Guest Jason Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 In article <1181528064.340925.207680@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 11, 3:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article > > <DipthotDipthot-421910.10183210062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > In article > > > <Jason-0906072006580...@66-52-22-86.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article > > > > <DipthotDipthot-E33034.16000109062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > In article > > > > > <Jason-0906071313520...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-294445.11505509062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > <Jason-0906071219110...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What caused that leg to get longer if God did not heal her? > > > > > > > > > Ahem. > > > > > > > > > You are assuming that we accept your telling of the story. > > > > > > > > > I, for one, do not. Provide an authoritative source to support it. > > > > > > > Otherwise, my position is one of doubt. > > > > > > > > Do you believe the lady (a former Miss America) was lying when she > > stated > > > > > > that she was healed by God? > > > > > > > Was I unclear? I repeat: You are assuming that we accept your telling > > > > > of the alleged story. > > > > > > > > If not, how do you explain why her legs are now the same size? > > > > > > > I guess I was unclear. > > > > > > > Look, fellow: You have not proven yourself a reliable source of fact > > > > > about anything. You have shown yourself to be a fan of liars. Why > > > > > should anyone trust that you have a story about a beauty queen and her > > > > > magic leg? > > > > > > I copy and pasted the story from a website. > > > > > Ooooooh, I am impressed. If it's from a Web site, then it must be true. > > > I read about the Flying Spaghetti Monster from a Web site too. (May you > > > be blessed by his noodly appendages.) > > > > >http://www.venganza.org/ > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > If you think that I am not > > > > telling the truth about Cheryl Prewitt--google that name. > > > > > It ain't my job to do your proving, boy. > > > > > Besides, elsewhere in this thread, someone already did said search and > > > learned that you are a lying idiot. Or extremely gullible. > > > > > Or both. > > > > > > One of the of > > > > members of this newsgroup told me that he googled her name and the result > > > > was over 700 websites. Cheryl Prewitt is a former Miss America. > > > > > But that poster was still not impressed by your claims about a divine > > > leg-lengthening. > > > > > Of course you chose not to mention that. > > > > > I wonder why. > > > > I am no longer shocked when atheists do not believe the testimonies of > > people that have been healed by God. Atheists do not believe there is a > > God so therefore they automatically reject any evidence (testimonies) > > indicating that God was responsible for the healings. Those same atheists > > automatically believe that a single cell (example: bacteria) evolved into > > single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). They > > don't even need evidence in order to believe it since it fits their belief > > system. > > Again you neglected to look up and confirm that evidence for this > process DOES exist and is well known to biologists. > > Martin Martin, I have a question for you. Has an experiment like this been done: The scientists place bacteria (and nothing else) on a lab table. They can mix any elements or combinations of elements with the bacteria. They can mix amino acids with the bacteria. I mentioned the above items since they were probably present before life forms were on this earth. Have the scientists done an experiment like the one mentioned above? If so, was the result: bacteria that evolved into an: Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). If so, refer me to a website that mentions the experiment. I may ask a biology professor at the local state college this same question. Quote
Guest Bob T. Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On Jun 10, 8:47 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1181528064.340925.207...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 11, 3:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article > > > <DipthotDipthot-421910.10183210062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > In article > > > > <Jason-0906072006580...@66-52-22-86.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-E33034.16000109062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <Jason-0906071313520...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-294445.11505509062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > <Jason-0906071219110...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What caused that leg to get longer if God did not heal her? > > > > > > > > > Ahem. > > > > > > > > > You are assuming that we accept your telling of the story. > > > > > > > > > I, for one, do not. Provide an authoritative source to > support it. > > > > > > > > Otherwise, my position is one of doubt. > > > > > > > > Do you believe the lady (a former Miss America) was lying when she > > > stated > > > > > > > that she was healed by God? > > > > > > > Was I unclear? I repeat: You are assuming that we accept your telling > > > > > > of the alleged story. > > > > > > > > If not, how do you explain why her legs are now the same size? > > > > > > > I guess I was unclear. > > > > > > > Look, fellow: You have not proven yourself a reliable source of fact > > > > > > about anything. You have shown yourself to be a fan of liars. Why > > > > > > should anyone trust that you have a story about a beauty queen and her > > > > > > magic leg? > > > > > > I copy and pasted the story from a website. > > > > > Ooooooh, I am impressed. If it's from a Web site, then it must be true. > > > > I read about the Flying Spaghetti Monster from a Web site too. (May you > > > > be blessed by his noodly appendages.) > > > > >http://www.venganza.org/ > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > If you think that I am not > > > > > telling the truth about Cheryl Prewitt--google that name. > > > > > It ain't my job to do your proving, boy. > > > > > Besides, elsewhere in this thread, someone already did said search and > > > > learned that you are a lying idiot. Or extremely gullible. > > > > > Or both. > > > > > > One of the of > > > > > members of this newsgroup told me that he googled her name and the > result > > > > > was over 700 websites. Cheryl Prewitt is a former Miss America. > > > > > But that poster was still not impressed by your claims about a divine > > > > leg-lengthening. > > > > > Of course you chose not to mention that. > > > > > I wonder why. > > > > I am no longer shocked when atheists do not believe the testimonies of > > > people that have been healed by God. Atheists do not believe there is a > > > God so therefore they automatically reject any evidence (testimonies) > > > indicating that God was responsible for the healings. Those same atheists > > > automatically believe that a single cell (example: bacteria) evolved into > > > single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). They > > > don't even need evidence in order to believe it since it fits their belief > > > system. > > > Again you neglected to look up and confirm that evidence for this > > process DOES exist and is well known to biologists. > > > Martin > > Martin, > I have a question for you. Has an experiment like this been done: > > The scientists place bacteria (and nothing else) on a lab table. They can > mix any elements or combinations of elements with the bacteria. They can > mix amino acids with the bacteria. > I mentioned the above items since they were probably present before life > forms were on this earth. > > Have the scientists done an experiment like the one mentioned above? If > so, was the result: bacteria that evolved into an: > > Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). > > If so, refer me to a website that mentions the experiment. > > I may ask a biology professor at the local state college this same question. You forgot to include a crucial element: millions of years of time, because that's how long it took in the first place. Please get back to me when enough time has passed for the experiment to be valid. - Bob T. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 In article <1181528113.725802.73450@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 11, 4:24 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <5ngo63t09q0834972trnirboqg5htee...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:16:04 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > <Jason-1006071216050...@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >In article <9ijtj4-umv....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > ><kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> [snips] > > > > > >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:33:05 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > > > >> > Most atheists believe that the Big Bang was how the solar system > > and earth > > > >> > came into be. They believe that abiogenesis and evolution is how all life > > > >> > came into be. They believe that humans evolved from othr life-forms > > > >> > without any involvement from God. > > > > > >> Maybe they do, maybe they don't. In any case, you're dealing with at > > > >> least three completely separate subjects there, so lumping them all > > > >> together under a single heading is at best wildly inaccurate, and when > > > >> _you_ do it, has certain undertones of willful dishonesty. > > > > > >> > When someone like myself provides evidence (testimonies) > > > > > >> Testimony isn't evidence, it's testimony. > > > > > >> > that indicates > > > >> > two people were healed by God > > > > > >> Actually, you didn't provide any such. What you provided was two examples > > > >> of people being healed, period. To claim they were healed by God, you'd > > > >> have to first show that God even exists, then show he is capable of > > > >> performing such feats, then show that he did in fact perform those > > > >> feats. You've done none of these steps; you have not, therefore, shown > > > >> that God healed anyone. > > > > > >> > they reject the evidence since it does > > > >> > not "fit" their belief system. > > > > > >> We reject it as evidence because it isn't evidence. Let's see if we can > > > >> make this sink in. > > > > > >> Suppose Mike says he has a document which says you owe him a million > > > >> dollars, payable on demand. Are you going to pay up? > > > > > >> Obviously not. You're going to expect him to back up his claim - with > > > >> evidence that such a document exists. Aha! Now I chime in and tell you I > > > >> have seen this document and because I'm now offering testimony, you have > > > >> to - by your own standards - accept that the document is valid, and you > > > >> now owe him a million dollars, so pay up. > > > > > >> Are you going to do this? Obviously not - because he could be lying. Or > > > >> I could. Or we both could. Or there may be terms and conditions in the > > > >> document which would let you off the hook. Or any of a hundred other > > > >> reasons why you don't have to pay. > > > > > >> The problem though is that by not paying, you'd be expressly agreeing > > > >> that testimony is not, in fact, evidence of the debt. You wouldn't accept > > > >> it, but for some reason you expect us to accept it. > > > > > >> What we do expect is evidence . > > > > > >> > On the other hand, they believe aspects > > > >> > of evolution or abiogenesis--even if there is NO evidence or very little > > > >> > evidence. > > > > > >> Actually, no, we accept some, most or even all of any given branch of > > > >> science based on the evidence . This, for example, is why I keep trying > > > >> to get you to learn how to read, to tell the difference between evolution > > > >> and abiogenesis. One of them - evolution - is very well supported with > > > >> evidence, not to mention being an observable phenomenon. The other - > > > >> abiogensis - is, in my understanding, considerably less well supported. > > > >> As such, I continue to discuss one subject - evolution - and not the > > > >> other; aside from any other issues, it's not my field. > > > > > >> So it would be really nice if you could clue in enough to grasp that we > > > >> deal with these different subjects as different subjects, not as one > > > >> single monolithic whole. > > > > > >> > For example, these are the first two steps in the evolution of man: STEP > > > >> > 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA > > > >> > nucleus capable of sexual reproduction) > > > > > >> Actually, those are nowhere near the first two steps. The first step > > > >> would be self-replicating molecules and asexual reproduction. Cells > > > >> came considerably later, and sexual reproduction didn't come around for > > > >> _at least_ a couple hundred million years later. > > > > > >> > There has been lots of research related to bacteria. None of those > > > >> > research projects have provided evidence which has indicated that > > > >> > bacteria evolved into an animal cell. > > > > > >> Last I checked, bacteria were animal cells. Unicellular organisms, and > > > >> neither plant nor mineral. > > > > > >> > If it happened naturally millions > > > >> > of years ago, it should be easy for scientists to cause it to happen > > > >> > again. > > > > > >> Why? Supernovae also happened millions of years ago, and I rather suspect > > > >> science would be hard-pressed to cause one to happen. > > > > > >> > In other words, there is NO evidence that animal cells evolved > > > >> > from bacteria. However, that does not stop athiests and the advocates of > > > >> > evolution and abiogenesis from believing that it happened. > > > > > >> I'm not aware of anyone who is confused that bacteria are animal cells, > > > >> other than apparently you. > > > > > >I was referring to these two steps: > > > > > >STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) > > > >STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction) > > > > > >Testimony is considered as evidence in court. Someone pointed out that > > > >physical evidence (eg gun, bloody knife) is more important than testimony. > > > >I agreed with that person that made that statement. > > > > > >Let's say that the neighbors in an apartment building hear a married > > > >couple having an argument. They hear the husband say, "I'm going to kill > > > >you". The argument ends and the police are not called. The following day, > > > >the wife was shot as she was walking home from work. The husband took a > > > >shower after he shot his wife and washed his hands with bleach to remove > > > >any evidence. There were no witnesses present when the husband shot his > > > >wife. The police are not able to find a gun when they search the apartment > > > >and all surrounding areas. They arrest the husband and charge him with the > > > >murder. All of the neighbors provide testimony at the murder trial. > > > > > >The jury members convict the husband of first degree murder--based upon > > > >the testimonies of the people that heard the argument and heard him say, > > > >"I'm going to kill you." > > > > > >Do you now understand that TESTIMONY is evidence--even if there is no > > > >physical evidence? > > > >jason > > > > > I see that you haven't learned a thing about testimony and continue to > > > make false claims about what is allowed and what is not allowed in > > > court. > > > > I am not a lawyer but I have attended one murder trial. I have attended > > jury training sessions. > > Don't forget that you've also watched episodes of CSI. Yes--you are correct. I also enjoy "24" > > This is what Edgar Alan Poe meant when he said that a _little_ > learning is a dangerous thing. People end up thinking they are > experts and start spewing all kinds of bullshit. > > Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 In article <1181528337.630645.326210@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 11, 4:49 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <smjo63luhj802uvt69su43het7vi2b1...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:57:36 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > <Jason-1006071257370...@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >In article <bg8o63lsgkbuk6ioqc8gr4lcjga1ror...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:47:58 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > >> <Jason-1006070947590...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >> >In article <1181469394.462447.51...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> >> On Jun 10, 1:55 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> >> > Since testimony is considered as evidence in court, I also > > consider the > > > >> >> > testimony of Cheryl Prewitt as evidence. If you do not consider her > > > >> >> > testimony as evidence, that is your choice. Have you provided in > > evidence > > > >> >> > that indicates that it is possible for bacteria to naturally > > evolve into > > > >> >> > an animal cell? > > > > > >> >> Physical evidence trumps testimony, Jason. It's the only thing that > > > >> >> can be double checked and verified. > > > > > >> >> Martin > > > > > >> >That is true but would you acknowledge that testimony is also evidence? > > > > > >> Made up stories are not evidence. > > > > > >Is a testimony evidence? > > > > > Once again, your question demands a misleading answer. > > > > > People are not always allowed to testify in court about what they want > > > to testify about. Ms. Prewitt's opinion about how her leg got longer, if > > > in fact it did, is one such claim that would not be allowed in court. > > > > > Actual, corroborated, eyewitness testimony is allowed, but physical > > > evidence will override claims of personal experience. > > > > > Science, of course, does not use testimony as evidence. > > > > Cheryl Prewitt could probably produce the physical evidence such as the > > X-Rays that were done in relation to accident and surgery. For example, a > > leg bone may have been crushed. The doctor probably removed about two > > inches of bone. > > Amazing. You are now admitting you don't know the details of the > case. > > If nothing was removed then nothing grew back. I hurt my hand a few > years ago. I got better. I feel down and hurt my side a year or so > ago. I got better. My wife broke her arm while she was cleaning. > She got better. Cheryl Prewitt got hurt in a car accident. She got > better. And yet you are talking as though this is some great mystery. > > Martin Martin, I heard her testimony but as you know--my memory is bad--statin related memory problems. I can no longer spell words that I once could easily spell. I do remember that she said that her leg was damaged in a car accident. The doctors had to remove a portion of the leg bone which was the reason one leg was two inches shorter than the other leg. In the case of your injuries and the injury of your wife--sections of bone did not have to be removed--unless you left something out of your story. You are intelligent enough to know that all broken bones are not the same--if the bone is crushed--the bad section of bone is removed and the remaining two sections are put back together with pins. In her case, about 2 inches of leg bone was removed. My friend lost about 5 inches of leg bone as a result of an injury. He wears a platform shoe on one foot and walks with a limp. jason Quote
Guest 655321 Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 In article <Jason-1006071559590001@66-52-22-36.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article > <DipthotDipthot-FBD374.13472010062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > In article > > <Jason-1006070954070001@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > I still believe she is telling the truth. > > > > Of course you do. The voices in your head told you to. > > She came to our church and gave her testimony. She was a teenage girl. The > other students teased her because she limped when she walked. That is the > reason she asked God to heal her. She wanted to have a normal life. Is > there anything wrong with a teenage girl wanting to have a normal life? What about those people in places where having a life beyond 15 is normally too much to ask for? > The beauty contests came later in her life. She knows that she would never > have won any of those beauty contests if God had not healed her. As a > result of becoming Miss America, many doors were opened to her. She has > witnessed to thousands of people. Or, it could all be a delusion. Repetition is not evidence. I'll say it again. Repetition is not evidence. Understand? No? Maybe one more time. Repetition is not evidence. > I could not help but laugh when someone > told me that she lied about the healing. Or, she's just as deluded as you are. There's no way of telling until reliable evidence is presented. Or you are still feeding us a line. Ever hear of the phrase "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? Think about it. Of course, you have yet to provide 'ordinary' evidence. > Of couse, she is telling the truth. See above. > Do you think that she faked a limp so that she could later claim > that she was healed? That kind of stuff is commonly known to have happened. I won't address this story of your seriously unless you can provide a reliable, corroborating source with no bias toward believing that some sort of "miracle" happened. You have proven yourself highly unreliable. You have admitted that you willingly swallow lies when you "respect" the liar. So try again. > The bottom line is that atheists would never believe > that she was healed by God even if she produced a mountain of physical > evidence to prove it. The bottom line is that you have not produced PIECE ONE of physical evidence... you've just repeated the same story and asked stupid questions. "A girl at my church" sets up warning flags. > The reason is because a healing by God does not > "fit" their belief system. Liar. You know that you have not produced one tiny shred of reliable, empirical evidence that this story is even partly true. > However, they need no evidence to believe that > a single cell (example: bacteria) evolved into a single animal cell (with > DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). More lies about science. Nice work, dimwit. Care to try again? -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:41:28 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: - Refer: <obpuj4-umv.ln1@spanky.localhost.net> >[snips] > >On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:02:19 -0700, Jason wrote: > >>> That wasn't the question. You are a known liar, and you hold up as >>> respect-worthy other known liars, meaning that nobody can take anything >>> you say as valid. Since you are, in fact, known to associate with known >>> liars and even accept lying as perfectly acceptable behavior, this >>> suggests that anyone you report on may well also be just as much of a liar >>> as you or your other cohorts. >>> >>> Hence the question - why should we believe her ? >> >> Because she is telling the truth. > >And you have proven this how, exactly? > >Oh, right, you skipped that step and went straight to absolute >unquestioning belief without any evidence at all. > >And you wonder why we think you're an idiot. I know that he is an idiot. Based on overwhelming evidence. -- Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 In article <1181533728.193830.191840@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > On Jun 10, 8:47 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1181528064.340925.207...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 11, 3:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article > > > > <DipthotDipthot-421910.10183210062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > In article > > > > > <Jason-0906072006580...@66-52-22-86.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-E33034.16000109062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > <Jason-0906071313520...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-294445.11505509062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > > <Jason-0906071219110...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What caused that leg to get longer if God did not heal her? > > > > > > > > > > > Ahem. > > > > > > > > > > > You are assuming that we accept your telling of the story. > > > > > > > > > > > I, for one, do not. Provide an authoritative source to > > support it. > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, my position is one of doubt. > > > > > > > > > > Do you believe the lady (a former Miss America) was lying when she > > > > stated > > > > > > > > that she was healed by God? > > > > > > > > > Was I unclear? I repeat: You are assuming that we accept your telling > > > > > > > of the alleged story. > > > > > > > > > > If not, how do you explain why her legs are now the same size? > > > > > > > > > I guess I was unclear. > > > > > > > > > Look, fellow: You have not proven yourself a reliable source of fact > > > > > > > about anything. You have shown yourself to be a fan of liars. Why > > > > > > > should anyone trust that you have a story about a beauty queen and her > > > > > > > magic leg? > > > > > > > > I copy and pasted the story from a website. > > > > > > > Ooooooh, I am impressed. If it's from a Web site, then it must be true. > > > > > I read about the Flying Spaghetti Monster from a Web site too. (May you > > > > > be blessed by his noodly appendages.) > > > > > > >http://www.venganza.org/ > > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > > > If you think that I am not > > > > > > telling the truth about Cheryl Prewitt--google that name. > > > > > > > It ain't my job to do your proving, boy. > > > > > > > Besides, elsewhere in this thread, someone already did said search and > > > > > learned that you are a lying idiot. Or extremely gullible. > > > > > > > Or both. > > > > > > > > One of the of > > > > > > members of this newsgroup told me that he googled her name and the > > result > > > > > > was over 700 websites. Cheryl Prewitt is a former Miss America. > > > > > > > But that poster was still not impressed by your claims about a divine > > > > > leg-lengthening. > > > > > > > Of course you chose not to mention that. > > > > > > > I wonder why. > > > > > > I am no longer shocked when atheists do not believe the testimonies of > > > > people that have been healed by God. Atheists do not believe there is a > > > > God so therefore they automatically reject any evidence (testimonies) > > > > indicating that God was responsible for the healings. Those same atheists > > > > automatically believe that a single cell (example: bacteria) evolved into > > > > single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). They > > > > don't even need evidence in order to believe it since it fits their belief > > > > system. > > > > > Again you neglected to look up and confirm that evidence for this > > > process DOES exist and is well known to biologists. > > > > > Martin > > > > Martin, > > I have a question for you. Has an experiment like this been done: > > > > The scientists place bacteria (and nothing else) on a lab table. They can > > mix any elements or combinations of elements with the bacteria. They can > > mix amino acids with the bacteria. > > I mentioned the above items since they were probably present before life > > forms were on this earth. > > > > Have the scientists done an experiment like the one mentioned above? If > > so, was the result: bacteria that evolved into an: > > > > Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). > > > > If so, refer me to a website that mentions the experiment. > > > > I may ask a biology professor at the local state college this same question. > > You forgot to include a crucial element: millions of years of time, > because that's how long it took in the first place. Please get back > to me when enough time has passed for the experiment to be valid. > > - Bob T. But are you 100% sure that it happened that way? Please don't state: "We now have animal cells so that is evidence that it happened that way." NO--that is not evidence that it happened that way. These are two other ways that it could have happened: 1. Intelligent Design: God created some plants; some animals and mankind. After the creation process was finished, evolution kicked in. Based on the last paragraph of Darwin's famous book--that it what he seemed to believe. 2. Ancient astronauts--millions of years ago, they visited this planet and left behind plants; animals and humans. Evolution kicked in. You already know which of the three options are the one that I would choose. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 In article <DipthotDipthot-6093DF.21080710062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > In article > <Jason-1006071559590001@66-52-22-36.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article > > <DipthotDipthot-FBD374.13472010062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > In article > > > <Jason-1006070954070001@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > I still believe she is telling the truth. > > > > > > Of course you do. The voices in your head told you to. > > > > She came to our church and gave her testimony. She was a teenage girl. The > > other students teased her because she limped when she walked. That is the > > reason she asked God to heal her. She wanted to have a normal life. Is > > there anything wrong with a teenage girl wanting to have a normal life? > > What about those people in places where having a life beyond 15 is > normally too much to ask for? > > > The beauty contests came later in her life. She knows that she would never > > have won any of those beauty contests if God had not healed her. As a > > result of becoming Miss America, many doors were opened to her. She has > > witnessed to thousands of people. > > Or, it could all be a delusion. Repetition is not evidence. > > I'll say it again. > > Repetition is not evidence. > > Understand? > > No? > > Maybe one more time. > > Repetition is not evidence. > > > I could not help but laugh when someone > > told me that she lied about the healing. > > Or, she's just as deluded as you are. There's no way of telling until > reliable evidence is presented. > > Or you are still feeding us a line. > > Ever hear of the phrase "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary > evidence"? > > Think about it. > > Of course, you have yet to provide 'ordinary' evidence. > > > Of couse, she is telling the truth. > > See above. > > > Do you think that she faked a limp so that she could later claim > > that she was healed? > > That kind of stuff is commonly known to have happened. > > I won't address this story of your seriously unless you can provide a > reliable, corroborating source with no bias toward believing that some > sort of "miracle" happened. > > You have proven yourself highly unreliable. You have admitted that you > willingly swallow lies when you "respect" the liar. > > So try again. > > > The bottom line is that atheists would never believe > > that she was healed by God even if she produced a mountain of physical > > evidence to prove it. > > The bottom line is that you have not produced PIECE ONE of physical > evidence... you've just repeated the same story and asked stupid > questions. > > "A girl at my church" sets up warning flags. > > > The reason is because a healing by God does not > > "fit" their belief system. > > Liar. You know that you have not produced one tiny shred of reliable, > empirical evidence that this story is even partly true. > > > However, they need no evidence to believe that > > a single cell (example: bacteria) evolved into a single animal cell (with > > DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). > > More lies about science. > > Nice work, dimwit. Care to try again? Cheryl Prewitt could provide a mountain of physical evidence and you still would not believe that God healed her. You believe evidence that supports your belief system and do not believe evidence that does not support your belief system. That is the reason you believe that life can evolve from non-life and do not believe that God healed Cheryl Prewitt. Jason Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 10 Jun., 15:56, Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On 10 Jun., 02:03, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > Since God created the world and all life forms--God is indirectly > > > responsible for everything that happens--even if it is evil. Does that > > > mean that a murderer can blame God for the murder--I don't think so. > > Jason will change his mind if he ever snaps and kills ten people in > one day as he's threatened to do. > > Martin It is amazing that he (and so many others) can serenely contradict themselves, apparently without it bothering them in the least. He tells us that god is responsible for everything, but he is not responsible for any crimes committed. He will, no doubt, attempt to justify it by mentioning free will, which, of course, also contradicts god being responsible for everything. A whirling dervish has nothing on Jason. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 10 Jun., 19:02, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4gu9b$a4...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <mkorj4-ugf....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> [snips] > > > >> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:01:13 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > >>>> Thus to assert that space or time exist in or before the > singularity is to > > >>>> attempt to impose rules which apply _within_ a system, to something which > > >>>> is not, itself, part of that system and for which there is no > foundation n > > >>>> which to build a case that it, too, follows the same or similar rules. > > >>> Martin told me something about this in one of his posts. > > >> So have I. The question is when are you going to turn on your brain and > > >> let that information filter in, then process it and deal with the > > >> consequences of it? > > > > Kelsey, > > > In response to another post, I decided to google this term: BEFORE THE BIG > > > BANG. I did not write down the number of sites that showed up but it was > > > over 10. I copied and pasted this from one of the sites that I found: > > > > What happened > > > before the Big Bang long has frustrated cosmologists, both amateur and > > > professional. > > > Though Einstein's theory of general relativity does an excellent job of > > > describing the universe almost back to its beginning, near the Big Bang > > > matter becomes so dense that relativity breaks down, says Penn State > > > physicist Abhay Ashtekar. "Beyond that point, we need to apply quantum > > > tools that were not available to Einstein." > > > > Now Ashtekar and two of his post-doctoral researchers, Tomasz Pawlowski > > > and Parmpreet Singh, have done just that. Using a theory called loop > > > quantum gravity, they have developed a mathematical model that skates > > > right up to the Big Bang -- and steps through it. On the other side, > > > Ashtekar says, exists another universe with space-time geometry similar to > > > our own, except that instead of expanding, it is shrinking. "In place of a > > > classical Big Bang, there is in fact a quantum Bounce," he says. > > > > Loop quantum gravity, one of the leading approaches to the unification of > > > general relativity with quantum physics, was pioneered at the Institute of > > > Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State, which Ashtekar directs. > > > The theory posits that space-time geometry itself has a discrete "atomic" > > > structure, Ashtekar explains. Instead of the familiar space-time > > > continuum, the fabric of space is made up of one-dimensional quantum > > > threads. Near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn, and these > > > quantum properties cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than > > > attractive. > > > A few points. > > > 1: That still doesn't help your ideas of "can a time traveller go back > > in time, could they observe the big bang?" idea since there's still no > > way to be OUTSIDE of the universe to observe it. > > > 2: That doesn't show that anything could survive intact through the big > > bang (so we still can't travel past it back in time.) > > > 3: This idea is still in the very initial stages of being developed and > > might not even pan out. > > > 4: Many mathematical models can be run in reverse and yet not reflect > > reality. Relativity equations don't prohibit time travel, for example, > > but there's other models that show time travel is probably unlikely. > > > 5: This actually eliminates any need for your god since it gives a valid > > answer to "what caused the big bang to 'bang'?" Are you REALLY so sure > > you want to eliminate the last gap your "god of the gaps" existed in? > > People in this newsgroup seemed to believe that time and physics did not > exist prior to the Big Bang. They implied that anyone that believed that > did not know anything about science. I googled "What Happened Before the > Big Bang" and found out that several different experts believed that time > and physics did exist prior to the Big Bang.- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 10 Jun., 21:16, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <9ijtj4-umv....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason snip > > > In other words, there is NO evidence that animal cells evolved > > > from bacteria. However, that does not stop athiests and the advocates of > > > evolution and abiogenesis from believing that it happened. > > > I'm not aware of anyone who is confused that bacteria are animal cells, > > other than apparently you. > > I was referring to these two steps: > > STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) > STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction) Yes, you are referring to your ignorant understanding of evolution. > > Testimony is considered as evidence in court. It is not considered evidence in science. That has already been pointed out to you, and you have, true to form, ignored it. Someone pointed out that > physical evidence (eg gun, bloody knife) is more important than testimony. > I agreed with that person that made that statement. > > Let's say that the neighbors in an apartment building hear a married > couple having an argument. They hear the husband say, "I'm going to kill > you". The argument ends and the police are not called. The following day, > the wife was shot as she was walking home from work. The husband took a > shower after he shot his wife and washed his hands with bleach to remove > any evidence. There were no witnesses present when the husband shot his > wife. The police are not able to find a gun when they search the apartment > and all surrounding areas. They arrest the husband and charge him with the > murder. All of the neighbors provide testimony at the murder trial. > > The jury members convict the husband of first degree murder--based upon > the testimonies of the people that heard the argument and heard him say, > "I'm going to kill you." > > Do you now understand that TESTIMONY is evidence--even if there is no > physical evidence? Only physical evidence is acceptable in science. A woman simply stating that she believes there was a miracle is expressing an opinion. The fact that she does not understand how she was healed does not mean it was a miracle. If nobody around her understands it, that also does not prove it is a miracle. And (this may be hardest for you to accept) the fact that she is a former Miss America is totally irrelevant. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 10 Jun., 21:39, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article > <DipthotDipthot-421910.10183210062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > snip > > But that poster was still not impressed by your claims about a divine > > leg-lengthening. > > > Of course you chose not to mention that. > > > I wonder why. > > I am no longer shocked when atheists do not believe the testimonies of > people that have been healed by God. Atheists do not believe there is a > God so therefore they automatically reject any evidence (testimonies) > indicating that God was responsible for the healings. Those same atheists > automatically believe that a single cell (example: bacteria) evolved into > single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). They > don't even need evidence in order to believe it since it fits their belief > system. I am no longer amazed that you post such utter nonsense as the above. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 10 Jun., 22:07, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1181481347.104079.235...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On 9 Jun., 22:30, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <p0vl639ek05er1cb5eelma2rjiesja4...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch snip > > > Are you stating that Cheryl Prewitt (a former Miss America) is lying about > > > the healing? > > > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > No, he is saying that you have presented no evidence for the claim. > > Whether she believes it or not has no relevance. Furthermore, just > > out of curiosity, why do you keep repeating that she is a former Miss > > America? By the way I healed her. My testimony is evidence. > > I used the term "former Miss America" because she is not the current Miss > America. Would you refer to her as Miss America? You have repeatedly mentioned it. Never mind though; I didn't expect an answer - certainly not a sensible one. > > Cheryl Prewitt and the thousands of Christians that have heard her > testimony believe that she was healed by God. That does not make it true. >Those people, like yourself, > that do not believe her testimony will not cause Cheryl to lose any sleep. > Dr. Gish and Dr. Morris also have probably not lost any sleep over the > fact that atheists don't agree with them. And that is irrelevant. Their personal opinions about atheists have no bearing on the issue, nor do my opinion. You have no evidence for your miracle claim, and no, testimony is not evidence. If I testified that there is no god, you could quite correctly point out that I have no evidence for that claim; there is no rational reason for not applying the same standards to someone claiming that she was miraculously cured . Clearly you accept her testimony and would reject mine, meaning that you do not believe her because of what you consider to be evidence but because you want to believe her. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 10 Jun., 22:49, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <smjo63luhj802uvt69su43het7vi2b1...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:57:36 -0700, in alt.atheism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-1006071257370...@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <bg8o63lsgkbuk6ioqc8gr4lcjga1ror...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:47:58 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> <Jason-1006070947590...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >In article <1181469394.462447.51...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> >> On Jun 10, 1:55 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> >> > Since testimony is considered as evidence in court, I also > consider the > > >> >> > testimony of Cheryl Prewitt as evidence. If you do not consider her > > >> >> > testimony as evidence, that is your choice. Have you provided in > evidence > > >> >> > that indicates that it is possible for bacteria to naturally > evolve into > > >> >> > an animal cell? > > > >> >> Physical evidence trumps testimony, Jason. It's the only thing that > > >> >> can be double checked and verified. > > > >> >> Martin > > > >> >That is true but would you acknowledge that testimony is also evidence? > > > >> Made up stories are not evidence. > > > >Is a testimony evidence? > > > Once again, your question demands a misleading answer. > > > People are not always allowed to testify in court about what they want > > to testify about. Ms. Prewitt's opinion about how her leg got longer, if > > in fact it did, is one such claim that would not be allowed in court. > > > Actual, corroborated, eyewitness testimony is allowed, but physical > > evidence will override claims of personal experience. > > > Science, of course, does not use testimony as evidence. > > Cheryl Prewitt could probably produce the physical evidence such as the > X-Rays that were done in relation to accident and surgery. For example, a > leg bone may have been crushed. The doctor probably removed about two > inches of bone. "Probably" does not quite cut it. > > I doubt that physical evidence or even the doctor's written statement > would convince atheists that she was healed by God. Your opinion about atheists is not relevant. You still have no evidence to offer. One poster actually > told me that the bone grew two inches naturally--that made me laugh. > Atheists do not believe there is a God so it's only logical to conclude > that they will not accept or believe any evidence that God healed her. On > the other hand, they will believe that a single cell (example: bacteria) > evolved into a single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual > reproduction).- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 10 Jun., 23:36, "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > news:Jason-1006071257370001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > > In article <bg8o63lsgkbuk6ioqc8gr4lcjga1ror...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:47:58 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-1006070947590...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <1181469394.462447.51...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> >Martin > >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> >> On Jun 10, 1:55 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> >> > Since testimony is considered as evidence in court, I also consider > >> >> > the > >> >> > testimony of Cheryl Prewitt as evidence. If you do not consider her > >> >> > testimony as evidence, that is your choice. Have you provided in > >> >> > evidence > >> >> > that indicates that it is possible for bacteria to naturally evolve > >> >> > into > >> >> > an animal cell? > > >> >> Physical evidence trumps testimony, Jason. It's the only thing that > >> >> can be double checked and verified. > > >> >> Martin > > >> >That is true but would you acknowledge that testimony is also evidence? > > >> Made up stories are not evidence. > > > Is a testimony evidence? > > I'm sure as savvy as you are you have heard the old adage, extraordinary > claims require extraordinary evidence. No Jason, for someone to claim such a > ridiculous story is true requires more than their oral testimony.- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1006072012400001@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <i7luj4-umv.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:22:44 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> > A testimony is evidence in court houses in America almost every week >> >> > day. >> >> > Her testimony is evidence. >> >> >> >> It is to certain things Jason, but not to stories such as the one she >> >> is >> >> telling. >> > >> > It's good enough for most of the Christians that have heard her >> > testimony. >> >> Only to the ones who are stupid or dishonest. Which are you? Oh right, >> you're both. > > Are you stating that every Christian that has believed her testimony are > stupid or dishonest? That's a good possibility. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 11 Jun., 00:59, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article > <DipthotDipthot-FBD374.13472010062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > In article > > <Jason-1006070954070...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > I still believe she is telling the truth. > > > Of course you do. The voices in your head told you to. > > She came to our church and gave her testimony. She was a teenage girl. The > other students teased her because she limped when she walked. That is the > reason she asked God to heal her. She wanted to have a normal life. Is > there anything wrong with a teenage girl wanting to have a normal life? > The beauty contests came later in her life. She knows that she would never > have won any of those beauty contests if God had not healed her. As a > result of becoming Miss America, many doors were opened to her. She has > witnessed to thousands of people. I could not help but laugh when someone > told me that she lied about the healing. Of couse, she is telling the > truth. Do you think that she faked a limp so that she could later claim > that she was healed? The bottom line is that atheists would never believe > that she was healed by God even if she produced a mountain of physical > evidence to prove it. The reason is because a healing by God does not > "fit" their belief system. However, they need no evidence to believe that > a single cell (example: bacteria) evolved into a single animal cell (with > DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction). > Jason Except nobody said that except you. Such lies are pointless unless told to people who have not read the posts. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 11 Jun., 01:05, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <0%Zai.1096$R9....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1006071256480001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <70mtj4-umv....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> [snips] > > > >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:48:39 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > >> > Kelsey, > > >> > In response to another post, I decided to google this term: BEFORE THE > > >> > BIG > > >> > BANG. > > > >> And you found one as-yet unverified mathematical model. One which, I > > >> should note, says that if the concept of "before the BB" is established > > >> as > > >> meaningful, it tosses you right into another universe... thus negating > > >> the > > >> need for God to explain the BB or the cosmic egg. > > > >> Bully for you; you've just removed yet another gap to sneak God into. > > >> Not > > >> sure the point you were trying to achieve, but somehow I suspect that > > >> wasn't it. > > > > Do you still believe that no experts believe that time did not exist prior > > > to the Big Bang? > > > I still know the scientific consensus is that there was no time before the > > big bang. > > That is true. There will be even better theories in the years to come. > Scientists know that the only way to win a Nobel Prize is by coming up > with a newer and better theory.- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 11 Jun., 01:21, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <29_ai.1100$R9....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1006071257370001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <bg8o63lsgkbuk6ioqc8gr4lcjga1ror...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:47:58 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> <Jason-1006070947590...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >In article <1181469394.462447.51...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > >> >Martin > > >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> >> On Jun 10, 1:55 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> >> > Since testimony is considered as evidence in court, I also consider > > >> >> > the > > >> >> > testimony of Cheryl Prewitt as evidence. If you do not consider her > > >> >> > testimony as evidence, that is your choice. Have you provided in > > >> >> > evidence > > >> >> > that indicates that it is possible for bacteria to naturally evolve > > >> >> > into > > >> >> > an animal cell? > > > >> >> Physical evidence trumps testimony, Jason. It's the only thing that > > >> >> can be double checked and verified. > > > >> >> Martin > > > >> >That is true but would you acknowledge that testimony is also evidence? > > > >> Made up stories are not evidence. > > > > Is a testimony evidence? > > > I'm sure as savvy as you are you have heard the old adage, extraordinary > > claims require extraordinary evidence. No Jason, for someone to claim such a > > ridiculous story is true requires more than their oral testimony. > > That is an excellent answer. If Cheryl Prewitt produced all of her medical > records (eg X Rays) and written statements from the medical staff that > were present when the doctor removed two inches of a leg bone--do you > believe that atheists would conceed that God healed her? > > My answer is NO--the reason--it does not fit their "belief system" to > believe that God healed her. They don't believe in God. They believe the > evidence that supports their belief system and do NOT accept or believe > evidence that does not support their belief system.- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1006072104110001@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1181528337.630645.326210@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 11, 4:49 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <smjo63luhj802uvt69su43het7vi2b1...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > > On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:57:36 -0700, in alt.atheism >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > <Jason-1006071257370...@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> > > >In article <bg8o63lsgkbuk6ioqc8gr4lcjga1ror...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> > > >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:47:58 -0700, in alt.atheism >> > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > >> <Jason-1006070947590...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> > > >> >In article > <1181469394.462447.51...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > > >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> On Jun 10, 1:55 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> > Since testimony is considered as evidence in court, I also >> > consider the >> > > >> >> > testimony of Cheryl Prewitt as evidence. If you do not > consider her >> > > >> >> > testimony as evidence, that is your choice. Have you provided >> > > >> >> > in >> > evidence >> > > >> >> > that indicates that it is possible for bacteria to naturally >> > evolve into >> > > >> >> > an animal cell? >> > >> > > >> >> Physical evidence trumps testimony, Jason. It's the only thing >> > > >> >> that >> > > >> >> can be double checked and verified. >> > >> > > >> >> Martin >> > >> > > >> >That is true but would you acknowledge that testimony is also > evidence? >> > >> > > >> Made up stories are not evidence. >> > >> > > >Is a testimony evidence? >> > >> > > Once again, your question demands a misleading answer. >> > >> > > People are not always allowed to testify in court about what they >> > > want >> > > to testify about. Ms. Prewitt's opinion about how her leg got longer, >> > > if >> > > in fact it did, is one such claim that would not be allowed in court. >> > >> > > Actual, corroborated, eyewitness testimony is allowed, but physical >> > > evidence will override claims of personal experience. >> > >> > > Science, of course, does not use testimony as evidence. >> > >> > Cheryl Prewitt could probably produce the physical evidence such as the >> > X-Rays that were done in relation to accident and surgery. For example, >> > a >> > leg bone may have been crushed. The doctor probably removed about two >> > inches of bone. >> >> Amazing. You are now admitting you don't know the details of the >> case. >> >> If nothing was removed then nothing grew back. I hurt my hand a few >> years ago. I got better. I feel down and hurt my side a year or so >> ago. I got better. My wife broke her arm while she was cleaning. >> She got better. Cheryl Prewitt got hurt in a car accident. She got >> better. And yet you are talking as though this is some great mystery. >> >> Martin > > Martin, > I heard her testimony but as you know--my memory is bad--statin related > memory problems. I can no longer spell words that I once could easily > spell. I do remember that she said that her leg was damaged in a car > accident. The doctors had to remove a portion of the leg bone which was > the reason one leg was two inches shorter than the other leg. In the case > of your injuries and the injury of your wife--sections of bone did not > have to be removed--unless you left something out of your story. You are > intelligent enough to know that all broken bones are not the same--if the > bone is crushed--the bad section of bone is removed and the remaining two > sections are put back together with pins. In her case, about 2 inches of > leg bone was removed. My friend lost about 5 inches of leg bone as a > result of an injury. He wears a platform shoe on one foot and walks with a > limp. > jason If you she said is true and what you believe is true there should be physical evidence of this event. Has she presented any evidence whatsoever? You know Jason. like x-ray's before and after. This would be such a simple thing to present at her many 'testimonies'. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 11 Jun., 01:22, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <6i_ai.1111$R9....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-0906072014530001@66-52-22-86.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <8kdm63t5jf41ougrgl7o47pmd7ams2o...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:06:02 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> <Jason-0906071706030...@66-52-22-81.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >In article <0g9m63t8iakctu9orvkjpa1msg390da...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:06:01 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> >> <Jason-0906071506020...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >> >In article <li3m63djdskll0r6g1am2pr4mm92vel...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > >> >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> >> >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 14:13:26 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >> >> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> >> >> <Jason-0906071413260...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >> >> >In article <j8vl63dgeb7gaek2iucf548hn3td0kq...@4ax.com>, Free > > >> >> >> >Lunch > > >> >> >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> >> >> >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 12:19:10 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > >> >> >> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> >> >> >> <Jason-0906071219110...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >> >> >> ... > > > >> >> >> >> >What caused that leg to get longer if God did not heal her? > > > >> >> >> >> Natural processes. > > > >> >> >> >> God has never claimed credit for anything. People make > > >> >> >> >> unsupported > > >> >> >> >> assertions on His behalf. > > > >> >> >> >Do you have any evidence that anyone else (other than Cheryl > > > Prewitt) has > > >> >> >> >had a leg that was 2 or more inches shorter than the other leg > > > grow to the > > >> >> >> >point that it was identical to the size of the other leg. I know > > > someone > > >> >> >> >that has one leg that is shorter than the other leg. One of his > > > shoes is a > > >> >> >> >platform shoe. Despite wearing that special shoe, he limps when > > > he walks. > > >> >> >> >Why has his short leg not grown to the point that it is identical > > > to the > > >> >> >> >size of his other leg? > > > >> >> >> I don't have evidence that Cheryl Prewitt had a leg that was 2 > > >> >> >> inches > > >> >> >> shorter and grew to the same length. I have an assertion about > > >> >> >> something > > >> >> >> that happened under what are described as unusual circumstances. > > > >> >> >> If God did this, as you assert, why is He so evil to other people? > > >> >> >> Why > > >> >> >> does He refuse to answer their prayers? Why doesn't He allow you to > > >> >> >> learn about science? > > > >> >> >Do you believe that Cheryl Prewitt is lying about her healing? > > > >> >> I have no evidence that she actually said this or that anything about > > >> >> it > > >> >> was true. > > > >> >This information was taken from the report that I posted yesterday: > > > >> That's not the same as evidence. Don't keep repeating it. I asked for > > >> evidence. You've offered stories. > > > >> >> >> >After a car accident at age 11, Cheryl Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 11 Jun., 01:28, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <hpso631b7f6gshd7pap15la4h7shjbu...@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > > > > > > > > <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > In alt.atheism On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:28:02 -0700, J...@nospam.com > > (Jason) let us all know that: > > > >In article <pb1o63pqlmfbbjub4g86db20g119obq...@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > > ><ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > > >> In alt.atheism On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:14:26 -0700, J...@nospam.com > > >> (Jason) let us all know that: > > > >> >In article <12pm63dcjnuunio4aknb4i84ruo5v05...@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > > >> ><ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > > >> >> In alt.atheism On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 13:05:09 -0700, J...@nospam.com > > >> >> (Jason) let us all know that: > > > >> >> >I will tell you the reason I mentioned the 12 percent figure in several > > >> >posts. > > >> >> >People (in various posts) were attempting to marginalize me. People in > > >> >> >various posts stated or at least implied that most people believed that > > >> >> >mankind evolved from lower life forms without involvement from > God. I knew > > >> >> >that was not true but had no data to back it up. When I found out that > > >> >> >only 12 percent of Americans believed that mankind evolved from > lower life > > >> >> >forms without involvement from God, I decided to post the figure > everytime > > >> >> >someone else attempted to marginalize me and by opinions related to > > >> >> >abiogenesis. > > > >> >> That's just means that 12% of the people are fucking morons. > > > >> >Don, > > >> >I agree with you. > > >> >Jason > > > >> Hey--wow. I get a response from you when I throw out some bait > > >> for you. Look at that. Of course, you realize, I don't think that 12% > > >> of the people are morons, but it's just something to get you to > > >> respond. > > > >> Now then: why haven't you responded to my answers to those 20 > > >> questions? And why do you think the number of people who believe > > >> something has anything to do with the truth of that thing? > > > >I thanked you for responding. > > > And what do you have to say about my responses? > > > > The reason I posted the 12 percent number > > >was because several people tried to marginalize me. > > > You are. > > > Don > > 12 percent agree with you related to one aspect of evolution theory. > 88 percent agree with me related to that same aspect of evolution theory..- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1006072010090001@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <iI1bi.1530$R9.1245@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-1006071758360001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <tceuj4-umv.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 12:36:06 -0400, Mike wrote: >> >> >> >> > Strange that there's so little information on such an amazing event. >> >> >> >> Isn't it, though? I mean, really, if there were an >> >> honest-to-goodness, >> >> real-live, provable case of a miracle healing, why isn't every >> >> Christian >> >> in the world screaming this from here to the end of time, as some sort >> >> of >> >> absolute proof of God? >> >> >> >> Oh, right, because it's a steaming load of crap. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Actually, God has healed lots of people. If you google "miracle >> > healings", >> > you will find out that I am correct. >> >> If he has, there are hundreds of millions that he didn't heal. So why >> would >> we think that any person is more deserving than another person. If you >> can >> answer that one you will be the first. > > I will answer it but already know that you will not be satisfied with my > answer. There is a scripture in the Bible but I don't know the exact > verse. It says something like this: "God's ways are not our ways." In > other words, in many cases, it's impossible to understand God's ways or > God's thinking processes. For example, two people can request healing but > only one of the two people would be healed. God knows the reason for his > action but it's impossible for us to know the reason. The most we can do > is guess. For example, the lack of faith in God's power may be the reason. > Other possible reasons: unforgiven sin; failing to forgive people; not > asking God for a healing. I have a better answer than that but I already know that you will not be satisfied with my answer. God doesn't exist. That is the shortest and simplest answer. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 11 Jun., 01:32, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <Ek_ai.1113$R...@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-0906072006580001@66-52-22-86.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article > > > <DipthotDipthot-E33034.16000109062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > >> In article > > >> <Jason-0906071313520...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > In article > > >> > <DipthotDipthot-294445.11505509062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > >> > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > >> > > In article > > >> > > <Jason-0906071219110...@66-52-22-50.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > What caused that leg to get longer if God did not heal her? > > > >> > > Ahem. > > > >> > > You are assuming that we accept your telling of the story. > > > >> > > I, for one, do not. Provide an authoritative source to support it. > > >> > > Otherwise, my position is one of doubt. > > > >> > Do you believe the lady (a former Miss America) was lying when she > > >> > stated > > >> > that she was healed by God? > > > >> Was I unclear? I repeat: You are assuming that we accept your telling > > >> of the alleged story. > > > >> > If not, how do you explain why her legs are now the same size? > > > >> I guess I was unclear. > > > >> Look, fellow: You have not proven yourself a reliable source of fact > > >> about anything. You have shown yourself to be a fan of liars. Why > > >> should anyone trust that you have a story about a beauty queen and her > > >> magic leg? > > > > I copy and pasted the story from a website. If you think that I am not > > > telling the truth about Cheryl Prewitt--google that name. One of the of > > > members of this newsgroup told me that he googled her name and the result > > > was over 700 websites. Cheryl Prewitt is a former Miss America. > > > It is her story that lacks evidence that I question. I would ask for > > evidence from anyone who told me such a story. > > I posted a report related to her testimony--that is all of the evidence > that I have. If you want more evidence, visit those 700 website. It would > be waste of time for me to search for medical evidence since atheists > still would not be convinced that God healed her since they don't believe > in God.- You also have testimony that others did the healing, but you will not believe even if you were given more evidence. See how it works? No, I didn't think you would. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 On 11 Jun., 02:55, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f8euj4-umv....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > > > > <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > [snips] > > > On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:55:07 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > >> You forgot to point out how God was involved. > > > >> I assume that is because you have absolutely no evidence that God was > > >> involved. > > > > How do you explain why her legs are now the same size? > > > Because I said they should be, and caused them to magically grow to > > equal length. > > > My proof? The very same you give for your claim that God dunnit > > That is not true. The evidence that she gave to me was her testimony. In > her testimony--she mentioned that God healed her. Her evidence (testimony) > did not mention you or that you had healed her. And his testimony did not say that god healed her. Why is his testimony not evidence? Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could actually provide a sensible response to the above? Pray, maybe god will perform a miracle and make you sane. > > - not a > > > > > single shred. > > > Now, since you believe, absolutely, in claims without a shred of evidence, > > you will, of course, immediately believe that I was, in fact, responsible > > for her healing. Any other course requires that you invalidate your own > > standard of "evidence", namely accepting any half-assed claim that comes > > along as long as there's no justification for doing so. > > > So, which way do you lie? Do you lie by asserting that it really was God, > > just cuz? Do you lie by pretending that her saying it was God means > > anything? Do you lie by invalidating your own position and expecting me > > to demonstrate I was responsible? Or do you pick a different mode of > > lying?- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
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