Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <1181731971.306554.97110@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 13, 3:45 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > news:Jason-1206072140050001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > Bob, > > > There is a world of difference between conducting scientific experiments > > > in labs compared to creating a star. > > > > > The scientists believe that it happened naturally. It's very likely that > > > it involved elements (or a combination of elements) and amino acids. > > > > > If it happened once--naturally--scientists should be able to cause it > > > happen again. > > > > So you think scientist should be able to create stars in the laboratory? > > And their failure to do so implies that there is a 'god' who created them > > instead? > > Of course if his god created mankind then his god should be able to do > it again. Don't hold your breath wanting for another species of man > to appear. > > Martin Martin, As of now, many of the aspects of abiogenesis are based on speculation instead of evidence. Experiments like the one mentioned above would produce evidence. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <7f50735gqg9n7ifa3ib8ucmhc2t0jd959k@4ax.com>, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:48:04 -0700, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > >On 12 Jun., 19:42, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> In article <1181643770.817395.36...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> > On 11 Jun., 21:54, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > In article <0de0k4-blk....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >snip > > > >> > A person that has been healed is evidence that he was healed. It is > >> > not evidence of a god. > >> > > > >> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > >> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened?- > > > >I would not be able to explain it, and that is not evidence that god > >did it. > > > But then, Jason isn't about to provide any evidence either..... Why bother--several have told me that if I provided physical evidence to prove that her leg bone grew two inches, they would still not believe that God healed her leg. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <f4pa1r$vpv$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> [snips] > >> > >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> > >>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > >>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even this > >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. > >> > >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being who, > >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this > >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > >> > >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > > > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? > > BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your > god, I'd sue him for malpractice. The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence that there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal everyone that needed to be healed. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <1181756794.512040.211180@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 13 Jun., 00:01, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <opc3k4-7or....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > > > > > > > > > > <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > [snips] > > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > > > > Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated th= > at > > > > her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > > > > > Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even th= > is > > > much yet - simply isn't known yet. > > > > > "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being w= > ho, > > > of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match th= > is > > > particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > > > without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > > > > > You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > > > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in.- Skjul tekst i an= > f=F8r > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > You have already agreed in a response to one of my posts that being > healed is not evidence that god did the healing. You have no evidence > that anybody was healed by god only that they have claimed it. I understand your point. I do believe that a testimony is evidence. The members of a jury can decide which testimonies to believe. Those same jury members can decide which testimonies to not believe. The testimony of Chery Prewitt can be believed by some people (esp. Christians). On the other hand, her testimony is not believed by other people (esp. atheists). Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <f4ottt$j2u$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <1181643770.817395.36870@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> A person that has been healed is evidence that he was healed. It is > >> not evidence of a god. > > > > Yes, that is true. > > "The evidence that they were healed is evidence for God." People can believe the evidence (testimony) or reject the evidence (testimony. > > Remember saying that, Jason? Are you now saying exactly the opposite? > > If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > > her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > > Why would we have to be able to explain it? Just because we couldn't > (assuming you ever actually managed to show this physical evidence, > which you've never shown before) how would such a lack of explanation > automatically mean "god did it" instead of "Mike did it"? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1306071303300001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <f4pa1r$vpv$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated >> >>> that >> >>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? >> >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even >> >> this >> >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. >> >> >> >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being >> >> who, >> >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match >> >> this >> >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically >> >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." >> >> >> >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. >> > >> > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by >> > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. >> >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? >> >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > > The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence that > there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > everyone that needed to be healed. Mighty convenient Jason, your god doesn't heal all just select ones. I guess you need it that way to fit what we all know to be reality. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <f4otjc$j2u$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > I was referring to these two steps: > > > > STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) > > STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual reproduction) > > And leaving out the millions of steps that came before and between. > > > Testimony is considered as evidence in court. Someone pointed out that > > physical evidence (eg gun, bloody knife) is more important than testimony. > > I agreed with that person that made that statement. > > > > Let's say that the neighbors in an apartment building hear a married > > couple having an argument. They hear the husband say, "I'm going to kill > > you". The argument ends and the police are not called. The following day, > > the wife was shot as she was walking home from work. The husband took a > > shower after he shot his wife and washed his hands with bleach to remove > > any evidence. There were no witnesses present when the husband shot his > > wife. The police are not able to find a gun when they search the apartment > > and all surrounding areas. They arrest the husband and charge him with the > > murder. All of the neighbors provide testimony at the murder trial. > > > > The jury members convict the husband of first degree murder--based upon > > the testimonies of the people that heard the argument and heard him say, > > "I'm going to kill you." > > No, they wouldn't. You'd never even find a DA that would even think > about arresting the guy to begin with, much less prosecuting him, based > on simply an "I'm going to kill you." Was there even a body? > > > Do you now understand that TESTIMONY is evidence--even if there is no > > physical evidence? > > Testimony is simply evidence that the person says he > saw/heard/tasted/smelled/felt something but NOT evidence that the > something actually exists.. But if the neighbor claimed "Yeah, I saw him > shoot her and bury her body right here" and yet there was no body found > (or better yet, the wife is actually standing there, alive and well) the > testimony would likely be ignored. Let's try again: A woman's husband is observed by 8 witnesses going inside their apartment with a gun in his hand and shouting, "I am going to kill that woman." The witnesses hear a gunshot and see the man running from the building. The husband had watched over a hundred episodes of CSI and followed his plan: He was able to get rid of all physical evidence--including the gun. The only evidence at the murder trial is the testimony of the witnesses. The body of the woman is found. If you was on the jury, would you find him guilty? I would Jason Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 On 13 jun, 20:39, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1181728605.275234.304...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On 12 Jun., 20:28, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1181649884.050718.194...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > In article <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ma= > > rtin > > > > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > God doesn't exist. > > > > > > > created mankind, he > > > > > > > gave us free will. > > > > > > > Free will doesn't exist. > > > > > > > You're 0 for 2. > > > > > > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free will, > > > > > many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; sociological and > > > > > psychological issues--make sense. For example, I now understand why s= > > ome > > > > > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month each yea= > > r in > > > > > third world countries. I also understand why some people do terrible > > > > > things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > > > > > Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > > > > people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who > > > > killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in their > > > > god? > > > > > Martin > > > > Martin, > > > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > > > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to God--but they > > > are wrong. You can find many cases in history where people done terrible > > > things that they believed were pleasing to God--but were not pleasing to > > > God. > > > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > How do you know what is pleasing to god? According to your own Bible > > god has ordered mass killing and punished those who did not obey the > > order. You really should not second-guess god; he may not like it, > > just as he may not like all the lies you tell. > > Do you think that when men fly jets into buildings and kill 3000 > people--that it is or is not pleasing to God? In that case, it's easy to > figure out how God feels about it. There is a commandment that states: > Thou shall not Murder. This had not troubled Christians to fight each other for religious reasons. On the other hand, this guys were Muslims and they thought they were doing th right thing. The quram advices to kill infidels for several reasons. So the people in the towers and the Pentagon were infidels. This cna happen any time, with holy books that advice fidels that god ordered to kill populations for this reason or the other. Bramble Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <f4pd81$3le$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > Bob, > > Jason, > > > There is a world of difference between conducting scientific experiments > > in labs compared to creating a star. > > There is a world of difference between conducting scientific experiments > in labs compared to evolution on a worldwide scale that took billions of > years (or abiogenesis that took place on a planetary scale over possibly > thousands or millions of years.) > > > The scientists believe that it happened naturally. It's very likely that > > it involved elements (or a combination of elements) and amino acids. > > > > If it happened once--naturally--scientists should be able to cause it > > happen again. > > "If forming a sun happened once--naturally--scientists should be able to > cause it happen again." > > Maybe the odds are such that it would take a lab 10,000,000 years to > have the same thing happen again. But on a planetary basis, that might > mean it happens daily (we just don't happen to be there that one time it > does) or that it could have happened daily under those circumstances > that existed 3.5 billion years ago but not under the conditions we now have. > > > Just because it happened once doesn't mean we can always repeat it. The > lottery happened to hit 1-20-22-46-54-63 once. Does that mean you can > duplicate that "in a lab"? Do you acknowledge that many of the aspects of abiogenesis are based upon speculation and not on evidence--such at the results of experiments. Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 On 13 jun, 20:49, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1181731971.306554.97...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 13, 3:45 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > >news:Jason-1206072140050001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > Bob, > > > > There is a world of difference between conducting scientific experiments > > > > in labs compared to creating a star. > > > > > The scientists believe that it happened naturally. It's very likely that > > > > it involved elements (or a combination of elements) and amino acids. > > > > > If it happened once--naturally--scientists should be able to cause it > > > > happen again. > > > > So you think scientist should be able to create stars in the laboratory? > > > And their failure to do so implies that there is a 'god' who created them > > > instead? > > > Of course if his god created mankind then his god should be able to do > > it again. Don't hold your breath wanting for another species of man > > to appear. > > > Martin > > Martin, > As of now, many of the aspects of abiogenesis are based on speculation > instead of evidence. Experiments like the one mentioned above would > produce evidence. > jason This experiments would produce evidence, eventually. But not at the present state of our knowledge. This experiement is very difficult to carry out, because if there is any lumps of molecules that are in the path of becoming some sort of living microorganism, they cannot even spot them. This sort of proto-organism perhaps is very slow to develop, or otherwise, very difficult to identify. It is like looking for a needle in a barn full of straw. Anyway, abiogensis is nothing but a theory. A reasonable one, by the way. But not all theories can be proved in a laboratory. Many of the scientific assertions can be falsifiable, but not all. Anyway, scientific theories can be pleasant to the mind, but not all of them can be proved right. Some can be wrong. Humans are not gods, remember? We are limited. Bramble Quote
Guest Jim07D7 Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >It's >difficult not to think about sex when a young beautiful girl wearing a >bathing suit walks in front of me. Could you elaborate on that? Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 On 13 jun, 21:01, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <7f50735gqg9n7ifa3ib8ucmhc2t0jd9...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > > <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:48:04 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >On 12 Jun., 19:42, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> In article <1181643770.817395.36...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > >> > On 11 Jun., 21:54, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > In article <0de0k4-blk....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > >snip > > > >> > A person that has been healed is evidence that he was healed. It is > > >> > not evidence of a god. > > > >> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > > >> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened?- > > > >I would not be able to explain it, and that is not evidence that god > > >did it. > > > But then, Jason isn't about to provide any evidence either..... > > Why bother--several have told me that if I provided physical evidence to > prove that her leg bone grew two inches, they would still not believe that > God healed her leg. You are asking for imposibles, Jason. Dismissing the posibility of a cooked fraude... yes, frauds happens all the times. Well, dismissing the case of fraud, we are in front of an unexplained phenomenon. A phenomenon that we cannot explain is not the prove of any divine intervention. Just, we cannot yet explain the rain. We supose it is a natural phenomenon, bur it cannot be explained yet. Well, there is a lot of phenomenons we cannot explain. But these can be atributed to god by some people. But others simple confess "we cannot understand it or explain it." So, if this lady's leg really grew two inches, it is all right. But this is not the prove of an action on the part of God. In the past, all calamites were called, acts of god. Hurricanes, tornados, huge floods, persitent raining, droughts, earthquakes, sunamies... you name them. Acts of god. A very malevolent one, but the way. Bramble Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <1181759527.190743.38910@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bramble <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 jun, 00:37, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1181683568.769547.221...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > bramble <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 12 jun, 15:20, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > On 12 Jun., 08:12, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > But the parents are not responsible for the behavior of an adult > > > > > > competent child. They may regret have given birth to that child, but > > > > > > they are not legally responsible for his actions after attaining > > > > > > majority. They may have raised him in a way that led him to commit his > > > > > > crimes, but that is a psychological issue rather than a legal one. It > > > > > > might be a moral issue, depending on how they raised him. > > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > cactus, > > > > > My point was that God is like the parents. > > > > > > What utter nonsense! The parents are not all-powerful. They cannot > > > > possibly be responsible for everything the child does. > > > > > > In much the same way the > > > > > > > parents were indirectly responsible for the murder since the murder would > > > > > not have happened if the son had never been born--God is indirectly > > > > > responsible for evil, since evil would never have happened if God had not > > > > > created the solar system and life. > > > > > > Your analogy is transparently invalid. > > > > > If parents would had the ability to change for the better the behavior > > > of his son, he would surely do it. We want that he would be free, but > > > free to drive a reasonable life. We, as parents, do no want our kids > > > to fall into a pool of shit. > > > But, sometimes, we are too busy or we are not enough vlever, and our > > > kids began to show bad a attitude, and we do not know how to change or > > > reverse this. > > > If we were like gods, our kids would have freedom to behave in a nice > > > manner and to keep out of trouble. But we are not gods. > > > So, go is a very bad parent. And this analogy posited by Jason is not > > > valid. > > > If there is a god, he would surely change all that. And this is one > > > of the proves that there is not any god. > > > Bramble > > > > God could have created robots that were programmed by God to do only kind > > and wonderful things and never do bad things such as murder. Instead of > > creating programmed robots, God created people that had free will. People > > will eventually be judged by God in relation to how they used their free > > will. Did they love God or turn their backs on God? Did they violate God's > > commandments or follow the commandments? Did they love or hate? Did they > > do good or evil? etc. > > Jason > > Hi, Jason, my dear. > I am glad to hear you saying fooly things. > There is not any need for a god to create robots. > By example, "god" put limits to our capacity and abilities, isn't > it? > By example, we cannot feed ourselves by grazing like cows. We cannot > swim or go fishing like we were dolphins, we cannot fly like the > albatross or the geese for thousand of miles, and so on. > So, these animals are not robots. > > I told you in another post, that you are unable to do certain things. > There is something inside your mind that make you unable to do it, or > even wish it. Isn't so? > In general, I suppose you are not molesting kids, > you are not a serial killer, > you are not holding up banks, > you are probably not betting casinos in Las Vegas, > you are not fornicating with other men, > and so on. > Now, here comes out the question. > > Do you think that you are behaving like you were a robot? > If your god were a good father, as religious people like to posit, > He would had made us incapable of doing bad things. > All we could have been able to do, were to behave correctly, as most > of the people do. > By behaving correctly, I am not testing positive of being a robot. > Are you a robot, Jason? Must of us are not robots. Our behavior is > unpredictable to a certain point. We cannot be 100% sure, what will > be our next movement. So we are not robots. > Religious people speak about "temptations". They must be mild, those > temptations, Jason. Sometimes, we like a little bit the wife of our > neighbor, but most of us do not need to fight the urge of gropping her > bottocks. > Perhaps, we feel a little envy, for someone who earn a lot of money. > But our sins rarely go farther than that. > So, the people who behave properly, and had not any sort of > temptation, I grave or serious temptations, can be called "robotic"? > Do you think, that any ordinary folk, can be called robotic, because > they have not serious or "punishable by prision" wishes? > You have to find a different argument, dear Jason. > This one is not good. > Bramble Bramble, You are discussing free will. No, I do not believe I am behaving like I was a robot. You may have read about a famous television evangelist named Jimmy Swaggart. He played the role of an excellent Christian but enjoyed having sex with prostitutes. Some of the prostitutes told their stories to the reporters from a gossip magazine. If he had been like a robot, he would not have had sex with prostitutes. We have to deal with all sorts of temptations. We usually do not sin but in some cases we do sin. It's difficult not to think about sex when a young beautiful girl wearing a bathing suit walks in front of me. Needless to say, humans are not anything like robots. All people have free will. jason Quote
Guest Jim07D7 Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >In article <n6h073ld1g9di7lnunsl1cnb3scf0n4fj0@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 ><Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >> >> >In article <5j6073t6418s8hkdp6if2lent5csp58i7s@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 >> ><Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >> <...> >> >> > >> >> >They are different names for God. >> >> > >> >> "God" is a name. >> > >> >Good point--I should have wrote--They are different names for Yahweh. >> > >> >> "Yahweh" is a name. >> >> When Moses asked (Exodus 3:14), the reply was not a name. > >You are correct. > >I seem to recall that the Bible scholars state that the actual name for >God is impossible to pronouce. It's something like "I am" >Jason I believe that on this subject, silence is appropriate. Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 On 13 jun, 21:26, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4otjc$j2...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > Testimony is simply evidence that the person says he > > saw/heard/tasted/smelled/felt something but NOT evidence that the > > something actually exists.. But if the neighbor claimed "Yeah, I saw him > > shoot her and bury her body right here" and yet there was no body found > > (or better yet, the wife is actually standing there, alive and well) the > > testimony would likely be ignored. > > Let's try again: > A woman's husband is observed by 8 witnesses going inside their apartment > with a gun in his hand and shouting, "I am going to kill that woman." The > witnesses hear a gunshot and see the man running from the building. The > husband had watched over a hundred episodes of CSI and followed his plan: > He was able to get rid of all physical evidence--including the gun. The > only evidence at the murder trial is the testimony of the witnesses. The > body of the woman is found. > > If you was on the jury, would you find him guilty? I would > > Jason Jason, Jason: You are establishing an analogy with a court trial that is a wrong one. In general the cases studied in a trial are rather common criminal cases. In those cases, the personal testimonies are heard. But this is not a guarantee that the declaration of the jury corresponds with the truth. It is only a practical mechanism for judging an accused. It is not a guarantee of anything. So, in the case of miracles, we need more than a simple jury. Extraordinary claims, demand extraordinary proves. And you have heard this many times in your life. But you do not care, for you are trying to fool others. I am begining to think that you are not honest, Jason. You are very good at positting your arguments, but they are worthless mostly. You have to know that. So you are playing the false prophet, Jason. A prophet that does not care for the truth of his words. Bramble Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <Xns994E98D7FE099freddybear@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > news:Jason-1306071239150001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > > > In article <1181728605.275234.304810@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> On 12 Jun., 20:28, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1181649884.050718.194...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > In article > >> > > > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ma= > >> rtin > >> > > >> > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > > God > >> > > >> > > > > God doesn't exist. > >> > > >> > > > > created mankind, he > >> > > > > > gave us free will. > >> > > >> > > > > Free will doesn't exist. > >> > > >> > > > > You're 0 for 2. > >> > > >> > > > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands > >> > > > free will, many Bible doctrines and even issues related to > >> > > > life; sociological and psychological issues--make sense. For > >> > > > example, I now understand why s= > >> ome > >> > > > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month > >> > > > each yea= > >> r in > >> > > > third world countries. I also understand why some people do > >> > > > terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > >> > > >> > > Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > >> > > people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men > >> > > who killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in > >> > > their god? > >> > > >> > > Martin > >> > > >> > Martin, > >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to > >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history where > >> > people done terrible things that they believed were pleasing to > >> > God--but were not pleasing to God. > >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >> > > >> > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >> > >> How do you know what is pleasing to god? According to your own Bible > >> god has ordered mass killing and punished those who did not obey the > >> order. You really should not second-guess god; he may not like it, > >> just as he may not like all the lies you tell. > > > > Do you think that when men fly jets into buildings and kill 3000 > > people--that it is or is not pleasing to God? In that case, it's easy > > to figure out how God feels about it. There is a commandment that > > states: Thou shall not Murder. > > > > I think that they believed that their God was pleased with them. They > read the commandment from God that says to kill the unbelievers wherever > you find them. That is true. They were following the teachings of a false God. > > -- > Fred Stone > aa# 1369 > "When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to > lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that > seemed like posturing." Quote
Guest Don Kresch Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In alt.atheism On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:03:30 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) let us all know that: >In article <f4pa1r$vpv$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that >> >>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? >> >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even this >> >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. >> >> >> >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being who, >> >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this >> >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically >> >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." >> >> >> >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. >> > >> > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by >> > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. >> >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? >> >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > >The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God She was healed by god because you say so. That doesn't fly. Don --- aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <n6h073ld1g9di7lnunsl1cnb3scf0n4fj0@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 <Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: > > >In article <5j6073t6418s8hkdp6if2lent5csp58i7s@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 > ><Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: > <...> > >> > > >> >They are different names for God. > >> > > >> "God" is a name. > > > >Good point--I should have wrote--They are different names for Yahweh. > > > > "Yahweh" is a name. > > When Moses asked (Exodus 3:14), the reply was not a name. You are correct. I seem to recall that the Bible scholars state that the actual name for God is impossible to pronouce. It's something like "I am" Jason Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1306071315590001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <f4ottt$j2u$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <1181643770.817395.36870@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, >> > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> A person that has been healed is evidence that he was healed. It is >> >> not evidence of a god. >> > >> > Yes, that is true. >> >> "The evidence that they were healed is evidence for God." > > People can believe the evidence (testimony) or reject the evidence > (testimony. A testimony is not evidence in this instance. Remember what I told you many posts ago, and you have conveniently forgotten, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Quote
Guest Jim07D7 Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >In article <f4pa1r$vpv$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that >> >>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? >> >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even this >> >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. >> >> >> >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being who, >> >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this >> >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically >> >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." >> >> >> >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. >> > >> > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by >> > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. >> >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? >> >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > >The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence that >there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal >everyone that needed to be healed. > When I was 9 years old I was hit by a car that was going over 35 mph. I was on my bike and went out in front of it, so the car hit me dead-on, in the center of its hood, at full speed. I was knocked many feet down the street, in the air. My left femur was broken and dislocated from my hip. My left arm was damaged and I had a brain concussion. I was bedridden for 2 months and on crutches for 9. I needed an operation 4 years later to make my legs eventually come out at the same length. If I had been delayed a half hour in getting to surgery, they would have amputated my leg due to the blood supply being pinched off. As it was, the doctors said I would have severe arthritis by age 30. I have lived well beyond 30 without any significant problems. I love my life. The lawsuit settlement meant I could go to college (and the doctors said I would need to, because I could not expect to be a physical laborer.) I was the first person in my family who was expected to go to college. The injury kept me out of being drafted to Vietnam -- I had a very low draft lottery number, and might otherwise be dead or be a basket case, right now. Or I might be just fine as a veteran. Who knows? There are many, many stories like mine, and many much worse (don't get me started on my going-on-2-years meralgia paresthetica, that is unrelated to the above). Does any of this make me think there is a supernatural being that gives a whit about me? No. Why should it? Does Cheryl Prewitt's story have any weight for me? Cheryl Prewitt's life may be eased by her faith. Good for her. But I base my beliefs on my own experiences. I suggest you do the same. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1306071326030001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <f4otjc$j2u$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > I was referring to these two steps: >> > >> > STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) >> > STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual >> > reproduction) >> >> And leaving out the millions of steps that came before and between. >> >> > Testimony is considered as evidence in court. Someone pointed out that >> > physical evidence (eg gun, bloody knife) is more important than >> > testimony. >> > I agreed with that person that made that statement. >> > >> > Let's say that the neighbors in an apartment building hear a married >> > couple having an argument. They hear the husband say, "I'm going to >> > kill >> > you". The argument ends and the police are not called. The following >> > day, >> > the wife was shot as she was walking home from work. The husband took a >> > shower after he shot his wife and washed his hands with bleach to >> > remove >> > any evidence. There were no witnesses present when the husband shot his >> > wife. The police are not able to find a gun when they search the >> > apartment >> > and all surrounding areas. They arrest the husband and charge him with >> > the >> > murder. All of the neighbors provide testimony at the murder trial. >> > >> > The jury members convict the husband of first degree murder--based upon >> > the testimonies of the people that heard the argument and heard him >> > say, >> > "I'm going to kill you." >> >> No, they wouldn't. You'd never even find a DA that would even think >> about arresting the guy to begin with, much less prosecuting him, based >> on simply an "I'm going to kill you." Was there even a body? >> >> > Do you now understand that TESTIMONY is evidence--even if there is no >> > physical evidence? >> >> Testimony is simply evidence that the person says he >> saw/heard/tasted/smelled/felt something but NOT evidence that the >> something actually exists.. But if the neighbor claimed "Yeah, I saw him >> shoot her and bury her body right here" and yet there was no body found >> (or better yet, the wife is actually standing there, alive and well) the >> testimony would likely be ignored. > > Let's try again: > A woman's husband is observed by 8 witnesses going inside their apartment > with a gun in his hand and shouting, "I am going to kill that woman." The > witnesses hear a gunshot and see the man running from the building. The > husband had watched over a hundred episodes of CSI and followed his plan: > He was able to get rid of all physical evidence--including the gun. The > only evidence at the murder trial is the testimony of the witnesses. The > body of the woman is found. > > If you was on the jury, would you find him guilty? I would > > Jason Let's try this again: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If a man told me that space aliens gave him a ride in their spaceship, it would require a hell of a lot more evidence than his 'testimony'! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206072106570001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <jbdu63dbf8uae5r7fv9mee2g40sb6q0ks1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:09:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-1206071509130001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <31d3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous > infidel you >> >> >> are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with >> >> >> their actions. >> >> > >> >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the > actions >> >> > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> >> >> >> "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is invalidated >> >> simply by where they live . >> > >> >I mentioned America since those 3000 people were killed in America. >> >Millions of people in other countries also realize that the actions of >> >those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> >> So you say. Apparently you never read the Old Testament. Jehovah was a >> pretty bloodthirsty tyrant. He might love the murders of 9/11 and the >> wars that happened afterward. >> >> >What is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on 9/11? >> >> They are evil. But I don't have to defend the evil acts that people do >> in the name of God. >> >> Remember, they worship the same God you do. > > They worship a God named Allah. There were some people in the Bible that > worshipped a false God named Baal. Judges 2:13. I consider Allah to be a > false God. I already know people will diagree with me. > jason How can you? They are the same god. Ironic isn't it. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1306070010510001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1181708413.361881.208590@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 13, 12:06 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <jbdu63dbf8uae5r7fv9mee2g40sb6q0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> > > Remember, they worship the same God you do. >> > >> > They worship a God named Allah. There were some people in the Bible >> > that >> > worshipped a false God named Baal. Judges 2:13. I consider Allah to be >> > a >> > false God. I already know people will diagree with me. >> >> Indeed. And what did the Hebrews do to people who worshipped that >> false god? >> >> "While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled >> themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women >> invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the >> Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. >> Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing >> the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the >> following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute >> them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn >> away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to >> execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then >> one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, >> right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were >> weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of >> Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and >> left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into >> his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body >> and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites >> was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 >> NLT)" >> >> The Moslems also think that Jehovah is a false god and they believe >> that Allah wants them to kill the followers of the false god. >> >> Now do you understand. It is RELIGION that is the problem. It >> doesn't matter WHICH one. >> >> Martin > > Martin, > The Muslims want to take over the world. They will do it by force. If > people don't become Muslims, they will kill them. The president of Iran > plans to start the next world war and he may succeed. Read the book, "The > Last Jihad". I copied this quotation from a book entitled, "Jerusalem > Countdown" > > A Muslim leader named Fayid Azzam made this statement in Brooklyn in 1989: > > "Blood must flow. There must be widows, orphans...hands and limbs must be > severed and limbs and blood must be spread everwhere in order that Allah's > religion can stand on it's feet." > > http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25136 The Christians will do the same. Read the Old Testament for a change and tell me how great your god is. One of the main reasons I left Christianity was that no supernatural god could be as stupid and have all of the human characteristics as the god of the Hebrew OT. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206072059500001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1181695356.967104.238440@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 13, 4:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <Xns994D94878C66Ffreddyb...@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > <fston...@earthling.com> wrote: >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > >news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: >> > >> > > > In article <5d83hcF31q6f...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> > > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > > >>news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > >> > In article >> > > >> > <1181649884.050718.194...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > >> > Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> >> > In article >> > > >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > >> >> > Martin >> > >> > > >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> >> > > > God >> > >> > > >> >> > > God doesn't exist. >> > >> > > >> >> > > created mankind, he >> > > >> >> > > > gave us free will. >> > >> > > >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. >> > >> > > >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. >> > >> > > >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands >> > > >> >> > free >> > > >> >> > will, many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; >> > > >> >> > sociological and psychological issues--make sense. For >> > > >> >> > example, >> > > >> >> > I now understand why some >> > > >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month >> > > >> >> > each year in >> > > >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do >> > > >> >> > terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. >> > >> > > >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing >> > > >> >> ten >> > > >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men >> > > >> >> who >> > > >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in >> > > >> >> their god? >> > >> > > >> >> Martin >> > >> > > >> > Martin, >> > > >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. >> > > >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to >> > > >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history >> > > >> > where >> > > >> > people done terrible things that they believed were pleasing to >> > > >> > God--but were not pleasing to God. >> > >> > > >> Who are you to judge? >> > >> > > > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people >> > > > on >> > > > 9/11. >> > >> > > It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous infidel >> > > you >> > > are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with >> > > their actions. >> > >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the >> > actions >> > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> >> We'd let Jehovah and Allah fight it out amongst themselves if either >> of them existed. >> >> By the way, Genesis 1 says "El" created the universe and mankind but >> Genesis 2 says it was "Yahweh". >> >> Martin > > Martin, > Do you have the verses? El may be one of the many names of God. > Jason Jason, can you tell me why your god goes under different names. For instance, god and Lord. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1306070022570001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1181708123.776350.23860@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 13, 11:59 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1181695356.967104.238...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > On Jun 13, 4:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <Xns994D94878C66Ffreddyb...@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone >> > >> > > > <fston...@earthling.com> wrote: >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > > >news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: >> > >> > > > > > In article <5d83hcF31q6f...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> > > > > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > >> > > > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > > > > >>news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > > > >> > In article > <1181649884.050718.194...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > > > >> > Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > > > >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > In article >> > > > > >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > > > >> >> > Martin >> > >> > > > > >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > > > God >> > >> > > > > >> >> > > God doesn't exist. >> > >> > > > > >> >> > > created mankind, he >> > > > > >> >> > > > gave us free will. >> > >> > > > > >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. >> > >> > > > > >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. >> > >> > > > > >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person > understands free >> > > > > >> >> > will, many Bible doctrines and even issues related to >> > > > > >> >> > life; >> > > > > >> >> > sociological and psychological issues--make sense. For > example, >> > > > > >> >> > I now understand why some >> > > > > >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a >> > > > > >> >> > month >> > > > > >> >> > each year in >> > > > > >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people >> > > > > >> >> > do >> > > > > >> >> > terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. >> > >> > > > > >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of > killing ten >> > > > > >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the > men who >> > > > > >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed >> > > > > >> >> in >> > > > > >> >> their god? >> > >> > > > > >> >> Martin >> > >> > > > > >> > Martin, >> > > > > >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. >> > > > > >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to >> > > > > >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history >> > > > > >> > where >> > > > > >> > people done terrible things that they believed were pleasing >> > > > > >> > to >> > > > > >> > God--but were not pleasing to God. >> > >> > > > > >> Who are you to judge? >> > >> > > > > > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 >> > > > > > people on >> > > > > > 9/11. >> > >> > > > > It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous > infidel you >> > > > > are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah >> > > > > with >> > > > > their actions. >> > >> > > > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the > actions >> > > > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. >> > >> > > We'd let Jehovah and Allah fight it out amongst themselves if either >> > > of them existed. >> > >> > > By the way, Genesis 1 says "El" created the universe and mankind but >> > > Genesis 2 says it was "Yahweh". >> >> > Do you have the verses? El may be one of the many names of God. >> >> In fact, Genesis 1 talks about the Elohim, which means "gods", in >> plural. (e.g. Genesis 6:2, "... the sons of Elohim saw the daughters >> of men that they were fair; and they took them for wives... ,") >> >> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim >> >> Martin > > This is in reference to the intermarriage among the Cainites and Sethites. > The Cainites were sinful, evil people and the Sethites were devoted and > consecrated to God. God became very upset with the Sethites for taking > Cainite women as their wives since God wanted them to only marry Sethite > women. > > I copied most of the above info. from a footnote in my study Bible. > Jason If that is what you think that says you had better get you a new study bible. The reference is that the gods were cavorting with humans. This is quite common in mythology and was common behavior for the gods of the Hebrew bible. Quote
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