Guest Dan@V.A. Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message news:53u3faF1tpf96U1@mid.individual.net... > After serious contemplation, on or about Monday 19 February 2007 11:45 > am Dan@V.A. perhaps from danW@bellsouth.net wrote: > Yes, this is true. > Dan Wood, DDS > > > > > > > > It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups > > with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the > > Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. > > IE _the hope that there is no God. > > Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of > > their own positions in respect to God and religion. > > If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why does it matter > > to them? Why is it their concern if Christians believe that God > > exist? How is this any business of theirs? If they believe there > > is no God, fine it's their right. But Christians have the same right. > > > > I know they like to pretend that Christians try to shove their > > religion down their throats, this somehow in their minds justifies > > their attacks on Christians, but this is impossible to force > > conversion and futile even if it were for the simple reason it would > > not be an honest sincere conversion. You can lead a horse to water but > > you cannot force him to drink. > >> > > Is it possible that these people are unhappy themselves, so it > > galls them to recognize the satisfaction that religious people feel > > and express because of their religious faith. > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message > >> > > >> > >news:1171435012.693634.303310@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > >> > > > On 13 Feb., 22:47, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > > "Semper Lib Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Dan@V.A. wrote: > It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups > with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the > Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. > IE _the hope that there is no God. Dan, please apply that train of thought to religious missionaries that go out into areas where their beliefs are strange and mistrusted, essentially an attack of the indigenous belief structure of the people that minister to. So Christian missionaries are out there only because they hope there is a god. It is an expression of their doubt? > Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of > their own positions in respect to God and religion. Likewise Christian missionaries? > If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why does it matter > to them? Why is it their concern if Christians believe that God > exist? How is this any business of theirs? If they believe there > is no God, fine it's their right. But Christians have the same right. > > I know they like to pretend that Christians try to shove their religion > down their throats, this somehow in their minds justifies their attacks > on Christians, but this is impossible to force conversion and futile > even if it were for the simple reason it would not be an honest > sincere conversion. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot > force him to drink. But atheists get tired of being "lead to the water" over and over. It is not the water that is the problem, but the incessant "leading". > Is it possible that these people are unhappy themselves, so it > galls them to recognize the satisfaction that religious people feel > and express because of their religious faith. Perhaps. But have you seriously considered any other possibilities? Perhaps they feel a great sadness that so many of their fellow men are living a dangerous delusion. Isn't this what really motivates Christian missionaries? Atheists who "invade" Christian or other religious forums may have just as good and positive motivations as any Christian missionary. They are bringing what to their minds is truth. I would think you could appreciate their motivation. > Dan > Quote
Guest Dan@V.A. Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message news:2KednRE7E4QGR0TYnZ2dnUVZ_qCmnZ2d@comcast.com... > Dan@V.A. wrote: > > It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups > > with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the > > Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. > > IE _the hope that there is no God. > > Dan, please apply that train of thought to religious > missionaries that go out into areas where their beliefs are > strange and mistrusted, essentially an attack of the > indigenous belief structure of the people that minister to. > So Christian missionaries are out there only because they > hope there is a god. It is an expression of their doubt? > I would say that doubt is something we all live with at times. > > > Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of > > their own positions in respect to God and religion. > > Likewise Christian missionaries? > My wife and I recently entertained two Mormon missionaries. I did not see any doubt in them. They were trying to win converts to one Joseph Smith, their prophet, seer and revelator - the American Mohammed. We are also frequently called upon by Jehovas Witnesses, but no one else. These are fringe groups, not mainstream Christanity. So I doubt American Atheist are bothered by triditiona; Christian missionaries. > > > If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why does it matter > > to them? Why is it their concern if Christians believe that God > > exist? How is this any business of theirs? If they believe there > > is no God, fine it's their right. But Christians have the same right. > > > > I know they like to pretend that Christians try to shove their religion > > down their throats, this somehow in their minds justifies their attacks > > on Christians, but this is impossible to force conversion and futile > > even if it were for the simple reason it would not be an honest > > sincere conversion. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot > > force him to drink. > > But atheists get tired of being "lead to the water" over and > over. It is not the water that is the problem, but the > incessant "leading". > You don't have to go. You don't have to follow. > > > Is it possible that these people are unhappy themselves, so it > > galls them to recognize the satisfaction that religious people feel > > and express because of their religious faith. > > Perhaps. But have you seriously considered any other > possibilities? Perhaps they feel a great sadness that so > many of their fellow men are living a dangerous delusion. > Isn't this what really motivates Christian missionaries? > Atheists who "invade" Christian or other religious forums > may have just as good and positive motivations as any > Christian missionary. They are bringing what to their minds > is truth. I would think you could appreciate their > motivation. > To a large extent, I'm speaking from personal experience from the time I was an agnostic with serious doubts. I don't think I was ever an atheist. The happiness I saw in religious people galled me. I resented their satisifaction and wanted to deprive them when I could. Dan Wood > > > Dan > > Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Dan@V.A. wrote: > "Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message > news:53u3faF1tpf96U1@mid.individual.net... >> The only problem with your diatribe is that it is not atheists going to >> the Christian newsgroups and posting but rather rabid Christians coming >> to alt.atheism and starting a thread and the same rabid Christians make >> sure their article is crossposted to those religious groups. Since >> readers of alt.atheism have no idea where the original poster >> originated (nor subsequent replies) the headers are usually left >> intact. >> >> Since your original premise is wrong your entire argument fails. >> Atheists might be conserned because people are already brainwashed with >> the religious bullfeathers and feel it important to correct the >> falsehoods. You might notice that many of the atheists on alt.atheism >> know infinitely more about scripture and the history of early >> Christianity than those posing as True Believers (as Eric Hoffer would >> use the designation). >> >> -- >> Later, >> Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com > Yes, this is true. > Dan Wood, DDS Dan, you seem like a serious guy, more interested in discussion than flame wars. So here is a little free advice to improve the effect of your posts that you didn't ask for: It has been a Usenet (the system that distributes these messages) convention, for a very long time, to clip out all extraneous verbiage, not required as reminder context for the latest post to make sense, and to post below what you are responding to, so that some sense of a conversation is maintained. These conventions reflect the broad readership and long archiving of Usenet posts, rather than the one to one, more immediate situation you have with email. I have done this to your last message (clipped earlier material and moved your response below Darrell's), so you can compare it to your last post, to this so you might see that these two small details are worth attending to. Thank you for your consideration. John Popelish Quote
Guest Dan@V.A. Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message news:FsidndN3efiifkTYnZ2dnUVZ_q2pnZ2d@comcast.com... > Dan@V.A. wrote: > > "Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message > > news:53u3faF1tpf96U1@mid.individual.net... > > >> The only problem with your diatribe is that it is not atheists going to > >> the Christian newsgroups and posting but rather rabid Christians coming > >> to alt.atheism and starting a thread and the same rabid Christians make > >> sure their article is crossposted to those religious groups. Since > >> readers of alt.atheism have no idea where the original poster > >> originated (nor subsequent replies) the headers are usually left > >> intact. > >> > >> Since your original premise is wrong your entire argument fails. > >> Atheists might be conserned because people are already brainwashed with > >> the religious bullfeathers and feel it important to correct the > >> falsehoods. You might notice that many of the atheists on alt.atheism > >> know infinitely more about scripture and the history of early > >> Christianity than those posing as True Believers (as Eric Hoffer would > >> use the designation). > >> > >> -- > >> Later, > >> Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com > > > Yes, this is true. > > Dan Wood, DDS > > Dan, you seem like a serious guy, more interested in > discussion than flame wars. > Yes, I've attempted this for some time without much success. > So here is a little free advice > to improve the effect of your posts that you didn't ask for: > > It has been a Usenet (the system that distributes these > messages) convention, for a very long time, to clip out all > extraneous verbiage, not required as reminder context for > the latest post to make sense, and to post below what you > are responding to, so that some sense of a conversation is > maintained. > The problem is threads seem to evolve over time to entirely diferent messages. > These conventions reflect the broad readership > and long archiving of Usenet posts, rather than the one to > one, more immediate situation you have with email. > > I have done this to your last message (clipped earlier > material and moved your response below Darrell's), so you > can compare it to your last post, to this so you might see > that these two small details are worth attending to. > > Thank you for your consideration. > Thank you and thanks for the advice. Dan Wood, DDS > > John Popelish Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Dan@V.A. wrote: > "John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message > news:2KednRE7E4QGR0TYnZ2dnUVZ_qCmnZ2d@comcast.com... >> Dan@V.A. wrote: >>> It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups >>> with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the >>> Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. >>> IE _the hope that there is no God. >> Dan, please apply that train of thought to religious >> missionaries that go out into areas where their beliefs are >> strange and mistrusted, essentially an attack of the >> indigenous belief structure of the people that minister to. >> So Christian missionaries are out there only because they >> hope there is a god. It is an expression of their doubt? >> > I would say that doubt is something we all live with at times. >>> Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of >>> their own positions in respect to God and religion. >> Likewise Christian missionaries? Yet, you see an atheists "missionary" attempts as an expression of doubt. Seems like a double standard. > My wife and I recently entertained two Mormon missionaries. > I did not see any doubt in them. And, yet, when you see an atheist trying to be persuasive about their stance on religion, you don't see a search for truth, but an expression of doubt. > They were trying to win converts to one Joseph Smith, their > prophet, seer and revelator - the American Mohammed. > We are also frequently called upon by Jehovas Witnesses, > but no one else. These are fringe groups, not mainstream > Christanity. So I doubt American Atheist are bothered > by triditiona; Christian missionaries. Atheists are bothered by the intrusion of religious belief almost every day. For example, my money has an expression of religious faith printed on it by my government, as if it is speaking for me. If I use that money without complaint or objection is I am essentially being dishonest. I don't like being coerced into being dishonest. >> But atheists get tired of being "lead to the water" over and >> over. It is not the water that is the problem, but the >> incessant "leading". >> > You don't have to go. You don't have to follow. I agree. I can politely disagree and decline, just as you can do when an atheist tries to lead you out of your delusions. And I generally do just that, until they get pushy. >> Perhaps. But have you seriously considered any other >> possibilities? Perhaps they feel a great sadness that so >> many of their fellow men are living a dangerous delusion. >> Isn't this what really motivates Christian missionaries? >> Atheists who "invade" Christian or other religious forums >> may have just as good and positive motivations as any >> Christian missionary. They are bringing what to their minds >> is truth. I would think you could appreciate their >> motivation. >> > To a large extent, I'm speaking from personal experience from > the time I was an agnostic with serious doubts. I don't think I > was ever an atheist. The happiness I saw in religious people > galled me. I resented their satisifaction and wanted to deprive > them when I could. You describe resentment that is foreign to me. I see lots of expressions of contentment and satisfaction with religious experience and also high divorce rates, child abuse, smugness, superiority complexes and all sorts of other none enviable aspects of religious belief. I cannot muster envy of smug claims of satisfaction that do not ring true. John Popelish Quote
Guest jl Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Feb 19, 11:45 am, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups > with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the > Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. > IE _the hope that there is no God. I can't speak for all atheists. But for me, religion (especially abrahamic religion) is toxic to peace, children, science, stem cell research, democracy, reproductive privacy, peace, sexual preference, and the environment. The majority of religious people have no love for the Bill of Rights. Not to speak of any knowledge or understanding of the Bill of Rights, or the reasoning by which it was drafted and enacted by freethinking Founders. "This is a Christian nation, remember?" So you say. Religion reveals a bloody history and, given a foothold like it has now seized here in the USA, it will move toward theocracy, 100% guaranteed, and lie its way against constitutional principles with all the ruthless semantic tricks of Orwell's Ingsoc. Just as it is now doing with fascist evangelicals like George Bush and Alberto Gonzales in Washington and insolent little priests Clarence Thomas, Antonio Scalia, Sam Alito, and John Roberts, already litmus-tested to overturn Roe and Everson, on the Supreme Court. I will fight this poison as long as I live. Notice the trend. Today right-wing presidential candidate, John McCain, declared he wants Roe v. Wade overturned, and last week Mitt Romney, who was once pro-choice, announced he wants Roe overturned too. These efforts are rooted in nothing but religious intolerance and meddling, despite a majority of Americans who are pro-choice. Religion is poison. It poisons all rational discourse, all life and decency. It erodes truth and erects lies in its place. Therefore, I will denounce it every chance I get. My innate sense of reasoning and decades and decades of experience tell me there is no god. Don't afflict my children and the other children of the world with your poisonous superstitions. Quote
Guest Dan@V.A. Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message news:Za6dnScGA9ood0TYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d@comcast.com... > Dan@V.A. wrote: > > "John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message > > news:2KednRE7E4QGR0TYnZ2dnUVZ_qCmnZ2d@comcast.com... > >> Dan@V.A. wrote: > >>> It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups > >>> with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the > >>> Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. > >>> IE _the hope that there is no God. > >> Dan, please apply that train of thought to religious > >> missionaries that go out into areas where their beliefs are > >> strange and mistrusted, essentially an attack of the > >> indigenous belief structure of the people that minister to. > >> So Christian missionaries are out there only because they > >> hope there is a god. It is an expression of their doubt? > >> > > I would say that doubt is something we all live with at times. > >>> Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of > >>> their own positions in respect to God and religion. > >> Likewise Christian missionaries? > > Yet, you see an atheists "missionary" attempts as an > expression of doubt. Seems like a double standard. > > > My wife and I recently entertained two Mormon missionaries. > > I did not see any doubt in them. > > And, yet, when you see an atheist trying to be persuasive > about their stance on religion, you don't see a search for > truth, but an expression of doubt. > > > They were trying to win converts to one Joseph Smith, their > > prophet, seer and revelator - the American Mohammed. > > We are also frequently called upon by Jehovas Witnesses, > > but no one else. These are fringe groups, not mainstream > > Christanity. So I doubt American Atheist are bothered > > by triditiona; Christian missionaries. > > Atheists are bothered by the intrusion of religious belief > almost every day. For example, my money has an expression > of religious faith printed on it by my government, as if it > is speaking for me. If I use that money without complaint > or objection is I am essentially being dishonest. I don't > like being coerced into being dishonest. > I can see this as a conflict of interest. It never bothered me even when I considered myself agnostic. If you do, I sorry. I agree it should not be printed on US monies. > > >> But atheists get tired of being "lead to the water" over and > >> over. It is not the water that is the problem, but the > >> incessant "leading". > >> > > You don't have to go. You don't have to follow. > > I agree. I can politely disagree and decline, just as you > can do when an atheist tries to lead you out of your > delusions. And I generally do just that, until they get pushy. > Delusions? It's amazing that atheist can absolutely without any reservation at all what-so-ever, somehow claim to _know_ there is no god and that its all delusions. This is a claim. A claim that has yet to be proven. > > > >> Perhaps. But have you seriously considered any other > >> possibilities? Perhaps they feel a great sadness that so > >> many of their fellow men are living a dangerous delusion. > >> Isn't this what really motivates Christian missionaries? > >> Atheists who "invade" Christian or other religious forums > >> may have just as good and positive motivations as any > >> Christian missionary. They are bringing what to their minds > >> is truth. I would think you could appreciate their > >> motivation. > >> > > To a large extent, I'm speaking from personal experience from > > the time I was an agnostic with serious doubts. I don't think I > > was ever an atheist. The happiness I saw in religious people > > galled me. I resented their satisifaction and wanted to deprive > > them when I could. > > You describe resentment that is foreign to me. I see lots > of expressions of contentment and satisfaction with > religious experience and also high divorce rates, child > abuse, smugness, superiority complexes and all sorts of > other none enviable aspects of religious belief. I cannot > muster envy of smug claims of satisfaction that do not ring > true. > Divorce rate, child abuse etc are not the properity of the religious. Dan > > John Popelish Quote
Guest Dan@V.A. Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "jl" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:1171910200.716532.183820@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 19, 11:45 am, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups > > with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the > > Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. > > IE _the hope that there is no God. > > I can't speak for all atheists. But for me, religion (especially > abrahamic religion) is toxic to peace, children, science, stem cell > research, democracy, reproductive privacy, peace, sexual preference, > and the environment. The majority of religious people have no love > for the Bill of Rights. Not to speak of any knowledge or > understanding of the Bill of Rights, or the reasoning by which it was > drafted and enacted by freethinking Founders. > > "This is a Christian nation, remember?" So you say. > > Religion reveals a bloody history and, given a foothold like it has > now seized here in the USA, it will move toward theocracy, 100% > guaranteed, and lie its way against constitutional principles with all > the ruthless semantic tricks of Orwell's Ingsoc. Just as it is now > doing with fascist evangelicals like George Bush and Alberto Gonzales > in Washington and insolent little priests Clarence Thomas, Antonio > Scalia, Sam Alito, and John Roberts, already litmus-tested to overturn > Roe and Everson, on the Supreme Court. > > I will fight this poison as long as I live. > > Notice the trend. Today right-wing presidential candidate, John > McCain, declared he wants Roe v. Wade overturned, and last week Mitt > Romney, who was once pro-choice, announced he wants Roe overturned > too. These efforts are rooted in nothing but religious intolerance > and meddling, despite a majority of Americans who are pro-choice. > > Religion is poison. It poisons all rational discourse, all life and > decency. It erodes truth and erects lies in its place. Therefore, I > will denounce it every chance I get. > > My innate sense of reasoning and decades and decades of experience > tell me there is no god. Don't afflict my children and the other > children of the world with your poisonous superstitions. > If I had the same misconceptions, fallen victim to secularist propaganda. I would be an atheist too. Do your own research and not just a one-sided search designed to support your opinion. Dan Wood > Quote
Guest jl Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Feb 19, 2:15 pm, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > "John Popelish" <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote in message > > news:Za6dnScGA9ood0TYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d@comcast.com... > > > > > D...@V.A. wrote: > > > "John Popelish" <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote in message > > >news:2KednRE7E4QGR0TYnZ2dnUVZ_qCmnZ2d@comcast.com... > > >> D...@V.A. wrote: > > >>> It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups > > >>> with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the > > >>> Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. > > >>> IE _the hope that there is no God. > > >> Dan, please apply that train of thought to religious > > >> missionaries that go out into areas where their beliefs are > > >> strange and mistrusted, essentially an attack of the > > >> indigenous belief structure of the people that minister to. > > >> So Christian missionaries are out there only because they > > >> hope there is a god. It is an expression of their doubt? > > > > I would say that doubt is something we all live with at times. > > >>> Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of > > >>> their own positions in respect to God and religion. > > >> Likewise Christian missionaries? > > > Yet, you see an atheists "missionary" attempts as an > > expression of doubt. Seems like a double standard. > > > > My wife and I recently entertained two Mormon missionaries. > > > I did not see any doubt in them. > > > And, yet, when you see an atheist trying to be persuasive > > about their stance on religion, you don't see a search for > > truth, but an expression of doubt. > > > > They were trying to win converts to one Joseph Smith, their > > > prophet, seer and revelator - the American Mohammed. > > > We are also frequently called upon by Jehovas Witnesses, > > > but no one else. These are fringe groups, not mainstream > > > Christanity. So I doubt American Atheist are bothered > > > by triditiona; Christian missionaries. > > > Atheists are bothered by the intrusion of religious belief > > almost every day. For example, my money has an expression > > of religious faith printed on it by my government, as if it > > is speaking for me. If I use that money without complaint > > or objection is I am essentially being dishonest. I don't > > like being coerced into being dishonest. > > I can see this as a conflict of interest. It never bothered me > even when I considered myself agnostic. If you do, I sorry. > I agree it should not be printed on US monies. > > > >> But atheists get tired of being "lead to the water" over and > > >> over. It is not the water that is the problem, but the > > >> incessant "leading". > > > > You don't have to go. You don't have to follow. > > > I agree. I can politely disagree and decline, just as you > > can do when an atheist tries to lead you out of your > > delusions. And I generally do just that, until they get pushy. > > Delusions? > It's amazing that atheist can absolutely without any reservation > at all what-so-ever, somehow claim to _know_ there is no god > and that its all delusions. This is a claim. A claim that has yet > to be proven. > > > > > > > >> Perhaps. But have you seriously considered any other > > >> possibilities? Perhaps they feel a great sadness that so > > >> many of their fellow men are living a dangerous delusion. > > >> Isn't this what really motivates Christian missionaries? > > >> Atheists who "invade" Christian or other religious forums > > >> may have just as good and positive motivations as any > > >> Christian missionary. They are bringing what to their minds > > >> is truth. I would think you could appreciate their > > >> motivation. > > > > To a large extent, I'm speaking from personal experience from > > > the time I was an agnostic with serious doubts. I don't think I > > > was ever an atheist. The happiness I saw in religious people > > > galled me. I resented their satisifaction and wanted to deprive > > > them when I could. > > > You describe resentment that is foreign to me. I see lots > > of expressions of contentment and satisfaction with > > religious experience and also high divorce rates, child > > abuse, smugness, superiority complexes and all sorts of > > other none enviable aspects of religious belief. I cannot > > muster envy of smug claims of satisfaction that do not ring > > true. > > Divorce rate, child abuse etc are not the properity of the > religious. > > Dan Certainly they are the province of the religious. Find a red state and therein you will see more divorces, more child molesting, more lawlessness than in blue states. Go to the seats of mormondom if you wish to see plenty of hanky- panky. The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals just recently restrained the Mormons from taking over Salt Lake City and crushing free speech. Mormons just love theocracy and Brigham Young, the namesake of their university who had 55 wives, some of whom divorced him and some of whom disappeared into thin air. Young's angry ravings against law and lawyers are a great source of entertainment among the bar of Utah, well, at least among the non-mormon bar. Quote
Guest Bill M Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1171883584.171136.280960@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... On Feb 18, 10:35?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Feb 18, 3:57?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Feb 16, 2:19?pm, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > > > > > On 16 Feb., 15:20, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:> On Feb > > > > > 15, 8:57 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 7:01?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > > > > > > snip > > > > > > > > You forgot about Isaiah. > > > > > > > Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a > > > > > > > seed of > > > > > > > evildoers, children that are corrupters; they have forsaken > > > > > > > the Lord, > > > > > > > they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are > > > > > > > gone > > > > > > > away backward. > > > > > > > Let's see how long you can last, atheist. > > > > > > > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > LOL! Bobby thinks he's causing great discomfort like holding a > > > > > > cross > > > > > > up to the face of a vampire.- > > > > > > It is strange isn't it? He really seems to believe that reading > > > > > verses from Isaiah will scare atheists. It is hard to accept that > > > > > somebody can be so incredibly silly. > > > > > Well, it is a win-win situation. If an atheist runs away like james > > > > g. keegan did, then you do not have to talk to him again. If an > > > > atheist sticks around, then he cannot pretend that he has never had > > > > anything intelligent said to him. He has read a few verses from the > > > > book of Isaiah. > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > Have told u before. U can have every atheist disappear in a puff of > > > smoke, just make your god appear, or even prove > > > it exists.- Hide quoted text - > > > I like doing it one at a time by quoting a few scriptures from Isaiah. > > Robert B. Winn > > You worship failure as well then ? > > Ever asked yourself this question "Why would an all powerful god that > created everything including this planet need to > rely on simple humans to write his book, and one only book, with nothing > else and god then departs for more than two > thousand years and never returns["? > > I suppose that is too logical for you and in any case you were warned > about such questions from nasty doubters with > horns and pointed tails when you were six and a half right? > > There's a real world out there; go enjoy it while you can > > [ What a Nerd]- Hide quoted text - > Well, Bob, you do not seem to know much about religion. I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Robert B. Winn Yes, that bunch of lunatic Christians! Quote
Guest Bill M Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1171882240.560918.302160@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... On Feb 18, 10:07?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Feb 17, 10:36?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Feb 17, 12:59?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:1171521149.118439.271150@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Feb 14, 9:21?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 18:59:33 -0800, in alt.atheism > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > > > > > > <1171508373.435033.309...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > > >On Feb 14, 5:24?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > >> On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism > > > > > > >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > > > > > > >> > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > > >> > ... > > > > > > > >> > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. incoln > > > > > > >> > >said on > > > > > > >> > >several occasions that he believed the Bible. > > > > > > > >> > Source with complete context please. > > > > > > > >> You'll never get it, not anything genuine. > > > > > > > >> Our religious kook might give you a forgery, as David Barton > > > > > > >> did in > > > > > > >> his book. > > > > > > > forged quote of Lincoln is making its rounds in usenet at>> this > > > > > > very > > > > > > moment. t recommends hunting down and hanging anyone > > > > > > >> critical of the war effort. > > > > > > > pundit has already confessed that he is > > > > > > > >> the author of the quote. > > > > > > > >> The fraud was perpetrated by one of the Moonie rags, either > > > > > > >> the Moonie > > > > > > >> Times or that bag of internet lies called _Insight Magazine._ > > > > > > > >Well, why don't you atheists just wait until after the > > > > > > >resurrection > > > > > > >and ask Abraham Lincoln in person if he believed the Bible? > > > > > > >I see no reason to worry about it myself. > > > > > > > Because you know that you have absolutely no evidence at all > > > > > > that there > > > > > > is going to be a resurrection, yet you keep trying to duck > > > > > > questions > > > > > > with your silly incantation.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > Jesus Christ was resurrected. That is all the evidence we need. > > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > > > You do not seem to understand the difference between a claim, a > > > > > fable and > > > > > objective verifiable evidence!- Hide quoted text - > > > > > I can tell, Bill. Fables are stories that give animals human > > > > characteristics, sort of like the theory of evolution. The Apostle > > > > Paul said that......... > > > > .....irresponsible childish nonsense - there is no way in this world > > > that we > > > have any idea what a so called 'apostle' was supposed to have said > > > over two > > > thousand years ago....... grow up > > > > By the way, apostles and prophets were all charlatans as they got up > > > and claimed > > > [or wrote claiming] that they had a direct link with a god - they were > > > all lying > > > through their teeth. > > > > So much for apostles ! > > > No, apostles and prophets were called of God to testify of Christ. I > > know this seems incredible to a person like you who has only > > associated with atheists and other dishonest people. > > Robert B. Winn > > Idiot - i was confirmed at 21 > > .................but then had the intelligence to see through the lunacy > > Called to testify !? Your invisible god does no calling today does it, > only claimed > to have happened so far back to times when nothing can be verified > > - how convenient- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - No man taketh this honor unto himself, but he who is called of God as was Aaron. The priesthood, which is the authority to speak for God, cannot be obtained except by ordination under the hands of someone who has that authority. Aaron was ordained by Moses, Moses was ordained by his father in law, Jethro. Robert B. Winn More biblical 'nonsense'! Quote
Guest Bill M Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1171883827.962661.184260@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... On Feb 18, 10:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: Well, here is a verse from Isaiah. No need to get irrational. Isaiah 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. Robert B. Winn You keep quoting this Bible nonsense without providing any evidence that it is fact instead of pure fiction. Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles. The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and unlikelihood of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there are no originals in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown accuracy. One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they were copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made between lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script, no spaces were used to separate words. This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua" 'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is no where' depending on the spacing which not used at the time. This left accurate interpretation very difficult and unlikely. Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and you have documents of highly questionable meaning and accuracy. Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the vocabularies were much more limited than today. The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the originals. And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than inaccurate fiction. Basing ones life and faith on these documents is not very sound reasoning. Quote
Guest jl Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Feb 19, 2:20 pm, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote: [...] > > My innate sense of reasoning and decades and decades of experience > > tell me there is no god. Don't afflict my children and the other > > children of the world with your poisonous superstitions. > > If I had the same misconceptions, fallen victim to secularist propaganda. > I would be an atheist too. Do your own research and not just a one-sided > search designed to support your opinion. > > Dan Wood It is the theist who conceives of a god and bears the burden of proving existence thereof. No one is ever born a theist. Theism is inculcated. The theist must be trained as such. For them to believe, if at all, children must be taught there is a god. Theism has universally failed to produce its god, and thus the proof of a god is based merely on faith and an ancient book of myths. Some children raised on religion, brought up in the church as I was, reject it not because of counter-evangelism but because they observe, see, think freely and critically, become enlightened and leave the darkness behind. I had been atheistic, as many others I have talked with about it, long before I began reading atheistic writings. The writings of freethinkers merely reinforced beliefs I had already formed. Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is of age he shall not depart from it? No, this is not a failsafe theist ideal, thanks to the resilience of the human mind. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On 19 Feb 2007 02:50:40 -0800, in alt.atheism "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in <1171882240.560918.302160@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>: >On Feb 18, 10:07?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> > On Feb 17, 10:36?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> > > rbwinn wrote: >> > > > On Feb 17, 12:59?pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message >> >> > > > >news:1171521149.118439.271150@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> > > > > On Feb 14, 9:21?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> > > > > > On 14 Feb 2007 18:59:33 -0800, in alt.atheism >> > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in >> > > > > > <1171508373.435033.309...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>: >> >> > > > > > >On Feb 14, 5:24?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> > > > > > >> On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> > On 14 Feb 2007 15:16:18 -0800, in alt.atheism >> > > > > > >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in >> > > > > > >> > <1171494978.705022.208...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>: >> >> > > > > > >> > ... >> >> > > > > > >> > >Well, that is a myth that atheists like to tell. incoln said on >> > > > > > >> > >several occasions that he believed the Bible. >> >> > > > > > >> > Source with complete context please. >> >> > > > > > >> You'll never get it, not anything genuine. >> >> > > > > > >> Our religious kook might give you a forgery, as David Barton did in >> > > > > > >> his book. >> >> > > > > > forged quote of Lincoln is making its rounds in usenet at>> this very >> > > > > > moment. t recommends hunting down and hanging anyone >> > > > > > >> critical of the war effort. >> >> > > > > > pundit has already confessed that he is >> >> > > > > > >> the author of the quote. >> >> > > > > > >> The fraud was perpetrated by one of the Moonie rags, either the Moonie >> > > > > > >> Times or that bag of internet lies called _Insight Magazine._ >> >> > > > > > >Well, why don't you atheists just wait until after the resurrection >> > > > > > >and ask Abraham Lincoln in person if he believed the Bible? >> > > > > > >I see no reason to worry about it myself. >> >> > > > > > Because you know that you have absolutely no evidence at all that there >> > > > > > is going to be a resurrection, yet you keep trying to duck questions >> > > > > > with your silly incantation.- Hide quoted text - >> >> > > > > Jesus Christ was resurrected. �hat is all the evidence we need. >> > > > > Robert B. Winn >> >> > > > > You do not seem to understand the difference between a claim, a fable and >> > > > > objective verifiable evidence!- Hide quoted text - >> >> > > > I can tell, Bill. �ables are stories that give animals human >> > > > characteristics, sort of like the theory of evolution. The Apostle >> > > > Paul said that......... >> >> > > .....irresponsible childish nonsense - there is no way in this world that we >> > > have any idea what a so called 'apostle' was supposed to have said over two >> > > thousand years ago....... grow up >> >> > > By the way, apostles and prophets were all charlatans as they got up and claimed >> > > [or wrote claiming] that they had a direct link with a god - they were all lying >> > > through their teeth. >> >> > > So much for apostles ! >> >> > No, apostles and prophets were called of God to testify of Christ. >> > know this seems incredible to a person like you who has only >> > associated with atheists and other dishonest people. >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> Idiot - i was confirmed at 21 >> >> .................but then had the intelligence to see through the lunacy >> >> Called to testify !? �our invisible god does no calling today does it, only claimed >> to have happened so far back to times when nothing can be verified >> >> - how convenient- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >No man taketh this honor unto himself, but he who is called of God as >was Aaron. >The priesthood, which is the authority to speak for God, cannot be >obtained except by ordination under the hands of someone who has that >authority. Aaron was ordained by Moses, Moses was ordained by his >father in law, Jethro. >Robert B. Winn So all Christian and LDS priests are not priests. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:13:10 +0800, in alt.atheism "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in <45d8c8b6$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >news:2ijet2d0cqie79k9n76le2tn8n26m4k1ub@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 06:57:25 +0800, in alt.atheism >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in >> <45d6f3b5$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >>>"jls" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >>>news:1171557849.413643.272690@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Feb 15, 7:22 am, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: >>>>> On Feb 15, 2:17?am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: >>>>> > On 15 Feb., 00:29, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: >>>>> > > On Feb 13, 8:34?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >>>>> > > > Free Lunch wrote: >>>>> > > > > On 13 Feb 2007 16:54:11 -0800, in alt.atheism >>>>> > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in >>>>> > > > > <1171414451.120125.63...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>: >>>>> > > > > >On Feb 13, 2:10 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: >>>>> > snip >>>>> >>>>> > > > > >I offered to send you a copy of the Bible. ?You have >>>>> > > > > >consistently >>>>> > > > > >maintained that the Bible does not exist. >>>>> >>>>> > > > > How many more times will you repeat that lie. >>>>> >>>>> > > > He is lying for god - so it's Okay. >>>>> >>>>> > > Well, Bob, does the Bible exist or not? ?You say whether it exists. >>>>> > > Don't try to call me a liar just because I called your bluff. >>>>> >>>>> > You are a liar. ?You said that I and others claimed the Bible did not >>>>> > exist. ?Not only was that a lie, it was incredibly silly. ?You called >>>>> > nobody's bluff; you just told a silly lie.- Hide quoted text - >>>>> >>>>> > - Show quoted text - >>>>> >>>>> You are still claiming that the Bible does not exist. If I ask you >>>>> about Isaiah's account of the Assyrian invasion of Judea, you reply >>>>> with an inane question about fictional characters. So, the >>>>> conversation is over. You are claiming that the Bible does not exist. >>>>> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text - >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> >>>> You are pathetic, Bobby. You've done violence to the English language >>>> with your mendacity, and your only alternative now to propagate your >>>> superstition is violence against the person. >>>> Philosophers and freethinkers don't do violence, but it's second >>>> nature with you Christians. >>>> >>> Religion IS Philosophy, and free thinkers allowed Hitler to sell His >>>values to his nation and which caused the misery and death of untold >>>millions. Apparently, your simplistic mind would believe anyone who says >>>he >>>is a Christian, even if he did, as well as advocate doing the opposite >>>from >>>the principles Christ stands for to His death on the cross. "Pathetic" >>>indeed!!!! See below >> >> You know that Hitler appealed to Christians and got them to support him. >> You know that the slaveholders appealed to Christians and caused a >> terrible war in the US. >> > The devil "appeals to Christians" but Bible believing Christians don't >believe him. Do YOU believe the devil? Of course not. The devil is just another Christian (demi)god. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:53:25 +0800, in alt.atheism "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in <45d9c68a$0$16269$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >"Paul Ransom Erickson" <prerickson@houston.rr.com> wrote in message >news:u4qft2ppbprus69bal5qdcjtjptkp7inf6@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:51:58 GMT, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> >> wrote: >>>On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:35:48 +0800, in alt.atheism >>>"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in >>><45d6f3c4$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >>>>news:021at2dduc81elh421vfel0tr3he94oqc0@4ax.com... >>>>> On 15 Feb 2007 04:31:43 -0800, in alt.atheism >>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in >>>>> <1171542703.680913.131700@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>>Well, Thomas, here we see the last refuge of the atheist, the personal >>>>>>attack. We were discussing the Bible here in alt.bible. Now everyone >>>>>>can see your purpose in intruding in our conversation. If you do not >>>>>>want to talk about the Bible, why don't you go live the happy life of >>>>>>an atheist? >>>>> >>>>> I'm in alt.atheism watching you tell your lies. Why are you posting >>>>> your >>>>> lies in alt.atheism. >>>>> >>>> Because a.a. is ABOUT atheism, not a refuge FOR atheists. Also, >>>> atheist >>>>doctrine demands, that what we consider the truth, atheists MUST call >>>>lies >>>>or face excommunication and confiscation of their number. >>> >>>As people have pointed out again and again, yet you, in your hubris >>>refuse to acknowledge, there is no such thing as atheist doctrine. >>> >>>It appears that you hate people. >> >> Indeed. He spends a lot of time on alt.atheism telling us how awful >> he thinks we are. >> > Non sequitur to what I wrote. My comments concerned atheism as a >philosophy of life, not atheists as persons. But then atheism requires >atheists to ALWAYS emphasis faults, errors, shortcomings, insufficiencies >etc. to the exclusion of affirming what is good, right, desirable, and >salutary. > That is what hell is all about, all negative and despairing and nothing >positive and hopeful. And that is also why Christ came to bring us the Good >News. As you know, atheism is not a philosophy of life. You choose to lie about it. Why is that? Is your god so pitifully weak that he needs your help? Does he fail if no one lies for him? Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Dan@V.A. wrote: > "John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message > news:Za6dnScGA9ood0TYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d@comcast.com... (snip) >> I agree. I can politely disagree and decline, just as you >> can do when an atheist tries to lead you out of your >> delusions. And I generally do just that, until they get pushy. >> > Delusions? > It's amazing that atheist can absolutely without any reservation > at all what-so-ever, somehow claim to _know_ there is no god > and that its all delusions. This is a claim. A claim that has yet > to be proven. We have been discussing the atheist's possible motivation for posting to a religious newsgroup. I used a word that pretty fairly depicts my personal opinion about religious belief as superstitious delusion. I wasn't trying to persuade you that this opinion represents factual truth about any particular hypothetical god. I thought we are trying to get into the mind of atheists, here, not actually argue their case. I don't have strong opinions on the actual existence of any particular hypothetical god unless the person claiming the reality of that existence is willing to go into some detail as to what, exactly he is talking about. It is just someone else's superstition. (snip) >> You describe resentment that is foreign to me. I see lots >> of expressions of contentment and satisfaction with >> religious experience and also high divorce rates, child >> abuse, smugness, superiority complexes and all sorts of >> other none enviable aspects of religious belief. I cannot >> muster envy of smug claims of satisfaction that do not ring >> true. >> > Divorce rate, child abuse etc are not the properity of the > religious. Granted. But religious people often hide their problems under a gloss of smug satisfaction and contentment that is a cover for their suffering and repression, because that is what is acceptable in their circle of religious acquaintance. I think that sort of practice at pretending is missing from lots of atheists. But I am sure exceptions go both ways. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:18:14 +0800, in alt.atheism "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in <45d8c8bc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >news:gkjet2pee0tg2c34t10askqsbgnf602ahb@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:35:48 +0800, in alt.atheism >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in >> <45d6f3c4$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >>>news:021at2dduc81elh421vfel0tr3he94oqc0@4ax.com... >>>> On 15 Feb 2007 04:31:43 -0800, in alt.atheism >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in >>>> <1171542703.680913.131700@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>: >>>>> >>>>>Well, Thomas, here we see the last refuge of the atheist, the personal >>>>>attack. We were discussing the Bible here in alt.bible. Now everyone >>>>>can see your purpose in intruding in our conversation. If you do not >>>>>want to talk about the Bible, why don't you go live the happy life of >>>>>an atheist? >>>> >>>> I'm in alt.atheism watching you tell your lies. Why are you posting your >>>> lies in alt.atheism. >>>> >>> Because a.a. is ABOUT atheism, not a refuge FOR atheists. Also, >>> atheist >>>doctrine demands, that what we consider the truth, atheists MUST call lies >>>or face excommunication and confiscation of their number. >> >> As people have pointed out again and again, yet you, in your hubris >> refuse to acknowledge, there is no such thing as atheist doctrine. >> It appears that you hate people. >> > Then what is it your are proselytizing? Nothing. >And which has as it's central theme: "There ain't no god(s)"? I don't say that. I state that there is absolutely no evidence for any gods. You choose to falsely claim that I have said something else. > Then show the connection between "hating people" and atheist doctrine >about the existence of god(s). Your hatred toward people has nothing to do with atheism, but everything to do with your hubris. You condemn all who don't believe as you teach. >Either that, or admit you are just lying again for atheism. No. You know I'm not lying. You are the one who loves to lie. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:26:29 +0800, in alt.atheism "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in <45d8c8c2$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >news:omjet2lb8mv0d5vsn42nec28tu6vo4gn00@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:37:59 +0800, in alt.atheism >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in >> <45d6f3c9$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >>>news:j31at2l12hkhm60fc8cs025gduu2uo2a2d@4ax.com... >>>> On 15 Feb 2007 04:52:39 -0800, in alt.atheism >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in >>>> <1171543959.023629.8540@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>: >>>>>On Feb 15, 4:35?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>> > On Feb 13, 8:37?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >>>>>> > > Free Lunch wrote: >>>>>> > > > On 13 Feb 2007 16:39:50 -0800, in alt.atheism >>>>>> > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in >>>>>> > > > <1171413590.219240.10...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>: >>>>>> > > > >On Feb 12, 9:25 am, "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote: >>>>>> > > > >> On 12 Feb., 03:23, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > > >> > On Feb 11, 4:10?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > > >> > > ?Not even just one? >>>>>> >>>>>> > > > >> > > Damn, you'd think with all that omnipotence and ego, at >>>>>> > > > >> > > least one god >>>>>> > > > >> > > would make itself known. >>>>>> >>>>>> > > > >> > Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >>>>>> > > > >> > Robert B. Winn >>>>>> >>>>>> > > > >> Why, don't you have any evidence to offer? >>>>>> >>>>>> > > > >All things that exist show that there is a God. >>>>>> >>>>>> > > [i must remember to add that 'little gem' to my list of >>>>>> > > 'Religious propagator's backs to the wall cop-out's] >>>>>> >>>>>> > Well, Bob, you were willing to provide us with a list of evil >>>>>> > spirits. �hy don't you make a list for us of the things that do not >>>>>> > show that there is a God? >>>>>> > Robert B. Winn >>>>>> >>>>>> with pleasure >>>>>> >>>>>> [Preface] >>>>>> >>>>>> "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one >>>>>> fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the >>>>>> other >>>>>> possible >>>>>> gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." >>>>>> [stephen Roberts] >>>>> >>>>>Well, there is really no such thing as an atheist. All atheists will >>>>>eventually confess that there is a God. >>>> >>>> Another smug little self-righteous lie from the man who rejects Jesus's >>>> teachings about hypocricy. >>>> >>> Quote Jesus on that, or admit you are lying for atheism. >> >> Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for >> ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in >> yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. >> >> 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour >> widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall >> receive the greater damnation. >> >> 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea >> and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold >> more the child of hell than yourselves. >> >> You _know_ that I do not lie. >> > Who is "rejecting the teachings of Jesus" more than atheists? You ARE >lying about us followers of Christ rejecting His teaching like atheists do? >We are no Pharisees either. Then it appears that you are no follower of Jesus. From the evidence of your posts, I am more of a follower than you are, but I don't happen to think there are any gods, so you get all upset. You, on the other hand, are just like the Pharisees that were presented in the New Testament: self-righteous, rigid, indifferent to those around you, completely obsessed with the law. > You got yourself between a rock and a hard place. Is that why you now >screech nonsense to extricate yourself from your lies? As I said. I don't lie. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:36:48 +0800, in alt.atheism "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in <45d8c8cc$0$16329$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >news:d2ket2h01hvlobma2mv2dl4s7got2mo5eu@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 06:41:50 +0800, in alt.atheism >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in >> <45d6f3b1$0$16389$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >>>"jls" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >>>news:1171556592.592585.319940@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Feb 14, 3:17 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote: >>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:1171374673.776239.100670@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >>>>> >>>>> What is it that you think you are going to accomplish by making all of >>>>> these lists of things you do not believe? >>>>> Do you have any lists of things you believe? >>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>> ------------------ >>>>> Atheists ONLY have lists of disbeliefs. >>>> >>>> No, they believe in reality, in the scientific method, in the fossil >>>> record, in the beauties of the world and universe, and are skeptical >>>> of people who make claims based on a book whose provenance is at best >>>> a pretence without corroboration. >>>> >>> So you say, but atheists only talk about their disbeliefs and never >>> say >>>anything they believe. >> >> False witness from Frank. Who would have expected that after so many of >> his lie filled comments in the past. >> > Thanks for proving my point. So you disbelieve what I just said, as >usual, and are now claiming that atheism is a belief system, instead of a >disbelief system. Let's see you prove that. Either prove it, or admit your >just lying for atheism again. You are the one who calls atheism a belief system. I call you on your lie. Atheism is not a form of belief. Lack of belief is not a system. You know that. You appear to like lying. Why is that? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:07:20 +0800, in alt.atheism "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in <45d9c67d$0$16269$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>: >"Paul Ransom Erickson" <prerickson@houston.rr.com> wrote in message >news:n83ft2l51m41jk686v172i57t3i2invsbp@4ax.com... >> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:14:54 +0800, "Pastor Frank" >> <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:1171374673.776239.100670@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >>>> >>>> What is it that you think you are going to accomplish by making all of >>>> these lists of things you do not believe? >>>> Do you have any lists of things you believe? >>>> Robert B. Winn >>> >>> Atheists believe that by listing all they don't believe, what's left >>>over MUST be the truth. Unfortunately for them, there are an infinite >>>number >>>of things which are not true, and very few thing which are true. So they >>>will never reach that desired end. Not only that, but because atheists >>>look >>>only for what is untrue and lies, were they to come across the truth they >>>would miss it altogether. >> >> As usual, you think you know all about "athsists" based on your own >> past. I bet you haven't really changed much. >> > I changed from a self-justified sinner, to a repentant one. Your actions show the behavior of self-righteous man with no humility. .... Quote
Guest Padraic Brown Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:45:57 -0500, "Dan@V.A." <danW@bellsouth.net> wrote: >It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups >with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the >Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. >IE _the hope that there is no God. >Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of >their own positions in respect to God and religion. It could well be. Many of the "atheists" I've met hereabouts are "recovering Christians". That is, they have experienced some crisis that has crippled them. In an attempt to repair themselves, they have either lost or else violently cast aside their faith and belief. Too many of these converts to Atheism end up in reality as anti-theists rather than proper atheists. They rant and rave against God and religion -- almost always the Christian idea of God and the Christian religion -- and offer little more than insult and emotionalism. >If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why does it matter >to them? It matters very much because they have not really left their faith behind them. They have only gone through the to the Other Side, as it were, of faith, and they have converted to un-faith. You'll notice that the claim is made that many so-called atheists are more familiar with the Bible than most Christians - - and this seems to be so. Also, most of them are almost pathologically fixated on God, more so than most Christians. There are religions that are atheistic (certain forms of Buddhism being classic examples). I've not met a Buddhist that has railed away against God the way these particular "atheists" do. I think this is really because God is a much bigger part of their lives than they are willing to admit. If God really were nothing to them, they would be able to ignore those pesky Christians when they come a-trolling through alt.atheism. They certainly wouldn't feel the need to post threads like this one in a religious newgroup. >Why is it their concern if Christians believe that God >exist? Sometimes they claim a vague altruism -- the old "Christianity is a delusion, and I take is as my civic duty to stamp out delusion and ignorance where I find it". >How is this any business of theirs? If they believe there >is no God, fine it's their right. But Christians have the same right. Presumably you mean "same right to believe that there _is_ a God". >I know they like to pretend that Christians try to shove their religion >down their throats, Christian prosletysation, for all it is "commanded" by Jesus (or more likely, commanded by a later editor in Jesus's name), is very bad behaviour. Jesus never went around prosletysing. He went to a place -- out of the way, mind -- and began to teach. People came to him; he didn't knock on their doors and harangue them. He said that if people reject your message, to leave in peace, doing no more than knocking the dust off your shoes. >this somehow in their minds justifies their attacks >on Christians, The bad behaviour of Christians doesn't justify bad behaviour on the part of "atheists". They would win more points in this game if they could learn to be civil and act decently. The Christians could too, by the way! >but this is impossible to force conversion and futile >even if it were for the simple reason it would not be an honest >sincere conversion. Sure. I really don't think forced conversion, one way or the other, is really the issue. You can't get away with that in modern times. >You can lead a horse to water but you cannot >force him to drink. Indeed. > Is it possible that these people are unhappy themselves, so it >galls them to recognize the satisfaction that religious people feel >and express because of their religious faith. This is possible. Given that so many "atheists" came from Christian backgrounds, it seems quite likely. Padraic >Dan > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message >> > >> > >news:1171435012.693634.303310@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >> > > > On 13 Feb., 22:47, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:45:56 -0500, in alt.atheism Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in <kqbkt2pb3fhvbg9vucgdjmnhvqkvrje6o5@4ax.com>: >On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:45:57 -0500, "Dan@V.A." <danW@bellsouth.net> >wrote: > >>It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups >>with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the >>Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. >>IE _the hope that there is no God. >>Could it be that they are searching for some reassurance of >>their own positions in respect to God and religion. > >It could well be. Many of the "atheists" I've met hereabouts are >"recovering Christians". That is, they have experienced some crisis >that has crippled them. In an attempt to repair themselves, they have >either lost or else violently cast aside their faith and belief. Too >many of these converts to Atheism end up in reality as anti-theists >rather than proper atheists. They rant and rave against God and >religion -- almost always the Christian idea of God and the Christian >religion -- and offer little more than insult and emotionalism. > >>If there is "No Evidence of Gods", so what: why does it matter >>to them? > >It matters very much because they have not really left their faith >behind them. They have only gone through the to the Other Side, as it >were, of faith, and they have converted to un-faith. You'll notice >that the claim is made that many so-called atheists are more familiar >with the Bible than most Christians - - and this seems to be so. Also, >most of them are almost pathologically fixated on God, more so than >most Christians. > >There are religions that are atheistic (certain forms of Buddhism >being classic examples). I've not met a Buddhist that has railed away >against God the way these particular "atheists" do. I think this is >really because God is a much bigger part of their lives than they are >willing to admit. If God really were nothing to them, they would be >able to ignore those pesky Christians when they come a-trolling >through alt.atheism. They certainly wouldn't feel the need to post >threads like this one in a religious newgroup. >>Why is it their concern if Christians believe that God >>exist? > >Sometimes they claim a vague altruism -- the old "Christianity is a >delusion, and I take is as my civic duty to stamp out delusion and >ignorance where I find it". > >>How is this any business of theirs? If they believe there >>is no God, fine it's their right. But Christians have the same right. > >Presumably you mean "same right to believe that there _is_ a God". > >>I know they like to pretend that Christians try to shove their religion >>down their throats, > >Christian prosletysation, for all it is "commanded" by Jesus (or more >likely, commanded by a later editor in Jesus's name), is very bad >behaviour. Jesus never went around prosletysing. He went to a place -- >out of the way, mind -- and began to teach. People came to him; he >didn't knock on their doors and harangue them. He said that if people >reject your message, to leave in peace, doing no more than knocking >the dust off your shoes. > >>this somehow in their minds justifies their attacks >>on Christians, > >The bad behaviour of Christians doesn't justify bad behaviour on the >part of "atheists". They would win more points in this game if they >could learn to be civil and act decently. The Christians could too, by >the way! > >>but this is impossible to force conversion and futile >>even if it were for the simple reason it would not be an honest >>sincere conversion. > >Sure. I really don't think forced conversion, one way or the other, is >really the issue. You can't get away with that in modern times. > >>You can lead a horse to water but you cannot >>force him to drink. > >Indeed. > >> Is it possible that these people are unhappy themselves, so it >>galls them to recognize the satisfaction that religious people feel >>and express because of their religious faith. > >This is possible. Given that so many "atheists" came from Christian >backgrounds, it seems quite likely. > >Padraic > >>Dan >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> > > > "thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message >>> > >>> > >news:1171435012.693634.303310@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >>> > > > On 13 Feb., 22:47, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > > "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 On 18 Feb 2007 23:37:01 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote: - Refer: <45D9373A.E9674EF3@netvigator.com> > > >rbwinn wrote: > >> On Feb 14, 4:44?? Quote
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