A perfect world without religion

[Jhony5]

without the catholic church, THERE WOULD BE NO SCIENCE.

 

How utterly narrowminded. If this is what you paid to learn in college, then you need to find your receipt.

It is true that to a point the catholic church supported scientific research, unless it would go against the written word of god. Just the mention of a round planet was seen as spitting in the face of the church. To this very day religion battles with scientific fact. Many Xtians/catholics still reject the idea that the word is millions of years old. To this day many still combat, using politics, the fact that evolution takes place in nature.

 

My issue with what your claiming is that your giving all the credit to the church itself, and not the scientists, many of whom lived in a time when religious beliefs were mandatory. If you did not claim the religion of your respective ruler, then you were a heratic.

 

The OP of this thread was to use your imagination and depict how society would evolve in the complete abscense of religious belief. That means you have to forget everything that was accomplished by the church and test it to understand if mankind could have brought structure to their society. I maintain that without the mythology and fairytale beliefs that were forced onto the populas by church mandate, mankind would have relied upon fact alone to advance science. Humans have a lust for knowledge and I don't attribute that, as you do, soley to the churchs teachings. During the same time period of 16th and 17th century, your beloved church was throughout the world burning witches at the stake and participating in barbaric acts of zealous persecution of free thinking. Thinking outside the box is how science advances, and thinking outside the box during this time was punishable by death.

[papabryant]

How utterly narrowminded. If this is what you paid to learn in college, then you need to find your receipt.

This is just plain silly of you.

 

It is true that to a point the catholic church supported scientific research, unless it would go against the written word of god. Just the mention of a round planet was seen as spitting in the face of the church.

This is also just plain silly, and not supported by the facts. All educated persons of Columbus

[Jhony5]

You be makin me lookin dumb. I be not want argue anymore cuz you are cheater with large brain make mine hurt.

[papabryant]

You be makin me lookin dumb. I be not want argue anymore cuz you are cheater with large brain make mine hurt.

 

LOL!!!!!!!!

[builder]

You be makin me lookin dumb. I be not want argue anymore cuz you are cheater with large brain make mine hurt.

 

You dirty fuckin' turncoat. Take your google monster in hand, and jiggle it up and down. You can't go wrong.

[hugo]

The world would probably also be better off without sex. We would never have heard Brittney Spears sing. If you can call that singing. The human animal, like all other animals, competes for resources. With or without religion conflict is inevitable.

[italiano_Pride]

As mushc as I hate religion I believe that there are certain people whom it can be good for. Some people need structure & something to stand on, if you will, to keep them from going crazy but the matter is more how long do you need religion for rather than the world dosen't need it at all.

[Hamza123]

without the Catholic Church, THERE WOULD BE NO SCIENCE!

 

Hmm... Well, Ken kinda answered that one for me. But I bet you don't know where Chemistry was created? Notice the word Al-Chemy.

 

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/islam.html

 

When the Muslim State ruled Asia Minor, the Syrian scholars were patronized by the

Caliphs, were employed in influential positions as physicians, as tronomers,

mathematicians, engineers, etc., and the Syrian manuscripts of Greek and Alexandrian

authors were translated into Arabian. The early Muslim culture was more hospitable to

these ancient sciences and philosophies than the early Christian, and thus Arabians

became in medieval times the best trained scholars in mathematics astronomy, medicine

and chemistry. As the wave of Muslim culture in the seventh and eighth centuries

swept over Egypt and Morocco to Spain, Spain became the seat of a high degree of Muslim

culture which endured until the final expulsion of the Moors in 1492 put an end to the

Muslim rule in Western Europe. From Spain, however, the classical culture preserved by

Syrian scholars and by them transmitted to Arab scholars, found its way to Europe, and

Arabian mathematicians, physicians, alchemists, were held in high esteem as scientific

experts. Arabian translations, elaborations and commentaries from ancient Greek and Greek-Egyptian authors received from Syrian versions and finally translated into Latin in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, became the great authorities in natural science. So completely had the original Greek writings disappeared from sight in the middle ages of Europe that later centuries quite generally assumed that the Arabians were originators of very much that they had acquired and transmitted from original Greek and Alexandrian writers through Syrian and Arabic translations. Particularly was that true in the field of chemical knowledge, though modern research has made it clearer that the additions in that domain to the knowledge possessed by Alexandrian writers of the third and fourth centuries is of very subordinate significance. In the history of chemical science in Europe, Arabian influence is of importance because it 1was through this channel that interest in the science was again introduced to Latinized

Europe.

[WHATEVER]

I think the world today definately needs religion -otherwise there will be an increased amount of athiests, heathens, devil worshipers and the like and obviously more hate and increased number of sick phsycotic freaks and so on...but it is obvious that this is what 'they' are trying to achieve whilst they're taking out religion in schools and televsion and promoting the wrong things and allowing gay rights,marriages,adoption and all the rest of the total mayhem...sad times..

[RoyalOrleans]

I think the world today definately needs religion -otherwise there will be an increased amount of athiests, heathens, devil worshipers and the like and obviously more hate and increased number of sick phsycotic freaks and so on...

 

Are you dull or something?

 

Atheists can not exist without religion. Heathens won't exist as religious beliefs dictates. Devil worshipping is consider by many a religion and the devil, himself can not exist without his polar opposite.

 

Hate is an innate human trait, whether religion is in the world or not. Sick, psychotic freaks will always be sick, psychotic freaks. So on and so on.... yadda yadda.

 

'they'

 

"They" do some evil shit, huh?

 

taking out religion in schools

 

Until all schools become privatized, religious tolerance should be taught. In respect to divination and the latter, more reasonable, evolution theories.

 

televsion

 

You Jesus-freaks have TBN to turn to. Ohh.. and the syndicated 700 Club. You can watch them assholes all you want.

 

I have Sportscenter.

 

promoting the wrong things

 

Could you be a little more vague? If the wrong things include drinking, fornicating, smoking, shitting, pissing, eating... etc etc... "they" are only sensationalizing basic human functions and needs.

 

allowing gay rights,marriages,adoption and all the rest of the total mayhem

 

How can two men or women getting married possibly hurt you? What two consenting adults do behind closed doors, is their own business.

 

Yeah... adoption by Gays or Straight parents is sooooooooo wrong! Children should not be given a happy, loving family. Fuck the children. Please note: Sarcasm.

 

Total mayhem?

 

sad times

 

For who? You? In your little world, maybe. Not here. I enjoy being alive and I do it everyday without the thought of God. Life is happier, simpler when you answer to no one.

[papabryant]

Hmm... Well, Ken kinda answered that one for me. But I bet you don't know where Chemistry was created? Notice the word Al-Chemy.

 

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/islam.html

 

No, alchemy dates much earlier than that; it dates to ancient Egypt, where the first alchemists developed it as a combination of chemistry and metallurgy. Egyptians alchemists used their art to make alloys, dyes, perfumes and cosmetic jewelry, and to embalm the dead.

 

The Arabs gave us the term 'alchemy', from the Arabic term 'alchimia', which loosely translated means 'the Egyptian art'.

 

When the Muslim State ruled Asia Minor, the Syrian scholars were patronized by the

Caliphs, were employed in influential positions as physicians, as tronomers,

mathematicians, engineers, etc., and the Syrian manuscripts of Greek and Alexandrian

authors were translated into Arabian. The early Muslim culture was more hospitable to

these ancient sciences and philosophies than the early Christian, and thus Arabians

became in medieval times the best trained scholars in mathematics astronomy, medicine

and chemistry. As the wave of Muslim culture in the seventh and eighth centuries

swept over Egypt and Morocco to Spain, Spain became the seat of a high degree of Muslim

culture which endured until the final expulsion of the Moors in 1492 put an end to the

Muslim rule in Western Europe. From Spain, however, the classical culture preserved by

Syrian scholars and by them transmitted to Arab scholars, found its way to Europe, and

Arabian mathematicians, physicians, alchemists, were held in high esteem as scientific

experts. Arabian translations, elaborations and commentaries from ancient Greek and Greek-Egyptian authors received from Syrian versions and finally translated into Latin in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, became the great authorities in natural science. So completely had the original Greek writings disappeared from sight in the middle ages of Europe that later centuries quite generally assumed that the Arabians were originators of very much that they had acquired and transmitted from original Greek and Alexandrian writers through Syrian and Arabic translations. Particularly was that true in the field of chemical knowledge, though modern research has made it clearer that the additions in that domain to the knowledge possessed by Alexandrian writers of the third and fourth centuries is of very subordinate significance. In the history of chemical science in Europe, Arabian influence is of importance because it 1was through this channel that interest in the science was again introduced to Latinized

Europe.

 

What this document glosses over is the Syrian Scholars (as I highlighted above) were Christian Monks. The Arabs certainly ran with the knowledge they pilfered from Coptic monistaries, and what they did with that knowledge was remarkable, but make no mistake - the Christians in Egypt were already preserving the writings of the Greeks and Romans before the Arabs got there.

[WHATEVER]

 

Total mayhem?

 

 

 

For who? You? In your little world, maybe. Not here. I enjoy being alive and I do it everyday without the thought of God. Life is happier, simpler when you answer to no one.

 

 

WELL DUH!! You do it without the thought of God! Your just another sad heathen then and as for me personally no- life isnt sad but unlike you I dont just care about myself and I was saying that in general so don't try to be a smart ass. mayhem? maybe not quite but close enough. If you had an ounce of compassion, soul, conscience, brain, ...then maybe just maybe you would understand.

[eisanbt]

WELL DUH!! You do it without the thought of God! Your just another sad heathen then and as for me personally no- life isnt sad but unlike you I dont just care about myself and I was saying that in general so don't try to be a smart ass. mayhem? maybe not quite but close enough. If you had an ounce of compassion, soul, conscience, brain, ...then maybe just maybe you would understand.

 

 

If you honestly think that humanitys good trats wouldn't exist without religion then you'd stop vamping jesus blood and start thinking with a little rationality. Any of the good human characteristics promoted by anyone or anything (religion included) are promoting what is already there.

 

Did/do I go to church? -Nope

 

Do I believe in a god or any other fourm of mysticism? -Nope

 

Do I help the less fortunate, offer them my roof on a rainy night, give what I can, support and participate in programs such as "Food Not Bombs" ? -Yes

 

Is it simpily logically to treat others well, even if your approching the question from a selfish perspective? -Yes.

 

 

And as for your little list of "Divient behaviour" They are for the most part (And Especially ANYTHING bad said about homosexuality) simply the poor, bullshit human characteristics that lead to suffering, bigotry, hunger, war etc...etc...

 

If you want to live a life of peace (ignoring the BS rooting in all religions) and have a enough sense to leave people alone to live peacful lives as well then fine. But if you ever feel the need to 'enlighten' somebody or try to advocate religious legislation then let me be the first to personally hit you in the face with the back of a hammer.

[Crazywumbat]

WELL DUH!! You do it without the thought of God! Your just another sad heathen then and as for me personally no- life isnt sad but unlike you I dont just care about myself and I was saying that in general so don't try to be a smart ass. mayhem? maybe not quite but close enough. If you had an ounce of compassion, soul, conscience, brain, ...then maybe just maybe you would understand.

 

You claim to be compassionate person and "you don't care just about yourself" but you seemed to have to problem trampsing all over the opinions and beliefs of anyone who does not agree with you. As for someone who's critisizing others of their lack of "brain"...well, perhaps you'd like to amend your damn near countless gramatical errors before you make any such claim.

 

You claim us Athiests and our ilk are destroying the world, well would you mind explaining to us then why the level of suffering and destruction increases proportionately with the level of religious fanatacism of the person(s) in charge? Regardless of relgious affiliation, history has proven again and again that when the extremely religious are in power things rarely improve, indeed they often take steps backwards.

 

With a "compassionate", "self-less", and "intelligent" person such as you on his side, what harm could us "sad heathens" possibly do to your "god".

[Silmaril39]

Much better off. All religion does is take small arguments and focus them into large ones.

 

Does anyone rember the Simpsons episdoe where Marge asks Lionel Hutz to envision a world without lawyers?

 

He sees everyone on earth holding hands and dancing together with flowers in a hippy fantasy. Ask a religious man the same thing and I think something similar would be produced.

[WHATEVER]

If you honestly think that humanitys good trats wouldn't exist without religion then you'd stop vamping jesus blood and start thinking with a little rationality. Any of the good human characteristics promoted by anyone or anything (religion included) are promoting what is already there.

WTF - What I'm saying is that religion is needed to keep faiths -duh! And you quoted the wrong comment.

 

 

let me be the first to personally hit you in the face with the back of a hammer.

 

Typical....btw - your virtual hammer didn't do much damage

[WHATEVER]

You claim to be compassionate person and "you don't care just about yourself" but you seemed to have to problem trampsing all over the opinions and beliefs of anyone who does not agree with you. As for someone who's critisizing others of their lack of "brain"...well, perhaps you'd like to amend your damn near countless gramatical errors before you make any such claim.

 

Argghh!! Damn - your more offended then he was and I'm not even talkin to you...strange...Anyway - first of all I never said that I was compassionate so don't add things that weren't there to begin with to try and make your self feel better. I'm not tramping his beliefs either - did I tell him to stop being athiest? -NO! He can believe or not believe anything he wants I'm not his mother for fux sake. And as for gramatical errors - what are you, a nerd?...Well I suppose that goes without saying - but my point is that I as well as many other ppl on this website don't give two shytes about grammar -my grammar is perfectly fine when it needs to be -It's readable...but if that makes you feel better go ahead and hate it. - I see countless, stupid errors on this website but do I go around saying "boo hoo look at your errors" -NO - get it together.

 

 

With a "compassionate", "self-less", and "intelligent" person such as you on his side, what harm could us "sad heathens" possibly do to your "god".

 

You couldn't do anything to God obviously -have you looked in the mirror l8ly-but to other people you could. And learn this Mr. "I think I know it all" - When I'm talking to 'RoyalOrleans', I'm talking to 'RoyalOrleans' not you..nice to see you so uptight though.

[Jhony5]

Much better off. All religion does is take small arguments and focus them into large ones.

 

Does anyone rember the Simpsons episdoe where Marge asks Lionel Hutz to envision a world without lawyers?

 

He sees everyone on earth holding hands and dancing together with flowers in a hippy fantasy. Ask a religious man the same thing and I think something similar would be produced.

 

 

As silly of a reference that this is, i'd have to agree. Tha main effect that religion has on society is seperation. It doesn't bring peace. Review your history if thats what you think. Religion puts unrealistic ideas in ones head and begats a problem with suffering an entire culture under the ancient ways of man. Catholosism in Africa. Africans are amoungst the hungeriest and poorest nations in the world, due largely to the lack of contraception handed them by their old world religion. 80% of the worlds cases of AIDS are from catholic Africa.

 

Now the world is being assaulted by Islamic fundamentalist. As long as mankind turns to the sky for guidance, then thats exactly what you will get. Guidance from oxygen particles, carbon monoxide, and so forth. Which I would think to the average educated person, seems kinda dumb to ask an invisable man to grant your wishs and give you advice. Im the stuborn type I suppose. I firmly think very few civilized people actualy believe their own religion. Technology and science have replaced the need for religion, as religion was mans way of explaining the unknown. Now with our advancing knowledge of the world we live on, science has provided a logical substitute for religious guess work.

[angie]

Technology and science have replaced the need for religion, as religion was mans way of explaining the unknown. Now with our advancing knowledge of the world we live on, science has provided a logical substitute for religious guess work.

 

Ahh, but Jhony, there will always be those questions that science will probably never be able to answer. Why are we here? What is our purpose? Where do we go when we die? What is the bigger picture in life?

Science will never be able to answer philosophical questions, which is what religion does for many.

[papabryant]

Religion puts unrealistic ideas in ones head and begats a problem with suffering an entire culture under the ancient ways of man. Catholosism in Africa. Africans are amoungst the hungeriest and poorest nations in the world, due largely to the lack of contraception handed them by their old world religion. 80% of the worlds cases of AIDS are from catholic Africa.

 

I'm not picking on you, really Jhony.

 

This does not gibe with the data on conversions. Most of Black Africa rejected Christianity until late in the 20th Century when AIDS became an issue. Christianity was the "White man's" God. And they wanted nothing to do with it or their white oppressors.

 

Most of that part of Africa was either Muslim or animist. Animist shamen's reaction to AIDS was to tell men to sleep with a virgin. Little girls were raped in large numbers, some as young as 10 months old.

 

Catholicism teaches abstinance (so you don't catch the disease in the firstplace) until marriage, and monogamy in marriage (limiting exposure to the disease by limiting partners). The number of AIDS victims among Catholics (and Protestants) is significantly less than the general population. Conversions increased as this fact became known.

 

In addition, Christians took care of those infected, where as traditional regional religions did not (despite Muslim teachings on taking care of the sick), also driving up conversions.

 

Abstinance before and monogamy after marriage works 100% of the time to prevent sexual transmission of AIDS. Condoms fail at least a third of the time. Changing values will stop the AIDS virus much more effectively than thin rubber. In fact, it is already working.

 

Peace.

[Crazywumbat]

Argghh!! Damn - your more offended then he was and I'm not even talkin to you...strange...Anyway - first of all I never said that I was compassionate so don't add things that weren't there to begin with to try and make your self feel better. I'm not tramping his beliefs either - did I tell him to stop being athiest? -NO! He can believe or not believe anything he wants I'm not his mother for fux sake. And as for gramatical errors - what are you, a nerd?...Well I suppose that goes without saying - but my point is that I as well as many other ppl on this website don't give two shytes about grammar -my grammar is perfectly fine when it needs to be -It's readable...but if that makes you feel better go ahead and hate it. - I see countless, stupid errors on this website but do I go around saying "boo hoo look at your errors" -NO - get it together.

 

 

True, you never openly claimed to be compassionate, but you state that "we" are hateful, psychotic, and uncompasionate because we refuse to suscribe to a fairytale, thus implying that you obviously posess all said qualites that we lack because the power of Christ is on your side. So in that way, yes, you did claim to be compassionate. So fine, no, you did not tell anyone to stop being an athiest (like those words would have mattered comming from your mouth), but you did insult athiests on in your last two or three posts which WOULD be considered trampsing over the beliefs of us. Now mind you, it matters not to any of us, I'm only pointing out how very un-"Christian" it is of you to be so openly intolerant. As for my point on grammar, I don't give a shit how elementary your basic writing skills are, I'm just saying that if you want to insult other people for their lack of intelligence, maybe you should form a proper sentence. And if producing a coherent sentence makes me a nerd, then I'm Stephen Hawkins baby.

 

 

 

You couldn't do anything to God obviously -have you looked in the mirror l8ly-but to other people you could. And learn this Mr. "I think I know it all" - When I'm talking to 'RoyalOrleans', I'm talking to 'RoyalOrleans' not you..nice to see you so uptight though.

 

Well your first sentence is just mindless rabble and riddled with so many errors that I won't even bother trying to decipher it. However, if you don't want other people to respond to your posts MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE POSTING IN A PUBLIC DEBATE FORUM...

[RoyalOrleans]

WELL DUH!!

 

I love it when folk start off discussions or conversations with this old saying. I especially love it when it is used without warrant.

 

You do it without the thought of God!

 

Well.... sometimes I do make them scream "Oh God!" or "Jesus Christ!".

 

Your just another sad heathen

 

My "just" is a heathen? If you meant You're just another sad heathen., then I got news for you, missy.

 

I'm not sad about being a heathen. Welcome to my level.

 

life isnt sad but unlike you I dont just care about myself and I was saying that in general so don't try to be a smart ass.

 

You should receive an award for "Longest Run On Sentence". You really should try making sense once in a while.

 

mayhem? maybe not quite but close enough.

 

I was only quoting you.

 

compassion

 

It was compassion that stayed my hand in a lot of situations I've found myself in over the years.

 

soul

 

I do have soul! I love James Brown! That man has enough to spread around!

 

conscience

 

It was having a conscience that has kept me from berating you into a sniveling shadow of your former self.

 

brain

 

How can you assume that I don't have a brain? Is it because I disagree with you?

 

Please allow me to retort.

 

Your pathetic attempt at attacking my intelligence has come to an abrupt halt. You can not formulate opinions without the guidance of others. Your thoughts when manifested upon this thread appear to be the ramblings of a six year old. And if you are a six year old, its way past your bed time.

 

then maybe just maybe you would understand

 

No I understand just find. You're an idiot and will always be an idiot.

[Outlaw2747]

"To the original question..."

 

To be honest with ya, me being an athiest and all, I really couldn't tell you. Religion affects the world in so many ways, in both good and bad (I must admit...) because certain things started from a religious ideology such as marriage. So I would only gwet blown out of the water if I even tried to answer this question I will admit. But I do have a question for WHATEVER...

 

What exactly is wrong with us athiests???

[Jhony5]

I'm not picking on you, really Jhony.

 

This does not gibe with the data on conversions. Most of Black Africa rejected Christianity until late in the 20th Century when AIDS became an issue. Christianity was the "White man's" God. And they wanted nothing to do with it or their white oppressors.

 

Most of that part of Africa was either Muslim or animist. Animist shamen's reaction to AIDS was to tell men to sleep with a virgin. Little girls were raped in large numbers, some as young as 10 months old.

 

Catholicism teaches abstinance (so you don't catch the disease in the firstplace) until marriage, and monogamy in marriage (limiting exposure to the disease by limiting partners). The number of AIDS victims among Catholics (and Protestants) is significantly less than the general population. Conversions increased as this fact became known.

 

In addition, Christians took care of those infected, where as traditional regional religions did not (despite Muslim teachings on taking care of the sick), also driving up conversions.

 

Abstinance before and monogamy after marriage works 100% of the time to prevent sexual transmission of AIDS. Condoms fail at least a third of the time. Changing values will stop the AIDS virus much more effectively than thin rubber. In fact, it is already working.

 

Peace.

 

 

I hear what your saying, however Africans have a wide range of customs and from what i've seen the AIDS epidemic stretchs from the cities of Johanasberg to the more remote areas. Their sexual habits seem to be more monogamus however they seem to marry very young. What you see here is a marraige of Xtianity and African culture. They call themselves catholic but they mix-n-match it with African traditon, what little remains. It is an extrordinaraly violent country (speaking towards South Africa) that is predominately Catholic. You are correct about the rape situation. Johanasberg is the rape capitol of the world. But I would not be so fast to blame the injection of religion for the wild nature of their culture. This is not to sound racist, only factual. Africa has always been a hotbed of disperportionatly violent inter-racial conflict. Ya the Xtian white man stepped in and made things far worse for them. The Xtian missionaries have long moved into the most war torn and desperate areas and in many cases forced the bible upon them. After all, in those days religion was often the power behind government. As you made mention of, many now convert to catholisism as a means of false hope offered by the practice. But they carry on like the human animals they are and the beliefs and catholic traditions (no condoms etc.) has done nothing but hurt them. Look at that region and tell me all the damn years that catholisim has been shoved into their small minds that it has done any good? Its worse then ever. Catholics with machetes in hand and rape on their minds. Sounds like thats working out real good for them.

 

The end of apartite was thought by the narrow minded, that had forgoten the truth about African history, that peace and order would retake the region. However it did not. It got worse fast as the various factions vollied for power and even went as far as to engage in genocide. The faction responsible for the murder of 800,000 Rawandans in less then 2 months was executed by those whom claim the Catholic cross. They did it not on the name of religion, it was their deep seeded cultural power struggle that reigned above the supposed principles of their faith. So that, along with many other endless issues, shows me religion has done nothing but hinder the African peoples progress into a civilized society.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of what you said, with exception to your comment that religion has "changed the values" of the people as a whole. I don't buy that shit, never have, never will. I meet people in America, the land of abundance and opportunity, that call themselves good christians. You know the type, and thier not rare. They go to church every sunday and they wear a gold cross necklace. Then they get caught by their wives fucking the 22 year old woman next door. Then after the divorce their youngest son is traumatized after being tricked into masturbating his preist. Remember, the pillar of the religion is the very vehicle which allows for sin. FORGIVENESS/CONFESSION.

Cheat on your wife, touch your sons wee-wee, all can be forgiven. Its the timeless sales pitch of Xtianity. So what has been accomplished? Money is earned, polictal alliances are made, and the masses of financial contributers to their "cause" are tamed by the knowledge of forgivness and endless existence in the loving arms of god.

 

And yo PAPA.........Don' take this like i'm argueing with ya. Don't want to get ya all stirred up and have ya start whippin' on me with that juicey brain of yours, you smart son of a bitch.

 

The catholic church knows as much as any reasonable person that people are dying because of the churchs ancient ways.

http://Http://allafrica.com/stories/200511141386.html

[papabryant]

Hello!

 

Their sexual habits seem to be more monogamus however they seem to marry very young.

 

I would disagree with you here, at least as far as those of animist/traditional religious faith go. In West Africa, if a single woman found a man attractive she simply went to him in the night. The western taboo on premarital sex did not exist.

 

 

What you see here is a marraige of Xtianity and African culture. They call themselves catholic but they mix-n-match it with African traditon, what little remains.

 

That is the nature of Cathoicism, its universiality and its ability to mesh with existing culture. This is a plus in most cases. MAYBE the jury is out here, but I tend to still think it is a plus.

 

 

It is an extrordinaraly violent country (speaking towards South Africa) that is predominately Catholic. You are correct about the rape situation. Johanasberg is the rape capitol of the world. But I would not be so fast to blame the injection of religion for the wild nature of their culture. This is not to sound racist, only factual. Africa has always been a hotbed of disperportionatly violent inter-racial conflict.

 

True enough, but always based on tribal relations, with religion, politics, and other social issues used as excuses for warring, rather than the actual cause for war.

 

Ya the Xtian white man stepped in and made things far worse for them. The Xtian missionaries have long moved into the most war torn and desperate areas and in many cases forced the bible upon them. After all, in those days religion was often the power behind government.

 

Here I disagree with you entirely. What the history of Europe has shown, with the exception of the period between Constantine's conversion and the Investiture controversy (and possibly earlier than that-given Charlemaign's behavior) it is supposedly Christian governments giving lip service to Christian teachings that has caused the problem.

 

Case in point: Christian missionaries began their work of converting the native peoples of the Americas soon after the beginnings of the European voyages of discovery, both in the north and in the south. The arrival of Columbus heralded the transmission of Spanish culture and therefore of Roman Catholicism into American soil. Within thirty years the Spanish had gained control of central Mexico, and by 1551 had founded a university in Mexico City.

 

European settlement had a devastating impact on the native peoples. Many were killed through disease, war or enforced resettlement. Missionaries were very critical of European dealings with Indians or blacks brought over from Africa to work the new plantations. Critics of colonization were openly opposed to the brutal military conquest of native peoples. For them this meant conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ. For instance, both Bartolom