikoku [Wealth] > > Ebisu [Labor] > > Fuchi [Fire] > Fukurokuju (Fukuro kuju) [Wisdom] > Futsunushi [Lightening] > > Gozu-Tenno [Plague] > > Haya-Ji (Haya-Tsu-Muji-No-Kami) [Whirlwind] > Hikohohodemi [Hero] > Hinokagutsuchi [Fire] > Hiruko [Morning Sun] > Hoderi [?] > Hisa-Me [Devils] > Ho-Masubi (Kagu Zuchi) [Fire] > Hosuseri [?] > Hotei [Laughter] > > Inari [Prosperity] > Izanagi [Creator] > Izanami [Mother] > > Jikoku [Guardians] > Jimmu Tenno [Founder] > Jurojin (Jorojin) [Longevity] > > Kagu-tsuchi [Fire] > Kamado-gami [Hearth] > Kami [Divinities] > Kami-Musubi (Kami-mi-masubi) [?] > Kami-Nari [Thunder] > Kamui [sky] > Kappa [Water] > Kawa-No-Kami [Rivers] > Kishijoten [Luck] > Kishimojin [Demon] > Komoku [south] > Kompira [Wealth] > Kono-Hana-Sakuya-Hime (Kono-no-hana-saku-ya-hime) [?] > Kono-Hana-Sakuya-Hime Kuni-Toko-tachi [First] > Kuni-Tsu-Kami [Earth] > Kura-Okami [Rain/Snow] > > Nai-No-Kami [Earthquakes] > Naka-Yama-Tsu-Mi [Mountain Slopes] > Ningyo [Mermaid] > Ninigi [Ruler Earth] > > O-Kuni-Nushi (Okuninushi) [Medicine/Sorcery] > Onamuji [Earth] > Omiwa [Protective] > Oni [Demons] > O-Wata-Tsumi [sea] > O-Yama-Tsu-Mi (O-yama-tsuni) [Mountain] > > Raiden [Thunder] > Ryo-Wo [sea] > Ryujin (Ryugin) [Thunder/Rain] > > Sae-No-Kami [Roads] > > Sengen-Sama [Guarded Holy Moutain] > Sennin [immortals] > Shichi-Fukujin [Luck] > Shiko-Me [Devils] > Shine-Tsu-Hiko [Wind] > Shitatera-Hime [?] > Shi-tenno [Cardinal Direction Guardians] > Shojo [satyrs] > Soko-No-Kuni [underworld] > Suitengu [sea] > Sukuna-bikone (Suku-na-biko) [Hot Springs] > Shoki [Enemy of Devils] > Susanowo (Susanoo, Susa-no-wo) [storms] > Takamimusubi (Taka-mi-masubi) [Royal Family] > Takemikadzuchi [Thunder] > Take-Mi-Musubi [sun] > Taki-Tsu-Hiko [Rain] > Tatsuta-hime [Autumn] > Ten-gu (Tengu) [Mountain/Forest] > Tenjin (Temmangu) [Learning/Calligraphy] > Tsuki-Yomi (Tsukiyomi) [Moon] > > Uji-gami [Ancestors] > Uke-Mochi-No-Kami (Ukemochi, Waka-Uke-Nomi, Toyo-Uke-Bime) [Fertility and > Food] > Uzume [Mirth] > > Wakahiru-me [Rising Sun]\ > Wata-tsu-mi [sea] > > Yabune [House] > > Zocho [south] > > Shinto Amaterasu [sun] > > Ama-Tsu-Mara [smiths] > > Ame-No-Kagase-Wo [Astral] > Ame-No-Mi-Kumari-No-Kami [Water] > Amenominakanushi (Ame-No-Minaka-Nushi-No-Kami) [supreme] > Am-No-Tanabata-Hime-No-Mikoto [Weavers] > Ame-No-Toko-Tachi-No-Kami [Elemental] > Ame-no-uzume [Dancers] > > Benten (Benten-San, Benzaiten, Benzaiten) [Eloquence+] > > Fujin [Wind] > > Hachiman [War] > Ho-musubi [Fire] > > Kami [idols] > > SOUTH ASIAN GODS > > Cao Dai(Chinese: Gao-Tai) [supreme] > > Debata [?] > > Empung Luminuut [?] > > Hainuwele [?] > > Hananim [sky] > > Hmin [Ague] > > Karei [supreme] > Kinharingan [Creator] > Kud [Evil] > > Laseo [sun] > Lature Dano [supreme] > Lowalangi(Lowalani) [World Above] > > Mahatala (Mahataral) [supreme?] > Ma-zu [?] > > Nanmata (Namite) [Primeval] > Narbrooi [Woodlands] > Nemu [Primodial] > > Palk [sun] > Puang Matowa [sky] > Pulug [Thunder] > > Reahu [Dark Demon] > Rigenmucha [supreme] > > Silewe Nazarata [?] > Sirao [First] > > Ta Pedn [?] > Tnong [sun] > Tumbrenjak [Original Man] > > Upulevo [sun] > > Wunekau [sun] > > CENRAL AND WEST ASIAN GODS > > Abyrga [snake] > Afi [Rain/Thunderstorms] > Aitvaras [Evil] > Alardi [spirit] > Aralo [Agriculutre] > Armaz [supreme] > Auseklis (Ausrine) [stellar] > > Baba [spirit] > Baba Yaga (Jezi-Baba) [Ogress] > Bagvarti [?] > Bangputys [sea] > Bannik [baths] > Bagisht [Flood/Prosperity] > Barastir (Barastaer) [underworld] > Bardha [Elves] > Beg-tse (Cam-srin) [War] > Beng [satan] > Biegg-Olmai [Wind] > Bogatyri [Heroes] > Boldogasszony (Kisboldogasszony) [Protector Women/Children] > Bolla (Bullar) [Demon] > Buga [supreme] > Bukura e dheut > [Good Spirit] > Bukuri e qiellit [Jehovah] > Byelobog (Bielbog) [?] > Byelun [?] > > Chernobo(Czarnobog, Czerneboch, Cernobog) [?] > Chors [sun] > > Dabog [sun] > Deive [stone Spirits] > Dieva deli [?] > Dievini [Less Known Gods] > Dievs [sky] > Djall [Devil] > Domovoi (Domovoy) [Household] > Donbittir [Water/Fish] > Drag-gshed [Eight Terrible Gods] > Dud [Heavenly Spirit] > Dvorovoi [Courtyard] > Dyavo [Demons] > > En [?] > Erlik [King of the Dead] > Es [sky] > > Fatit [Destiny] > Fene [Demon] > > Gabija (Gabieta, Gabeta) [Fire] > Gabjauja [Corn] > Giltine [Death] > Guta [Demon] > > Hadur [War] > Himavat [Himalayas] > Horagalles [War] > > Isdustaya and Papaya [Fate] > Isten [supreme] > > Jagaubis [Fire] > Jarovit (Gerovitus) [War] > Jessis [avatar Jupiter] > Jumis [Fertility] > Juras Mate [Water] > > Kaka-Guia [Funerary] > Kalvis [smith] > Karta [Fate] > Kaukas [?] > Khors [Health/Hunting] > Khyung-gai mGo-can [?] > Kikimora [Household] > K'op'ala [Protective] > Kukuth (Kukudhi) [sickness] > Kulshedra (Kucedre) [Demon] > Kun-tu-bzan-po [Chief Bon] > Kupala [Water/Magic/Herbs] > Kurdalaegon [blacksmiths] > > Laima [Fate] > Lamaria [Hearth] > Laskowice (Leshcia) [Forest] > Lauka Mate [Fields/Fertility] > Laume [Fairy] > Leshy [Forest] > Lha [bon Gods] > Lhamo [?] > Ljeschi (Lychie) [Fauns and Satyrs] > Ljubi [Demon] > > Manzasiri [Primeval] > Mate [Mother] > Mati Syra Zemlya [Earth] > Medeine (Mejdejn) [Woods] > Meness [Moon] > Menulis [Moon] > Meza Mate [Nature] > Mirsa [Light] > Mokos [Fertility] > Mu (rMu) [Heavenly] > Muma Padura [Wood] > Myesyats (Czarnobog, Czerneboch, Cernobog) [Moon] > > Nang Lha [Household] > Nari [Demon] > Nari [sky] > Num [sky] > > Odqan [Fire] > Ora [Protective] > Ordog [Dark] > > Pekar (Pehar) [Demon] > Peko [barley] > Perendi [Jehovah] > Perit [Mountain Spirits] > Perkons [Thunder] > Perkunas [Thunder] > Perun (Peroun) [Thunder] > Polevik [Field] > Poludnitsa [Field] > Pon [sky] > Porenutius (Porevit) [?] > Preas Eyn [?] > Preas Eyssaur [Destructive] > Preas Prohm [Primeval] > > Prende (Prenne) [Love] > Psezpolnica (Polish Poludnica) [Midday] > Pugu [sun] > > Qormusta (Chormusta) [High] > > Rugievit [War] > Rusalki (Rusalka) [Water/Woodlands] > > Safa [Weapens] > Sanda [?] > Sarkany [Weather] > Saule [sun] > Saules meitas [?] > Selardi [Moon] > Shen-Lha-od-dkar [bon] > Shen-rab [Founder Bon] > Sipe Gyalmo [bon] > Shiwini [sun] > Shosshu [smiths] > Siwini [sun] > Srat [Demon] > Sri [Demon] > Sridevi [?] > Stribog [Winds] > Svantevit (Svantoveit, Svantovitus) [War/Agriculture] > Svarog [sky] > Syen [Guardian] > Stihi [Demon] > > Teljavelik [Heavenly Smith] > Telyaveli [smiths] > Tengri [Heavenly Beings] > Tesheba [Weather] > Thab-lha [Hearth] > Triglav (Trigelawus) [War] > > Uacilla [Thunder/Rain] > Ulgen [Creator] > Urme [Fate] > Usins [?] > > Vadatajs [Evil] > Vampire [soul of Dead] > Veela [Kindess] > Veja mate [Winds] > Veles (Volos) [underworld] > Velnias [Devil] > Velu mate [Dead] > Verbti [Fire/North Wind] > Vila [Water] > Vilkacis (Lithuanian Vilkatas) [Werewolf] > Vlkodlaks (Vookodlaks) [Werewolf] > Vodnik [Demon] > Vodyanoi [Water] > Volos (Volusu) [Cattle] > > We [supreme] > > Xhindi [spirits] > > Yarilo [Love] > > Zaltys [Grass Snake] > Zemepatis (Zemempatis) [supreme] > Zemes mate [Mother] > Zemyna (Zemyneles) [Earth] > Zorya [Guardian] > Zvezda Dennitsa and Zvezda Vechernyaya [Morning and Evening Star] > > > > SIBERIAN GODS > > Ai Tojon [Light] > Ajysyt [Mother] > Anky-Kele [sea] > Ayi [Creator] > > Hittavainen, Hittauanin [Hare-Hunters] > Hinkon [Death Demon] > > K'daai [Fire Demon] > Kaltes [The Goddess] > Ke'lets [Death Demon] > Kurkil [Creator] > Kutkinnaku [Good Spirit] > > Mayin [supreme] > > Picvu'cin [Hunting/Wild Animals] > > Shurdi [Thunderstorms] > > Tomam [bird] > Tomor(Tomorr) [Father Creator] > > Xucau [supreme] > > Ye'loje (Pugu) [sun] > > > > > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 On Feb 12, 9:25?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > ?Not even just one? > > > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one god > > > would make itself known. > > > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? > > Robert B. Winn > > Why, don't you have any evidence to offer? So you are maintaining that the Bible does not exist. Do you have anything to support your strange belief? Robert B. Winn Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 On Feb 12, 9:53�am, "Donna" <dow...@theriver.com> wrote: > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods actually Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 On Feb 12, 9:30�am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > On 12 Feb., 04:32, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Bill M Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1171308341.716814.166090@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 12, 9:25?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: >> On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: >> >> > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >> > > ?Not even just one? >> >> > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one god >> > > would make itself known. >> >> > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> Why, don't you have any evidence to offer? > > So you are maintaining that the Bible does not exist. Do you have > anything to support your strange belief? > Robert B. Winn > Get an education. The Bible is NOT objective verifiable evidence. It is purely the unproven opinions of many poorly educated ancient men of unknown and unverified veracity. The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the originals. And there is no evidence that even the originals are facts instead of fiction. Quote
Guest Bill M Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1171308517.634196.297340@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... On Feb 12, 9:30?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > On 12 Feb., 04:32, "Semper Libr" <nopolicesta...@freedom4all.org> > wrote: > > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > > > actually > > > exist. > > > What do you call resurrection? > > I would call it a story. Why, do you have any evidence that it is > more than that? > > > > > Then there's this.... and a lot more.... > > > The Anthropic Principle > > Are people still talking about that bit of silliness. Pathetic! Jesus Christ was resurrected. Robert B. Winn A totally unsubstantiated claim! Mythical stories form the ancient past are just that - myths and fables! Quote
Guest Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in news:1171293929.513174.145260@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com: > On Feb 12, 4:20�am, bill.m.tho...@gmail.com wrote: >> On Feb 12, 4:32 pm, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in news:1171292648.170953.150200@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com: > On Feb 11, 9:53?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> > On Feb 11, 3:20?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different >> > > God beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods >> > > actually exist. >> >> > > Quite the contrary, there is a wealth of positive objective >> > > verifiable evidence that no Gods actually exist. >> >> > > Objective evidence indicates the Universe is greater than 20 >> > > BILLION LIGHT YEARS in diameter. When you consider that light >> > > travels at 186,000 MILES PER SECOND the Universe is >> > > incomprehensible in size and by comparison, our World, is but a >> > > speck of dust in this vast Universe. >> >> > > The scientific evidence is that our World is over 4 BILLION YEARS >> > > old. Archaeological evidence is that man has existed on earth for >> > > approximately 100,000 years. When the various books of the Bible >> > > were written, most of mankind believed the world was flat and the >> > > Sun, Stars and Planets revolved around the Earth. Many believed >> > > that Christopher Columbus might sail to the edge of the earth, and >> > > might fall off, during his trip that discovered the new continent. >> >> > The question I have for you, Bill, is in measuring all of these huge >> > amounts of time, do you consider time to be relative or absolute? >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> Backs up against the wall again are we?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Your backs are always up against the wall. If you say absolute time, > then you agree with Isaac Newton's concept of the universe, which > scientists say they have discredited. If you say relative time, then > a day can be a billion years. Which do you prefer? > Robert B. Winn > > We will work with proper time. Which is near enough to the time used with respect to historical events. Klazmon. Quote
Guest Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in news:1171293511.193526.126780@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com: > On Feb 11, 9:57�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Bill M Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1171293511.193526.126780@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com... On Feb 11, 9:57?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > "Semper Libr" wrote: > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > > > actually > > > exist. >Well, suppose there had been some priests like the ones in your >fictional account? Use of true events in the pursuit of priestcraft >is always possible. We already know that everyone, including priests, >commit sin, with the exception of Jesus Christ. What priests do does >not affect the life and atonement of Jesus Christ. >Robert B. Winn The Jesus story is totally implausible. It is not supported by any solid objective verifiable evidence. Should we believe in a god for whom there is NO solid objective evidence? The evidence available is quite the contrary. It is totally implausible! This Jesus belief is based purely on faith in totally implausible stories, not factual objective verifiable evidence of any kind. The Bibles were written recopied and modified by hundreds of men of unknown veracity and honesty over a time span of several thousands years. There are NO ORIGINALS IN EXISTENCE. What ever the originals were have rotted and disappeared thousands of years ago. We don't know what the originals said. The Bibles are nothing more than a mixture of myths, fables, contradictions and impossible tales. There are 18 different versions alone of the English Bible interpretations. According to the Bibles, God supposedly created the heavens, the earth and everything in it in six days. Adam, the original man was created during this time from 'DUST'. His mate, Eve was created from one of Adam's RIBS. According to the Bibles this all powerful omnipotent God supposedly created this huge complex Universe in six days! This God supposedly came to earth over 2,000 years ago as a man named Jesus to save mankind from the sins that God himself created and to preach his wishes and commands. Archeological evidence indicates 'modern' man has existed approximately 100,000 years. Why did god wait all those years to come to earth to preach his word and pay for man's sins (which he himself created!)? This all powerful creator of this huge Universe supposedly came to Earth as a baby in a cold manger, in the middle of winter and was born of a virgin called Mary. Why would he choose to be born in such an ingenuous way? Arrogant humans had to make up a myth about a god arriving from the womb of another human. If Jesus was supposedly born of a Virgin Mary and she was the wife of Joseph, why was she still a virgin? Why did the women need to be married to a mortal in order to give birth to a god? And why couldn't this all powerful god creator just come to earth in what ever form he chose to create? He supposedly created the Universe and everything in it! If he could create Adam instantly from dust and Eve from a rib, why did he use this slow tortuous means to create himself as a god man on earth??? He supposedly grew up as a normal child and worked as a carpenter as an adult. There are no details in the Bibles about his younger years. After about THIRTY YEARS, he supposedly announced to the local inhabitants that he was Jesus the God savior from heaven to tell them God's wishes and commands. There are no significant records of Jesus', (the Christ) actual existence in the non religious documents of the era. Depending upon which Bible story you choose, it is claimed he preached his doctrines for less than one, two or three years. In any case, why put himself on earth for some thirty inconsequential years and only use a few of these years to preach his doctrines? And then not use his omnipotent power to preach to the WHOLE world instead of just a miniscule part of the world around Jerusalem? Jesus was baptized. In Christianity, baptism is the sacrament of regeneration and initiation into the Christian church. According to a theme of St. Paul the Apostle, baptism is death to a former life and the emergence of a new person, signified by the conferring of a new name; it is the total annulment of the sins of one's past, from which one emerges a totally innocent person. Then why would a 'God Jesus' need to be baptized? His sermons and teachings only reached a miniscule part of the world population at that time because he did not speak via the equivalent of International Radio or TV. IF he was an ALL powerful creator of the world, he certainly would have the ability to speak to ALL of mankind by means at least as effective as man. Why did this all powerful god creator wait 100,000 years to come and preach to only a very small segment of the world, for a very short period of time, (depending on which Bible you choose) and then leave us without ANY solid objective verifiable evidence of his existence, his wishes and commands? Why did he not preserve his teachings in some permanent form for all of mankind in the future? The Bibles were supposedly written by 56 or more authors of unknown veracity over a period of thousands of years. There are NO - NADA originals of any of the Bibles in existence. The originals have all rotted and disappeared thousands of years ago. They are all hand copies of copies etc. of unknown actual origin and veracity. Why would any omnipotent God, creator of this huge complex Universe, provide his message in such a sloppy, inaccurate, unreliable, questionable and confusing manor??? Why did he not use his great omnipotent powers to preach to the WHOLE world from his Heaven, instead of just preaching to an insignificant portion of the world?? Why did he leave most of mankind totally in the dark? He supposedly distributed his word via hand copied documents called the Bibles. Yet NONE of the Bibles were written during his 'claimed' time on earth. The original Bibles were written and hand recopied more than 1500 years before the invention of the printing press. There is no evidence that Jesus ever wrote a word. NO ORIGINAL copies of ANY of the Bibles exist. Why did he not preserve them? The Bibles now in existence are hand copies of copies etc. of unknown and doubtful veracity. They are largely myths, fables, hearsay and contradictory and implausible tales. The four books of the New Testament were written and copied somewhere between 60 and 200 years AFTER Jesus' supposed existence. None of the authors could have known him directly. They are all third person fictional narratives of unknown veracity. Why would a real god, creator of this huge Universe, not arrange for the creation of clear, authentic, contemporary and permanent copies of his word? During his brief adulthood, preaching his word, he is 'claimed' to have restored site to a few of the blind, restored mobility to a few of the crippled and restored health to a few of the sick. Why was he so niggardly about helping the poor, the disabled and the sick? Is this the likely conduct of an all loving God creator? After the brief period of time he preached, it only reached a very small part of the world's population. He did not avail himself of any communication means as effective as Radio, TV, Telephone or the Internet. He then allowed himself to be painfully and brutally crucified on a cross between two criminals to pay for man's sins (which he created). If he died on the cross to save mankind, why was mankind no better off after this supposed crucifixion than before? Was all this blood and gore for nothing?! The Roman courts were models of order and fairness. A man was not condemned without a trial; he was not handed to the executioner before being found guilty. And yet we are asked to believe that an innocent man was brought before a Roman court, where Pontius Pilate was Judge; that no charge of wrongdoing having been brought against him, the Judge declared that he found him innocent; but the mob shouted, "Crucify him; crucify him!" and to please the rabble, Pilate commanded that the man whom he had found innocent, should be delivered to the executioners to be crucified! Also, real criminals were crucified by being 'tied' to the cross - not nailed! What was the purpose of all this blood and gore? Why should any REAL god need to suffer for man's sins??? (which god created) Why was his life and crucifixion not in any of the numerous historical documents of the time??? Why is this only in church documents? If Jesus performed the wonderful miracles the New Testament describes, why did the people want him crucified? Is it not amazing that a civilized people would demand that a kind and loving man who went about doing good works, who preached forgiveness, cleansed the leprous, and raised the dead - that they could not be appeased until they had brutally crucified the noblest benefactor of mankind? This makes NO sense at all! If he could create the Universe and every thing in it, (including sin) why did he not just forgive man's sins, directly from his heaven, without all this blood and gore? Three days after he died he supposedly rose from the dead and returned to his heaven. Why did he wait uncomfortably in a crypt for three days after his death and internment to return to his magnificent heaven? Why did he wait 30 years!? How can an immortal god die? Jesus did not die for our sins. People are still praying to him in his supposed heaven! What was the logic and purpose of this gruesome and painful killing? Only a miniscule part of the world's population at the time would be aware of this claimed sacrifice. Billions of people today are still not knowledgeable believers of this highly implausible story. Why did he not preserve a video tape, DVD or other permanent record of this historic episode? If man is capable of these devices certainly a god creator should be equally or more proficient. Why did he not leave any 'authenticated' documents accurately substantiating his appearance? Why has he failed to communicate further for over 2,000 years? He supposedly went through this torture and humiliating death to pay for mans sins which he himself created! Why did he not just wave his wand and forgive mans sins and skip all the ridiculous blood and gore??? Why did he create sin in the first place? This should be no problem for a god that created Adam from dust and Eve from Adam's rib, and this immense Universe. Why do people supposedly still have the same sins that he died for? Why does he encourage or permit Christians to drink his blood and eat his flesh? Isn't this a pagan ritual? Why does he continue to allow thousands of greedy self serving men to deliver his word to his flock in such a vague, inconsistent, contradictory, and ineffectual manner? There are hundreds of different Christian sects and beliefs. There are thousands of different religious and god beliefs and practices. Why does he allow this gross confusion? Why does he not communicate clearly and DIRECTLY to his entire flock that he is the real god and all the others are fakes? It would be more responsible and more effective to eliminate this gross confusion? If he is the real god, why does he even permit the belief and propagation of thousands of false gods and false religions? The Christ tale is obviously not factual but pure myth and legend. The objective evidence is that God did not create man but quite the contrary; that man created Gods! Quote
Guest Donna Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1171308436.546205.137980@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... On Feb 12, 9:53?am, "Donna" <dow...@theriver.com> wrote: > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods actually > > > > > exist. > > Proof of God and Her Son will occur in the year 2009, in the > month of March. > > You have been warned so be prepared. > > DEM The day and the hour no man knoweth, no, not the angels in heaven, but my Father only. Robert B. Winn True, Mr. Winn, and my Father told me. Make a note of the month and year on a post-it and put it on a place where it won't get lost. March 17, 2009. DEM Quote
Guest The Chief Instigator Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 "Donna" <downby@theriver.com> writes: >"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message >news:1171308436.546205.137980@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >On Feb 12, 9:53?am, "Donna" <dow...@theriver.com> wrote: >> > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God >> > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods actually >> > > >> > exist. >> Proof of God and Her Son will occur in the year 2009, in the >> month of March. >> >> You have been warned so be prepared. >> >> DEM >The day and the hour no man knoweth, no, not the angels in heaven, but >my Father only. >Robert B. Winn >True, Mr. Winn, and my Father told me. Make a note of the month >and year on a post-it and put it on a place where it won't get lost. >March 17, 2009. > >DEM ....and you will be making an excuse on March 18. 2009, won't you? -- Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros) AA#2273 LAST GAME: Milwaukee 4, Houston 3 (February 11) NEXT GAME: Saturday, February 17 vs. Chicago, 7:35 Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On Feb 12, 2:49?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message > > news:1171308517.634196.297340@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 12, 9:30?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > > > > > > > On 12 Feb., 04:32, "Semper Libr" <nopolicesta...@freedom4all.org> > > wrote: > > > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > > > > actually > > > > exist. > > > > What do you call resurrection? > > > I would call it a story. Why, do you have any evidence that it is > > more than that? > > > > Then there's this.... and a lot more.... > > > > The Anthropic Principle > > > Are people still talking about that bit of silliness. Pathetic! > > Jesus Christ was resurrected. > Robert B. Winn > > A totally unsubstantiated claim! Mythical stories form the ancient past are > just that - myths and fables!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Sorry, but the one with myths is you. You cannot change history by saying it did not happen. Robert B. Winn Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On Feb 12, 4:30�pm, Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th <Klaz...@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote innews:1171293929.513174.145260@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com: > > > > > > > On Feb 12, 4:20�am, bill.m.tho...@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Feb 12, 4:32 pm, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On Feb 12, 4:31�pm, Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th <Klaz...@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote innews:1171292648.170953.150200@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com: > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 9:53?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > On Feb 11, 3:20?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different > >> > > God beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > >> > > actually exist. > > >> > > Quite the contrary, there is a wealth of positive objective > >> > > verifiable evidence that no Gods actually exist. > > >> > > Objective evidence indicates the Universe is greater than 20 > >> > > BILLION LIGHT YEARS in diameter. When you consider that light > >> > > travels at 186,000 MILES PER SECOND the Universe is > >> > > incomprehensible in size and by comparison, our World, is but a > >> > > speck of dust in this vast Universe. > > >> > > The scientific evidence is that our World is over 4 BILLION YEARS > >> > > old. Archaeological evidence is that man has existed on earth for > >> > > approximately 100,000 years. When the various books of the Bible > >> > > were written, most of mankind believed the world was flat and the > >> > > Sun, Stars and Planets revolved around the Earth. Many believed > >> > > that Christopher Columbus might sail to the edge of the earth, and > >> > > might fall off, during his trip that discovered the new continent. > > >> > The question I have for you, Bill, is in measuring all of these huge > >> > amounts of time, do you consider time to be relative or absolute? > >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> Backs up against the wall again are we?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Your backs are always up against the wall. Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Feb 11, 9:50�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Feb 11, 4:10�pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On Feb 12, 4:33�pm, Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th <Klaz...@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote innews:1171293511.193526.126780@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com: > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 9:57�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > >> "Semper Lib Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Feb 12, 2:49?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message > > > > news:1171308517.634196.297340@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > On Feb 12, 9:30?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Feb., 04:32, "Semper Libr" <nopolicesta...@freedom4all.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > > > > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > > > > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > > > > > actually > > > > > exist. > > > > > > What do you call resurrection? > > > > > I would call it a story. Why, do you have any evidence that it is > > > more than that? > > > > > > Then there's this.... and a lot more.... > > > > > > The Anthropic Principle > > > > > Are people still talking about that bit of silliness. Pathetic! > > > > Jesus Christ was resurrected. > > Robert B. Winn > > > > A totally unsubstantiated claim! Mythical stories form the ancient past are > > just that - myths and fables!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > Sorry, but the one with myths is you. You cannot change history by > saying it did not happen. > Robert B. Winn.... ....and you cannot, or refuse, to face facts. Who has the brains and inteligence ? You or Bill M ? Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Bill M wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message > news:1171308517.634196.297340@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 12, 9:30?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > > On 12 Feb., 04:32, "Semper Libr" <nopolicesta...@freedom4all.org> > > wrote: > > > > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > > > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > > > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > > > > actually > > > > exist. > > > > > What do you call resurrection? > > > > I would call it a story. Why, do you have any evidence that it is > > more than that? > > > > > > > > > Then there's this.... and a lot more.... > > > > > The Anthropic Principle > > > > Are people still talking about that bit of silliness. Pathetic! > > Jesus Christ was resurrected. > Robert B. Winn > > A totally unsubstantiated claim! Mythical stories form the ancient past are > just that - myths and fables! Yup - He rose again and ascended to heaven to sit by god the Father....... whatever........ [Heaven back then was just above the clouds where we now fly commercial aircraft !] Yet humans in the year 2007 still swallow this silly nonsense. Why? Because another human [very often their mother] told them to. Who wants to call their parents liars and deceivers? Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On Feb 12, 6:08�pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message > > news:1171293511.193526.126780@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 11, 9:57?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > > > "Semper Libr" wrote: > > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > > > > actually > > > > exist. > >Well, suppose there had been some priests like the ones in your > >fictional account? Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On Feb 12, 8:51�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Feb 11, 9:50�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Feb 11, 4:10�pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On Feb 12, 8:55�pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Feb 12, 2:49?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message > > > >news:1171308517.634196.297340@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > > On Feb 12, 9:30?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > > > > > On 12 Feb., 04:32, "Semper Libr" <nopolicesta...@freedom4all.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > > > > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > > > > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God > > > > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods > > > > > > actually > > > > > > exist. > > > > > > What do you call resurrection? > > > > > I would call it a story. Why, do you have any evidence that it is > > > > more than that? > > > > > > Then there's this.... and a lot more.... > > > > > > The Anthropic Principle > > > > > Are people still talking about that bit of silliness. Pathetic! > > > > Jesus Christ was resurrected. > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > A totally unsubstantiated claim! Mythical stories form the ancient past are > > > just that - myths and fables!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Sorry, but the one with myths is you. Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Feb 12, 9:25?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > > On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > ?Not even just one? > > > > > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one god > > > > would make itself known. > > > > > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > Why, don't you have any evidence to offer? > > So you are maintaining that the Bible does not exist. Do you have > anything to support your strange belief? > Robert B. Winn Of course it exists, so do Aesop's Fables and the Greek Myths Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On 12 Feb 2007 20:09:32 -0800, in alt.atheism "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in <1171339772.765000.308420@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>: >On Feb 12, 8:51?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> > On Feb 11, 9:50?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> > > rbwinn wrote: >> > > > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> > > > > �ot even just one? >> >> > > > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at least one god >> > > > > would make itself known. >> >> > > > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >> > > > Robert B. Winn >> >> > > Where WOULD yuo people be without your old book of fables and myths. >> >> > > Does it never filter through to your brains and past your eye blinkers >> > > [blinders] that is exactly what they are? >> >> > > Here's a few other man inspired and produced books: >> >> > We were discussing the Bible. �hy did you want to change the >> > subject? �ow the Bible says, For God so loved the world that he sent >> > his only Begotten Son. >> > Jesus Christ said that he was the Son of God. >> > Why are you saying that God did not make himself known? >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> Because these were simply mythical stories written by near primitives who were >> bored to tears every night with no radio or TV - all they listened to were >> yarns around the evening camp fire told by wandering preachers. >> >> The more 'miraculous' his stories were the more free food he got and no doubt, >> an extra drop of wine as well. >> >> Nothing changes does it - now the 'story tellers' (ave personal jets and fly >> around the world presenting 'rigged' miracles to packed audiences of >> thousands..... >> >> Bob >> Humanist Brit. >> >> If priests had not been fond of mutton, lambs never would have been sacrified >> to god. Nothing was ever carried to the temple that the priest could not use, >> and it always happened that god wanted what his agents liked." >> [Robert G. Ingersoll] >> >> As the caterpiller chooses the fairest leaves to lay her eggs on, so the >> priest lays his curse on the fairest joys. >> [William Blake]- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >Well, of course, you are welcome to your own opinion. Why don't you >explain your ideas to Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth? Because we aren't smug gits like you. We haven't already judged ourselves and decided that we passed and that everyone who disagrees with us will go to hell. Of course, I think you made it all up with your personal interpretation of the Bible, so I don't really care what you do. However much I might be satisfied with the result, I know that no one is going to send you to hell for being self-righteous. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 On 12 Feb 2007 20:05:06 -0800, in alt.atheism "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in <1171339506.590917.210830@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>: >On Feb 12, 6:08?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1171293511.193526.126780@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com... >> On Feb 11, 9:57?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> >> > "Semper Libr" wrote: >> > > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >> > >news:XzMzh.4236$6a.3198@bignews4.bellsouth.net... >> > > > It is interesting to observe that there are thousands of different God >> > > > beliefs but NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE ANY of these Gods >> > > > actually >> > > > exist. >> >Well, suppose there had been some priests like the ones in your >> >fictional account? �se of true events in the pursuit of priestcraft >> >is always possible. We already know that everyone, including priests, >> >commit sin, with the exception of Jesus Christ. What priests do does >> >not affect the life and atonement of Jesus Christ. >> >Robert B. Winn >> >> The Jesus story is totally implausible. It is not supported by any solid >> objective verifiable evidence. Should we believe in a god for whom there is >> NO solid objective evidence? The evidence available is quite the contrary. >> It is totally implausible! This Jesus belief is based purely on faith in >> totally implausible stories, not factual objective verifiable evidence of >> any kind. >> >> The Bibles were written recopied and modified by hundreds of men of unknown >> veracity and honesty over a time span of several thousands years. There are >> NO ORIGINALS IN EXISTENCE. What ever the originals were have rotted and >> disappeared thousands of years ago. We don't know what the originals said. >> >> The Bibles are nothing more than a mixture of myths, fables, contradictions >> and impossible tales. There are 18 different versions alone of the English >> Bible interpretations. >> >> According to the Bibles, God supposedly created the heavens, the earth and >> everything in it in six days. Adam, the original man was created during this >> time from 'DUST'. His mate, Eve was created from one of Adam's RIBS. >> >> According to the Bibles this all powerful omnipotent God supposedly created >> this huge complex Universe in six days! >> >> This God supposedly came to earth over 2,000 years ago as a man named Jesus >> to save mankind from the sins that God himself created and to preach his >> wishes and commands. Archeological evidence indicates 'modern' man has >> existed approximately 100,000 years. Why did god wait all those years to >> come to earth to preach his word and pay for man's sins (which he himself >> created!)? >> >> This all powerful creator of this huge Universe supposedly came to Earth as >> a baby in a cold manger, in the middle of winter and was born of a virgin >> called Mary. Why would he choose to be born in such an ingenuous way? >> Arrogant humans had to make up a myth >> about a god arriving from the womb of another human. >> >> If Jesus was supposedly born of a Virgin Mary and she was the wife of >> Joseph, why was she still a virgin? Why did the women need to be married to >> a mortal in order to give birth to a god? And why couldn't this all powerful >> god creator just come to earth in what ever form he chose to create? He >> supposedly created the Universe and everything in it! >> >> If he could create Adam instantly from dust and Eve from a rib, why did he >> use this slow tortuous means to create himself as a god man on earth??? >> >> He supposedly grew up as a normal child and worked as a carpenter as an >> adult. There are no details in the Bibles about his younger years. After >> about THIRTY YEARS, he 3upposedly announced to the local inhabitants that >> he was Jesus the God savior from heaven to tell them God's wishes and >> commands. >> >> There are no significant records of Jesus', (the Christ) actual existence in >> the non religious documents of the era. Depending upon which Bible story you >> choose, it is claimed he preached his doctrines for less than one, two or >> three years. In any case, why put himself on earth for some thirty >> inconsequential years and only use a few of these years to preach his >> doctrines? And then not use his omnipotent power to preach to the WHOLE >> world instead of just a miniscule part of the world around Jerusalem? >> >> Jesus was baptized. In Christianity, baptism is the sacrament of >> regeneration and initiation into the Christian church. ccording to a theme >> of St. Paul the Apostle, baptism is death to a former life and the emergence >> of a new person, signified by the conferring of a new name; it is the total >> annulment of the sins of one's past, from which one emerges a totally >> innocent person. Then why would a 'God Jesus' need to be baptized? >> >> His sermons and teachings only reached a miniscule part of the world >> population at that time because he did not speak via the equivalent of >> International Radio or TV. IF he was an ALL powerful creator of the world, >> he certainly would have the ability to speak to ALL of mankind by means at >> least as effective as man. Why did this all powerful god creator wait >> 100,000 years to come and preach to only a very small segment of the world, >> for a very short period of time, (depending on which Bible you choose) and >> then leave us without ANY solid objective verifiable evidence of his >> existence, his wishes and commands? Why did he not preserve his teachings in >> some permanent form for all of mankind in the future? The Bibles were >> supposedly written by 56 or more authors of unknown veracity over a period >> of thousands of years. There are NO - NADA originals of any of the Bibles in >> existence. The originals have all rotted and disappeared thousands of years >> ago. �hey are all hand copies of copies etc. of unknown actual origin and >> veracity. >> >> Why would any omnipotent God, creator of this huge complex Universe, provide >> his message in such a sloppy, inaccurate, unreliable, questionable and >> confusing manor??? >> >> Why did he not use his great omnipotent powers to preach to the WHOLE world >> from his Heaven, instead of just preaching to an insignificant portion of >> the world?? Why did he leave most of mankind totally in the dark? >> >> He supposedly distributed his word via hand copied documents called the >> Bibles. Yet NONE of the Bibles were written during his 'claimed' time on >> earth. The original Bibles were written and hand recopied more than 1500 >> years before the invention of the printing press. There is no evidence that >> Jesus ever wrote a word. NO ORIGINAL copies of ANY of the Bibles exist. Why >> did he not preserve them? The Bibles now in existence are hand copies of >> copies etc. of unknown and doubtful veracity. They are largely myths, >> fables, hearsay and contradictory and implausible tales. The four books of >> the New Testament were written and copied somewhere between 60 and 200 years >> AFTER Jesus' supposed existence. None of the authors could have known him >> directly. They are all third person fictional narratives of unknown >> veracity. Why would a real god, creator of this huge Universe, not arrange >> for the creation of clear, authentic, contemporary and permanent copies of >> his word? >> >> During his brief adulthood, preaching his word, he is 'claimed' to have >> restored site to a few of the blind, restored mobility to a few of the >> crippled and restored health to a few of the sick. Why was he so niggardly >> about helping the poor, the disabled and the sick? Is this the likely >> conduct of an all loving God creator? >> >> After the brief period of time he preached, it only reached a very small >> part of the world's population. He did not avail himself of any >> communication means as effective as Radio, TV, Telephone or the Internet. He >> then allowed himself to be painfully and brutally crucified on a cross >> between two criminals to pay for man's sins (which he created). f he died >> on the cross to save mankind, why was mankind no better off after this >> supposed crucifixion than before? Was all this blood and gore for nothing?! >> >> The Roman courts were models of order and fairness. A man was not condemned >> without a trial; he was not handed to the executioner before being found >> guilty. And yet we are asked to believe that an innocent man was brought >> before a Roman court, where Pontius Pilate was Judge; that no charge of >> wrongdoing having been brought against him, the Judge declared that he found >> him innocent; but the mob shouted, "Crucify him; crucify him!" and to please >> the rabble, Pilate commanded that the man whom he had found innocent, should >> be delivered to the executioners to be crucified! Also, real criminals were >> crucified by being 'tied' to the cross - not nailed! What was the purpose of >> all this blood and gore? Why should any REAL god need to suffer for man's >> sins??? (which god created) >> >> Why was his life and crucifixion not in any of the numerous historical >> documents of the time??? Why is this only in church documents? >> >> If Jesus performed the wonderful miracles the New Testament describes, why >> did the people want him crucified? Is it not amazing that a civilized people >> would demand that a kind and loving man who went about doing good works, who >> preached forgiveness, cleansed the leprous, and raised the dead - that they >> could not be appeased until they had brutally crucified the noblest >> benefactor of mankind? This makes NO sense at all! >> >> If he could create the Universe and every thing in it, (including sin) why >> did he not just forgive man's sins, directly from his heaven, without all >> this blood and gore? Three days after he died he supposedly rose from the >> dead and returned to his heaven. Why did he wait uncomfortably in a crypt >> for three days after his death and internment to return to his magnificent >> heaven? �hy did he wait 30 years!? How can an immortal god die? >esus did >> not die for our sins. People are still praying to him in his supposed >> heaven! >> >> What was the logic and purpose of this gruesome and painful killing? Only a >> miniscule part of the world's population at the time would be aware of this >> claimed sacrifice. >> >> Billions of people today are still not knowledgeable believers of this >> highly implausible story. Why did he not preserve a video tape, DVD or other >> permanent record of this historic episode? If man is capable of these >> devices certainly a god creator should be equally or more proficient. >> >> Why did he not leave any 'authenticated' documents accurately substantiating >> his appearance? Why has he failed to communicate further for over 2,000 >> years? >> >> He supposedly went through this torture and humiliating death to pay for >> mans sins which he himself created! �hy did he not just wave his wand and >> forgive mans sins and skip all the ridiculous blood and gore??? Why did he >> create sin in the first place? This should be no problem for a god that >> created Adam from dust and Eve from Adam's rib, and this immense Universe. >> Why do people supposedly still have the same sins that he died for? >> >> Why does he encourage or permit Christians to drink his blood and eat his >> flesh? Isn't this a pagan ritual? >> >> Why does he continue to allow thousands of greedy self serving men to >> deliver his word to his flock in such a vague, inconsistent, contradictory, >> and ineffectual manner? There are hundreds of different Christian sects and >> beliefs. There are thousands of different religious and god beliefs and >> practices. Why does he allow this gross confusion? Why does he not >> communicate clearly and DIRECTLY to his entire flock that he is the real god >> and all the others are fakes? t would be more responsible and more >> effective to eliminate this gross confusion? >> >> If he is the real god, why does he even permit the belief and propagation of >> thousands of false gods and false religions? >> >> The Christ tale is obviously not factual but pure myth and legend. >> >> The objective evidence is that God did not create man but quite the >> contrary; that man created Gods! > >Well, what I think you should do is explain your idea to Jesus Christ >when he returns to judge the earth. You missed the punchline of the story while you spent so much time congratulating yourself that you were not like others. Quote
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