wpyo about the big oil companies?

[theflflash]

wpyo about the large oil companies and the price of gas? what do you think we can do about it?

[builder]

wpyo about the large oil companies and the price of gas? what do you think we can do about it?

 

Sell your car and buy a pushbike.

[RoyalOrleans]

Here's what I think...

 

POST IN THE CORRECT FORUM, DOTARD!

[RoyalOrleans]

I moved this thread to the Speak Your Mind forum for two reasons: Number One: The price of oil is ridiculous, but it doesn't piss me off. Number Two: I figured it would serve us better to discuss the problems (even though similar posts exist) rather than blasting them.

 

Now... we can discuss big oil companies and how they piss us off.

 

The price of gasoline does not piss me off because I am first and foremost a Capitalist. Demand goes up, supply is short... raise the prices... by all means. The demand is low and the supply still short maintain the national average. It's that simple.

 

Do I distrust the big oil companies? No, not really. There is little margin to be made off of low supply and increased prices. Price gouging? Perhaps, but it would have to be proven and the statutes of gouging are so vague its not worth debating.

[Komrade Vostok Hazard]

I use public transportation so its really no big deal to me. Other reasons why I'm NOT pissed off about it is because soon no one wil be able to afford gas and then the companies inflation tactics will sting themselves because no one will be buying. That will teach them.

[RoyalOrleans]

I use public transportation so its really no big deal to me. Other reasons why I'm NOT pissed off about it is because soon no one wil be able to afford gas and then the companies inflation tactics will sting themselves because no one will be buying. That will teach them.

 

One of the many pitfalls of Capitalism. The same could happen to the tobacco companies, an institution I've supported since I was fifteen.

[theflflash]

I moved this thread to the Speak Your Mind forum for two reasons: Number One: The price of oil is ridiculous, but it doesn't piss me off. Number Two: I figured it would serve us better to discuss the problems (even though similar posts exist) rather than blasting them.

 

Now... we can discuss big oil companies and how they piss us off.

 

The price of gasoline does not piss me off because I am first and foremost a Capitalist. Demand goes up, supply is short... raise the prices... by all means. The demand is low and the supply still short maintain the national average. It's that simple.

 

Do I distrust the big oil companies? No, not really. There is little margin to be made off of low supply and increased prices. Price gouging? Perhaps, but it would have to be proven and the statutes of gouging are so vague its not worth debating.

 

so by your point of view, the oil companies have the RIGHT to brutalize the world economy with artificially inflated prices because that is the capatalist way ? it has nothing to do with actual supply and demand, they are supplying the demand as we speak, only at much higher prices. it has everything to do with control of the supply thereby controling the demand they made a profit when gas sold for $10.00 a barrel. Exxon just posted the largest single quarter profit in the history of the WORLD! 11 billion dollars! why do you think gouging will be hard to prove? the largest single quarter profit in history IS THE PROOF!

[Jhony5]

I moved this thread to the Speak Your Mind forum for two reasons: Number One: The price of oil is ridiculous, but it doesn't piss me off. Number Two: I figured it would serve us better to discuss the problems (even though similar posts exist) rather than blasting them.

 

Now... we can discuss big oil companies and how they piss us off.

 

The price of gasoline does not piss me off because I am first and foremost a Capitalist. Demand goes up, supply is short... raise the prices... by all means. The demand is low and the supply still short maintain the national average. It's that simple.

 

Do I distrust the big oil companies? No, not really. There is little margin to be made off of low supply and increased prices. Price gouging? Perhaps, but it would have to be proven and the statutes of gouging are so vague its not worth debating.

 

 

THERE IS NO COMPETITION IN OIL. If there is then please enlighten me.

At the start of the Katrina gas jacking, when gas was $3-$4 per gallon, then the price of a barrell should have been between $90- $110. But it wasn't, it was at $65 on the international market. So why so high? It was so that the oil companies could achieve their goal of record profits. The big 3 oil companies achieved record profits during this period, the 3rd quarter. Was this nessasary? No.

 

If there was a free market in oil, as you pig headed capitolist fags assert, then i'll provide a scenario which might have played out. Post-Katrina, when gas prices soared above $3, company X raises their price per gallon to $3.50. Company Y choses not to move their price from its current listing at $2.20. Remember this is a free market and oil companies are in a competative mode in order to draw higher profits from the comsumer. Comapany X has a station across from Y. Which company do you think would draw higher profits? I'm not going to comapny X for my oil needs and neither will anyone else. Company Y would make giant profit while company X would lose money. Our government would not allow the communications industry to monopolize and stratigize to coordinate price levels, then why do they allow the oil industry to do so? If the government had not shut down AT&T's efforts to monopolize, then I bet we would be paying upwards of $30 to access the internet on dial-up service alone.

And that supply and demand bullshit I ain't buying. The demand is always high, it is always seasonal, and it is always easily predictable. The supply is set by the oil companies. They control supply and demand, not me, not you. If I could take my business to another company because I feel as though the other is gouging, then what would the result be? I have no choice, no option, my hands are tied. That is not free market to me. What is it to you?

[TheJenn88]

Well, I could sit here and complain about gas prices, but for one obvious reason, my feedback is invalid: I don't drive!

 

But other than that, I'll regugitate a part of an argument that I heard, and happen to agree with.

 

Ya'll know what sin tax is - high taxes on items that burden your own health, and perhaps the health system (moreso in Canada because our healthcare is public, free). I agree that for items like cigarettes, alcohol, gas, etc. should be taxed. Look at the effects that these things have on the environment and on our own health. Each year our governments pay RIDICULOUS amounts of money to cover those ailing from cancer, or liver disease, or repairing the environment and those affected by smog. The money doesn't come from the government's ass. It has to come from us, and why shouldn't those creating the problem be responsible for fixing it? If you smoke, why should someone else have to pay for your cancer treatment? How about you pay an insane amount of dollars for cigarrettes. If that doesn't deter you, at least more money is going into public health care to take care of your sorry ass in the future.

 

As much as sin tax is a pain in the ass, the biggest pain in the ass is the human population. If we're going to be indecent, and not care, we should pay for it.

[Jhony5]

Well, I could sit here and complain about gas prices, but for one obvious reason, my feedback is invalid: I don't drive!

 

But other than that, I'll regugitate a part of an argument that I heard, and happen to agree with.

 

Ya'll know what sin tax is - high taxes on items that burden your own health, and perhaps the health system (moreso in Canada because our healthcare is public, free). I agree that for items like cigarettes, alcohol, gas, etc. should be taxed. Look at the effects that these things have on the environment and on our own health. Each year our governments pay RIDICULOUS amounts of money to cover those ailing from cancer, or liver disease, or repairing the environment and those affected by smog. The money doesn't come from the government's ass. It has to come from us, and why shouldn't those creating the problem be responsible for fixing it? If you smoke, why should someone else have to pay for your cancer treatment? How about you pay an insane amount of dollars for cigarrettes. If that doesn't deter you, at least more money is going into public health care to take care of your sorry ass in the future.

 

As much as sin tax is a pain in the ass, the biggest pain in the ass is the human population. If we're going to be indecent, and not care, we should pay for it.

 

 

I hear what your saying on the sin tax issue but I have to say that this is just another example of government using any excuse to get a tax off the people. We all get sick and die from something. My grandmother is currently losing her battle to lung cancer and is undergoing long and exspensive treatment. She has never smoked and has always avoided being around smokers. It's a myth that many buy into, that lung cancer is ONLY caused by smoking.

What i'm saying, Jenn, is that people who drink and smoke don't burden our society any more then clumsy folks whom fall down their stairs. The #1 cause of accidental deaths in the home is slips'n'falls. The #1 cause of death among women is heart disease. Should we take this "sin tax" to the next logical step and add it to products like fast food, butter, crisco, eggs, and cheese. Oh and hey how about city water, that shit has got some wierd chemicals in it. Shoestrings, ya, those menacing little strings cause so many people to trip and injure themselves. How about cars? Cars send more folks to the hospital then any other material object combined.

 

My point is that allowing the government to take advantage of "immoral" or so called "sinfull" products is yet another example of religion/morality being handed down to us in the form of $$$. Think about it, "sin tax".

[RoyalOrleans]

so by your point of view, the oil companies have the RIGHT to brutalize the world economy with artificially inflated prices because that is the capatalist way ? it has nothing to do with actual supply and demand, they are supplying the demand as we speak, only at much higher prices. it has everything to do with control of the supply thereby controling the demand they made a profit when gas sold for $10.00 a barrel. Exxon just posted the largest single quarter profit in the history of the WORLD! 11 billion dollars! why do you think gouging will be hard to prove? the largest single quarter profit in history IS THE PROOF!

 

As far as individual gas station chains, price gouging would be easy to prove. Big Oil has too many friends and has too much clout to be stricken with price gouging assumptions.

 

I mean, it'd be different if the USA didn't depend on oil so much. Since we do, all we can do is bitch and moan. That's why I drive an economic and practical vehicle.

[RoyalOrleans]

THERE IS NO COMPETITION IN OIL. If there is then please enlighten me.

At the start of the Katrina gas jacking, when gas was $3-$4 per gallon, then the price of a barrell should have been between $90- $110. But it wasn't, it was at $65 on the international market. So why so high? It was so that the oil companies could achieve their goal of record profits. The big 3 oil companies achieved record profits during this period, the 3rd quarter. Was this nessasary? No.

 

If there was a free market in oil, as you pig headed capitolist fags assert, then i'll provide a scenario which might have played out. Post-Katrina, when gas prices soared above $3, company X raises their price per gallon to $3.50. Company Y choses not to move their price from its current listing at $2.20. Remember this is a free market and oil companies are in a competative mode in order to draw higher profits from the comsumer. Comapany X has a station across from Y. Which company do you think would draw higher profits? I'm not going to comapny X for my oil needs and neither will anyone else. Company Y would make giant profit while company X would lose money. Our government would not allow the communications industry to monopolize and stratigize to coordinate price levels, then why do they allow the oil industry to do so? If the government had not shut down AT&T's efforts to monopolize, then I bet we would be paying upwards of $30 to access the internet on dial-up service alone.

And that supply and demand bullshit I ain't buying. The demand is always high, it is always seasonal, and it is always easily predictable. The supply is set by the oil companies. They control supply and demand, not me, not you. If I could take my business to another company because I feel as though the other is gouging, then what would the result be? I have no choice, no option, my hands are tied. That is not free market to me. What is it to you?

 

I am not saying that Big Oil is right in what they are doing. It's horrible! Atrocious! Insane! Again I will say, what the fuck can we do? Bitch? That solves a lot.

[Jhony5]

I am not saying that Big Oil is right in what they are doing. It's horrible! Atrocious! Insane! Again I will say, what the fuck can we do? Bitch? That solves a lot.

 

 

Dammit your right again, uggg.

 

I have an idea. Remember the Boston tea party? Lets rise up and start chucking barrells of crude into the harbor. Ya, thats the ticket. That way we can solve two problems at once. First we can stick it to the oil companies by throwing away their profits. Secondly we can kill off the menacing dolphins who are jacking up the price of tuna by destroying the nets.

[TheJenn88]

I hear what your saying on the sin tax issue but I have to say that this is just another example of government using any excuse to get a tax off the people. We all get sick and die from something. My grandmother is currently losing her battle to lung cancer and is undergoing long and exspensive treatment. She has never smoked and has always avoided being around smokers. It's a myth that many buy into, that lung cancer is ONLY caused by smoking.

What i'm saying, Jenn, is that people who drink and smoke don't burden our society any more then clumsy folks whom fall down their stairs. The #1 cause of accidental deaths in the home is slips'n'falls. The #1 cause of death among women is heart disease. Should we take this "sin tax" to the next logical step and add it to products like fast food, butter, crisco, eggs, and cheese. Oh and hey how about city water, that shit has got some wierd chemicals in it. Shoestrings, ya, those menacing little strings cause so many people to trip and injure themselves. How about cars? Cars send more folks to the hospital then any other material object combined.

 

My point is that allowing the government to take advantage of "immoral" or so called "sinfull" products is yet another example of religion/morality being handed down to us in the form of $$$. Think about it, "sin tax".

 

Oh, of course you're right at that, too, that "sin tax" is mostly a ploy for the government to gain funds for this and that. And just to clarify, I don't believe that lung cancer is caused only by smoking. I just meant to say that one is more prone to cancer of the lungs if they do smoke.

 

You're probably also right (I don't know the statistics) of accidental deaths, and leading deaths in certain genders, and the like. But that doesn't excuse the fact that people are furthing problems by abusing alcohol, smoking, and harming the environment through excessive use of gasoline. However, to my knowledge, most people don't purposely trip down a flight of stairs like one would more conciously smoke, drink, or fill up their gas tank.

 

I think it is the right and responsibility of people who are fortunate like myself to take care of themselves as best as possible, and if they don't, they should be taxed for it, or have to pay for it some way or another - especially when we rely on a "free" health-care system. It's not fair that people pay the same amount for a pack of cigarettes that I would for a bag of milk, and I pay the same amount of income tax as they do, yet they end up sucking thousands out of the health-care system because they get cancer, yet I live to a ripe old age. Sure, in many cases it's a false sense of security to sheep-socialists to actually believe that every penny of sintax is being fed back into the health care system, or improving the environment, but at least the money might be going into something, and those making bad decisions are still penalized.

 

On that bit about the government handing down religion and morals... to an extent I agree. But I also very much disagree. I don't care how moral or immoral someone declares smoking, drinking, and the burning of fossil fuels to be. The fact of the matter is that since it affects other people negatively, we shouldn't be the ones who have to pay for it. I don't see how people paying for themselves is determining morals. We KNOW that the burning of fossil fuels is bad for the environment. So we tax gas (supposedly) to deter waste, and to help research better energy sources. Same with drinking. If you're an alcoholic, who cares, but damn you to hell if my tax dollars get fed into paying for your new liver, and surgeries, because you weren't taxed enough on all that booze you were drinking.

 

To summarize, I understand what you're saying, good arguments. I just happen to disagree half-way with a couple of your points. Also, keep in mind that I'm trying to argue from the viewpoint of a hard-left politics teacher. He doesn't allow us much freedom of thought and so I have his opinions beat into (but not necessarily believed) in my head, and I figured there was no harm in debating something

[eisanbt]

In the city, I just don't get the idea of a car.

 

I get by great with just buses and bikes. As do MANY i know. Now and again a car is needed for for out of town excursions but these people who just take their carfor the 10min drive to work and pay 20$ of gas so they can sit there, idle and listen to the oldies station and a McDonalds commercial. Its just a waste.

[RoyalOrleans]

Dammit your right again, uggg.

 

I have an idea. Remember the Boston tea party? Lets rise up and start chucking barrells of crude into the harbor. Ya, thats the ticket. That way we can solve two problems at once. First we can stick it to the oil companies by throwing away their profits. Secondly we can kill off the menacing dolphins who are jacking up the price of tuna by destroying the nets.

 

Let's get really wasted first!

 

That's what we need in this country! An uproar, a revolution. Ok... I'll just bitch.

[TheJenn88]

Dammit your right again, uggg.

 

I have an idea. Remember the Boston tea party? Lets rise up and start chucking barrells of crude into the harbor. Ya, thats the ticket.

 

:mad:SAVE THE SEALS!!!!

[Jhony5]

Let's get really wasted first!

 

That's what we need in this country! An uproar, a revolution. Ok... I'll just bitch.

 

 

Bitching is an American pastime. Thats what I love about freedom.

 

And to Jenn, you are correct that smokers (yes I smoke anything flamable) burden society to some extent. However, think about it like this. Mindless smokers like myself fund the American Cancer Association workers whom would have to find another line of work were it not for smokers. Doesn't that in some way help boost the economy? I mean I put food on the plates of thousands of cancer researchers. Seriously, i'm not trying to smartass here. Many thousands of people make a living from the poor choices of others which, to some degree, has to spur the economy. Just think of all the jobs that are created to battle stupidity and bad habits. Theres big money in battling sickness. If a person gets paid, say, $80,000 in yearly salary to research the effects of ciggarettes then he also pays thousands of dollars in taxes towards medicare. Now if no one smoked he would'nt have that job and the money would'nt be there. Does this in any way offset the burden provided the tax payers by the smoking persons of our society? Probably not but it is intresting to think about.

[TheJenn88]

Bitching is an American pastime. Thats what I love about freedom.

 

And to Jenn, you are correct that smokers (yes I smoke anything flamable) burden society to some extent. However, think about it like this. Mindless smokers like myself fund the American Cancer Association workers whom would have to find another line of work were it not for smokers. Doesn't that in some way help boost the economy? I mean I put food on the plates of thousands of cancer researchers. Seriously, i'm not trying to smartass here. Many thousands of people make a living from the poor choices of others which, to some degree, has to spur the economy. Just think of all the jobs that are created to battle stupidity and bad habits. Theres big money in battling sickness. If a person gets paid, say, $80,000 in yearly salary to research the effects of ciggarettes then he also pays thousands of dollars in taxes towards medicare. Now if no one smoked he would'nt have that job and the money would'nt be there. Does this in any way offset the burden provided the tax payers by the smoking persons of our society? Probably not but it is intresting to think about.

 

That is an interesting thought. And I don't judge people for smoking, especially since there are points in time where I have doneso myself. I can still admit it's an idiot thing to do.

 

Again, for us it's hard to debate since we're living in two countries with radically different health-care policies. The only other countries in the world that foster the one-tier health-care systems as canada are china, cuba..and I think one or two other countries. But you get the picture, hah. In Canada, the only way to offset the cost of the burden of people who make bad decisions is to tax outrageously. otherwise we're screwed, because there's no such thing as private AND public health care, or medicare. It's free for all, no matter how much money you have. (obviously there are certain things that aren't covered, but let's not get into that).

[Jhony5]

In the city, I just don't get the idea of a car.

 

I get by great with just buses and bikes. As do MANY i know. Now and again a car is needed for for out of town excursions but these people who just take their carfor the 10min drive to work and pay 20$ of gas so they can sit there, idle and listen to the oldies station and a McDonalds commercial. Its just a waste.

 

 

Now thats the most un-american way of thinking I have ever heard. Fuck that shit bro. SUCK IT DRY!!! I'm a member of the monroe county 4x4 association and we waste more gas stuck in a mud hole then most spend driving to work and back. http://www.monroecounty4x4club.net

 

Your wasting your life by not joining in the excess. By the time fossil fuels are depleted our society will have develpoed alternative energy sources that actualy work as well as oil. So sit in traffic in your 2 ton SUV with the air conditioner cranked while eating a quater pounder. Ya god damn hippie.