Guest Ralph Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-0606071209250001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <f468ua$k2g$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <f43nh2$vee$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >>> In article <a829i.22312$KC4.2371@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >>> <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >>>>> That is true. I was wanting to go even further back into the >> >>>>> history of >> >>>>> the solar system than the Big Bang. I want to know how the mass of > energy >> >>>>> (that expanded during the Big Bang) came to be. >> >>>>> If you don't know the answer--just tell me. Several people are >> >>>>> trying >> >>>>> there best to find reasons to avoid answering this question. One >> >>>>> person >> >>>>> was honest enough to say that he did not know the answer. >> >>>>> Jason >> >>>> Uhh...Jason, what is your definition of the solar system? >> >>> source: Webster's Dictionary: >> >>> solar system--the sun together with the group of celestial bodies >> >>> that are >> >>> held together by its attraction and revolve around it; also a similar >> >>> system centered on another star. >> >> Ok, so you can quote a dictionary. Now use that to understand how >> >> meaningless "go even further back into the history of the solar system >> >> than the Big Bang" is. >> >> >> >> The big bang was NOT part of the history of the solar system since the >> >> big bang happened 13 billion years ago (approx) and the solar system >> >> formed 4.5-5 billion years ago (approx.) >> >> >> >> Also, if you knew anything about the big bang, you'd know there was no >> >> "further back" than it since time itself started at the big bang. >> > >> > Do you have evidence that "time started at the big bang"? >> >> Yes. Read a book on cosmology or thermodynamics. >> >> >>> Are you trying to avoid answering my question: the question is >> >>> How did the mass of energy that expanded during the Big Bang come to >> >>> be? >> >> We don't know. But if you claim that it came to be because of god then >> >> "How did god come to be?" >> > >> > I don't know how God came to be. >> >> Then how do you know that god DID come to be? > > I see the evidence when I look at the stars in the sky or visit a state > park. > > I also know it when I see evidence that a person was healed of a terrible > disease or disorder. Here is some evidence for you to consider: > > > THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY > OF WILLIAM A. KENT > Giving all the Praise, Honor and Glory unto the Lord through whom this > testimony is made possible this eleventh day of November 2000. > Edited this 20th day of December to include the following quote from my > Doctor, Dr. Dino Delaportas, MD > > "I rejoice in awe of you and the miracles the Lord has performed." > > > My physician, as evidenced in the enclosed document, has confirmed the > miracles I received from the Lord during a Faith and Victory Service at > the World Harvest Church with Pastor Rod Parsley delivering the Word on > November 5th, 2000. > > On Monday the 13th of May 1985 I was involved in a motorcycle v. train > accident which resulted in a Closed Head Injury (massive traumatic brain > injury), Ruptured Optic Nerve (right eye), and Spinal Injuries. These > injuries left me a quadriplegic (no use of my lower extremities and only > partial use of my right hand with no feeling on my entire right side) > cognitive deficits and short-term memory loss. As you can imagine these > injuries were tremendously life changing. However, being a Born Again > Christian, as well as having been an Emergency Medical Technician for > several years before my accident, I was better situated in overcoming my > injuries and moving forward with my life. > > Although I was confined to a wheelchair I was able to continue through Him > in my education at Salisbury State University, Hagerstown Junior College, > and Prince George's Community College where I was a student in General > Studies and Para-Legal Studies. > > > While attending Salisbury State University in 1987, I became involved in > wheelchair sports and excelled in Shooting. Over the next three years God > blessed me with 39 Gold Medals, 14 Silver, and 3 Bronze and opportunities > to compete in Regional, State, National, International, World > Championships, and the 1988 Paralympics in Seoul, South Korea. During this > time God also blessed me with 19 National and World Records. > > In 1993, while attending Prince George's Community College, I was blessed > in an internship with Judge William D. Missouri the Administrative Judge > of the Circuit Court for Prince George's County (the first such internship > in the Para-Legal program). > > During the time between 1994 - June 2000, I went through a lot of turmoil > in both my personal and professional life and was separated in faith > through choice and ignorance - I thought I knew better without the Lord - > was I ever wrong. This was perhaps the most destructive time in my life. I > attempted suicide twice, lost the love of my life (so I thought), lost a > business, and lots of friends. > > Finally in July 2000, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was stuck > at my Sister-in-Christ's house with a broken down van. During this time I > was lead back to the Lord and magnificent things started happening. I > became so full of the Spirit that I lost control and have completely > surrendered unto Him. I became active in the Church (The Tabernacle Church > of Laurel, MD) and have been working on computers at the church since. > About three weeks before the November 5th service at the World Harvest > Church the Lord moved in me that I needed to be in Columbus, Ohio on > November 5th. I didn't know why. I didn't know anyone in Columbus nor had > I ever heard of Pastor Rod Parsley or the World Harvest Church. Then about > two weeks later I saw in infomercial about a Dept Burning Service at the > World Harvest Church and the fact that the church was located in Columbus, > Ohio. The Lord immediately came over me and led me to call the church > right then to get the information, which ultimately lead to my being there > on November 5th. > > On the evening of Thursday, November 2nd I went to service at the > Tabernacle Church in Laurel, MD and gave testimony that the Lord had > placed it on my heart that I was to go to the World Harvest Church in > Columbus, Ohio and that I was to receive a healing - just what healing I > didn't know as I had several ailments. Pastor Gurley then prayed over me > for a healing that manifested the next morning with the feeling being > restored to my right hand. Later that Thursday evening Pastor Gurley took > an offering in order that my gas be covered to get me to Columbus - > otherwise, without this blessing from God, I would not have been able to > receive the awesome blessing that the Lord has provided. > > Upon arrival at the World Harvest Church I called into the church from the > parking lot, on my cell phone to speak with Ed McKee to see if there was > some type accommodation that I may freshen up after my more than 400 mile > drive. During this conversation I was informed that Ed was not there and > that I had called in on the Prayer Line and the offer was extended for > prayer. I accepted the offer and during this prayer a burning sensation > came over my feet and I knew that the Lord was once again at work in my > body and at that point I declared through Him that I would be healed and > that I would accept His blessing that would enable me to walk. I revealed > this to the prayer partner and asked that she keep an eye out for this > miracle and then come shake my hand afterward so that I may meet her and > thank her for agreeing in this healing. > > During the service at the World Harvest Church on November 5th Pastor > Parsley called all those with diabetes to come forward - and while I was > up there the Pastor named several other afflictions and during this time I > could feel the Lord working on my body and when I went to adjust myself in > my wheelchair one of your ushers asked if I was trying to get out of my > chair - and before I had a chance to respond the Spirit took control and > spoke through me and said "I'm going to jump out of this chair in thirty > seconds" - well guess what? - in thirty seconds I was standing for the > first time in 15 1 Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 In article <1181115641.136917.257000@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 6, 10:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1181089796.976281.55...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 6, 4:00 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <f441ch$9c...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > In article <oppej4-agk....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > > > > <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> [snips] > > > > > > > >> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:54:11 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > > > > > >>> I had one professor that had a Ph.D degree and I had no respect > > for that > > > > > >>> professor. I do respect Dr. Gish. > > > > > >> On what basis? What part of his long and well-documented history > > of lies, > > > > > >> deception and dishonesty do you find worthy of respect? > > > > > > > > It's a long story so I won't bore you. The bottom line that she > > rediculed > > > > > > several other Christians and myself. > > > > > > > What part of "What part of his long and well-documented history of lies, > > > > > deception and dishonesty do you find worthy of respect?" did you seem to > > > > > not comprehend? > > > > > > > I.e. Kelsey wasn't asking why you didn't respect your professor but was, > > > > > instead, asking why DO you respect Dr. Gish? > > > > > > > (And you claim to have a masters degree? In what? Illiteracy?) > > > > > > I respect Dr. Gish because of his accomplishments. I was present when he > > > > debated a science professor from the local state college. In my opinion, > > > > he won that debate. Those are two of the reasons that I respect him. I > > > > debated that same professor in his office the week before he debated Dr. > > > > Gish. He easily won the debate that he had with me. He probably believed > > > > that he could just as easily win the debate with Dr. Gish. However, Dr. > > > > Gish was an experienced debater and easily won the debate. > > > > > How can anyone "win" a debate without presenting any evidence? > > > The main reason he won was because he remained calm while the professor > > from the college lost his temper and started name calling Dr. Gish. People > > in the crowd actually started "booing" the professor when he made a fool > > of himself. I talked to someone that attended a different debate. That > > science professor done his homework. He attended one of Dr. Gish's debates > > and took lots of notes. He was prepared to respond to every point that Dr. > > Gish made and that professor never lost his temper. The person that > > attended that debate claimed that Dr. Gish lost that debate. > > There is still an onus on someone trying to prove a point to actually > provide suporting evidence. You didn't answer my question. > > Martin Martin, If you have attended any debates, you should know that the skills of the debater is even more important than the evidence. The evidence is important but the presentation of the evidence is an even more important issue in relation to a debate. Dr. Gish had evidence but he won the debates mainly because he done a better job presenting his evidence than the unskilled science professors that usually had never before been involved in a debate in front of a crowd of mostly Christians that were clapping for Dr. Gish and never clapping for him. In some cases, they had to cancel debates since the science professor backed out once he realized what he was getting into. Over a thousand people attended the debate that I attended. Most everyone in the crowd were Christians despite the fact that the debate was on a state college campus. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 In article <3DC9i.28166$JQ3.814@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-0606071148520001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1181116070.776867.269890@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 6, 11:13 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > >> > I googled "miracle healings" and found lots of sites. This was my > >> > favorit= > >> e: > >> > > >> > About & Contact this project > >> > en espanol > >> > Search =80 Miracles =80 Prayer =80 Power =80 Science =80 Home > >> > THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY > >> > OF WILLIAM A. KENT > >> > Giving all the Praise, Honor and Glory unto the Lord through whom this > >> > testimony is made possible this eleventh day of November 2000. > >> > Edited this 20th day of December to include the following quote from my > >> > Doctor, Dr. Dino Delaportas, MD > >> > > >> > "I rejoice in awe of you and the miracles the Lord has performed." > >> > >> What "Lord"? God? Jesus? Neither of them ever existed. > >> > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > I would like for you to tell me how that young man was able to walk unless > > God had healed him? His doctor confirmed that he was healed. > > Jason > > Any number of psychosomatic origins? Confusion of the story? Healing of the > body by nature? Any number of reasons, Jason and several sources who could > have been confused. I've forgotten who said this but in observing the > crutches at one healing pool in France, I think, the observer said that he > would believe when he saw a wooden leg in the pile. Do you understand that? Yes, I understand your point. His doctor confirmed that he was once not able to walk but as a result of the healing is now able to walk. There is a story in the Bible about a blind man that Jesus healed. His reply to the critics that questioned him was something like this: "All I know is that I was blind and now I can see." You may claim that the young man had psychosomatic problems but his doctor and the young man could easily provide evidence that would prove that he was not able to walk prior to his healing. Call him or his Doctor Delaportas if you do not believe me. Jason jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 In article <1181153845.786960.195140@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > On Jun 6, 12:09 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY > > OF WILLIAM A. KENT > > Please don't paste the same story more than once, especially if it is > hundreds of lines long. If you want to remind people about something > you posted, refer to your earlier post. > > - Bob T. I tried that several days ago. I failed to save the article related to the withcraft classes at Columbia. Several days later, someone tried to convince me that the classes at Columbia were only about the Salem Witch trials. If I had saved the article, I would have been able to repost it. I saved the The miracle healing testimony so that will not happen again. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 In article <prC9i.28164$JQ3.953@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-0506071933390001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <lkub639s9o4sq1h4n626gtsm5qasut32su@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:00:56 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-0506071300570001@66-52-22-62.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <f441ch$9ch$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >> ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >> > In article <oppej4-agk.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> [snips] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:54:11 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> I had one professor that had a Ph.D degree and I had no respect > > for that > >> >> >>> professor. I do respect Dr. Gish. > >> >> >> On what basis? What part of his long and well-documented history > > of lies, > >> >> >> deception and dishonesty do you find worthy of respect? > >> >> > > >> >> > It's a long story so I won't bore you. The bottom line that she > >> >> > rediculed > >> >> > several other Christians and myself. > >> >> > >> >> What part of "What part of his long and well-documented history of > >> >> lies, > >> >> deception and dishonesty do you find worthy of respect?" did you seem > >> >> to > >> >> not comprehend? > >> >> > >> >> I.e. Kelsey wasn't asking why you didn't respect your professor but > >> >> was, > >> >> instead, asking why DO you respect Dr. Gish? > >> >> > >> >> (And you claim to have a masters degree? In what? Illiteracy?) > >> > > >> >I respect Dr. Gish because of his accomplishments. > >> > >> Claims like this cause me not to respect you because you are so easily > >> gulled, but refuse to admit it. > >> > >> >I was present when he > >> >debated a science professor from the local state college. In my opinion, > >> >he won that debate. > >> > >> You are wrong. Gish may have conned you, but he didn't win a debate. > > > > Unless you attended that same debate that I attended, how would you know. > > > Because he knows Gish. Gish is a liar and a fraud. You can see that here: > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/cre-error.html > > >> >Those are two of the reasons that I respect him. I > >> >debated that same professor in his office the week before he debated Dr. > >> >Gish. He easily won the debate that he had with me. He probably believed > >> >that he could just as easily win the debate with Dr. Gish. However, Dr. > >> >Gish was an experienced debater and easily won the debate. > >> > >> Gish lied. You bought his lies. > > No comment Jason? We are asserting that Bullfrog Gish is a liar. We have > evidence to support that assertion. Yet you still respect him???? Let's say that you lived in a different city than your father lived. You have a great deal of respect for your father. You meet someone that starts to tell you how evil your father is and that he had all sorts of evidence about your father. You would have two options: option 1: Agree agree that man and agree with the evidence. option 2: Continue to have respect for your father and disregard the evidence. I would choose option 2. option 2: Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 In article <1181160963.994366.198380@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bramble <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> wrote: > On 6 jun, 19:44, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1181113564.287146.199...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 6, 7:28 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your post. I typed "Big Bang Problems" and was shocked at the > > > > number of sites related to that subject. I found this information at one > > > > of sites--I welcome your comments: > > > > > Jason, > > > My Ottawa University Astrophysics professor did not believe in the Big > > > Bang. Of course, that was almost twenty years ago. (He did have > > > evidence supporting his argument though: most objects that had been > > > identified as quasars had been found in the direction of the milky > > > way: if they were truly objects outside our galaxy then they should be > > > evenly distributed over the sky. Thus, he argued that quasars didn't > > > exist.) He wasn't a theist, by the way: he believed the universe had > > > NO beginning. People who argue against the big bang are generally > > > arguing that there was no beginning and no need for a creator. > > > > > > Top Ten Problems with the Big Bang > > > > > > Tom Van Flandern, Meta Research > > > > > > A short list of the leading problems faced by the big bang in its struggle > > > > for viability as a theory: > > > > > > 1. Static universe models fit the data better than expanding universe = > > > models. > > > > > Astronomers find an excess of galaxies that are moving away from us > > > over those moving towards us. In a non-expanding universe, you would > > > expect galaxies to be either moving randomly or collapsing under the > > > force of gravity: this is not the case. A static universe model would > > > also still require a force preventing the universe's collapse so we > > > would still need a negative-pressure vacuum energy or "cosmological > > > constant" or "dark energy". > > > > > > 2. The microwave "background" makes more sense as the limiting > > > > temperature of space heated by starlight than as the remnant of a > > > > fireball. > > > > > No, sorry, but that's not right. Space is empty: it doesn't have an > > > atmosphere so you can't talk about the "temperature of space". As for > > > the microwave background radiation coming from stars, I'm sorry but if > > > if the radiation is coming from distant stars then it wouldn't all be > > > microwave radiation but it would also be heat and light and we would > > > see it coming from all over the sky. The radiation from the big bang > > > appears as microwave radiation as a result of the Doppler Effect and > > > you would have no Doppler Effect in a static universe. > > > > > (Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background_radiation > > > andhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift) > > > > > > 3. Element abundance predictions using the big bang require too many > > > > adjustable parameters to make them work. > > > > > That's not true because you only need hydrogen to make first > > > generation stars: the hydrogen fuses to become helium and then the > > > helium fuses to make the heavier elements. (See > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_evolution) > > > > > > 4. The universe has too much large scale structure (interspersed > > > > "walls" and voids) to form in a time as short as 10-20 billion years. > > > > > Again, this is not true as computer models can reproduce galactic > > > evolution with very few parameters. (Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stru= > > > cture_formation > > > , > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large-scale_structure_of_the_cosmosand > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_formation_and_evolution) > > > > > > 5. The average luminosity of quasars must decrease with time in just > > > > the right way so that their mean apparent brightness is the same at all > > > > redshifts, which is exceedingly unlikely. > > > > > As quasars appear as dots in the sky, it is easy to misidentify a star > > > as a quasar and this is going to skew one's data enormously. Also, to > > > complain about the apparent luminosity of quasars is a bit petty > > > because a quasar that doesn't emit light in the visable spectrum isn't > > > going to be seen with ordinary telescopes and would have to be picked > > > up with radio or x-ray telescopes. > > > > > > 6. The ages of globular clusters appear older than the universe. > > > > > Now that the age of the universe has been found to be 13.7 =B1 0.2 > > > billion years, it is clear that any object that was claimed to be over > > > 14 billion years old was, in fact, misidentified as a quasar. (See > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasarsand > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe) > > > > > > 7. The local streaming motions of galaxies are too high for a finite > > > > universe that is supposed to be everywhere uniform. > > > > > As a physicist, I see this as a restatement of the structure problem > > > applied to galactic momentum: it isn't a separate objection. > > > > > > 8. Invisible dark matter of an unknown but non-baryonic nature must be > > > > the dominant ingredient of the entire universe. > > > > > This is only an objection to the inflationary model of the big bang. > > > Measurement of the mass of galaxies shows that 90% of a galaxy's mass > > > is, in fact, dark matter. This actually supports big bang theory in > > > general. > > > > > > 9. The most distant galaxies in the Hubble Deep Field show insufficient > > > > evidence of evolution, with some of them apparently having higher > > > > redshifts (z =3D 6-7) than the faintest quasars. > > > > > Galaxy formation models have galaxies forming very soon after the big > > > bang so this is not a problem. Galaxies would form first from the > > > matter distributed by the big bang and THEN stars would form. We > > > would not be able to see a galaxy that did not have any stars. (See > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Deep_Field) > > > > > > 10. If the open universe we see today is extrapolated back near the > > > > beginning, the ratio of the actual density of matter in the universe to > > > > the critical density must differ from unity by just a part in 1059. Any > > > > larger deviation would result in a universe already collapsed on itself or > > > > already dissipated. > > > > > But the inflationary model fixes the actual density of the universe to > > > be exactly the critical density so, again, this actually supports the > > > current big bang theory. > > > > > > From: Meta Research Bulletin, v. 6, #4, December 15, 1997. The full list > > > > and details appeared in "The top 30 problems with the Big Bang", Meta > > > > Research Bulletin, v. 11, #1, March 15, 2002. > > > > > Ah, so this is ten years out of date. > > > > > Martin > > > > Martin, > > The original list was published in 1997 but the list has probably been > > updated or changed during the past 10 years. I was shocked at the sites > > that appeared when I googled "Big Bang Problems." I visited one site that > > was probably created by an hard core atheist. His point (if I understood > > him successfully) was that the Big Bang theory was a conspiracy that was > > developed by Christians). The atheist believed the Christians developed > > the theory to convince people that was the method that God used to create > > the solar system. I only read the first paragraph so I might have > > misunderstood some of the details. I found that funny since some > > Christians do not believe the Big Bang theory is a valid theory. > > Jason > > > Ok, Jason. > The big bang is a theory, or much better, a hypothesis. This thing is > so far off in time, and our knowledge so flimsy, that we cannot be > sure of that. Perhaps, the universe started in a quite different > way. All this stuff about the origins of the Universe is nothing more > than scientifical especulation. But some people, had invested in this > field all the faith that theist put in their own gods. > Bramble Bramble, Yes, you are correct. Jason Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:52:05 -0700, Jason wrote: > You appear to know a lot of information about complex subjects Yes, and I've spent 40 years acquiring that knowledge. I've paid many thousands of dollars on books over the years. I've worn out more library cards than I can count. I m virtually never without a book, and while I do enjoy "fluff" reading - SciFi mostly - the lion's share of what I read is science and/or technology. In short, I've done the legwork to understand a few things, yet I'm still learning. > but it > was clear from the responses to my questions that evolution and science > does not have all of the answers. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers. > I googled "Big Bang Problems". I was > shocked at the sites that appeared. I would be, too, as not a one of them will have a single thing to do with evolution. > Mankind did not come about as a > result of random gene mutations. And this has nothing to do with the big bang. Once again, you demonstrate you are simply too stupid to cope with this. You can't even figure out the right branch of science, let alone what that branch actually says. Go eat a book and get back to us when you've digested the contents; it's the closest you're ever going to come to learning anything about science. -- Creationists put the “Duh?” in Fundamentalism. Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:23:39 -0700, Jason wrote: >> Nobody can prove "God does not exist". It is the null hypothesis. It is >> your job to falsify it. > > I know a woman that was healed by God of Parkinson's Disease. Prove it. Prove it was God, and not simply an unexplained remission. This is a problem with you God-deluded idiots; you can't tell the difference between "I don't know" and "God did it", so anything you can't explain somehow "points to God" even when there's not a single justification for such a conclusion. -- “More holes in the theory than a wool jacket at a moth convention.” ML Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 In article <mYE9i.7$K8.6@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-0606071209250001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <f468ua$k2g$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > In article <f43nh2$vee$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >>> In article <a829i.22312$KC4.2371@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> >>> <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >>>>> That is true. I was wanting to go even further back into the > >> >>>>> history of > >> >>>>> the solar system than the Big Bang. I want to know how the mass of > > energy > >> >>>>> (that expanded during the Big Bang) came to be. > >> >>>>> If you don't know the answer--just tell me. Several people are > >> >>>>> trying > >> >>>>> there best to find reasons to avoid answering this question. One > >> >>>>> person > >> >>>>> was honest enough to say that he did not know the answer. > >> >>>>> Jason > >> >>>> Uhh...Jason, what is your definition of the solar system? > >> >>> source: Webster's Dictionary: > >> >>> solar system--the sun together with the group of celestial bodies > >> >>> that are > >> >>> held together by its attraction and revolve around it; also a similar > >> >>> system centered on another star. > >> >> Ok, so you can quote a dictionary. Now use that to understand how > >> >> meaningless "go even further back into the history of the solar system > >> >> than the Big Bang" is. > >> >> > >> >> The big bang was NOT part of the history of the solar system since the > >> >> big bang happened 13 billion years ago (approx) and the solar system > >> >> formed 4.5-5 billion years ago (approx.) > >> >> > >> >> Also, if you knew anything about the big bang, you'd know there was no > >> >> "further back" than it since time itself started at the big bang. > >> > > >> > Do you have evidence that "time started at the big bang"? > >> > >> Yes. Read a book on cosmology or thermodynamics. > >> > >> >>> Are you trying to avoid answering my question: the question is > >> >>> How did the mass of energy that expanded during the Big Bang come to > >> >>> be? > >> >> We don't know. But if you claim that it came to be because of god then > >> >> "How did god come to be?" > >> > > >> > I don't know how God came to be. > >> > >> Then how do you know that god DID come to be? > > > > I see the evidence when I look at the stars in the sky or visit a state > > park. > > > > I also know it when I see evidence that a person was healed of a terrible > > disease or disorder. Here is some evidence for you to consider: > > > > > > THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY > > OF WILLIAM A. KENT > > Giving all the Praise, Honor and Glory unto the Lord through whom this > > testimony is made possible this eleventh day of November 2000. > > Edited this 20th day of December to include the following quote from my > > Doctor, Dr. Dino Delaportas, MD > > > > "I rejoice in awe of you and the miracles the Lord has performed." > > > > > > My physician, as evidenced in the enclosed document, has confirmed the > > miracles I received from the Lord during a Faith and Victory Service at > > the World Harvest Church with Pastor Rod Parsley delivering the Word on > > November 5th, 2000. > > > > On Monday the 13th of May 1985 I was involved in a motorcycle v. train > > accident which resulted in a Closed Head Injury (massive traumatic brain > > injury), Ruptured Optic Nerve (right eye), and Spinal Injuries. These > > injuries left me a quadriplegic (no use of my lower extremities and only > > partial use of my right hand with no feeling on my entire right side) > > cognitive deficits and short-term memory loss. As you can imagine these > > injuries were tremendously life changing. However, being a Born Again > > Christian, as well as having been an Emergency Medical Technician for > > several years before my accident, I was better situated in overcoming my > > injuries and moving forward with my life. > > > > Although I was confined to a wheelchair I was able to continue through Him > > in my education at Salisbury State University, Hagerstown Junior College, > > and Prince George's Community College where I was a student in General > > Studies and Para-Legal Studies. > > > > > > While attending Salisbury State University in 1987, I became involved in > > wheelchair sports and excelled in Shooting. Over the next three years God > > blessed me with 39 Gold Medals, 14 Silver, and 3 Bronze and opportunities > > to compete in Regional, State, National, International, World > > Championships, and the 1988 Paralympics in Seoul, South Korea. During this > > time God also blessed me with 19 National and World Records. > > > > In 1993, while attending Prince George's Community College, I was blessed > > in an internship with Judge William D. Missouri the Administrative Judge > > of the Circuit Court for Prince George's County (the first such internship > > in the Para-Legal program). > > > > During the time between 1994 - June 2000, I went through a lot of turmoil > > in both my personal and professional life and was separated in faith > > through choice and ignorance - I thought I knew better without the Lord - > > was I ever wrong. This was perhaps the most destructive time in my life. I > > attempted suicide twice, lost the love of my life (so I thought), lost a > > business, and lots of friends. > > > > Finally in July 2000, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was stuck > > at my Sister-in-Christ's house with a broken down van. During this time I > > was lead back to the Lord and magnificent things started happening. I > > became so full of the Spirit that I lost control and have completely > > surrendered unto Him. I became active in the Church (The Tabernacle Church > > of Laurel, MD) and have been working on computers at the church since. > > About three weeks before the November 5th service at the World Harvest > > Church the Lord moved in me that I needed to be in Columbus, Ohio on > > November 5th. I didn't know why. I didn't know anyone in Columbus nor had > > I ever heard of Pastor Rod Parsley or the World Harvest Church. Then about > > two weeks later I saw in infomercial about a Dept Burning Service at the > > World Harvest Church and the fact that the church was located in Columbus, > > Ohio. The Lord immediately came over me and led me to call the church > > right then to get the information, which ultimately lead to my being there > > on November 5th. > > > > On the evening of Thursday, November 2nd I went to service at the > > Tabernacle Church in Laurel, MD and gave testimony that the Lord had > > placed it on my heart that I was to go to the World Harvest Church in > > Columbus, Ohio and that I was to receive a healing - just what healing I > > didn't know as I had several ailments. Pastor Gurley then prayed over me > > for a healing that manifested the next morning with the feeling being > > restored to my right hand. Later that Thursday evening Pastor Gurley took > > an offering in order that my gas be covered to get me to Columbus - > > otherwise, without this blessing from God, I would not have been able to > > receive the awesome blessing that the Lord has provided. > > > > Upon arrival at the World Harvest Church I called into the church from the > > parking lot, on my cell phone to speak with Ed McKee to see if there was > > some type accommodation that I may freshen up after my more than 400 mile > > drive. During this conversation I was informed that Ed was not there and > > that I had called in on the Prayer Line and the offer was extended for > > prayer. I accepted the offer and during this prayer a burning sensation > > came over my feet and I knew that the Lord was once again at work in my > > body and at that point I declared through Him that I would be healed and > > that I would accept His blessing that would enable me to walk. I revealed > > this to the prayer partner and asked that she keep an eye out for this > > miracle and then come shake my hand afterward so that I may meet her and > > thank her for agreeing in this healing. > > > > During the service at the World Harvest Church on November 5th Pastor > > Parsley called all those with diabetes to come forward - and while I was > > up there the Pastor named several other afflictions and during this time I > > could feel the Lord working on my body and when I went to adjust myself in > > my wheelchair one of your ushers asked if I was trying to get out of my > > chair - and before I had a chance to respond the Spirit took control and > > spoke through me and said "I'm going to jump out of this chair in thirty > > seconds" - well guess what? - in thirty seconds I was standing for the > > first time in 15 1 Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:32:07 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >The point was related to evidence related to God. If there is evidence >> >from many different ancient civilizations that those people believed in >> >God or Gods > The sun God Shamash is mentioned in the law code of Hammurabi. All this shows is that some people believe in gods. We know that. The question at hand is not whether some people believe in gods, but whether there is evidence that gods actually exist. Try again. -- Nutball scum of a feather flock together. - David Rice Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:16:58 -0700, Jason wrote: > In article <0u4hj4-b76.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:10:58 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> > Bob, >> > Thanks for telling me your opinions on this subject. I have read about >> > some of the problems with the theory. Do you know anything about the >> > problems that the experts are having with the Big Bang theory? >> >> Here's one: it has been suggested that we are informationally isolated >> from events "before" Planck time, as "before" this, the laws of physics as >> we know them break down. >> >> What this means is that it may well be essentially meaningless to even >> speak of "before this time" as we cannot be sure that time itself, let >> alone any implied directionality thereof, was in effect, or, if it was, >> what if any implications this has on anything from origins to expansion. > > Thanks for your post. Yes, well, the question isn't whether you thank me for it, but whether you understand the concepts. -- “But a far more fascinating read for you would be a book by Richard Dawkins called _The Blind Watchmaker_. The two books together are an education all by themselves, and they are written by two men who have devoted their entire lives to understanding what makes the world and the lifeforms on it tick, just as your preacher has devoted his life to finding out how to make people belief the Bible without ever reading it on their own.” --- Marilyn Burge Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:32:07 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-0506072132080001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <vq7c635rnq3na6a6isbetaim0eog4bjqs9@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: .... >> Not one of those are evidence related to any gods at all. You are the >> most stubbornly ignorant man I have ever had to deal with. > > >The sun God Shamash is mentioned in the law code of Hammurabi. Do you believe in the sun God Shamash because it was mentioned in the law code of Hammurabi? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-0606071214370001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1181116197.466834.209470@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 6, 11:24 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1181089429.327200.94...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > On Jun 6, 3:32 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > > Written evidence (contracts, wills) are used in courts on a daily basis. >> > >> > > And written "evidence" that has not been authenticated or witnessed is >> > > dismissed as fraudulent. Every day. >> > >> > Some archeologists and paleontologists are experts in regard to written >> > evidence related to ancient civiliizations. >> >> And these experts are not on your side. >> >> See http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm >> >> Martin > >NO >However, there is a section in the back of my study Bible entitled, >"Archeology Discoveries". I was told (and I don't have the evidence) that >most (or all) colleges that offer degrees in Archeology--require >archeology students to take at least one course related to Bible History. >They mainly concentrate on the portions of the Old Testament related to >ancient cities. Are you aware that as a result of the archaeology that has been done in the Holy Land that we know that many of the stories in the Old Testament are not historically accurate? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:24:34 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-0606071424340001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <prC9i.28164$JQ3.953@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" ><mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-0506071933390001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <lkub639s9o4sq1h4n626gtsm5qasut32su@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:00:56 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-0506071300570001@66-52-22-62.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <f441ch$9ch$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> >> ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> > In article <oppej4-agk.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> >> >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:54:11 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> I had one professor that had a Ph.D degree and I had no respect >> > for that >> >> >> >>> professor. I do respect Dr. Gish. >> >> >> >> On what basis? What part of his long and well-documented history >> > of lies, >> >> >> >> deception and dishonesty do you find worthy of respect? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > It's a long story so I won't bore you. The bottom line that she >> >> >> > rediculed >> >> >> > several other Christians and myself. >> >> >> >> >> >> What part of "What part of his long and well-documented history of >> >> >> lies, >> >> >> deception and dishonesty do you find worthy of respect?" did you seem >> >> >> to >> >> >> not comprehend? >> >> >> >> >> >> I.e. Kelsey wasn't asking why you didn't respect your professor but >> >> >> was, >> >> >> instead, asking why DO you respect Dr. Gish? >> >> >> >> >> >> (And you claim to have a masters degree? In what? Illiteracy?) >> >> > >> >> >I respect Dr. Gish because of his accomplishments. >> >> >> >> Claims like this cause me not to respect you because you are so easily >> >> gulled, but refuse to admit it. >> >> >> >> >I was present when he >> >> >debated a science professor from the local state college. In my opinion, >> >> >he won that debate. >> >> >> >> You are wrong. Gish may have conned you, but he didn't win a debate. >> > >> > Unless you attended that same debate that I attended, how would you know. >> >> >> Because he knows Gish. Gish is a liar and a fraud. You can see that here: >> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/cre-error.html >> >> >> >Those are two of the reasons that I respect him. I >> >> >debated that same professor in his office the week before he debated Dr. >> >> >Gish. He easily won the debate that he had with me. He probably believed >> >> >that he could just as easily win the debate with Dr. Gish. However, Dr. >> >> >Gish was an experienced debater and easily won the debate. >> >> >> >> Gish lied. You bought his lies. >> >> No comment Jason? We are asserting that Bullfrog Gish is a liar. We have >> evidence to support that assertion. Yet you still respect him???? > >Let's say that you lived in a different city than your father lived. You >have a great deal of respect for your father. You meet someone that starts >to tell you how evil your father is and that he had all sorts of evidence >about your father. > >You would have two options: >option 1: Agree agree that man and agree with the evidence. >option 2: Continue to have respect for your father and disregard the evidence. > >I would choose option 2. >option 2: You have chosen to ally yourself with a liar and a con man who steals from Christians by telling them lies that they want to hear. You are as morally corrupt as Gish is. Are you actually paid by the ICR to be a shill for their lies? I don't know of any other reason a supposed Christian would support a liar over the truth. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:04:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-0606071304200001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1181115259.911064.176680@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: .... >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics >> >> Aren't you embarassed by your lack of knowledge of physics? It's not >> something a normal person would flaunt. >> >> Martin > >No--there are millions of us. > At times you seem to be proud of your ignorance. Apparently the Parable of the Talents is one of Jesus' parables that you do not know. Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:19:37 -0700, Jason wrote: >> So far, relativity has not been refuted. The Big Bang started with a >> singularity. Within a singularity, there is no time. Since there was >> nothing outside (not even space), there was no time.\ > > Scientists may have a consensus about this subject but I doubt that they > have evidence that time did not exist prior to the Big Bang. It is more correct to say that our notions of time simply have no relevance in a singularity. -- “All home-schooling will do is guarantee your kids are as stupid as you are.” - Marilyn Burge Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 [snips] On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:57:51 -0700, Jason wrote: > I have stated in other posts that neither myself or other advocates of > creation research know how God was able to do it but believe he did do it. > You know more about math than I know but it did not pass the "common > sense" test when someone stated that time and space did not exist prior to > the Big Bang. That appeared to me to be an unproven concept. Do you > believe that time and physics did not exist prior to the Big Bang? It's not a question of belief; it's a question of data. Space involves spatial dimensions, which implies a physical structure to space - n dimensions, each so large, etc. Time involves measurement, which implies both something _to_ measure, and a meaningful set of mechanics by which to measure it. The whole point to a singularity is that the laws of physics as we know them break down, so that we cannot assert there _is_ a structure, let alone define it, nor can we assert there _are_ things to measure, let alone how to measure them, inside a singularity. Thus to assert that space or time exist in or before the singularity is to attempt to impose rules which apply _within_ a system, to something which is not, itself, part of that system and for which there is no foundation n which to build a case that it, too, follows the same or similar rules. -- Ft. Smith, Arkansas? Let me guess. The eldest male in your household is referred to as ‘Uncle Dad’. - Marty Leipzig Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 [snips] On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:09:25 -0700, Jason wrote: >> Then how do you know that god DID come to be? > > I see the evidence when I look at the stars in the sky or visit a state > park. So do I - I see evidence that stars and parks exist. Nothing about gods, though. > I also know it when I see evidence that a person was healed of a > terrible disease or disorder. I see evidence they were healed; nothing implies gods, though. Oh, your cute little story, like all such, assumes God is a driveling idiot, so it's not the sort of thing I'd tend to spew if I were a believer. The notion God is such a complete fucking retard that he can't figure out - despite being all-knowing - who needs healing unless he has some snake-oil salesman to ring a bell and say "Here's one" makes God out to be an incompetent, useless fuckup. 'Course, the fact he's also supposed to be all-powerful yet can't snap his fingers and instantly heal people completely likewise makes him look like a complete fuck-up. Fine, you've got a story which, if we accept it, makes God out to be an incompetent idiot. Why you'd want to show us this isn't clear - giving up your religion, are you? One thing I find really amusing about all these is that they never - and I mean never - involve anything which would actually require a miraculous intervention to explain; they are all, without exception, cases where the most honest thing one can say about them is "Cure is currently unexplained." Want to impress us? Show us someone who has actually had a leg amputated have it miraculously grow back, right there on stage. Oh, wait, never happens. God, if he exists and is even half of what he's cracked up to be, could do it in a heartbeat, yet it never ever EVER seems to actually happen. You'll never find a case where there's something actually interesting happening; it is always "Well, something happened, coulda been gods, coulda been the meds finally working, coulda been any of a thousand other things, who knows?" - yet we're supposed to conclude only one possible explanation is allowed - the one that _assumes_ gods exist. -- it’s much easier to overcome a chemical addiction than a mental one. • Christopher Baker Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:52:07 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-0606071752070001@66-52-22-48.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <l5rjj4-ofp.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:09:25 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> Then how do you know that god DID come to be? >> > >> > I see the evidence when I look at the stars in the sky or visit a state >> > park. >> >> So do I - I see evidence that stars and parks exist. Nothing about gods, >> though. >> >> > I also know it when I see evidence that a person was healed of a >> > terrible disease or disorder. >> >> I see evidence they were healed; nothing implies gods, though. >> >> Oh, your cute little story, like all such, assumes God is a driveling >> idiot, so it's not the sort of thing I'd tend to spew if I were a >> believer. The notion God is such a complete fucking retard that he can't >> figure out - despite being all-knowing - who needs healing unless he has >> some snake-oil salesman to ring a bell and say "Here's one" makes God out >> to be an incompetent, useless fuckup. >> >> 'Course, the fact he's also supposed to be all-powerful yet can't snap his >> fingers and instantly heal people completely likewise makes him look like >> a complete fuck-up. >> >> Fine, you've got a story which, if we accept it, makes God out to be an >> incompetent idiot. Why you'd want to show us this isn't clear - giving up >> your religion, are you? >> >> One thing I find really amusing about all these is that they never - and I >> mean never - involve anything which would actually require a miraculous >> intervention to explain; they are all, without exception, cases where the >> most honest thing one can say about them is "Cure is currently unexplained." >> >> Want to impress us? Show us someone who has actually had a leg amputated >> have it miraculously grow back, right there on stage. Oh, wait, never >> happens. God, if he exists and is even half of what he's cracked up to >> be, could do it in a heartbeat, yet it never ever EVER seems to actually >> happen. You'll never find a case where there's something actually >> interesting happening; it is always "Well, something happened, coulda been >> gods, coulda been the meds finally working, coulda been any of a thousand >> other things, who knows?" - yet we're supposed to conclude only one >> possible explanation is allowed - the one that _assumes_ gods exist. > >Google "miracle healings" and you may be able to find some testimonies >that will convince you that God is still healing people in much the same >way that he healed people while Jesus was on this earth. > The testimonies are not evidence. They merely reflect the state of mind of the people giving testimony. Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 [snips] On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:02:43 -0700, Jason wrote: >> > Is this a natural law: >> > The total energy of an isolated system can not change. >> > >> > If it is a natural law, it seems to be in conflict with this statement >> > that you made: >> > "It is possible to get something from nothing". >> >> Your "knowledge" of physics is a hundred years out of date. Why do >> yiu refuse to consult the links? Do you think everybody who writes >> for wikipedia is lying? >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Field_Theory >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass-energy_equivalence >> >> Martin > > Martin, > I find it boring to read long articles related to Quantum Physics. So let's see. The last 100 years worth of work might actually refute your pet argument, therefore instead of doing the honest thing - tackling the physics even if it does invalidate your argument - you choose, instead, to run away from the physics itself. Compelling support for your side, wot? -- Think “HONK” if you’re a telepath. Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:58:23 -0700, Jason wrote: >> I'm not interested - I'm just proving you that you were wrong when you >> stated that a history of witchcraft was being taught as a college course. A >> history class about the Salem witch trials is NOT the same thing. > > In one of the states, they want to teach a high school class entitled, > "The Bible as History". Would you be in favor of a state high school > teaching such a course? "The Bible _as_ history" suggests the usage of the Bible, rather than other texts, to define at least some portion of history; this strikes me as a poor idea. "The Bible _in_ History", however, would presumably examine what we do know of history - from many sources - and where the Bible's historical writings fit - or don't - within the rest. What matters is the content, though, not the name. Knowing just the title, we lack sufficient information to agree or disagree with the course. On the other hand, if a college wants to offer religious studies of whatever sort for the students who are religious - or curious - fine, go for it, as long as they're not required and don't impact on real subjects. -- “Hellmark---when you care enough to send the very damnation!” - Al S. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 In article <jbojj4-ofp.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:23:39 -0700, Jason wrote: > > >> Nobody can prove "God does not exist". It is the null hypothesis. It is > >> your job to falsify it. > > > > I know a woman that was healed by God of Parkinson's Disease. > > Prove it. Prove it was God, and not simply an unexplained remission. > > This is a problem with you God-deluded idiots; you can't tell the > difference between "I don't know" and "God did it", so anything you can't > explain somehow "points to God" even when there's not a single > justification for such a conclusion. Evidence that God can heal people: Google "miracle healings" if you need more evidence about some of the people that God has healed. THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM A. KENT Giving all the Praise, Honor and Glory unto the Lord through whom this testimony is made possible this eleventh day of November 2000. Edited this 20th day of December to include the following quote from my Doctor, Dr. Dino Delaportas, MD "I rejoice in awe of you and the miracles the Lord has performed." My physician, as evidenced in the enclosed document, has confirmed the miracles I received from the Lord during a Faith and Victory Service at the World Harvest Church with Pastor Rod Parsley delivering the Word on November 5th, 2000. On Monday the 13th of May 1985 I was involved in a motorcycle v. train accident which resulted in a Closed Head Injury (massive traumatic brain injury), Ruptured Optic Nerve (right eye), and Spinal Injuries. These injuries left me a quadriplegic (no use of my lower extremities and only partial use of my right hand with no feeling on my entire right side) cognitive deficits and short-term memory loss. As you can imagine these injuries were tremendously life changing. However, being a Born Again Christian, as well as having been an Emergency Medical Technician for several years before my accident, I was better situated in overcoming my injuries and moving forward with my life. Although I was confined to a wheelchair I was able to continue through Him in my education at Salisbury State University, Hagerstown Junior College, and Prince George's Community College where I was a student in General Studies and Para-Legal Studies. While attending Salisbury State University in 1987, I became involved in wheelchair sports and excelled in Shooting. Over the next three years God blessed me with 39 Gold Medals, 14 Silver, and 3 Bronze and opportunities to compete in Regional, State, National, International, World Championships, and the 1988 Paralympics in Seoul, South Korea. During this time God also blessed me with 19 National and World Records. In 1993, while attending Prince George's Community College, I was blessed in an internship with Judge William D. Missouri the Administrative Judge of the Circuit Court for Prince George's County (the first such internship in the Para-Legal program). During the time between 1994 - June 2000, I went through a lot of turmoil in both my personal and professional life and was separated in faith through choice and ignorance - I thought I knew better without the Lord - was I ever wrong. This was perhaps the most destructive time in my life. I attempted suicide twice, lost the love of my life (so I thought), lost a business, and lots of friends. Finally in July 2000, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was stuck at my Sister-in-Christ's house with a broken down van. During this time I was lead back to the Lord and magnificent things started happening. I became so full of the Spirit that I lost control and have completely surrendered unto Him. I became active in the Church (The Tabernacle Church of Laurel, MD) and have been working on computers at the church since. About three weeks before the November 5th service at the World Harvest Church the Lord moved in me that I needed to be in Columbus, Ohio on November 5th. I didn't know why. I didn't know anyone in Columbus nor had I ever heard of Pastor Rod Parsley or the World Harvest Church. Then about two weeks later I saw in infomercial about a Dept Burning Service at the World Harvest Church and the fact that the church was located in Columbus, Ohio. The Lord immediately came over me and led me to call the church right then to get the information, which ultimately lead to my being there on November 5th. On the evening of Thursday, November 2nd I went to service at the Tabernacle Church in Laurel, MD and gave testimony that the Lord had placed it on my heart that I was to go to the World Harvest Church in Columbus, Ohio and that I was to receive a healing - just what healing I didn't know as I had several ailments. Pastor Gurley then prayed over me for a healing that manifested the next morning with the feeling being restored to my right hand. Later that Thursday evening Pastor Gurley took an offering in order that my gas be covered to get me to Columbus - otherwise, without this blessing from God, I would not have been able to receive the awesome blessing that the Lord has provided. Upon arrival at the World Harvest Church I called into the church from the parking lot, on my cell phone to speak with Ed McKee to see if there was some type accommodation that I may freshen up after my more than 400 mile drive. During this conversation I was informed that Ed was not there and that I had called in on the Prayer Line and the offer was extended for prayer. I accepted the offer and during this prayer a burning sensation came over my feet and I knew that the Lord was once again at work in my body and at that point I declared through Him that I would be healed and that I would accept His blessing that would enable me to walk. I revealed this to the prayer partner and asked that she keep an eye out for this miracle and then come shake my hand afterward so that I may meet her and thank her for agreeing in this healing. During the service at the World Harvest Church on November 5th Pastor Parsley called all those with diabetes to come forward - and while I was up there the Pastor named several other afflictions and during this time I could feel the Lord working on my body and when I went to adjust myself in my wheelchair one of your ushers asked if I was trying to get out of my chair - and before I had a chance to respond the Spirit took control and spoke through me and said "I'm going to jump out of this chair in thirty seconds" - well guess what? - in thirty seconds I was standing for the first time in 15 1 Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:29:58 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-0606071829590001@66-52-22-48.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <hfde63dca58omfcv2llpie6a31salkrif1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:32:07 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-0506072132080001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <vq7c635rnq3na6a6isbetaim0eog4bjqs9@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> ... >> >> >> Not one of those are evidence related to any gods at all. You are the >> >> most stubbornly ignorant man I have ever had to deal with. >> > >> > >> >The sun God Shamash is mentioned in the law code of Hammurabi. >> >> Do you believe in the sun God Shamash because it was mentioned in the >> law code of Hammurabi? > >No--I was aswering a question--see the above two posts. > The fact that people worshipped gods is not evidence that the gods existed. Is this really confusing to you? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:23:11 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-0606071823120001@66-52-22-48.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <3ude639n85rvgsph18v5hqb2rj8fpsvb7t@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-0606071214370001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <1181116197.466834.209470@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 6, 11:24 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <1181089429.327200.94...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> > >> >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > > On Jun 6, 3:32 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > > Written evidence (contracts, wills) are used in courts on a >daily basis. >> >> > >> >> > > And written "evidence" that has not been authenticated or witnessed is >> >> > > dismissed as fraudulent. Every day. >> >> > >> >> > Some archeologists and paleontologists are experts in regard to written >> >> > evidence related to ancient civiliizations. >> >> >> >> And these experts are not on your side. >> >> >> >> See http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> >NO >> >However, there is a section in the back of my study Bible entitled, >> >"Archeology Discoveries". I was told (and I don't have the evidence) that >> >most (or all) colleges that offer degrees in Archeology--require >> >archeology students to take at least one course related to Bible History. >> >They mainly concentrate on the portions of the Old Testament related to >> >ancient cities. >> >> Are you aware that as a result of the archaeology that has been done in >> the Holy Land that we know that many of the stories in the Old Testament >> are not historically accurate? > >I just checked the back of my study Bible and found no information about >that subject. It would be an unusual place for you to find out that the Bible isn't accurate. Does your study Bible tell you of any errors in the Bible? Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:22:10 -0700, Jason wrote: > Thanks for your post. It's my opinion that time did exist prior to the Big > Bang. Okay, fine. On what do you base your opinion? Let's see. We measure time by events - oscillations of an atom, for example. We measure that by its interaction with, say, photons, which in turn interact with sensors. Except there are no sensors, no atoms. So what are we measuring? For that matter, while we might posit there were photons or some equivalent, we cannot state that the rules by which they operate here and now also apply, so we cannot even correctly say we could use those to perform measurements, even if there were something to measure. So on what do you base your opinion that time did exist "prior" to the BB? On what basis do you assert that "before the BB" is even a sensible statement? -- We’re not here to discuss religion, we’re here to be disgusted by it. - Gwenny Quote
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