The Death Penalty

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Life imprisonment is a far worse punishment then they death penalty. It also allows for the wrongly convicted person to have a second chance at life. With the death penalty... there is not second chance.

 

I think life in prison (i.e. hell on earth) is a better punishment then a needle full of Sodium Pentathol.

 

Okay. But you didn't really answer the question I asked.

 

"What EXACTLY is LIFE IMPRISIONMENT WITHOUT PAROLE then? Would you also define that as revenge? "

 

This is an important concept that tells me where you are coming from and allows me to understand you.

 

Also, don't you find it unusual at the bare minimum, that you consider execution to be barbaric, but would much rather implement what you refer to as "a far worse punishment" and "hell on Earth"? I'm really confused here. Are you saying that you are more sadistic?

[TerroristHater]

You can't deter someone who is in prison w/o parol from stealing from a mini-mart. Why? NO MINI-MARTS IN JAIL! With the death penalty, you don't have to deter them. You kill them, you don't have to worry about them anymore. No more stolen donuts...

 

I see you point, however, I cannot agree.

 

I think it's barbaric.

[TerroristHater]

Okay. But you didn't really answer the question I asked.

 

"What EXACTLY is LIFE IMPRISIONMENT WITHOUT PAROLE then? Would you also define that as revenge? "

 

This is an important concept that tells me where you are coming from and allows me to understand you.

 

Also, don't you find it unusual at the bare minimum, that you consider execution to be barbaric, but would much rather implement what you refer to as "a far worse punishment" and "hell on Earth"? I'm really confused here. Are you saying that you are more sadistic?

 

 

Sorry.

 

Life imprisonment with or without parole is punishment. It's not the same as killing a man because he killed someone else.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sorry.

 

Life imprisonment with or without parole is punishment. It's not the same as killing a man because he killed someone else.

 

 

Okay. We're getting somewhere, albeit slowly.

 

So it's punishment. You stated it is a WORSE punishment than execution. Do you believe this?

[skategreen]

Yeah, well, I don't see you castagating your assclown scientologist butt buddy for his insults. You are just another conservative asshole who should remain quiet.

 

The death penalty is lame. This has been repeatedly proven. It's sad that the republinazis cannot seem to grasp that

 

I will not be called a coward by a pussy like you. I served my country. I was in the military. Unlike your lame Salvation Army Ass, I actually saw death on a DAILY BASIS. I would try to explain it to you, but worthless pukes like you lack a common frame of reference and are unable to understand.

 

Fuck you for making light of the sacrifice I made. Fuck you for calling me, one of the many brave Americans that fought for the freedoms you enjoy, a coward.

 

Fuck you and all the republican scum in this world.

 

TH - let's get a few thing straight here.

 

If you served our country, then I do thank you for this. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the dedication and sacrifices you made on my behalf. - and I sincerely believe that this was done on behalf of not only my country, but me personally. While I may not necessarily agree with all wars/conflicts our country has been involved in over the past 200 years, this does not detract from the gratitude and appreciation which I extend to our soldiers, vets, police, firefighters and so forth.

 

However, the fact that you served our country does not give you license to constantly shout bigoted flaming hatred all over these boards - without being called to carpet for it. I'm not glued to these boards and don't read all posts but your propensity for truly bigoted nastiness is simply blasted all over the place. I called you out on it on another thread, but you didn't respond. This time you do and you do so with neg rep. (my first! I'm no longer a Neg Rep Virgin!)

 

You have taken the time to fling insults my way now, but you're not defending the point I am making - why must you attempt to make your point by screaming foul shit-encrusted epithets decrying and defiling race, creed and religion?

 

Just what were you fighting for with your military service anyway? Got it on the first amendment - any others ...perhaps?

 

Oh...and BTW...how'd you know I once flopped in a Sally Ann when I was a teen out seeing the country by boxcar?

[TerroristHater]

TH - let's get a few thing straight here.

 

If you served our country, then I do thank you for this. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the dedication and sacrifices you made on my behalf. - and I sincerely believe that this was done on behalf of not only my country, but me personally. While I may not necessarily agree with all wars/conflicts our country has been involved in over the past 200 years, this does not detract from the gratitude and appreciation which I extend to our soldiers, vets, police, firefighters and so forth.

 

However, the fact that you served our country does not give you license to constantly shout bigoted flaming hatred all over these boards - without being called to carpet for it. I'm not glued to these boards and don't read all posts but your propensity for truly bigoted nastiness is simply blasted all over the place. I called you out on it on another thread, but you didn't respond. This time your do and you do so with neg rep. (my first! I'm no longer a Neg Rep Virgin!)

 

You have taken the time to fling insults my way now, but you're not defending the point I am making - why must you attempt to make your point by screaming foul shit-encrusted epithets decrying and defiling race, creed and religion?

 

Just what were you fighting for with your military service anyway? Got it on the first amendment - any others ...perhaps?

 

Oh...and BTW...how'd you know I once flopped in a Sally Ann when I was a teen out seeing the country by boxcar?

 

You have a valid point. I will strive to be a better debater. My apologies for offending you. I tend to go off the deep end sometimes.

 

If you would be so kind as to repeat your point, I will do my best to answer accordingly.

 

Thanks

[TerroristHater]

Okay. We're getting somewhere, albeit slowly.

 

So it's punishment. You stated it is a WORSE punishment than execution. Do you believe this?

 

Yeah, I do. The death penalty is an easy out. If these people have to spend thier life in prison, which is much the same as hell or so I am told, then they actually pay for thier crime. If we kill them them they get an easy out. They never have to really pay for thier crimes.

 

My thinking on this matter comes from an old saying that reads "Everybody dies, not everybody truly lives" ...

 

Basically, I figure we can take thier life away from them without killing them. That is far worse then death because they will be unable to do more then watch from a far.

 

It's kind of like hiding a glass of water from a man who is dying of thirst.

 

 

 

[tizz]

Face it. How you view the death penalty, abortion, murder, or assisted suicide all ties into one thing. How you view life AFTER death and the soul. If oyu can't agree on that, you will NEVER agree on life/death issues

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yeah, I do. The death penalty is an easy out. If these people have to spend thier life in prison, which is much the same as hell or so I am told, then they actually pay for thier crime. If we kill them them they get an easy out. They never have to really pay for thier crimes.

 

My thinking on this matter comes from an old saying that reads "Everybody dies, not everybody truly lives"

 

 

Alright now... WE are making progress... It's starting to get good.

 

So, we've established that you believe that:

 

1. Execution is Barbaric.

 

2. Life imprisonment is a more desirable alternative than execution.

 

3. Life imprisonment is WORSE than execution and "Hell on Earth" and "a far worse death".

 

4. You believe this punishement better fits the crime.

 

 

But, isn't your punishement MORE BARBARIC and CRUEL than mine?

 

Forget the economic argument, the moral argument, and the threat to society argument for a moment and just focus on which is truly MORE BARBARIC...

[TerroristHater]

Face it. How you view the death penalty, abortion, murder, or assisted suicide all ties into one thing. How you view life AFTER death and the soul. If oyu can't agree on that, you will NEVER agree on life/death issues

 

I do agree with that. I know that those who have done these horrible things will be judged by god and punished accordingly once they cross the veil between this life and the next.

 

I just don't think it's right to kill them. The law of moses hasn't applied for thosands of years.

 

[tizz]

Exactly why my reasons for being against it have nothing to do with the severity of punishment (accept I think it is a easy out) Punish the fuckers hard. MAKE them a deterrent. Give am all aids and cancer then experiment on their asses. That might make a few idiots think twice before comiting a serious violent act.

 

Personally I believe in a Karma of sorts and if you are a fucker in this life you will simply GET fucked in the next. Life is our punishment and you can either take it likea perverbial man or whine like a little bitch through the whole thing

[skategreen]

You have a valid point. I will strive to be a better debater. My apologies for offending you. I tend to go off the deep end sometimes.

 

If you would be so kind as to repeat your point, I will do my best to answer accordingly.

 

Thanks

 

Thank you. This answer is actually a relief. Some good Rip-Snorting Pissed Off is all fine and dandy - but the giant screaming bigot rants I've been seeing from you tend to degenerate into the non-sequitur and are simply upsetting.

 

From what I'm seeing on the boards, you've either upped your meds, had a nice roll or simply have taken a deep breath. Thank you for this!

 

My point was just my protest of the above and your post puts it to rest.

 

Now...about that death penalty...

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Face it. How you view the death penalty, abortion, murder, or assisted suicide all ties into one thing. How you view life AFTER death and the soul. If oyu can't agree on that, you will NEVER agree on life/death issues

 

Tizz baby, you're missing the whole point here to which TH is SOOOOOO Close.

 

I am not looking to win him over, nor be convinced of his position, but rather I am trying to understand what is the glue that holds his position together. What makes him tick on this topic. Not to try and assault it, but rather to understand it so that I can contrast and compare it with my own thoughts.

 

By learning this, I can critically expose myself to ideas other than my own, and to me, that is where the real CRITICAL thought process lies.

 

Besides, I used to feel EXACTLY as he does now, but I changed. I want to remember why I felt that way and perhaps he can show me.

[TerroristHater]

Alright now... WE are making progress... It's starting to get good.

 

So, we've established that you believe that:

 

1. Execution is Barbaric.

 

2. Life imprisonment is a more desirable alternative than execution.

 

3. Life imprisonment is WORSE than execution and "Hell on Earth".

 

4. You believe this punishement better fits the crime.

 

 

But, isn't your punishement MORE BARBARIC and CRUEL than mine?

 

Forget the economic argument, the moral argument, and the threat to society argument for a moment and just focus on which is truly MORE BARBARIC...

 

 

It's far worse, but not really more barbaric. While it certainly has the potential to be gruesome and nasty it also serves to punish the guilty in a fashion, which is far more effective then just executing them.

 

What lesson does a killer learn if you kill him? (Nobody except god can answer this one)

 

A killer who has to sit in a 10X10 cell for the rest of his life learns what a truly horrible place prison is. He wishes he was not in prison. Sometimes he/she blames society, but secrety knows that he got himself there. He doesn't get a life. Nor does he get a quick death. He gets to spend his the rest of his years trapped in limbo between life and death.

 

Perhaps that is cruel, but I still believe it's better then the death penalty.

[tizz]

CES>>>I agree there, but if you are gonna argue or discuss a topic like this, the only way you will truly know where they stand or why is to get out of them exactly what they believe as far as after life. Same thing with abortion or death with dignity. Might aas well skip all teh bullshit and get right down to WHY we believe one or the other. Keep it simple. (cuts down on the dizzines associated with running in circles )

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It's far worse, but not really more barbaric. While it certainly has the potential to be gruesome and nasty it also serves to punish the guilty in a fashion, which is far more effective then just executing them.

 

What lesson does a killer learn if you kill him? (Nobody except god can answer this one)

 

A killer who has to sit in a 10X10 cell for the rest of his life learns what a truly horrible place prison is. He wishes he was not in prison. Sometimes he/she blames society, but secrety knows that he got himself there. He doesn't get a life. Nor does he get a quick death. He gets to spend his the rest of his years trapped in limbo between life and death.

 

Perhaps that is cruel, but I still believe it's better then the death penalty.

 

Ah....Now, the crux of the matter...

 

What we really have here, is a difference in positions which boils down to the following.

 

I favor execution, (Barbarisim) and you favor life imprisonment (Cruelty).

 

Which is truly the worse of the two evils? Barbarism or Cruelty? Perhaps they are the same thing.

[TerroristHater]

Ah....Now, the crux of the matter...

 

What we really have here, is a difference in positions which boils down to the following.

 

I favor execution, (Barbarisim) and you favor life imprisonment (Cruelty).

 

Which is truly the worse of the two evils? Barbarism or Cruelty? Perhaps they are the same thing.

 

Perhaps so. Of course, cruelty can end in a release and compensation if the accused is later exhonorated. Barbarisim on the other hand .... not so much.

[skategreen]

Here's my problem with all this....

 

If someone raped and murdered my daughter or one of my younger sisters (I'm not quite sure about the big sis) ...I would want to see them fry. I wouldn't want to know that they still get to suck air every day.

 

I just know this in my heart, that I wouldn't want them to have this privilege. I would just want them gone.

 

Whether they cease to exist, go to a heaven or hell, or come back in another life would be moot. I would just want to know they have been deprived of their body.

 

Now if that's truly the way I feel... then I must extend this to other's who have suffered that loss I would never want to endure.

 

Each person murdered, raped and murdered...was someone's son or daughter, husband, wife, child... mother father..etc. The deliberate and wanton disregard for the devastation created must be answered for..and if I answer it one way for myself, I must answer it the same for the other flows - happening to other people - regardless of any other consideration I may hold.

[TerroristHater]

Here's my problem with all this....

 

If someone raped and murdered my daughter or one of my younger sisters (I'm not quite sure about the big sis) ...I would want to see them fry. I wouldn't want to know that they still get to suck air every day.

 

I just know this in my heart, that I wouldn't want them to have this privilege. I would just want them gone.

 

Whether they cease to exist, go to a heaven or hell, or come back in another life would be moot. I would just want to know they have been deprived of their body.

 

Now if that's truly the way I feel... then I must extend this to other's who have suffered that loss I would never want to endure.

 

Each person murdered, raped and murdered...was someone's son or daughter, husband, wife, child... mother father..etc. The deliberate and wanton disregard for the devastation created must be answered for..and if I answer it one way for myself, I must answer it the same for the other flows - happening to other people - regardless of any other consideration I may hold.

 

I understand how you feel and I admire the courage of your convictions (that was an accidental pun). However, I wonder, wouldn't you rather see the offender who did that thing deprived of both life and death?

 

Life imprisonment is the absence of life and the denial of a quick and easy death. It's an eternal limbo from which there is no escape. It's really a horrible half-life.

 

Isn't that even better punishment then death?

 

-TH

 

P.S. Nobody uses the chiar anymore (that I know of)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So, like me, Skategreen favors Barbarism over Cruelty.

 

I don't believe for a moment, that one is better than the other. To me they are the two sides of the SAME coin.

 

So, then, one has the other aspects to deal with. Namely economic, moral and threat to society arguments.

 

Herein lies the good stuff...

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

P.S. Nobody uses the chiar anymore (that I know of)

 

Then you shall now KNOW... (Because many still do...)

 

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/Methods.htm

[TerroristHater]

Then you shall now KNOW... (Because many still do...)

 

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/Methods.htm

There is some really scary stuff on that page.

 

Makes me glad I am not on death row.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

There is some really scary stuff on that page.

 

Makes me glad I am not on death row.

 

Yeah, the State by State stuff at the bottom of the page is interesting to me. So many have CHOICES?!?

[skategreen]

I understand how you feel and I admire the courage of your convictions (that was an accidental pun). However, I wonder, wouldn't you rather see the offender who did that thing deprived of both life and death?

 

Life imprisonment is the absence of life and the denial of a quick and easy death. It's an eternal limbo from which there is no escape. It's really a horrible half-life.

 

Isn't that even better punishment then death?

 

-TH

 

P.S. Nobody uses the chiar anymore (that I know of)

 

Make that "proverbial fry"

 

I can theoretically ponder your concept and can see it's validity. It doesn't handle it for me though. I would want the person, "gone". I could then take my attention off of them. I wouldn't want to wonder, "what are they doing right now? ... are they eating lousy grub? getting assaulted by an inmate? watching TV? writing a letter home to a loved one? Staring at walls wishing? surfing the web looking at pictures of kittens in baby clothes falling out of baskets?? (yes, I would worry they had it soft and had been allowed computer privileges!) I wouldn't want them to have one happy moment, and would waste my thoughts in twisted anger, wishing them evil. This wouldn't be good for me.

 

I KNOW I would "think of them". I KNOW I would "picture them". This is why I don't want them around anymore. If someone had done such an evil thing to someone I knew and loved, I wouldn't want to waste one thought on them. I wouldn't want to invite them further into my life and future in that way. To have them still alive would put them out there somewhere, and they would suck my attention to whatever degree.

 

If they were executed, then it would be OVER. I could relegate them to the past and could get on with dealing with my own personal loss - I've been to a dozen funerals. (none caused another) ...this gives me an inkling as to how one gets over it - lives with it.

[TerroristHater]

Make that "proverbial fry"

 

I can theoretically ponder your concept and can see it's validity. It doesn't handle it for me though. I would want the person, "gone". I could then take my attention off of them. I wouldn't want to wonder, "what are they doing right now? ... are they eating lousy grub? getting assaulted by an inmate? watching TV? writing a letter home to a loved one? Staring at walls wishing? surfing the web looking at pictures of kittens in baby clothes falling out of baskets?? (yes, I would worry they had it soft and had been allowed computer privileges!) I wouldn't want them to have one happy moment, and would waste my thoughts in twisted anger, wishing them evil. This wouldn't be good for me.

 

I KNOW I would "think of them". I KNOW I would "picture them". This is why I don't want them around anymore. If someone had done such an evil thing to someone I knew and loved, I wouldn't want to waste one thought on them. I wouldn't want to invite them further into my life and future in that way. To have them still alive would put them out there somewhere, and they would suck my attention to whatever degree.

 

If they were executed, then it would be OVER. I could relegate them to the past and could get on with dealing with my own personal loss - I've been to a dozen funerals. (none caused another) ...this gives me an inkling as to how one gets over it - lives with it.

 

I see your point. I guess it does bring closure. I never thought of that.