Facism anyone?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...McCain/Feingold was the greatest attack on the 1st Amendment since the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. It got the overwhelming support of the left party and enough right support to get by...

 

You need to read some history that does not come from a Godless Commie 101 course.

 

Well, at last, something worth sinking my teeth into...

 

I'm curious as to your comments regarding the McCain/Feingold Act as being an assault on the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution. How so?

 

For those who do not know:

 

http://www.brookings.org/gs/cf/debate/MF_summary.htm

 

"The "Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2001" passed the Senate 59-41 on April 2, 2001. The legislation-known as "McCain-Feingold" after its co-sponsors, Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Russell Feingold (D-WI)-would ban soft money contributions to national parties; increase individual hard money contribution limits; and restrict the ability of corporations (including non-profit corporations) and labor unions to run "electioneering" ads featuring the names and/or likenesses of candidates. It also would redefine regarding what constitutes coordination between candidates and outside groups, require broadcasters to offer candidates the lowest available advertising rates, and permit candidates who face self-financing opponents to raise campaign funds in excess of the current limits."

 

----------------

 

Personally, I find it morally reprehensible and deplorable that it is legal to give ANY money to political parties, political candidates, or political office holders of any kind. To me it is simply an enduring and ever present reminder that our government is just as corrupt as the next one and that anyone and anything in our government, can be had for the right price.

 

Lastly, I find your "Godless Commie" reference hysterical; Especially since I am an agnostic pluralist and find nothing more hypocritical than a "Religious Democratist"; a Republican by any other name.

[smutt butt]

And the only thing keeping the American people from knwoing that Dubya person is a facist is the fact that he keeps using the word freedom. Sad how gullible we've become.

 

At least get off of your momma's titty before solving the worlds problems little boy.

 

It is sad that it will take another muslim terrorist attack to make idiots like you understand.

 

How many americans must be killed by terrorists before you dickheads shut the fuck up about the war on terrorism? What if your mommy had been in the wtc?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Let's play Sing Along Everybody!

 

You know how, join right in!

 

(To the tune of Old McDonald)

 

Old G.W. said they got WMD's, E I E I O

 

So into Iraq then we must go, E I E I O

 

We swore they were here,

and we thought they were there,

here a bomb,

there a bomb,

everywhere a dirty bomb...

 

Old G.W. Found no WMD's, E I E I O

 

Singing makes me feel happy! How about you boys and girls?

 

BUT REMEMBER...

 

The terrorists are everywhere. We must be on the lookout for the terrorists. Anybody could be a terrorist. They want to kill you. They want to destroy our American way of life. The terrorists are evil. They are everywhere. Maybe you are a terrorist. Maybe your mother is a terrorists. Maybe your coworker is a terrorist. You'll never know who is and who is not a terrorist.

 

I think they raised the terrorist alert from YELLOW to ORANGE. OH SHIT, OH SHIT, WE'RE SCREWED. The Terrorists are coming!

 

Um, Isn't this "Alert" based upon information from the same analyst folk who brought you Iraqi WMD's! OH SHIT IS RIGHT!

 

You'll be sorry when the terrorists get you and your family. They won't get me and mine because I'm looking for the terrorists. I'm seeking them out. I've got a house full of guns, and ammo, and grenades, and rocket launchers and machine guns and and and. Terrorists better beware. I'll shoot you on sight. I know what you look like. Turban wearing sand ******s. Damn Terrorists. They are everywhere. See any terrorists today?

 

Remember, kill a baby terrorist before it has a chance to grow up even if you have to go to its country to do it. Jesus will thank you for your continued support!

 

Terrorists. Yes even the word sounds scary. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists.

 

Fear Fear Fear. Aren't you afraid yet? Terrorists. Terrorists! TERRORISTS!!! Come on, be scared.

 

Never mind that your chances of being killed by being struck by lightning are 500 times more likely than being killed by the evil terrorists, we have to be on the lookout for terrorists. We have to find them, kill them, before they kill us and destroy America. If your not for stopping the terrorists, then your not an American.

 

What a complete pile of mass hysteria. Pure shit.

 

HEY Smutt Butt!

 

At least get off of your knees and stop sucking the president's cock before solving the worlds problems little boy!

[smutt butt]

I hope you fukin die by a peaceful muslim you stupid idiot.

 

 

Sep. 11 never happenned right.

[smutt butt]

I'm sorry i shouldn't have said i hope you die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish your fucking kids had been on the airplane while it was being flown into a building.

[hugo]

doh sorry type I meant 1984

 

As to the godless commie 101 quote, bite me

Religion and democracy do not go hand in hand, even though the bible bashes would like the world to think so.

Hitler and Mussolini were good little catholics, so I guess if they repented for there sins they would be on gods right hand now.

Talk about the get out of jail free card, go a killing spreed, butcher who ever you want and if you say you're sorry, all forgiven, what a fucking joke.

Please abuse me again, using your religious bull twod, I like the abuse

 

You're a moron. I am agnostic myself have never quoted the Bible in our debates. Just refuted your loony tunes, space alien, version of history. Hitler was no good little Catholic. You need to check out some quotes of his after he obtained power. Of course you don't find that in Godless Commie 101 readings. Hitler was pretty antagonistic toward religion.

[hugo]

Lastly, I find your "Godless Commie" reference hysterical; Especially since I am an agnostic pluralist and find nothing more hypocritical than a "Religious Democratist"; a Republican by any other name.

 

That comment was directed toward Quarky, not yourself. I don't have time to debate McCain/Feingold extensively right now. It sure did not stop Soros from spending a lot of money. It simply rechanneled the money flow while giving incumbants protection from ads against them during an election period.

 

Let me cut and paste:

 

Supreme Court Case

In its landmark 1976 ruling, Buckley v. Valeo, the Justices affirmed that spending in campaigns is equivalent to speech. They realized that candidates rely on mass media (television and radio) to get their message out to the people. Tampering with monetary resources would prohibit candidates from buying that airtime, thereby limiting their conversation with the voters.

 

The Buckley ruling also permitted unlimited spending by persons or groups that act independently of a candidate. These are groups, such as the NRA, the AFL-CIO, the ACLU and the Chamber of Commerce, that Mr. McCain's bill tries to silence sixty days prior to an election.

 

Buckley is based on a simple principle - the First Amendment -- that says:

 

"Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech ..."

 

The Buckley ruling has been proven to be a major obstacle for the so-called reformers, like Senator McCain. The High Court stated:

 

"These restrictions limit political expression at the core of our electoral process, and of First Amendment freedoms."

 

Regarding independent expenditures by groups, the Justices wrote:

 

"The concept that government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society in order to enhance the relative voice of others is wholly foreign to the First Amendment."

 

The Court used this analogy in the Buckley case:

 

"Being free to engage in unlimited political expression subject to a ceiling on expenditures is like being free to drive an automobile as far and as often as one desires... on a single tank of gas."

 

Harm to Public Debate

Senator McCain and other so-called reformers would actually harm the political process. Under McCain-Feingold, the losers would be the public because fewer voices would be heard. The clear winners would be incumbent politicians, rich candidates and the media.

 

Because of the power and perks of incumbency, cutting off a challenger's speech and that of his allies, would enhance re-election of incumbents.

Rich politicians who self-finance their own campaigns would have no limit placed on them. That means more Ross Perots, Donald Trumps, and other multi-millionaires running for office.

Finally, the media would be the kingmakers. Without the ability to buy commercial time, free media coverage on the news becomes even more important. Do we want Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings picking our representatives?

 

Want to reduce corruption in government? Reduce the scope and size of government and you will reduce corruption.

[fullauto]

BUT REMEMBER...

 

The terrorists are everywhere. We must be on the lookout for the terrorists. Anybody could be a terrorist. They want to kill you. They want to destroy our American way of life. The terrorists are evil. They are everywhere. Maybe you are a terrorist. Maybe your mother is a terrorists. Maybe your coworker is a terrorist. You'll never know who is and who is not a terrorist.

 

I think they raised the terrorist alert from YELLOW to ORANGE. OH SHIT, OH SHIT, WE'RE SCREWED. The Terrorists are coming!

 

Um, Isn't this "Alert" based upon information from the same analyst folk who brought you Iraqi WMD's! OH SHIT IS RIGHT!

 

You'll be sorry when the terrorists get you and your family. They won't get me and mine because I'm looking for the terrorists. I'm seeking them out. I've got a house full of guns, and ammo, and grenades, and rocket launchers and machine guns and and and. Terrorists better beware. I'll shoot you on sight. I know what you look like. Turban wearing sand ******s. Damn Terrorists. They are everywhere. See any terrorists today?

 

Remember, kill a baby terrorist before it has a chance to grow up even if you have to go to its country to do it. Jesus will thank you for your continued support!

 

Terrorists. Yes even the word sounds scary. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists.

 

Fear Fear Fear. Aren't you afraid yet? Terrorists. Terrorists! TERRORISTS!!! Come on, be scared.

 

Never mind that your chances of being killed by being struck by lightning are 500 times more likely than being killed by the evil terrorists, we have to be on the lookout for terrorists. We have to find them, kill them, before they kill us and destroy America. If your not for stopping the terrorists, then your not an American.

 

What a complete pile of mass hysteria. Pure shit.

 

HEY Smutt Butt!

 

At least get off of your knees and stop sucking the president's cock before solving the worlds problems little boy!

 

I can see the FNORDS ! ! !

 

``Very nice,'' I said. ``But why did you bring me up here?'' ``It's time for you to see the fnords,'' he replied. Then I woke up in bed and it was the next morning. I made breakfast in a pretty nasty mood, wondering if I'd seen the fnords, whatever the hell they were, in the hours he had blacked out, or if I would see them as soon as I went out into the street.

 

I had some pretty gruesome ideas about them, I must admit. Creatures with three eyes and tentacles, survivors from Atlantis, who walked among us, invisible due to some form of mind shield, and did hideous work for the Illuminati. It was unnerving to contemplate, and I finally gave in to my fears and peeked out the window, thinking it might be better to see them from a distance first. Nothing. Just ordinary sleepy people, heading for their busses and subways.

 

That calmed me a little, so I set out the toast and coffee and fetched the New York Times from the hallway. I turned the radio to WBAI and caught some good Vivaldi, sat down, grabbed a piece of toast and started skimming the first page. Then I saw the fnords. The feature story involved another of the endless squabbles between Russia and the U.S. in the UN General Assembly, and after each direct quote from the Russian delegate I read a quite distinct ``Fnord!'' The second lead was about a debate in congress on getting the troops out of costa Rica; every argument presented by Senator Bacon was followed by another ``Fnord!'' At the bottom of the page was a Times depth-type study of the growing pollution problem and the increasing use of gas masks among New Yorkers; the most distressing chemical facts were interpolated with more ``Fnords.''

 

Suddenly I saw Hagbard's eyes burning into me and heard his voice: ``Your heart will remain calm. Your adrenalin gland will remain calm. Calm, all-over calm. You will not panic. you will look at the fnord and see the it. You will not evade it or black it out. you will stay calm and face it.'' And further back, way back: my first-grade teacher writing FNORD on the blackboard, while a wheel with a spiral design turned and turned on his desk, turned and turned, and his voice droned on, IF YOU DON'T SEE THE FNORD IT CAN'T EAT YOU, DON'T SEE THE FNORD, DON'T SEE THE FNORD . . .

 

I looked back at the paper and still saw the fnords. This was one step beyond Pavlov, I realized. The first conditioned reflex was to experience the panic reaction (the activation syndrome, it's technically called) whenever encountering the word ``fnord.'' The second conditioned reflex was to black out what happened, including the word itself, and just to feel a general low-grade emergency without knowing why.

 

And the third step, of course, was to attribute this anxiety to the news stories, which were bad enough in themselves anyway. Of course, the essence of control is fear. The fnords produced a whole population walking around in chronic low-grade emergency, tormented by ulcers, dizzy spells, nightmares, heart palpitations and all the other symptoms of too much adrenalin. All my left-wing arrogance and contempt for my countrymen melted, and I felt a genuine pity.

 

No wonder the poor bastards believe anything they're told, walk through pollution and overcrowding without complaining, watch their son hauled off to endless wars and butchered, never protest, never fight back, never show much happiness or eroticism or curiosity or normal human emotion, live with perpetual tunnel vision, walk past a slum without seeing either the human misery it contains or the potential threat it poses to their security . . .

 

Then I got a hunch, and turned quickly to the advertisements. it was as I expected: no fnords. That was part of the gimmick, too: only in consumption, endless consumption, could they escape the amorphous threat of the invisible fnords. I kept thinking about it on my way to the office. If I pointed out a fnord to somebody who hadn't been deconditioned, as Hagbard deconditioned me, what would he or she say? They'd probably read the word before or after it. ``No this word,'' I'd say. And they would again read an adjacent word. But would their panic level rise as the threat came closer to consciousness?

 

I preferred not to try the experiment; it might have ended with a psychotic fugue in the subject. The conditioning, after all, went back to grade school. No wonder we all hate those teachers so much: we have a dim, masked memory of what they've done to us in converting us into good and faithful servants for the Illuminati. - Robert Anton Wilson

[quarky]

You're a moron. I am agnostic myself have never quoted the Bible in our debates. Just refuted your loony tunes, space alien, version of history. Hitler was no good little Catholic. You need to check out some quotes of his after he obtained power. Of course you don't find that in Godless Commie 101 readings. Hitler was pretty antagonistic toward religion.

 

 

To say Hitler was not a catholic is perhaps one of the most misguilded pieces of crap you have said so far, even though Hilter turned his back on christianity in his later years, he was raised as a catholic, his views on anti-Semitism are based in catholic doctrine and were the basis for his views on facism. So I suggest you read up on your history, even though Hitler became what he called a Pagan, the root of his evil was his youth and his up bringing in the church. Even when the nazis took control of rome and the vatican, he had no clear plans to remove the pope from power, why? Because deep in his heart of hearts he was still a catholic.

Also where the fuck do you get off calling me a godless commie, you narrow minded, in breeding, mother fucking corn hick.

[italiano_Pride]

Hitler was also elected in a free democratic election. When you look back at National Geographic before the holocaust the U.S. view of Adolf Hitler was quite favorable. Shows how wrong our judement can be sometimes.

[fullauto]

Hitler was also elected in a free democratic election. When you look back at National Geographic before the holocaust the U.S. view of Adolf Hitler was quite favorable. Shows how wrong our judement can be sometimes.

 

Actually, to be factual, I'm going to set this straight for the record... Not to disagree with you... He was democratically seated, but when we discuss anything Nazi related here, we have to make sure to give ABSOLUTE truth as to not confuse anything...

 

Hitler LOST the election with only a little more than 30% of the vote, but was then handed the second in command by the first in charge to build a majority rule needed in democracy.... Either way, democracy gave him to us, but he was not elected per se....

 

Just a minor detail... but it could fix some arguments ahead of time... I've cought myself saying that he was elected before, and I know I shouldn't...:o

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hitler was also elected in a free democratic election. When you look back at National Geographic before the holocaust the U.S. view of Adolf Hitler was quite favorable. Shows how wrong our judement can be sometimes.

 

Yeah...just look at G.W. Bush. We once thought he was quite favorable as well...

 

Shit, we screwed up again.

[fullauto]

yeah... I thought CES was reasonable at one time too... Man was I wrong!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

yeah... I thought CES was reasonable at one time too... Man was I wrong!

 

Oh, I'm very reasonable. It's just that a few of you misguided individuals cannot stomach it when I prove your ridiculous hyperbole to be blatently untrue or horribly overblown.

 

Hey, I know it hurts you, but you'll get used to it. Truly.

[count zero]

Let's play Sing Along Everybody!

 

You know how, join right in!

 

(To the tune of Old McDonald)

 

Old G.W. said they got WMD's, E I E I O

 

So into Iraq then we must go, E I E I O

 

We swore they were here,

and we thought they were there,

here a bomb,

there a bomb,

everywhere a dirty bomb...

 

Old G.W. Found no WMD's, E I E I O

 

Singing makes me feel happy! How about you boys and girls?

 

BUT REMEMBER...

 

The terrorists are everywhere. We must be on the lookout for the terrorists. Anybody could be a terrorist. They want to kill you. They want to destroy our American way of life. The terrorists are evil. They are everywhere. Maybe you are a terrorist. Maybe your mother is a terrorists. Maybe your coworker is a terrorist. You'll never know who is and who is not a terrorist.

 

I think they raised the terrorist alert from YELLOW to ORANGE. OH SHIT, OH SHIT, WE'RE SCREWED. The Terrorists are coming!

 

Um, Isn't this "Alert" based upon information from the same analyst folk who brought you Iraqi WMD's! OH SHIT IS RIGHT!

 

You'll be sorry when the terrorists get you and your family. They won't get me and mine because I'm looking for the terrorists. I'm seeking them out. I've got a house full of guns, and ammo, and grenades, and rocket launchers and machine guns and and and. Terrorists better beware. I'll shoot you on sight. I know what you look like. Turban wearing sand ******s. Damn Terrorists. They are everywhere. See any terrorists today?

 

Remember, kill a baby terrorist before it has a chance to grow up even if you have to go to its country to do it. Jesus will thank you for your continued support!

 

Terrorists. Yes even the word sounds scary. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists.

 

Fear Fear Fear. Aren't you afraid yet? Terrorists. Terrorists! TERRORISTS!!! Come on, be scared.

 

Never mind that your chances of being killed by being struck by lightning are 500 times more likely than being killed by the evil terrorists, we have to be on the lookout for terrorists. We have to find them, kill them, before they kill us and destroy America. If your not for stopping the terrorists, then your not an American.

 

What a complete pile of mass hysteria. Pure shit.

 

HEY Smutt Butt!

 

At least get off of your knees and stop sucking the president's cock before solving the worlds problems little boy!

That was the funniest thing I have seen all day.

Before you discount this person's ideas, take a look at what they

are calling the Patriot Act II, and take a look at what it does to

our civil liberties. It erases them. I can't wait until this one passes

so I can be put in jail for life for protesting, or stripped of my BORN

RIGHT TO CITIZENSHIP IN THIS FUCKING COUNTRY!

 

Wake up people, they are using 9-11 as an excuse to take over the

world and take over our lives.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...CES has made sweeping assumptions that there is no real threat from terrorism, even though the terrorists have stated frankly and often that the core of their ideology is the destruction of primarily the USA and secondarily the western way of life...

 

Although this is not directed at NazzNegg directly, it is a general comment for your consideration.

 

Let me restate the current "Terrorist" situation in more realistic terms.

 

Let's say that the "Terrorists" could all act uniformly as one organization, even though they cannot and do not. Hell, we can't even identify who is and who is not a terrorist by our definition.

 

Next, lets say that France is going to overthrow the United States. They have guns a plenty, planes, bombs, nuclear bombs, a Navy, a Air Force, troops, all the trappings of a Modern Nation. We're really worried right? Right...

 

Not one person in America could be convinced that we were going to be conquered by France. Not going to happen.

 

However, many folks believe and even regurgitate the complete fabrication that somehow the "Terrorists" are going to destroy America.

 

Right. Wake up! Smell the Coffee!

 

Fuck people. The twin towers on 9/11 was the biggest national tragedy since the Civil War, and in terms of really affecting American and her longevity, it didn't even make a hiccup in the grand scheme of things.

 

As to Iraq being a threat. For 10 years, Saddam, with weapons we gave him, could not even successfully invade and conquer Iran. 10 years of war ending in a stalemate, and he was going to somehow destroy America, which is on the other side of the world?

 

Can't you see how ridiculous this whole propaganda is?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes I do, I agree with you in principle, but If we do nothing, if we sit back and underestimate the aggressors and overestimate ourselves, even if 50 years go by with nothing major happening, are we not being foolish thinking we are untouchable?

 

Come on now. You should know me better than that.

 

I never said to ignore it or become complacent. Quite the contrary. I am the biggest supporter of a strong military machine.

 

One does not build nuclear submarines and Stealth bombers overnight let alone train a combat ready fighting force in 6 weeks.

 

I believe that the drastic closing of military bases in the United States is a huge mistake.

 

I don't need a few of the bases in Spain, Germany, Philippines etc, but I sure did need El Toro, NTS San Diego, Miramar NAS and they are all gone or radically changed now and cannot be replaced on a moments notice. Big mistake.

 

However, just because I am for a strong military, I don't buy into the "Be Afraid" tactics of the current administration and said follower of that flawed reasoning.

 

Like I said, I worry more about being struck by lightning than a Terrorist.

[count zero]

So the real question for all of you is, do you enjoy your way of life? Do you see any larger value in it? Should it continue to exist? Should your children have the same opportunities you have benefited from? You may not agree with your government, you may not agree with its current leaders but as long as there is a real external threat ranging from terrorists to immigration invasions and cultural warfare, it would be a safe bet to deal with the external threats first and then turn inwards and deal with the traitors of our cultural ideals such as privacy and what our culture calls basic human freedoms.

Well the problem with this idealogy is that the external threats are not being dealt with. Our borders are still wide open, and foreign people with questionable allegiances are still being given visas.

It is obvious to me that the whole thing is a ruse. If we were really concerned about terrorists in this country, we would close the borders and throw out anyone with an Islamic background. We would say "Sorry world, but until we feel safe we have to be the un-PC nation." These two things combined would stop terrorism in this country dead in its tracks. Yet instead we invade a soverign nation, most likely creating more terrorists, and definately creating more of an angry sentiment toward us the world over.

The Bush camp has no intention of winning the "war on terror" or terr, whichever it is, just as his father had no intention of winning the war on drugs. It is in their best interests, monitarily, and in terms of power control, to keep us afraid. Who is making the money when fear causes a rise in gas prices?

Again, read the Patriot Act II, otherwise known as the The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003

 

http://www.publicintegrity.org/dtaweb/downloads/Story_01_020703_Doc_1.pdf

 

If that isn't Orwellian, then even Orwell didn't know anything about dystopia.

[Rockhard]

Another thing to remember Friend dubya wants his patriot acts one and two permanant. The spying on american citizens, not terrorists leaves him wide open for impeachment. It is against the law for him to do this or authorize said invasion of privacy without a warrant. For years we were under the threat of the (Red Menace) supposedly wiped out by Ronald Reagan. Most folks know that it died of natural causes. Now we have to find another thing for the masses to fear so they can be kept in line. So we have Terrorist lurking under every bush. The attack on the wtt didn"t strike fear in my heart and mind IT PISSED ME OFF I wanted to find a raghead in the crosshairs and bloody his towel. These terrorists are stupid thank whatever diety you pray to, that they are. If you want to disrupt things in the USA blow all the bridges on the mississippi. There aren't very many of them. Next cut the main telephone cables that connect the Three coasts. I won't panic but I will stay armed and ready.

[count zero]

No no no. Patriot Act II, as in 2, as in you can be put in jail

for life without trial for "Acts of Terrorism" which are loosely

defined as "acts which endanger life". Just read it, and be afraid.

 

Mostly I agree with what you are saying, but I think that securing the

border, no matter what cost, would do a whole hell of a lot more for

our "security" and the war on terror than shipping our troops off to

random middle eastern nation. Imagine the funds spent in reverse.

[snafu]

Come on! A new world order by George Bush!

CES your right we don’t know who the terrorist are. That’s what the Patriot Act is about. Striking the fear of the people? What possible gain would this be for? The Patriot Act is to determine who is the terrorist. We can’t wait for the next attack. That would get those terrorist along with a lot of dead people. I want to know who they are before they attack. The world is getting smaller and what happens to someone in other parts of the world effects us. I want my kids to grow up in a free and stable environment. We didn’t win the war on drugs and we probably won’t win the war on terrorism. But without tools to combat it we will LOSE the war!

Fascism? "What you speak your mind to the ruler of the new order? Bow so that we can cut your tongue out"! Yeah that's better.

[count zero]

Come on! A new world order by George Bush!

CES your right we don

[builder]

You don't see Bush chasing them.

 

You don't see him at all. He's not game to enter the public domain, and hand-picks those who attend his rare "public" appearances, and gets them to sign a fucking waiver saying they won't upset his apple cart.

 

What sort of a fucking prez is that?

 

Oh, and now that he's patched things up with the bin Laden team, at least Halliburton has a competitor in the reconstruction contracts.

[count zero]

OK since no one wants to read the "Patriot Act II" here is a distillation

from the ACLU

Among its most severe problems, the bill

 

Diminishes personal privacy by removing checks on government power, specifically by

 

Making it easier for the government to initiate surveillance and wiretapping of U.S. citizens under the authority of the shadowy, top-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. (Sections 101, 102 and 107)

Permitting the government, under certain circumstances, to bypass the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court altogether and conduct warrantless wiretaps and searches. (Sections 103 and 104)

Sheltering federal agents engaged in illegal surveillance without a court order from criminal prosecution if they are following orders of high Executive Branch officials. (Section 106)

Creating a new category of "domestic security surveillance" that permits electronic eavesdropping of entirely domestic activity under looser standards than are provided for ordinary criminal surveillance under Title III. (Section 122)

Using an overbroad definition of terrorism that could cover some protest tactics such as those used by Operation Rescue or protesters at Vieques Island, Puerto Rico as a new predicate for criminal wiretapping and other electronic surveillance. (Sections 120 and 121)

Providing for general surveillance orders covering multiple functions of high tech devices, and by further expanding pen register and trap and trace authority for intelligence surveillance of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents. (Sections 107 and 124)

Creating a new, separate crime of using encryption technology that could add five years to any sentence for crimes committed with a computer. (Section 404)

Expanding nationwide search warrants so they do not have to meet even the broad definition of terrorism in the USA PATRIOT Act. (Section 125)

Giving the government secret access to credit reports without consent and without judicial process. (Section 126)

Enhancing the government's ability to obtain sensitive information without prior judicial approval by creating administrative subpoenas and providing new penalties for failure to comply with written demands for records. (Sections 128 and 129)

Allowing for the sampling and cataloguing of innocent Americans' genetic information without court order and without consent. (Sections 301-306)

Permitting, without any connection to anti-terrorism efforts, sensitive personal information about U.S. citizens to be shared with local and state law enforcement. (Section 311)

Terminating court-approved limits on police spying, which were initially put in place to prevent McCarthy-style law enforcement persecution based on political or religious affiliation. (Section 312)

Permitting searches, wiretaps and surveillance of United States citizens on behalf of foreign governments - including dictatorships and human rights abusers - in the absence of Senate-approved treaties. (Sections 321-22)

 

Diminishes public accountability by increasing government secrecy; specifically, by

 

Authorizing secret arrests in immigration and other cases, such as material witness warrants, where the detained person is not criminally charged. (Section 201)

Threatening public health by severely restricting access to crucial information about environmental health risks posed by facilities that use dangerous chemicals. (Section 202)

Harming fair trial rights for American citizens and other defendants by limiting defense attorneys from challenging the use of secret evidence in criminal cases. (Section 204)

Gagging grand jury witnesses in terrorism cases to bar them from discussing their testimony with the media or the general public, thus preventing them from defending themselves against rumor-mongering and denying the public information it has a right to receive under the First Amendment. (Section 206)

 

Diminishes corporate accountability under the pretext of fighting terrorism; specifically, by

 

Granting immunity to businesses that provide information to the government in terrorism investigations, even if their actions are taken with disregard for their customers' privacy or other rights and show reckless disregard for the truth. Such immunity could provide an incentive for neighbor to spy on neighbor and pose problems similar to those inherent in Attorney General Ashcroft's "Operation TIPS." (Section 313)

 

Undermines fundamental constitutional rights of Americans under overbroad definitions of "terrorism" and "terrorist organization" or under a terrorism pretext; specifically by

 

Stripping even native-born Americans of all of the rights of United States citizenship if they provide support to unpopular organizations labeled as terrorist by our government, even if they support only the lawful activities of such organizations, allowing them to be indefinitely imprisoned in their own country as undocumented aliens. (Section 501)

Creating 15 new death penalties, including a new death penalty for "terrorism" under a definition which could cover acts of protest such as those used by Operation Rescue or protesters at Vieques Island, Puerto Rico, if death results. (Section 411)

Further criminalizing association - without any intent to commit specific terrorism crimes - by broadening the crime of providing material support to terrorism, even if support is not given to any organization listed as a terrorist organization by the government. (Section 402)

Permitting arrests and extraditions of Americans to any foreign country - including those whose governments do not respect the rule of law or human rights - in the absence of a Senate-approved treaty and without allowing an American judge to consider the extraditing country's legal system or human rights record. (Section 322)

 

Unfairly targets immigrants under the pretext of fighting terrorism; specifically by

 

Undercutting trust between police departments and immigrant communities by opening sensitive visa files to local police for the enforcement of complex immigration laws. (Section 311)

Targeting undocumented workers with extended jail terms for common immigration offenses. (Section 502)

Providing for summary deportations without evidence of crime, criminal intent or terrorism, even of lawful permanent residents, whom the Attorney General says are a threat to national security. (Section 503)

Completely abolishing fair hearings for lawful permanent residents convicted of even minor criminal offenses through a retroactive "expedited removal" procedure, and preventing any court from questioning the government's unlawful actions by explicitly exempting these cases from habeas corpus review. Congress has not exempted any person from habeas corpus -- a protection guaranteed by the Constitution -- since the Civil War. (Section 504)

Allowing the Attorney General to deport an immigrant to any country in the world, even if there is no effective government in such a country. (Section 506)

 

Given the bipartisan controversy that has arisen in the past from DOJ's attempts to weaken basic checks and balances that protect personal privacy and liberty, the DOJ's reluctance to share the draft legislation is perhaps understandable. The DOJ's highly one-sided section-by-section analysis reveals the Administration's strategy is to minimize far-reaching changes in basic powers, as it did in seeking passage of the USA PATRIOT Act, by characterizing them as minor tinkering with statutory language designed to bring government surveillance authorities, detention and deportation powers, and criminal penalties "up to date."

 

This ACLU section-by-section analysis of the text of the legislation, however, reveals that the DOJ's modest descriptions of the powers it is seeking, and the actual scope of the authorities it seeks, are miles apart. The USA PATRIOT Act undercut many of the traditional checks and balances on government power. The new draft legislation threatens to fundamentally alter the constitutional protections that allow us as Americans to be both safe and free. If adopted, the bill would diminish personal privacy by removing important checks on government surveillance authority, reduce the accountability of government to the public by increasing government secrecy, further undermine fundamental constitutional rights of Americans under an already overbroad definition of "terrorism," and seriously erode the right of all persons to due process of law.

 

 

 

WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS ABOUT THIS ATROCITY.

Not as if it will make a difference.

[hugo]

To say Hitler was not a catholic is perhaps one of the most misguilded pieces of crap you have said so far, even though Hilter turned his back on christianity in his later years, he was raised as a catholic, his views on anti-Semitism are based in catholic doctrine and were the basis for his views on facism. So I suggest you read up on your history, even though Hitler became what he called a Pagan, the root of his evil was his youth and his up bringing in the church. Even when the nazis took control of rome and the vatican, he had no clear plans to remove the pope from power, why? Because deep in his heart of hearts he was still a catholic.

Also where the fuck do you get off calling me a godless commie, you narrow minded, in breeding, mother fucking corn hick.

 

Actually, alen conspiracist commie boy, we all know Hitler was indoctrinated into evil by your space aliens who figured a world war would slow the earthlings progress.