Intelligent design taught in our schools. Good or Bad

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

Alright, that explains it...well, not really, but I'll find some way to accept it.

[fullauto]

Alright, that explains it...well, not really, but I'll find some way to accept it.

 

It's nothing occultist or secret... you just have to read alot... amazon.com is my friend

[phreakwars]

 

The Hammurabi law code has until recently been considered the oldest, until the laws of Eshnunna (ca. 1800 BC), Lipit-Ishtar (ca. 1930 BC) and Old Babylonian school extracts (ca. 1900-1700 BC) of Ur-Nammu were discovered. Hammurabi's laws represented the inhuman Law of Retaliation, "an Eye for an Eye", that was taken up in the laws of Moses and subsequent legislation.

 

How Ironic is it, that the OLDEST KNOWN RECORDED LAW, or even "COMMANDMENT" if you would want to call it that, is:

 

DON'T GET MAD, GET EVEN !!

And to think that the bible originated from Sumerian scripts !!

 

Which, IT DID !!

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[builder]

I'm not human.....

 

 

No shit? No fucking secrets here.

[builder]

How Ironic is it, that the OLDEST KNOWN RECORDED LAW, or even "COMMANDMENT" if you would want to call it that, is:

 

DON'T GET MAD, GET EVEN !!

And to think that the bible originated from Sumerian scripts !!

 

Which, IT DID !!

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You have issues with eye for an eye, Phreakwars? Where does this one fit into the ten commandments of the new testament?

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

On what basis do you say the Bible originated from Sumarian scripts Phreak?

[phreakwars]

On what basis do you say the Bible originated from Sumarian scripts Phreak?

Go back to the link to the Earth History page, there is much evidence to support this. Sumerian text is older then Christianity, many of the same teachings of these texts can be found in the bible, as well as many of the common names.

 

Now being realistic, Christianity didn't start out with a fucking bible falling from the sky, it started like all religions would start, with ancient cultures.

 

The year of birth of Adam, has been estimated to be 4004 B.C.

 

http://www.earth-history.com/Generation.htm

 

This being the case, Christianity can ONLY be traced back that far.... actually NOT EVEN that far..

 

Now, since the lands where Christianity was spawned is the same lands of the Sumerian who lived there before (which is about 6000 B.C.), its pretty obvious where Christianity came from.

 

As for the "EYE FOR AN EYE" law, I never said anything was bad about it. I just find it strange, that the oldest known law, is REVENGE !!

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[Thermite Wielding Troll]

Hard case, eh? I'll have to look at that math there and compare with the Bible accounts, and see how everything syncs up.

 

The question is, did the Sumerians come before the supposed start of the human race as recorded in the Bible? We first have to confirm the actual date BC (if it can be done) and then find out what basis the Sumerians are dated at the time they were if it is earlier.

 

You have any links on the Sumerians? I'll probably look it up in the next couple of days on my own anyway.

 

Christianity can be dated at least as far back as Moses, if we assume he wrote Genesis. Jesus was apparently prophesied in Genesis: "And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Genesis 3, 14-15, KJV

 

One note about the pictures shown on that site: The whole human phylogeny thing is far from dependable. Neanderthals were quite possibly just humans. There has been evidence found that suggests Neanderthals interbred with humans, and according to evolution that makes them one species, provided the offspring were fertile. They've also found evidence of stone age technology that equals or even surpasses humans' at the time. They could've just been a really heavy boned race of human, look at some Eastern Europeans and Africans. That and the other supposed human ancestors are often worked whole cloth from small pieces of bone fragments, and archeologists are constantly throwing away once sensational finds of the ancestors of humankind as ape fossils.

 

For an interesting archive on the alternative side of the debate over evolution, as well as some fascinating biological information, try this site:

 

http://www.creationsafaris.com/crev200508.htm

 

Yes, it is completely Christian biased, but if you can handle that it's also very logical and fact based.

[Spleefman]

Jesus was prophsized to a T in Issah 53.....

 

Isaiah 53

 

1 Who has believed what we have heard? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? 9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand; 11 he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

Oh yeah, and the laws of an "Eye for an Eye, and a Tooth for a Tooth" is not a commandment, as in "You MUST go and do this on your own when someone wrongs you". it's more or less a way to settle disputes in an orderly fashion. If two parties couldn't settle an issue between them and went to the authority, that was the thing to be done. If they did make up on their own without invoking the law, it didn't become a legal issue.

 

Jesus tells us to quit worrying about ourselves and to be the bigger person when it comes to such disputes, turn the other cheek. It isn't a commandment to allow yourself to become a victim, this is a slap in the face, not a beating or stabbing. Once things are over, do not hold on to the wrongs that the perpetrators have repented of (i.e. seek forgiveness for and have stopped actively doing).

[Spleefman]

Did we just post at the same time Troll? We must have.

 

Cool Avatar by the way.....

[fullauto]

Oh I never said ANYTHING about the "stereotype" devil, I am referring to worship. You don't seem to worship ANYTHING really, just proclaim who was the better God of the 2. Treating them more like the AFC .vs NFC. Which to me is more acceptable then bowing down before ANYBODY !!

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that is true.... I bow before no man and pray to no god... I alone am master of my own fate... If I am poor, it is my fault... If I am lonely, it is my fault...

 

Your right... it is kinda like AFC vs NFC... I have seen and am totally aware of the rules on both sides.... Yahweh want you to never question him or anything he says... He wants you to bow to him and remain in the dark... I don't like those rules... They don't help me... Satan (Enki) has set the guidelines so I can suceed, not set them against me... And I actually find Satans general guidlines (notice not rules) to be ALOT more moral and even more effective with human relationship, and societal relationships...

 

I guess it really comes down to what you want... I didn't want to be powerless anymore... I wanted control over my future and education... so I settled on Satans guidlines.... But I still pray to no god! Satan or otherwise!

[fullauto]

 

As for the "EYE FOR AN EYE" law, I never said anything was bad about it. I just find it strange, that the oldest known law, is REVENGE !!

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That actually dates from the egyptian dynasties... Ptah had a son, Osirus... His wife was Isis... Osirus was killed in a dispute with Set, King of upper egypt... Isis collected Osiruses seed post mortem and gave birth to Horus immaculately <coincidense?>... Osirus was eventually 'fixed' except for a key organ <wink wink>... But Horus was really pissed about it, and went to set and fought him over it... Horus Lost his eye in the battle... He refused to get it back after set offers it and since then, revenge has been known by the phrase an eye for an eye....

 

Incidently, Horus's Eye garnishes our 1 dollar bill.... The pyramid with the eye on top is called the Trinachria... 'The Eye of Horus'

 

Watch symbols for a little more info

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

I agree about the avatar, but I didn't get it myself. The admins gave it to me without my knowledge....Good deal!

 

Psalm 22 is a good one as well. And Daniel gives an actual timeframe for His appearance. Jesus shows up alot in the Old Testament.

 

I really don't see God not wanting us to question what He says. He seems to write out the purpose behind many things with history...God didn't want the Israelites to have a human king; they wanted a human king anyways; he scared them, then let them have a human king; their human kings eventually became corrupt, etc.

 

The Old Testament Law itself is an example. Noone can perfectly follow the Law, therefore noone can be justified by the Law. Therefore, the Law is not useful for dealing with imperfect humans. This explains why God designed the loophole that allowed someone able to follow the Law perfectly to take our place and make up for our imperfections and allow us to squeak by the Law; which explains Jesus' purpose here on Earth. All this is described in Hebrews, of course.

 

First I tried to move this thread away from religion, now I'm the one perpetrating the religion. Shame on me.

 

A much of early science was man trying to understand the physical laws of God upon which the universe operated. If the universe was created by a rational mind, it can be understood rationally is the way I've heard it stated. I have yet to see direct evidence of God putting a damper on our scientific progress, so no proof of His displeasure in us doing that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why do people take something SO SIMPLE and turn it into SHIT.

 

1. Public school is for academic learning. Period. Reading, writing, math, social studies, art, technology and science. Chemistry, Biology, and Anthropology are all rigorous fact based sciences and evolution is firmly grounded by these core sciences.

 

2. Religious organizations, (i.e. churches) are for faith based religious studies. Want to learn intelligent design, go there.

 

Somebody please explain to me why this is so hard for the current crop of Right Wing Wackos to understand?

[RoyalOrleans]

Why do people take something SO SIMPLE and turn it into SHIT.

 

1. Public school is for academic learning. Period. Reading, writing, math, social studies, art, technology and science. Chemistry, Biology, and Anthropology are all rigorous fact based sciences and evolution is firmly grounded by these core sciences.

 

2. Religious organizations, (i.e. churches) are for faith based religious studies. Want to learn intelligent design, go there.

 

Somebody please explain to me why this is so hard for the current crop of Right Wing Wackos to understand?

 

They have the backing of the Christian Coalition and without them, the Right Wing cocksuckers lose 80% of their support.

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

Hey, Cogito, show me how any of those sciences (Except anthropology, because it's welded to evolution's ass) support evolution.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hey, Cogito, show me how any of those sciences (Except anthropology, because it's welded to evolution's ass) support evolution.

 

Hmm...

 

You're joking right? Am I to assume that you have never been to a large Museum of Natural History because if you had, you missed the boat completely.

 

Museums of Natural History utilize biology, zoology, chemistry, geology, and many other fact based sciences to identify and establish time lines and evolutionary connection in the world and universe based upon rock solid scientific investigation.

 

Have you ever heard of AMNH?

 

"The American Museum of Natural History, since its founding in 1869, has been one of the world's preeminent institutions for scientific and cultural research and education, with a commitment to engage the public in the wonder of discovery. The Museum is one of the largest natural history museums in the world. Renowned for its significant temporary and permanent exhibitions, adult and family education programs, and fundamental scientific research, the Museum is comprised of 23 interconnected buildings, housing 43 permanent exhibition halls, a wide array of research laboratories, teaching facilities, one of the Western hemisphere's largest natural history libraries, and a collection of 32 million specimens and cultural artifacts. With a scientific staff of more than 200, including more than 44 curators, the Museum supports research departments in the Division of Anthropology; the Division of Physical Sciences including Astrophysics and Earth and Planetary Sciences; Paleontology; Invertebrate Zoology; and Vertebrate Zoology.

 

 

The American Museum of Natural History was established in 1869 in a world very different from today's. Even by the late 19th century, we did not have a firm knowledge of many of Earth's land regions and oceans, the diversity of cultures outside of western societies, and the essential history and organization of life on Earth. Darwin's revolutionary Origin of Species had been published only ten years before. It would be 30 more years before the structure of the atom would be revealed and the laws of heredity disclosed, 40 years before Einstein would share his theories of relativity, and 132 years before the entire three billion nucleotides of the human genome would be mapped.

 

Over this period of spectacular scientific achievement, the Museum has played a leading role in exploration, discovery, and theoretical advances in the natural sciences. Central to these efforts has been the accumulation of one of the world's great Museum collections. In the 1870s, the Museum's quarters on Manhattan Square contained a mixed assortment that suggested rather inauspicious beginnings for the fledgling institution. These included a few thousand shells, beetles, and bird skins, 16 specimens of algae, a stuffed dodo and badger, one mummified crocodile, and a mammoth tooth-a far cry from the extraordinary 32 million specimens and artifacts under Museum stewardship today. The growth of these collections, and the research and publications they have inspired, derived from a formidable commitment to world exploration that continues to this day. The period encompassing the late 19th and early 20th centuries was a golden age of exploration for the Museum, highlighted by the Boas anthropological expeditions to study the indigenous cultures of Northwest America and Siberia, Barnum Brown's series of dramatic discoveries of dinosaurs from the American West, Roy Chapman Andrews's 1920s expeditions to the Gobi, and many more. This era of great discovery was the legacy of the next. Expeditions set out for many remote regions of the world, including the Congo Basin of Africa, central Asian deserts, and isolated islands of the Pacific. Among these, the Carl Akeley expeditions to Africa produced a comprehensive record of ecosystems that are showcased in the Akeley Hall of African Mammals, perhaps the greatest diorama representations of nature ever created.

 

This era of discovery pertained not only to field exploration. The Museum was a leader in forging new theories on the way we look at cultures, biological organisms, and indeed the very evolution of life. Highlights of this theoretical thrust include the emergence of modern anthropology between 1900 and 1940, first through the work of Franz Boas and later Margaret Mead, Boas's famous student who became a Museum curator. The 1940s also saw a refashioning of Darwinian evolutionary theory into a synthesis that embraced genetics, paleontology, ecology, and taxonomy. This confluence was largely due to a collaboration involving two Museum curators, Ernst Mayr and George Simpson, and the Columbia University geneticist Theodosius Dobzhansky. In the 1970s and 1980s the Museum fostered vanguard approaches to deciphering the branching patterns of evolutionary relationships among organisms. The Museum's leadership in this area promoted a revolution in the field of systematics, the science that deals with the recognition of relationships among species and their arrangement in classifications, and these advances significantly transformed research areas that extend from paleontology to comparative molecular biology.

 

Today, science at the American Museum of Natural History thrives and expands on these earlier accomplishments. The work of scientific research, training, laboratory work, and collections management concern more than 200 scientific personnel, including more than 40 tenure-track curators. The museum's doctoral training program, which connects with five universities (Yale, Cornell, Columbia, and New York universities and the City University of New York), represents the largest and most diversified program of its kind offered by any unaffiliated museum. The collections and research assets are cultivated by continued exploration-over 100 expeditions and field projects annually. A critical resource for the scientific effort is the Museum's Library. With over 400,000 volumes, it is one of the great natural history libraries in the world.

 

These achievements notwithstanding, the Museum continues, as science advances, to be vigilant about its effectiveness. Perhaps no human enterprise can shock and enlighten us and change our sense of ourselves and the universe like scientific discovery. In the late 1990s the Museum established new programs and directions in order to enhance the quality and competitiveness of its scientific research, develop new multidisciplinary endeavors, and improve databasing, access, and care of the scientific collections and library holdings. "

 

Umm... You knew this right? I hope your joking, right?

 

Oh, one last little nail in your coffin lid...Long before George W. Bush and the religious whack jobs had their bullshit agenda, there was The Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History which has in it's collections, only about 124 million specimens and has every scientific pursuit represented in it's 200+ curators!

 

I should charge you $$$ for an education like this!

 

Lucky for you though...

 

"Admission to the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History is free and no tickets are required for entrance to the museum."

[phreakwars]

NICE POST C.E.S., HAVE SOME FREE REP !!

 

 

 

( And next time charge him $5 for the lesson )

 

GF:

EDUCATING THE MASSES

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[ToriAllen]

Why would it be so difficult to teach the theory of evolution in schools and then add to the end of it, "Oh, yeah, and it is possible that all of this was set into motion( or designed) by a Divine Being"?

 

There is no need to teach the storybook accounts of each religion. Just an acknowledgement of the possibility of Science by Design should be enough.

 

I don't see a problem with that.

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

All you did was show me that the Museum of Natural History has collected lots of animal parts and caveman furnishings since 1869, and they claim to be studying how evolution ties in with the sciences. You have yet to actually show me how any of it actually ties in.

 

I'm still listening.

[Master_Jaffer]

True.... But I don't see the problem with teaching the Xtian version as long as it is coupled with other versions like Islam, Judeism, Hindu (one of my fav) and some others... I would guess that after a few years of this learning style, all versions, that people would realize that ALL of these religions have thier roots, one way or another, in Sumerian texts.... and since we have many of them and have translated most, we should learn our ROOTS... Learn what people had to say about god when GOD LIVED AMONG MAN! Those are the people that will give you insight into gods design... the ones who actually spoke to them/him.... It would all come out in the end...

Islam believes evolution... just not from apes.

 

It's more like Intelligent Design - Design Evolution/Adaptation.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

All you did was show me that the Museum of Natural History has collected lots of animal parts and caveman furnishings since 1869, and they claim to be studying how evolution ties in with the sciences. You have yet to actually show me how any of it actually ties in.

 

I'm still listening.

 

 

A wise old Samarian once said...

 

You can lead the jackass to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

If you cannot visit a Museum of Natural History yourself and use your own brain to make the connection, (I suggest you talk to a docent of even a curator if you can) then no amount of information I can share with you will end your ignorance. I gave you a direction, now go learn for yourself.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Islam believes evolution... just not from apes.

 

It's more like Intelligent Design - Design Evolution/Adaptation.

 

 

Hmm...

 

Based upon what scientific evidence and proof?

 

I can see it now...

 

The G.W. Bush Collection of Intelligent Design at the Smithsonian...

 

Excuse me while I go barf now...

[ToriAllen]

For the last time, evolution does not claim that humans evolved from apes! Evolution claims that we probably have a common ancestor. There is a difference.