Are parents dropping the ball more and more as the years go on?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

There's a lot of work in heaven..for angels such as yourself...

 

but afterall....

 

it IS heaven, isn't it?

 

I don't know about angels, but I'll tell you something love...

 

If my children speak half as kindly about me after I'm gone, as you do about your father, then my life will have been an astounding success of incalculable measure...

[angie]

Congratulations! Words of advice here...

 

You need much LESS than you think you do.

 

Your new baby needs very little in the way of "things" but needs quite a lot in the way of "you".

 

The time and effort you invest in these first 5 years, will either pay you back in spades, or haunt you the rest of this childs life!

 

Baby resale shops (if they are in your area) are A BARGAIN!

 

When holding the baby, RELAX. It's not as breakable as you think. After all, the little sucker had to squirt through that itty bitty birth canal now didn't it? My first son, I held like a priceless Ming vase, my second one I held like a cherished family heirloom, my third son...well I soon held him like my college backpack, and you know something, we enjoyed each other all the more for it!

 

My grandmother told me once, hug and kiss that baby every day of its life, and when someday it leaves you for its own home, hug and kiss it each and every time you see it, and it will always return to you with love for you.

 

She was a very wise woman. I believe her. I kiss and hug my sons each and every day.

 

I have no qualms about using "pre-owned" baby stuff. I have bought new clothes, but have gotten some used I'm sure I will be going through LOTS of onesies a used crib new mattress was given a carseat by a parent at work inspected for safety and meets all standards . And we do have a resale shop in the area that I plan on using. I'm not too terribly concerned: I am going to breastfeed free and make homemade baby food as my mother did . So clothes and diapers. And, of course, toys. And books. I can't wait to take her to the weekly story time at Barnes and Noble. Heck I can't wait to start reading her stories NOW. In about three weeks she will be able to hear everything going on outside the womb according to all the medical mumbo jumbo I have read so baby bonding will be starting waaay before birth.

[skategreen]

I don't know about angels, but I'll tell you something love...

 

If my children speak half as kindly about me after I'm gone, as you do about your father, then my life will have been an astounding success of incalculable measure...

 

 

Ohhhh..that...was very kind.

 

Today...is ten years. Ten years ago today...dad passed.

 

I'm thinking of posting the things I wrote for him today.

 

It's been a dad day

 

all day long.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I have no qualms about using "pre-owned" baby stuff. I have bought new clothes, but have gotten some used I'm sure I will be going through LOTS of onesies a used crib new mattress was given a carseat by a parent at work inspected for safety and meets all standards . And we do have a resale shop in the area that I plan on using. I'm not too terribly concerned: I am going to breastfeed free and make homemade baby food as my mother did . So clothes and diapers. And, of course, toys. And books. I can't wait to take her to the weekly story time at Barnes and Noble. Heck I can't wait to start reading her stories NOW. In about three weeks she will be able to hear everything going on outside the womb according to all the medical mumbo jumbo I have read so baby bonding will be starting waaay before birth.

 

BRAVO! Good for you! You're going to be an EXCELLENT mother...I can tell.

 

Here's a hint for you Mommy...That baby has been bonding with you from the moment that first fertalized egg divided into two cells. The question is, will you continue that bonding once it comes out of you and I am certain that you will!

 

A friend of mine who could not have a child once asked me what it was like to have a child. I thought about it for a moment, and then said...

 

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."

 

She just smiled...

[skategreen]

I have no qualms about using "pre-owned" baby stuff. I have bought new clothes, but have gotten some used I'm sure I will be going through LOTS of onesies a used crib new mattress was given a carseat by a parent at work inspected for safety and meets all standards . And we do have a resale shop in the area that I plan on using. I'm not too terribly concerned: I am going to breastfeed free and make homemade baby food as my mother did . So clothes and diapers. And, of course, toys. And books. I can't wait to take her to the weekly story time at Barnes and Noble. Heck I can't wait to start reading her stories NOW. In about three weeks she will be able to hear everything going on outside the womb according to all the medical mumbo jumbo I have read so baby bonding will be starting waaay before birth.

 

 

Ohhh you lucky lucky Smart Girl!!! Oh you're in for so much fun! I'm so glad!

 

Wish we could throw a virtual shower for you!

 

Hmmmmmm

 

not a bad idea actually....

 

too bad it's not smart to post one's address online...ebay...delivers...

[Ruse]

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."

 

She just smiled...

 

As for myself, I hate kids and babies -shudder-.

 

My best friend had a baby when she was fourteen, over the summer break. She was the first and only person to show me what a baby really was-- that I could actually enjoy something like that, akin to the enjoyment and contentedness I get from my cats. Reading what you just typed, CES, took me back to remembering how it felt to be 'Auntie Andrea'. It's nice.

You're very insightful, and it sounds like you're more than just a wonderful father. Aww, it made me smile, heh.

Keep up the good work.

[Silver_dragon87]

Ah, Jhony and CES, you completely missed my point. I don't blame you for it; the process that leads a person to a point where the loss of something tiny and inconsequential can remind them that they no longer want to live is long and complex. I could describe my thoughts to you, but it no matter how matter-of-fact I wrote it, you would always see it as whining. Let me put it very pragmatically for you both: I, SD, have absolutely no desire to live. Neither, generally, do I have a great desire to die, though I probably would take the opportunity if a very cowardly, easy one presented itself I remain here only because I don't wish to inflict any undue pain on anyone. Life is short, so no matter how miserable I may be some days, it won't last for long.

 

So while I stand firm in my belief that I am not being dramatic--I spend a lot of time alone, I think about these things--I can see how you might feel that way. You're entitled to your view. But please don't think so little of me as to assume that it is BECAUSE I don't always get what I want--or something I love or enjoy is taken away--because that WOULD be childish and 'drama-queen'esque. The reasons for my state, not to make it sound unjustly dramatic, are quite serious and very important to me. If anyone happens to be interested, I am always open to discussion, but otherwise I don't care to go off on another tangent about them.

 

Moving along, after reading a few more replies I have to say that while I do think that spanking can be a useful and effective tool, I certainly wouldn't use it all the time. I realize that I sort of gave that impression. My favourite method is a well-executed 'time out.' Supernanny style. Seems to work every time, I feel it would have worked on me when I was young and I wouldn't have ended up with the resentment and bitterness I did because I was raised mostly on the 'take away what they love' system. I find it vindictive, personally. It sounds spoiled, but it's how I see it. Taking something from someone has nothing to do with teaching them--it's a form of discipline that doesn't teach anything. And both systems, for the love of shit, need all the patience and love in the world to back them up. You can't spank without love.

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks that sounds perverted?

 

Skate, I'm sure we could all use more teachers like you, especially for young kids who have shitty parents >_<

 

(I'm replying as I go, hence this jump: )

 

Okay, getting a little mushy for my taste >_<

 

Angie, I'm glad there's you. There'll be at least one child that's not fucked up and abused, so good on you and good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Outlaw2747]

I normally would consider having a child these dyas cruel and unusual punishment to a human being but seeing that you are an intelligent and focused person Angie, I congratulate you. I am relieved that you will not be like the knuckledraggers of today.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ah, Jhony and CES, you completely missed my point. I don't blame you for it; the process that leads a person to a point where the loss of something tiny and inconsequential can remind them that they no longer want to live is long and complex. I could describe my thoughts to you, but it no matter how matter-of-fact I wrote it, you would always see it as whining. Let me put it very pragmatically for you both: I, SD, have absolutely no desire to live. Neither, generally, do I have a great desire to die, though I probably would take the opportunity if a very cowardly, easy one presented itself I remain here only because I don't wish to inflict any undue pain on anyone. Life is short, so no matter how miserable I may be some days, it won't last for long.

 

So while I stand firm in my belief that I am not being dramatic--I spend a lot of time alone, I think about these things--I can see how you might feel that way. You're entitled to your view. But please don't think so little of me as to assume that it is BECAUSE I don't always get what I want--or something I love or enjoy is taken away--because that WOULD be childish and 'drama-queen'esque. The reasons for my state, not to make it sound unjustly dramatic, are quite serious and very important to me. If anyone happens to be interested, I am always open to discussion, but otherwise I don't care to go off on another tangent about them.

 

Moving along, after reading a few more replies I have to say that while I do think that spanking can be a useful and effective tool, I certainly wouldn't use it all the time. I realize that I sort of gave that impression. My favourite method is a well-executed 'time out.' Supernanny style. Seems to work every time, I feel it would have worked on me when I was young and I wouldn't have ended up with the resentment and bitterness I did because I was raised mostly on the 'take away what they love' system. I find it vindictive, personally. It sounds spoiled, but it's how I see it. Taking something from someone has nothing to do with teaching them--it's a form of discipline that doesn't teach anything. And both systems, for the love of shit, need all the patience and love in the world to back them up. You can't spank without love.

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks that sounds perverted?

 

Skate, I'm sure we could all use more teachers like you, especially for young kids who have shitty parents >_<

 

(I'm replying as I go, hence this jump: )

 

Okay, getting a little mushy for my taste >_<

 

Angie, I'm glad there's you. There'll be at least one child that's not fucked up and abused, so good on you and good luck.

 

You give yourself way too much credit for a 17 year old. I didn't miss the point. I got it completely and clearly.

 

Are you so naive as to think that...

 

1) I was never your age or that I somehow forgot what it was like to be 17?

 

2) Never been around other kids your age as an adult myself?

 

3) That I cannot read and interpret your words for what they are?

 

I have a big news flash for you...You are not as mysterious and dark and foreboding as you would like to appear.

 

What you do have is "adolescence" going on rather wildly within your body. It's mostly a chemical and activity thing. You don't even realize this do you?

 

Are you physically active? Probably not.

 

Did you ever notice movies of animals that are in their "teenage" growth period? Those animals are VERY active. Always moving. There's a reason for this. Movement, and exercise, helps your body adjust and regulate itself. It also produces a natural release of endorphins to counteract the emotional effects of juvenile hormone imbalances (highs and lows) which are a normal occurrence during this period of physiological stabilization during puberty.

 

I recognize you for I have seen it in many other kids your age who I have worked with and all of you have the same characteristic. You spend the majority of your time sitting, usually in your room, and get little if any physical activity. Is this frighteningly familiar SD? You never give your body a chance to cleanse itself and to rapidly increase your blood flow. Hell, when was the last time you sweat from physical activity? If your body doesn't sweat at least once per day, then you are going to feel like you do all of the time.

 

Your mental state and your apathy about life is a chemical imbalance but it doesn't require medication, but rather, good diet, good rest at night and physical activity during the day. You should try it for 1 month, and if you don't feel much better, I'll eat a bug! LOL.

 

Claiming that you feel like this because your

[builder]

Skategreen said:

(Kids are people. Pure and simple. ONLY only that. They are actually really COOL people without a lot of crap to wade through and their love and respect are sooooooooo easily won. Oh my, they're the easiest people to get along with. )

 

This is the one thing that many "adults" fail to see. Childhood seems like an eternity when you are a child, but those years are soon gone.

 

Adults who mistreat their kids, or other people's kids, do find out how soon kids become adults. Often regretting their earlier actions.

 

I have five sisters, and I'm the second youngest. My neices and nephews grew up with me as "Uncle", even though I was not much older than the eldest of them.

 

Having copped flak and bullying off my older cousins and younger Uncles, I knew what it was like to be "lorded" over. I (subconciously) did the opposite.

 

Sure we had killer pillow-fights, and messy watermelon fights, and those water-balloon "wars" are a part of our history, but now that we are all adults, the respect is mutual. We look forward to seeing eachother.

 

So yes, I agree, Skategreen , kids are adults in the making. As an older person in the prescence of kids, it is our responsibility to treat them with the same respect afforded to adults. That is, if you want to be respected in kind.

 

In my three years of formal teaching of indig kids in Australia's Northern Territory, I experienced the highest attendance rates and the happiest students. Why? Because we learned together.

 

Postscript: I was in the bottlo the other day, and the young bloke serving reminded me of a time when I took him and a bunch of his mates up the beach for a surf, about eleven years ago. After some prompting, I recalled the day. This young bloke recalled the conversation, the car I drove, the state of the tide, etc. He said he'll never forget that day. I liked that.

[captainfrenchfry]

they do in some cases but they tend to become more lenient towards you when it comes time for you to get the hell outta their house

[Vaness]

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."

I loved that CES!!!

[angie]

Thanks, everyone for the compliments. They really do mean alot to me. I have my days where I just sit and ask myself "Can I really do this?" Your reassurance does help, there's only so far confidence can go in such an important task as raising a child. I do look forward to the expirience.

CES, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with SD. I had my teenage angst, as we all do, but I walked EVERYWHERE. To and from school, to my friends' houses, to the library....everywhere I went was generally 2 or 3 miles, but it was fun, and God does it help. Good for thinking time and clearing your head. Not the same as thinking time when you are cooped up in your bedroom in front of a screen TV or PC . SD, I would love to hear your activity level, and if it IS in fact low as many suspect, I suggest you try an "expiriment" as CES suggested. I would be very interested to see the effects it has. I can almost guarantee they would be nothing but positive!

[angie]

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."

I loved that CES!!!

 

That really is a beautiful way of putting it. The best I have heard yet. CES, I think I might have to steal that phrase from you

[Silver_dragon87]

As always, I truly enjoy the way you and so many others think you can pull information about me out of your ass. I'm afraid all you've managed to come up with is more shit--which is probably a good thing; it's all that's supposed to come out of there after all. I never implied that you had never been a teen; that would be retarded. Just because you missed my point doesn't mean you don't understand English--you're just too busy trying to put me into a category that you don't have time to spare on what I'm actually saying. I never once said or even implied that I think myself mysterious or even brooding. I speak openly about myself, I am happy to answer any questions people have. I do not look at my own state with any drama, only simple facts.

 

Speaking of facts, I happen to exercise for an hour every day, with another hour on top of that irregularly throughout the week, depending on when I get out to participate in my sport. I follow an exercise program at home that provides me with both a cardio workout and strength training. As I've said before and, as also mentioned, will be happy to discuss if anyone actually opens their ears (which I don't expect anyone to; I wouldn't want to talk to a stranger I didn't respect about their feelings), my reasons for my apathy are entirely external. My "death wish" one might say is due to what I think and see, not how I feel. Well, how I feel about what I observe. And I confider myself one of an enlightened few and go as far as to say that anyone who DOES have an actual desire to live is the one who is messed up. Again, my own reasoning and opinion.

 

And as I said before, which proves you haven't been listening and understanding as well as you'd like, the removal of things I enjoy as a punishment for something unrelated is, disregarding the fact that it is a childish and lazy method of parenting and completely unfair (while not as extreme as to be literal, on some level I believe in 'an eye for an eye' in that the punishment should be appropriate to the crime), only a material trigger that puts me in a state in which I remember the actual reasons for not wishing to exist on this plane. You can argue all you like, but I'm the only one in my own mind. I know what goes on in there, I am the only one who knows the truth.

 

So, I honour your post my taking out one of my favourite expressions once more.

 

Swing. And miss.

 

 

[tizz]

has anyone considered that it may not be the parents that have dropped teh ball but society in general? Gone are the days of teh extended family with grandparents having as much influence on teh child as the parent and generations of knowledge being simultaneously handed down. Gone are the days of staying home with your kids and entertainment existing within the home (now it's all mickey mouse and chuckie cheese eh) Gone are the days of a mother being unable to part with their child on teh first day of kindergated, and replaced by the days of dropping off teh kid to child care with a bag full of pumped milk at 6 weeks old. Gone are the days of sitting together inteh sun sharing a good book or baking bread together inteh kitchen, replaced by Barney (watching at this very moment) and video game systlems. Gone are the days when schools was for academics, replaced by the school haveing to raise the child and take care of everything from morals and thics to sex education. Society has created an enviorment tat takes the responsibility away from teh parent in general/ Hell the school will soon be able to diagnos and treat your child for psychiatric problems without your consent (thanks georgie). So is it really the parents or is it all of us that are to blame,

 

(personally I throw a lot of blame on the misguided women's lib movement as they created teh two income family by mistake)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

As always, I truly enjoy the way you and so many others think you can pull information about me out of your ass.

 

WE don't have to pull anything. You puke it out almost every post and then some.

 

 

I'm afraid all you've managed to come up with is more shit

 

Yes, your posts do tend to be more of the same crap.

 

I do not look at my own state with any drama, only simple facts.

 

Oh please, what a pathetic joke you are...How above it all you now are Miss "I Want To Die."

 

My "death wish" one might say is due to what I think and see, not how I feel. Well, how I feel about what I observe.

 

You really are weak minded then.

 

And I confider myself one of an enlightened few and go as far as to say that anyone who DOES have an actual desire to live is the one who is messed up. Again, my own reasoning and opinion.

 

Oh yes, another self convinced 17 year old enlightened being. BARF You need a good swift kick in the ass!

 

And as I said before, which proves you haven't been listening and understanding as well as you'd like, the removal of things I enjoy as a punishment for something unrelated is, disregarding the fact that it is a childish and lazy method of parenting and completely unfair (while not as extreme as to be literal, on some level I believe in 'an eye for an eye' in that the punishment should be appropriate to the crime), only a material trigger that puts me in a state in which I remember the actual reasons for not wishing to exist on this plane. You can argue all you like, but I'm the only one in my own mind. I know what goes on in there, I am the only one who knows the truth.

 

You don't know shit you ungrateful, pathetically stupid little girl.

 

So, I honour your post my taking out one of my favourite expressions once more.

 

I'm a loser and I just want people to pay attention to me. Whaaaaaaaaw.

 

Yes, you are a loser, and for the moment, the IGNORE button is my solution for you.

[skategreen]

 

Let's draw from my own life here. Me, I'm borderline suicidal much of the time. There are a few things that keep me happy--basically, keep me alive. I don't, by the way, say any of this in a search for pity or to complain about my life or any of that. I'm just stating the facts to show you how this system can affect a child. I have these few things that make me happy, and my mother recognizes this. Therefore, if I do something she doesn't like, or try to speak for myself instead of being a yes-child, she takes them away. This has brought me within a hair's breadth of actually killing myself. Of course she doesn't know this because I don't have the heart to tell her that she's the one who makes me want to kill myself because, all love etc. aside, that's just a horrible thing to say to someone. She may make me miserable sometimes, but she's certainly not resonsible for the underlying problems that cause this....condition in the first place. (That is to say, she may sometimes light the fuse but she didn't put the powder keg there.)

 

 

Allllright SD...it's time for me to take a whack at you. (whack! Whack!)

(sorry, I'm amusing myself here)

 

Your posts don't show me that you're stupid. I may not agree with them, but I don't get that you're stupid, blessed with low IQ, hard of hearing, etc. So you just gotta know that if you go around posting things as above, you're gonna get mugged. You might as well say..

 

"me? I drink Bleach. Yeah, I really love bleach, I mix it with seltzer and it's just the most refreshing drink! I'd like to share it with my 5 year old sister but she keeps running away from me, screaming. I just don't know WHY!"

 

It's not just the wankers on this board. You jump up on just about any old stage and start proclaiming that you're suicidal, and you're gonna get some flak. See, beneath the foul mouthed nasty nasty crappola that gets slung around here, there lurks a whole bunch of Real People who seem to have really good hearts. They're a bunch of sweetie pies for Christ's sweet sake. This means they wouldn't WANT you to actually off yourself, and view it as BAD condition that needs handling. They're also fairly bright and aren't in the mood to listen to Drama Queen whines. Your boast/proclamation comes off as either a serious 9-11 posted out in cyberspace, or the most pathetic ploy for attention.

 

You can rip at me for saying this, but you're too damn smart not to see that it's true.

 

Me? I read that shit and I just want to offer all kinds of help and advice. I KNOW it can't feel good - and I don't care what kind of crap you might spew on the boards, if you really feel that way, well let's bloody well DO something about it.

 

So don't kid yourself about the flak, n'kay?

 

as for the other stuff - you know I don't agree with anything ever having been taken away from you. It's theft by parents. But I fully disagree with ever hitting. Period. My posts explain why.

[Silver_dragon87]

Since CES has such a closed and judgemental mind, I'll only answer you, Skate. Well, you can the readers at large.

 

I thought I made myself perfectly clear: I said everything here in a completely dispassionate and observational way: I am presenting cold, hard facts from an excellent example: me. (That is, in that I can answer any questions because hell, I'm me! )

 

Repeat: I never asked for nor desired your pity. The fact that I have no desire to live cannot even be called an "issue." It's just a fact. I'm not crying about it--it doesn't bother me to say it. The sky is blue, the lamp on the desk is turned on, the cat's purring, I could care less if I died. It's not a cry for help, it's not drama, it isn't begging for attention. I was merely making statements which I hoped were relevant to my opinions. I was trying to show the connection between a certain method of parenting and a certain frame of mind.

 

(I know of, by the way, two other "cases" of this style of "parenting" and this response.)

 

So, once more, I don't ask for nor require any help, pity, or even attention. So stop telling me who and what I am: I do not have a chemical imbalance, I am not clinically depressed, I don't need to "talk about it" to make myself feel better, or whatever you all think I need. It's simply another fact of life, ironically, and I'm by nature a morbid person. That may be why it all comes out sounding melodramatic; my sense of humour gives the posts a tone, I guess, which could be interpreted as....drama, I s'pose.

 

So I'm sure you all have the best intentions of either pitying me or stickin' it to that whiney bitch, but I assure you I require neither. Obviously attempts to draw reference from personal experience don't fly on this site.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Since CES has such a closed and judgemental mind, I'll only answer you, Skate. Well, you can the readers at large.

 

I thought I made myself perfectly clear: I said everything here in a completely dispassionate and observational way: I am presenting cold, hard facts from an excellent example: me. (That is, in that I can answer any questions because hell, I'm me! )

 

Repeat: I never asked for nor desired your pity. The fact that I have no desire to live cannot even be called an "issue." It's just a fact. I'm not crying about it--it doesn't bother me to say it. The sky is blue, the lamp on the desk is turned on, the cat's purring, I could care less if I died. It's not a cry for help, it's not drama, it isn't begging for attention. I was merely making statements which I hoped were relevant to my opinions. I was trying to show the connection between a certain method of parenting and a certain frame of mind.

 

(I know of, by the way, two other "cases" of this style of "parenting" and this response.)

 

So, once more, I don't ask for nor require any help, pity, or even attention. So stop telling me who and what I am: I do not have a chemical imbalance, I am not clinically depressed, I don't need to "talk about it" to make myself feel better, or whatever you all think I need. It's simply another fact of life, ironically, and I'm by nature a morbid person. That may be why it all comes out sounding melodramatic; my sense of humour gives the posts a tone, I guess, which could be interpreted as....drama, I s'pose.

 

So I'm sure you all have the best intentions of either pitying me or stickin' it to that whiney bitch, but I assure you I require neither. Obviously attempts to draw reference from personal experience don't fly on this site.

 

This dribble definitely requires a translation: Heh Heh Heh

 

Since CES is much to grown up and wise for me to BULLSHIT, I'll only answer you Skate because I erroneously think that I can pull the wool over your eyes and get some sympathy and attention from you; and maybe I'll get some more from the readers at large. Hope springs eternal.

 

 

I thought I made myself perfectly clear; I just want attention. That why I claim to have said everything here in a completely dispassionate and observational way; so that fools will think I'm so wise at 17 - man can I delude myself or what? I'm actually so deluded that I believe that I am presenting cold, hard facts from an excellent example: me. (That is, in that I can answer any questions because hell, I'm me! Thank God there aren

[Outlaw2747]

This dribble definitely requires a translation: Heh Heh Heh

 

 

 

Testing out your powers eh CES?

[tizz]

OK so I reread the CES rewrite first and thought, "WOW this kid is FIANLLY making sense and being honest" LMFAO you got me HEHE

[snafu]

SD

[Outlaw2747]

SD

[snafu]

Keep in mind Snafu, she's not a woman...YET.

 

True and with her mind set she may never make it either.