Why racial profiling HAS to be used.

[cybacaT]

Builder

 

I'll have to call you out on this one.

The amendments to the anti-terror laws passed through the Parliament a week or so ago were needed to arrest the alleged terrorist planners.

The crux of the change was in the wording - there had to be evidence of "a" terrorist attack instead of "the" terrorist attack. ie. previously ASIO etc would need evidence of the target, time, etc - an exact planned attack - before they could charge the suspects.

 

NOW, with these people arrested, they can be charged with planning an attack without need for the specifics. The facts these turkeys had hate videos, hate propoganda, had discussed possible targets, had stockpiled bomb-making chemicals and materials etc, means they 100% deserved to be arrested...without the changes to the law, this wouldn't have happened.

 

The relevant police commissioners spoke in unison - they all said they needed the amendment to make the arrests. Why else would Howard rush through an unpopular amendment so hurriedly?

 

 

Like you, I remain concerned about the new sedition laws - the wording will need to be very careful, or the enforcement responsible, to avoid stifling free speech. I see the problem that Islam poses - unfortunately we've had a couple of people heavily find already for publicly saying that perhaps Islam might be contributing to the terrorist situation (and I thought a defence of slander was if it was a proven fact). Equally though, I don't want people in my community who preach hate and violence to have free air either - teachers of hate who are infecting the minds of future terrorists need to be locked up...(yeah I know - where they can preach to their muslim brothers in prison).

 

The defence lawyer greatly underwhelms me - isn't he the same guy that said there wasn't a shred of evidence of any terrorist planning activity? What credibility does he have now??

 

 

 

For the non-Aussies, here's the series of events:

- A few months ago the homes of some muslims were raided.

- Labor, the Greens and Democrats labelled these actions "over the top", "unnecessary", and a "police state".

- A week and a bit ago the PM proposed urgent change to the anti-terror laws.

- The Parliament is urgently recalled to pass this change.

- Labor ministers, Greens and Democrats senators label the act as "grandstanding", "unnecessary", "playing politics" etc.

- 18 suspects (Islamic youths would you believe? ) are then arrested for terrorist plotting.

- It is found that the change in the law allowed the arrests, and that the earlier raids provided evidence that later led to the arrests.

 

There was a great deal of Egg on face in the opposition ranks as these conspiracy theorists were shamed into accepting that the PM had been right all along. He had been doing his job and looking after the national interest - while ironically all along it had been they who were doing the political grandstanding. Interesting isn't it...and probably not too different from the divide of views on this topic in the US I imagine.

[builder]

I think it's probably safe to say that alot of the reason that police did "stop and question" these three subjects is because they appeared to be Islamic males and they were observed in an area believed to be a likely terrorist target.

I don't think the police would have been so interested in them if it were some blonde haired, blue eyed, Swedish tourists that were in the same area.

Some people would argue against what the police did as "racial profiling". In my opinion it's just good effective police work.

 

 

In my opinion, if racial profiling does not include blonde-haired, blue-eyed people as possible suspects, then it is simply racism with a new PC name.

 

The timing of the arrests was not only staged, but wasteful of police and ASIO resources, in that they were clearly told to wait and watch these suspects, until instructed to make the arrests.

 

Intelligence victories add credibility to the arguments that defend such a pervasive surveillance system. The discovery of missile sites in Cuba in 1962, the capture of the Achille Lauro terrorists in 1995, the discovery of Libyan involvement in the bombing of a Berlin discotheque that killed one American (resulting in the 1996 bombing of Tripoli) and countless other incidents that have been averted (which are now covered by the silence of indoctrination vows and top-secret classifications) all point to the need for comprehensive signals intelligence gathering for the national security of the United States.

 

But despite the real threats and dangers to the peace and protection of American citizens at home and abroad, our Constitution is quite explicit in limiting the scope and powers of government. A fundamental foundation of free societies is that when controversies arise over the assumption of power by the state, power never defaults to the government, nor are powers granted without an extraordinary, explicit and compelling public interest. As the late Supreme Court Justice William Brennan pointed out:

 

The concept of military necessity is seductively broad, and has a dangerous plasticity. Because they invariably have the visage of overriding importance, there is always a temptation to invoke security

[cybacaT]

builder

 

What evidence do you have for the whacky conspiracy theory that the Govt timed the arrests???? That's sheer lunacy!

 

The Police told the govt they needed the laws amended. The govt did the bidding of the police. The police then did their job and arrested the suspects.

 

Even Labor admitted the Govt did the entirely appropriate and reponsible thing in amending the law to allow these people to be arrested. The law authorities have all said they needed the amendment to make the arrests.

 

I've only heard 1 person even suggest the govt was involved with the timing of the arrests, and that was a Greens senator (who was rapidly back-pedalling at the time) who smirked in jest as she said words to the effect - "well, I suppose it's not entirely impossible that the govt could have phoned up the police authorities and told them to make the arrests that weekend". Even she wasn't taking this idea seriously...

 

 

Get off the canetoad juice builder - the hallucinations are getting out of hand!!

[builder]

Get off your liberal high horse, Cyba. You recall the ASIO action destroying the computer hard drives of Carmen Lawrence, Andrew Wilke et al, in the cover-up of the findings of Wilke in his book "The Axis of Deceipt"??????

 

Try and find any reference to this destructive action. It's all been wiped.

 

You might choose to live in a dream-world and trust the tidbits fed to you by a gov that is laughing at your acceptance of bullshit.

 

I choose to think for myself, and make up my own mind.

[cybacaT]

builder

 

You recall the ASIO action destroying the computer hard drives of Carmen Lawrence, Andrew Wilke et al, in the cover-up of the findings of Wilke in his book "The Axis of Deceipt"??????

 

Anyone that takes action against Carmen Lawrence is ok by me.

 

 

 

You might choose to live in a dream-world and trust the tidbits fed to you by a gov that is laughing at your acceptance of bullshit.

 

Hey I remain sceptical and cynical, but the key is "healthy" scepticism. Go too far with conspiracy theories and you may require professional help!! This isn't the builder I remember who used to have fairly sensible opinions on most things! What happened? I think you've been hanging too close to JG for too long...

[builder]

Carmen Lawrence is ABC, which makes her a government employee.

 

Andrew Wilke held a gov position that enabled him to accurately write that book.

 

Your point was?

 

As for JG, I haven't heard from him for weeks now.

[Lethalfind]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the only act that was commited by a blonde, non Islamic person, that I have heard called a terrorist attack was when Timothy McViegh blew up the FBI building in Oklahoma City

...

He's dead thanks for the American Federal Government's death penalty

 

ALL the others have been commited by people having the same racial characteristics...

 

Even the idiot American teenager who was found in Iraq playing at being Islamic, who was not of middle eastern descent had dark hair and dark eyes...

[builder]

Holy Sweeping Statement, Batman.

 

Columbine ring any bells?

 

Or the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior by French secret agents? Or the ousting of Doctor Mahommed Mossadegh by the CIA? Or the murder of Marylin Monroe, or President Rooseveldt, or the dead Kennedy's? Or the ascension of Saddam Hussein by the US gov?

 

Or how about.........

[Lethalfind]

Here in the states they don't define what happened at Columbine as a terrorist attack, maybe because it was done by such young people but I do understand what your saying. But then that would make everything a terrorist attack.

I never heard a political reason for what they did at Columbine.

[cybacaT]

Carmen Lawrence is ABC, which makes her a government employee.

 

Ahhh...not THE Carmen Lawrence - some ABC lackey...

 

 

Andrew Wilke held a gov position that enabled him to accurately write that book.

 

As you would know the intelligence community holds a wide range of opinions. By all accounts Wilke's POV was a minority one, esp regarding Iraq where the opinion of the majority of intelligence agencies was that Iraq had WMD. That said, he's entitled to his opinion.

 

Being an EX-member of the intelligence community doesn't exempt you from ASIO action though. He was suspected of stealing confidential information on his resignation.

 

Keep in mind that people wet their panties over the raids on muslims homes many months back. The raids were described as fruitless and futile - an invasion of privacy. Now we see months down the track these raids provided evidence needed for the arrest of suspected terrorists planning to blow Aussies like you and I up.

 

 

As for JG, I haven't heard from him for weeks now.

He's been busy manning his speed camera and stealing cash from innocent motorists...

[Lethalfind]

terrorist - a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorist

 

Under this definition, Columbine and other angst ridden teenage episodes don't fall under a terrorist attack.

McVey in OK does. He was mad about how the government treated the wackos at Waco.