Guest JessHC Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 flightlessvacuum wrote: > On Apr 4, 8:28 am, "rbwinn" <rbwi...@juno.com> wrote: > > > What about a God who sent his only Begotten Son to die for the sins of > > atheists? > > It's a sin to think? 1 Corinthians 3 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. Quote
Guest SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 > wrote: >> > God did not send Jesus to die. God sent Jesus to overcome death which >> > he did. There is a fundamental difference here. >> >> so, are you saying that the christian god is completely fucking useless >> and >> couldn't have just waved his magic wand and overcome death without >> someone >> dying? > How would you rise from the dead without dying first? why did jesus have to be sent and then to die to overcome death? why didn't the SUPPOSED ALL-POWERFUL god just wave his magic wand and instantly say "all death is overcome". Quote
Guest SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 > In what way is justice served by punishing an innocent? Why can't an > omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god grant forgiveness without > all the rigamarole? Atheists don't require innocents to die for > someone else's crime; why are they more reasonable and just than an > all powerful, all loving god? > good one, wonder why the christian fruitcakes haven't responded to your post? Quote
Guest Michael Ejercito Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 5, 4:44 pm, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <kill...@killgod.com> wrote: > > wrote: > >> > God did not send Jesus to die. God sent Jesus to overcome death which > >> > he did. There is a fundamental difference here. > > >> so, are you saying that the christian god is completely fucking useless > >> and > >> couldn't have just waved his magic wand and overcome death without > >> someone > >> dying? > > How would you rise from the dead without dying first? > > why did jesus have to be sent and then to die to overcome death? why didn't > the SUPPOSED ALL-POWERFUL god just wave his magic wand and instantly say > "all death is overcome". To SHOW it, of course. Michael Quote
Guest gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 3, 2:59 pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > ... > If a loving and caring god existed it would it would directly communicate > his existence, wishes and commands to the atheists to convince them of its > existence. No loving and caring god would keep himself hidden causing the > atheists to spend eternity in his Hell. Jesus performed miracles and the Pharises were witnesses to these miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof right before their eyes. Sight of God would not be enough for many. It's not a lack of belief in many cases -- it's a desire to continue on in sin, and using all of these reasons as an excuse to continue doing so. Evidence of God's existance is all around us. If lack of belief is honestly all you're missing, look harder at the proof all around you, and start reading the gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John for starters. Praise the Lord! Quote
Guest gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 3, 5:27 pm, Jim07D7 <Jim0...@nospam.net> wrote: > "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> said: > > There is an "argument from disbelief" as follows, that dispenses with > certain gods, including notably the God of many believers. This is not > to be confused with much weaker arguments from disbelief. This argument from disbelief is flawed and disproves nothing. Let me show you: > > quote: [i have added two statements to make it more complete, and one > trivial typo correction.] > > Argument from disbelief: > > Givens: > > God is all powerful > God is all knowing Both completely true. > God is all loving This is the statement that's false, given what you assume is meant by "all loving" in human terms . You ascribe to God what it means in human terms to be all loving, and God is very different from us. We see time and again in the Bible how God is very different from humans in many ways. The human version of "all loving" no doubt means love me, let me pass into heaven no matter what I do, on my own terms, so that I can still do whatever I want, sin all I want, and not be punished (burn in hell -- the second death) for it. God is a Holy God. He loves us, but when we sin there must be punishment for that sin. If he were to not enact punishment for sin, he'd no longer be a Holy God. Then Heaven would be no different than here on earth as those who sin would (yet again) infect heaven just like they've cointinue to infect earth (until they turn away from their sinful ways and call on Jesus Christ to save them from the punishment of their sins and to help them be righteous with the help of the Holy Spirit, of course). So the option of there not being punishment for sin is not an option ! So because of this, God fails the test of being "all loving" in human terms. And that "given" in your argument is false, nullifying the entire argument. "Oh that's so cruel", "he's not all loving", and so on. That's fine by those who believe: we prefer a Holy God, not a God who will allow just as much evil to enter heaven as is currently here on Earth. > Disbelief exists > Hell exists > [Add: Disbelievers who die as such go to Hell.] > > God, being all loving, wants us to believe in him so that we won't end > up in hell. Another false statement. God wants us to admit we are sinners and repent. But even then someone will have to take the punishment for our sins because he is a Holy God. Jesus Christ bore this punishment. We get this gift only if we admit we are sinners, repent, believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and rose from the dead, and then call on the Lord Jesus Christ to save us from the punishment of our sins. At that point we become children of God, our sins are forgiven, and we are saved from punishment from our sins. It's not just a "believe in me and you won't go to hell". Many people believe in Him, but reject Him, and will still end up in hell (i.e., rejecting the gift of Jesus Christ and choosing to take the punishment themselves instead). > God, being all knowing, knows exactly what amount of evidence every > person needs to believe. > God, being all powerful, has the ability to produce the said evidence. > > I'm a living testament to the existence of disbelief, so god is > either: > > A)Not all loving > B)Not all powerful > C)Not all knowing > > Or hell doesn't exist. > > [Add: Or disbelief carries no penalty.] > > unquote > > http://www.skepticatheist.com/articles/whyatheism.php Since (A) is flawed, when that argument falls apart and you are looking for a reason why disbelief exists, then the reason is still (A) God is not all loving in the no-doubt human way you consider someone to be all loving . So that argument for God not existing is completely flawed. So we need to admit we are sinners, repent from that sin (with the idea that we don't want to keep repeating those sins), believe that Jesus Christ bore the punishment for our sins on the cross and rose from the dead, and call on Jesus Christ to save us. Many had the proof of Jesus' miracles right in their face, and disbelieved and/or rejected God anyway. And I'm sure God could continue to blast insane evidence in everyone's faces to overwhelm their senses into forced belief. But even that wouldn't be enough. He doesn't want robots. He doesn't want mindless believers who were practically forced into belief. He wants people to come to belief of their own free will with more than enough evidence all around them already. Adam and Eve had all the evidence they needed: walking with God daily, and STILL they wanted to be separate from God, thereby rejecting him; sinning against our Holy God. But every day more people come to know Jesus! Praise the Lord! Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On 5 Apr 2007 20:47:47 -0700, gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com wrote: >On Apr 3, 2:59 pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> ... >> If a loving and caring god existed it would it would directly communicate >> his existence, wishes and commands to the atheists to convince them of its >> existence. No loving and caring god would keep himself hidden causing the >> atheists to spend eternity in his Hell. > >Jesus performed miracles and the Pharises were witnesses to these >miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping >their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof >right before their eyes. Prove it, moron. > Sight of God would not be enough for many. Yet that's all it would take, liar. >It's not a lack of belief in many cases -- it's a desire to continue >on in sin, and using all of these reasons as an excuse to continue >doing so. A deliberately nasty, personal liar. >Evidence of God's existance is all around us. Then you don't know what "evidence" means, moron. > If lack of belief is >honestly all you're missing, look harder at the proof all around you, >and start reading the gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John for >starters. How do those prove anything, moron? >Praise the Lord! Why, brainwashed moron? Quote
Guest Pastor Dave Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On 5 Apr 2007 20:47:47 -0700, gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com claimed: >On Apr 3, 2:59 pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > ... >> If a loving and caring god existed it would it would >> directly communicate his existence, wishes and >> commands to the atheists to convince them of >> its existence. No loving and caring god would keep >> himself hidden causing the atheists to spend eternity >> in his Hell. > >Jesus performed miracles and the Pharises were >witnesses to these miracles and still they sought >to kill him, all in the name of keeping their power >and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof >right before their eyes. Sight of God would not >be enough for many. It's not a lack of belief in >many cases -- it's a desire to continue on in sin, >and using all of these reasons as an excuse to >continue doing so. > >Evidence of God's existance is all around us. If lack >of belief is honestly all you're missing, look harder >at the proof all around you, and start reading the >gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John for starters. > >Praise the Lord! Amen! The thing is, that the poster said... "If a loving and caring god existed it would it would directly communicate his existence, wishes and commands to the atheists to convince them of its existence. No loving and caring god would keep himself hidden causing the atheists to spend eternity in his Hell." ....and the facts are that: 1) God did directly communicate His existence. Those that were atheists chose not to believe. 2) Atheists dismiss the Bible as some ancient fairy tale. But what if this time was the time that Jesus came? Or even if God appeared with fire and a cloud of smoke and spoke to the people? Let's say that many atheists were converted. What would happen to atheists who lived 2,000 years from now? They would say that the writings written today were a fairy tale and that any video shot was a fake. Thus, what atheists want, is not a reasonable reason to believe in God. They want God to appear to each and every generation. And then, where is faith, that even atheists admit that we must have in loving relationships on Earth, but yet, won't even consider when it comes to God, which makes them nothing more than hypocrites! 3) If God appeared right now, they would chalk it up to either trickery, or mass hallucination, which btw, doesn't exist. But you know what? Instead of confessing that God exists, the atheists would claim that this event was proof that mass hallucination is a real event. So what could we do to convince atheists that God is real? Nothing! Their mind is set on disbelieving and even the appearance of God will not convince them! So why waste the time? Simple! because we are commanded to! God may change the heart of one or more! But what I suggest, is that we not get into arguments of logic with them, unless we ready to beat them at their own game, which includes knowing the answers to what they will claim, ahead of time and even then, that is only a beginning! Only God can touch their hearts in the end. And so, it is the spiritual that is more important and I would humbly suggest that taking their logic away from then is step 1, since their logic does not work under the light of truth and even under the light of logic (see my point above, about hallucination, for an example). -- The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell of a living soul. - John Calvin Quote
Guest Gabriel Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 6, 2:52 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: > On 5 Apr 2007 20:47:47 -0700, gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com wrote: > >Jesus performed miracles and the Pharises were witnesses to these > >miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping > >their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof > >right before their eyes. > > Prove it, moron. .... > Yet that's all it would take, liar. .... > A deliberately nasty, personal liar. .... > Then you don't know what "evidence" means, moron. .... > How do those prove anything, moron? .... > Why, brainwashed moron? Let's stop right there. I'm sure you'd like others to see that you have a valid point that you're trying to make. But trying to make such a point by calling someone you've never met a "moron" numerous times only makes it seem like you are the one that doesn't in fact have a point. After all, if you did have a point, and you were the one that was without a doubt correct, you'd have no need to call someone a moron over and over again and could instead just focus on your point. But instead you do result to such crude insults, making it seem that you don't really have a point and will just try to bash people into submission. Given the tone and nature of your reply, you give people the impression you are quite ignorant of even the most basic manner of social interaction, and that your mind is quite closed to anything but that which you are hatefully clinging onto. Is that the benefit of being an atheist? Do you honestly want others to think that "you, too, can be filled with such hate and guilt .. just reject God and vow that he doesn't exist" ? Tell you what, you show us you're capable of being even remotely civil, and then I'll take you seriously and assume you actually want a serious answer rather than assume you're only interested in spewing hate and insults for reminding you that you feel guilty about something you can't quite put a finger on, or that you'd rather ignore. And for the record, your response in and of itself is more proof that the Bible is the truth in at least two more ways that I'll bother pointing out for others who are reading: One, you clearly seek to persecute anyone who speaks of Jesus Christ and God, which was predicted in the Bible: Mat 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. You've just proved another part of the Bible is correct. And you do so every time you or anyone else insults someone for no other reason than professing Jesus Christ. And two, clearly you're conscience is trying to tell you something. After all, if you were completely fine with personally believing God does not exist, you would not be so motivated with anger and hate to come here and insult so many people that you've never even met. Your own conviction to behave with such hate is more proof staring you right back at you in the mirror that's trying to tell you something. Listen to the guilt you make it sound like you're feeling, and why it's making you lash out with such hate. It sounds like you're not ok with believing God doesn't exist, along with any other atheists who lash out with such hate. Good luck. I will pray for you. I suggest others do so as well. Praise the Lord! Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message snip > > Jesus performed miracles Really? Prove it. and the Pharises were witnesses to these > miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping > their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof What proof? > right before their eyes. Sight of God would not be enough for many. What god? > It's not a lack of belief in many cases -- it's a desire to continue > on in sin, and using all of these reasons as an excuse to continue > doing so. Sorry, but the concept of sin is part of YOUR religion and since I don't practice your religion (or any other, for that matter), this concept doesn't apply to me and my behavior. > Evidence of God's existance is all around us. Really? Prove it. If lack of belief is > honestly all you're missing, look harder at the proof all around you, What proof? > and start reading the gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John for > starters. Been there; done that. Just some chapters in a book. Whoopie doo. > Praise the Lord! Whatever blows your dress up. -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1175834114.259533.237680@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 3, 5:27 pm, Jim07D7 <Jim0...@nospam.net> wrote: >> "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> said: >> >> There is an "argument from disbelief" as follows, that dispenses with >> certain gods, including notably the God of many believers. This is not >> to be confused with much weaker arguments from disbelief. > > This argument from disbelief is flawed and disproves nothing. Let me > show you: Here's a thought - Prove your god exists. And please back it up with objective, verifiable evidence. Look up those words in a dictionary if you don't know what they mean. -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On 6 Apr 2007 07:49:00 -0700, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Apr 6, 2:52 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: >> On 5 Apr 2007 20:47:47 -0700, gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com wrote: >> >Jesus performed miracles and the Pharises were witnesses to these >> >miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping >> >their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof >> >right before their eyes. >> >> Prove it, moron. So why didn't you prove it, moron? Instead of snipping all your other nastiness, stupidity and lies? >> Yet that's all it would take, liar. Was it some other liar also called "Gabriel" who also: "Sight of God would not be enough for many"? You were lying because that is the kind of evidence you need to provide. >> A deliberately nasty, personal liar. Was it some other deliberately nasty, personal liar also called "Gabriel" who said: "It's not a lack of belief in many cases -- it's a desire to continue on in sin, and using all of these reasons as an excuse to continue doing so"? That is a vicious slander. Rather than admit the actual reasons why people don't believe what you do - because yours is simply somebody else's religion, you resort to all kinds of personal nastiness to invent falsehoods as "reasons" why they don't believe what you do. Because you can't grasp the place your religion in the real world where it is merely one of hundreds that are only special to their believers. What makes yours different is that it is one of the few that makes its believers impose it on others at the same time as making them stupidly imagine it supercedes reality in the real world, and makes them slander those who don't put up with it. >> Then you don't know what "evidence" means, moron. Was it some other poster also called "Gabriel" who doesn't know what "evidence" means, who said: "Evidence of God's existance is all around us"? >> How do those prove anything, moron? Was it some other poster also called "Gabriel" who is too stupid to grasp that citing his scripture outside his religion doesn't prove anything, who said: "If lack of belief is honestly all you're missing, look harder at the proof all around you, and start reading the gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John forstarters."? Also note the nastiness of your implication what we're not being honest. And your whining, hypocritical nastiness when you got treated in kind. As well as your escalation of your own nastiness when you invent falsehoods to amateur-psychologise - all because you are incapable of thinking in the real world outside your religion. >... >> Why, brainwashed moron? > >Let's stop right there. I'm sure you'd like others to see that you >have a valid point that you're trying to make. But trying to make such >a point by calling someone you've never met a "moron" numerous times >only makes it seem like you are the one that doesn't in fact have a >point. Then don't be one. > After all, if you did have a point, and you were the one that >was without a doubt correct, you'd have no need to call someone a >moron over and over again and could instead just focus on your point. >But instead you do result to such crude insults, making it seem that >you don't really have a point and will just try to bash people into >submission. Given the tone and nature of your reply, you give people >the impression you are quite ignorant of even the most basic manner of >social interaction, and that your mind is quite closed to anything but >that which you are hatefully clinging onto. Is that the benefit of >being an atheist? Do you honestly want others to think that "you, too, >can be filled with such hate and guilt .. just reject God and vow that >he doesn't exist" ? > >Tell you what, you show us you're capable of being even remotely >civil, and then I'll take you seriously and assume you actually want a >serious answer rather than assume you're only interested in spewing >hate and insults for reminding you that you feel guilty about >something you can't quite put a finger on, or that you'd rather >ignore. > >And for the record, your response in and of itself is more proof that >the Bible is the truth in at least two more ways that I'll bother >pointing out for others who are reading: > >One, you clearly seek to persecute anyone who speaks of Jesus Christ >and God, which was predicted in the Bible: > >Mat 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute >you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my >sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in >heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. > >You've just proved another part of the Bible is correct. And you do so >every time you or anyone else insults someone for no other reason than >professing Jesus Christ. > >And two, clearly you're conscience is trying to tell you something. >After all, if you were completely fine with personally believing God >does not exist, you would not be so motivated with anger and hate to >come here and insult so many people that you've never even met. Your Why do you repeat these stupid, nasty lies? >own conviction to behave with such hate is more proof staring you >right back at you in the mirror that's trying to tell you something. Liar. >Listen to the guilt you make it sound like you're feeling, and why What "guilt", liar? >it's making you lash out with such hate. It sounds like you're not ok >with believing God doesn't exist, along with any other atheists who >lash out with such hate. Liar. >Good luck. I will pray for you. I suggest others do so as well. More stupid, condesceding nastiness. >Praise the Lord! Why would anybodyt want to do that to a figment of your deluded imagination? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 5 Apr 2007 20:47:47 -0700, gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com wrote: >On Apr 3, 2:59 pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> ... >> If a loving and caring god existed it would it would directly communicate >> his existence, wishes and commands to the atheists to convince them of its >> existence. No loving and caring god would keep himself hidden causing the >> atheists to spend eternity in his Hell. > >Jesus performed miracles and the Pharises were witnesses to these >miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping >their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof >right before their eyes. Prove it, moron. Yet that's all it would take, liar. > A deliberately nasty, personal liar. Then you don't know what "evidence" means, moron. > If lack of belief is >honestly all you're missing, look harder at the proof all around you, >and start reading the gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John for >starters. How do those prove anything, moron? >Praise the Lord! Why, brainwashed moron? Quote
Guest Gabriel Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 6, 11:45 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: [All the vicious hate of Christopher's sniped] Why all the hate, Chris? Is that the benefit of being an atheist? If you have a point, why does it seem impossible for you to attempt making it without the hate? Could it be that you're feeling guilty and that you're wrong? You give us the impression you are blinded with hate. If that's not true, why do you keep behaving like it is? Matthew 15:12-14 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. You are clearly offended and cannot see past your own hate to stop from spewing it. Why is that? Why are you filled with so much hate, Chris? Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. If you can't get past your own hatred, it's not possible for useful discussion to take place. I've offered up evidence above, and you try to descredit it with empty insults borne of your own hatred. There's nothing else to be said -- you make it clear where you are currently coming from. I will continue to pray for you. Praise the Lord! Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 11:36:44 -0400, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > ><gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:1175834114.259533.237680@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... >> On Apr 3, 5:27 pm, Jim07D7 <Jim0...@nospam.net> wrote: >>> "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> said: >>> >>> There is an "argument from disbelief" as follows, that dispenses with >>> certain gods, including notably the God of many believers. This is not >>> to be confused with much weaker arguments from disbelief. >> >> This argument from disbelief is flawed and disproves nothing. Let me >> show you: > >Here's a thought - Prove your god exists. He can't. > And please back it up with >objective, verifiable evidence. Look up those words in a dictionary if you >don't know what they mean. He doesn't. He imagines that citing the bible proves anything in the real world. He imagines saying "the evidence is all around you" supports his case. He imagines that making slanderous accusations about those outside his religion supports his case. And when he is treated as the stupid, nasty idiot he shows himself to be, he turns into a whining hypocrite with even more falsehoods which he then amateur psychologises to come up with even more vicious slanders. He's one of those religious lunatics who can't think in terms of the real world. In short: he's a Christian. Quote
Guest Gabriel Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 6, 11:35 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > Jesus performed miracles > > Really? Prove it. It's in the Bible. And to act like "its only in a book, so its false" would simultaneously discredit all other knowledge you claim that's only shown in books and no longer around us. "Who says George Washington was our first President? Prove it.". So now George Washington wasn't our first president, either? Check out http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/pdf/Lesson054.pdf for more information on the same type of proof you have and currently use for all the other facts you currently 'believe' as well. > Been there; done that. Just some chapters in a book. Whoopie doo. See above. > > Praise the Lord! > > Whatever blows your dress up. I'm actually a guy. But this response is giving a poor impression about where you're coming from. Praise the Lord! Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 Gabriel wrote: > On Apr 6, 11:35 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > > <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > > Jesus performed miracles > > > > Really? Prove it. > > It's in the Bible. Oops, you lose. Too bad circular logic is a fallacy. > And to act like "its only in a book, so its false" > would simultaneously discredit all other knowledge you claim that's > only shown in books and no longer around us. Try thinking. > "Who says George > Washington was our first President? Prove it.". So now George > Washington wasn't our first president, either? This is so sad. You're unaware there's actual documented evidence, some even from eyewitnesses, that George was a real person and was really president? How unfortunate for you. > Check out http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/pdf/Lesson054.pdf for > more information on the same type of proof you have and currently use > for all the other facts you currently 'believe' as well. Here's a better idea: provide objective, verifiable evidence for your assertions. Start by not using the bible. > > Been there; done that. Just some chapters in a book. Whoopie doo. > > See above. Learn logic. > > > Praise the Lord! > > > > Whatever blows your dress up. > > I'm actually a guy. But this response is giving a poor impression > about where you're coming from. Not in the least. There's absolutely no legitimate reason for anyone outside your cult to accept any of your unsupported, illogical claims about your cult. > Praise the Lord! In an atheism newsgroup? Which one do you suggest we "praise"? Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On 6 Apr 2007 09:08:59 -0700, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Apr 6, 11:45 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: > >[All the vicious hate of Christopher's sniped] What "vicious hate", liar? I'll remind you of your repeated lies and slanders about atheists, coupled with your stupidity in citing the bible as though it meant anything outside your religion: "Jesus performed miracles and the Pharisees were witnesses to these miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof right before their eyes. Sight of God would not be enough for many. It's not a lack of belief in many cases -- it's a desire to continue on in sin, and using all of these reasons as an excuse to continue doing so. Evidence of God's existence is all around us. If lack of belief is honestly all you're missing, look harder at the proof all around you, and start reading the gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John for starters". 1. "Jesus performed miracles" This assumes whet you're supposed to be proving. 2. "Pharisees were witnesses and still they sought to kill him" This is at best hearsay, at worst mythology 3. "all in the name of keeping their power and their ability to sin" Amateur-psychologising a myth. 4. "blatant proof right before their eyes" Again you presume your myths are real. 5. Sight of God would not be enough for many" A lie, because that would be the evidence you are supposed to be providing. 6. "It's not a lack of belief in many cases -- it's a desire to continue on in sin" A vicious, slanderous falsehood. 7. "using all of these reasons as an excuse to continue doing so" Another vicious, slanderous falsehood. 8. " Evidence of God's existence is all around us" A lie. If there were any you would have provided it by saying what it was and why it was evidence for the god of your religion. 9. "If lack of belief is honestly all you're missing" The imputation that we're not being honest. Another personal lie on your part. 10. "look harder at the proof all around you" What "proof all around us"? You still haven't given any to look at. 11. " and start reading the gospels of Luke, Matthew, Mark and John for starters". Why do you imagine these "prove" anything in the real world outside your religion? >Why all the hate, Chris? What "hate", liar? How is treating you like the nasty, stupid person you showed yourself to be by the above, "hate"? All you are doing here is demonstrating that you are a whining hypocrite who needs to get the beam out of his own eye first. > Is that the benefit of being an atheist? If Are you really this stupid or just pretending? Here's a clue: there is a real world outside your religion, and that is where you are being stupid, rude and nasty. Another clue: we don't have to put up with it. >you have a point, why does it seem impossible for you to attempt >making it without the hate? What "hate", liar? > Could it be that you're feeling guilty and >that you're wrong? Again, are you really this stupid or just pretending? Once again you cannot grasp where your religion stops and the real world starts. So you are incapable of grasping that there are people outside your religion. We have nothing to "feel guilty" about, nor to be wrong about. Your god is merely one of thousands of deity-beliefs. Whether you like it or not, that is a fact. It is also a fact that they are only taken seriously by their believers. > You give us the impression you are blinded with >hate. Once again, you amateur-psychologise your own slanders to come up with something even nastier - and all it does is confirm your own stupidity and nastiness. > If that's not true, why do you keep behaving like it is? Why do you keep pretending that the natural human reaction to your stupidity and nastiness is "hate"? Once again you amateur psychologise your own lies to come up with something even nastier. >Matthew 15:12-14 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest >thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? >But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath >not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders >of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into >the ditch. Thank you for demonstrating exactly what a clueless idiot you are. >You are clearly offended and cannot see past your own hate to stop >from spewing it. What "hate", liar? > Why is that? Why are you filled with so much hate, >Chris? I'm not, liar. Why are you so stupid, and so nasty? >Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast >ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, >and turn again and rend you. Yet more of your nastiness. They're your words because you posted them. It is evidence of your intellectual dishonesty as well as your stupidity, nastiness and hypocrisy that you hide behind the bible to do that. >If you can't get past your own hatred, it's not possible for useful >discussion to take place. What "hatred", liar? If Y O U can't think in the real world, and stop lying about those outside your religion, it's not possible for useful discussion to take place. > I've offered up evidence above, and you try Where, liar? You cited the bible to people outside your religion. How the heck is that evidence for anything? >to descredit it with empty insults borne of your own hatred. There's Another of your lies. It's not evidence. There is nothing to discredit. Let alone for the slanderous reasons you lie about yet again. >nothing else to be said -- you make it clear where you are currently >coming from. The real world outside your religion. But for some reason you can't accept this and need to keep resorting to lies rather than admitting this. > I will continue to pray for you. Feel free to prove there is something to pray to. And I'll think for you - you're obviously incapable of this. >Praise the Lord! Why, moron? Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 Gabriel wrote: > On Apr 6, 11:45 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: > > [All the vicious hate of Christopher's sniped] > > Why all the hate, Chris? It isn't hate, it's lack of patience with one more sanctimonious moron in a long, virtually unending line of sanctimonious morons. You're crossposting to alt.atheism. You have no objective, verifiable evidence for any of your claims. There is no legitimate reason for anyone outside your little cult to accept any of your unsupported, illogical, nonsensical claims about your cult. Why is that so difficult for sanctimonious morons such as yourself to understand? > Is that the benefit of being an atheist? No, the benefit of being an atheist is not being a slave to a myth. > If you have a point, why does it seem impossible for you to attempt making it without the hate? Ah, it obviously hasn't occurred to you that you aren't the first making these stupid claims. Let me offer you a free clue: you aren't the first and you won't be the last. > Could it be that you're feeling guilty and that you're wrong? It could be, but it isn't. Could it be that he's tired of having to explain to idiots that nobody is required to believe what they spout? That seems more likely. > You give us the impression you are blinded with hate. Give WHO the impression? > If that's not true, why do you keep behaving like it is? Because being polite to morons such as yourself seems to invite more abuse. > Matthew 15:12-14 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the > Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every > plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: > they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. > You are clearly offended and cannot see past your own hate to stop from spewing it. You are clearly offensive and cannot see past your own self- righteousness to stop from spewing it. > Why is that? Why are you filled with so much hate, Chris? Why are you filled with so much intolerance for those who don't accept your unsupported assertions, Gabe? > Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before > swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. You know, repeatedly quoting scripture to atheists is pretty offensively arrogant, although not an uncommon xian tactic. Why is it xians such as yourself pick and chose the scripture you want to follow, and reject the rest? Stoned any adulterers or disobedient children to death lately? > If you can't get past your own hatred, it's not possible for useful discussion to take place. It isn't possible because you refuse to be objective about your beliefs. > I've offered up evidence above, No, you've offered unsupported assertions which you refuse to discuss beyond making them. > and you try to descredit it with empty insults borne of your own hatred. Your assertions are discredited by the lack of evidence supporting them. Too bad. > There's nothing else to be said -- And yet, you feel the need to keep talking. Why is that? > you make it clear where you are currently coming from. I will continue to pray for you. Feel free to waste your time in whatever manner you'd like. > Praise the Lord! You mean the one that drowned the entire world? The one that pretended to commit suicide to pay a debt to itself? Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On 6 Apr 2007 09:20:39 -0700, "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Apr 6, 11:35 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: >> <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> >> > Jesus performed miracles >> >> Really? Prove it. > >It's in the Bible. So what? > And to act like "its only in a book, so its false" >would simultaneously discredit all other knowledge you claim that's >only shown in books and no longer around us. Good thing that's not what people say. Which makes you a liar again for putting words into people's mouths. Where is the secular corroboration for any of the bullshit in it? > "Who says George >Washington was our first President? Prove it.". So now George >Washington wasn't our first president, either? More dishonesty, in demanding people prove a straw man you invented. >Check out http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/pdf/Lesson054.pdf for >more information on the same type of proof you have and currently use >for all the other facts you currently 'believe' as well. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha.............. >> Been there; done that. Just some chapters in a book. Whoopie doo. > >See above. See above. >> > Praise the Lord! >> >> Whatever blows your dress up. > >I'm actually a guy. But this response is giving a poor impression >about where you're coming from. Beam. Mote. Eye. Hypocrite. >Praise the Lord! I don't care whether you imagine you're buggering your pretend friend, when you masturbate, or being buggered by it. But stop telling us to do the same. Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On 6 Apr 2007 09:30:12 -0700, "JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote: > >Gabriel wrote: >> On Apr 6, 11:35 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > >> > > Jesus performed miracles >> > >> > Really? Prove it. >> >> It's in the Bible. > >Oops, you lose. Too bad circular logic is a fallacy. > >> And to act like "its only in a book, so its false" >> would simultaneously discredit all other knowledge you claim that's >> only shown in books and no longer around us. > >Try thinking. > >> "Who says George >> Washington was our first President? Prove it.". So now George >> Washington wasn't our first president, either? > >This is so sad. You're unaware there's actual documented evidence, >some even from eyewitnesses, that George was a real person and was >really president? How unfortunate for you. It's a standard theist dishonesty. Washington was a conclusion from the historical process. They didn't start with Washington, but with the war for independence, the presidency, etc and reached him as the conclusion. On the other hand God is a presumption for which they look for anything they can rationalise as evidence. If they had any honesty they would admit that there is no comparison and it doesn't even fool them? >> Check out http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/pdf/Lesson054.pdf for >> more information on the same type of proof you have and currently use >> for all the other facts you currently 'believe' as well. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha......... >Here's a better idea: provide objective, verifiable evidence for your >assertions. Start by not using the bible. He can't. That's why he repeats lies about us to our faces. >> > Been there; done that. Just some chapters in a book. Whoopie doo. >> >> See above. > >Learn logic. Him? Learn? >> > > Praise the Lord! >> > >> > Whatever blows your dress up. >> >> I'm actually a guy. But this response is giving a poor impression >> about where you're coming from. > >Not in the least. There's absolutely no legitimate reason for anyone >outside your cult to accept any of your unsupported, illogical claims >about your cult. Exactly. >> Praise the Lord! > >In an atheism newsgroup? Which one do you suggest we "praise"? He's being deliberately offensive. But then he's a Christian. We know them by their fruits. Quote
Guest JessHC Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 Gabriel wrote: > On Apr 6, 2:52 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: > > On 5 Apr 2007 20:47:47 -0700, gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com wrote: > > >Jesus performed miracles and the Pharises were witnesses to these > > >miracles and still they sought to kill him, all in the name of keeping > > >their power and their ability to sin in spite of the blatant proof > > >right before their eyes. > > > > Prove it, moron. > ... > > Yet that's all it would take, liar. > ... > > A deliberately nasty, personal liar. > ... > > Then you don't know what "evidence" means, moron. > ... > > How do those prove anything, moron? > ... > > Why, brainwashed moron? > > Let's stop right there. I'm sure you'd like others to see that you > have a valid point that you're trying to make. But trying to make such > a point by calling someone you've never met a "moron" numerous times > only makes it seem like you are the one that doesn't in fact have a > point. Actually, I think the point is that you're a moron. > After all, if you did have a point, and you were the one that > was without a doubt correct, you'd have no need to call someone a > moron over and over again and could instead just focus on your point. You mean the point that despite the lack of objective, verifiable evidence, you continue to insist you have evidence? > But instead you do result to such crude insults, making it seem that > you don't really have a point and will just try to bash people into > submission. Given the tone and nature of your reply, you give people > the impression you are quite ignorant of even the most basic manner of > social interaction, and that your mind is quite closed to anything but > that which you are hatefully clinging onto. The tone and nature of his reply is appropriate to the volume of posts like yours that arrive in alt.atheism every day. > Is that the benefit of being an atheist? No, the benefit of being an atheist is not being a slave to a myth. > Do you honestly want others to think that "you, too, > can be filled with such hate and guilt .. just reject God and vow that > he doesn't exist" ? Pointing out the complete lack of objective, verifiable evidence for any deities has nothing to do with "hate and guilt," and everything to do with reason and intellectual honesty. > Tell you what, you show us you're capable of being even remotely > civil, and then I'll take you seriously and assume you actually want a > serious answer rather than assume you're only interested in spewing > hate and insults for reminding you that you feel guilty about > something you can't quite put a finger on, or that you'd rather > ignore. We're under no obligation to be "civil" to you, since you've already demonstrated you have no intention to be civil to us. You begin form the assumption your myth is reality; sorry, we don't grant that assumption. Too bad. > And for the record, your response in and of itself is more proof that > the Bible is the truth in at least two more ways that I'll bother > pointing out for others who are reading: Desperate to disguise the fact that you're merely dodging the request for evidence, hmm? > One, you clearly seek to persecute anyone who speaks of Jesus Christ > and God, which was predicted in the Bible: No, he clearly seeks to point out to any idiots stupid enough to make unsupported assertions about their mythology in alt.atheism had better put up or shut up. Time after time, such idiots fail to do either. > Mat 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute > you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my > sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in > heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Why do you think quoting from your mythology book will impress atheists? Maybe you should read the whole thing before doing so again. > You've just proved another part of the Bible is correct. And you do so > every time you or anyone else insults someone for no other reason than > professing Jesus Christ. Here's a friendly quote from your imaginary stick boy: Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. > And two, clearly you're conscience is trying to tell you something. > After all, if you were completely fine with personally believing God > does not exist, you would not be so motivated with anger and hate to > come here and insult so many people that you've never even met. Why is it so many theists make that statement when crossposting to alt.atheism? > Your > own conviction to behave with such hate is more proof staring you > right back at you in the mirror that's trying to tell you something. > Listen to the guilt you make it sound like you're feeling, and why > it's making you lash out with such hate. It sounds like you're not ok > with believing God doesn't exist, along with any other atheists who > lash out with such hate. Nice rationalization. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with reality, but then, that's true of at least one other of your beliefs I can think of. > Good luck. I will pray for you. I suggest others do so as well. Huh. Are you aware what your bible says about praying? > Praise the Lord! Please do it elsewhere. Quote
Guest Gabriel Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 6, 12:45 pm, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: > On 6 Apr 2007 09:08:59 -0700, "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > >On Apr 6, 11:45 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: > > >[All the vicious hate of Christopher's sniped] > > What "vicious hate", liar? If you're going to be so blind that you cannot even see the hateful remarks that make up most of your posts, you've already shown you are incapable of rational thought. You call someone a moron numerous times, which is clearly an obvious sign of hate, and then in response you say > What "vicious hate", liar? You make it abundantly clear you are currently incapable of rational discourse. I will pray for you and hope God touches your heart at some point in your life. The least you can do is start working on your hate -- whether you believe in God or not, at the very least it's not healthy. Take care and God Bless! Praise the Lord! Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1175876439.232155.68270@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 6, 11:35 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: >> <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> >> > Jesus performed miracles >> >> Really? Prove it. > > It's in the Bible. And to act like "its only in a book, so its false" Fine. So where's the objective, verifiable evidence that it's true? -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
Guest Gabriel Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 On Apr 6, 12:49 pm, "JessHC" <jes...@phantomemail.com> wrote: > Gabriel wrote: > > On Apr 6, 11:45 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote: > > > [All the vicious hate of Christopher's sniped] > > > Why all the hate, Chris? > > It isn't hate, it's lack of patience with one more sanctimonious moron > in a long, virtually unending line of sanctimonious morons. And here you are bringing your own hate as well. How interesting that the atheists I've seen so far all seem to have one thing in common: they are full of hatred. I'm sorry hearing about Jesus Christ brings out so much hate in you. You are free to not believe the Bible is the Word of God. I wish you well in dealing with all the anger you feel when other people are spreading the Gospel. I will pray for you. Praise the Lord! Quote
Guest Scott Richter Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 Gabriel <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Jesus performed miracles > > > > Really? Prove it. > > It's in the Bible. And to act like "its only in a book, so its false" > would simultaneously discredit all other knowledge you claim that's > only shown in books and no longer around us. As opposed to what? "It's in the Bible, so it's true"? As far as I can tell that sums up your entire argument, and believe me when I tell you we've heard that bullshit a million times before. This is why people have been insulting you, calling you a moron, because you come here with nothing more original than "it's in the Bible, so it must be true". Then you get upset when you are attacked. If you have something interesting (or even original) to say then say it, otherwise, stop wasting our time. The last thing we need is another Dittohead for Christ. Quote
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