hugo Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Number of persons executed in the United States, 1930-2004 Year Executions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1966 1 1967 2 1968 0 1969 0 1970 0 1971 0 1972 0 1973 0 1974 0 1975 0 1976 0 1977 1 1978 0 1979 2 1980 0 Year Homicide rate 1965 5.1 1966 5.6 1967 6.2 1968 6.9 1969 7.3 1970 7.9 1971 8.6 1972 9.0 1973 9.4 1974 9.8 1975 9.6 1976 8.8 1977 8.8 1978 9.0 1979 9.7 1980 10.2 We tried a moratorium on the death penalty once. The result...a dramatic increase in the homicide rate. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
builder Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Killing people for murder is so justified. Not. Put them in the head-stocks, and let them hang there for a few weeks. A fairly secure chastity belt might be in order, depending on the severity of the initial crime. Quote Persevere, it pisses people off.
Jhony5 Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Hugo, dude.....what the hell is with that bias jerk ass study you qouted. Pure comedy. It spoke of convicts reoffending against society. People that are on death row will never be paroled, unless they are innocent of course. Which I already provided statistics on that. 17 exhonerated death row inmates in just the last 4 years. I have yet to hear you address that cold hard fact. 17 lives that were not only wrongly known as murderers, but they would have been killed were it not for the efforts of those who fight the overzealous justice system. I don't agree with your assertions and your junk-statistics on deterrence. Merely opinion with no basis. You made mention of D.C. and its high murder rate being due to its largely black and poor demographic. Which I fully agree with. There is no way these doped up drug addicts even stop for one second to ponder the outcome of their violent crimes. There is no way you could convince me that some G thug from D.C. is going to stop before a murder and say "Damn dog, I don't wanna do this yo, the death penalty scares me dog". LOL, ya right. The typical violent street crime is comitted with no pretense of being caught. If you ask a gang banger if hes scared to die then your not knowledgable about the mentality of gang warfare. When it comes to premeditated crimes such as the Scott Peterson case, effort is put towards clean execution of the murder as opposed to consequences for the act itself. In short, when contimplating murder, the outcome of being caught, is the end of your life as you know it. Everyone knows that your fucked for life, be it life inprisonment or death, when your convicted of capitol murder. The thinking on deterrence is flawed. If I thought about stealing a DVD, I would rationalize the crime as not worth the penalty of jailtime. The presense of jailtime has served as a deterrent. If i'm considering killing my wife for insurance money, the consequence of life in prison would rationalize the crime as not worth the penalty. Its not about "what will the penalty be if i'm caught", its about "will I get away with it". If one arrives at the conclusion that they can get away with it, then the crime procedes as planned, with no weight being placed towards ramifacations resulting from the said crime. Quote i am sofa king we todd did.
angie Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 I still don't buy the deterrence bit. Here are a few excerpts (and of course A LINK, which you haven't provided, Hugo) http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167#Deaths%20of%20Children%20in%20the%20U.S.:%20New%20Report According to statistics from the latest FBI Uniform Crime Report, regions of the country that use the death penalty the least are the safest for police officers. Police are most in danger in the south, which accounts for 80% of all executions (90% in 2000). From 1989-1998, 292 law enforcement officers were feloniously killed in the south, 125 in the west, 121 in the midwest, and 80 in the northeast, the region with the fewest execution - less than 1%. When comparisons are made between states with the death penalty and states without, the majority of death penalty states show murder rates higher than non-death penalty states. The average of murder rates per 100,000 population in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5, whereas the average of murder rates among non-death penalty states was only 3.6. A look at neighboring death penalty and non-death penalty states show similar trends. Death penalty states usually have a higher murder rate than their neighboring non-death penalty states. http://www.religioustolerance.org/execut4.htm From 1976 to 1996, the number of executions per year in the United States has increased from 0 to just under 60. The homicide rate per 100,000 population has remained constant at just under 10. 3 A report of the Bureau of Justice Statistics showed that during 1996, Southern states, where about 81% of the executions are performed, have an average murder rate of 9 per 100,000 population. States in the Northeast are responsible for 1% of the executions and have a murder rate of 5.4 Do I think they should abolish the death penalty? No. In some cases, I could care less if it serves as a deterrent or not. The son of a bitch deserves to die. However, I think the policies on crimes eligible for the death penalty need to be fine tuned. There have been too many people exonerated over the last decade to ignore. Quote http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.snopes.com http://www.breakthechain.org STOP THE SPAM!! Click Me You Know You Want To
RoyalOrleans Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Ok folk... I haven't thoroughly read the posts made by each and every one of you. Just skimmed them... Here's a little excerpt from a play I wrote entitled, "If I kill This Nigga, I Go To The Chair". Que'bynn (Holding a gat sideways, trained on DeShaWayne.): I'm going to kill you, nigga! You ate the last Ho-ho, muthafucka! DeShaWayne (Trembling): They's good, nigga! So I ated them! Que'bynn (Cocks pistol): You gonna die tonight, sucka! DeShaWayne (Flinches): You'll go to the chair! Deathrow, muthafucka! Que'bynn (Suddenly realizes what he has done.): Damn. Yo'rr right! Let's go to White Castle. (They embrace) ... and scene! Quote To be the Man, you've got to beat the Man. - Ric Flair Everybody knows I'm known for dropping science.
RoyalOrleans Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Number of persons executed in the United States, 1930-2004 Year Executions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1966 1 1967 2 1968 0 1969 0 1970 0 1971 0 1972 0 1973 0 1974 0 1975 0 1976 0 1977 1 1978 0 1979 2 1980 0 Year Homicide rate 1965 5.1 1966 5.6 1967 6.2 1968 6.9 1969 7.3 1970 7.9 1971 8.6 1972 9.0 1973 9.4 1974 9.8 1975 9.6 1976 8.8 1977 8.8 1978 9.0 1979 9.7 1980 10.2 We tried a moratorium on the death penalty once. The result...a dramatic increase in the homicide rate. How do they figure the decimal point and value per year? Are there people murdered on New Year's Eve at the stroke of midnight? Quote To be the Man, you've got to beat the Man. - Ric Flair Everybody knows I'm known for dropping science.
snafu Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 People murder for various reasons. When it comes to crimes such as burglary and other petty crimes the criminal are more appt to not kill the victim if they think they might get the death penalty. Plain and simple. Without the death penalty the criminal has more reasons to murder. So they won Quote "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
hugo Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 I still don't buy the deterrence bit. Here are a few excerpts (and of course A LINK, which you haven't provided, Hugo) http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167#Deaths%20of%20Children%20in%20the%20U.S.:%20New%20Report http://www.religioustolerance.org/execut4.htm Do I think they should abolish the death penalty? No. In some cases, I could care less if it serves as a deterrent or not. The son of a bitch deserves to die. However, I think the policies on crimes eligible for the death penalty need to be fine tuned. There have been too many people exonerated over the last decade to ignore. Is Capital Punishment Morally Required? The Relevance of Life-Life Tradeoffs CASS R. SUNSTEIN University of Chicago Law School ADRIAN VERMEULE University of Chicago Law School -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 2005 U Chicago Law & Econ, Olin Working Paper No. 239; AEI-Brookings Joint Center Working Paper No. 05-06; U of Chicago, Public Law Working Paper No. 85 Abstract: Recent evidence suggests that capital punishment may have a significant deterrent effect, preventing as many eighteen or more murders for each execution. This evidence greatly unsettles moral objections to the death penalty, because it suggests that a refusal to impose that penalty condemns numerous innocent people to death. Capital punishment thus presents a life-life tradeoff, and a serious commitment to the sanctity of human life may well compel, rather than forbid, that form of punishment. Moral objections to the death penalty frequently depend on a distinction between acts and omissions, but that distinction is misleading in this context, because government is a special kind of moral agent. The familiar problems with capital punishment - potential error, irreversibility, arbitrariness, and racial skew - do not argue in favor of abolition, because the world of homicide suffers from those same problems in even more acute form. The widespread failure to appreciate the life-life tradeoffs involved in capital punishment may depend on cognitive processes that fail to treat "statistical lives" with the seriousness that they deserve. Keywords: death penalty, capital punishment, moral theory, political theory, theory of punishment, deterrence, life Working Paper Series -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Suggested Citation Sunstein, Cass R. and Vermeule, Adrian, "Is Capital Punishment Morally Required? The Relevance of Life-Life Tradeoffs" (March 2005). U Chicago Law & Econ, Olin Working Paper No. 239; AEI-Brookings Joint Center Working Paper No. 05-06; U of Chicago, Public Law Working Paper No. 85. http://ssrn.com/abstract=691447 The pro-life position is the pro-death penalty position. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
hugo Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Hugo, dude.....what the hell is with that bias jerk ass study you qouted. Pure comedy. It spoke of convicts reoffending against society. People that are on death row will never be paroled, unless they are innocent of course. Which I already provided statistics on that. 17 exhonerated death row inmates in just the last 4 years. I have yet to hear you address that cold hard fact. 17 lives that were not only wrongly known as murderers, but they would have been killed were it not for the efforts of those who fight the overzealous justice system. Exhonerated ....means the systems checks and balances worked. Kenneth McDuff was freed from death row, he was not innocent. He killed several women after being freed and got another death sentence. This time it was carried out. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
Jhony5 Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Exhonerated ....means the systems checks and balances worked. Kenneth McDuff was freed from death row, he was not innocent. He killed several women after being freed and got another death sentence. This time it was carried out. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA......and HA !!! Wow, did you even think about that before you typed it? No one is exhonerated unless outside entities step in and fucking force the truth to come out. Prosecuters don't step in down the road and say "hey I think we made a mistake here, lets review the case". Every time a person is exhonerated from death row it stands as a red flag that the system is flawed beyond reason. What kind of shit-fer-brains proclaimation was that? Also, I have noticed that the only time your posts have any hint of intelligence to them is because your simply qouting articles you googled. Anytime you speak for yourself you sound like an idiot. I have the brains and balls to counter your points, but you can't even try to counter me. Why is that? Maybe you should just stop and crawl away quitely. And by the way, the Houston Texans have about the same win loss record as you do. Quote i am sofa king we todd did.
hugo Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA......and HA !!! Wow, did you even think about that before you typed it? No one is exhonerated unless outside entities step in and fucking force the truth to come out. Prosecuters don't step in down the road and say "hey I think we made a mistake here, lets review the case". Every time a person is exhonerated from death row it stands as a red flag that the system is flawed beyond reason. What kind of shit-fer-brains proclaimation was that? Also, I have noticed that the only time your posts have any hint of intelligence to them is because your simply qouting articles you googled. Anytime you speak for yourself you sound like an idiot. I have the brains and balls to counter your points, but you can't even try to counter me. Why is that? Maybe you should just stop and crawl away quitely. And by the way, the Houston Texans have about the same win loss record as you do. You are a moron incapable of intelligent debate. You simply spout what you have been spoon fed. In our country we have many checks and balances to prevent innocents being executed. This includes the 1st Amendment right of a free press and the allowance of citizens to get involved to right wrongs. I am writing this for the general audience. You are incapable of digesting any information. Of course the idiot tried to change the definition of exonerated. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
angie Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 I see this topic has stopped dead in its tracks. Sounds more like a "my dick is bigger than yours" screaming match now Quote http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.snopes.com http://www.breakthechain.org STOP THE SPAM!! Click Me You Know You Want To
hugo Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 I see this topic has stopped dead in its tracks. Sounds more like a "my dick is bigger than yours" screaming match now Considering a male human has a larger penis than a tree shrew, which I believe, from the intelligence reflected in Jhony's replies, is Jhony's species, I have a bigger dick also. Updated to add: I just received a letter from the UTS (Union of Tree Shrews) demanding an apology. Let me apologize to tree shrews everywhere. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
hugo Posted November 14, 2005 Posted November 14, 2005 Let me give the dictionary version of exonerated. It might help Jhony as this debate continues. exonerated - freed from any question of guilt; "is absolved from all blame"; "was now clear of the charge of cowardice"; "his official honor is vindicated" It has nothing to do with the manner in which a man was exonerated. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
Jhony5 Posted November 14, 2005 Posted November 14, 2005 Considering a male human has a larger penis than a tree shrew, which I believe, from the intelligence reflected in Jhony's replies, is Jhony's species, I have a bigger dick also. Right.....mmmkay. If 17 people have been exonerated in the last 4 years then what does that tell you about the odds of others slipping through the cracks? Think real hard Hugo, think. Common sense dictates that people have been strapped in to the chair and snuffed out all the while knowing they didn't do anything wrong. People that didn't have the money to use the system of checks and balances that you so proudly claim prevents wrongful executions. Your being to stubborn fella. Whats retarded about this whole thing is the fact that I support the need for the death penalty, but your "my government never makes mistakes so lets give them more power to kill" attitude is forcing me to argue as if I oppose the DP. Just spare me your angry retort and answer one question for me. If so many have been exonerated in just the last 4 years then do you think that indicates some may have been wrongly executed??? Yes? No? Maybe? Quote i am sofa king we todd did.
hugo Posted November 14, 2005 Posted November 14, 2005 I have never argued no one has been wrongfully executed. I have argued it must be quite rare when you see no poster boy for innocents executed. Considering evidence of a strong deterrent effect, many thousands of lives have been saved by the DP. Anything done by mankind will have flaws. Thousands die on our highways, I hear little talk of abolishing them. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
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