Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <XCici.1423$ma.664@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1406071543010001@66-52-22-102.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <BIhci.6$C31.1@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-1406071417560001@66-52-22-66.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <f4s36c$se9$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >> > In article <f4rce1$54j$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >> >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >> >>> Cheryl Prewitt told me that she was healed by God. She stated that > >> >> >>> she saw > >> >> >>> her leg bone grow two inches. I believed her testimony. She has > >> >> >>> gave > >> >> >>> her > >> >> >>> testimony at many different churches. Her name is mentioned on > >> >> >>> over > >> >> >>> 700 > >> >> >>> websites. > >> >> >> "UFO" is mentioned on 37,800,000 websites. Are they real? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The words "Jason" "owes" and "money" match to 467,000 websites. > >> >> >> Does > >> >> >> that mean you're a deadbeat? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The phrase "pigs fly" matches to 432,000 and "flying pigs" match to > >> >> >> 204,000 sites. Are pigs now flying? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason is smart" matched to 3,560 sites. Well, that proves the > >> >> >> number > >> >> >> of > >> >> >> sites google matches is worthless for proving something. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Oh, wait, "Jason is an idiot" matched 6,490 sites. Maybe there > >> >> >> really > >> >> >> IS > >> >> >> something to this whole "mentioned on over XXXXX sites" thing. > >> >> > > >> >> > Google your full name and determine if it is mentioned on over 700 > >> >> > websites. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> Personalized Results 1 - 100 of about 577,000 English pages for > >> >> "Michael > >> >> Anderson". > >> >> > >> >> Your point is, again? > >> > > >> > Your first name and last name are common names. > >> > > >> > One more try--I found this name in the phone book-try it: > >> > John Pietrzak > >> > >> You can't just count web sites, you have to read them. I think I > >> established > >> that point very clearly in my prior post. > > > > What was the result related to John Pietrzak? > > I don't have a clue and it has no relevance to any discussion here. I > answered that for you, you little coward but you have conveniently ignored > it Here is the post again and it is highly relevant since you have used the > statement Darwin made: > > Jason, you need to read the sites, not just count them. For example if you > had done a little research you would have found this blurb from a Christian > apologetic web site: > > "In the closing paragraph of certain editions of The Origin of Species, > there appears a reference by Charles Darwin to a Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <5ddu44F33sbabU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote > > snip > > > > I see it like this--and it's only my opinion--Weather is controlled by > > natural weather patterns unless God intervenes such as by causing it to > > rain to answer the prayers of Christian farmers. If God had not > > intervened--the natural weather patterns would have determined the > > weather. > > So, your god had no problem with Hurricane Katrina? Natural disasters happen--you could make a list of thousands of natural disasters. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <umc373lsri877gg44m59jqfkek8p2nj2an@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:32:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-1406070132130001@66-52-22-114.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article > ><DipthotDipthot-CCA16E.18144813062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > >655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > ... > > >> Maybe you'd learn that there is none, and that you were wrong all along. > >> > >> Don't be afraid that learning such a thing could shake your faith in > >> your god. I know that wouldn't happen. > > > >I asked at least two people a question like this: > > > >If I produced physical evidence that proved that Cheryl's leg bone grew > >two inches, would you agree that God healed her? > > > >Both posters told be that even if I proved that Cheryl's leg bone grew two > >inches, that it would NOT mean that God healed her. > > Because it doesn't. It does not matter what you believe. Belief is not > evidence. All you are doing is making an arrogant assertion and then > whining because you are being asked to provide some evidence that God > had anything to do with it, but you know you cannot. Stop whining. Stop > lying. Belief is not evidence. In relation to abiogenesis, lots of people have a belief that it happened that way. Belief is not evidence. > > >All of the various questions related to the THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY > >OF WILLIAM A. KENT AND CHERYL PREWITT reminded me of a story in the Bible. > >See Luke 16:19-31. The rich man was in the place of torment and requested > >permission to return to the earth so that he could warn his brothers about > >the place of torment. Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the > >prophets; let them hear them [Moses and the prophets]. The rich man said > >to Abraham: "No, father Abraham, but if one went from the dead, they will > >repent." And Abraham said to the rich man: "IF THEY HEAR NOT MOSES AND > >THE PROPHETS, NEITHER WILL THEY BE PERSUADED, THOUGH ONE ROSE FROM THE > >DEAD. > > > >I hope that you now get the point. If you don't believe the words of Moses > >and the Prophets, neither will you listen to William A. Kent, Cheryl > >Prewitt or myself. > > You completely missed the point of the Rich Man and Lazarus. I Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <l0c373tfbfr5u281gigmjrqo37di297epn@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:38:39 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-1406070038390001@66-52-22-114.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <r341739dii650oscan5npn42p14d433ijk@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:06:57 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-1206072106570001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <jbdu63dbf8uae5r7fv9mee2g40sb6q0ks1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:09:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> <Jason-1206071509130001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >In article <31d3k4-7or.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> >> ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> [snips] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous > >> >infidel you > >> >> >> >> are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing Allah with > >> >> >> >> their actions. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the > >> >actions > >> >> >> > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is invalidated > >> >> >> simply by where they live . > >> >> > > >> >> >I mentioned America since those 3000 people were killed in America. > >> >> >Millions of people in other countries also realize that the actions of > >> >> >those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > >> >> > >> >> So you say. Apparently you never read the Old Testament. Jehovah was a > >> >> pretty bloodthirsty tyrant. He might love the murders of 9/11 and the > >> >> wars that happened afterward. > >> >> > >> >> >What is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on 9/11? > >> >> > >> >> They are evil. But I don't have to defend the evil acts that people do > >> >> in the name of God. > >> >> > >> >> Remember, they worship the same God you do. > >> > > >> >They worship a God named Allah. There were some people in the Bible that > >> >worshipped a false God named Baal. Judges 2:13. I consider Allah to be a > >> >false God. I already know people will diagree with me. > >> >jason > >> > > >> Your ignorance of comparative religion is noted. > >> > >> Jews, Christians, Moslems, and Bahai all worship the same god. The word > >> for God in Arabic is Allah. It is exactly the same name that Christian > >> Arabs use when they pray to God. > >> > >> You are remarkably proud of your ignorance. Why do you think your god > >> will be proud of you or even tolerate you? > > > >There are vast differences between the Christian religion and the Moslem > >religion. One example: I know for a fact that the Christian Bible does not > >mention anything about Christians getting a bunch of virgins in heaven. > > > That has absolutely nothing to do with the _fact_ that Jews, Christian, > Moslems and Bahai all agree that they worship the same God, the God of > Abraham. I don't know what god you worship. If you worship the God of > Abraham, you worship the same God that Moslems worship. > > Deal with reality sometime. I'm sick of the lies that you tell because > you indulge in so much wishful thinking and intentional ignorance. If you choose to believe it--that is up to you. It's my opinion that Baal and Allah are false Gods. I have not conducted any research related to Bahai. This sentence is from the Quran: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and sieze them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war)." (Surah 9:5) From Surah 5:33 "....cutting off of hands and feet..." Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <1181866254.662302.244500@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 14, 3:48 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1181790697.078786.266...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 14, 7:36 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <i9Zbi.6114$K8.3...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:Jason-1206072106570001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > In article <jbdu63dbf8uae5r7fv9mee2g40sb6q0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:09:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > >> <Jason-1206071509130...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >> >In article <31d3k4-7or....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > > > > >> ><kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> [snips] > > > > > > > >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:03:44 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> >> It's easy to find people who will tell us what a blasphemous > > > > > > infidel you > > > > > >> >> >> are for saying that the 9/11 Jihadists were not pleasing > > Allah with > > > > > >> >> >> their actions. > > > > > > > >> >> > You already know that millions of people in America agree that the > > > > > > actions > > > > > >> >> > of those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > > > > > > > >> >> "in America"? Oh, wonderful. Now someone's religion is invalidated > > > > > >> >> simply by where they live . > > > > > > > >> >I mentioned America since those 3000 people were killed in America. > > > > > >> >Millions of people in other countries also realize that the actions of > > > > > >> >those men were not pleasing to Jehovah. > > > > > > > >> So you say. Apparently you never read the Old Testament. Jehovah was a > > > > > >> pretty bloodthirsty tyrant. He might love the murders of 9/11 and the > > > > > >> wars that happened afterward. > > > > > > > >> >What is your opinion about those men that killed 3000 people on 9/11? > > > > > > > >> They are evil. But I don't have to defend the evil acts that people do > > > > > >> in the name of God. > > > > > > > >> Remember, they worship the same God you do. > > > > > > > > They worship a God named Allah. There were some people in the Bible that > > > > > > worshipped a false God named Baal. Judges 2:13. I consider Allah to be a > > > > > > false God. I already know people will diagree with me. > > > > > > jason > > > > > > > How can you? They are the same god. Ironic isn't it. > > > > > > If you choose to believe that Jehovah and Allah are the same God--that is > > > > up to you. I consider Baal and Allah to be false Gods. > > > > > "Baal" is a Hebrew word meaning "Lord" and "Allah" originated from the > > > Hebrew word "Eloah" which you said was a name of your god. > > > I don't recall stating that. I may have stated that it may have been a > > name for God. I just checked my Concordance and the word "Eloah" is NOT > > mentioned in the Bible. Baal is mentioned in the Bible--Baal was a false > > God. If I stated in a post that Eloah was a name for Jehovah--I was wrong. > > I have a theory: perhaps "Jason" is more than one person and they are > being paid to post here. That would explain how they have been going > for a year and a half without saying anything new and while they > continuously contradict themselves and don't remember what they've > said, > > Either that or Jason is completely senile. > > In any case, "Jason" needs to understand that the Old Testament was > NOT written in English: it was written in Hebrew and that it is > mindboggingly stupid of his to say "such and such a word is not in the > Bible" when the fact is that Elohim, Eloah, Yahweh were all translated > as "God" whether they refered to the same god or not. > > Once again, "Jason" demonstrates complete ignorance in a field which > he professes to know something about. > > Martin Martin, My Bible was written in English. My concordance is written in English. I don't own any Bibles that were written in other languages. jason Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 3 02 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1181819353.150364.70...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, bramble > > > > > > <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 14 jun, 01:14, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1181767025.697731.49...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bramble > > > > <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 13 jun, 20:49, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > In article <1181731971.306554.97...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Ma= > > rtin > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 13, 3:45 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > > > > >news:Jason-1206072140050001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > There is a world of difference between conducting scientific > > > experiments > > > > > > > > in labs compared to creating a star. > > > > > > > > > The scientists believe that it happened naturally. It's very > > > likely that > > > > > > > > it involved elements (or a combination of elements) and amino a= > > cids. > > > > > > > > > If it happened once--naturally--scientists should be able to ca= > > use it > > > > > > > > happen again. > > > > > > > > So you think scientist should be able to create stars in the labo= > > ratory? > > > > > > > And their failure to do so implies that there is a 'god' who > > > created them > > > > > > > instead? > > > > > > > Of course if his god created mankind then his god should be able to= > > do > > > > > > it again. Don't hold your breath wanting for another species of man > > > > > > to appear. > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > Martin, > > > > > As of now, many of the aspects of abiogenesis are based on speculation > > > > > instead of evidence. Experiments like the one mentioned above would > > > > > produce evidence. > > > > > jason > > > > > This experiments would produce evidence, eventually. But not at the > > > > present state of our knowledge. This experiement is very difficult to > > > > carry out, because if there is any lumps of molecules that are in the > > > > path of becoming some sort of living microorganism, they cannot even > > > > spot them. This sort of proto-organism perhaps is very slow to > > > > develop, or otherwise, very difficult to identify. It is like looking > > > > for a needle in a barn full of straw. > > > > > Anyway, abiogensis is nothing but a theory. A reasonable one, by the > > > > way. But not all theories can be proved in a laboratory. Many of the > > > > scientific assertions can be falsifiable, but not all. Anyway, > > > > scientific theories can be pleasant to the mind, but not all of them > > > > can be proved right. Some can be wrong. Humans are not gods, > > > > remember? We are limited. > > > > Bramble > > > > Bramble, > > > Without the experiments, abiogenesis will never be nothing more than > > > speculations about how it might have happened. > > > Jason > > > Yes and not. Abiog=E9nesis is an expeculation, or a theory, with and > > without any experiments. A theory is nothing more than an > > expeculation accepted by a majority of scientists. It is nothing > > more. It is valid in the intelligence that is nothing more than > > that. An idea that we accept as "probably true", or an idea that > > "looks pleasant or reasonable". Any real scientists knows that we > > cannot be sure 100% of any theory. We know that anytime in the > > future, this or that theory would be discarded. We cannot believe in > > theories as if they were written in a holy book by someone inspired by > > god. This is only the case of religious people. They think their > > holy books are like a chest full of knowledge, with not any errors in > > them. Other modern religious people, think that in the holy books are > > mixed some human ideas, quite wrong, with some good ones, inspired by > > god. This religious people are more sensible. They can evolve with > > the times, and can correct their ideas as most people are doing. > > Bramble > > Bramble, > You explained your point of view very well. Please tell me whether you > think the other members of this newsgroup view abiogenesis as a theory > that will be discarded when a better theory is developed?. That's science, Jason. Tell me, Jason, do you consider "creation science" to be a theory to be discarded when a better theory has been developed? Because you're over a century behind the times. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 3 18 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <%_aci.3526$s8.1...@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >news:1181791042.696607.245920@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > > > On Jun 14, 8:37 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > Even if Jesus himself > > >> > saiys not any word about this in the NT. > > > >> Yes, he does. He forgave a prostitute for her sins. He could have had her > > >> stoned to death--he did not do it. > > > > And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the Christian concept of a loving > > > god! > > > > Martin > > > Actually Jason the story about the prostitute was added to the bible. Jesus > > never had such an encounter. > > It was absent from the Alexandrian text but was in other > manuscripts--including in the writings of Augustine. Doesn't matter when it was written: stories about Jesus were just made up. > I copied the above information from a footnote in my study Bible--the > editor was W.A. Criswell, Ph.D. Ph.D. in... what? Christian studies? A Ph.D. in Christian studies would be useful if you needed toilet paper, I suppose. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 3 20 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4rbvv$46...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <f4pa1r$vp...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >>> In article <opc3k4-7or....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > >>> <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>>> [snips] > > > >>>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > >>>>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > > >>>>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > > >>>> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even > this > > >>>> much yet - simply isn't known yet. > > > >>>> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super > being who, > > >>>> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match this > > >>>> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > > >>>> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > > > >>>> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > >>> Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > > >>> healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? > > > >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your > > >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > > > > The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence that > > > there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > > > everyone that needed to be healed. > > > Let's try to answer the question asked this time: > > > "Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god?" > > no And why not? If one person is cured and that is evidence for God then surely whenever someone else ISN'T cured it is evidence that God doesn't exist. The evidence for God's non-existance is overwhelming. Wake up! Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 3 29 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4rd13$5b...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <f4otjc$j2...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >>> I was referring to these two steps: > > > >>> STEP 1 Single cell (example: bacteria) > > >>> STEP 2 Single animal cell (with DNA nucleus capable of sexual > reproduction) > > >> And leaving out the millions of steps that came before and between. > > > >>> Testimony is considered as evidence in court. Someone pointed out that > > >>> physical evidence (eg gun, bloody knife) is more important than testimony. > > >>> I agreed with that person that made that statement. > > > >>> Let's say that the neighbors in an apartment building hear a married > > >>> couple having an argument. They hear the husband say, "I'm going to kill > > >>> you". The argument ends and the police are not called. The following day, > > >>> the wife was shot as she was walking home from work. The husband took a > > >>> shower after he shot his wife and washed his hands with bleach to remove > > >>> any evidence. There were no witnesses present when the husband shot his > > >>> wife. The police are not able to find a gun when they search the apartment > > >>> and all surrounding areas. They arrest the husband and charge him with the > > >>> murder. All of the neighbors provide testimony at the murder trial. > > > >>> The jury members convict the husband of first degree murder--based upon > > >>> the testimonies of the people that heard the argument and heard him say, > > >>> "I'm going to kill you." > > >> No, they wouldn't. You'd never even find a DA that would even think > > >> about arresting the guy to begin with, much less prosecuting him, based > > >> on simply an "I'm going to kill you." Was there even a body? > > > >>> Do you now understand that TESTIMONY is evidence--even if there is no > > >>> physical evidence? > > >> Testimony is simply evidence that the person says he > > >> saw/heard/tasted/smelled/felt something but NOT evidence that the > > >> something actually exists.. But if the neighbor claimed "Yeah, I saw him > > >> shoot her and bury her body right here" and yet there was no body found > > >> (or better yet, the wife is actually standing there, alive and well) the > > >> testimony would likely be ignored. > > > > Let's try again: > > > A woman's husband is observed by 8 witnesses going inside their apartment > > > with a gun in his hand and shouting, "I am going to kill that woman." The > > > witnesses hear a gunshot and see the man running from the building. The > > > husband had watched over a hundred episodes of CSI and followed his plan: > > > He was able to get rid of all physical evidence--including the gun. The > > > only evidence at the murder trial is the testimony of the witnesses. The > > > body of the woman is found. > > > > If you was on the jury, would you find him guilty? I would > > > Let's try again: > > > Several people say they overheard a man say "I'm going to kill my wife." > > No shot is heard, no gun is found, no bullet, no blood, no body, no wife > > has ever been seen (dead OR alive,) there's no woman's clothes in the > > apartment, there's a single twin bed, the guy is a flaming gay man. > > > Would you convict him of murder. Yes, YOU would but any sane person > > wouldn't. > > You failed to answer this question in relation to my scenario: > If you was on the jury of the man that 8 witnesses claimed to have heard > the husband state: "I am going to kill that woman", would you find him > guilty him guilty? > > In relation to your scenario, I would find him not guilty since a dead > body was not found. You missed the point: a dead body IS physical evidence. Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <e4c37352rsu9akoeoi2jld8sdh7bpn28n3@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:35:14 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-1406070135150001@66-52-22-114.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <0c41731qbu3l8n3j7rhumqe3vmdvf5rvs7@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:22:57 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-1306070022570001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <1181708123.776350.23860@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Jun 13, 11:59 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > In article <1181695356.967104.238...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, > >Martin > >> > >> ... > >> > >> >> > > By the way, Genesis 1 says "El" created the universe and mankind but > >> >> > > Genesis 2 says it was "Yahweh". > >> >> > >> >> > Do you have the verses? El may be one of the many names of God. > >> >> > >> >> In fact, Genesis 1 talks about the Elohim, which means "gods", in > >> >> plural. (e.g. Genesis 6:2, "... the sons of Elohim saw the daughters > >> >> of men that they were fair; and they took them for wives... ,") > >> >> > >> >> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim > >> >> > >> >> Martin > >> > > >> >This is in reference to the intermarriage among the Cainites and Sethites. > >> >The Cainites were sinful, evil people and the Sethites were devoted and > >> >consecrated to God. God became very upset with the Sethites for taking > >> >Cainite women as their wives since God wanted them to only marry Sethite > >> >women. > >> > > >> >I copied most of the above info. from a footnote in my study Bible. > >> >Jason > >> > > >> The authors of your study bible note were making it up. They have no > >> evidence at all that their claim is correct. > > > >Should I believe you or the words of the W.A. Chriswell, Ph.D--the editor > >of my study Bible or yourself--take a guess on my choice. > > > I know that you would be mistaken to believe those who make things up > like this, but I also know that you have a demonstrated willingness to > be led astray by those who tell you what you want to hear. Chriswell > does not have _any_ evidence that "this is in reference to the > intermarriage among the Cainites and Sethites." > > Deal with facts. I have no reason to doubt Dr. Chriswell. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 2 32 , Jim07D7 <Jim0...@nospam.net> wrote: > J...@nospam.com (Jason) said: > > >Bramble, > >You explained your point of view very well. Please tell me whether you > >think the other members of this newsgroup view abiogenesis as a theory > >that will be discarded when a better theory is developed? > > If no minds are changed in this discussion, at least they can be > informed of what science does and doesn't do. > > As a chemist, I believe the idea that biological life came about by > chemical reactions involving only energy and non-living matter > interacting in accordance with their physical properties (what you > call abiogenesis) is properly classified as a hypothesis, or a set of > hypotheses. There are several different hypothetical models for how > this might have happened, but none of them has been used in a > laboratory experiment to yield living organisms. If abiogenesis > happened on earth, it should not be particularly difficult to repeat > in a lab setting, once the correct conditions are set up. > > One reason this field is moving slowly is that there are no obvious > commercial applications that cannot be satisfied by starting with > biological materials. > > Note: proving abiogenesis can happen will not prove it did happen. > And even proving it did happen will not prove it was unguided or > undesigned. The fact that no gods exist leaves us with little reason to believe the universe was designed. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 3 35 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4re3n$6n...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > I heard the story on a Christian radio show. I found this story on the web: > > > > Vietnam Police Kill Christian Prisoners And Relatives, Investigators Say > > > Added: May 29th, 2007 2:47 AM > > > > By Stefan J. Bos, Chief International Correspondent BosNewsLife with > > > reporting from Vietnam > > > > HANOI, VIETNAM (BosNewsLife) -- Vietnamese security forces have tortured > > > and killed at least two Christian Degar Montagnards in Vietnam's Central > > > Highlands in recent months and allegedly murdered relatives of religious > > > prisoners, representatives said Monday, May 28. > > > Amazing that this story never appeared on any reputable news site and > > even searching for the words "Christian Degar Montagnards vietnam killed > > tortured" in google (leaving out the quotes so it would search for the > > words individually) only finds 460 pages (by contrast the words > > "astronaut kidnapped" found 199,000 hits.) > > > Oh, wait, it's that conspiracy at work again, trying to cover up this event. > > Stories like this are covered by Christian News organizations that are > broadcast on Christian radio shows. ie Christian Lies organizations that broadcast Christian radio propaganda. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 3 36 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4rce1$54...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > Cheryl Prewitt told me that she was healed by God. She stated that she saw > > > her leg bone grow two inches. I believed her testimony. She has gave her > > > testimony at many different churches. Her name is mentioned on over 700 > > > websites. > > > "UFO" is mentioned on 37,800,000 websites. Are they real? > > > The words "Jason" "owes" and "money" match to 467,000 websites. Does > > that mean you're a deadbeat? > > > The phrase "pigs fly" matches to 432,000 and "flying pigs" match to > > 204,000 sites. Are pigs now flying? > > > "Jason is smart" matched to 3,560 sites. Well, that proves the number of > > sites google matches is worthless for proving something. > > > Oh, wait, "Jason is an idiot" matched 6,490 sites. Maybe there really IS > > something to this whole "mentioned on over XXXXX sites" thing. > > Google your full name and determine if it is mentioned on over 700 websites. Tell you what, Jason, you give us your full name and we will google it to find out if you actually exist or if you are just a character created to annoy us. Incidentally, I just googled my name and got 1,140,000 hits. Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <wgici.1412$ma.496@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1406071218540001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <%_aci.3526$s8.1518@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:1181791042.696607.245920@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > >> > On Jun 14, 8:37 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > Even if Jesus himself > >> >> > saiys not any word about this in the NT. > >> >> > >> >> Yes, he does. He forgave a prostitute for her sins. He could have had > >> >> her > >> >> stoned to death--he did not do it. > >> > > >> > And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the Christian concept of a loving > >> > god! > >> > > >> > Martin > >> > >> Actually Jason the story about the prostitute was added to the bible. > >> Jesus > >> never had such an encounter. > > > > It was absent from the Alexandrian text but was in other > > manuscripts--including in the writings of Augustine. > > > > I copied the above information from a footnote in my study Bible--the > > editor was W.A. Criswell, Ph.D. > > This story is not part of the original story told by John. You are correct > that it is found in some manuscripts but not necessarily in John. I think > the fact that it isn't in the best texts we have and that when it is found > it is found in various places makes it pretty certain that the story was a > later inclusion by the followers of Jesus. Which brings us to the writings > of Augustine. While we can get valuable information from the writings of the > early church fathers as to the composition of the earliest bible, it must > also be remembered that the early church fathers wrote many of the things in > the bible to support their point of view. There are footnotes in study Bibles about those sorts of cases. Several months ago, National Geographic published "The Book of Judas". It may have been portions of the book of Judas. I heard a television preacher say that he found out that the Book of Judas was actually written several hundred years after Judas died. Have you read anything about the Book of Judas? I have not read it. Jason Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 3 40 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <5dd120F32b33...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote i > > > snip > > > > Cheryl Prewitt told me that she was healed by God. > > > So? You believe every thing you're told? > > In relation to some people, including Chery Prewitt, I do believe what > they say. I don't believe everything that many people say---such as Bill > Clinton. Did you believe him when he stated, "I did not have sex with that > woman"? And just as with Bill Clinton, we have evidence that she is lying: absolutely no medical journal has published any paper on this so- called "miracle". You are extremely naive to believe a proven liar. Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <f8c3731iiqusaoisg7njqpar12qnbt5q0m@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:01:09 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-1406070201090001@66-52-22-114.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <8f4173tmksbno3p7t9nf3h9hriue2vrlkl@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > ... > > >> So you claim, but I've learned that your claims are not reliable. I > >> would be a total fool to accept something that you tell me without any > >> evidence or reference. > > > >I heard the story on a Christian radio show. I found this story on the web: > > > >Vietnam Police Kill Christian Prisoners And Relatives, Investigators Say > >Added: May 29th, 2007 2:47 AM > > > >By Stefan J. Bos, Chief International Correspondent BosNewsLife with > >reporting from Vietnam > > > >HANOI, VIETNAM (BosNewsLife) -- Vietnamese security forces have tortured > >and killed at least two Christian Degar Montagnards in Vietnam's Central > >Highlands in recent months and allegedly murdered relatives of religious > >prisoners, representatives said Monday, May 28. > > > >The US-based advocacy group Montagnard Foundation Incorporated (MFI), > >which has contacts in the region, told BosNewsLife that one of the > >Christian Degar Montagnard prisoners, 43-year-old Rahlan Lua from the > >village of Bon Toat in Gialai province, died last month, April 10. He died > >"from the effects of torture and maltreatment he received in prison," MFI > >stressed. > > Please notice that this is not a news report but the hearsay of a story > told by one group with a political agenda to someone else with a > political agenda. Please also notice that these people were not only > Christian, but also anti-government activists and members of minorities. > I have no idea if they were killed by government agents, but, once > again, you are too self-centered to recognize that the Christianity of > these activists is not the problem. > > ... Are you saying that you have evidence that the story is false? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In article <pge373dv1bluspapcvo0mnd7n7733d0f5n@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 <Jim07D7@nospam.net> wrote: > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) said: > > >In article <4671A035.68DD@armory.com>, "R. Steve Walz" > ><rstevew@armory.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > > >> > In article <5dd120F32b338U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >> > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote i > >> > > > >> > > snip > >> > > > > >> > > > Cheryl Prewitt told me that she was healed by God. > >> > > > >> > > So? You believe every thing you're told? > >> > > >> > In relation to some people, including Chery Prewitt, I do believe what > >> > they say. I don't believe everything that many people say---such as Bill > >> > Clinton. Did you believe him when he stated, "I did not have sex with that > >> > woman"? > >> -------------------- > >> Well, he didn't! Even Monica admits that! > >> Steve > > > >If your wife caught you doing the same thing that Monica was doing to > >Clinton, would she call it sex? > > By that standard, the relevant judge of what Bill did is Hillary. He lied to her also. He did not admit the truth until Monica produced the spotted dress. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 5 17 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4s36c$se...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <f4rce1$54...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >>> Cheryl Prewitt told me that she was healed by God. She stated that she saw > > >>> her leg bone grow two inches. I believed her testimony. She has gave her > > >>> testimony at many different churches. Her name is mentioned on over 700 > > >>> websites. > > >> "UFO" is mentioned on 37,800,000 websites. Are they real? > > > >> The words "Jason" "owes" and "money" match to 467,000 websites. Does > > >> that mean you're a deadbeat? > > > >> The phrase "pigs fly" matches to 432,000 and "flying pigs" match to > > >> 204,000 sites. Are pigs now flying? > > > >> "Jason is smart" matched to 3,560 sites. Well, that proves the number of > > >> sites google matches is worthless for proving something. > > > >> Oh, wait, "Jason is an idiot" matched 6,490 sites. Maybe there really IS > > >> something to this whole "mentioned on over XXXXX sites" thing. > > > > Google your full name and determine if it is mentioned on over 700 websites. > > > Personalized Results 1 - 100 of about 577,000 English pages for "Michael > > Anderson". > > > Your point is, again? > > Your first name and last name are common names. Don't you think that a Miss Universe winner, not to mention one who claims to have received a miracle, would have deserved more than 700 sites? Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 5 26 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4s386$se...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <f4rbvv$46...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >>> In article <f4pa1r$vp...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > >>> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >>>> Jason wrote: > > >>>>> In article <opc3k4-7or....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > >>>>> <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>> [snips] > > > >>>>>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > >>>>>>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which > indicated that > > >>>>>>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > > >>>>>> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even > > > this > > >>>>>> much yet - simply isn't known yet. > > > >>>>>> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super > > > being who, > > >>>>>> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to > match this > > >>>>>> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > > >>>>>> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > > > >>>>>> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > >>>>> Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > > >>>>> healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > >>>> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? > > > >>>> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your > > >>>> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > > >>> The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence that > > >>> there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > > >>> everyone that needed to be healed. > > >> Let's try to answer the question asked this time: > > > >> "Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god?" > > > > no > > > Then by what logic are those who ARE healed "evidence for god?" > > It's a case by case basis. In the case of Cheryl Prewitt and William Kent, > it is my opinion that it is evidence of God. And we're saying that your ignorant opinions are worth f ck all. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 4 42 , "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > news:Jason-1406071420340001@66-52-22-66.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > > In article <5ddithF340ot...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >>news:Jason-1406071240170001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <5dd120F32b33...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >> > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > > >> >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote i > > >> >> snip > > >> >> > Cheryl Prewitt told me that she was healed by God. > > >> >> So? You believe every thing you're told? > > >> > In relation to some people, including Chery Prewitt, I do believe what > >> > they say. > > >> Why? Because they're christians? > > > In this case, it played a role. I don't trust all people that are > > Christians such as Jimmy Swaggart. I trust the members of my family and > > one of them is a Moslem--my niece married a man that is a Moslem and she > > decided to become a Moslem. > > How do you know which Christians to trust and which ones not to? I can answer that question for Jason: If a Christian is smiling then he is not lying. If a Christain is eating then he is not lying. But if a Christian is actually saying something then he is lying. Martin Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <cis373lg4s0abmv6siu17mkkj6vl21sds1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:37:11 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-1406071937110001@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>> In article <l0c373tfbfr5u281gigmjrqo37di297epn@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>> <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> ... >>>> That has absolutely nothing to do with the _fact_ that Jews, Christian, >>>> Moslems and Bahai all agree that they worship the same God, the God of >>>> Abraham. I don't know what god you worship. If you worship the God of >>>> Abraham, you worship the same God that Moslems worship. >>>> >>>> Deal with reality sometime. I'm sick of the lies that you tell because >>>> you indulge in so much wishful thinking and intentional ignorance. >>> If you choose to believe it--that is up to you. It's my opinion that Baal >>> and Allah are false Gods. >> Your opinion is wrong. I don't care how many opinions you have that are >> derived from your intentional ignorance. Because you choose to be >> ignorant and dishonest, you deserve to be chastised. >> >> Once again, the fact is that Allah is the Arabic word for God. You >> basically said in your proud ignorance, that Christian Arabs worship >> false gods because they call God Allah. You are a fool and a bigot. >> >>> I have not conducted any research related to >>> Bahai. This sentence is from the Quran: >>> >>> "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and sieze them, >>> beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war)." >>> (Surah 9:5) >>> >> >From Surah 5:33 >>> "....cutting off of hands and feet..." >>> >> The doctrines of Islam may be considered heretical by Christians, but >> they are not Pagan. Learn the difference and stop worshipping your own >> ignorance. > > The president of Iran made this statement: > "Israel must be wiped off from the map of the world." > > That's not paganism, it's bigotry pure and simple. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 6 15 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > Bramble, > > > You explained your point of view very well. Please tell me whether you > > > think the other members of this newsgroup view abiogenesis as a theory > > > that will be discarded when a better theory is developed? > > > I dont know. Most of the people interested in science know that > > theories can be discarded if there are reasons to do it. Many science > > theories are defended > > with passion, in a similar way religious people defend their dogmas. > > But if the persona has a basic knowledge of how science works, then he > > knows that any theory is a temporary way to explain something. We > > like to have answers, theories that explain phenomena. Sometimes, we > > have not the slightess idea about a subject, but sometimes it seems > > that we have attractive ideas. We like them and put passion to defend > > them. We are humans, remember? We like to have answers. > > > What you say about fundamentalist churches, I don't like it a little > > bit. You are working a lot to create the party of god. You want to > > reconquer the state, and to found a fundamentalist dictatorship. And > > these are very bad news for me. > > Hitler started with much less that you, and look at the misery and > > death he begot. You are creating the very foundations for the next > > civil war in the US. > > Bramble > > Bramble, > You have nothing to fear from Christians. You have much more to fear from > the Moslems that want to take over the world. As if Christians don't want to take over the world! Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 6 20 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <2Dhci.2$C3...@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1406071246330001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <f4rc1o$46...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >> > In article <WgYbi.3170$s8.2...@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > >> >>news:Jason-1306071303300001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > >> >>> The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence > > >> >>> that > > >> >>> there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > > >> >>> everyone that needed to be healed. > > >> >> Mighty convenient Jason, your god doesn't heal all just select ones. > > > I guess > > >> >> you need it that way to fit what we all know to be reality. > > > >> > If God healed all people of all medical problems--people would never > > >> > die. > > > >> Then why heal ANY of them? Your "logic" just doesn't pass muster. > > > > Because he enjoys answering the prayers of his servants--such as Christian > > > farmers praying for rain. > > > Why did he deny them the rain in the first place? > > Probably because natural weather patterns were the cause for the lack of rain. Bingo. And natural weather patterns cause the rain. And natural healing causes healing. And natural processes resulted in the stars, planets and the creatures than inhabit them. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 6 36 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <AMhci.10$C3...@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1406071220410001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <f4rbvv$46...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >> > In article <f4pa1r$vp...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > >> > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> >> Jason wrote: > > >> >>> In article <opc3k4-7or....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > >> >>> <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >>>> [snips] > > > >> >>>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:42:26 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > >> >>>>> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated > > >> >>>>> that > > >> >>>>> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened? > > >> >>>> Honestly, by stating the cause - if any, you haven't validated even > > > this > > >> >>>> much yet - simply isn't known yet. > > > >> >>>> "I don't know" is not the same as "Yes, there really is a super > > > being who, > > >> >>>> of all the thousands of such beings described, just happens to match > > >> >>>> this > > >> >>>> particular one and he really does heal people, but does it magically > > >> >>>> without leaving any evidence he did it - or even that he exists." > > > >> >>>> You see how those differ? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > >> >>> Have you considered that God is giving you evidence that he exists by > > >> >>> healing people? Maybe, some day, you'll let it sink in. > > >> >> Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god? > > > >> >> BTW, if I went to a doctor that had as bad of a healing rate as your > > >> >> god, I'd sue him for malpractice. > > > >> > The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are evidence > > >> > that > > >> > there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > > >> > everyone that needed to be healed. > > > >> Let's try to answer the question asked this time: > > > >> "Are all the people that aren't healed evidence that there is no god?" > > > > no > > > I don't understand Jason, if people who are healed are evidence there is a > > god why aren't those who are not healed evidence of the opposite position? > > I see it like this--and it's only my opinion--Weather is controlled by > natural weather patterns unless God intervenes And God doesn't ever intervene because he doesn't exist. Do you get it now? Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 On 6 15 , 5 37 , bramble <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 14 jun, 21:00, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > In article <g71373dfcekim64ogjoeu0v9but8ngn...@4ax.com>, Jim07D7 > > > <Jim0...@nospam.net> wrote: > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) said: > > > > >Bramble, > > > >You explained your point of view very well. Please tell me whether you > > > >think the other members of this newsgroup view abiogenesis as a theory > > > >that will be discarded when a better theory is developed? > > > > If no minds are changed in this discussion, at least they can be > > > informed of what science does and doesn't do. > > > > As a chemist, I believe the idea that biological life came about by > > > chemical reactions involving only energy and non-living matter > > > interacting in accordance with their physical properties (what you > > > call abiogenesis) is properly classified as a hypothesis, or a set of > > > hypotheses. There are several different hypothetical models for how > > > this might have happened, but none of them has been used in a > > > laboratory experiment to yield living organisms. If abiogenesis > > > happened on earth, it should not be particularly difficult to repeat > > > in a lab setting, once the correct conditions are set up. > > > > One reason this field is moving slowly is that there are no obvious > > > commercial applications that cannot be satisfied by starting with > > > biological materials. > > > > Note: proving abiogenesis can happen will not prove it did happen. > > > And even proving it did happen will not prove it was unguided or > > > undesigned. > > > > quoting from: > > > >http://servercc.oakton.edu/~billtong/eas100/scientificmethod.htm > > > > Below is a generalized sequence of steps taken to establish a > > > scientific theory: > > > > 1. Choose and define the natural phenomenon that you want to figure > > > out and explain. > > > 2. Collect information (data) about this phenomena by going where > > > the phenomena occur and making observations. Or, try to replicate > > > this phenomena by means of a test (experiment) under controlled > > > conditions (usually in a laboratory) that eliminates interference's > > > from environmental conditions. > > > 3. After collecting a lot of data, look for patterns in the data. > > > Attempt to explain these patterns by making a provisional explanation, > > > called a hypothesis. > > > 4. Test the hypothesis by collecting more data to see if the > > > hypothesis continues to show the assumed pattern. If the data does > > > not support the hypothesis, it must be changed, or rejected in favor > > > of a better one. In collecting data, one must NOT ignore data that > > > contradicts the hypothesis in favor of only supportive data. (That is > > > called "cherry-picking" and is commonly used by pseudo-scientists > > > attempting to scam people unfamiliar with the scientific method. A > > > good example of this fraud is shown by the so-called "creationists," > > > who start out with a pre-conceived conclusion - a geologically young, > > > 6,000 year old earth, and then cherry-pick only evidence that supports > > > their views, while ignoring or rejecting overwhelming evidence of a > > > much older earth.) > > > 5. If a refined hypothesis survives all attacks on it and is the > > > best existing explanation for a particular phenomenon, it is then > > > elevated to the status of a theory. > > > 6. A theory is subject to modification and even rejection if there > > > is overwhelming evidence that disproves it and/or supports another, > > > better theory. Therefore, a theory is not an eternal or perpetual > > > truth. > > > > unquote > > > Jim, > > Thanks for your excellent post. It is one of the most informative posts > > that I have read. I don't believe the earth is only 6,000 years old. > > Do you agree that abiogenesis will not become a valid theory unless > > experiments such as the ones you mentioned are successful? > > Jason > > You are confused with theories. Theories are theoretical. A therory > is valid so far as a majority of scientists would favor them. Plus, on top of that, there is plenty of evidence for abiogenesis and it has been posted repeatively. Jason (or the Jasons) refuse(s) to acknowledge this. Martin Quote
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