Guest bob young Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Pastor Frank wrote: > "flightlessvacuum" <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1171931732.535573.172060@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... > > On Feb 20, 12:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > >> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation on > >> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, > >> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's right! > >> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. > > > > Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. > > > Are you trying to quote Existentialist Sartre? This is what he said: To > say one does not believe in God is like saying one does not believe in > baldness. no hair, no god > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Padraic Brown wrote: > On 20 Feb 2007 23:20:03 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> > wrote: > > > > > > >Padraic Brown wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:26:16 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions, > >> >human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction, > >> >barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and > >> >certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally > >> >untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. > >> > >> There's a lot of good ethical and moral foundation in there, too, but > >> you always leave that sort of thing out of your diatribes. The myths > >> are generally inspiring, often teaching good behaviour traits and are > >> usually engaging stories. The Bible isn't intended to be "accurate > >> history". On the whole, it is actually pretty good fiction. There is a > >> fairly recent retelling of the Bible's subtext (Richard Elliott > >> Friedman's "The Hidden Book in the Bible"); once you get away from the > >> Bible as a Bible and look at it as literature, even a Bible-fixated > >> "atheist" such as yourself can enjoy what merits it offers. > >> > >> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation on > >> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, > >> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's right! > >> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. > > > >If you want to wax lyrical about verbiage, > >read Emmett's final line - it speaks volumes > > > >"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is > >human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind > >cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an old > >religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and never has > >been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in its > >simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness." > >[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields] > > Sure, all warm and fuzzy. All atheism _really_ is is the lack of > belief in God. Quite simple, really. Take an atheist and a theist -- > they can be equally endowed with "human concern" and "intellectual > honesty" and "sane in a world of madness". The above does show that > people can take comfort in a wide variety of beliefs. > > It also shows us that atheists have _not_ learned to let go of > egocentrism and sense of superiority that have, unhappily, attached to > religion. How arrogant is the position that one person can claim a > superior human concern, just because he does not believe in God! A nice picture of average regilionist qalities you paint there Pediatric, I wonder where the inspiration came from ? > > > Padraic > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:ca2dnbWUv_62oEDYnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45dc69c2$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1171932846.054146.59080@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... >>> On Feb 19, 3:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:26:16 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, >>>> >contradictions, >>>> >human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, >>>> >destruction, >>>> >barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and >>>> >certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and >>>> >totally >>>> >untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. >>>> >>>> There's a lot of good ethical and moral foundation in there, too, but >>>> you always leave that sort of thing out of your diatribes. The myths >>>> are generally inspiring, often teaching good behaviour traits and are >>>> usually engaging stories. The Bible isn't intended to be "accurate >>>> history". On the whole, it is actually pretty good fiction. There is a >>>> fairly recent retelling of the Bible's subtext (Richard Elliott >>>> Friedman's "The Hidden Book in the Bible"); once you get away from the >>>> Bible as a Bible and look at it as literature, even a Bible-fixated >>>> "atheist" such as yourself can enjoy what merits it offers. >>> >>> As an atheist who loves literaure, I had to read the Bible in order to >>> understand all the references. This is just my opinion, but if you're >>> telling me the Bible is good fiction (I agree that it's fiction) then >>> Celine DIon is a good singer. I realize it's ancient writing, and as >>> such holds a certain historical interest, but I think the writing is >>> generally strident, contradictory, repetitive, and boring when it's >>> not psychedelically weird. I think there are many examples of earlier >>> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >>> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >> >> How can you "love literature" and miss the extraordinary Philosophy of >> life explained and demonstrated by Jesus Christ entirely? > > There is Great Wisdom in the Teachings of Jesus but they are far from > being original nor even new, but are statements of Universal Wisdom. All > the faiths of the World contain a portion of the Divine Truth and none has > all of it. Christ isn't about "Divine Truth" nor "Universal Wisdom" etc. etc. Christ is about the quality of one's actions on the scale of good vs. evil, and that our Father which is in heaven loves us enough to lay down His life for us while were yet sinners and totally unworthy of His love. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:2ZqdnQzn6M4ToEDYnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45dc69ce$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> "flightlessvacuum" <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1171933682.679541.40990@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >>> On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think there are many examples of earlier >>>> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >>>> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >>> >>> I really enjoyed studying the works of Homer in my youth, far superior >>> to any of the fiction and fables contained within the bible. >>> >> Are you trying to compare a work of fiction with ancient Semitic >> social and moral philosophy? Perhaps you can't even see the difference, >> can you? >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > Being as the Bible is mostly a series of Books of Fiction the comparison > is correct. Myth is the religious fiction of the People who write it. The Bible is written mostly in the poetic format, and therefore is as much "fiction" as any poetry. Only those severely challenged mentally would call philosophical poetry "fiction". -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:36CdndpiBMAko0DYnZ2dnUVZ_qGjnZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45dc69dc$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> <thedeviliam@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1171945953.785065.293000@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... >>> On Feb 19, 6:38 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles. >>>> >>>> There isn't much else to go on. What exactly is your point? >>> >>> Do Christians really totally based their beliefs on the Bible? Most of >>> them haven't even read the damn thing, and the ones that have ignore >>> whatever they don't like. You can't "totally" base your beliefs on >>> something that contradicts itself. >>> >> Categorical in your condemnation, aren't you? Sorry to hear that >> Christians don't live up to your exalted expectations, but then I bet >> nobody does. The Bible is ancient Hebrew social and moral philosophy, >> written mostly in the poetic format. Contradictions are mostly the result >> of one's inability to interpret constructively. Some excel in that, for >> that is what they are looking for and what's right escapes them >> completely. Are you that kind of person? > > Frank first off only the so called Old Testament was written in Hebrew and > it is never meant to be read literally. With Ancient Hebrew there is no > precise meaning to the words and in fact there is an old saying that Torah > speaks to each Generation anew and it is up to those who read it to > discover the meaning within. Now the New Testament was written in Greek a > language that is not really suited to transmitting Divine Wisdom and is > thus more precisely translated, but even here people have managed to get > it wrong because of the changes made to the texts over the Centuries by > both the Scribes and the Church Fathers that did not like what was written > when it did not go with what they believed. It's clear enough for billions, why not for you? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Chris Morris Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:45dee3ba$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:ca2dnbWUv_62oEDYnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@adelphia.com... >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >> news:45dc69c2$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>> "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:1171932846.054146.59080@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Feb 19, 3:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:26:16 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, >>>>> >contradictions, >>>>> >human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, >>>>> >destruction, >>>>> >barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and >>>>> >certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and >>>>> >totally >>>>> >untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. >>>>> >>>>> There's a lot of good ethical and moral foundation in there, too, but >>>>> you always leave that sort of thing out of your diatribes. The myths >>>>> are generally inspiring, often teaching good behaviour traits and are >>>>> usually engaging stories. The Bible isn't intended to be "accurate >>>>> history". On the whole, it is actually pretty good fiction. There is a >>>>> fairly recent retelling of the Bible's subtext (Richard Elliott >>>>> Friedman's "The Hidden Book in the Bible"); once you get away from the >>>>> Bible as a Bible and look at it as literature, even a Bible-fixated >>>>> "atheist" such as yourself can enjoy what merits it offers. >>>> >>>> As an atheist who loves literaure, I had to read the Bible in order to >>>> understand all the references. This is just my opinion, but if you're >>>> telling me the Bible is good fiction (I agree that it's fiction) then >>>> Celine DIon is a good singer. I realize it's ancient writing, and as >>>> such holds a certain historical interest, but I think the writing is >>>> generally strident, contradictory, repetitive, and boring when it's >>>> not psychedelically weird. I think there are many examples of earlier >>>> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >>>> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >>> >>> How can you "love literature" and miss the extraordinary Philosophy >>> of life explained and demonstrated by Jesus Christ entirely? >> >> There is Great Wisdom in the Teachings of Jesus but they are far from >> being original nor even new, but are statements of Universal Wisdom. All >> the faiths of the World contain a portion of the Divine Truth and none >> has all of it. > Christ isn't about "Divine Truth" nor "Universal Wisdom" etc. etc. > Christ is about the quality of one's actions on the scale of good vs. > evil, and that our Father which is in heaven loves us enough to lay down > His life for us while were yet sinners and totally unworthy of His love. As always Frank you and I will not be seeing eye to eye on this, but that is because we approach it from different points. I was pointing out that the teaching of Jesus are nothing new they are a part of every faith throughout History. You cling to this need for your God and his messenger to have been the only one to ever think of this and that somehow this is a unique message when the in reality it could not be further from the truth. There is no one way to the Divine and holding to that does not make it so. Quote
Guest Chris Morris Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:45dee3be$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:2ZqdnQzn6M4ToEDYnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@adelphia.com... >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >> news:45dc69ce$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>> "flightlessvacuum" <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:1171933682.679541.40990@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think there are many examples of earlier >>>>> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >>>>> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >>>> >>>> I really enjoyed studying the works of Homer in my youth, far superior >>>> to any of the fiction and fables contained within the bible. >>>> >>> Are you trying to compare a work of fiction with ancient Semitic >>> social and moral philosophy? Perhaps you can't even see the difference, >>> can you? >>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> >> Being as the Bible is mostly a series of Books of Fiction the comparison >> is correct. Myth is the religious fiction of the People who write it. > The Bible is written mostly in the poetic format, and therefore is as > much "fiction" as any poetry. Only those severely challenged mentally > would call philosophical poetry "fiction". It is fiction in that it is not History or Science but philosophy and religion and contains the Universal Truths that you of course think is just exclusive to your own faith. Quote
Guest Chris Morris Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:45dee3c1$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:36CdndpiBMAko0DYnZ2dnUVZ_qGjnZ2d@adelphia.com... >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >> news:45dc69dc$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>> <thedeviliam@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:1171945953.785065.293000@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Feb 19, 6:38 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles. >>>>> >>>>> There isn't much else to go on. What exactly is your point? >>>> >>>> Do Christians really totally based their beliefs on the Bible? Most of >>>> them haven't even read the damn thing, and the ones that have ignore >>>> whatever they don't like. You can't "totally" base your beliefs on >>>> something that contradicts itself. >>>> >>> Categorical in your condemnation, aren't you? Sorry to hear that >>> Christians don't live up to your exalted expectations, but then I bet >>> nobody does. The Bible is ancient Hebrew social and moral philosophy, >>> written mostly in the poetic format. Contradictions are mostly the >>> result of one's inability to interpret constructively. Some excel in >>> that, for that is what they are looking for and what's right escapes >>> them completely. Are you that kind of person? >> >> Frank first off only the so called Old Testament was written in Hebrew >> and it is never meant to be read literally. With Ancient Hebrew there is >> no precise meaning to the words and in fact there is an old saying that >> Torah speaks to each Generation anew and it is up to those who read it to >> discover the meaning within. Now the New Testament was written in Greek a >> language that is not really suited to transmitting Divine Wisdom and is >> thus more precisely translated, but even here people have managed to get >> it wrong because of the changes made to the texts over the Centuries by >> both the Scribes and the Church Fathers that did not like what was >> written when it did not go with what they believed. > It's clear enough for billions, why not for you? > Most Christians do not make the Spiritual Error of believing they can know the full will of the Divine by reading a book written by men for men of a long distant time. They look for the Divine message that speaks to the heart and the soul and not to words written on the page that hide the Divine Truths. Quote
Guest Dubh Ghall Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:32:37 -0500, "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote: >It is fiction in that it is not History or Science but philosophy There aint much philosophy in there either, perhaps Ecclesiastes, and Proverbs, but that is about it. > and >religion Oh yes, lots of mythology. >and contains the Universal Truths List them. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1172081769.902448.177620@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 20, 11:55 pm, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote: >> "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1171932846.054146.59080@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... >> > On Feb 19, 3:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:26:16 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, >> >> >contradictions, >> >> >human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, >> >> >destruction, >> >> >barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and >> >> >certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and >> >> >totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. >> >> >> There's a lot of good ethical and moral foundation in there, too, but >> >> you always leave that sort of thing out of your diatribes. The myths >> >> are generally inspiring, often teaching good behaviour traits and are >> >> usually engaging stories. The Bible isn't intended to be "accurate >> >> history". On the whole, it is actually pretty good fiction. There is a >> >> fairly recent retelling of the Bible's subtext (Richard Elliott >> >> Friedman's "The Hidden Book in the Bible"); once you get away from the >> >> Bible as a Bible and look at it as literature, even a Bible-fixated >> >> "atheist" such as yourself can enjoy what merits it offers. >> >> > As an atheist who loves literaure, I had to read the Bible in order to >> > understand all the references. This is just my opinion, but if you're >> > telling me the Bible is good fiction (I agree that it's fiction) then >> > Celine DIon is a good singer. I realize it's ancient writing, and as >> > such holds a certain historical interest, but I think the writing is >> > generally strident, contradictory, repetitive, and boring when it's >> > not psychedelically weird. I think there are many examples of earlier >> > and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >> > Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >> >> How can you "love literature" and miss the extraordinary Philosophy >> of >> life explained and demonstrated by Jesus Christ entirely? > > I didn't miss it, Frank, I just wan't impressed. Jesus seemed like a > prissy prick to me. And read Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A > Christian" for some criticisms into the character of Jesus Christ, he > said it far better than I ever could. Give me the philosophy of life > explained and demonstrated by Shakespeare any day. > And I do love literature. How can you bury your nose in the Bible and > never experience the writings of Jane Austen, Laurence Sterne, > Fielding, TS Eliot, Homer, Faulkner, and plenty of other brilliant > authors far superior to the anally retentive goatherders with an > agenda who conjured up the Bible? > Those are required reading at most schools, and none of their authors are much into philosophy. Shakespeare did hit upon one important part of the puzzle of life when he said: Life is of the stuff dreams are made of. But most authors follow the ancient Greek tradition of illustrating the lives of fate driven people, who act in the throws of their own folly. Christ is altogether different and what He said deals with how people feel about things. He knew, that people mostly do what they feel like and seldom bother to think. Christ changes people's feelings for the better, and thus the quality of their actions improves also, ....that all despite the musings of Bertie Russell, whose actions btw demonstrated moral depravity. "anally retentive goat herders with an agenda indeed!!!!! Are they any worse than you chanting atheist mantras "with an agenda"? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1172081896.031072.314810@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 21, 3:22 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote: >> "flightlessvacuum" <flightlessvacuums...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1171933682.679541.40990@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...> On Feb 20, >> 1:54 pm, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> I think there are many examples of earlier >> >> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >> >> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >> >> > I really enjoyed studying the works of Homer in my youth, far superior >> > to any of the fiction and fables contained within the bible. >> >> Are you trying to compare a work of fiction with ancient Semitic >> social >> and moral philosophy? Perhaps you can't even see the difference, can you? > > Follow the thread back, Frank. It was Padraic Brown (another theist) > who was comparing the Bible to works of literature. > It's just that you can't interpret ancient Semitic philosophical poetry constructively. It's like a love song, meaningless to people who don't love, but one that can move most loving people to tears of joy, ...for some a difficult act to follow indeed!!! -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1172082181.047835.249350@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 21, 3:19 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote: >> "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1171932846.054146.59080@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... >> >> > So if the Bible isn't accurate why base your life on it? >> >> Tell us what "accuracy" you need to implement Christ's directives >> below. >> >> Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love >> one >> another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. >> Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my >> disciples, >> if ye have love one to another. >> Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one >> another, >> as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay >> down >> his life for his friends. >> Jesus in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command..." > > I need evidence that god existed, and that Jesus was divine, and > evidence that the stories in the Bible are fact, otherwise I'll just > continue to try to get along with people without the threats from a > suipernatural being. And if we all managed to do this, then there > would be no need for anyone to lay down their lives. Why are you so > obsessed about that? > That is indeed primitive thinking. Divinity is an opinion not a fact. Had you asked Jesus: Are you divine? He would have answered: There is only one divine and that is God, who is a Spirit. You again: Is that Spirit supernatural? Jesus: Yes. About as supernatural as everything else is, if you care to look. But why would you fault your Father which is in heaven for telling you that incontinent living, like drugs etc will burn you out and make your life short, brutish and nasty as hell? "Threat" indeed!!!! -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:sH1Dh.18106$B8.6938@bignews6.bellsouth.net... > "Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:67kkt255767b21pl9a9p2rgd76e0n3gfoa@4ax.com... >> On 19 Feb 2007 16:35:32 -0800, "flightlessvacuum" >> <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote: >>>On Feb 20, 12:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation on >>>> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, >>>> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's right! >>>> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. >>> >>>Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. >> >> Apples and oranges, really. A real atheist wouldn't even engage in the >> above kind of nonsense. There would be no need for him to continually >> press the point that there is no God nor would there be a need for him >> to continually try to disparage the beliefs of others. For Bill M, his >> "atheism" is faith of a curious kind. >> >> Padraic > > In your idiotic 'opinion' just like your religion! > Religion is Bills favourite straw man to kick around. It's his only joy in life apparently. I think he needs a godly woman to set him straight, but then Bill may be too old for that and is looking forward to a speedy descend. See below for some atheist humour. Pastor Frank M E M O R A N D U M From: The Broomleigh Baptist Salvation Evaluation Committee (Subcommittee for the Irretrievably Lost, whether Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Liberal Atheists, the Sexually Incontinent, or Unrepentant Serial Killers) To: Bill Re: In the matter of your Salvation __________________________________________________ As the vessel of the Lord's perfect message of boundless wrath and annoyance with His imperfect creations, the matter of your wistful hopes of salvation was brought before the full board of the Broomleigh Baptist Salvation Evaluation Committee on this very day. After a suitable time for contemplation, no matter how seemingly brief, it was determined by unanimous consent of all True Christians Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 "Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:n5apt21m2nh39e1tldabsof6fmiiitqq0t@4ax.com... > On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:29:04 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> > wrote: >>"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>news:67kkt255767b21pl9a9p2rgd76e0n3gfoa@4ax.com... >>> On 19 Feb 2007 16:35:32 -0800, "flightlessvacuum" >>> <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>On Feb 20, 12:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation on >>>>> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, >>>>> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's right! >>>>> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. >>>> >>>>Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. >>> >>> Apples and oranges, really. A real atheist wouldn't even engage in the >>> above kind of nonsense. There would be no need for him to continually >>> press the point that there is no God nor would there be a need for him >>> to continually try to disparage the beliefs of others. For Bill M, his >>> "atheism" is faith of a curious kind. >> >>In your idiotic 'opinion' just like your religion! > > He's paranoid. We don't "disparage the beliefs of others". Like most > theists he has neither the common sense nor courtesy to keep his > beliefs to himself. > Sorry, but being paranoid about being sent to hell for all eternity is an atheist nightmare, they don't want to be reminded of. That's why you want censorship and deny the free speech rights to others. I would suggest you stop reading posts in our pristine and hallowed Christian NGs. We wouldn't want to be held responsible for your apoplectic fits and untimely demise. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 "Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:g0ppt2l3q08bc4b90dg6i19ivn7t1il15o@4ax.com... > On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:18:07 -0500, Christopher A.Lee > <calee@optonline.net> wrote: >>On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:29:04 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> >>wrote: >>>"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>news:67kkt255767b21pl9a9p2rgd76e0n3gfoa@4ax.com... >>>> On 19 Feb 2007 16:35:32 -0800, "flightlessvacuum" >>>> <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>On Feb 20, 12:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation on >>>>>> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, >>>>>> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's right! >>>>>> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. >>>>> >>>>>Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. >>>> >>>> Apples and oranges, really. A real atheist wouldn't even engage in the >>>> above kind of nonsense. There would be no need for him to continually >>>> press the point that there is no God nor would there be a need for him >>>> to continually try to disparage the beliefs of others. For Bill M, his >>>> "atheism" is faith of a curious kind. >>> >>>In your idiotic 'opinion' just like your religion! >> >>He's paranoid. We don't "disparage the beliefs of others". > > Paranoid? THat's a laugh. Go study the definition of "paranoid" to > learn what it really means. As a group, "atheists" _do_ disparage the > beliefs of others. You yourself provide a good example of this. Review > how many times the beliefs of others have been called "delusional" or > "moronic" in the last couple weeks. > >> Like most >>theists he has neither the common sense nor courtesy to keep his >>beliefs to himself. > > You have absolutely no clue what my beliefs are, apart from the few > that have been appropriate to the discussion. I really don't recall > ever discussing them with you. If you don't like people discussing > their beliefs, you don't have to read these kinds of threads. > Christopher has been agitating for the abolition of the free speech provision in the constitution and the imposition of strict censorship laws for years. But praise the Lord, apart from outlawing religion in schools, he is making little headway. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 "bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message news:45DD267D.C7E6E557@netvigator.com... > Neil Kelsey wrote: >> On Feb 20, 11:55 pm, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote: >> > "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > news:1171932846.054146.59080@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... >> > > On Feb 19, 3:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:26:16 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> >> > >> wrote: >> > >> > >> >The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, >> > >> >contradictions, >> > >> >human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, >> > >> >destruction, >> > >> >barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and >> > >> >certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and >> > >> >totally >> > >> >untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. >> > >> > >> There's a lot of good ethical and moral foundation in there, too, >> > >> but >> > >> you always leave that sort of thing out of your diatribes. The myths >> > >> are generally inspiring, often teaching good behaviour traits and >> > >> are >> > >> usually engaging stories. The Bible isn't intended to be "accurate >> > >> history". On the whole, it is actually pretty good fiction. There is >> > >> a >> > >> fairly recent retelling of the Bible's subtext (Richard Elliott >> > >> Friedman's "The Hidden Book in the Bible"); once you get away from >> > >> the >> > >> Bible as a Bible and look at it as literature, even a Bible-fixated >> > >> "atheist" such as yourself can enjoy what merits it offers. >> > >> > > As an atheist who loves literaure, I had to read the Bible in order >> > > to >> > > understand all the references. This is just my opinion, but if you're >> > > telling me the Bible is good fiction (I agree that it's fiction) then >> > > Celine DIon is a good singer. I realize it's ancient writing, and as >> > > such holds a certain historical interest, but I think the writing is >> > > generally strident, contradictory, repetitive, and boring when it's >> > > not psychedelically weird. I think there are many examples of earlier >> > > and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >> > > Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >> > >> > How can you "love literature" and miss the extraordinary Philosophy >> > of >> > life explained and demonstrated by Jesus Christ entirely? >> >> I didn't miss it, Frank, I just wan't impressed. Jesus seemed like a >> prissy prick to me. And read Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A >> Christian" for some criticisms into the character of Jesus Christ, he >> said it far better than I ever could. Give me the philosophy of life >> explained and demonstrated by Shakespeare any day. > > The whole conception of God is a conception derived from the ancient > Oriental > despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men. When you hear > people > in church debasing themselves and saying that they are miserable sinners, > and all > the rest of it, it seems contemptible and not worthy of self-respecting > human > beings. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We > ought to > make the best we can of the world, and if it is not so good as we wish, > after all > it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all > these ages. > A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a > regretful hankering after the past, or a fettering of the free > intelligence by > the words uttered long ago by ignorant men. > Bertrand Russell (W.N.C.p23) > Most of these sentiments are well represented by Christ, except, that God represents an overriding principles which no man-made laws can put to naught. I.e. this is enshrined in the American constitution. "The proposition that all men were created equal" is one of those God-given rights, which then cannot be abolished by man. Therefore what is given by God is a divine right which cannot be abolished by man, however what is given by man, can be taken away by men. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:X4SdndO6FucFlULYnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45dee3ba$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message >> news:ca2dnbWUv_62oEDYnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@adelphia.com... >>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >>> news:45dc69c2$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>>> "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:1171932846.054146.59080@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On Feb 19, 3:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:26:16 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, >>>>>> >contradictions, >>>>>> >human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, >>>>>> >destruction, >>>>>> >barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and >>>>>> >certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and >>>>>> >totally >>>>>> >untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction. >>>>>> >>>>>> There's a lot of good ethical and moral foundation in there, too, but >>>>>> you always leave that sort of thing out of your diatribes. The myths >>>>>> are generally inspiring, often teaching good behaviour traits and are >>>>>> usually engaging stories. The Bible isn't intended to be "accurate >>>>>> history". On the whole, it is actually pretty good fiction. There is >>>>>> a >>>>>> fairly recent retelling of the Bible's subtext (Richard Elliott >>>>>> Friedman's "The Hidden Book in the Bible"); once you get away from >>>>>> the >>>>>> Bible as a Bible and look at it as literature, even a Bible-fixated >>>>>> "atheist" such as yourself can enjoy what merits it offers. >>>>> >>>>> As an atheist who loves literaure, I had to read the Bible in order to >>>>> understand all the references. This is just my opinion, but if you're >>>>> telling me the Bible is good fiction (I agree that it's fiction) then >>>>> Celine DIon is a good singer. I realize it's ancient writing, and as >>>>> such holds a certain historical interest, but I think the writing is >>>>> generally strident, contradictory, repetitive, and boring when it's >>>>> not psychedelically weird. I think there are many examples of earlier >>>>> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >>>>> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >>>> >>>> How can you "love literature" and miss the extraordinary Philosophy >>>> of life explained and demonstrated by Jesus Christ entirely? >>> >>> There is Great Wisdom in the Teachings of Jesus but they are far from >>> being original nor even new, but are statements of Universal Wisdom. All >>> the faiths of the World contain a portion of the Divine Truth and none >>> has all of it. >> >> Christ isn't about "Divine Truth" nor "Universal Wisdom" etc. etc. >> Christ is about the quality of one's actions on the scale of good vs. >> evil, and that our Father which is in heaven loves us enough to lay down >> His life for us while were yet sinners and totally unworthy of His love. > > As always Frank you and I will not be seeing eye to eye on this, but that > is because we approach it from different points. I was pointing out that > the teaching of Jesus are nothing new they are a part of every faith > throughout History. You need to finish your sentence! What are you intimating by the above? Perhaps being "nothing new" means invalid to you? Or not worth of consideration and therefore can be dismissed and/or shrugged off? I am of the opinion of Aldous Huxley who wrote: Perennial Philosophy based on the proposition, that the more religions and philosophies emphasise the same points, the more valid these points are. > You cling to this need for your God and his messenger to have been the > only one to ever think of this and that somehow this is a unique message > when the in reality it could not be further from the truth. There is no > one way to the Divine and holding to that does not make it so. That may be true from your perspective, for the "Divine" you advance isn't anything in particular, it's just a buzz word. Christ however advances love as being incorruptible and the only basis on which to make decisions which are good by definition. As a rule, a loving person doesn't act evil, and Christ tells us to be loving and caring above all. We are saved through love, and all that is unloving will be discarded as being inimical to life. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:dqmdnSEwaK5klULYnZ2dnUVZ_rGinZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45dee3be$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message >> news:2ZqdnQzn6M4ToEDYnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@adelphia.com... >>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >>> news:45dc69ce$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>>> "flightlessvacuum" <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:1171933682.679541.40990@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I think there are many examples of earlier >>>>>> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >>>>>> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >>>>> >>>>> I really enjoyed studying the works of Homer in my youth, far superior >>>>> to any of the fiction and fables contained within the bible. >>>> >>>> Are you trying to compare a work of fiction with ancient Semitic >>>> social and moral philosophy? Perhaps you can't even see the difference, >>>> can you? >>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> >>> Being as the Bible is mostly a series of Books of Fiction the comparison >>> is correct. Myth is the religious fiction of the People who write it. >> >> The Bible is written mostly in the poetic format, and therefore is as >> much "fiction" as any poetry. Only those severely challenged mentally >> would call philosophical poetry "fiction". > > It is fiction in that it is not History or Science but philosophy and > religion and contains the Universal Truths that you of course think is > just exclusive to your own faith. I am sure, that lots of stories in the Bible are "fiction" or at best semi-historical, But then they are not meant to be History nor Science, but are mere vehicles to illustrate moral and ethical issues and standards. That in itself does in no way diminish their veracity and importance. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:37mdnVHEvvfulELYnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45dee3c1$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message >> news:36CdndpiBMAko0DYnZ2dnUVZ_qGjnZ2d@adelphia.com... >>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >>> news:45dc69dc$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>>> <thedeviliam@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:1171945953.785065.293000@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On Feb 19, 6:38 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles. >>>>>> >>>>>> There isn't much else to go on. What exactly is your point? >>>>> >>>>> Do Christians really totally based their beliefs on the Bible? Most of >>>>> them haven't even read the damn thing, and the ones that have ignore >>>>> whatever they don't like. You can't "totally" base your beliefs on >>>>> something that contradicts itself. >>>>> >>>> Categorical in your condemnation, aren't you? Sorry to hear that >>>> Christians don't live up to your exalted expectations, but then I bet >>>> nobody does. The Bible is ancient Hebrew social and moral philosophy, >>>> written mostly in the poetic format. Contradictions are mostly the >>>> result of one's inability to interpret constructively. Some excel in >>>> that, for that is what they are looking for and what's right escapes >>>> them completely. Are you that kind of person? >>> >>> Frank first off only the so called Old Testament was written in Hebrew >>> and it is never meant to be read literally. With Ancient Hebrew there is >>> no precise meaning to the words and in fact there is an old saying that >>> Torah speaks to each Generation anew and it is up to those who read it >>> to discover the meaning within. Now the New Testament was written in >>> Greek a language that is not really suited to transmitting Divine Wisdom >>> and is thus more precisely translated, but even here people have managed >>> to get it wrong because of the changes made to the texts over the >>> Centuries by both the Scribes and the Church Fathers that did not like >>> what was written when it did not go with what they believed. >> It's clear enough for billions, why not for you? >> > Most Christians do not make the Spiritual Error of believing they can know > the full will of the Divine by reading a book written by men for men of a > long distant time. They look for the Divine message that speaks to the > heart and the soul and not to words written on the page that hide the > Divine Truths. Communications, despite its limitations are part of the divine plan. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Chris Morris Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:45e0cae1$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > "Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:g0ppt2l3q08bc4b90dg6i19ivn7t1il15o@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:18:07 -0500, Christopher A.Lee >> <calee@optonline.net> wrote: >>>On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:29:04 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> >>>wrote: >>>>"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>news:67kkt255767b21pl9a9p2rgd76e0n3gfoa@4ax.com... >>>>> On 19 Feb 2007 16:35:32 -0800, "flightlessvacuum" >>>>> <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>On Feb 20, 12:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation on >>>>>>> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, >>>>>>> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's >>>>>>> right! >>>>>>> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. >>>>>> >>>>>>Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. >>>>> >>>>> Apples and oranges, really. A real atheist wouldn't even engage in the >>>>> above kind of nonsense. There would be no need for him to continually >>>>> press the point that there is no God nor would there be a need for him >>>>> to continually try to disparage the beliefs of others. For Bill M, his >>>>> "atheism" is faith of a curious kind. >>>> >>>>In your idiotic 'opinion' just like your religion! >>> >>>He's paranoid. We don't "disparage the beliefs of others". >> >> Paranoid? THat's a laugh. Go study the definition of "paranoid" to >> learn what it really means. As a group, "atheists" _do_ disparage the >> beliefs of others. You yourself provide a good example of this. Review >> how many times the beliefs of others have been called "delusional" or >> "moronic" in the last couple weeks. >> >>> Like most >>>theists he has neither the common sense nor courtesy to keep his >>>beliefs to himself. >> >> You have absolutely no clue what my beliefs are, apart from the few >> that have been appropriate to the discussion. I really don't recall >> ever discussing them with you. If you don't like people discussing >> their beliefs, you don't have to read these kinds of threads. >> > Christopher has been agitating for the abolition of the free speech > provision in the constitution and the imposition of strict censorship laws > for years. But praise the Lord, apart from outlawing religion in schools, > he is making little headway. While I agree with you Christopher is a bit of menace to society, there is not now nor has there ever been a ban on religion in school. In fact to speak of History would be impossible without talking of Religion. Also the individuals are free to pray in a non-disruptive manner if they wish and even read their Bible or any Holy book they wish during non-instruction time. There has been great confusion about this at the School level and most of it is unfortunately fueled by those making the false claim that the Supreme Court outlawed the Bible, Prayer and God from School. This never happened, but what did happen was an end to forced prayer, forced Bible study and Forced reverence to any God. Of course there are notable exceptions for instance the illegal insertion of Under God into what was otherwise a secular pledge, but I have never been for forced patriotism either. Lastly I leave you with this thought, for as long as their are Tests in School there will always be Prayer. Quote
Guest Chris Morris Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:45e0caed$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:37mdnVHEvvfulELYnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@adelphia.com... >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >> news:45dee3c1$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>> "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message >>> news:36CdndpiBMAko0DYnZ2dnUVZ_qGjnZ2d@adelphia.com... >>>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >>>> news:45dc69dc$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>>>> <thedeviliam@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:1171945953.785065.293000@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Feb 19, 6:38 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There isn't much else to go on. What exactly is your point? >>>>>> >>>>>> Do Christians really totally based their beliefs on the Bible? Most >>>>>> of >>>>>> them haven't even read the damn thing, and the ones that have ignore >>>>>> whatever they don't like. You can't "totally" base your beliefs on >>>>>> something that contradicts itself. >>>>>> >>>>> Categorical in your condemnation, aren't you? Sorry to hear that >>>>> Christians don't live up to your exalted expectations, but then I bet >>>>> nobody does. The Bible is ancient Hebrew social and moral philosophy, >>>>> written mostly in the poetic format. Contradictions are mostly the >>>>> result of one's inability to interpret constructively. Some excel in >>>>> that, for that is what they are looking for and what's right escapes >>>>> them completely. Are you that kind of person? >>>> >>>> Frank first off only the so called Old Testament was written in Hebrew >>>> and it is never meant to be read literally. With Ancient Hebrew there >>>> is no precise meaning to the words and in fact there is an old saying >>>> that Torah speaks to each Generation anew and it is up to those who >>>> read it to discover the meaning within. Now the New Testament was >>>> written in Greek a language that is not really suited to transmitting >>>> Divine Wisdom and is thus more precisely translated, but even here >>>> people have managed to get it wrong because of the changes made to the >>>> texts over the Centuries by both the Scribes and the Church Fathers >>>> that did not like what was written when it did not go with what they >>>> believed. >>> It's clear enough for billions, why not for you? >>> >> Most Christians do not make the Spiritual Error of believing they can >> know the full will of the Divine by reading a book written by men for men >> of a long distant time. They look for the Divine message that speaks to >> the heart and the soul and not to words written on the page that hide the >> Divine Truths. > Communications, despite its limitations are part of the divine plan. It helps to not confuse our desires with the Divine will. Quote
Guest Chris Morris Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message news:45e0cae9$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:dqmdnSEwaK5klULYnZ2dnUVZ_rGinZ2d@adelphia.com... >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >> news:45dee3be$0$16331$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>> "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message >>> news:2ZqdnQzn6M4ToEDYnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@adelphia.com... >>>> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >>>> news:45dc69ce$0$16402$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>>>> "flightlessvacuum" <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:1171933682.679541.40990@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Feb 20, 1:54 pm, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there are many examples of earlier >>>>>>> and better writing from other cultures than the Bible. Homer, >>>>>>> Gilgamesh, Monkey (from China), just to name a few. >>>>>> >>>>>> I really enjoyed studying the works of Homer in my youth, far >>>>>> superior >>>>>> to any of the fiction and fables contained within the bible. >>>>> >>>>> Are you trying to compare a work of fiction with ancient Semitic >>>>> social and moral philosophy? Perhaps you can't even see the >>>>> difference, can you? >>>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> >>>> Being as the Bible is mostly a series of Books of Fiction the >>>> comparison is correct. Myth is the religious fiction of the People who >>>> write it. >>> >>> The Bible is written mostly in the poetic format, and therefore is as >>> much "fiction" as any poetry. Only those severely challenged mentally >>> would call philosophical poetry "fiction". >> >> It is fiction in that it is not History or Science but philosophy and >> religion and contains the Universal Truths that you of course think is >> just exclusive to your own faith. > I am sure, that lots of stories in the Bible are "fiction" or at best > semi-historical, But then they are not meant to be History nor Science, > but are mere vehicles to illustrate moral and ethical issues and > standards. That in itself does in no way diminish their veracity and > importance. On this we can indeed agree, it is those that insist that the Bible must be the inerrant word of God and thus must be true and taken literally that are at issue. Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:jIOdnUYLVrc6eX3YnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45e0cae1$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> "Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:g0ppt2l3q08bc4b90dg6i19ivn7t1il15o@4ax.com... >>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:18:07 -0500, Christopher A.Lee >>> <calee@optonline.net> wrote: >>>>On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:29:04 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> >>>>wrote: >>>>>"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>news:67kkt255767b21pl9a9p2rgd76e0n3gfoa@4ax.com... >>>>>> On 19 Feb 2007 16:35:32 -0800, "flightlessvacuum" >>>>>> <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>On Feb 20, 12:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, >>>>>>>> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's >>>>>>>> right! >>>>>>>> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apples and oranges, really. A real atheist wouldn't even engage in >>>>>> the >>>>>> above kind of nonsense. There would be no need for him to continually >>>>>> press the point that there is no God nor would there be a need for >>>>>> him >>>>>> to continually try to disparage the beliefs of others. For Bill M, >>>>>> his >>>>>> "atheism" is faith of a curious kind. >>>>> >>>>>In your idiotic 'opinion' just like your religion! >>>> >>>>He's paranoid. We don't "disparage the beliefs of others". >>> >>> Paranoid? THat's a laugh. Go study the definition of "paranoid" to >>> learn what it really means. As a group, "atheists" _do_ disparage the >>> beliefs of others. You yourself provide a good example of this. Review >>> how many times the beliefs of others have been called "delusional" or >>> "moronic" in the last couple weeks. >>> >>>> Like most >>>>theists he has neither the common sense nor courtesy to keep his >>>>beliefs to himself. >>> >>> You have absolutely no clue what my beliefs are, apart from the few >>> that have been appropriate to the discussion. I really don't recall >>> ever discussing them with you. If you don't like people discussing >>> their beliefs, you don't have to read these kinds of threads. >>> >> Christopher has been agitating for the abolition of the free speech >> provision in the constitution and the imposition of strict censorship >> laws for years. But praise the Lord, apart from outlawing religion in >> schools, he is making little headway. > > While I agree with you Christopher is a bit of menace to society, there is > not now nor has there ever been a ban on religion in school. In fact to > speak of History would be impossible without talking of Religion. Also the > individuals are free to pray in a non-disruptive manner if they wish and > even read their Bible or any Holy book they wish during non-instruction > time. There has been great confusion about this at the School level and > most of it is unfortunately fueled by those making the false claim that > the Supreme Court outlawed the Bible, Prayer and God from School. This > never happened, but what did happen was an end to forced prayer, forced > Bible study and Forced reverence to any God. Of course there are notable > exceptions for instance the illegal insertion of Under God into what was > otherwise a secular pledge, but I have never been for forced patriotism > either. Lastly I leave you with this thought, for as long as their are > Tests in School there will always be Prayer. I see. All books can be proscribed ("forced") reading and study material in class, the Bible being the sole exception, because it makes atheists in class feel uncomfortable. LOL It's time we get back to democracy and government by the people and for the people, instead of government by decrees from an unelected supreme court. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Pastor Frank Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:v4qdnbBhSfKbeH3YnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@adelphia.com... > "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message > news:45e0caed$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> "Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message >> news:37mdnVHEvvfulELYnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@adelphia.com... >>> >>> Most Christians do not make the Spiritual Error of believing they can >>> know the full will of the Divine by reading a book written by men for >>> men of a long distant time. They look for the Divine message that speaks >>> to the heart and the soul and not to words written on the page that hide >>> the Divine Truths. >> >> Communications, despite its limitations are part of the divine plan. > > It helps to not confuse our desires with the Divine will. > What divine will? You mean the one expressed through scripture? Or do you claim to have a direct line to God, needing no books? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Gospel Bretts Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:32:26 +0800, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote: >"Chris Morris" <Draccus@adelphia.net> wrote in message >news:jIOdnUYLVrc6eX3YnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@adelphia.com... >> "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message >> news:45e0cae1$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>> "Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> news:g0ppt2l3q08bc4b90dg6i19ivn7t1il15o@4ax.com... >>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:18:07 -0500, Christopher A.Lee >>>> <calee@optonline.net> wrote: >>>>>On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:29:04 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>news:67kkt255767b21pl9a9p2rgd76e0n3gfoa@4ax.com... >>>>>>> On 19 Feb 2007 16:35:32 -0800, "flightlessvacuum" >>>>>>> <flightlessvacuumster@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>On Feb 20, 12:46 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, you are once again falling into your usual trap of fixation >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the negative. One would think you're really a Moslem or something, >>>>>>>>> trying to prosletyse your own religion over others. Oh, that's >>>>>>>>> right! >>>>>>>>> You're an Atheist trying to prosletyse your religion over others. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apples and oranges, really. A real atheist wouldn't even engage in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> above kind of nonsense. There would be no need for him to continually >>>>>>> press the point that there is no God nor would there be a need for >>>>>>> him >>>>>>> to continually try to disparage the beliefs of others. For Bill M, >>>>>>> his >>>>>>> "atheism" is faith of a curious kind. >>>>>> >>>>>>In your idiotic 'opinion' just like your religion! >>>>> >>>>>He's paranoid. We don't "disparage the beliefs of others". >>>> >>>> Paranoid? THat's a laugh. Go study the definition of "paranoid" to >>>> learn what it really means. As a group, "atheists" _do_ disparage the >>>> beliefs of others. You yourself provide a good example of this. Review >>>> how many times the beliefs of others have been called "delusional" or >>>> "moronic" in the last couple weeks. >>>> >>>>> Like most >>>>>theists he has neither the common sense nor courtesy to keep his >>>>>beliefs to himself. >>>> >>>> You have absolutely no clue what my beliefs are, apart from the few >>>> that have been appropriate to the discussion. I really don't recall >>>> ever discussing them with you. If you don't like people discussing >>>> their beliefs, you don't have to read these kinds of threads. >>>> >>> Christopher has been agitating for the abolition of the free speech >>> provision in the constitution and the imposition of strict censorship >>> laws for years. But praise the Lord, apart from outlawing religion in >>> schools, he is making little headway. >> >> While I agree with you Christopher is a bit of menace to society, there is >> not now nor has there ever been a ban on religion in school. In fact to >> speak of History would be impossible without talking of Religion. Also the >> individuals are free to pray in a non-disruptive manner if they wish and >> even read their Bible or any Holy book they wish during non-instruction >> time. There has been great confusion about this at the School level and >> most of it is unfortunately fueled by those making the false claim that >> the Supreme Court outlawed the Bible, Prayer and God from School. This >> never happened, but what did happen was an end to forced prayer, forced >> Bible study and Forced reverence to any God. Of course there are notable >> exceptions for instance the illegal insertion of Under God into what was >> otherwise a secular pledge, but I have never been for forced patriotism >> either. Lastly I leave you with this thought, for as long as their are >> Tests in School there will always be Prayer. > I see. All books can be proscribed ("forced") reading and study material >in class, the Bible being the sole exception, because it makes atheists in >class feel uncomfortable. LOL > It's time we get back to democracy and government by the people and for >the people, instead of government by decrees from an unelected supreme >court. LOL. The dickhead Pastor Frank is still here. I look forward to once again reading your inanities, Pastor Frank. Your stupidity is not only amusing, it reinforces my conviction that Xians are completely lacking in simple logical abilities. Quote
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