How long will we let the oil companies SHAFT us?

[hugo]

I took both Micro and Macro Econ courses. What a joke. Never before in my life had I seen an opinion stated so strongly as fact!

 

The truth about Economics is, that although some observations and calculations may be appropriate and function at a given moment in time, the real magic of Economic theory are the variables; Chaos personified and unpredictable.

 

Truly, I like the definition that learned mathematicians use for Economists...

 

"Glorified Dice-Rolling Soothsayers..."

 

If Economic Theory was foolproof, so would be business.

 

Nice try Hugo. Weak.

 

Whose arguments are weak? First you argue a mere 10 percent profit margin is gross exploitation. Than you argue that Exxon might be understating income when recent history shows corrupt companies tend to overrstate income. Then your blanket statement, based on freshman economics courses, that the science of economics is pure opinion. The weak arguments are yours. The oil business is highly competitive. Gas prices are higher than they should be due to government interference.

 

Try taking some higher level economics courses. You might learn something.

[hugo]

Hugo will pay what ever they charge at the pumps, he is just being argumentative, probably because I over simplified the issue in my previous statement by just saying;

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...Am I talking to children here?

 

No, you just tend to be very condescending and talk to everyone as if they were a child and you were so wise. That's all.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Whose arguments are weak? First you argue a mere 10 percent profit margin is gross exploitation. Than you argue that Exxon might be understating income when recent history shows corrupt companies tend to overrstate income. Then your blanket statement, based on freshman economics courses, that the science of economics is pure opinion. The weak arguments are yours. The oil business is highly competitive. Gas prices are higher than they should be due to government interference.

 

Try taking some higher level economics courses. You might learn something.

 

Are you always a condescending snot when you are so wrong Hugo?

 

Wal-Mart, the company so many here like to call "The Evil Empire", operates on a profit margin of 3.54% and an operating margin of 5.88% total. I know this because I hold stock in this company.

 

Check it out for yourself. It's right here.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=WMT[/url]

 

Exxon Mobil's numbers are profit margin of 10.62% and an operating margin of 17.47% total. I also hold energy stocks including XOM.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=XOM

 

I guess you somehow think companies have much higher profit margins?

 

Hmm...

 

-----------------------

Your claim about recent history showing companies overstating income is incorrect. They tend to severely understate debts and in many cases, with a healthy dose of smoke and mirrors and clear criminal intention, state those debts as assets.

 

Conversely, as long as there has been government taxation, companies as diverse as the corner Speedy Mart to giant corporations do the high wire balancing act of hiding revenues to avoid taxation. This is a fact that the IRS deals with on a daily basis.

 

----------------------

 

As to MRIH claims that Exxon is so ethical. Well, now that they have just finally lost lost $1.975 billion dollar lawsuit to their dealers and have finally agreed to pay up for cheating them, well...you do the math.

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060203/exxon_dealers.html?.v=2

 

-------------------------

 

The crux of my original point is this.

 

The oil companies act as if their prices are set by some divine force outside of their direct control. Although a brilliant smoke screen and outstanding public relations tool, this is a bold faced lie!

 

At a time when America was reeling in debt, hemorrhaging money in a useless war in Iraq, and billions were being thrown into the toilet called New Orleans and Mississippi post Katrina, wages were and are down, unemployment was and is high, the oil companies (and they are not the only ones) took advantage of the situation and the distraction of the American Public in an unprecedented display of avarice.

 

They did what any greedy corporation would do. They shafted us.

 

After all, at a time when they claimed HUGE increases in expenses to them in order to justify the $3.00+/gal prices, (they claimed they weren't making any money off of the catastrophe) in actuality, they were rolling in money because "higher oil prices and fat refining margins outweighed a sharp fall in production." In layman's terms, they GOUGED!

 

----------------

 

Finally,

 

What amazes me more than anything is just how stupid college can make people like you. They take your money, fill your head with some babble, proclaim you smart, and you actually believe it.

[hugo]

Are you always a condescending snot when you are so wrong Hugo?

 

Wal-Mart, the company so many here like to call "The Evil Empire", operates on a profit margin of 3.54% and an operating margin of 5.88% total. I know this because I hold stock in this company.

 

Check it out for yourself. It's right here.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=WMT[/url]

 

Exxon Mobil's numbers are profit margin of 10.62% and an operating margin of 17.47% total. I also hold energy stocks including XOM.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=XOM

 

I guess you somehow think companies have much higher profit margins?

 

Hmm...

 

-----------------------

Your claim about recent history showing companies overstating income is incorrect. They tend to severely understate debts and in many cases, with a healthy dose of smoke and mirrors and clear criminal intention, state those debts as assets.

 

Conversely, as long as there has been government taxation, companies as diverse as the corner Speedy Mart to giant corporations do the high wire balancing act of hiding revenues to avoid taxation. This is a fact that the IRS deals with on a daily basis.

 

----------------------

 

As to MRIH claims that Exxon is so ethical. Well, now that they have just finally lost lost $1.975 billion dollar lawsuit to their dealers and have finally agreed to pay up for cheating them, well...you do the math.

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060203/exxon_dealers.html?.v=2

 

-------------------------

 

The crux of my original point is this.

 

The oil companies act as if their prices are set by some divine force outside of their direct control. Although a brilliant smoke screen and outstanding public relations tool, this is a bold faced lie!

 

At a time when America was reeling in debt, hemorrhaging money in a useless war in Iraq, and billions were being thrown into the toilet called New Orleans and Mississippi post Katrina, wages were and are down, unemployment was and is high, the oil companies (and they are not the only ones) took advantage of the situation and the distraction of the American Public in an unprecedented display of avarice.

 

They did what any greedy corporation would do. They shafted us.

 

After all, at a time when they claimed HUGE increases in expenses to them in order to justify the $3.00+/gal prices, (they claimed they weren't making any money off of the catastrophe) in actuality, they were rolling in money because "higher oil prices and fat refining margins outweighed a sharp fall in production." In layman's terms, they GOUGED!

 

----------------

 

Finally,

 

What amazes me more than anything is just how stupid college can make people like you. They take your money, fill your head with some babble, proclaim you smart, and you actually believe it.

 

OK, let us ignore the fact that Wal-Mart and Exxon are different industries and the profit margin on goods sold varies greatly from industry to industry. Let us ignore that the retail, and particularly the grocery business, has a very low profit margin. ROI is a much better figure to look at when comparing companies in different industries. Ignoring all that we have a mere 7% difference. Let us take CES's statement that prices were $3 bucks a gallon ($2.79 was the most I paid). Now we got 7% times three bucks a gross exploitation of 21 cents a gallon. Gasoline taxes are much higher, the cost of regulation, which has prohibeted new refineries from being built, is much higher. The oil companies charge the market rate, the same as all other companies.

 

Once again, you can see CES's disdain for education showing. Most likely why he falls for the socialist viewpoint on corporations.

[hugo]

And at a certain point we will have space colonies on the Moon and Mars, but until then you will still be using gas in some form and you will be paying what ever they charge you at the pump, and that sir Hugo was my one and only point you seem to have totally missed.

 

Economics 101 applies only in the barest of ways when dealing with the oil industry and the farming industry, as well as the currency industry and the stock market. We don

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...Once again, you can see CES's disdain for education showing. Most likely why he falls for the socialist viewpoint on corporations.

 

LMAO. I don't disdain education, and you make an incorrect assumption about me and a college degree.

 

However, I do disdain pseudo education majors such as Economics, Political Science, or Religion.

 

Furthermore, my point with you is that you simply believe that because you have a college education, you are smart.

 

Whereas, I believe that I am average, yet I maintain the ability to observe, ponder, formulate and think for myself. This is my wisdom. Not the piece of paper(s) hanging on the wall.

 

Lastly, socialist, yes on some items, liberal on others and yet conservative on others. Like I just said...I observe, ponder, formulate and think for myself; I don't allow a political party to dictate to me what I should think.

 

For the record too Hugo, you and I belong to the same political party.

 

I know, it shocks me too.

[hugo]

LMAO. I don't disdain education, and you make an incorrect assumption about me and a college degree.

 

However, I do disdain pseudo education majors such as Economics, Political Science, or Religion.

 

Furthermore, my point with you is that you simply believe that because you have a college education, you are smart.

 

Whereas, I believe that I am average, yet I maintain the ability to observe, ponder, formulate and think for myself. This is my wisdom. Not the piece of paper(s) hanging on the wall.

 

Lastly, socialist, yes on some items, liberal on others and yet conservative on others. Like I just said...I observe, ponder, formulate and think for myself; I don't allow a political party to dictate to me what I should think.

 

For the record too Hugo, you and I belong to the same political party.

 

I know, it shocks me too.

 

Actually, I did not get my degree until I was 31 and I thought I was pretty damn smart before I got that degree. I am quite liberal on social issues, quite conservative on economic ones. I am basically a classical liberal strongly influenced by the writings of Locke, Von Mises, (who I never even studied in college despite having a double major in business and economics), JS Mill, the Federalist Papers (wish our USSC justices would read them) Milton Friedman and even liked a couple of JK Galbraith's ideas. I observe, ponder and think for myself and have come to the same conclusion one of our founding fathers did that the government that governs best governs least. When you find long-term excessive profits, except for in the rare cases of natural monopolies and oligarchies, you find excessive government.

 

While I am an extremist in the defense of liberty it has come from much pondering over what I have learned from inside and outside the classroom.

 

I chose the political party that I agree with on about 80 to 90% of the issues. My beliefs were shaped before I became a Libertarian and I think their open borders idea is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. It might work if we had a libertarian society to start with it won't work in a socialist country with a nation of paupers on our southern border.

 

I suggest people read Milton Friedman's "Free to Choose". If there is one man who I could be accussed of blindly following it would be him.