Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 15, 5:51�pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism > >>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > >><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: > > >>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > >>>>rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > >>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > >>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > >>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > >>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > >>>>>>>give them... > > >>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > >>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > >>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > >>>>>>>Jesus coming back! > > >>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > >>>>>>>who keep their word. > > >>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again? > > >>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion. > >>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God? > >>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > >>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > >>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > >>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > >>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > >>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > >>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > >>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > >>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > >>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > >>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > >>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > >>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > >>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > >>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > >>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > >>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > >>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > >>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > >>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > >>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > >>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > >>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > >>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > >>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > >>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > >>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > >>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?ou seem > >>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?od is like the Bible > >>>>>in one way. ?o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > >>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. ?o matter what atheists > >>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. ?ell, time for Bible study. ? ? ? ? f > >>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of > >>>>>relativity, let me know. > > >>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? > >>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - > > >>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > >>>scripture would be true. > > >>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have > >>no evidence to support that contention. > > > Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 15, 5:52?pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 9:55?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > >>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > >>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > >>>scripture would be true. > > >>Not sure which is funnier, the first part of that sentence or the > >>second... > > >>>Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God? > > >>It most certainly is. Don't you know that? > > > Well, why don't you explain your idea to Jesus Christ when he returns > > to judge the earth? > > And when do you plan on that happening? > > -- What do you mean when do I plan on it happening? The scriptures say the day and the hour no man knoweth, not the angels in heaven, not the Son of God, but the Father only. Robert B. Winn Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 15, 6:32�pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On 15 Apr 2007 15:53:31 -0700, in alt.atheism > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > <1176677611.873022.191...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > >On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > >> <1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: > > >> >On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> > On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > >> >> > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > >> >> > > <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > >> >> > > >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > >> >> > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > >> >> > > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> > > >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > >> >> > > >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > >> >> > > >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > >> >> > > >give them... > > >> >> > > >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > >> >> > > >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > >> >> > > >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > >> >> > > >Jesus coming back! > > >> >> > > >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > >> >> > > >who keep their word. > > >> >> > > >> You're talking about fictional characters again? > > >> >> > > >I saw this in alt religion. > >> >> > > >Where is the simple evidence of no God? > >> >> > > >I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > >> >> > > The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > >> >> > > logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > >> >> > > There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > >> >> > > works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > >> >> > > doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > >> >> > > critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > >> >> > > evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > >> >> > > So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > >> >> > > not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > >> >> > > whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > >> >> > > the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > >> >> > > isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > >> >> > > Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > >> >> > > calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > >> >> > > theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > >> >> > > but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > >> >> > > interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > >> >> > > purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > >> >> > > I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > >> >> > > don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > >> >> > > about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > >> >> > > that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > >> >> > > our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > >> >> > > and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > >> >> > > evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > >> >> > Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > >> >> > that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. /u seem > >> >> > to have no power over his existence whatsoever. /d is like the Bible > >> >> > in one way. / matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > >> >> > to exist and says what it was written to say. / matter what atheists > >> >> > say about God, He continues to exist. %ll, time for Bible study. Quote
Guest H. Wm. Esque Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 "JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message news:1176674527.481727.23040@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > "Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1hwluzq.nj2ssg13dgxkxN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com... > > > H. Wm. Esque <HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > I saw this in alt religion. > > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > Translation: "I see nothing because I stand on the shoulders of > > > intellectual midgets..." > > > > > If you are such of a Giant, where is your evidence. I make > > _no_ claim. But whoever or whatever entitled the original > > post, is claiming to possess evidence of no Gods. > > If he/she or it cannot present this evidence the only > > conclusion is he/she or it is lying. > > Nice try. You're making an implicit claim; that evidence is required > to prove the nonexistence of deities. That's called "shifting the > burden of proof." > No, this is false. Whoever is claiming to have _evidence_ is making the only claim here. Refusing to present this evidence is shirking responsibility. The way things work in the real world is that one > looks around, notes the TOTAL LACK of evidence for deities, and > concludes there's no legitimate reason to accept any theists > unsupported assertion that they exist. > > And in fact, the original poster pointed out that the lack of evidence > of a loving god is evidence that that specific god doesn't exist, > since if it did exist as described and truly wanted everybody to go to > heaven, it would provide the evidence each individual requires. That > such evidence is not provided proves that the specific deity described > doesn't exist. > A specific god? He has attempted to define God and then by holding up his own idea, can demolish the god of his creation then claim to have _evidence_ that god doesn't exist. This of course is a strawman-god . This as I have observed is rather typical. Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 15, 8:36�pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 5:51?pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > > >>rbwinn wrote: > > >>>On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >>>>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism > >>>>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > >>>><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: > > >>>>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > >>>>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > >>>>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > >>>>>>>>>give them... > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > >>>>>>>>>Jesus coming back! > > >>>>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > >>>>>>>>>who keep their word. > > >>>>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again? > > >>>>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion. > >>>>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God? > >>>>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > >>>>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > >>>>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > >>>>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > >>>>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > >>>>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > >>>>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > >>>>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > >>>>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > >>>>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > >>>>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > >>>>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > >>>>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > >>>>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > >>>>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > >>>>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > >>>>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > >>>>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > >>>>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > >>>>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > >>>>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > >>>>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > >>>>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > >>>>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > >>>>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > >>>>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > >>>>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > >>>>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?ou seem > >>>>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?od is like the Bible > >>>>>>>in one way. ?o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > >>>>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. ?o matter what atheists > >>>>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. ?ell, time for Bible study. ? ? ? ? f > >>>>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of > >>>>>>>relativity, let me know. > > >>>>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? > >>>>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > >>>>>scripture would be true. > > >>>>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have > >>>>no evidence to support that contention. > > >>>Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. ?Jesus > >>>Christ said that they were prophets. > > >>And why should we believe Jesus? > > >>>Explain your choice to God, not to me. ?I am not here to judge > >>>choices. > > >>I feel no need to explain myself to God. ?If God is genuinely > >>all-knowing, then he already knows why I made the "choice" I made. > > > Well, how is it that you claim I enter into this some way? Quote
Guest H. Wm. Esque Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 "JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message news:1176676165.585598.137900@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > "JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > news:1176640427.794998.147610@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > > > "JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > > news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > > I saw this in alt religion. > > > > > > So? Does that make your fictional character real? > > > > > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > > > How do you propose the nonexistence of deities be proven? > > > > > I don't. I made no such claim. So. I have nothing to prove. > > The burden of disproof rest not on me. Try as you might > > you cannot disprove this claim. Therefore, since you > > cannot and I have made no claims, then obviously no one > > has any burden of proof. It isn't required. > > So when you asked " Where is the simple evidence of no God?," you were > just blowing smoke? > No, I want to see the "_evidence_ no Gods exist" that the header proclaims. This is not the same as _proof_. Proof is difficult to come by even in science. > In fact, the burden of proof rests on the > positive claimant; in this case, the one asserting deities exist. > Ordinarily I would agree except for one word - evidence . If the poster or you has such evidence, it is "y'alls" duty to present it. Failure to do so is shirking this responsibility. And this is especially heinous when it is the claimant who desires to subvert the faith of the theist, but refuses to present his evidence. There is a term falsification that comes into play. It is not possible to prove anything, most scientist will tell you this, but it is entirely possible to falsify a theory or a claim by pointing to contravening evidence. This has not been done. Instead the tendency is to take refuge and hide behind some fallacious claim of logic. > > There are only two possibilities; either they do or they don't. If > there is no objective, verifiable evidence pointing to them, then > there is no reason to accept the assertion that they exist. > Additionally, if it can be demonstrated that a specific deity is > logically contradictory, that deity can be dismissed as nonexistent. > There is a whole list of logical contradictions for the xian deity. > > > > The xian bible makes claims about the xian deities that can be proven false; > > > e.g., Jesus says one can have anything one wants by asking for it in > > > Jesus' name, but that claim has been repeatedly proven false. Of > > > course, you're welcome to claim that Jesus lied or the bible is wrong, > > > but that doesn't really support your assertion of the existence of > > > deities, does it? How many deities should anyone be expected to prove > > > nonexistent before disbelieving in them? There is NO OBJECTIVE, > > > VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE OF ANY DEITIES. ANYWHERE. EVER. In light of > > > that inconvenient fact, it isn't reasonable, nor is it my > > > responsibility, to prove your particular deity exists; it is yours to > > > prove it does, otherwise there's no legitimate reason for anyone to > > > accept the assertion. > > > > > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > I have yet to see proof of the claim that you don't owe me a million > > > dollars, so I'm expecting a check. > > > > > > What's even more unfortunate is nobody anywhere has ever seen any > > > objective, verifiable evidence for ANY deity, let alone yours. > > > > The reason I insist that your post doesn't address my position is because you fail to address what I actually write. Instead you go off on a tangent and attack certain specific Gods, which has _nothing_ at all to do with anything I have written and doesn't apply. Quote
Guest H. Wm. Esque Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 "John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message news:39a52357kldfqop5p3mujs4pp6fj7k3k2d@4ax.com... > On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:13:46 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > <HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > >"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message > >news:1hwluzq.nj2ssg13dgxkxN%scottrichter422@yahoo.com... > >> H. Wm. Esque <HEsque@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> > >> > I saw this in alt religion. > >> > Where is the simple evidence of no God? > >> > I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > >> > >> Translation: "I see nothing because I stand on the shoulders of > >> intellectual midgets..." > >> > >If you are such of a Giant, where is your evidence. I make > >_no_ claim. But whoever or whatever entitled the original > >post, is claiming to possess evidence of no Gods. > >If he/she or it cannot present this evidence the only > >conclusion is he/she or it is lying. > > <sigh> Do you really not get it, H. Willie, or are you just > pretending to be stupid? > > Once more, with feeling: there is no such thing as evidence that > something doesn't exist > So you are admitting that the proclamation of "simple _evidence_" falsifying Gods does not exist therefore the statement is false. > > There is either evidence for existence or there is not. If there > is evidence (and I mean real evidence, H. Willie, not the bullshit > you God-botherers peddle), > I have peddled nothing. I am holding your feet to the fire. To demonstrating falsifying evidence dethroning Gods. then we know the thing exists, or at least > can assume it probably does, depending on the amount of evidence > available. If there is no real, testable objective evidence that the > thing in question exists, then the logical assumption (and the default > position) is to assume that it does not. > > Got that, H. Willie? > The truth is you don't get it! > > > Quote
Guest DanielSan Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 5:51�pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > >>rbwinn wrote: >> >>>On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >>>>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism >>>>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in >>>><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: >> >>>>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>rbwinn wrote: >> >>>>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" >>>>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to >> >>>>>>>>>give them... >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ >>>>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about >> >>>>>>>>>Jesus coming back! >> >>>>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people >> >>>>>>>>>who keep their word. >> >>>>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again? >> >>>>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion. >>>>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God? >>>>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim. >> >>>>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a >>>>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. >>>>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it >>>>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something >>>>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' >>>>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of >>>>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist. >> >>>>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or >>>>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on >>>>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite >>>>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply >>>>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. >> >>>>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on >>>>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other >>>>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, >>>>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective >>>>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in >>>>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. >> >>>>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly >>>>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, >>>>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", >>>>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste >>>>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations >>>>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as >>>>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. >> >>>>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact >>>>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?ou seem >>>>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?od is like the Bible >>>>>>>in one way. ?o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues >>>>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. ?o matter what atheists >>>>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. ?ell, time for Bible study. ? ? ? ? f >>>>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of >>>>>>>relativity, let me know. >> >>>>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? >>>>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as >>>>>scripture would be true. >> >>>>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have >>>>no evidence to support that contention. >> >>>Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. �Jesus >>>Christ said that they were prophets. >> >>And why should we believe Jesus? >> >> >>>Explain your choice to God, not to me. �I am not here to judge >>>choices. >> >>I feel no need to explain myself to God. �If God is genuinely >>all-knowing, then he already knows why I made the "choice" I made. >> > > Well, how is it that you claim I enter into this some way? I am not talking about you. > As I said > before, discuss it with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the > earth. Sorry, but I see no evidence that this will ever happen. -- DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 ---------------------------------------------------- "In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson Quote
Guest Scott Richter Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote: > I have asked a few third graders what the answer is, and they all seem to > agree with me, not with Einstein. Wow! Your crazy ideas about relativity pass the "third grader" test! What an endorsement! Quote
Guest John Baker Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:39:36 -0700, scottrichter422@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: >rbwinn <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote: > >> I have asked a few third graders what the answer is, and they all seem to >> agree with me, not with Einstein. > >Wow! Your crazy ideas about relativity pass the "third grader" test! >What an endorsement! It's called 'peer review.' :-D Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 9:55?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > > > scripture would be true. > > > > Not sure which is funnier, the first part of that sentence or the second... > > > > > Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God? > > > > It most certainly is. Don't you know that? > > Well, why don't you explain your idea to Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth? So your answer is "wait for a fictional character to become real"? Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 3:12?pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > > > > > > <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > > > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > > > >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > > > > > >give them... > > > > > > > > >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > > > > > > >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > > > > > >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > > > > > >Jesus coming back! > > > > > > > > >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > > > > > >who keep their word. > > > > > > > > >> You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > > > > > >I saw this in alt religion. > > > > > > >Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > > > >I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > > > The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > > > > > > logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > > > > > > There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > > > > > > works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > > > > > > doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > > > > > > critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > > > > > > evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > > > > > > > So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > > > > > > not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > > > > > > whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > > > > > > the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > > > > > > isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > > > > > > > Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > > > > > > calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > > > > > > theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > > > > > > but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > > > > > > interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > > > > > > purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > > > > > > > I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > > > > > > don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > > > > > > about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > > > > > > that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > > > > > > our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > > > > > > and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > > > > > > evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > > > > > > Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > > > > > that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?You seem > > > > > to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?God is like the Bible > > > > > in one way. ?No matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > > > > > to exist and says what it was written to say. ?No matter what atheists > > > > > say about God, He continues to exist. ?Well, time for Bible study. ?If > > > > > you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of > > > > > relativity, let me know. > > > > > > So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? > > > > You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as scripture would be true. > > > > Well, golly, you didn't bother to even read my question, did you? ?Or > > did your deity write ALL holy writings around the world? > > > > So how do you explain the fact that it has been thoroughly proven that > > asking for anything in Jesus' name does absolutely nothing? ?There are > > no qualifiers; there is no weasley "unless god doesn't want to, " or > > "this only works for the apostles." > > > > John 14:13 ?And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, > > that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ?14 If ye shall ask any > > thing in my name, I will do it. > > > > How do you explain that there must be a 2000+ year old person walking > > around? > > > > Matthew 16:28 > > Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not > > taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. > > > > How do you explain that bats must be birds, or cows must chew their > > cud? > > > > Gosh, the list goes on and on. > > > > > Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God? > > > > Of course, since there has never been any objective, verifiable > > evidence supporting the assertion, and since the deity described is > > logically contradictory.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > Well, I certainly think you should take the time to explain your ideas > to Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth. Nice dodge. You do that a lot; pretend the evidence against you doesn't exist. Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 3:29?pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > >news:1176640427.794998.147610@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose > > > to > > > > > give them... > > > > > > > > > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus > > > Christ > > > > > > > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > > > > > > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap > > > about > > > > > Jesus coming back! > > > > > > > > > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are > > > people > > > > > who keep their word. > > > > > > > > You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > > > > I saw this in alt religion. > > > > > > So? ?Does that make your fictional character real? > > > > > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > > > How do you propose the nonexistence of deities be proven? > > > > > I don't. I made no such claim. So. I have nothing to prove. > > > The burden of disproof rest not on me. Try as you might > > > you cannot disprove this claim. ?Therefore, since you > > > cannot and I have made no claims, then obviously no one > > > has any burden of proof. It isn't required. > > > > So when you asked " Where is the simple evidence of no God?," you were > > just blowing smoke? ?In fact, the burden of proof rests on the > > positive claimant; in this case, the one asserting deities exist. > > There are only two possibilities; either they do or they don't. ?If > > there is no objective, verifiable evidence pointing to them, then > > there is no reason to accept the assertion that they exist. > > Additionally, if it can be demonstrated that a specific deity is > > logically contradictory, that deity can be dismissed as nonexistent. > > There is a whole list of logical contradictions for the xian deity. > > > > > > > > > > The xian bible makes claims about the xian deities that can be proven false; > > > > e.g., Jesus says one can have anything one wants by asking for it in > > > > Jesus' name, but that claim has been repeatedly proven false. ?Of > > > > course, you're welcome to claim that Jesus lied or the bible is wrong, > > > > but that doesn't really support your assertion of the existence of > > > > deities, does it? ?How many deities should anyone be expected to prove > > > > nonexistent before disbelieving in them? ?There is NO OBJECTIVE, > > > > VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE OF ANY DEITIES. ?ANYWHERE. ?EVER. ?In light of > > > > that inconvenient fact, it isn't reasonable, nor is it my > > > > responsibility, to prove your particular deity exists; it is yours to > > > > prove it does, otherwise there's no legitimate reason for anyone to > > > > accept the assertion. > > > > > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > I have yet to see proof of the claim that you don't owe me a million > > > > dollars, so I'm expecting a check. > > > > > > What's even more unfortunate is nobody anywhere has ever seen any > > > > objective, verifiable evidence for ANY deity, let alone yours.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > Well, what I think you should do is explain your rules to Jesus Christ > when he returns to judge the earth. Run away, run away! Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 3:30?pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Apr 15, 5:33?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > > > > give them... > > > > > > > > > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > > > > > > > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > > > > > > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > > > > Jesus coming back! > > > > > > > > > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > > > > who keep their word. > > > > > > > > You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > > > > I saw this in alt religion. > > > > > > So? ?Does that make your fictional character real? > > > > > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > > > How do you propose the nonexistence of deities be proven? ?The xian > > > > bible makes claims about the xian deities that can be proven false; > > > > e.g., Jesus says one can have anything one wants by asking for it in > > > > Jesus' name, but that claim has been repeatedly proven false. ?Of > > > > course, you're welcome to claim that Jesus lied or the bible is wrong, > > > > but that doesn't really support your assertion of the existence of > > > > deities, does it? ?How many deities should anyone be expected to prove > > > > nonexistent before disbelieving in them? ?There is NO OBJECTIVE, > > > > VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE OF ANY DEITIES. ?ANYWHERE. ?EVER. ?In light of > > > > that inconvenient fact, it isn't reasonable, nor is it my > > > > responsibility, to prove your particular deity exists; it is yours to > > > > prove it does, otherwise there's no legitimate reason for anyone to > > > > accept the assertion. > > > > > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > I have yet to see proof of the claim that you don't owe me a million > > > > dollars, so I'm expecting a check. > > > > > > What's even more unfortunate is nobody anywhere has ever seen any > > > > objective, verifiable evidence for ANY deity, let alone yours.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > Well, the religion I belong to has evidence that would stand up in > > > court. > > > > Then why, in 2000+ years, has nobody presented it?- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > It is done every day. Where, liar? In your fantasies? If you have objective, verifiable evidence, please present it; you will be the first in over 2000 years. > Presenting it to an atheist is no more > productive than attempting to explain to an atheist that if bolts of > lightning strike both ends of a train at the time an observer at the > middle of the train is opposite an observer on the ground, marks left > on the railroad track by the lightning will be the length of the train > apart. The length of the train moving at the speed of light, which will be different that the length of the train at rest. Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 5:51?pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > >>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > > >><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: > > > > >>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>rbwinn wrote: > > > > >>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > > >>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > >>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > > > >>>>>>>give them... > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > > >>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > > > >>>>>>>Jesus coming back! > > > > >>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > > > >>>>>>>who keep their word. > > > > >>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > >>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion. > > >>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > >>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > >>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > > >>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > > >>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > > >>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > > >>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > > >>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > > >>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > > > >>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > > >>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > > >>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > > >>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > > >>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > > > >>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > > >>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > > >>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > > >>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > > >>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > > >>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > > > >>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > > >>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > > >>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > > >>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > > >>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > > >>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > > >>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > > > >>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > > >>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?ou seem > > >>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?od is like the Bible > > >>>>>in one way. ?o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > > >>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. ?o matter what atheists > > >>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. ?ell, time for Bible study. ? ? ? ? f > > >>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of > > >>>>>relativity, let me know. > > > > >>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? > > >>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - > > > > >>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > > >>>scripture would be true. > > > > >>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have > > >>no evidence to support that contention. > > > > > Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. ?Jesus > > > Christ said that they were prophets. > > > > And why should we believe Jesus? > > > > > Explain your choice to God, not to me. ?I am not here to judge > > > choices. > > > > I feel no need to explain myself to God. ?If God is genuinely > > all-knowing, then he already knows why I made the "choice" I made. > > > Well, how is it that you claim I enter into this some way? As I said > before, discuss it with Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the > earth. What objective, verifiable evidence do you have that figments of your imagination can interact with reality? Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 5:52?pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Apr 15, 9:55?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > >>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > >>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > > >>>scripture would be true. > > > > >>Not sure which is funnier, the first part of that sentence or the > > >>second... > > > > >>>Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God? > > > > >>It most certainly is. Don't you know that? > > > > > Well, why don't you explain your idea to Jesus Christ when he returns > > > to judge the earth? > > > > And when do you plan on that happening? > > > > -- > What do you mean when do I plan on it happening? The scriptures say > the day and the hour no man knoweth, not the angels in heaven, not the > Son of God, but the Father only. And the ruby slippers will take us back to Kansas. Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Pastor Frank wrote: > "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1176600022.622001.298550@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > On Apr 3, 2:59 pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> > >> The simplest and most obvious evidence that there are no gods is the > >> actual > >> existence of millions of atheists. > >> If a god existed that was mean and intolerant it would simply kill the > >> atheists and send them to his Hell. > >> If a loving and caring god existed it would it would directly communicate > >> his existence, wishes and commands to the atheists to convince them of > >> its > >> existence. No loving and caring god would keep himself hidden causing the > >> atheists to spend eternity in his Hell. > > > > What if he is neither "mean and intolerant" or "caring and loving"? > > > Bill is in the habit to ignore our God incarnate, Jesus Christ > "communicating His existence" well enough, and he forgets, that we killed > Him for it. In a popular fairy tale, you mean. Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 rbwinn wrote: > On Apr 15, 6:32?pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On 15 Apr 2007 15:53:31 -0700, in alt.atheism > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > > <1176677611.873022.191...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >> On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > > >> <1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: > > > > >> >On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > >> >> rbwinn wrote: > > >> >> > On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > >> >> > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > > >> >> > > <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > >> >> > > >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > >> >> > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > >> >> > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >> >> > > >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > >> >> > > >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > >> >> > > >give them... > > > > >> >> > > >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > > >> >> > > >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > >> >> > > >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > >> >> > > >Jesus coming back! > > > > >> >> > > >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > >> >> > > >who keep their word. > > > > >> >> > > >> You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > >> >> > > >I saw this in alt religion. > > >> >> > > >Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > >> >> > > >I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > >> >> > > The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > > >> >> > > logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > > >> >> > > There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > > >> >> > > works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > > >> >> > > doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > > >> >> > > critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > > >> >> > > evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > > > >> >> > > So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > > >> >> > > not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > > >> >> > > whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > > >> >> > > the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > > >> >> > > isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > > > >> >> > > Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > > >> >> > > calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > > >> >> > > theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > > >> >> > > but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > > >> >> > > interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > > >> >> > > purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > > > >> >> > > I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > > >> >> > > don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > > >> >> > > about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > > >> >> > > that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > > >> >> > > our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > > >> >> > > and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > > >> >> > > evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > > > >> >> > Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > > >> >> > that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. /u seem > > >> >> > to have no power over his existence whatsoever. /d is like the Bible > > >> >> > in one way. / matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > > >> >> > to exist and says what it was written to say. / matter what atheists > > >> >> > say about God, He continues to exist. %ll, time for Bible study. ? ? f > > >> >> > you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of > > >> >> > relativity, let me know. > > > > >> >> So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? > > >> >> You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - > > > > >> >Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > > >> >scripture would be true. > > > > >> How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have > > >> no evidence to support that contention. > > > > >Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. ?Jesus > > >Christ said that they were prophets. > > > > I've read it. Just because the Bible claims that Jesus said something, > > there is no evidence that the Bible is accurate or that Jesus was in any > > way reliable. > > > > >> >Do you think it is an intelligent position > > >> >to deny the existence of God? > > > > >> As long as there remains no evidence to support the claim that God > > >> exists, the only valid choice is to deny the existence of God. > > > > >Explain your choice to God, not to me. ?I am not here to judge > > >choices. > > > > You love to judge.- Hide quoted text - > > > I love to judge? Well, I did say that if bolts of lightning strike > both ends of a train when an observer on the train was opposite an > observer on the ground, marks left by the lightning on the railroad > tracks would be the length of the train apart. That is not really > judging, though. All it entails is answering a science problem that > Albert Einstein thought up. I have asked a few third graders what the > answer is, and they all seem to agree with me, not with Einstein. I'm sure that makes you proud, to have third graders on your side. Maybe you should publish your findings and change the world. Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 15, 10:39?pm, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > I have asked a few third graders what the answer is, and they all seem to > > agree with me, not with Einstein. > > Wow! Your crazy ideas about relativity pass the "third grader" test! > What an endorsement! It is wonderful to talk to people whose minds are not completely corrupted by false teachings. Robert B. Winn Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 15, 11:12?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:39:36 -0700, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott > > Richter) wrote: > >rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > >> I have asked a few third graders what the answer is, and they all seem to > >> agree with me, not with Einstein. > > >Wow! Your crazy ideas about relativity pass the "third grader" test! > >What an endorsement! > > It's called 'peer review.' :-D I certainly hope so. Maybe some of these third graders will resist false teachings. That would certainly be wonderful. Robert B. Winn Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 16, 4:25?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 9:55?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > > > > scripture would be true. > > > > Not sure which is funnier, the first part of that sentence or the second... > > > > > Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God? > > > > It most certainly is. Don't you know that? > > > Well, why don't you explain your idea to Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth? > > So your answer is "wait for a fictional character to become real"? Well, if you think Jesus Christ is fictional, he would be the one to tell, not me. I am not really interested in your opinion of Jesus Christ. Robert B. Winn Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 16, 4:28�am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 3:12?pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > > > > > > > <HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > >"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > > > > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > >> > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > > > > > > >give them... > > > > > > > > >> > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > > > > > > > >> > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > > > > > >> > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > > > > > > >Jesus coming back! > > > > > > > > >> > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > > > > > > >who keep their word. > > > > > > > > >> You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > > > > > >I saw this in alt religion. > > > > > > > >Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > > > > >I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > > > The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > > > > > > > logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > > > > > > > There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > > > > > > > works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > > > > > > > doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > > > > > > > critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > > > > > > > evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > > > > > > > So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > > > > > > > not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > > > > > > > whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > > > > > > > the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > > > > > > > isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > > > > > > > Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > > > > > > > calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > > > > > > > theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > > > > > > > but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > > > > > > > interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > > > > > > > purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > > > > > > > I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > > > > > > > don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > > > > > > > about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > > > > > > > that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > > > > > > > our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > > > > > > > and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > > > > > > > evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > > > > > > Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > > > > > > that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?You seem > > > > > > to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?God is like the Bible > > > > > > in one way. ?No matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > > > > > > to exist and says what it was written to say. ?No matter what atheists > > > > > > say about God, He continues to exist. ?Well, time for Bible study. ?If > > > > > > you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of > > > > > > relativity, let me know. > > > > > > So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? > > > > > You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as scripture would be true. > > > > Well, golly, you didn't bother to even read my question, did you? ?Or > > > did your deity write ALL holy writings around the world? > > > > So how do you explain the fact that it has been thoroughly proven that > > > asking for anything in Jesus' name does absolutely nothing? ?There are > > > no qualifiers; there is no weasley "unless god doesn't want to, " or > > > "this only works for the apostles." > > > > John 14:13 ?And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, > > > that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ?14 If ye shall ask any > > > thing in my name, I will do it. > > > > How do you explain that there must be a 2000+ year old person walking > > > around? > > > > Matthew 16:28 > > > Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not > > > taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. > > > > How do you explain that bats must be birds, or cows must chew their > > > cud? > > > > Gosh, the list goes on and on. > > > > > Do you think it is an intelligent position to deny the existence of God? > > > > Of course, since there has never been any objective, verifiable > > > evidence supporting the assertion, and since the deity described is > > > logically contradictory.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Well, I certainly think you should take the time to explain your ideas > > to Jesus Christ when he returns to judge the earth. > > Nice dodge. Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 16, 4:29?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 3:29?pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > >news:1176640427.794998.147610@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > > > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > > > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose > > > > to > > > > > > give them... > > > > > > > > > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus > > > > Christ > > > > > > > > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > > > > > > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap > > > > about > > > > > > Jesus coming back! > > > > > > > > > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are > > > > people > > > > > > who keep their word. > > > > > > > > You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > > > > I saw this in alt religion. > > > > > > So? ?Does that make your fictional character real? > > > > > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > > > How do you propose the nonexistence of deities be proven? > > > > > I don't. I made no such claim. So. I have nothing to prove. > > > > The burden of disproof rest not on me. Try as you might > > > > you cannot disprove this claim. ?Therefore, since you > > > > cannot and I have made no claims, then obviously no one > > > > has any burden of proof. It isn't required. > > > > So when you asked " Where is the simple evidence of no God?," you were > > > just blowing smoke? ?In fact, the burden of proof rests on the > > > positive claimant; in this case, the one asserting deities exist. > > > There are only two possibilities; either they do or they don't. ?If > > > there is no objective, verifiable evidence pointing to them, then > > > there is no reason to accept the assertion that they exist. > > > Additionally, if it can be demonstrated that a specific deity is > > > logically contradictory, that deity can be dismissed as nonexistent. > > > There is a whole list of logical contradictions for the xian deity. > > > > > > The xian bible makes claims about the xian deities that can be proven false; > > > > > e.g., Jesus says one can have anything one wants by asking for it in > > > > > Jesus' name, but that claim has been repeatedly proven false. ?Of > > > > > course, you're welcome to claim that Jesus lied or the bible is wrong, > > > > > but that doesn't really support your assertion of the existence of > > > > > deities, does it? ?How many deities should anyone be expected to prove > > > > > nonexistent before disbelieving in them? ?There is NO OBJECTIVE, > > > > > VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE OF ANY DEITIES. ?ANYWHERE. ?EVER. ?In light of > > > > > that inconvenient fact, it isn't reasonable, nor is it my > > > > > responsibility, to prove your particular deity exists; it is yours to > > > > > prove it does, otherwise there's no legitimate reason for anyone to > > > > > accept the assertion. > > > > > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > I have yet to see proof of the claim that you don't owe me a million > > > > > dollars, so I'm expecting a check. > > > > > > What's even more unfortunate is nobody anywhere has ever seen any > > > > > objective, verifiable evidence for ANY deity, let alone yours.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Well, what I think you should do is explain your rules to Jesus Christ > > when he returns to judge the earth. > > Run away, run away!- Hide quoted text - > I could send you a copy of the Bible. Where should I send it? Robert B. Winn Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 16, 4:32�am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 3:30?pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Apr 15, 5:33?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > > > H. Wm. Esque wrote: > > > > > > "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > > > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > > > > > give them... > > > > > > > > > > > We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > > > > > > > > > > returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > > > > > > > That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > > > > > Jesus coming back! > > > > > > > > > Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > > > > > who keep their word. > > > > > > > > You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > > > > I saw this in alt religion. > > > > > > So? ?Does that make your fictional character real? > > > > > > > Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > > > > How do you propose the nonexistence of deities be proven? ?The xian > > > > > bible makes claims about the xian deities that can be proven false; > > > > > e.g., Jesus says one can have anything one wants by asking for it in > > > > > Jesus' name, but that claim has been repeatedly proven false. ?Of > > > > > course, you're welcome to claim that Jesus lied or the bible is wrong, > > > > > but that doesn't really support your assertion of the existence of > > > > > deities, does it? ?How many deities should anyone be expected to prove > > > > > nonexistent before disbelieving in them? ?There is NO OBJECTIVE, > > > > > VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE OF ANY DEITIES. ?ANYWHERE. ?EVER. ?In light of > > > > > that inconvenient fact, it isn't reasonable, nor is it my > > > > > responsibility, to prove your particular deity exists; it is yours to > > > > > prove it does, otherwise there's no legitimate reason for anyone to > > > > > accept the assertion. > > > > > > > I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > > > I have yet to see proof of the claim that you don't owe me a million > > > > > dollars, so I'm expecting a check. > > > > > > What's even more unfortunate is nobody anywhere has ever seen any > > > > > objective, verifiable evidence for ANY deity, let alone yours.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > Well, the religion I belong to has evidence that would stand up in > > > > court. > > > > Then why, in 2000+ years, has nobody presented it?- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > It is done every day. > > Where, liar? Quote
Guest rbwinn Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 On Apr 16, 4:35�am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Apr 15, 5:51?pm, DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote: > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Apr 15, 9:30?am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > >>On 15 Apr 2007 09:26:55 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > >>"rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in > > > >><1176654415.157086.69...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: > > > > >>>On Apr 15, 5:40?am, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>rbwinn wrote: > > > > >>>>>On Apr 14, 10:58?pm, John Baker <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:02:44 -0400, "H. Wm. Esque" > > > >>>>>><HEs...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>"JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote in message > > > >>>>>>>news:1176487439.008093.45310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > >>>>>>>>rbwinn wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>On Apr 13, 8:54?am, scottrichter...@yahoo.com (Scott Richter) wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>rbwinn <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Not too good. ?Jesus Christ has eternal life. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, fictional characters can have any attributes you choose to > > > > >>>>>>>give them... > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>We ll, what I think you should do, Scott, is wait until Jesus Christ > > > >>>>>>>>>>>returns and then you can tell him your ideas in person. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>That's so adorable! You actually believe that Sunday school crap about > > > > >>>>>>>Jesus coming back! > > > > >>>>>>>>>Well, you may not be one of them, Scott, but there actually are people > > > > >>>>>>>who keep their word. > > > > >>>>>>>>You're talking about fictional characters again? > > > > >>>>>>>I saw this in alt religion. > > > >>>>>>>Where is the simple evidence of no God? > > > >>>>>>>I have yet to see the proof of this claim. > > > > >>>>>>The "argument" that there's no evidence that God does not exist is a > > > >>>>>>logical fallacy. Of course there's no evidence that God doesn't exist. > > > >>>>>>There's no evidence that anything doesn't exist. That isn't how it > > > >>>>>>works. Quite simply, there's no such thing as evidence that something > > > >>>>>> doesn't exist. Be it gods, unicorns, elves, fairies or theists' > > > >>>>>>critical thinking skills, nonexistence is inferred from a lack of > > > >>>>>>evidence that the thing in question does exist. > > > > >>>>>>So you see, the question of God's existence doesn't rest on whether or > > > >>>>>>not there's any evidence that he doesn't exist, but rather on > > > >>>>>>whether or not there's any evidence that he does exist, and, despite > > > >>>>>>the rather frequent claims by theists to the contrary, there simply > > > >>>>>>isn't. There is , on the other hand, an abundant lack of evidence. > > > > >>>>>>Yes, I know you think Martin Rees' "brute facts", as you insist on > > > >>>>>>calling them, prove the existence of some sort of creator, and other > > > >>>>>>theists will point to other "evidence" they believe proves their case, > > > >>>>>>but it's all smoke and mirrors. Just your (and their) subjective > > > >>>>>>interpretation of data that can be explained as well or better in > > > >>>>>>purely naturalistic terms. Wishful thinking, nothing more. > > > > >>>>>>I don't begrudge you or any other theist your beliefs, I honestly > > > >>>>>>don't. If believing in a creator makes you feel better about life, > > > >>>>>>about yourself, or about what you see as your "ultimate destiny", > > > >>>>>>that's fine. I don't have a problem with it. But please, don't waste > > > >>>>>>our time and yours with logical fallacies, subjective interpretations > > > >>>>>>and unsupported assertions. Anything can be interpreted as > > > >>>>>>evidence for a creator, but that doesn't mean it actually is. > > > > >>>>>Well, I think that the best evidence that there is a God is the fact > > > >>>>>that you cannot make Him disintegrate with your disclaimers. ?ou seem > > > >>>>>to have no power over his existence whatsoever. ?od is like the Bible > > > >>>>>in one way. ?o matter what atheists say about the Bible, it continues > > > >>>>>to exist and says what it was written to say. ?o matter what atheists > > > >>>>>say about God, He continues to exist. ?ell, time for Bible study.. ? ? ? ? f > > > >>>>>you run into any atheists who want to talk about the theory of > > > >>>>>relativity, let me know. > > > > >>>>So your assertion is that all "holy" writings that exist are true? > > > >>>>You think that's an intelligent position?- Hide quoted text - > > > > >>>Well, since God cannot lie, anything written by one of his prophets as > > > >>>scripture would be true. > > > > >>How do you know that any of the writers were prophets of God? You have > > > >>no evidence to support that contention. > > > > > Sorry, but all that proves is that you have not read the Bible. ?Jesus > > > > Christ said that they were prophets. > > > > And why should we believe Jesus? > > > > > Explain your choice to God, not to me. ?I am not here to judge > > > > choices. > > > > I feel no need to explain myself to God. ?If God is genuinely > > > all-knowing, then he already knows why I made the "choice" I made. > > > Well, how is it that you claim I enter into this some way? Quote
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