GI Guilty in Iraqi's Suffocation - Read the link and then vote...

[fullauto]

The thing many people fail to realize, is that the average hard-working german man in the street, of ANY racial backgroud, had little to fear from the Nazi regime... Even nations that germany occupied feared little from the Nazis and many even supported them!

 

FACTS:

 

The French being occupied by the Nazis in WWII had little fear for thier lives or thier possessions. My Grandmother was in Occupied France during WWII, and 95% of her town was THANKFUL that someone had FINALLY done what they had wanted to do for years... She told me that the racial makeup of those deported was split evenly, Jews, Nordic, Black... It had little to do with race at first... IT WAS SIMPLY A PURGE OF CRIMINALS AND THE FAT AROUND THE MID BELLY OF A SOCIETY THAT HAD TOO MUCH!

 

Just as many Blonde haired, blue eyed criminals and drunks died as a result of the Nazis invading Poland as did the jews! There was NO racial distinction in these purges... CRIMINALS ! ! ! Treason, Rape, Robery etc... many of these where overtaking Europe at exponential rates, and they just got fed the fuck up!

 

Later, after unsuccessfull attempts at deporting jews, they resorted to the unfortunate detail of trying to exterminate them from EUROPE... not the world... The reason jews were singled out more than others is almost completely found in the Bolshevic revolution in 1917... In Germanies state of RAPID DECLINE as a result of the Treaty of Versailles (a result of the Jews promise to enter the US with the Allies in exchange for a jewish homeland in then British occupied Palestine), Germans feared a communist revolution in thier country lead by jews the same way it had happened in the Soviet states in 1917... and read up on how that turned out for the Christians! Read up on the great purges! MANY, many more Christians died as a result of jewish communism than did jews at the hands of the Nazis! But you don't ever hear about that, do you?

 

These people rightfully saw the Nazis as thier savior, and likewise saw hitler as almost a god! Just remember a few things when trying to pass judgement on what happened back then...

 

1. Hitler was elected, and then GIVEN power... he was not a dictator

 

2. What happened over there was a direct result of OUR suffocation of arguably the most intelligent/productive society in the world before WWI.

 

3. The SAME EXACT THING is happening now the the western world as a whole... and we can vote, just as they did!

 

This shit will happen again... most likely here, or maybe England... But it will happen... and this time, knowing how it all turned out in the end, should we take the same path... Make the same mistakes? Should we side with our ideological enemies rather than our own people?

[fullauto]

food for thought...

 

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

http://www.aztlan.net/protocols.htm

http://www.ety.com/berlin/flashpnt.htm

 

and a good link in another thread...

 

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760

[snafu]

You know something, I'm going to make a preemptive strike here...

 

Before any of you try and say that the US is not becomming the Gestapo, perhaps you might want to review the history of HOW the Gestapo came into existence; what it's so called original function was going to be.

 

RIGHT NOW, there is EXACTLY the same type of legislation being considered by the House at the urging of the President; you know that guy from New Haven, Connecticut who thinks he's a Texan - ja, Der Fuhrer...

 

Read!

 

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&dbname=cp109&sid=cp109WvwUu&refer=&r_n=hr333.109&item=&sel=TOC_208072&

 

OK now what’s your point? This is nothing new. Have we always been a Gestapo? There are times were we should have complete control.

Do you think were gonna go on a purge know?

Look out blacks and Jews! Oh wait it's white Chirstians turn.

 

This is totally off the subject of an accident that happened. Yes I think we need to be even more aggressive.

Do you really think that in any time of our history they didn’t have interrogations, secret prisons? Don’t you remember the Communist days? People were whisked away.

 

I will concede that we shouldn’t lower ourselves to there standards.

There dose that make you feel any better?

Still won’t change a thing.

 

The real Gestapo is gonna have a turban on telling you to kiss their asses! And you’ll bow down and do it!

[ToriAllen]

If there is one sure thing about war, it is that war evolves. With that evolution comes changes in techniques, protocol, and even 'rules'. If you do not evolve with it then you will lose, or worse, die. The old style of lining up in rows to be picked off by the enemy evolved into trenches and guerrilla warfare. It was not very gentlemanlike, but it won wars. Isn

[Jhony5]

I would like to know how this compares in any way to the Nazi concentration camps.

 

It doesn't. It's a well known law of internet physics. That at some point during any discussion, someone will make mention of the Nazis.

 

Lets not continue to draw parallels between American efforts in the Middle-East and the upstart of the Nazi war machine. It clouds the issue beyond repair once we start down that road.

[fullauto]

It doesn't. It's a well known law of internet physics. That at some point during any discussion, someone will make mention of the Nazis.

 

Lets not continue to draw parallels between American efforts in the Middle-East and the upstart of the Nazi war machine. It clouds the issue beyond repair once we start down that road.

 

GREAT fucking point... But just one more thing... Why is it anytime someone wants to basically call someone the most evil thing in the world, they always compare it to Hitler or the Nazis.... They killed 6 million, total... and many of them died as a result of starvation and sickness... Whereas The Russian purges killed about 20 million! And who the fuck knows how many in total Pol Pot killed...

 

Let's all start calling evil people evil, and not try to make a point by bringing up things MOST of you have NO EARTHLY CLUE what you are talking about...

 

Railing against Nazis is easy, and does not prove that you are smart or well educated... It just proves that you can repeat shit ad-nauseum that you heard other (most likely smarter) people say...

 

You want to prove you're smart?! try arguing FOR the Nazis! now that's a fucking challenge...

[phreakwars]

Argueing FOR the Nazi's isn't too hard, as a matter of fact, the NAZI movement was actually praised for quite some time, BY THE US, Hitler just took his idealism too far... Can this be compared to Bush and Iraq ?? Yes, I believe it can.

.

.

[fullauto]

Argueing FOR the Nazi's isn't too hard, as a matter of fact, the NAZI movement was actually praised for quite some time, BY THE US, Hitler just took his idealism too far... Can this be compared to Bush and Iraq ?? Yes, I believe it can.

.

.

 

I would LOVE to hear this... How the hell can you compare Bush in Iraq to ANYTHING hitler did for ANY reason...

 

BTW.... not talking about arguing for them then... I'm talking about trying to side with them NOW.... VERY difficult...

[phreakwars]

Easy, like I said, the NAZI movement was actually praised at first (Just like Bush), but "Da Fuhrer " (Much like Bush), let his popularity go to his head, and instructed his men to do unethical deeds in the name of the cause.

 

Hitler couldn't get away with it for too long, because unlike the United States, Germany was a small country, the US sure caught on to Bush, but instead of other nations fighting the US, the bastard has THEM convinced that the US is doing a "GOOD" thing... which is total bullshit to me.

 

The new term for Nazi Facism, should be "LIBERATION" in this, oh so fucking politically correct world we have now.

 

People like SNAFU actually fall for this shit too, and that's just sad.

 

I really don't think you need to try too hard to defend the Nazi movement fullauto... within a few years, their idealism will be intergrated into our culture anyway.

.

.

[fullauto]

Easy, like I said, the NAZI movement was actually praised at first (Just like Bush), but "Da Fuhrer " (Much like Bush), let his popularity go to his head, and instructed his men to do unethical deeds in the name of the cause.

 

Hitler couldn't get away with it for too long, because unlike the United States, Germany was a small country, the US sure caught on to Bush, but instead of other nations fighting the US, the bastard has THEM convinced that the US is doing a "GOOD" thing... which is total bullshit to me.

 

The new term for Nazi Facism, should be "LIBERATION" in this, oh so fucking politically correct world we have now.

 

People like SNAFU actually fall for this shit too, and that's just sad.

 

I really don't think you need to try too hard to defend the Nazi movement fullauto... within a few years, their idealism will be intergrated into our culture anyway.

.

.

 

Bush = Voted in

 

Hitler = 'On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany. Although the National Socialists never captured more than 37 percent of the national vote, and even though they still held a minority of cabinet posts and fewer than 50 percent of the seats in the Reichstag, Hitler and the Nazis set out to to consolidate their power. With Hitler as chancellor, that proved to be a fairly easy task.'

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hitler = Caught trying to rescue White Europeans from certain cultural death through communism... BY Starting world war!

 

Bush = Caught trying to position US for almost certain global war by securing our energy supplies, and sticking the eye of the very ideology that wants to destroy us... WITHOUT STARTING THE INEVITABLE WORLD WAR ! !

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

It is becoming blatently obvious to me that anyone who throws the word Nazi around like its a current problem, simply doesn't understand current problems... Or have a good grasp on history as a whole for that matter...

 

BUSH IS THE LEAST OF OUR PROBLEMS... I WOULD LOVE TO MEET THE SON OF A BITCH THAT TOLD YOU DIFFERENTLY... You find that prick and they are trying to stab you in the back for one reason or another...

[ToriAllen]

Easy, like I said, the NAZI movement was actually praised at first (Just like Bush), but "Da Fuhrer " (Much like Bush), let his popularity go to his head, and instructed his men to do unethical deeds in the name of the cause.

 

Hitler couldn't get away with it for too long, because unlike the United States, Germany was a small country, the US sure caught on to Bush, but instead of other nations fighting the US, the bastard has THEM convinced that the US is doing a "GOOD" thing... which is total bullshit to me.

 

The new term for Nazi Facism, should be "LIBERATION" in this, oh so fucking politically correct world we have now.

 

People like SNAFU actually fall for this shit too, and that's just sad.

 

I really don't think you need to try too hard to defend the Nazi movement fullauto... within a few years, their idealism will be intergrated into our culture anyway.

.

.

Are you trying to stir shit up again or do you actually believe the dribble that is coming out of your brain into the computer? Bush like Hitler? This war is like WWII? Our troops are Nazis?

Hitler was trying to annihilate an entire race of human beings. Not control or manipulate; annihilate. Hitler was trying to conquer Europe, and would not have stopped there. Bush, with congress' approval, has sent troops to invade one country. Hitler’s goal was domination. We are not trying to take over Iraq. The leaders of the countries Hitler invaded were not killing civilians that opposed them. Bush began a war with a country that had been oppressed for a long time; One that posed a threat to the US. Our soldiers are not going around murdering civilians. Actually, most of the population is glad we are there. I don't think Hitler could say the same about the countries he invaded.

 

So far, there were a few questionable pictures taken, and one enemy soldier died during interrogation. I hardly think that can be compared to Nazi concentration camps.

 

In short, anyone comparing a US President to Hitler, and US soldiers to Nazis can go fuck themselves.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Are you trying to stir shit up again or do you actually believe the dribble that is coming out of your brain into the computer? Bush like Hitler? This war is like WWII? Our troops are Nazis?

Hitler was trying to annihilate an entire race of human beings. Not control or manipulate; annihilate. Hitler was trying to conquer Europe, and would not have stopped there. Bush, with congress' approval, has sent troops to invade one country. Hitler’s goal was domination. We are not trying to take over Iraq. The leaders of the countries Hitler invaded were not killing civilians that opposed them. Bush began a war with a country that had been oppressed for a long time; One that posed a threat to the US. Our soldiers are not going around murdering civilians. Actually, most of the population is glad we are there. I don't think Hitler could say the same about the countries he invaded.

 

So far, there were a few questionable pictures taken, and one enemy soldier died during interrogation. I hardly think that can be compared to Nazi concentration camps.

 

In short, anyone comparing a US President to Hitler, and US soldiers to Nazis can go fuck themselves.

 

Tori,

 

You're young, never been in the military, and still quite ignorant of how the US military and political machine works so I can't hold it against you but I want you to consider something...

 

How many people have to be tortured to death or die while in custody of the United States Government in orrder for you to consider it something worht paying attention to? 1, 5, 10, 100, 1,000, 10,000? What's the magic number for you to wake you up and cause you to think?

 

Just try a Google search for "killed or dead in US custody" and the numbers are staggering.; at least to me, and far more than 1.

 

 

Hitler wanted to conquer Europe? Hmm.

 

FACT:

 

According to the Department of Defense publication, "Active Duty Military Personnel Strengths by Regional Area and by Country, the United States has troops in 135 countries.

 

Here is the list:

Afghanistan

Albania

Algeria

Antigua

Argentina

Australia

Austria

Azerbaijan

Bahamas

Bahrain

Bangladesh

Barbados

Belgium

Belize

Bolivia

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Botswana

Brazil

Bulgaria

Burma

Burundi

Cambodia

Cameroon

Canada

Chad

Chile

China

Colombia

Congo

Costa Rica

Cote D’lvoire

Cuba

Cyprus

Czech Republic

Denmark

Djibouti

Dominican Republic

East Timor

Ecuador

Egypt

El Salvador

Eritrea

Estonia

Ethiopia

Fiji Finland

France

Georgia

Germany

Ghana

Greece

Guatemala

Guinea

Haiti

Honduras

Hungary

Iceland

India

Indonesia

Iraq

Ireland

Israel

Italy

Jamaica

Japan

Jordan

Kazakhstan

Kenya

Kuwait

Kyrgyzstan

Laos

Latvia

Lebanon

Liberia

Lithuania

Luxembourg

Macedonia

Madagascar

Malawi

Malaysia

Mali

Malta

Mexico

Mongolia

Morocco

Mozambique

Nepal

Netherlands

New Zealand

Nicaragua

Niger

Nigeria

North Korea

Norway

Oman

Pakistan

Paraguay

Peru

Philippines

Poland

Portugal

Qatar

Romania

Russia

Saudi Arabia

Senegal

Serbia and Montenegro

Sierra Leone

Singapore

Slovenia

Spain

South Africa

South Korea

Sri Lanka

Suriname

Sweden

Switzerland

Syria

Tanzania

Thailand

Togo

Trinidad and Tobago

Tunisia

Turkey

Turkmenistan

Uganda

Ukraine

United Arab Emirates

United Kingdom

Uruguay

Venezuela

Vietnam

Yemen

Zambia

Zimbabwe

 

This means that the United States has troops in 70 percent of the world’s countries.

The average American could probably not locate half of these 135 countries on a map.

 

 

To this list could be added regions like the Indian Ocean territory of Diego Garcia, Gibraltar, and the Atlantic Ocean island of St. Helena, all still controlled by Great Britain, but not considered sovereign countries.

 

Greenland is also home to U.S. troops, but is technically part of Denmark.

 

Troops in two other regions, Kosovo and Hong Kong, might also be included here, but the DOD’s "Personnel Strengths" document includes U.S. troops in Kosovo under Serbia and U.S. troops in Hong Kong under China.

 

Possessions of the United States like Guam, Johnston Atoll, Puerto Rico, the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, and the Virgin Islands are likewise home to U.S. troops. Guam has over 3,200.

 

Hitler would be so proud of us!

 

I am amazed at how people so casually dismiss any comparison of current events to Nazi Germany as being overdramatic or blown out of proportion. Quite to the contrary, they are not. It was this attitude of "it's not really like that" which allowed the Nazis to come to power and form the Fascist state it was in the first place.

 

People who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

 

Don't delude yourself into thinking that the US isn't capable of deteriorating into a Fascist state. All it takes is one step at a time, inconspicuous or at least, defensible plausibility.

 

What happens when a "terrorist" bomb detonates in the Senate killing a majority of Senators and Congressmen? Does the President declare "emergency" powers for himself? Just like Hitler...1...2...3... It's that easy. Don't kid youself.

 

So, did you come up with that number I asked you about in the top of this post? How many step into the darkness must we take before we are lost to it?

[Jhony5]

I don't like where this is going.

 

According to the Department of Defense publication, "Active Duty Military Personnel Strengths by Regional Area and by Country, the United States has troops in 135 countries.

 

We are occupying, what 2 of these countries? Most of the others welcome our presence to protect their own interests, as they trust us enough to allow it.

 

Whats bothering me is many of you seem to be forgetting that bush was elected into power. Near the end of his second term, he will be out of power in a few years. It would take remarkable circumstances for him to retain power. Circumstances that would involve a complete 180 degree turn of Americas entire political system. In short, the American government would first have to overtake........America, for George Bush to assume power in a permanent sense. Hitler had no threat of loosing power to anyone but a foreign body.

 

This is an absurd parallel that is being drawn, between Bush and Hitler, and I think you guys know this.

 

This means that the United States has troops in 70 percent of the world’s countries.

 

How many of these countries were overtaken by America using brutal military force? Subtract that amount from the amount of these countries that were overtaken by a foreign military not more then 60 years ago. Now you have a realistic formula to work with. How many European countries that Hitler took over did he provide food to? How many countries did he starve to death in catastrophic proportions while waging a war of attrition?

 

Certain words and phrases come to mind when trying to compare and contrast Hitler and Bush in regards to military occupation.

 

1) Intent

2) Method of operation

3) Genocide

4) Prisons (death camps) that accept children as captives.

 

Bush has no capacity whatsoever to maintain control of a military operation that desires to "take over the world". Its not even plausible in the least.

 

As well Hitler didn't face the possibility of handing power over to the likes of Hillary Clinton.

[ToriAllen]

Tori,

 

You're young, never been in the military, and still quite ignorant of how the US military and political machine works so I can't hold it against you but I want you to consider something...

 

Don't get self righteous on me you pompous prick. I'm married to a medically retired Army Veteran. My Grandfather is retired Air Force, and my father did his time in the Navy. I am quite aware of the military and political working of the government. The only difference is, my views aren't jaded by my own guilt and self loathing like yours are. You learn to deal with your own experiences and quit projecting them onto every other person in the military.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Damn fools always get so close to the trees they cannot see the forest.

 

I am not trying to say the BUSH per se, is like Hitler.

 

What I am saying is that when one is willing to circumvent the laws, break the laws, murder, spy, torture, imprison without trial and basically become less than human so as to provide oneself a "defense" or "information" or "intelligence", you have started down the path of Fascism or Nazism.

 

This is the comparison and contrast.

 

Do I really think Bush wants to be Der Fuhrer? No. Do I think that his actions are highly similar to those of Adolf Hitler? Absolutely yes.

 

Whenever a leader feels that by virtue of their political office, they are somehow entitled to be above the law and allowed to decide what is and is not legal for themselves instead of the courts deciding, then this is the beginnings of a dictatorship. It's that simple.

 

What started this is all of the idiots here cheering that a US soldier MURDERED and Iraqi General Prisioner of War; Nevermind that we have murdered civilians (which we call insurgents) as well. FUCK!!!

 

What The Fuck!!!

 

Then, some of you defend it with a whole host of BULLSHIT reasons and JUSTIFICATIONS that support COLD BLOODED TORTURE AND MURDER!

 

I thought we were the GOOD GUYS, but it seems we have taken our new rules from the Nazi playbook.

 

I don't ever want to hear one of you mother fuckers ever complaining when a US soldier or civilian gets beheaded, or blown up. They (the insurgents) are just doing what they feel they need to in order to win!

 

WHAT A GODDAMN FUCKED UP PHILOSOPHY YOU ASSWIPES HAVE!

 

FUCK ALL OF YOU!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Don't get self righteous on me you pompous prick. I'm married to a medically retired Army Veteran. My Grandfather is retired Air Force, and my father did his time in the Navy. I am quite aware of the military and political working of the government. The only difference is, my views aren't jaded by my own guilt and self loathing like yours are. You learn to deal with your own experiences and quit projecting them onto every other person in the military.

 

I'm not self righteous but you sure are a dumb shit vicious bitch. I don't give a fuck if you are married to God himself. You're misguided here.

 

There is no justification you can concoct to validate the torture and murder of another human being. None.

 

Self righeteous indignation is your speciality here but then you absolutely need it in full measure to justify TORTURING and MURDERING a prisioner of war.

 

At to my "guilt and self loathing" that's the bigest pile of shit you've tried to yet pass off. What a cunt!

 

Lastly, I noticed that you don't have the fucking balls to answer the question I asked you..

 

How fucking many does it take Tori? How many?

[ToriAllen]

I'm not self righteous but you sure are a dumb shit vicious bitch. I don't give a fuck if you are married to God himself. You're misguided here.

 

There is no justification you can concoct to validate the torture and murder of another human being. None.

 

Self righeteous indignation is your speciality here but then you absolutely need it in full measure to justify TORTURING and MURDERING a prisioner of war.

 

At to my "guilt and self loathing" that's the bigest pile of shit you've tried to yet pass off. What a cunt!

 

Lastly, I noticed that you don't have the fucking balls to answer the question I asked you..

 

How fucking many does it take Tori? How many?

Uh oh. Did I hit a nerve? I am a bitch. It’s about time you figured that one out.

How many what? Enemy soldiers with information that could save lives. There is no set number on that.

It is quite different to torture innocent individuals than the men who conspire against our men. You are the one who is misguided here, not me. You are drawing comparisons that do not exist.

I can think of many instances in which torture and murder are most certainly justified. I would have no qualms about torture and murder of a child abuser or molester who ended up killing the child he/she harmed. I would gladly see to it myself. You can think what you will about me, but sometimes torture is justified. If we can save lives by torturing those who want to take those lives, than so be it.

[fullauto]

Thank GOD you people have finally started saying something... I was beginning to feel like the only person who didn't get the opinion issued to them in the morning news! Nice not to take shit alone!

 

now to the point...

 

Yes, it is feasibly possible for this country to 'deteriorate' (used for continuity and not dogma) into a fascist state. But, if it does make this journey, it would do so out of panic mode, and would be fascist in it's pure form (provided their was no communist interference) meaning that WE would Elect/Appoint a STRONG LEADER to make lightning quick decisions quickly for us without being strangled by red tape, and TRULY the best interest of OUR PEOPLE... And for all intensive purposes, would only last as long as did the perceived threat...

 

This differs from what Hitler had accomplished at the end of 1933 by means that he gained control of the position of Dass Fuhrer (The Leader) by first appealing to a 1/3 minority, and then by turning the Reichstag into his own personal 'rubber-stamp' to vote him emergency powers WITHOUT A TERM... All the while, keeping WHITE/ARYAN interests at the core of his work and not that of the German people as a whole...

 

This would never be tolerated by this country... First off, the minority vote would NEVER get you elected into an office which in itself is 1/3 (Executive) of the government, meaning that at least 1/2 of the country would have to be for your policies for you to get such a position, which basically says you would be working on behalf of the people's concerns as a whole, and not just white racialists...

 

Secondly, Even after being slapped in the face by Islamic Jihad, and getting 'cooperation' from the other branches, Bush's emergency powers are constantly put on the judicial butcher-block and scrutinized from top to bottom as to whether these policies are absolutely needed... And when they are not, They ARE SUSPENDED by one or more checks and balances!

 

Thirdly, Presidential terms are limited to 2, and if you don't like him after 1, we can vote him out... WE DIDN'T!

 

Just because you were on the losing side of that election doesn't mean that he's a fucking dictator... I didn't vote for him either, BUT HE'S STILL MY FUCKING PRESIDENT! and as long as 50% or more of the nation agrees to keep him in power, he will be our president!

 

I don't like being in the minority vote anymore than you do, but the fundamental difference is that once the vote is cast, I fall in line with my countrymen, and not do everything to sabotage our leaders...

 

If this same situation had cropped up in 1935, this country would vote their leader, and then adopt and accept them as their own, regardless of what party he was from... Our military would not be a 'thin green line' because back then, if your country needs you, you go... Get it... a solid front for the enemy to look at as they charged our lines...

 

But this separatist BS over the past 50 years has left OUR OWN PEOPLE with a US vs THEM mentality, and has put a stigma on joining the military in service of your countrymen regardless of your political views...

 

in WWI, the world quaked when we announced our arrival on the allies side! and again in WWII... THE WHOLE WORLD trembled at our resolve and dedication... Now, third rate Islamic dictators find it amusing when we declare war on them because they know our people will never stand together and fight, and as a result will be half cocked fighting, and be forced to pull out prematurely to satisfy our disenting half...

 

THE WORLD IS LAUGHING AT US! And it's liberal fags like this that cause it...

[ToriAllen]

Webster

[Jhony5]

So that I'm not misunderstood, I am no supporter of Bush or this war. I feel embarrassed as an American to be involved in this misguided bullshit of an excuse to go to war. How can I say such a thing? Because honestly, in 10-20 years do any of you actually think that Iraq will be a stable and sovereign democratic nation? Fuck no it won't. Bush knows this as well as any idiot whom might bother to care to pay attention.

 

There is no justification you can concoct to validate the torture and murder of another human being. None.

 

There sure isn't. And from a microcosmic viewpoint, it is equatable to any instance of human rights violations. Due to the actions of the Bush administration he is deserving of the raw comparisons to history's monsters.

 

Whenever a leader feels that by virtue of their political office, they are somehow entitled to be above the law and allowed to decide what is and is not legal for themselves instead of the courts deciding, then this is the beginnings of a dictatorship. It's that simple.

 

I understand fully what your saying here. However, how many of histories ACTUAL dictators were binded to a limit of (2) consecutive terms of no more then 4 years? As much power as some wish to claim that Bush, personally, has achieved. He will have no power in two years. ZERO. Not a threat.

[fullauto]

What laws did bush break? besides the awfully grey area about 'what is torture?', which we will never come to a concensus on, what laws did he break/circumvent?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What laws did bush break? besides the awfully grey area about 'what is torture?', which we will never come to a concensus on, what laws did he break/circumvent?

 

Simply because the Framers of the US Constitution did not envision a person who would be classified as a "foreign combatent" or "insurgent" (afterall, the Founding Fathers were all insurgents), does not give President Bush the right to have his henchmen secretly kidnapp people, fly them to other countries for interrogation (torture), and also keep other people in jails both foreign and domestic, indefinitely, without notifying anyone of their whereabouts or allowing them access to lawyers and courts.

 

This is a crime. Maybe not specifically spelled out in the criminal code, but it is an affront to the spirit of humanity and the very essence of what is is to be AMERICAN.

 

I was a professional soldier, regardless of what the Queen Bitch may try to imply. I have served my nation for over 20 years, and fought in 3 continents for the USA. I have never pulled the trigger on somebody who I didn't feel was trying to do the same to me first and I have killed more people than you would want to know. Enough said.

 

But by fucking God, I never tortured anyone! I never suffocated somebody, put a sleepingbag over their head and sat on their chest until they died. I never contributed to the secret imprisionment of people and the secret transport of them to foreign prisons for interrogation (fucking torture).

 

Why don't you go to Washington D.C. and go to the office of John McCain and ask him how he feels about torture.

 

After 5 1/2 years of it from the Vietnamese, I think he's a FUCKING EXPERT on it!

 

Guess what, he's against it! What a fucking surprise!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So that I'm not misunderstood, I am no supporter of Bush or this war. I feel embarrassed as an American to be involved in this misguided bullshit of an excuse to go to war. How can I say such a thing? Because honestly, in 10-20 years do any of you actually think that Iraq will be a stable and sovereign democratic nation? Fuck no it won't. Bush knows this as well as any idiot whom might bother to care to pay attention.

 

 

 

There sure isn't. And from a microcosmic viewpoint, it is equatable to any instance of human rights violations. Due to the actions of the Bush administration he is deserving of the raw comparisons to history's monsters.

 

 

 

I understand fully what your saying here. However, how many of histories ACTUAL dictators were binded to a limit of (2) consecutive terms of no more then 4 years? As much power as some wish to claim that Bush, personally, has achieved. He will have no power in two years. ZERO. Not a threat.

 

Once again, too close to the trees to see the forest...

 

Bush is not the issue. I don't give a flying fuck about Bush. Really. Quote me on this. On the man himself, I don't give a flying fuck.

 

What I care about are the actions of the office of the President of the United States.

 

Remember that phrase? The Republicans were SCREAMING it while Clinton was getting his big fucking cock sucked in the Oval Office. What was his crime? Getting his cock sucked in the White House by a secretary? Please.

 

When one President takes unethical and possibly illegal actions while in his term(s), he sets precedence for the next, and the next; each who will take a little more and a little more, until without warning, somebody decides to take it all.

 

Every nation that has ever fallen under a dictatorial rule, never once ever thought it was a possibility until it was too late.

 

Where are our ethics anymore? What makes us Americans different than the rest of the world?

[Jhony5]

Once again, too close to the trees to see the forest...

 

Bush is not the issue. I don't give a flying fuck about Bush. Really. Quote me on this. On the man himself, I don't give a flying fuck.

 

Others have been drawing parallels between Bush and Hitler. I really didn't intend to say that you had done this.

 

What I care about are the actions of the office of the President of the United States.

 

This is what bothers me about the whole "Bush is a Nazi" bullshit. To say so, one is saying that America is partial to Nazism, as we voted him into a second term. I am offended by this personally. I couldn't agree with you more on the above quote. Bush will be gone in two years and it is our responsibility as Americans to not vote republican, as this is the only way to ensure that what was started by Bush, ends with his term.

 

Where are our ethics anymore? What makes us Americans different than the rest of the world?

Great question. Here is your answer.

Every nation that has ever fallen under a dictatorial rule, never once ever thought it was a possibility until it was too late.

 

Because of our strict two party system, a dictatorship is not possible. Never ever will it happen. Not even a chance. Am I being naive? I think not. You seem well versed in American politics, CES. So I think you know it is not possible for one man to assume total power over us all. Can the "office of the president of the United States" do this. No. To many checks and balances. To much bureaucracy.

 

Our ethics, however, are being assaulted by the office of the President. To have American soldiers killing unarmed captives and being allowed to walk, is disgraceful. You made mention of the Guantanamo bay incident involving the humiliation of prisoners. Which I thought was a great fucking point. A harsher punishment for some dumb-ass nudie pictures then for a clear cut case of murder. You made a key observation that surprisingly I had not heard mentioned before. The "fall guy" comment was so obvious, its genius. Dog collars, leashes??? They must have stopped at the local Iraqi pet supply store for that, huh? WTF gives with that? This patriotic bullshit attitude of "Hey, they don't follow the rules, why should we" is horrible. Thats not patriotism, its siding with enemy tactics. Any of you that think the American soldier that did this was under duress and snapped from all the stress of war, leading to an accidental death, are fools. He enjoyed it very much, you bet your sweet ass he did.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Jhony Jhony Jhony....what am I going to do with you?

 

You've been getting wiser by the fucking post! I'm Loving It!

 

 

I don't think a dictatorship is in the immediate future of the USA. Not likely. However, US government corruption is so commonplace nowadays, right up to the office of President, that I see little if any difference in our form of government and that of say 1980's USSR, or Eastern European countries where everybody and everything is corrupt to the core. (Like Kosovo...I was there.)

 

 

You are damn right. That motherfucker got a raging hard-on when he suffocated that Irawi General. He fucking loved it. Sick.

 

I think it is the fate of all civilizations. Given enough time, mankind rises from the dust, walks erect, learns lauguage, art, science, civility, and then, after awhile, abandones all of those things to act like an animal once again. Destiny.

 

I am old and wise enough to realize that I am not going to change the world. I will pass into the annuals of oblivion very soon, and this is okay. What I take with me when I leave this life, is the knowledge that I tried to help my fellow man, and that I did not intentionally inflict torture and pain on another human being. It doesn't make me better, or worse, just content with myself.