Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206072004470001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <nocu63t7m5lckkpctjabhghvrbj10nrdap@4ax.com>, John Baker > <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote: > >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:53:45 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >In article <598u63h6roisvahm7r403qevrl451fr95v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:24:29 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-1206071024300001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <5d7uaoF331s2lU2@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in >> >> >> >> >> >> snip >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Martin, >> >> >> > If I provided physical evidence that indicates that her leg bone > grew 2 >> >> >> > inches, would you believe that God healed her leg? >> >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> >> >> Of course not. Most importantly, you'd have to prove that your > god exists >> >> >> and does anything. >> >> > >> >> >That's the reason that I did not try to find the information on the >> >> >web. >> >> > >> >> Because you know that you cannot provide any evidence that your God >> >> exists. >> >> >> >> Despite that, you reject actual evidence. Why? Who taught you to be so >> >> dishonest? >> > >> >I do not reject all evidence. You reject evidence (testimony) that >> >Cheryl's leg bone grew 2 inches. >> >> This isn't evidence. It's a claim, made by you, that you have thus far >> not supported. You've lied about so many other things, I think it's >> safe to assume you're most probably lying about this as well. > > Would you like for me to post her testimony again. She stated that she > watched her leg bone grow two inches? Her testimony isn't evidence! Once again, all together, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!!! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1206072015450001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <cvdu63l6rvv5sadoco7rih3bt3vjejschk@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:06:25 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-1106072206250001@66-52-22-96.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article >> ><DipthotDipthot-9E058D.18284311062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > >> >> In article >> >> <Jason-1106071747150001@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > the alternative is "she told the truth to a lot of people then." >> >> >> >> If that were the case, reliable corroborating evidence would be >> >> plentiful. >> >> >> >> You, being so determined to demonstrate the veracity of this little >> >> story, should be able to provide same. >> >> >> >> You cannot; ergo, there's no reason to believe you. >> > >> >Several have told me they would not believe that she was healed by >> >God--regardless of the physical evidence. So--why should I waste my time >> >finding physical evidence. I already know that she was healed by God so >> >I >> >don't need to find physical evidence. >> >> Once again, you are lying to us. We will accept evidence that she was as >> severely impaired as you say and that she was healed. We will not accept >> your unsubstantiated assertion that this healing, if it happened, came >> from God. >> >> You need to provide evidence of the healing AND you need to provide >> evidence that the healing came from God. You haven't made the slightest >> attempt to provide such evidence. Why not? Is it because you know that >> you have absolutely no evidence that God had anything to do with it? > > I understand your point. No, I can not produce a video tape showing God > coming down from heaven and healing her leg. It appears that is the sort > of evidence that you are looking for---Sorry--I was wrong--you would > probably say that was not good enough since those evil Christians hired an > actor to play the role of God. Tell you what Jason, you produce the tape and we'll let you know if it is real :-). Once more, with gusto, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1181699263.750690.39800@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 13, 7:58 am, "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1181691449.474813.233740@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Jun 13, 1:41 am, "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >>news:Jason-1206071021200001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> > In article <1181646992.799917.21...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12 Jun., 02:47, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article >> >> >> > <1181601347.999940.35...@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> > > > <Jason-1006071559590...@66-52-22-36.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> >> >> > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > > She has >> >> >> > > > > witnessed to thousands of people. >> >> >> >> > > Wow. She's lied to a lot of people then. I find that >> >> >> > > completely >> >> >> > > and >> >> >> > > utterly morally reprehensible. It is also typical Godbot >> >> >> > > behaviour. >> >> >> >> > > Martin >> >> >> >> > the alternative is "she told the truth to a lot of people then." >> >> >> >> For which you have absolutely no objective evidence. You have even >> >> >> pretty well made it clear that you believe it because you want to. >> >> >> If >> >> >> one is a rational being, objective evidence is something that has >> >> >> to >> >> >> be accepted, whether we like what it supports or not; but you >> >> >> believe >> >> >> because you want to and, supposedly, reject evidence that does not >> >> >> support what you like. This makes you irrational and dishonest. >> >> >> > Do you have objective evidence that time and physics did not exist >> >> > prior >> >> > to the Big Bang? >> >> >> Mathematics says it didn't. >> >> > It's more than mathematics. The big bang apparently happened and >> > inflationary theory explains how it happened. Even without >> > inflationary theory we have the second law of thermodynamics which >> > tells us that the big bang was the beginning of time. Even with all >> > this, it is still reasonable to suppose that it wasn't a "first cause" >> > in that one would suppose that there had to be existing preconditions >> > that made the big bang possible in the first place. >> >> I understand what was involved. I just don't intend to waste my time and >> a >> willful fool like Jason. > > Answering his stupid questions is fun. It's when he accuses him of > not answering him that I get pissed off. That plus the fact that he > never bothers to answer any of OUR questions, saying "I don't have my > chemistry text anymore" or "I donated that book to a second hand book > store". > >> >> > Do you have objective evidence that these are two of the steps >> >> > involved >> >> > in >> >> > the evolution of mankind: >> >> > STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) >> >> > STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual >> >> > reproduction). >> >> >> Those aren't the steps of evolution. Why do you continue to be so >> >> ignorant? >> >> > Okay, look, I have to say that it is a bit ironic for you to claim >> > that the gradual change over several generations of a bacteria like >> > cell into an ameoba like cell is not evolution in action. >> >> Simple Martin, because it wasn't STEP 1 and STEP 2. > > STEP 1.0 and STEP 2.0? It's a recipe for mankind. Just add heat and > water and wait 3.5 billion years. > > Martin It was the long step that Jason was missing :-). Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 [snips] On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:17:37 -0700, Jason wrote: >> Gosh Jason, what do you see when you look at the sick and dying? Evidence of >> god's love? There are natural explanations for the stars in the sky. With >> the vast universe we have aren't you a little surprised that the only >> mention of anything being created outside of out tiny solar system is the >> short sentence, 'and he created the stars'? > > The Bible is not a cosmology text book. You read what he wrote, but you completely failed to understand it. You cherry picked two words and responded to those, ignoring the rest and the whole point to his statements. One is forced to wonder if you're not in full-out retreat mode now, since you seem to be running from anything and everything which might actually make you have to think. -- We got you, Jesse. You belong to us now. - David Rice Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 On 13 jun, 21:49, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1181759527.190743.38...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bramble > > > > > > <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 13 jun, 00:37, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1181683568.769547.221...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > bramble <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 12 jun, 15:20, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On 12 Jun., 08:12, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > But the parents are not responsible for the behavior of an adult > > > > > > > competent child. They may regret have given birth to that > child, but > > > > > > > they are not legally responsible for his actions after attaining > > > > > > > majority. They may have raised him in a way that led him to > commit his > > > > > > > crimes, but that is a psychological issue rather than a legal > one. It > > > > > > > might be a moral issue, depending on how they raised him. > > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > cactus, > > > > > > My point was that God is like the parents. > > > > > > What utter nonsense! The parents are not all-powerful. They cannot > > > > > possibly be responsible for everything the child does. > > > > > > In much the same way the > > > > > > > parents were indirectly responsible for the murder since the > murder would > > > > > > not have happened if the son had never been born--God is indirectly > > > > > > responsible for evil, since evil would never have happened if > God had not > > > > > > created the solar system and life. > > > > > > Your analogy is transparently invalid. > > > > > If parents would had the ability to change for the better the behavior > > > > of his son, he would surely do it. We want that he would be free, but > > > > free to drive a reasonable life. We, as parents, do no want our kids > > > > to fall into a pool of shit. > > > > But, sometimes, we are too busy or we are not enough vlever, and our > > > > kids began to show bad a attitude, and we do not know how to change or > > > > reverse this. > > > > If we were like gods, our kids would have freedom to behave in a nice > > > > manner and to keep out of trouble. But we are not gods. > > > > So, go is a very bad parent. And this analogy posited by Jason is not > > > > valid. > > > > If there is a god, he would surely change all that. And this is one > > > > of the proves that there is not any god. > > > > Bramble > > > > God could have created robots that were programmed by God to do only kind > > > and wonderful things and never do bad things such as murder. Instead of > > > creating programmed robots, God created people that had free will. People > > > will eventually be judged by God in relation to how they used their free > > > will. Did they love God or turn their backs on God? Did they violate God's > > > commandments or follow the commandments? Did they love or hate? Did they > > > do good or evil? etc. > > > Jason > > > Hi, Jason, my dear. > > I am glad to hear you saying fooly things. > > There is not any need for a god to create robots. > > By example, "god" put limits to our capacity and abilities, isn't > > it? > > By example, we cannot feed ourselves by grazing like cows. We cannot > > swim or go fishing like we were dolphins, we cannot fly like the > > albatross or the geese for thousand of miles, and so on. > > So, these animals are not robots. > > > I told you in another post, that you are unable to do certain things. > > There is something inside your mind that make you unable to do it, or > > even wish it. Isn't so? > > In general, I suppose you are not molesting kids, > > you are not a serial killer, > > you are not holding up banks, > > you are probably not betting casinos in Las Vegas, > > you are not fornicating with other men, > > and so on. > > Now, here comes out the question. > > > Do you think that you are behaving like you were a robot? > > If your god were a good father, as religious people like to posit, > > He would had made us incapable of doing bad things. > > All we could have been able to do, were to behave correctly, as most > > of the people do. > > By behaving correctly, I am not testing positive of being a robot. > > Are you a robot, Jason? Must of us are not robots. Our behavior is > > unpredictable to a certain point. We cannot be 100% sure, what will > > be our next movement. So we are not robots. > > Religious people speak about "temptations". They must be mild, those > > temptations, Jason. Sometimes, we like a little bit the wife of our > > neighbor, but most of us do not need to fight the urge of gropping her > > bottocks. > > Perhaps, we feel a little envy, for someone who earn a lot of money. > > But our sins rarely go farther than that. > > So, the people who behave properly, and had not any sort of > > temptation, I grave or serious temptations, can be called "robotic"? > > Do you think, that any ordinary folk, can be called robotic, because > > they have not serious or "punishable by prision" wishes? > > You have to find a different argument, dear Jason. > > This one is not good. > > Bramble > > Bramble, > You are discussing free will. No, I do not believe I am behaving like I > was a robot. You may have read about a famous television evangelist named > Jimmy Swaggart. He played the role of an excellent Christian but enjoyed > having sex with prostitutes. Some of the prostitutes told their stories to > the reporters from a gossip magazine. If he had been like a robot, he > would not have had sex with prostitutes. We have to deal with all sorts of > temptations. We usually do not sin but in some cases we do sin. It's > difficult not to think about sex when a young beautiful girl wearing a > bathing suit walks in front of me. Needless to say, humans are not > anything like robots. All people have free will. > jason Reverend Swaggart was having sex with male prostitutes because he had a prowerful drive to do it. He was forced to do it. Every normal person has not this compulsions. But some people have them. If he were not feeling a powerful compulsion to do that, he would not had been thrown into this mess. So, this is not a prove of the existence of free will. It is only the prove that some people is hiding their forbidden impulses. Just think for a moment of Saudi Arabia. There, sodomites are beheaded. Every year, a number of sodomites are beheaded in the public place. In Iran they are hanged in public. And in our not so distant Christian past, they were put in prison. A little farther in time, Christians were hunging them, and some centuries ago, the loving Christian were burning them in public fires. Even if Jesus himself saiys not any word about this in the NT. How would these sodomites would dare to risk their lives, if were not driven by a compulsive force? Any normal person is very unlikely to be caught in these nefarous activities. Or perhaps, are you assuming that everybody have has sodomitic tendencies? That everybody is tempted with the wish of copulating with a person of his own sex? Perhaps many priests are in this case, as proved by the news. But the rest? Are most ordinary males driven for the lust of other men? So, if you have not any wish whatever to do such an act, you cannot have a free will. You will never desire to act this way. You are limited. You cannot act against your own nature. So you have not free will. So, to my mind, Swagger was only carried by his own powerful secret desires. Most people is honest, to a certain point. They never do any shoplifting. Why? They not feel this compulsion to do it. How hard is to fight hidden and powerful impulses? I don't know. Each case can be different. Bramble Quote
Guest saltan-s2007@hotmail.com Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Jason : > In article <1181695356.967104.238440@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 13, 4:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <Xns994D94878C66Ffreddyb...@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <fston...@earthling.com> wrote: > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > >news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > > > > > > > > In article <5d83hcF31q6f...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > > > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > >>news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > >> > In article <1181649884.050718.194...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > >> > Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > >> >> > In article > > > > >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > >> >> > Martin > > > > > > > >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > >> >> > > > God > > > > > > > >> >> > > God doesn't exist. > > > > > > > >> >> > > created mankind, he > > > > >> >> > > > gave us free will. > > > > > > > >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. > > > > > > > >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. > > > > > > > >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free > > > > >> >> > will, many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; > > > > >> >> > sociological and psychological issues--make sense. For example, > > > > >> >> > I now understand why some > > > > >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month > > > > >> >> > each year in > > > > >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do > > > > >> >> > terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > > > > > > > >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > > > > >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who > > > > >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in > > > > >> >> their god? > > > > > > > >> >> Martin > > > > > > > >> > Martin, > > > > >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > > > > >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to > > > > >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history where > > > > >> > people done terrible things that they believed were pleasing to > > > > >> > God--but were not pleasing to God. > > > > > > > >> Who are you to judge? > > > > > > > > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people on > > > > > 9/11. > > > > > > > It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous infidel you > > > > are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with > > > > their actions. > > > > > > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the actions > > > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > > > > We'd let Jehovah and Allah fight it out amongst themselves if either > > of them existed. > > > > By the way, Genesis 1 says "El" created the universe and mankind but > > Genesis 2 says it was "Yahweh". > > > > Martin > > Martin, > Do you have the verses? El may be one of the many names of God. > Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <odl0739cjhpq0mo1kcpo2lpbbjo6mgj263@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 <Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: > > >In article <n6h073ld1g9di7lnunsl1cnb3scf0n4fj0@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 > ><Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: > >> > >> >In article <5j6073t6418s8hkdp6if2lent5csp58i7s@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 > >> ><Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: > >> <...> > >> >> > > >> >> >They are different names for God. > >> >> > > >> >> "God" is a name. > >> > > >> >Good point--I should have wrote--They are different names for Yahweh. > >> > > >> > >> "Yahweh" is a name. > >> > >> When Moses asked (Exodus 3:14), the reply was not a name. > > > >You are correct. > > > >I seem to recall that the Bible scholars state that the actual name for > >God is impossible to pronouce. It's something like "I am" > >Jason > > I believe that on this subject, silence is appropriate. agreed Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-1306071710560001@66-52-22-38.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <UbZbi.6115$K8.1376@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-1306070010510001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <1181708413.361881.208590@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 13, 12:06 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <jbdu63dbf8uae5r7fv9mee2g40sb6q0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > Remember, they worship the same God you do. >> >> > >> >> > They worship a God named Allah. There were some people in the Bible >> >> > that >> >> > worshipped a false God named Baal. Judges 2:13. I consider Allah to >> >> > be >> >> > a >> >> > false God. I already know people will diagree with me. >> >> >> >> Indeed. And what did the Hebrews do to people who worshipped that >> >> false god? >> >> >> >> "While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled >> >> themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women >> >> invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the >> >> Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. >> >> Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing >> >> the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the >> >> following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute >> >> them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn >> >> away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to >> >> execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then >> >> one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, >> >> right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were >> >> weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of >> >> Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and >> >> left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into >> >> his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body >> >> and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites >> >> was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 >> >> NLT)" >> >> >> >> The Moslems also think that Jehovah is a false god and they believe >> >> that Allah wants them to kill the followers of the false god. >> >> >> >> Now do you understand. It is RELIGION that is the problem. It >> >> doesn't matter WHICH one. >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > Martin, >> > The Muslims want to take over the world. They will do it by force. If >> > people don't become Muslims, they will kill them. The president of Iran >> > plans to start the next world war and he may succeed. Read the book, >> > "The >> > Last Jihad". I copied this quotation from a book entitled, "Jerusalem >> > Countdown" >> > >> > A Muslim leader named Fayid Azzam made this statement in Brooklyn in >> > 1989: >> > >> > "Blood must flow. There must be widows, orphans...hands and limbs must >> > be >> > severed and limbs and blood must be spread everwhere in order that >> > Allah's >> > religion can stand on it's feet." >> > >> > http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25136 >> >> The Christians will do the same. Read the Old Testament for a change and >> tell me how great your god is. One of the main reasons I left >> Christianity >> was that no supernatural god could be as stupid and have all of the human >> characteristics as the god of the Hebrew OT. > > I read those same scriptures and learned that in some cases wars are > necessary. Examine the history of America. We dropped two Nuclear bombs on > Japan. America killed lots of people on that day. Are you still an > American? We would all now be speaking German if Hitler had not been > defeated in a world war. If we are not willing to fight the Muslims, in > less than 50 years--our offspring will either have to bow down to Mecca > each day or they will have their heads chopped off. The president of Iran > recently made this statement: "Israel must be wiped off the map of the > world." Been nice chatting with you, Jason. It has been a long time since I talked with someone who was as obtuse as you without attempting to be. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <WgYbi.3170$s8.2400@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1306071303300001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <f4pa1r$vpv$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> [snips] > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated > >> >>> that > >> >>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > >> >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even > >> >> this > >> >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. > >> >> > >> >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being > >> >> who, > >> >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match > >> >> this > >> >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > >> >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > >> >> > >> >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > >> > > >> > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > >> > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > >> > >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? > >> > >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your > >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > > > > The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence that > > there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > > everyone that needed to be healed. > > Mighty convenient Jason, your god doesn't heal all just select ones. I guess > you need it that way to fit what we all know to be reality. If God healed all people of all medical problems--people would never die. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <sam073dn8eh5it09inftc55ptjs0o77qpf@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 <Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: > > >In article <f4pa1r$vpv$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> [snips] > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > >> >>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > >> >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even this > >> >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. > >> >> > >> >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being who, > >> >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this > >> >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > >> >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > >> >> > >> >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > >> > > >> > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > >> > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > >> > >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? > >> > >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your > >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > > > >The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence that > >there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > >everyone that needed to be healed. > > > When I was 9 years old I was hit by a car that was going over 35 mph. > I was on my bike and went out in front of it, so the car hit me > dead-on, in the center of its hood, at full speed. I was knocked many > feet down the street, in the air. My left femur was broken and > dislocated from my hip. My left arm was damaged and I had a brain > concussion. I was bedridden for 2 months and on crutches for 9. I > needed an operation 4 years later to make my legs eventually come out > at the same length. If I had been delayed a half hour in getting to > surgery, they would have amputated my leg due to the blood supply > being pinched off. As it was, the doctors said I would have severe > arthritis by age 30. > > I have lived well beyond 30 without any significant problems. I love > my life. The lawsuit settlement meant I could go to college (and the > doctors said I would need to, because I could not expect to be a > physical laborer.) I was the first person in my family who was > expected to go to college. > > The injury kept me out of being drafted to Vietnam -- I had a very low > draft lottery number, and might otherwise be dead or be a basket case, > right now. Or I might be just fine as a veteran. Who knows? > > There are many, many stories like mine, and many much worse (don't get > me started on my going-on-2-years meralgia paresthetica, that is > unrelated to the above). > > Does any of this make me think there is a supernatural being that > gives a whit about me? No. Why should it? > > Does Cheryl Prewitt's story have any weight for me? Cheryl Prewitt's > life may be eased by her faith. Good for her. But I base my beliefs on > my own experiences. I suggest you do the same. Thanks for the advice. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <O3Zbi.6110$K8.4366@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1306071315590001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <f4ottt$j2u$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > In article <1181643770.817395.36870@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > >> > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> A person that has been healed is evidence that he was healed. It is > >> >> not evidence of a god. > >> > > >> > Yes, that is true. > >> > >> "The evidence that they were healed is evidence for God." > > > > People can believe the evidence (testimony) or reject the evidence > > (testimony. > > A testimony is not evidence in this instance. Remember what I told you many > posts ago, and you have conveniently forgotten, extraordinary claims require > extraordinary evidence. Yes, I remember. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <46n0735npa5v05vudinp6rpte4i50rr7p3@4ax.com>, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > In alt.atheism On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:03:30 -0700, Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) let us all know that: > > >In article <f4pa1r$vpv$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > In article <opc3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> [snips] > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > >> >>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > >> >> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even this > >> >> much yet - simply isn't known yet. > >> >> > >> >> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super being who, > >> >> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this > >> >> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > >> >> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > >> >> > >> >> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > >> > > >> > Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > >> > healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > >> > >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? > >> > >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your > >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > > > >The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God > > She was healed by god because you say so. That doesn't fly. Cheryl Prewitt told me that she was healed by God. She stated that she saw her leg bone grow two inches. I believed her testimony. She has gave her testimony at many different churches. Her name is mentioned on over 700 websites. I misspelled her name when I did the google search and the result was about 25 websites. Jason > > > Don > --- > aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde > Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. > > "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" > Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <1181768484.517548.156770@e26g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, bramble <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 jun, 21:26, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <f4otjc$j2...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > > > > Testimony is simply evidence that the person says he > > > saw/heard/tasted/smelled/felt something but NOT evidence that the > > > something actually exists.. But if the neighbor claimed "Yeah, I saw him > > > shoot her and bury her body right here" and yet there was no body found > > > (or better yet, the wife is actually standing there, alive and well) the > > > testimony would likely be ignored. > > > > Let's try again: > > A woman's husband is observed by 8 witnesses going inside their apartment > > with a gun in his hand and shouting, "I am going to kill that woman." The > > witnesses hear a gunshot and see the man running from the building. The > > husband had watched over a hundred episodes of CSI and followed his plan: > > He was able to get rid of all physical evidence--including the gun. The > > only evidence at the murder trial is the testimony of the witnesses. The > > body of the woman is found. > > > > If you was on the jury, would you find him guilty? I would > > > > Jason > > Jason, Jason: > You are establishing an analogy with a court trial that is a wrong > one. > In general the cases studied in a trial are rather common criminal > cases. > In those cases, the personal testimonies are heard. But this is not a > guarantee that the declaration of the jury corresponds with the > truth. It is only a practical mechanism for judging an accused. It > is not a guarantee of anything. > > So, in the case of miracles, we need more than a simple jury. > Extraordinary claims, demand extraordinary proves. And you have heard > this many times in your life. But you do not care, for you are trying > to fool others. > I am begining to think that you are not honest, Jason. You are very > good at positting your arguments, but they are worthless mostly. You > have to know that. So you are playing the false prophet, Jason. A > prophet that does not care for the truth of his words. > Bramble Bramble, You are leaving out an important issue--several different posters told me that even if I produced info. about physical evidence that proved her leg bone grew two inches--they still would not be convinced that God healed her. I ask you Bramble--what good would it do for me to spend time visiting websites in search of information about physical evidence? If you were in my shoes, would you waste time finding evidence? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <t5Zbi.6111$K8.440@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1306071326030001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <f4otjc$j2u$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > I was referring to these two steps: > >> > > >> > STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) > >> > STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual > >> > reproduction) > >> > >> And leaving out the millions of steps that came before and between. > >> > >> > Testimony is considered as evidence in court. Someone pointed out that > >> > physical evidence (eg gun, bloody knife) is more important than > >> > testimony. > >> > I agreed with that person that made that statement. > >> > > >> > Let's say that the neighbors in an apartment building hear a married > >> > couple having an argument. They hear the husband say, "I'm going to > >> > kill > >> > you". The argument ends and the police are not called. The following > >> > day, > >> > the wife was shot as she was walking home from work. The husband took a > >> > shower after he shot his wife and washed his hands with bleach to > >> > remove > >> > any evidence. There were no witnesses present when the husband shot his > >> > wife. The police are not able to find a gun when they search the > >> > apartment > >> > and all surrounding areas. They arrest the husband and charge him with > >> > the > >> > murder. All of the neighbors provide testimony at the murder trial. > >> > > >> > The jury members convict the husband of first degree murder--based upon > >> > the testimonies of the people that heard the argument and heard him > >> > say, > >> > "I'm going to kill you." > >> > >> No, they wouldn't. You'd never even find a DA that would even think > >> about arresting the guy to begin with, much less prosecuting him, based > >> on simply an "I'm going to kill you." Was there even a body? > >> > >> > Do you now understand that TESTIMONY is evidence--even if there is no > >> > physical evidence? > >> > >> Testimony is simply evidence that the person says he > >> saw/heard/tasted/smelled/felt something but NOT evidence that the > >> something actually exists.. But if the neighbor claimed "Yeah, I saw him > >> shoot her and bury her body right here" and yet there was no body found > >> (or better yet, the wife is actually standing there, alive and well) the > >> testimony would likely be ignored. > > > > Let's try again: > > A woman's husband is observed by 8 witnesses going inside their apartment > > with a gun in his hand and shouting, "I am going to kill that woman." The > > witnesses hear a gunshot and see the man running from the building. The > > husband had watched over a hundred episodes of CSI and followed his plan: > > He was able to get rid of all physical evidence--including the gun. The > > only evidence at the murder trial is the testimony of the witnesses. The > > body of the woman is found. > > > > If you was on the jury, would you find him guilty? I would > > > > Jason > > Let's try this again: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. > If a man told me that space aliens gave him a ride in their spaceship, it > would require a hell of a lot more evidence than his 'testimony'! good point--however--if he had evidence---such an implanted computer chip made out of an element not found on the earth--would you be more likely to believe him? In this case, the evidence is a normal leg that is the same size of the other leg bone--despite an operation that caused two inches of leg bone to be removed. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <1181767645.983506.69030@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bramble <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 jun, 21:01, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <7f50735gqg9n7ifa3ib8ucmhc2t0jd9...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > > > > > > <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:48:04 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >On 12 Jun., 19:42, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> In article <1181643770.817395.36...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> > On 11 Jun., 21:54, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > In article <0de0k4-blk....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > >snip > > > > > >> > A person that has been healed is evidence that he was healed. It is > > > >> > not evidence of a god. > > > > > >> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > > > >> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened?- > > > > > >I would not be able to explain it, and that is not evidence that god > > > >did it. > > > > > But then, Jason isn't about to provide any evidence either..... > > > > Why bother--several have told me that if I provided physical evidence to > > prove that her leg bone grew two inches, they would still not believe that > > God healed her leg. > > > You are asking for imposibles, Jason. Dismissing the posibility of a > cooked fraude... yes, frauds happens all the times. Well, dismissing > the case of fraud, we are in front of an unexplained phenomenon. A > phenomenon that we cannot explain is not the prove of any divine > intervention. Just, we cannot yet explain the rain. We supose it is > a natural phenomenon, bur it cannot be explained yet. Well, there is > a lot of phenomenons we cannot explain. But these can be atributed to > god by some people. But others simple confess "we cannot understand > it or explain it." So, if this lady's leg really grew two inches, it > is all right. But this is not the prove of an action on the part of > God. > In the past, all calamites were called, acts of god. Hurricanes, > tornados, huge floods, persitent raining, droughts, earthquakes, > sunamies... you name them. > Acts of god. A very malevolent one, but the way. > Bramble If her leg bone grew two inches--how would you explain how it happened? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <1181766366.986836.111590@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, bramble <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 jun, 20:39, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1181728605.275234.304...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 12 Jun., 20:28, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1181649884.050718.194...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ma= > > > rtin > > > > > > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > God > > > > > > > > > God doesn't exist. > > > > > > > > > created mankind, he > > > > > > > > gave us free will. > > > > > > > > > Free will doesn't exist. > > > > > > > > > You're 0 for 2. > > > > > > > > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands free will, > > > > > > many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; sociological and > > > > > > psychological issues--make sense. For example, I now understand why s= > > > ome > > > > > > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month each yea= > > > r in > > > > > > third world countries. I also understand why some people do terrible > > > > > > things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > > > > > > > Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing ten > > > > > people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men who > > > > > killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in their > > > > > god? > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > Martin, > > > > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > > > > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to God--but they > > > > are wrong. You can find many cases in history where people done terrible > > > > things that they believed were pleasing to God--but were not pleasing to > > > > God. > > > > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > How do you know what is pleasing to god? According to your own Bible > > > god has ordered mass killing and punished those who did not obey the > > > order. You really should not second-guess god; he may not like it, > > > just as he may not like all the lies you tell. > > > > Do you think that when men fly jets into buildings and kill 3000 > > people--that it is or is not pleasing to God? In that case, it's easy to > > figure out how God feels about it. There is a commandment that states: > > Thou shall not Murder. > > > This had not troubled Christians to fight each other for religious > reasons. > On the other hand, this guys were Muslims and they thought they were > doing th right thing. The quram advices to kill infidels for several > reasons. So the people in the towers and the Pentagon were infidels. > This cna happen any time, with holy books that advice fidels that god > ordered to kill populations for this reason or the other. > Bramble Good point Quote
Guest Jim07D7 Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >In article <kcl073dt9rn8ee6oi20du1gorav3m5g5i9@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 ><Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: >> >> >It's >> >difficult not to think about sex when a young beautiful girl wearing a >> >bathing suit walks in front of me. >> >> Could you elaborate on that? > >No--not really. I now avoid going to the beach. It was easier in the old >days when women wore 1 piece bathing suits. Have you been to a beach or >swimming pool in recent years? I swam with the stingrays at Grand Cayman Island in February. There were women in bikinis, but they were not foremost in my mind. ;-) Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <i9Zbi.6114$K8.3101@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206072106570001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <jbdu63dbf8uae5r7fv9mee2g40sb6q0ks1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:09:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-1206071509130001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <31d3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> [snips] > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous > > infidel you > >> >> >> are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with > >> >> >> their actions. > >> >> > > >> >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the > > actions > >> >> > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > >> >> > >> >> "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is invalidated > >> >> simply by where they live . > >> > > >> >I mentioned America since those 3000 people were killed in America. > >> >Millions of people in other countries also realize that the actions of > >> >those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > >> > >> So you say. Apparently you never read the Old Testament. Jehovah was a > >> pretty bloodthirsty tyrant. He might love the murders of 9/11 and the > >> wars that happened afterward. > >> > >> >What is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on 9/11? > >> > >> They are evil. But I don't have to defend the evil acts that people do > >> in the name of God. > >> > >> Remember, they worship the same God you do. > > > > They worship a God named Allah. There were some people in the Bible that > > worshipped a false God named Baal. Judges 2:13. I consider Allah to be a > > false God. I already know people will diagree with me. > > jason > > How can you? They are the same god. Ironic isn't it. If you choose to believe that Jehovah and Allah are the same God--that is up to you. I consider Baal and Allah to be false Gods. Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:34:04 -0700, Jason wrote: >> I do know what is in several other books I read. And if I look through >> this heap of books behind me (at the moment quite literally a heap) I >> might even find one I am referring to. >> >> I don't point to books and say "Read this, the evidence is there. I >> don't know what is in it, but the evidence is there". >> >> And that is EXACTLY what you were doing. >> >> >> Tokay > > That is partly true but you left out that I read Dr. Gish's fossil book. > > I also read most of a book entitled, "The Bible Has All the Answers" by > Dr. Henry Morris --the founder of ICR. I still have that book. The point isn't whether you have the book, but whether you can put forth your arguments. Even still owning the book, you can't; you persist in "is too" as it that will somehow be convincing. -- Wait on God - Phil Morrison Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In article <5dZbi.6117$K8.4679@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1206072059500001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1181695356.967104.238440@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 13, 4:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <Xns994D94878C66Ffreddyb...@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > <fston...@earthling.com> wrote: > >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> > >news:Jason-1206071222580001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > >> > > >> > > > In article <5d83hcF31q6f...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >> > > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> > > >>news:Jason-1206071128330001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > > >> > In article > >> > > >> > <1181649884.050718.194...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> > > >> > Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> >> On Jun 12, 1:22 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > >> >> > In article > >> > > >> >> > <1181611488.232237.92...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > >> > > >> >> > Martin > >> > > >> > > >> >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> > > On Jun 12, 8:31 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > >> >> > > > God > >> > > >> > > >> >> > > God doesn't exist. > >> > > >> > > >> >> > > created mankind, he > >> > > >> >> > > > gave us free will. > >> > > >> > > >> >> > > Free will doesn't exist. > >> > > >> > > >> >> > > You're 0 for 2. > >> > > >> > > >> >> > I disagree--Free Will does exist. Once a person understands > >> > > >> >> > free > >> > > >> >> > will, many Bible doctrines and even issues related to life; > >> > > >> >> > sociological and psychological issues--make sense. For > >> > > >> >> > example, > >> > > >> >> > I now understand why some > >> > > >> >> > people do wonderful thing such as doctors that spend a month > >> > > >> >> > each year in > >> > > >> >> > third world countries. I also understand why some people do > >> > > >> >> > terrible things such as becoming murderers or rapists. > >> > > >> > > >> >> Are you still telling us that you would be capable of killing > >> > > >> >> ten > >> > > >> >> people a day if you didn't believe in God? What about the men > >> > > >> >> who > >> > > >> >> killed 3000 people on September 11th because they believed in > >> > > >> >> their god? > >> > > >> > > >> >> Martin > >> > > >> > > >> > Martin, > >> > > >> > Those people that do such things are not pleasing to God. > >> > > >> > They may believe or think that their actions are pleasing to > >> > > >> > God--but they are wrong. You can find many cases in history > >> > > >> > where > >> > > >> > people done terrible things that they believed were pleasing to > >> > > >> > God--but were not pleasing to God. > >> > > >> > > >> Who are you to judge? > >> > > >> > > > It's easy to judge the actions of the men that killed 3000 people > >> > > > on > >> > > > 9/11. > >> > > >> > > It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous infidel > >> > > you > >> > > are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with > >> > > their actions. > >> > > >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the > >> > actions > >> > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > >> > >> We'd let Jehovah and Allah fight it out amongst themselves if either > >> of them existed. > >> > >> By the way, Genesis 1 says "El" created the universe and mankind but > >> Genesis 2 says it was "Yahweh". > >> > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > Do you have the verses? El may be one of the many names of God. > > Jason > > Jason, can you tell me why your god goes under different names. For > instance, god and Lord. I once saw a list of the different names used for God. You would have to know the original languages to understand it. For example, these are some of the names: Jehovah-jireh--Gen 22:14 Jehovah-nissi--Ex 17:15 Jehoval-shalom--Judges 6:24 Each of those words--jireh, nissi and shalom have a meaning such as the name of an alter, location (eg name of a mountain) or saying in English "Jehovah Is With Us" instead of just saying Jehovah or "Jehovah is a God of Peace" instead of just saying Jehovah. I looked up the word Jireh and it states: "Jehovah will see to it". It also states: a symbolic name for Mt. Moriah. Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:07:52 -0700, Jason wrote: >> > You want to try again. I'll find 10 or 20 more questions for you.- Skjul = >> tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> Yes, we all know that you are not capable of being embarrassed by your >> dishonesty. It is odd that you are proud of it though. > > > Questions for Evolutionists > > BlueBar > > > 1. Where did the space for the universe come from? This is on a list of questions for "evolutionists"? Any hope I may have had of you ever doing something so amazingly simple as just telling the truth has gone entirely out the window. You are a liar, plain and simple, and you make no apologies for it; as long as it is a lie for your religion, it is acceptable to you. I'm sure glad I'm not a Christian; I'd have to throw out all my morals. -- One naive Christian does not make all Christians fools, Scot. - Charlie J. Ray Nor does one man like Adolph make all NAZIs bad people. - Dan Ceppa Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 In article <UbZbi.6115$K8.1376@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1306070010510001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1181708413.361881.208590@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 13, 12:06 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <jbdu63dbf8uae5r7fv9mee2g40sb6q0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > >> > > Remember, they worship the same God you do. > >> > > >> > They worship a God named Allah. There were some people in the Bible > >> > that > >> > worshipped a false God named Baal. Judges 2:13. I consider Allah to be > >> > a > >> > false God. I already know people will diagree with me. > >> > >> Indeed. And what did the Hebrews do to people who worshipped that > >> false god? > >> > >> "While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled > >> themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women > >> invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the > >> Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. > >> Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing > >> the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the > >> following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute > >> them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn > >> away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to > >> execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then > >> one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, > >> right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were > >> weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of > >> Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and > >> left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into > >> his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body > >> and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites > >> was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 > >> NLT)" > >> > >> The Moslems also think that Jehovah is a false god and they believe > >> that Allah wants them to kill the followers of the false god. > >> > >> Now do you understand. It is RELIGION that is the problem. It > >> doesn't matter WHICH one. > >> > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > The Muslims want to take over the world. They will do it by force. If > > people don't become Muslims, they will kill them. The president of Iran > > plans to start the next world war and he may succeed. Read the book, "The > > Last Jihad". I copied this quotation from a book entitled, "Jerusalem > > Countdown" > > > > A Muslim leader named Fayid Azzam made this statement in Brooklyn in 1989: > > > > "Blood must flow. There must be widows, orphans...hands and limbs must be > > severed and limbs and blood must be spread everwhere in order that Allah's > > religion can stand on it's feet." > > > > http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25136 > > The Christians will do the same. Read the Old Testament for a change and > tell me how great your god is. One of the main reasons I left Christianity > was that no supernatural god could be as stupid and have all of the human > characteristics as the god of the Hebrew OT. I read those same scriptures and learned that in some cases wars are necessary. Examine the history of America. We dropped two Nuclear bombs on Japan. America killed lots of people on that day. Are you still an American? We would all now be speaking German if Hitler had not been defeated in a world war. If we are not willing to fight the Muslims, in less than 50 years--our offspring will either have to bow down to Mecca each day or they will have their heads chopped off. The president of Iran recently made this statement: "Israel must be wiped off the map of the world." Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 In article <1181767025.697731.49670@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bramble <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 jun, 20:49, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1181731971.306554.97...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 13, 3:45 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:Jason-1206072140050001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > There is a world of difference between conducting scientific experiments > > > > > in labs compared to creating a star. > > > > > > > The scientists believe that it happened naturally. It's very likely that > > > > > it involved elements (or a combination of elements) and amino acids. > > > > > > > If it happened once--naturally--scientists should be able to cause it > > > > > happen again. > > > > > > So you think scientist should be able to create stars in the laboratory? > > > > And their failure to do so implies that there is a 'god' who created them > > > > instead? > > > > > Of course if his god created mankind then his god should be able to do > > > it again. Don't hold your breath wanting for another species of man > > > to appear. > > > > > Martin > > > > Martin, > > As of now, many of the aspects of abiogenesis are based on speculation > > instead of evidence. Experiments like the one mentioned above would > > produce evidence. > > jason > > > This experiments would produce evidence, eventually. But not at the > present state of our knowledge. This experiement is very difficult to > carry out, because if there is any lumps of molecules that are in the > path of becoming some sort of living microorganism, they cannot even > spot them. This sort of proto-organism perhaps is very slow to > develop, or otherwise, very difficult to identify. It is like looking > for a needle in a barn full of straw. > > Anyway, abiogensis is nothing but a theory. A reasonable one, by the > way. But not all theories can be proved in a laboratory. Many of the > scientific assertions can be falsifiable, but not all. Anyway, > scientific theories can be pleasant to the mind, but not all of them > can be proved right. Some can be wrong. Humans are not gods, > remember? We are limited. > Bramble Bramble, Without the experiments, abiogenesis will never be nothing more than speculations about how it might have happened. Jason Quote
Guest Fred Stone Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-1306071402430001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: > In article <Xns994E98D7FE099freddybear@66.150.105.47>, Fred Stone > <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> news:Jason-1306071239150001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net: >> <...> >> > >> > Do you think that when men fly jets into buildings and kill 3000 >> > people--that it is or is not pleasing to God? In that case, it's >> > easy to figure out how God feels about it. There is a commandment >> > that states: Thou shall not Murder. >> > >> >> I think that they believed that their God was pleased with them. They >> read the commandment from God that says to kill the unbelievers >> wherever you find them. > > That is true. They were following the teachings of a false God. > Far as I can tell, Jason, so are you. -- Fred Stone aa# 1369 "When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that seemed like posturing." -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 In article <u246k4-m3f.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:17:37 -0700, Jason wrote: > > >> Gosh Jason, what do you see when you look at the sick and dying? Evidence of > >> god's love? There are natural explanations for the stars in the sky. With > >> the vast universe we have aren't you a little surprised that the only > >> mention of anything being created outside of out tiny solar system is the > >> short sentence, 'and he created the stars'? > > > > The Bible is not a cosmology text book. > > You read what he wrote, but you completely failed to understand it. You > cherry picked two words and responded to those, ignoring the rest and the > whole point to his statements. > > One is forced to wonder if you're not in full-out retreat mode now, since > you seem to be running from anything and everything which might actually > make you have to think. Not really--I usually only comment on things that stand out in a post. I read all of the words in most posts unless people use derogatory language. I stop reading at that point and click on the next post. Quote
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