Speculation is your Friend

[Typhoid Mary]

There is no earthly evidence that you do exist after you die.

 

But then again, there is no earthly evidence that you don't exist after you die.

 

If you were temporarily stripped of all of your biological senses - sight, sound, tatse, touch, hearing, etc - would you experience nothing but your own thoughts and imaginings?

 

Would or wouldn't this be the same as Death?

 

Keep in mind, there is no earthly evidence that you cease to exist when your brain ceases to exist ~ or ~ that you begin to exist when your brain is formed.

 

There is no earthly evidence that you cannot interact with other individuals existing in a likewise state.

 

You could interact with a God in a likewise manner, if God was likewise an individual like you.

 

There is no earthly evidence that this subjective realm and the physical universe are not of the same dimension.

 

One logical conclusion would be that the tangible and the intangible exist together on the same plane, in the same dimension, or as phenonmena of the same universe.

 

Man may indeed create Gods, but there is no earthly evidence that there is no real God that walks amongst us.

 

There is no reason to suggest that this God created everyone and everything in this field.

 

There is no reason to suggest that this God didn't.

 

Perhaps it was a Cooperative effort.

 

Speculation is your Friend.

 

Use it wisely.

 

But most of all ...

 

... use it.

[builder]

I read this on the alt forum. I'm leaning towards Meliorism. The belief that our world can be better, if we all pull together.

 

The current situation of pitting christianity against islam is farcical political playground bully tactics, designed to incite fear and hatred, allowing our leaders to instigate laws that erode our personal freedoms, and undermine our ability to criticise and curtail our governments.

[RoyalOrleans]

Is this one of those Zen riddles?

[eisanbt]

There is no earthly evidence that you do exist after you die.

 

But then again, there is no earthly evidence that you don't exist after you die.

 

 

 

.....Except the simple fact that we are biological computers which function when we're alive and don't when we're dead. Our concise, our emotions, our memories all have a tangable locatation in our brains. When it ceases to function, as a computer, it just becomes a pile of matter for recycling.

 

Sadly you are under the impression that the human 'Mind' exists. This was the assumption of behaviourists and psycho-analysts in an age where they could not examine the physical, chemicle and electrical properities of the human brain. We can now do this.

 

I'll give you the possibility of a being outside our relm of existance creating us is to be considered as a viable unknown right now , as there is scientific fact backing the argument for intelligent design. But intelligent design or not, that design is still based on the rules of chemistry and biology and the fact is 'we' simply cease to exist as a conciseness after death.

[Typhoid Mary]

.....Except the simple fact that we are biological computers which function when we're alive and don't when we're dead. Our concise, our emotions, our memories all have a tangable locatation in our brains. When it ceases to function, as a computer, it just becomes a pile of matter for recycling.

 

Sadly you are under the impression that the human 'Mind' exists. This was the assumption of behaviourists and psycho-analysts in an age where they could not examine the physical, chemicle and electrical properities of the human brain. We can now do this.

 

Perhaps those tangible locations contain ever constantly backed-up replicated data ? Which would present the illusion that to destroy the brain would ultimately destroy " consciousness ".

 

As for your second statement,

 

Virtual Reality poses the prospect of a physical human brain not within a fabricated environment, but with the illusion of it's " consciousness " being housed within the fabricated environment from an insider's perspective.

 

What if consciouness is merely a product of another computer/brain role playing through the biolgical robot that is the human body, while the human computer/brain is used for a) storage of information ~and~ b) translation of subatomic particles ( zeros & ones ) into sensory phenomena like images for the consciouness to experience.

 

The human brain cannot translate what it isn't programmed to translate, therefore " other " physical matter goes undetected by the senses.

 

And being relatively new here, I have no idea how this ended up replicated in The Debate Room.

[phreakwars]

And being relatively new here, I have no idea how this ended up replicated in The Debate Room.

That would be me copying the topic onto GF's forums where we can receive responses from known members and not unknown internet posters.

 

I find the .ALT newsgroups have a purpose, but a collective of people who discuss many topics with each other consistently, always proves to give a more meaningful read.

 

And for another thing, those fucking newsgroup arrows are a pain in the ass and annoy me.

 

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Know what I mean ???

 

Besides.... when were dead... were fucking worm food... end of story..

 

Least, that's what I believe.

 

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[eisanbt]

as of now the only virtual reality possible for humans is through direct stimulation of the already existant systems in ourbrains, and it is far form perfect. If it come to the point where we can transfer biological information into digital coding then it would be no different then transfering information form a disc to a computer.

 

If the mind you speaks of exists outside matter, then how the hell could you intill it within a computer which is itself a object of matter?

[snafu]

Yes Phreak I know what you mean about those arrows. I stay off those just because of that and the color formats.

 

I have always wondered when you die dose your brain stay in the same state as when you died. For example if you die stoned or drunk out mind do you live like that for eternity? Or do you just sober up when you leave your body? I kinda wouldn't mind an eternal buzz but not wasted.

[eisanbt]

Yes Phreak I know what you mean about those arrows. I stay off those just because of that and the color formats.

 

I have always wondered when you die dose your brain stay in the same state as when you died. For example if you die stoned or drunk out mind do you live like that for eternity? Or do you just sober up when you leave your body? I kinda wouldn't mind an eternal buzz but not wasted.

 

Great example for my point snafu. The mere fact the we can alter your concise with chemicals, surgery and the like is yet more proof that its all physical. If there was a "snafu' or a 'phreakwars' then that means they would be eternal regardless of physical change. But what happens if you receive brain damage and become somebody totally different? What if you weren't all right in the first place and we made the Person a more regularly functioning human? Would we say the the 'better' one was the real snafu, or is it the original? Maybe the excuse is that your personality is irrelevant in life and there is something deeper like a 'soul' that stays. Now there sure as hell is nothing supporting that, its pure religious romanticism.

[RoyalOrleans]

I'm much closer to bullshit and hearsay.

[Typhoid Mary]

If the mind you speaks of exists outside matter, then how the hell could you intill it within a computer which is itself a object of matter?

 

Virtual Reality poses the prospect of a physical human brain not within a fabricated environment,but with the illusion of it's " consciousness " being housed within the fabricated environment from an insider's perspective.

 

It wouldn't be.

 

When you look at a monitor attached to a video survellaince camera, it is no different than looking upon something with the human eyes. The monitor may be in the back office of a convenience store, while the camera may be focused on a cash register inside the store. Consciousness would merely be looking into a room or dimension seemingly housing material phenomena or matter, without that consciousness being in that particular room or dimension.

 

Energy of the subatomic realm in particular patterns is translated by our brains in tangible phenomena. Patterns that our brains are not programmed to translate are not sensed, therefore are invisible.

 

Consciouness has to roleplay as a human ( or animal or plant ) in order to experience the tangible, but as it does this, it cannot sense the intangible.

 

Consciousness experiences the intangible, but as it is doing this and not roleplaying, it cannot sense the tangible. " Outside " our physical universe may very well be another physical universe. But it is not really outside, because it exists on the same plane.

 

The tangible and intangible are just different patterns of sub atomic particles.

 

Backtracking a bit, the cashier in the convenience store cannot experience what is going on in the " back office ". Imagine that of shedding one's human role is the same as the act of finding yourself standing before the survellaince monitor in the back office. You still exist on the same plane of energy or particles that is the " entire " store.

 

Imagine shedding your human role once again to find yourself standing at yet another monitor in another building.

 

Theoretically, once our physical universe is replicated through Virtual Reality, we could in the Virtual Universe create Aother Virtual Environment and in that one Yey Another Virtual Environment and so forth - all comprised of the energy or particles of one singular plane.

 

Theoretically, our physical universe is a Yet Another Virtual Universe given birth to by Another Virtual Universe given birth to a Virtual Universe - again all comprised of energy or particle of one singular plane.

[phreakwars]

Interesting, tell me more...

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[Typhoid Mary]

That would be me copying the topic onto GF's forums where we can receive responses from known members and not unknown internet posters.

 

I find the .ALT newsgroups have a purpose, but a collective of people who discuss many topics with each other consistently, always proves to give a more meaningful read.

 

Cool. Thanks for the 411.

 

And for another thing, those fucking newsgroup arrows are a pain in the ass and annoy me.

 

Yes. Hate those fucking arrows indeed.

 

Besides.... when were dead... were fucking worm food... end of story..

 

Least, that's what I believe.

 

And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

The beauty of speculation is that you don't lock yourself into a specific belief system that says alternative beliefs are impossible.

 

The alt.religion forum is severely lacking in speculation from what I've gathered thus far. Christians on one side, Atheists on the other - neither budging and constantly reinforcing to themselves what they believe in to be accurate while the opposition is innaccurate.

 

I'd rather be in the middle away from such fixed positions. Speculation is like a fluid position instead. It doesn't require proving anything or demanding prove of anything else.

[Typhoid Mary]

Interesting, tell me more...

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LOL

 

Of course, that's just me babbling on about possibilities that I am inclined to beleive over other beliefs. Honestly, I could care less what the real deal is.

 

And judging by the multitude of replies I got to this in the alt.religion forum, promoting who's version of the real deal is " the real deal " seems more important there.

[eisanbt]

 

Theoretically, our physical universe is a Yet Another Virtual Universe given birth to by Another Virtual Universe given birth to a Virtual Universe - again all comprised of energy or particle of one singular plane.

 

Again furthuring my point that the 'mind' as it were dosn't exist. When the cones/rods of our eyes are stimulated electrical stimulation occurs in the visual cortex and we reconized the different objects by the light they reflect. (We only see 'visual' light) if we managed to find a way of transfering our concise t compouters (aka: our experience combined with our memories) then it would just be more stimulation from, whatever source, shaping our life. This digital world adds the prospect of immortality as our new 'housing' would not be subject to such quick deterioration (but other forces would pose new dangers).

 

However your earlier statment about the possibility of our mind still existing after its 'shell' (computer or body) is gone still dosn't work. When the computer burns 'you' nolonger work as a sentient being and become no more then a pile of plastics and metal.

 

 

And for reference, its more me debating facts. I'm just a self-proclaimed 'man of reason'

and enjoy cutting through bullshit.

[Typhoid Mary]

Again furthuring my point that the 'mind' as it were dosn't exist. When the cones/rods of our eyes are stimulated electrical stimulation occurs in the visual cortex and we reconized the different objects by the light they reflect. (We only see 'visual' light) if we managed to find a way of transfering our concise t compouters (aka: our experience combined with our memories) then it would just be more stimulation from, whatever source, shaping our life. This digital world adds the prospect of immortality as our new 'housing' would not be subject to such quick deterioration (but other forces would pose new dangers).

 

However your earlier statment about the possibility of our mind still existing after its 'shell' (computer or body) is gone still dosn't work. When the computer burns 'you' nolonger work as a sentient being and become no more then a pile of plastics and metal.

 

 

And for reference, its more me debating facts. I'm just a self-proclaimed 'man of reason'

and enjoy cutting through bullshit.

 

So ... when you play a character in an online game , does your mind cease to exist as you sit in your chair at your computer when you log off? This is a limited version of Virtual Reality in which two individuals share the same consciouness.

 

The limitation is that you are simultaneously aware of the environment that you are in and the environment that you are roleplaying in. You are not fully immersed in the gaming environment because you are also aware of your current surroundings. You can change your focus from one to the other, back and forth.

 

As humans, we can only examine our physical environment from an insider's perspective. From this perspective, it certainly seems that brain functions result in activity that can be labeled as " a mind in process ".

[Lethalfind]

I hope that I can become a earth bound ghost for a little while after I die. I have some scores to settle. I want to push a couple people under a bus or two or maybe just drive them over the edge by moving things around the room in front of them. How sweet would that be?????

It would be way too much fun to hide peoples keys and glasses EVERY single day until they just lost it. IN fact I think someone is doing that too me.

[eisanbt]

So ... when you play a character in an online game , does your mind cease to exist as you sit in your chair at your computer when you log off? This is a limited version of Virtual Reality in which two individuals share the same consciouness.

 

 

Games aren't human experience. We just watch the shit as we would anything else and use our functional logic to control the 'whatever' is on the screen. This is more role playing (or fantisizing) combine with motor skills. Games have nothing to do with alternate forms of concise. Focus dose not take the place of conciseness.

 

But if you're talking about the chacters "life" then it ceases functioning after you shut it off, but unlike the human brain it can be restarted. Our brain matter can't be regenerated as of now (certainly not naturally). Coming back to the digital human thing, the prospect of 'shutting down' would still end your functionabiltiy (or concise) but since computers aren't limited as grey matter the 'restart' option is still viable.

 

However it can be (to some extent) done with biochemicles as well as neuro surgery. Progression is needed before we can full claim control over our fragile brains, but control over them (as we have over a computer, such as file erasing, rebooting, recovery) is certainly not beyond us and will probably be realized within our lifetimes.