Guest Free Lunch Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On 20 Feb 2007 20:04:21 -0800, in alt.atheism "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in <1172030661.281379.130510@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>: >On Feb 20, 10:13?am, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> On Feb 19, 10:10 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Well, I am probably less impressed by lawyers than Brigham Young was. >> >> Judging by his many lawsuits and his comments about the lawyers >> afterwards, he hated them. �ou can read the particulars in an article >> by Orma Linford, "The Mormons, the Law, and the Territory of Utah," >> and in many of Young's writings. >> >> If it is any consolation to you I'm sure the Mormons had reason to >> distrust law and lawyers from their many bad experiences in Missouri >> and Illinois. >> >> > Since you know so much about law, perhaps you could tell us your >> > interpretation of the sixth amendment to the Constitution of the >> > United States. >> >> A conscientious writer could spend a year writing about the 6th >> Amendment, it is so rich with caselaw and judicial gloss. >oreover, >> because of the 19th century's 14th Amendment, the 6th Amendment is now >> applied to the states and their subdivisions, including Utah and SLC. >> >> Legal issues: >> pretrial rights >> venue >> in gremio legis >> speedy trial >> open proceedings, no closed courtrooms, no secret trials >> impartial jury of peers >> jurisdiction >> no ex post facto >> notice of charges in full particulars of facts and law so that accused >> may prepare his defense >> opportunity to be heard >> confrontation with witnesses, no trial in absentia >> subpoena power to compel attendance of witness and to bring documents >> and things >> (subpoena ad testificandum, subpoena duces tecum) >> right to attorney >> >> What part of it piques your curiosity? �r is it the whole damn thing? >> >> AMENDMENT VI. >> Right to speedy trial, witnesses, etc. >> In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a >> speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and >> district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district >> shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of >> the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the >> witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining >> witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his >> defence. >> >> Now, Robbie, don't be sending me off another one of those wild goose >> chases. >> We're talking about whether there is a god, and btw the brains who >> drafted the 6th did not believe in a god, at least not in an >> intervenor who paid any attention to the affairs of humanity. > >The part that says in all criminal prosecutions, the accused has a >right to trial by jury. Lawyers claim this means that in most >criminal prosecutions, the accused has no such right. >Robert B. Winn Could you show me where the Supreme Court said that you don't have the right to a trial by jury in criminal prosecutions? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On 20 Feb 2007 20:06:22 -0800, in alt.atheism "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in <1172030782.372449.111750@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>: >On Feb 20, 2:22?pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote: >> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:51:17 -0500, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> >> wrote: >> >> >Mormonism and Jehovah witnesses are extremes, far out in their beliefs >> >and practices. Several Mormon groups in Utah, Arizona Montana and >> >other states still practice polygamy. This is abuse of women and their >> >offspring. A practice condemned by all Christians. >> >> Not by two Christian sects - Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. > >Atheists are the ones who are the greatest abusers of women. My, aren't you defensive -- and wrong, of course. Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Feb 20, 7:28�am, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > On Feb 20, 12:41 am, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Feb 20, 9:28�am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > wrote: > > After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 7:40 > > am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 20, 4:41?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > > >> Darrell Stec wrote: > > >> > After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February 2007 > > >> > 10:59 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > > > > >> > > I feel better already. ??Here is a verse from Isaiah to brighten > > >> > > your day. > > > > >> > Which Isaiah? ??You realize that there were at least four people or > > >> > schools writing under the name of Isaiah and throughout several > > >> > centuries don't you? ??Isaiah is a composition by many not the work > > >> > of one man. > > > > >> "... the Bible was a collection of books written at different times > > >> by different men, a strange mixture of diverse human documents, and a > > >> tissue of irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The Bible is not even > > >> intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, but is full of > > >> absurdities and contradictions." > > >> [E. Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"] > > > > > Sorry, Darrell, no one can fake writing like Isaiah. Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Feb 20, 8:59�am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > wrote: > > After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 7:33 > > am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 20, 12:39?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > > > wrote: > > >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 > > >> 12:44 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > > > > >> > On Feb 19, 10:14?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > > >> > wrote: > > >> >> After serious contemplation, on or about Monday 19 February 2007 > > >> >> 6:02 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > > > > >> >> > On Feb 18, 10:21?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> > > >> >> > wrote: > > >> >> >> Michael Gray wrote: > > >> >> >> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:33:04 -0500, Darrell Stec > > >> >> >> > <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > > >> >> >> > ?? - Refer: <53rnsvF1u88b...@mid.individual.net> > > >> >> >> > >After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February > > >> >> >> > >2007 10:53 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > >> So when Jesus Christ said that he was not the offspring of > > >> >> >> > >> monkeys, you claim that he was telling a "yarn"? > > >> >> >> > >> Robert B. Winn > > > > >> >> >> > >I'm unfamiliar with that scripture. ??Perhaps you might > > >> >> >> > >tells us what the phantom bible you got that from says? > > > > >> >> >> > The Ladybird Illustrated Book of Bible stories for Children. > > > > >> >> >> Or the other one > > > > >> >> >> "How to brainwash your children into following The Father" > > > > >> >> >> We jest, but the truth is these things happen > > >> >> >> and it should be declared a criminal offence > > > > >> >> > So if the government could be persuaded into burning all Bibles, > > >> >> > there could be world peace? > > >> >> > Robert B. Winn > > > > >> >> That would be an exercise in futility. ??First (and there is > > >> >> historical precedence for it) not all bibles would be burned. > > >> >> ??Some would be squirreled away (that's why we know about early > > >> >> Christians like the Marcionites, Ebonites, Arianims, and others > > >> >> like the Gnostics. > > > > >> >> Secondly some nuts would come along and invent some new stories > > >> >> for a bible (for instance the one that was later translated as the > > >> >> KJV). ??And in case you haven't noticed, it has been Christianity > > >> >> that burned books throughout history. ??Thinking people are not > > >> >> afraid of ideas. ??If those ideas are wrong then that will be > > >> >> exposed. ??Christians burn the books in order to keep the ideas > > >> >> from being expressed and examined. > > > > >> >> -- > > >> >> Later, > > >> >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com > > >> > So the best you can do is pretend that you cannot understand what > > >> > the Bible says. > > >> > Robert B. Winn > > > > >> Not only can I understand it, I can and have read the Hebrew > > >> versions, the Greek versions and even Jerome's Latin Vulgate. ??I had > > >> a formal education in the classic languages and theology. ??How about > > >> you? > > > > > Jesus Christ never went to college. Quote
Guest Andrew Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 "Free Lunch" wrote in message news:8s4nt2h6gpnmh27021i30ngvod1d0n6247@4ax.com... > "Andrew" wrote: >> >>Religion may be defined as a personal set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices relating >>to one's understanding of a deity. Atheists do not believe in Deity (God). They can >>not -prove- this. It is their BELIEF. It is in fact therefore their religion as affirmed >>by the courts. > > So what. You cannot prove that you are not really controlled by Satan. So, Mr. Lunch denies God but openly acknowledges Satan - his true master. Quote
Guest Darrell Stec Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 10:46 pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote: > On Feb 20, 8:59?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > wrote: >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 >> 7:33 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Feb 20, 12:39?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> >> > wrote: >> >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 >> >> 12:44 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> > On Feb 19, 10:14?am, Darrell Stec >> >> > <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >> >> >> After serious contemplation, on or about Monday 19 February >> >> >> 2007 6:02 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > On Feb 18, 10:21?pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Michael Gray wrote: >> >> >> >> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:33:04 -0500, Darrell Stec >> >> >> >> > <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > ?? - Refer: <53rnsvF1u88b...@mid.individual.net> >> >> >> >> > >After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 >> >> >> >> > >February 2007 10:53 am rbwinn perhaps from >> >> >> >> > >rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > >> So when Jesus Christ said that he was not the offspring >> >> >> >> > >> of monkeys, you claim that he was telling a "yarn"? >> >> >> >> > >> Robert B. Winn >> >> >> >> >> > >I'm unfamiliar with that scripture. ??Perhaps you might >> >> >> >> > >tells us what the phantom bible you got that from says? >> >> >> >> >> > The Ladybird Illustrated Book of Bible stories for >> >> >> >> > Children. >> >> >> >> >> Or the other one >> >> >> >> >> "How to brainwash your children into following The Father" >> >> >> >> >> We jest, but the truth is these things happen >> >> >> >> and it should be declared a criminal offence >> >> >> >> > So if the government could be persuaded into burning all >> >> >> > Bibles, there could be world peace? >> >> >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> >> >> That would be an exercise in futility. ??First (and there is >> >> >> historical precedence for it) not all bibles would be burned. >> >> >> ??Some would be squirreled away (that's why we know about early >> >> >> Christians like the Marcionites, Ebonites, Arianims, and others >> >> >> like the Gnostics. >> >> >> >> Secondly some nuts would come along and invent some new stories >> >> >> for a bible (for instance the one that was later translated as >> >> >> the KJV). ??And in case you haven't noticed, it has been >> >> >> Christianity that burned books throughout history. ??Thinking >> >> >> people are not afraid of ideas. ??If those ideas are wrong then >> >> >> that will be exposed. ??Christians burn the books in order to >> >> >> keep the ideas from being expressed and examined. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Later, >> >> >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com >> >> > So the best you can do is pretend that you cannot understand >> >> > what the Bible says. >> >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> >> Not only can I understand it, I can and have read the Hebrew >> >> versions, the Greek versions and even Jerome's Latin Vulgate. ??I >> >> had a formal education in the classic languages and theology. >> >> ??How about you? >> >> > Jesus Christ never went to college. ??I went one year. ??The >> > Apostle Peter never went to college. ??Here is what he said about >> > it.2 Peter 1:19-21 ??We have also a more sure word of prophecy; >> > whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that >> > shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise >> > in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the >> > scripture is of any private interpretation. >> > For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy >> > men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. >> >> In other words they made stuff up for a people who were even more >> ignorant then them. ??The spirit that moved them was more likely >> alcohol. ??And considering they were Christians (meaning oiled ones >> because they drenched themselves in sacred oil) they were almost >> certainly high on psychotropic drugs. ??Try reading Leviticus for the >> recipe for making anointing oil. ??For one it contained seed from the >> cannabis plant and several other psychotropic materials such as myrrh >> and spikard. >> >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> Peter didn't write that. ??It was written well after the designated >> character of the gospel fictions was supposed to have lived. ??I >> doubt you could find a serious biblical scholar today that believes >> Peter wrote that Epistle. ??Peter as portrayed in the gospels is an >> ignorant fisherman. ??He could not have written the polished Greek of >> that letter. ??Nor was the theology expressed in that letter mature >> enough during his designated lifetime. >> >> -- >> Later, >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com >> > Sorry, Darrell. Peter did write it. Peter is another prophet who > cannot be faked. > Robert B. Winn So Peter wrote an espistle circa 140CE? Just how long do you think he lived? Besides tradition has Peter being executed (crucified upside down) about 70 - 80 years earlier than the epistle that bears his name. Please list any biblical scholar in the last 100 years that thinks the Epistle of Peter was written by the character of the gospels which bears the same name. You are so unfamiliar with biblical scholarship you are an embarrassment to your fellow LDS congregation. You might want to pick up an occasional copy of FARM, though rather biased, it will still get you more up to date with the biblical scholarship of even your own experts. -- Later, Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com Webpage Sorcery http://webpagesorcery.com We Put the Magic in Your Webpages Quote
Guest Darrell Stec Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 10:03 pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote: > On Feb 16, 6:36?am, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: >> In alt.atheism On 15 Feb 2007 18:35:15 -0800, "rbwinn" >> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that: >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Feb 15, 5:00?pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: >> >> In alt.atheism On 14 Feb 2007 22:24:28 -0800, "rbwinn" >> >> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that: >> >> >> >On Feb 14, 8:19?pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> In alt.atheism On 14 Feb 2007 15:25:25 -0800, "rbwinn" >> >> >> <rbwi...@juno.com> let us all know that: >> >> >> >> >On Feb 13, 7:22?pm, "jls" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Feb 13, 8:05 pm, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> >> >> >> >> wrote:> In alt.atheism On 13 Feb 2007 16:59:35 -0800, >> >> >> >> "rbwinn" >> >> >> >> >> ...] >> >> >> >> >> Did you notice that nowhere in the Old Testament is the >> >> >> >> messiah predicted to be god? (e messiah is prophesied to >> >> >> >> bring peace, to bring comfort to the wretched, to heal the >> >> >> >> earth; but nowhere in the Old Testament does it say he will >> >> >> >> be worshiped as a god. >> >> >> >> >Isaiah 9:6 >> >> >> >> ?? See Is 8:3. That is the child spoken of in Is 9:6. >> >> >> >No, sorry. >> >> >> ?? ?? Sorry, but it's true. Only if one takes Is 9:6 completely >> >> out of context can it be applied to jesus. Will you admit to >> >> taking Is 9:6 completely out of context? >> >> >> Don >> >> >Well, let's work over to it, Don. ?? >> >> ?? ?? ?? ?? No, there's no working over to it. The fact is that the >> child born in Is 8:3 fills the prophecy from Is 7:14 and is being >> lauded from Is 8:5 on, continuing through Is 9. >> >> ?? ?? ?? ?? Interesting note: if you read Is 9:1-2 and then find Matt >> 4:12-16, you'll see how the former verses were concatenated to invent >> a prophecy that doesn't actually exist. >> > Well, as an apostle, Matthew certainly had the authority to say what > Isaiah meant by his prophecy. > So what is your authority to say that Matthew was concatenating > something? > Robert B. Winn One does not need an authority to see what can be easily demonstrated by reading the two passages oneself. Try it. The only way you could come to any other conclusion but that Matthew concatenated two verses is if you are subject to doublespeak. See Orwell's 1984 if you are unfamiliar with the term. -- Later, Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com Webpage Sorcery http://webpagesorcery.com We Put the Magic in Your Webpages Quote
Guest Darrell Stec Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 10:58 pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote: > On Feb 20, 9:28?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > wrote: >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 >> 7:40 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Feb 20, 4:41?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> >> Darrell Stec wrote: >> >> > After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February 2007 >> >> > 10:59 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> > > I feel better already. ??Here is a verse from Isaiah to >> >> > > brighten your day. >> >> >> > Which Isaiah? ??You realize that there were at least four people >> >> > or schools writing under the name of Isaiah and throughout >> >> > several centuries don't you? ??Isaiah is a composition by many >> >> > not the work of one man. >> >> >> "... the Bible was a collection of books written at different >> >> times by different men, a strange mixture of diverse human >> >> documents, and a tissue of irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The >> >> Bible is not even intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, >> >> but is full of absurdities and contradictions." >> >> [E. Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"] >> >> > Sorry, Darrell, no one can fake writing like Isaiah. ??He was the >> > only one who wrote the way he wrote. >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> How can you make statements like that? ??You can't read the Hebrew it >> was written in. ??Even several of my bibles explicity state that >> Isaiah was written by a minimum of three different schools or >> persons. ??The grammar and syntax varies in style (and content) among >> those writers. You can't read the originals, nor understand the fine >> nuances of the Hebrew language. ??Can you name any real biblical >> scholar of today who shares your viewpoint? >> >> Your own LDS scholars do not agree with you. ??Note: "John Tvedtnes, >> senior project manager for FARMS, has written technical studies on >> Hebraisms and Isaiah variants in the Book of Mormon." which can be >> found athttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/cpoint10-2.html. >> >> -- >> Later, >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com >> > I do not really care what some college boys think. The key to Isaiah > is in the pattern of the words. Same pattern as Matthew 6:9-13. > Robert B. Winn What arrogance!!!! You who admittedly have little to no education dismisses with the stroke of a keyboard what biblical scholars of his own faith have researched. What biblical scholars do you think have no education? Do you live in the Deep South Bible Belt. You would be at home by all those ignoramuses that oft repeat, "Book larnin' ain't nuthin'" Besides you are utterly daft. Why lie like that when anyone with half a brain and fairly decent eyesight can read the passages in question and know for a fact they are not identical. That is why Matthew has been said to have concatenated the passages in question. -- Later, Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com Webpage Sorcery http://webpagesorcery.com We Put the Magic in Your Webpages Quote
Guest Semper Lib Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 "Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:d0v9t2p7rbmf9k0nlmpos914kg39cau5pb@4ax.com... > On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:29:52 GMT, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Semper Lib Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 "thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message news:1171624464.851175.119410@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... On 16 Feb., 00:29, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:34:05 GMT, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Lars Eighner Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 In our last episode, <45d9c6bb$0$16269$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, the lovely and talented Pastor Frank broadcast on alt.atheism: > "Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1htqhxh.18bgdpfzkc43tN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com... >> Pastor Frank <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote: >>> >>> Is "reality" the god you worship? Reality worshippers are stoic >>> fatalists, ready to accept whatever reality dishes out. Only God's people >>> are willing to make an effort to live up to ideals, in the hope of >>> improving >>> upon reality. >> >> Is "UNreality" the god you worship? Unreality worshippers are willful >> delusionists, ready to accept whatever their clery dishes out. Only >> realists are willing to make an effort to understand the world in which >> we live, in the hope of improving upon that reality. >> > What is "UNreality"? You seem clueless as to the values Christ > represents. "clerics" indeed!!! See below > Pastor Frank > Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one > another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. > Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, > if ye have love one to another. > Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another, > as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down > his life for his friends. We only have to examine the behavior of Christians to see that these saying were not divinely inspired, but were corrupt from the beginning. Platitudes cannot overcome a belief that is fundamentally false. We can see what Christianity is by observing Christians in the here and now, and what we see is that it is complete, unchecked evil. -- Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner> Countdown: 699 days to go. Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Darrell Stec wrote: > After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 10:58 > pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote: > > > On Feb 20, 9:28?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > > wrote: > >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 > >> 7:40 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Feb 20, 4:41?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > >> >> Darrell Stec wrote: > >> >> > After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February 2007 > >> >> > 10:59 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > >> > >> >> > > I feel better already. ??Here is a verse from Isaiah to > >> >> > > brighten your day. > >> > >> >> > Which Isaiah? ??You realize that there were at least four people > >> >> > or schools writing under the name of Isaiah and throughout > >> >> > several centuries don't you? ??Isaiah is a composition by many > >> >> > not the work of one man. > >> > >> >> "... the Bible was a collection of books written at different > >> >> times by different men, a strange mixture of diverse human > >> >> documents, and a tissue of irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The > >> >> Bible is not even intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, > >> >> but is full of absurdities and contradictions." > >> >> [E. Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"] > >> > >> > Sorry, Darrell, no one can fake writing like Isaiah. ??He was the > >> > only one who wrote the way he wrote. > >> > Robert B. Winn > >> > >> How can you make statements like that? ??You can't read the Hebrew it > >> was written in. ??Even several of my bibles explicity state that > >> Isaiah was written by a minimum of three different schools or > >> persons. ??The grammar and syntax varies in style (and content) among > >> those writers. You can't read the originals, nor understand the fine > >> nuances of the Hebrew language. ??Can you name any real biblical > >> scholar of today who shares your viewpoint? > >> > >> Your own LDS scholars do not agree with you. ??Note: "John Tvedtnes, > >> senior project manager for FARMS, has written technical studies on > >> Hebraisms and Isaiah variants in the Book of Mormon." which can be > >> found athttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/cpoint10-2.html. > >> > >> -- > >> Later, > >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com > >> > > I do not really care what some college boys think. The key to Isaiah > > is in the pattern of the words. Same pattern as Matthew 6:9-13. > > Robert B. Winn > > What arrogance!!!! You who admittedly have little to no education > dismisses with the stroke of a keyboard what biblical scholars of his > own faith have researched. What biblical scholars do you think have no > education? Do you live in the Deep South Bible Belt. You would be at > home by all those ignoramuses that oft repeat, "Book larnin' ain't > nuthin'" > > Besides you are utterly daft........ I doubt Americans in general know the meaning of this very English expression > Why lie like that when anyone with half a > brain and fairly decent eyesight can read the passages in question and > know for a fact they are not identical. That is why Matthew has been > said to have concatenated the passages in question. > > -- > Later, > Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com > > Webpage Sorcery > http://webpagesorcery.com > We Put the Magic in Your Webpages Quote
Guest Mettas Mother Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 That's because Eve was the one that spoilt Adam! "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message news:1172030782.372449.111750@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 20, 2:22?pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:51:17 -0500, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> > > wrote: > > > > >Mormonism and Jehovah witnesses are extremes, far out in their beliefs > > >and practices. Several Mormon groups in Utah, Arizona Montana and > > >other states still practice polygamy. This is abuse of women and their > > >offspring. A practice condemned by all Christians. > > > > Not by two Christian sects - Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. > > Atheists are the ones who are the greatest abusers of women. > Robert B. Winn > Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On 21 Feb 2007 02:40:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote: - Refer: <45DC04EA.BEDE5A75@netvigator.com> > > >Darrell Stec wrote: > >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 10:58 >> pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote: >> >> > On Feb 20, 9:28?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> >> > wrote: >> >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 >> >> 7:40 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Feb 20, 4:41?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: >> >> >> Darrell Stec wrote: >> >> >> > After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February 2007 >> >> >> > 10:59 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > > I feel better already. ??Here is a verse from Isaiah to >> >> >> > > brighten your day. >> >> >> >> >> > Which Isaiah? ??You realize that there were at least four people >> >> >> > or schools writing under the name of Isaiah and throughout >> >> >> > several centuries don't you? ??Isaiah is a composition by many >> >> >> > not the work of one man. >> >> >> >> >> "... the Bible was a collection of books written at different >> >> >> times by different men, a strange mixture of diverse human >> >> >> documents, and a tissue of irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The >> >> >> Bible is not even intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, >> >> >> but is full of absurdities and contradictions." >> >> >> [E. Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"] >> >> >> >> > Sorry, Darrell, no one can fake writing like Isaiah. ??He was the >> >> > only one who wrote the way he wrote. >> >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> >> >> How can you make statements like that? ??You can't read the Hebrew it >> >> was written in. ??Even several of my bibles explicity state that >> >> Isaiah was written by a minimum of three different schools or >> >> persons. ??The grammar and syntax varies in style (and content) among >> >> those writers. You can't read the originals, nor understand the fine >> >> nuances of the Hebrew language. ??Can you name any real biblical >> >> scholar of today who shares your viewpoint? >> >> >> >> Your own LDS scholars do not agree with you. ??Note: "John Tvedtnes, >> >> senior project manager for FARMS, has written technical studies on >> >> Hebraisms and Isaiah variants in the Book of Mormon." which can be >> >> found athttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/cpoint10-2.html. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Later, >> >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com >> >> >> > I do not really care what some college boys think. The key to Isaiah >> > is in the pattern of the words. Same pattern as Matthew 6:9-13. >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> What arrogance!!!! You who admittedly have little to no education >> dismisses with the stroke of a keyboard what biblical scholars of his >> own faith have researched. What biblical scholars do you think have no >> education? Do you live in the Deep South Bible Belt. You would be at >> home by all those ignoramuses that oft repeat, "Book larnin' ain't >> nuthin'" >> >> Besides you are utterly daft........ > >I doubt Americans in general know the meaning of this very English >expression Then let's try it in Australian vernacular: "a total fuckwit" : -- Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Michael Gray wrote: > On 21 Feb 2007 02:40:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> > wrote: > - Refer: <45DC04EA.BEDE5A75@netvigator.com> > > > > > >Darrell Stec wrote: > > > >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 10:58 > >> pm rbwinn perhaps from rbwinn3@juno.com wrote: > >> > >> > On Feb 20, 9:28?am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > >> > wrote: > >> >> After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 20 February 2007 > >> >> 7:40 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Feb 20, 4:41?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Darrell Stec wrote: > >> >> >> > After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 18 February 2007 > >> >> >> > 10:59 am rbwinn perhaps from rbwi...@juno.com wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >> > > I feel better already. ??Here is a verse from Isaiah to > >> >> >> > > brighten your day. > >> >> > >> >> >> > Which Isaiah? ??You realize that there were at least four people > >> >> >> > or schools writing under the name of Isaiah and throughout > >> >> >> > several centuries don't you? ??Isaiah is a composition by many > >> >> >> > not the work of one man. > >> >> > >> >> >> "... the Bible was a collection of books written at different > >> >> >> times by different men, a strange mixture of diverse human > >> >> >> documents, and a tissue of irreconcilable notions. Inspired? The > >> >> >> Bible is not even intelligent. It is not even good craftsmanship, > >> >> >> but is full of absurdities and contradictions." > >> >> >> [E. Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"] > >> >> > >> >> > Sorry, Darrell, no one can fake writing like Isaiah. ??He was the > >> >> > only one who wrote the way he wrote. > >> >> > Robert B. Winn > >> >> > >> >> How can you make statements like that? ??You can't read the Hebrew it > >> >> was written in. ??Even several of my bibles explicity state that > >> >> Isaiah was written by a minimum of three different schools or > >> >> persons. ??The grammar and syntax varies in style (and content) among > >> >> those writers. You can't read the originals, nor understand the fine > >> >> nuances of the Hebrew language. ??Can you name any real biblical > >> >> scholar of today who shares your viewpoint? > >> >> > >> >> Your own LDS scholars do not agree with you. ??Note: "John Tvedtnes, > >> >> senior project manager for FARMS, has written technical studies on > >> >> Hebraisms and Isaiah variants in the Book of Mormon." which can be > >> >> found athttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/cpoint10-2.html. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Later, > >> >> Darrell Stec ?? ?? ??dars...@neo.rr.com > >> >> > >> > I do not really care what some college boys think. The key to Isaiah > >> > is in the pattern of the words. Same pattern as Matthew 6:9-13. > >> > Robert B. Winn > >> > >> What arrogance!!!! You who admittedly have little to no education > >> dismisses with the stroke of a keyboard what biblical scholars of his > >> own faith have researched. What biblical scholars do you think have no > >> education? Do you live in the Deep South Bible Belt. You would be at > >> home by all those ignoramuses that oft repeat, "Book larnin' ain't > >> nuthin'" > >> > >> Besides you are utterly daft........ > > > >I doubt Americans in general know the meaning of this very English > >expression > > Then let's try it in Australian vernacular: "a total fuckwit" Aaaah they will get that one Mate > > > : > > -- Quote
Guest jl Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On Feb 20, 11:06 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: [...] > > Atheists are the ones who are the greatest abusers of women. > Robert B. Winn Cite? Or did you just pull another one out of your hat? Quote
Guest jl Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On Feb 20, 11:21 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On 20 Feb 2007 20:04:21 -0800, in alt.atheism > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > <1172030661.281379.130...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > >On Feb 20, 10:13?am, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> On Feb 19, 10:10 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > >> > Well, I am probably less impressed by lawyers than Brigham Young was. > > >> Judging by his many lawsuits and his comments about the lawyers > >> afterwards, he hated them. ou can read the particulars in an article > >> by Orma Linford, "The Mormons, the Law, and the Territory of Utah," > >> and in many of Young's writings. > > >> If it is any consolation to you I'm sure the Mormons had reason to > >> distrust law and lawyers from their many bad experiences in Missouri > >> and Illinois. > > >> > Since you know so much about law, perhaps you could tell us your > >> > interpretation of the sixth amendment to the Constitution of the > >> > United States. > > >> A conscientious writer could spend a year writing about the 6th > >> Amendment, it is so rich with caselaw and judicial gloss. > >oreover, > >> because of the 19th century's 14th Amendment, the 6th Amendment is now > >> applied to the states and their subdivisions, including Utah and SLC. > > >> Legal issues: > >> pretrial rights > >> venue > >> in gremio legis > >> speedy trial > >> open proceedings, no closed courtrooms, no secret trials > >> impartial jury of peers > >> jurisdiction > >> no ex post facto > >> notice of charges in full particulars of facts and law so that accused > >> may prepare his defense > >> opportunity to be heard > >> confrontation with witnesses, no trial in absentia > >> subpoena power to compel attendance of witness and to bring documents > >> and things > >> (subpoena ad testificandum, subpoena duces tecum) > >> right to attorney > > >> What part of it piques your curiosity? r is it the whole damn thing? > > >> AMENDMENT VI. > >> Right to speedy trial, witnesses, etc. > >> In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a > >> speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and > >> district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district > >> shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of > >> the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the > >> witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining > >> witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his > >> defence. > > >> Now, Robbie, don't be sending me off another one of those wild goose > >> chases. > >> We're talking about whether there is a god, and btw the brains who > >> drafted the 6th did not believe in a god, at least not in an > >> intervenor who paid any attention to the affairs of humanity. > > >The part that says in all criminal prosecutions, the accused has a > >right to trial by jury. Lawyers claim this means that in most > >criminal prosecutions, the accused has no such right. > >Robert B. Winn > > Could you show me where the Supreme Court said that you don't have the > right to a trial by jury in criminal prosecutions?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I don't know that the Supreme Court has addressed the issue lately. In my state of North Carolina the right is preserved by de novo appeal to a jury from an adverse decision by a judge. In which case if you are convicted the judge will punish you by a sentence much harsher than that of the court below. I note that in Tennessee if you appeal from a guilty verdict by a judge, in a court where the officer can testify to hearsay and summarize the testimony of all the other witnesses while you object until you are red in the face, you are required to pay a filing fee up front. That, imho, is unconstitutional, a violation of the 6th Amendment. I have read that in other states, like Nevada, the accused is subverted by various devices from asserting his 6th Amendment right to jury trial. I do know that in many appellate court decisions nowadays, where the courts have been packed with rightwing ideologs, doubleplusthink, doublespeak, and Ingsoc have crept into the decisions. Quote
Guest jl Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On Feb 21, 1:11 am, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote: > "Free Lunch" wrote in messagenews:8s4nt2h6gpnmh27021i30ngvod1d0n6247@4ax.com... > > "Andrew" wrote: > > >>Religion may be defined as a personal set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices relating > >>to one's understanding of a deity. Atheists do not believe in Deity (God). They can > >>not -prove- this. It is their BELIEF. It is in fact therefore their religion as affirmed > >>by the courts. > > > So what. You cannot prove that you are not really controlled by Satan. > > So, Mr. Lunch denies God but openly acknowledges Satan - his true master. You religious nuts love your logical fallacies as much as you love your fallacy in the sky. Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:57:00 -0500, "Dan@V.A." <danW@bellsouth.net> wrote: >You are mincing words, even the Largest Mormon Church condemns >these off-shoot Mormon groups. "These off-shoot Mormon groups" are still Christians, and they don't condemn their own practices, so not all Christians condemn these practices. Whether you consider them Christian or not is irrelevant. > Certainly, those practicing polygamy >do not condemn the practice, nor did I say they did. They're Christian, and you said ALL Christians condemned the practice, so you said that they condemned it. > Do you imply that >other Christians condone the practice of polygamy? That wasn't your claim. Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 04:22:10 GMT, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >On 20 Feb 2007 20:06:22 -0800, in alt.atheism >"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in ><1172030782.372449.111750@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>: >>On Feb 20, 2:22?pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote: >>> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:51:17 -0500, "D...@V.A." <d...@bellsouth.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >Mormonism and Jehovah witnesses are extremes, far out in their beliefs >>> >and practices. Several Mormon groups in Utah, Arizona Montana and >>> >other states still practice polygamy. This is abuse of women and their >>> >offspring. A practice condemned by all Christians. >>> >>> Not by two Christian sects - Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. >> >>Atheists are the ones who are the greatest abusers of women. > >My, aren't you defensive -- and wrong, of course. Robert posts, therefore he's wrong. Quote
Guest jl Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 On Feb 20, 11:04 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > On Feb 20, 10:13?am, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 10:10 pm, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > Well, I am probably less impressed by lawyers than Brigham Young was. > > > Judging by his many lawsuits and his comments about the lawyers > > afterwards, he hated them. ?You can read the particulars in an article > > by Orma Linford, "The Mormons, the Law, and the Territory of Utah," > > and in many of Young's writings. > > > If it is any consolation to you I'm sure the Mormons had reason to > > distrust law and lawyers from their many bad experiences in Missouri > > and Illinois. > > > > Since you know so much about law, perhaps you could tell us your > > > interpretation of the sixth amendment to the Constitution of the > > > United States. > > > A conscientious writer could spend a year writing about the 6th > > Amendment, it is so rich with caselaw and judicial gloss. ?Moreover, > > because of the 19th century's 14th Amendment, the 6th Amendment is now > > applied to the states and their subdivisions, including Utah and SLC. > > > Legal issues: > > pretrial rights > > venue > > in gremio legis > > speedy trial > > open proceedings, no closed courtrooms, no secret trials > > impartial jury of peers > > jurisdiction > > no ex post facto > > notice of charges in full particulars of facts and law so that accused > > may prepare his defense > > opportunity to be heard > > confrontation with witnesses, no trial in absentia > > subpoena power to compel attendance of witness and to bring documents > > and things > > (subpoena ad testificandum, subpoena duces tecum) > > right to attorney > > > What part of it piques your curiosity? ?Or is it the whole damn thing? > > > AMENDMENT VI. > > Right to speedy trial, witnesses, etc. > > In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a > > speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and > > district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district > > shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of > > the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the > > witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining > > witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his > > defence. > > > Now, Robbie, don't be sending me off another one of those wild goose > > chases. > > We're talking about whether there is a god, and btw the brains who > > drafted the 6th did not believe in a god, at least not in an > > intervenor who paid any attention to the affairs of humanity. > > The part that says in all criminal prosecutions, the accused has a > right to trial by jury. Lawyers claim this means that in most > criminal prosecutions, the accused has no such right. > Of course, the law is what the judges say it is. Our government can at pleasure change the definition of "criminal prosecution." See, for example, where Justice O'Connor says the feds and states don't need a jury for petty offenses: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-6465.ZO.html BTW, Robbie, your definition of the cockatrice is in error. Here again the OT and one or more of the several Isaiahs stole from pagan mythology. This is the cockatrice: cockatrice - monster hatched by a reptile from a cock's egg; able to kill with a glance Remember, Robbie: "Religion is based on the fears of the many and the cleverness of the few." -- Stendhal Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 "Dan@V.A." <danW@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:bBKCh.20344$6a.3708@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message > news:5411o6F1u4oblU1@mid.individual.net... >> >> "Dan@V.A." <danW@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >> news:8vkCh.12996$O8.6455@bignews2.bellsouth.net... >> > >> > >> > >> > It seems to me that atheist who invade Religious Newsgroups >> > with their challenges, insults and attacks on Christians and the >> > Christian Religion are in reality expressing their great hope. >> > IE _the hope that there is no God. >> >> That's nice. >> > Given the two choices: > 1) A CREATOR exist and he created the universe > 2) There is no god, therefore, the Universe could not > have been created by a God. >> > I believe to the totally _unbiased_ the evidence, Which is what, exactly? I believe > comes down on the side of those people who believe in the > existence of God. Why? > It may or may _not_ have been the God > of the Bible. Okay, where's the evidence? -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
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