Guest Ralph Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > > God >> >> > >> >> > > God doesn't exist. >> >> > >> >> > > created mankind, he >> >> > > > gave us free will. >> >> > >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. >> >> > >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. >> >> > >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free >> >> > will, >> >> > many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; sociological >> >> > and >> >> > psychological issues--make sense. For example, I now understand why >> >> > some >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month each >> >> > year >> >> > in >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do terrible >> >> > things such as becoming murderers or rapists. >> >> >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in their >> >> god? >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > Martin, >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to God--but >> > they >> > are wrong. You can find many cases in history where people done >> > terrible >> > things that they believed were pleasing to God--but were not pleasing >> > to >> > God. >> > Jason >> >> Who are you to judge? > > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people on 9/11. So now you can judge? I thought that was the province of your god :-). Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 > > You want to try again. I'll find 10 or 20 more questions for you.- Skjul = > tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Yes, we all know that you are not capable of being embarrassed by your > dishonesty. It is odd that you are proud of it though. Questions for Evolutionists BlueBar 1. Where did the space for the universe come from? 2. Where did matter come from? 3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)? 4. How did matter get so perfectly organized? 5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing? 6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter? 7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself? 8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce? 9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?) 10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.) 11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor? 12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true? 13. When, where, why, and how did: a) Single-celled plants become multicelled? (Where are the two- and threecelled intermediates?) b) Single-celled animals evolve? c) Fish change to amphibians? d) Amphibians change to reptiles? e) Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!) How did the intermediate forms live? 14. When, where, why, how, and from what did: a) Whales evolve? b) Sea horses evolve? c) Bats evolve? d) Eyes evolve? e) Ears evolve? f) Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve? 15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)? a) The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <7VAbi.1874$L8.1297@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206071021200001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1181646992.799917.21600@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> On 12 Jun., 02:47, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1181601347.999940.35...@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > > In article > >> > > > <Jason-1006071559590...@66-52-22-36.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >> > > >> > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > She has > >> > > > > witnessed to thousands of people. > >> > > >> > > Wow. She's lied to a lot of people then. I find that completely and > >> > > utterly morally reprehensible. It is also typical Godbot behaviour. > >> > > >> > > Martin > >> > > >> > the alternative is "she told the truth to a lot of people then." > >> > >> For which you have absolutely no objective evidence. You have even > >> pretty well made it clear that you believe it because you want to. If > >> one is a rational being, objective evidence is something that has to > >> be accepted, whether we like what it supports or not; but you believe > >> because you want to and, supposedly, reject evidence that does not > >> support what you like. This makes you irrational and dishonest. > > > > Do you have objective evidence that time and physics did not exist prior > > to the Big Bang? > > Mathematics says it didn't. > > > Do you have objective evidence that these are two of the steps involved in > > the evolution of mankind: > > STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) > > STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual > > reproduction). > > Those aren't the steps of evolution. Why do you continue to be so ignorant? > > Do you have any evidence whatsoever that your god exists and if he does > exist has he always existed and will he exist forever? Have any experiments been done which have indicated that a single cell (bacteria) has evolved into a single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction)? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <c5Bbi.1880$L8.1081@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1006071822330001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <vsduj4-umv.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> [snips] > >> > >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:14:53 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> > >> > A testimony is evidence in court houses in America almost every week > >> > day. > >> > Her testimony is evidence. > >> > >> Even in courts, testimony is regarded as the least reliable source, as > >> people lie, forget, misremember and on and on and on. They also tend to > >> say things that are simply not supported by fact. > >> > >> A perfect example of that last bit is you - or her - claiming her leg was > >> healed by God. Yes, fine, her leg healed, we'll buy that for the nonce, > >> but you haven't demonstrated that God even exists, so any testimony that > >> it was healed _by God_ is simply not supported by the facts, and thus is > >> discarded. > >> > >> Feel free to demonstrate God exists. Until you do, you have no basis to > >> claim he did anything. > > > > And in some states, people place there hands on Bibles and swear to tell > > the truth. In those states, why would anyone need to spend time proving > > that God exists. If there was a court case related to this issue, Cheryl > > Prewitt could produce her medical records (eg X-Rays). All of medical > > staff that were present when a doctor removed two inches of a leg bone > > would testify. Showing a film of the Miss America beauty contest--would > > prove that she was walking gracefully and was not wearing a platform shoe > > on one foot. > > > > If it was a rural area of a state in the Bible Belt--the jury would rule > > that Cheryl was telling the truth. > > They would do that without a trial. Is that fair? Is that right? I would > certainly hate to have someone of your intellect on a jury, to judge me if I > were innocent. I have been selected for jury duty and I live in California. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <OIAbi.1872$L8.223@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206071030510001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1181644398.763698.134870@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> On 12 Jun., 02:37, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1181603881.651499.322...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > On Jun 12, 1:05 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > In article <1181558587.524968.174...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > >> > > >> > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> > > > > On 10 Jun., 15:56, Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > > On 10 Jun., 02:03, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > > > > Since God created the world and all life forms--God is > > indirectly > >> > > > > > > > responsible for everything that happens--even if it is > >> > > > > > > > evil. > >> > Does that > >> > > > > > > > mean that a murderer can blame God for the murder--I don't > > think so. > >> > > >> > > > > > Jason will change his mind if he ever snaps and kills ten > >> > > > > > people in > >> > > > > > one day as he's threatened to do. > >> > > >> > > > > It is amazing that he (and so many others) can serenely > >> > > > > contradict > >> > > > > themselves, apparently without it bothering them in the least. > >> > > > > He > >> > > > > tells us that god is responsible for everything, but he is not > >> > > > > responsible for any crimes committed. He will, no doubt, attempt > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > justify it by mentioning free will, which, of course, also > >> > > > > contradicts > >> > > > > god being responsible for everything. A whirling dervish has > >> > > > > nothing > >> > > > > on Jason. > >> > > >> > > > There is no contradiction. I will simplify it for you by giving you > >> > > > an > >> > > > example. Parents have a son that commits a murder when he is 30 > > years old. > >> > > > Will the son or the parents be sent to prison? The answer is that > > the son > >> > > > will be sent to prison since he was guilty of the murder. Yes, the > > parents > >> > > > were indirectly responsible since the murder would not have been > > committed > >> > > > if the parents had not had that son. > >> > > >> > > But you're not claiming the parents to be omniscient or ominipotent. > >> > > Nor have you established that anybody has free will to go beyond what > >> > > their instincts and memories would have them do. All you've done is > >> > > assert that the murderer was guilty and the parents had no direct > >> > > responsibility. > >> > > >> > > Martin > >> > > >> > As a result of free will, people can do good or do evil. God is > >> > indirectly > >> > responsible since he created mankind. > >> > >> God is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing; that makes him > >> responsible for everything period. > >> > >> > > >> > If God had never created mankind, people would not do evil things. On > >> > the > >> > other hand, people would not be able to do wonderful things. > >> > >> He would still be responsible. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Free will explains many things--howwever, most people--even > >> > Christians--do > >> > not understand free will. > >> > >> We have a hard time with square circles too. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Insurance companies blame God for all natural disasters. Perhaps there > >> > reasoning is that God is responsible since those natural disasters > >> > would > >> > not have happened if God had not created the world. > >> > >> Gosh, do you think that might be it? > > > > One of the positive things about it is the insurance companies (unlike > > yourself) are acknowledging that God created the earth. > > Why don't you poll their shareholders to see if your assertion is true. If they don't believe in God, why do they continue to write it in their policies? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > > >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > God > >> > > >> > > God doesn't exist. > >> > > >> > > created mankind, he > >> > > > gave us free will. > >> > > >> > > Free will doesn't exist. > >> > > >> > > You're 0 for 2. > >> > > >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free will, > >> > many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; sociological and > >> > psychological issues--make sense. For example, I now understand why > >> > some > >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month each year > >> > in > >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do terrible > >> > things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > >> > >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who > >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in their > >> god? > >> > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to God--but they > > are wrong. You can find many cases in history where people done terrible > > things that they believed were pleasing to God--but were not pleasing to > > God. > > Jason > > Who are you to judge? It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people on 9/11. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <vpBbi.1886$L8.467@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206071213590001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <c5Bbi.1880$L8.1081@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-1006071822330001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <vsduj4-umv.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> [snips] > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:14:53 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > A testimony is evidence in court houses in America almost every week > >> >> > day. > >> >> > Her testimony is evidence. > >> >> > >> >> Even in courts, testimony is regarded as the least reliable source, as > >> >> people lie, forget, misremember and on and on and on. They also tend > >> >> to > >> >> say things that are simply not supported by fact. > >> >> > >> >> A perfect example of that last bit is you - or her - claiming her leg > >> >> was > >> >> healed by God. Yes, fine, her leg healed, we'll buy that for the > >> >> nonce, > >> >> but you haven't demonstrated that God even exists, so any testimony > >> >> that > >> >> it was healed _by God_ is simply not supported by the facts, and thus > >> >> is > >> >> discarded. > >> >> > >> >> Feel free to demonstrate God exists. Until you do, you have no basis > >> >> to > >> >> claim he did anything. > >> > > >> > And in some states, people place there hands on Bibles and swear to > >> > tell > >> > the truth. In those states, why would anyone need to spend time proving > >> > that God exists. If there was a court case related to this issue, > >> > Cheryl > >> > Prewitt could produce her medical records (eg X-Rays). All of medical > >> > staff that were present when a doctor removed two inches of a leg bone > >> > would testify. Showing a film of the Miss America beauty contest--would > >> > prove that she was walking gracefully and was not wearing a platform > >> > shoe > >> > on one foot. > >> > > >> > If it was a rural area of a state in the Bible Belt--the jury would > >> > rule > >> > that Cheryl was telling the truth. > >> > >> They would do that without a trial. Is that fair? Is that right? I would > >> certainly hate to have someone of your intellect on a jury, to judge me > >> if I > >> were innocent. > > > > I have been selected for jury duty and I live in California. > > The defense erred if they let you on a jury. The trial ended before the trial was finished due to a plea-bargain. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206071341060001@66-52-22-4.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <72Cbi.701$ma.216@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-1206071219310001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <OIAbi.1872$L8.223@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-1206071030510001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <1181644398.763698.134870@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On 12 Jun., 02:37, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article >> >> >> > <1181603881.651499.322...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> > > On Jun 12, 1:05 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> > > > <1181558587.524968.174...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> > > > > On 10 Jun., 15:56, Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> >> >> >> > > > > wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > On 10 Jun., 02:03, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > > Since God created the world and all life forms--God >> >> >> > > > > > > > is >> >> > indirectly >> >> >> > > > > > > > responsible for everything that happens--even if it >> >> >> > > > > > > > is >> >> >> > > > > > > > evil. >> >> >> > Does that >> >> >> > > > > > > > mean that a murderer can blame God for the murder--I >> >> >> > > > > > > > don't >> >> > think so. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > Jason will change his mind if he ever snaps and kills ten >> >> >> > > > > > people in >> >> >> > > > > > one day as he's threatened to do. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > It is amazing that he (and so many others) can serenely >> >> >> > > > > contradict >> >> >> > > > > themselves, apparently without it bothering them in the >> >> >> > > > > least. >> >> >> > > > > He >> >> >> > > > > tells us that god is responsible for everything, but he is >> >> >> > > > > not >> >> >> > > > > responsible for any crimes committed. He will, no doubt, >> >> >> > > > > attempt >> >> >> > > > > to >> >> >> > > > > justify it by mentioning free will, which, of course, also >> >> >> > > > > contradicts >> >> >> > > > > god being responsible for everything. A whirling dervish >> >> >> > > > > has >> >> >> > > > > nothing >> >> >> > > > > on Jason. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > There is no contradiction. I will simplify it for you by >> >> >> > > > giving >> >> >> > > > you >> >> >> > > > an >> >> >> > > > example. Parents have a son that commits a murder when he is >> >> >> > > > 30 >> >> > years old. >> >> >> > > > Will the son or the parents be sent to prison? The answer is >> >> >> > > > that >> >> > the son >> >> >> > > > will be sent to prison since he was guilty of the murder. >> >> >> > > > Yes, >> >> >> > > > the >> >> > parents >> >> >> > > > were indirectly responsible since the murder would not have >> >> >> > > > been >> >> > committed >> >> >> > > > if the parents had not had that son. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > But you're not claiming the parents to be omniscient or >> >> >> > > ominipotent. >> >> >> > > Nor have you established that anybody has free will to go >> >> >> > > beyond >> >> >> > > what >> >> >> > > their instincts and memories would have them do. All you've >> >> >> > > done >> >> >> > > is >> >> >> > > assert that the murderer was guilty and the parents had no >> >> >> > > direct >> >> >> > > responsibility. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> > As a result of free will, people can do good or do evil. God is >> >> >> > indirectly >> >> >> > responsible since he created mankind. >> >> >> >> >> >> God is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing; that makes him >> >> >> responsible for everything period. >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If God had never created mankind, people would not do evil >> >> >> > things. >> >> >> > On >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > other hand, people would not be able to do wonderful things. >> >> >> >> >> >> He would still be responsible. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Free will explains many things--howwever, most people--even >> >> >> > Christians--do >> >> >> > not understand free will. >> >> >> >> >> >> We have a hard time with square circles too. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Insurance companies blame God for all natural disasters. Perhaps >> >> >> > there >> >> >> > reasoning is that God is responsible since those natural >> >> >> > disasters >> >> >> > would >> >> >> > not have happened if God had not created the world. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gosh, do you think that might be it? >> >> > >> >> > One of the positive things about it is the insurance companies >> >> > (unlike >> >> > yourself) are acknowledging that God created the earth. >> >> >> >> Why don't you poll their shareholders to see if your assertion is >> >> true. >> > >> > If they don't believe in God, why do they continue to write it in their >> > policies? >> >> Because it has been there for years. All such acts are called 'acts of >> god' >> because ignorant Christians like you knew of nothing else to call it. >> I checked my homeowner's policy from USAA and there is no reference to >> 'acts >> of god'. > > What term is now used to replace "acts of God"? There is none. The acts are specifically named. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206071338560001@66-52-22-4.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <53Cbi.703$ma.25@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article >> >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > God >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > God doesn't exist. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > created mankind, he >> >> >> > > > gave us free will. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free >> >> >> > will, >> >> >> > many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; >> >> >> > sociological >> >> >> > and >> >> >> > psychological issues--make sense. For example, I now understand >> >> >> > why >> >> >> > some >> >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month each >> >> >> > year >> >> >> > in >> >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do >> >> >> > terrible >> >> >> > things such as becoming murderers or rapists. >> >> >> >> >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten >> >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who >> >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in their >> >> >> god? >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > Martin, >> >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. >> >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to >> >> > God--but >> >> > they >> >> > are wrong. You can find many cases in history where people done >> >> > terrible >> >> > things that they believed were pleasing to God--but were not >> >> > pleasing >> >> > to >> >> > God. >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> Who are you to judge? >> > >> > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people on >> > 9/11. >> >> So now you can judge? I thought that was the province of your god :-). > > Every time that someone is on a jury--they have to judge. Every judge in > world has to make judgements. God is the ultimate and final judge. The > judges will be judged by God. > Jason Then I guess you can stop judging. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <Xns994D94878C66Ffreddybear@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > > > In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > In article > >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > Martin > >> >> > > >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > > > God > >> >> > > >> >> > > God doesn't exist. > >> >> > > >> >> > > created mankind, he > >> >> > > > gave us free will. > >> >> > > >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. > >> >> > > >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. > >> >> > > >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free > >> >> > will, many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; > >> >> > sociological and psychological issues--make sense. For example, > >> >> > I now understand why some > >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month > >> >> > each year in > >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do > >> >> > terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > >> >> > >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who > >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in > >> >> their god? > >> >> > >> >> Martin > >> > > >> > Martin, > >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to > >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history where > >> > people done terrible things that they believed were pleasing to > >> > God--but were not pleasing to God. > >> > Jason > >> > >> Who are you to judge? > > > > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people on > > 9/11. > > > > It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous infidel you > are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with > their actions. You already know that millions of people in America agree that the actions of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > > -- > Fred Stone > aa# 1369 > "When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to > lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that > seemed like posturing." Quote
Guest Fred Stone Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-1206071303440001@66-52-22-41.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > In article <Xns994D94878C66Ffreddybear@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone > <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: >> >> > In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article >> >> > <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article >> >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > God >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > God doesn't exist. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > created mankind, he >> >> >> > > > gave us free will. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands >> >> >> > free will, many Bible doctrines and even issues related to >> >> >> > life; sociological and psychological issues--make sense. For >> >> >> > example, I now understand why some >> >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month >> >> >> > each year in >> >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do >> >> >> > terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. >> >> >> >> >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing >> >> >> ten people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the >> >> >> men who killed 3000 people on September 11th because they >> >> >> believed in their god? >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > Martin, >> >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. >> >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to >> >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history >> >> > where people done terrible things that they believed were >> >> > pleasing to God--but were not pleasing to God. >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> Who are you to judge? >> > >> > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people >> > on 9/11. >> > >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous infidel >> you are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah >> with their actions. > > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the > actions of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > Is your religion a popularity contest? -- Fred Stone aa# 1369 "When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that seemed like posturing." -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Fred Stone Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-1206071509130001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > In article <31d3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous >> >> infidel you are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not >> >> pleasing Allah with their actions. >> > >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the >> > actions of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> >> "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is invalidated >> simply by where they live . > > I mentioned America since those 3000 people were killed in America. > Millions of people in other countries also realize that the actions of > those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > > What is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on 9/11? > The question is how you can be sure that you know what God's opinion is. And right now it looks like you're going by opinion polls. -- Fred Stone aa# 1369 "When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that seemed like posturing." -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even this much yet - simply isn't known yet. "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being who, of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. -- “Let them eat cake.” M. Antoinette “Let them eat shit.” N. Gingrich Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <53Cbi.703$ma.25@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > In article <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > Martin > >> >> > > >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > > > God > >> >> > > >> >> > > God doesn't exist. > >> >> > > >> >> > > created mankind, he > >> >> > > > gave us free will. > >> >> > > >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. > >> >> > > >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. > >> >> > > >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free > >> >> > will, > >> >> > many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; sociological > >> >> > and > >> >> > psychological issues--make sense. For example, I now understand why > >> >> > some > >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month each > >> >> > year > >> >> > in > >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do terrible > >> >> > things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > >> >> > >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who > >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in their > >> >> god? > >> >> > >> >> Martin > >> > > >> > Martin, > >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to God--but > >> > they > >> > are wrong. You can find many cases in history where people done > >> > terrible > >> > things that they believed were pleasing to God--but were not pleasing > >> > to > >> > God. > >> > Jason > >> > >> Who are you to judge? > > > > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people on 9/11. > > So now you can judge? I thought that was the province of your god :-). Every time that someone is on a jury--they have to judge. Every judge in world has to make judgements. God is the ultimate and final judge. The judges will be judged by God. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <72Cbi.701$ma.216@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206071219310001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <OIAbi.1872$L8.223@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-1206071030510001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <1181644398.763698.134870@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> > > >> >> On 12 Jun., 02:37, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > In article <1181603881.651499.322...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > Martin > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> > > On Jun 12, 1:05 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > > > In article > >> >> > > > <1181558587.524968.174...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > > >> >> > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> > > > > On 10 Jun., 15:56, Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> > >> >> > > > > wrote: > >> >> > > > > > > On 10 Jun., 02:03, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > > > > > > > Since God created the world and all life forms--God is > >> > indirectly > >> >> > > > > > > > responsible for everything that happens--even if it is > >> >> > > > > > > > evil. > >> >> > Does that > >> >> > > > > > > > mean that a murderer can blame God for the murder--I > >> >> > > > > > > > don't > >> > think so. > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > Jason will change his mind if he ever snaps and kills ten > >> >> > > > > > people in > >> >> > > > > > one day as he's threatened to do. > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > It is amazing that he (and so many others) can serenely > >> >> > > > > contradict > >> >> > > > > themselves, apparently without it bothering them in the least. > >> >> > > > > He > >> >> > > > > tells us that god is responsible for everything, but he is not > >> >> > > > > responsible for any crimes committed. He will, no doubt, > >> >> > > > > attempt > >> >> > > > > to > >> >> > > > > justify it by mentioning free will, which, of course, also > >> >> > > > > contradicts > >> >> > > > > god being responsible for everything. A whirling dervish has > >> >> > > > > nothing > >> >> > > > > on Jason. > >> >> > > >> >> > > > There is no contradiction. I will simplify it for you by giving > >> >> > > > you > >> >> > > > an > >> >> > > > example. Parents have a son that commits a murder when he is 30 > >> > years old. > >> >> > > > Will the son or the parents be sent to prison? The answer is > >> >> > > > that > >> > the son > >> >> > > > will be sent to prison since he was guilty of the murder. Yes, > >> >> > > > the > >> > parents > >> >> > > > were indirectly responsible since the murder would not have been > >> > committed > >> >> > > > if the parents had not had that son. > >> >> > > >> >> > > But you're not claiming the parents to be omniscient or > >> >> > > ominipotent. > >> >> > > Nor have you established that anybody has free will to go beyond > >> >> > > what > >> >> > > their instincts and memories would have them do. All you've done > >> >> > > is > >> >> > > assert that the murderer was guilty and the parents had no direct > >> >> > > responsibility. > >> >> > > >> >> > > Martin > >> >> > > >> >> > As a result of free will, people can do good or do evil. God is > >> >> > indirectly > >> >> > responsible since he created mankind. > >> >> > >> >> God is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing; that makes him > >> >> responsible for everything period. > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > If God had never created mankind, people would not do evil things. > >> >> > On > >> >> > the > >> >> > other hand, people would not be able to do wonderful things. > >> >> > >> >> He would still be responsible. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Free will explains many things--howwever, most people--even > >> >> > Christians--do > >> >> > not understand free will. > >> >> > >> >> We have a hard time with square circles too. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Insurance companies blame God for all natural disasters. Perhaps > >> >> > there > >> >> > reasoning is that God is responsible since those natural disasters > >> >> > would > >> >> > not have happened if God had not created the world. > >> >> > >> >> Gosh, do you think that might be it? > >> > > >> > One of the positive things about it is the insurance companies (unlike > >> > yourself) are acknowledging that God created the earth. > >> > >> Why don't you poll their shareholders to see if your assertion is true. > > > > If they don't believe in God, why do they continue to write it in their > > policies? > > Because it has been there for years. All such acts are called 'acts of god' > because ignorant Christians like you knew of nothing else to call it. > I checked my homeowner's policy from USAA and there is no reference to 'acts > of god'. What term is now used to replace "acts of God"? Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous infidel you >> are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with >> their actions. > > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the actions > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is invalidated simply by where they live . You really are an ignorant piece of work. -- “Your attempt at humour is pathetic! Get a life in Christ.” -- Frank Hudson “I always thought that ‘get a life’ was an incredibly stupid cliche’. I had no idea that you could make it even stupider.” -- J.J. Hitt Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 On 12 jun, 15:20, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > On 12 Jun., 08:12, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > But the parents are not responsible for the behavior of an adult > > > competent child. They may regret have given birth to that child, but > > > they are not legally responsible for his actions after attaining > > > majority. They may have raised him in a way that led him to commit his > > > crimes, but that is a psychological issue rather than a legal one. It > > > might be a moral issue, depending on how they raised him. > > > > > Jason > > > cactus, > > My point was that God is like the parents. > > What utter nonsense! The parents are not all-powerful. They cannot > possibly be responsible for everything the child does. > > In much the same way the > > > parents were indirectly responsible for the murder since the murder would > > not have happened if the son had never been born--God is indirectly > > responsible for evil, since evil would never have happened if God had not > > created the solar system and life. > > Your analogy is transparently invalid. If parents would had the ability to change for the better the behavior of his son, he would surely do it. We want that he would be free, but free to drive a reasonable life. We, as parents, do no want our kids to fall into a pool of shit. But, sometimes, we are too busy or we are not enough vlever, and our kids began to show bad a attitude, and we do not know how to change or reverse this. If we were like gods, our kids would have freedom to behave in a nice manner and to keep out of trouble. But we are not gods. So, go is a very bad parent. And this analogy posited by Jason is not valid. If there is a god, he would surely change all that. And this is one of the proves that there is not any god. Bramble Quote
Guest Jim07D7 Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by >healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. Is the character of this being revealed in the cure rate? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <aTCbi.26$kR2.10@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206071338560001@66-52-22-4.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <53Cbi.703$ma.25@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >> > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> > In article <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > Martin > >> >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> > In article > >> >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> >> > Martin > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> > > > God > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > God doesn't exist. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > created mankind, he > >> >> >> > > > gave us free will. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free > >> >> >> > will, > >> >> >> > many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; > >> >> >> > sociological > >> >> >> > and > >> >> >> > psychological issues--make sense. For example, I now understand > >> >> >> > why > >> >> >> > some > >> >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month each > >> >> >> > year > >> >> >> > in > >> >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do > >> >> >> > terrible > >> >> >> > things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > >> >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who > >> >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in their > >> >> >> god? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Martin > >> >> > > >> >> > Martin, > >> >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > >> >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to > >> >> > God--but > >> >> > they > >> >> > are wrong. You can find many cases in history where people done > >> >> > terrible > >> >> > things that they believed were pleasing to God--but were not > >> >> > pleasing > >> >> > to > >> >> > God. > >> >> > Jason > >> >> > >> >> Who are you to judge? > >> > > >> > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people on > >> > 9/11. > >> > >> So now you can judge? I thought that was the province of your god :-). > > > > Every time that someone is on a jury--they have to judge. Every judge in > > world has to make judgements. God is the ultimate and final judge. The > > judges will be judged by God. > > Jason > > Then I guess you can stop judging. Would you refuse to be on jury? I will continue to serve on juries and will continue to make jugdements if am sure that it's a fair judgement. In the case of the men that killed 3000 people on 9/11--that was an easy case to judge fairly. Jason Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206071501420001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> > Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that >> > her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? >> >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even >> this >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. >> >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being >> who, >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." >> >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. If he is he needs to advertise. Why is it that "god" is always so secretive? His 'inerrant' word is full of errors and nonsense. His works are always done by man. That's right, god can't do anything for himself. Almost like man invented him, isn't it. Have you considered that, Jason? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > > her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > > Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even this > much yet - simply isn't known yet. > > "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being who, > of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this > particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > > You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 In article <31d3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: > > >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous infidel you > >> are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with > >> their actions. > > > > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the actions > > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > > "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is invalidated > simply by where they live . I mentioned America since those 3000 people were killed in America. Millions of people in other countries also realize that the actions of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. What is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on 9/11? > > You really are an ignorant piece of work. Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 On 12 jun, 19:12, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1181657712.278600.171...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > bramble <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 12 jun, 01:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1181601324.493083.251...@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > > > Ok, OK > > The freewill exists to a certain point that is mostly a banal > > decision. > > Just consider a child or an adolescent that is well tamed to learn > > piano playing. He is doing the piano playing everyday, not because of > > he has any freewill, but because he was dressed or, in scientific > > jargon, because he was conditioned to learn piano playing. If > > everything runs as before, he will be continuing doing the learning of > > piano playing for many years in the future, untill he becomes a > > virtuoso pianist. So, in all this, there is not involved any free- > > will, as the philosphers use to posit, but a process of operant > > conditioning. If the process of conditioned is terminated when the > > child is 12, or 14 or so, this endeavor will evaporate in a year or > > so. The adolescent will continue playing the piano a little bit, now > > an there. And probably he will end playing the piano in night clubs, > > bars and restaurants, because he has not finished his career. To be a > > very good pianist it is needed a lot of training. Something in the > > range of 10 to 12 thousand hours of enthusiastic work. > > > I said, the piano, but I could have said to achieve a superior > > doctorate in Maths, Engineering, Electronics, or any other. If there > > is not tilling, there is not harvest. So to achieve a life of > > dedicated work, more or less intense, more or less glorious, there is > > the need of a set of conditions. That set of conditions is called > > "operant conditioning". If there is not a good conditioning there is > > not a commendable behavior. The same is valid for ordinary, middle of > > the road behavior. If the operant conditioning exerted over the child > > and young people is something that can be called "average", that will > > result in average behaviour. > > If the operant conditioning is plagued by grave errors, the boy in > > question will become in a few years a common criminal. > > If you would know something about "operant conditioning" you will be > > not talking about free will. Free will is the kingdom of people that > > do nothing of value in question of behaviour. Just look at a boy that > > is all day zapping channels on the television, or just drifting > > around the streets doing nothing. > > Well, at first sight, this looks like real "free-will" but it is not. > > As an animal, he has to do something. He cannot be laying all day > > over a mattress, because he eventually get tired of it and bored. So > > he has to wake up and go out drifting, for he was watching five or six > > hours of TV. So he is tired of being lying in the couch, and is fed > > up of watching TV. So if he decides to get out and drift on the mall, > > he is not exercizing any free well, but changing behavior > > repertoire. > > So the behavior of someone that has not been tamed into doing some > > useful conduct, is aimless and look a little random. This doing > > nothing is neither an example to prove there is a freewill. > > > We had invented the term freewill, because we needed to cage criminals > > out of our way, to stop the damages and the troubles they are causing > > to society. > > > It is not the first time that someone pointed the theory that these > > criminals cannot change their behavoir. that is sort of compulsive. > > That is true, but is not in the least a strong reason for not putting > > them in prison. > > > Even if psychologists were able to change the behavior of criminals, > > we would have not enough money to achieve that enormous task. On the > > other hand, even if it is not any easy to change the mind, or the > > behavior of an adolescent that mishave, it is a lot more difficult to > > change the mind, the behavior, of an adult criminal. > > Well, I have given you some stuff to argue about. > > Bramble > > Bramble, > I learned about operant conditioning while taking a pschology class. Yes, > it is possible to manipulate behavior by the use of operant conditioning. > It is also possible to manipulate behavior by they use of brain washing > techniques. > > Let me tell you a summary version of a million dollar experiment that was > performed in the local mental hospital. They used operant conditioning on > child molesters to train them to no longer be child molesters. In order to > graduate, they had to be able to see pictures of naked children without > becoming aroused. At least a hundred child molesters graduated from that > program. The end result was that when those child molesters were > released--they re-offended at the same rate at those child molesters that > never graduated from that million dollar program. They had to discontinue > the operant conditioning program. > > In relation to free will, I was referring to children and adults that were > NOT involved in operant conditing programs or brainwashing programs. Those > people have free will. For example, the piano player can even choose to > never again play a piano. This is especially true in relation to adults > that no longer live in the homes of their parents. > > Jason You have confusing thoughts about operant conditioning. First of all, operant conditioning is done everyday by all sort of interactions among people. Kids are conditioned by their parents and relatives, but also by the their friends, neighbors, teachers and other. So, the result of all this is a mixing of influences. That's is easily proved by watching that people in general has the same religion as their parents. People intelligent can easily have intelligent children and dull people about the same. People learn to speak the language of the country where they live, the language of their parents, or both. Adults are changing their behavior continuesly, but at a very slow pace. In general, the behavior of people has some degree of resistence to the change. This fenomenon is called "resistence to extinction". In the experiment you are mentioning about the extinction of the behavior of pederasts, these psychologists had to be a bunch of stupids, if they would had ignored about the "resistence to extinction". Some behaviors are harder to extinguish than others. And the behavior based on the pleasures of sex are of the hardest to extinguish. This is very basic. You, to put an example, have been conditioned to believe in a god, and to believe Jesus is your Saviour. Quote
Guest Fred Stone Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-1206071627440001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > In article <Xns994DB0A6F64ABfreddybear@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone > <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> news:Jason-1206071509130001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: >> >> > In article <31d3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous >> >> >> infidel you are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not >> >> >> pleasing Allah with their actions. >> >> > >> >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that >> >> > the actions of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> >> >> >> "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is >> >> invalidated simply by where they live . >> > >> > I mentioned America since those 3000 people were killed in America. >> > Millions of people in other countries also realize that the actions >> > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> > >> > What is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on >> > 9/11? >> > >> >> The question is how you can be sure that you know what God's >> opinion is. And right now it looks like you're going by opinion >> polls. > > Fred, > One of the commandments is related to this subject--Thou shall not > Murder. Those men murdered 3000 people on 9/11. They violated one of > God's commandments. Jesus said that we should love our neighbor--he > did not say anything about killing our neighbors. What is your opinion > about those men that killed 3000 people on 9/11? > 1. God commands a great deal of killing of neighbors in the Bible. 2. Muslims don't go by the Bible. They go by the Quran. 3. This isn't about my opinion. This is about how you know what God's opinion is. -- Fred Stone aa# 1369 "When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that seemed like posturing." -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Fred Stone Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-1206071629120001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > In article <Xns994DB060B8F89freddybear@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone > <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> news:Jason-1206071303440001@66-52-22-41.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: >> >> > In article <Xns994D94878C66Ffreddybear@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone >> > <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: >> >> >> >> > In article <5d83hcF31q6f3U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> >> > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw- dia.impulse.net. >> >> >> .. >> >> >> > In article >> >> >> > <1181649884.050718.194220@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > In article >> >> >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > God >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > God doesn't exist. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > created mankind, he >> >> >> >> > > > gave us free will. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person >> >> >> >> > understands free will, many Bible doctrines and even >> >> >> >> > issues related to life; sociological and psychological >> >> >> >> > issues--make sense. For example, I now understand why some >> >> >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a >> >> >> >> > month each year in >> >> >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people >> >> >> >> > do terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of >> >> >> >> killing ten people a day if you didn't believe in God? What >> >> >> >> about the men who killed 3000 people on September 11th >> >> >> >> because they believed in their god? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Martin, >> >> >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. >> >> >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to >> >> >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history >> >> >> > where people done terrible things that they believed were >> >> >> > pleasing to God--but were not pleasing to God. >> >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> >> >> Who are you to judge? >> >> > >> >> > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 >> >> > people on 9/11. >> >> > >> >> >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous >> >> infidel you are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not >> >> pleasing Allah with their actions. >> > >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the >> > actions of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> > >> >> Is your religion a popularity contest? > > No--what is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on > 9/11? > This isn't about my opinion. -- Fred Stone aa# 1369 "When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that seemed like posturing." -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
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