Guest Ralph Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 "Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1181952171.229936.187480@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 15, 11:56 pm, "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1181866254.662302.244500@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com... >> >> > I have a theory: perhaps "Jason" is more than one person and they are >> > being paid to post here. That would explain how they have been going >> > for a year and a half without saying anything new >> >> You mention that Jason has been around for a year and a half. In the >> group I >> read this he hasn't been here that long. From which group do you read his >> posts? > > He was saying the same thing in alt.atheism back in November of 2005. > Check his profile. > > Martin Thanks Martin. I'm in talk.creationism so that's why I wasn't familiar with him. He is an amusing fellow at times. He takes direct evidence against his beliefs, redirects the evidence and then denies it and goes blissfully on his way. Of course, this gets old after awhile. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:18 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <NDyci.167$W9...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1406071952230001@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <wgici.1412$ma....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > >>news:Jason-1406071218540001@66-52-22-51.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > >> > In article <%_aci.3526$s8.1...@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> >> "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > >> >>news:1181791042.696607.245920@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > > >> >> > On Jun 14, 8:37 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> >> >> > Even if Jesus himself > > >> >> >> > saiys not any word about this in the NT. > > > >> >> >> Yes, he does. He forgave a prostitute for her sins. He could have > > >> >> >> had > > >> >> >> her > > >> >> >> stoned to death--he did not do it. > > > >> >> > And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the Christian concept of a loving > > >> >> > god! > > > >> >> > Martin > > > >> >> Actually Jason the story about the prostitute was added to the bible. > > >> >> Jesus > > >> >> never had such an encounter. > > > >> > It was absent from the Alexandrian text but was in other > > >> > manuscripts--including in the writings of Augustine. > > > >> > I copied the above information from a footnote in my study Bible--the > > >> > editor was W.A. Criswell, Ph.D. > > > >> This story is not part of the original story told by John. You are > > >> correct > > >> that it is found in some manuscripts but not necessarily in John. I think > > >> the fact that it isn't in the best texts we have and that when it is > > >> found > > >> it is found in various places makes it pretty certain that the story was > > >> a > > >> later inclusion by the followers of Jesus. Which brings us to the > > >> writings > > >> of Augustine. While we can get valuable information from the writings of > > >> the > > >> early church fathers as to the composition of the earliest bible, it must > > >> also be remembered that the early church fathers wrote many of the things > > >> in > > >> the bible to support their point of view. > > > > There are footnotes in study Bibles about those sorts of cases. Several > > > months ago, National Geographic published "The Book of Judas". It may have > > > been portions of the book of Judas. I heard a television preacher say that > > > he found out that the Book of Judas was actually written several hundred > > > years after Judas died. Have you read anything about the Book of Judas? I > > > have not read it. > > > Jason > > > Why don't we stick to the point under discussion, was the story of the > > prostitute in the original writings of the bible? > > I have heard of the gospel of Judas but I haven't read it. I have read the > > gospel of Mary and I have the gospel of Thomas in my library. > > I have already told you what Dr. Criswell has stated about the prostitute story. Feh. I am supposed to believe one of your fellow Christians? Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:34 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <coe5735hper0t715cgkusb7l7i8i7lf...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > > > > <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:01:05 -0700, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >In article <7f50735gqg9n7ifa3ib8ucmhc2t0jd9...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > ><n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:48:04 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> >On 12 Jun., 19:42, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> >> In article <1181643770.817395.36...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > >> >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > >> >> > On 11 Jun., 21:54, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> >> > > In article <0de0k4-blk....@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > >> >snip > > > >> >> > A person that has been healed is evidence that he was healed. It is > > >> >> > not evidence of a god. > > > >> >> Yes, that is true. If I provided physical evidence which indicated that > > >> >> her leg bone grew 2 inches--how would you explain how it happened?- > > > >> >I would not be able to explain it, and that is not evidence that god > > >> >did it. > > > >> But then, Jason isn't about to provide any evidence either..... > > > >Why bother--several have told me that if I provided physical evidence to > > >prove that her leg bone grew two inches, they would still not believe that > > >God healed her leg. > > > One step at a time, Jason. First, prove that the event in question > > actually happened. A few undoctored before-and-after photos > > accompanied by the sworn testimony of at least two qualified medical > > professionals that the event did happen as described and is in fact > > medically unexplainable will do for that. > > > Once that's done to everyone's satisfaction, then we'll discuss > > whether or not it's convincing evidence for the existence of a god. > > > By the way, Jason ... second-hand "testimony" cribbed from some > > Christian web site is not evidence. > > We discussed this in another post. You don't discuss anything, Jason: you make your own assertions and ignore all evidence to the contrary. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:36 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <IVyci.174$W9...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1406071924070001@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <5ddu44F33sba...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote > > > >> snip > > > >> > I see it like this--and it's only my opinion--Weather is controlled by > > >> > natural weather patterns unless God intervenes such as by causing it to > > >> > rain to answer the prayers of Christian farmers. If God had not > > >> > intervened--the natural weather patterns would have determined the > > >> > weather. > > > >> So, your god had no problem with Hurricane Katrina? > > > > Natural disasters happen--you could make a list of thousands of natural > > > disasters. > > > Of course they do. Everything that happens in the world happens naturally > > unless man causes it. This includes the rains that come when they are needed > > as well as the droughts. The best explanation of the condition of the world > > is that no god or gods exist. That is the simplest and most logical > > conclusion that can be reached. No 'original' sin', no 'depravity' of man > > and no 'savior' needed. This is the world in which we live. > > We have a difference of opinion on this subject. Exactly. You believe in fairy tales. We don't. That's all there is to it. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:38 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <%Iyci.171$W9....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1406071927410001@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <umc373lsri877gg44m59jqfkek8p2nj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:32:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> <Jason-1406070132130...@66-52-22-114.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >In article > > >> ><DipthotDipthot-CCA16E.18144813062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > >> >655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > >> ... > > > >> >> Maybe you'd learn that there is none, and that you were wrong all > > >> >> along. > > > >> >> Don't be afraid that learning such a thing could shake your faith in > > >> >> your god. I know that wouldn't happen. > > > >> >I asked at least two people a question like this: > > > >> >If I produced physical evidence that proved that Cheryl's leg bone grew > > >> >two inches, would you agree that God healed her? > > > >> >Both posters told be that even if I proved that Cheryl's leg bone grew > > >> >two > > >> >inches, that it would NOT mean that God healed her. > > > >> Because it doesn't. It does not matter what you believe. Belief is not > > >> evidence. All you are doing is making an arrogant assertion and then > > >> whining because you are being asked to provide some evidence that God > > >> had anything to do with it, but you know you cannot. Stop whining. Stop > > >> lying. > > > > Belief is not evidence. In relation to abiogenesis, lots of people have a > > > belief that it happened that way. Belief is not evidence. > > > Let me ask you a question, Jason. Are you aware of the research that is > > being done in the field of abiogenesis? > > Yes, I visited one site that mentioned some of that research. Why didn't you go to your library and hunt down the research paper like you said you would? Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <gdf573djt6923jvr4tu751vbafjhpd9...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > > > > <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:27:40 -0700, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >In article <umc373lsri877gg44m59jqfkek8p2nj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:32:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> <Jason-1406070132130...@66-52-22-114.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >In article > > >> ><DipthotDipthot-CCA16E.18144813062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > >> >655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > >> ... > > > >> >> Maybe you'd learn that there is none, and that you were wrong all along. > > > >> >> Don't be afraid that learning such a thing could shake your faith in > > >> >> your god. I know that wouldn't happen. > > > >> >I asked at least two people a question like this: > > > >> >If I produced physical evidence that proved that Cheryl's leg bone grew > > >> >two inches, would you agree that God healed her? > > > >> >Both posters told be that even if I proved that Cheryl's leg bone grew two > > >> >inches, that it would NOT mean that God healed her. > > > >> Because it doesn't. It does not matter what you believe. Belief is not > > >> evidence. All you are doing is making an arrogant assertion and then > > >> whining because you are being asked to provide some evidence that God > > >> had anything to do with it, but you know you cannot. Stop whining. Stop > > >> lying. > > > >Belief is not evidence. In relation to abiogenesis, lots of people have a > > >belief that it happened that way. Belief is not evidence. > > > Actually, Jason, abiogenesis is an absolute proven fact. Whether it > > came about through divine intervention or by purely natural means, at > > some point in the planet's history, life did arise from non-life. We > > both agree on that. We just disagree about how it happened. > > Excellent point which will never, ever get through to you, apparently. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <fHyci.169$W9....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Everyone examines anything in light of their worldview. Some of us are able > > to see the truth even though we might be looking at something that is > > diametrically opposed to our worldview. Others can't see the splinter for > > the log. > > The advocates of creation science are able to do the same thing. And yet they never do. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:56 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4u916$5m...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <1181875577.541042.27...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> You missed the point: a dead body IS physical evidence. > > > >> Martin > > > > A leg bone that grows two inches IS physical evidence. > > > It's evidence that the leg was healed (assuming that such even happened) > > just like the dead body was evidence someone died. NOW work your way > > with OTHER evidence from "the leg was healed" to "goddidit." > > The dead body is evidence and the leg bone that grows two inches is > evidence. So if I were to tell you that Zeus grew _my_ leg two inches and I showed you my perfectly healthy leg as "evidence" then you would accept that Zeus existed? Or is that not evidence? Are you too thick to see there's no difference? Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 2:56 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In the case of Cheryl Prewitt, the main witness would be Cheryl Prewitt. I > believed the testimony of Cheryl Prewitt. That's your mistake right there: you believe liars. Of course, it's an old habbit for you as you've been believing lies all your life. It's time for you to wake up. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 3:00 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <rpyci.158$W9...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1406072142060001@66-52-22-95.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <1181876768.410178.262...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> On 6 15 , 6 15 , J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > > Bramble, > > >> > > > You explained your point of view very well. Please tell me whether > > >> > > > you > > >> > > > think the other members of this newsgroup view abiogenesis as a > > >> > > > theory > > >> > > > that will be discarded when a better theory is developed? > > > >> > > I dont know. Most of the people interested in science know that > > >> > > theories can be discarded if there are reasons to do it. Many > > >> > > science > > >> > > theories are defended > > >> > > with passion, in a similar way religious people defend their dogmas. > > >> > > But if the persona has a basic knowledge of how science works, then > > >> > > he > > >> > > knows that any theory is a temporary way to explain something. We > > >> > > like to have answers, theories that explain phenomena. Sometimes, we > > >> > > have not the slightess idea about a subject, but sometimes it seems > > >> > > that we have attractive ideas. We like them and put passion to defend > > >> > > them. We are humans, remember? We like to have answers. > > > >> > > What you say about fundamentalist churches, I don't like it a little > > >> > > bit. You are working a lot to create the party of god. You want to > > >> > > reconquer the state, and to found a fundamentalist dictatorship. And > > >> > > these are very bad news for me. > > >> > > Hitler started with much less that you, and look at the misery and > > >> > > death he begot. You are creating the very foundations for the next > > >> > > civil war in the US. > > >> > > Bramble > > > >> > Bramble, > > >> > You have nothing to fear from Christians. You have much more to fear > > >> > from > > >> > the Moslems that want to take over the world. > > > >> As if Christians don't want to take over the world! > > > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > > Not until Jesus comes back to establish his kingdom on the earth. In the > > > mean time, we have no plans to take over the world. The Muslims do plan to > > > take over the world ASAP. They are in the process of taking over the > > > Sudan. > > > Jason > > > When will he come, Jason? The bible says he will come 'soon'( my thanks to > > Jerry for this accumulation): > > We don't know. We are hoping that it will be soon. So did the people in the first century AD. Martin > > LOL. Depends on what the definition of "is" is? Don't attempt to > > > parse words to wiggle out of what the verses mean and furthermore, what > > > they mean IN CONTEXT. > > > > Let's try this a little more in depth. If this doesn't work we can > > > take each one of these and break them down even more for you. > > > > MATTHEW 16 (KJV) > > > 16:27 > > > For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his > > > angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. > > > > 16:28 > > > Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not > > > taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. > > > > 1 THESSALONIANS 4:15 (NIV) > > > According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that WE WHO ARE STILL > > > ALIVE, WE WHO ARE LEFT till the coming of the Lord, will certainly > > > not precede those who have fallen asleep. > > > > Hebrews 10 (NIV) > > > 36 > > > You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you > > > will receive what he has promised. > > > > 37 > > > For in just a VERY LITTLE WHILE, "He who is coming will come and WILL > > > NOT DELAY. > > > > JAMES 5:8 (KJV) > > > Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord > > > DRAWETH NIGH. > > > > I PETER 4:7 (KJV) > > > But the END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND: be ye therefore sober, and watch > > > unto prayer. > > > > I JOHN 2:18 (KJV) > > > Little children, it is the LAST TIME: and as ye have heard that > > > antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we > > > know that it is the last time. > > > > REVELATION (KJV) > > > 1:1 > > > The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto > > > his servants things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS; and he sent and > > > signified it by his angel unto his servant John: > > > > 1:3 > > > Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this > > > prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the > > > TIME IS AT HAND. > > > > 3:11 > > > Behold, I COME QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man > > > take thy crown. > > > > 22:7 > > > Behold, I COME QUICKLY: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the > > > prophecy of this book. > > > > 22:12 > > > And, behold, I COME QUICKLY; and my reward is with me, to give every > > > man according as his work shall be. > > > > 22:20 > > > He which testifieth these things saith, SURELY I COME QUICKLY. Amen. > > > Even so, come, Lord Jesus. > > > > ++++++++++++ > > > MATTHEW 10:23 (NIV) > > > When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I TELL YOU THE > > > TRUTH, YOU WILL NOT FINISH GOING THROUGH THE CITIES OF ISRAEL BEFORE > > > THE SON OF MAN COMES. > > > > COLOSSIANS 1:23 (NIV) > > > if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from > > > the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard > > > and THAT HAS BEEN PROCLAIMED TO EVERY CREATURE UNDER HEAVEN, and of > > > which I, Paul, have become a servant. > > > > Romans 10:18 > > > "Their voice has gone out into the all the > > > earth, their words to the ends of the world." > > > > Matthew 24:14 (NIV) > > > "And this gospel will be preached in the > > > whole world as a testimony to all nations, > > > AND THEN THE END WILL COME." Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 3:20 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <ped573tr7gn2ml76ors2aaiq7b5oqmc...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:19:53 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-1406072019540...@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <cis373lg4s0abmv6siu17mkkj6vl21s...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:37:11 -0700, in alt.atheism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> <Jason-1406071937110...@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >In article <l0c373tfbfr5u281gigmjrqo37di297...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >> ... > > >> >> That has absolutely nothing to do with the _fact_ that Jews, Christian, > > >> >> Moslems and Bahai all agree that they worship the same God, the God of > > >> >> Abraham. I don't know what god you worship. If you worship the God of > > >> >> Abraham, you worship the same God that Moslems worship. > > > >> >> Deal with reality sometime. I'm sick of the lies that you tell because > > >> >> you indulge in so much wishful thinking and intentional ignorance. > > > >> >If you choose to believe it--that is up to you. It's my opinion that Baal > > >> >and Allah are false Gods. > > > >> Your opinion is wrong. I don't care how many opinions you have that are > > >> derived from your intentional ignorance. Because you choose to be > > >> ignorant and dishonest, you deserve to be chastised. > > > >> Once again, the fact is that Allah is the Arabic word for God. You > > >> basically said in your proud ignorance, that Christian Arabs worship > > >> false gods because they call God Allah. You are a fool and a bigot. > > > >> >I have not conducted any research related to > > >> >Bahai. This sentence is from the Quran: > > > >> >"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and sieze them, > > >> >beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war)." > > >> >(Surah 9:5) > > > >> >From Surah 5:33 > > >> >"....cutting off of hands and feet..." > > > >> The doctrines of Islam may be considered heretical by Christians, but > > >> they are not Pagan. Learn the difference and stop worshipping your own > > >> ignorance. > > > >The president of Iran made this statement: > > >"Israel must be wiped off from the map of the world." > > > So what? That has nothing to do with whether he worships the same God > > you do. > > I believe that Allah is a false God. If you believe they are the same > God--that is up to you. All gods are false gods in the sense that they don't really exist. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 3:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > Someone was trying to convince me that Allah and Jehovah were the same > God. My point was that the Bible clearly states that Israel is the > homeland for Jews. The Muslims believe that Israel should be under the > control of Muslims. If they had the same God, they would only have one > holy book. In this case, they have the Koran and we have the Old Testament > and the New Testament. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koran "Muslims regard the Qur' n as the culmination of a series of divine messages that started with those revealed to Adam - regarded, in Islam, as the first prophet - and including the Suhuf-i-Ibrahim (Scrolls of Abraham/Ibrahim),[7] the Tawrat (Torah),[8][9] the Zabur (Psalms),[10][11] and the Injil (Gospel)[12][13][14]. The aforementioned books are recognized in the Qur' n, [15][16] and the Qur'anic text assumes familiarity [17] with many events from Jewish and Christian scriptures, retelling some of these events in distinctive ways, and referring obliquely to others. It rarely offers detailed accounts of historical events; the Qur'an's emphasis is typically on the moral significance of an event, rather than its narrative sequence." Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 3:56 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f4u3vf$h...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <f4rc1o$46...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >>> In article <WgYbi.3170$s8.2...@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > >>> <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >>>> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > >>>>news:Jason-1306071303300001@66-52-22-31.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > >>>>> The people (like Cheryl Prewitt) that are healed by God are > evidence that > > >>>>> there is a God. Even when Jesus was on this earth, he did not heal > > >>>>> everyone that needed to be healed. > > >>>> Mighty convenient Jason, your god doesn't heal all just select ones. > > > I guess > > >>>> you need it that way to fit what we all know to be reality. > > >>> If God healed all people of all medical problems--people would never die. > > >> Then why heal ANY of them? Your "logic" just doesn't pass muster. > > > > Because he enjoys answering the prayers of his servants--such as Christian > > > farmers praying for rain. > > > And what about the xian farmers that pray for rain and don't get it? > > > Are you saying god is capricious and arbitrary? > > There is a scripture that says something like this: > God's ways are not our ways. God's thoughts are not our thoughts. > > The point is that God has a reason for every action he takes. God doesn't take ANY actions because he doesn't exist. It's that simple. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 3:29 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in > > snip > > > > > In the case of Cheryl Prewitt, the main witness would be Cheryl Prewitt. I > > believed the testimony of Cheryl Prewitt. > > Why? Because he's ignorant and naive and believes anything that his fellow Godbots tell him. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 4:15 am, "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > news:Jason-1506071220320001@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > I believe that Allah is a false God. If you believe they are the same > > God--that is up to you. > > I believe all of the gods are false, all arising in an era of superstition > and ignorance. Jason is proving to us that superstition and ignrance exist to this day. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 5:59 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <5dg7koF34ssf...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in > > > snip > > > > In the case of Cheryl Prewitt, the main witness would be Cheryl Prewitt. I > > > believed the testimony of Cheryl Prewitt. > > > Why? > > After hearing her entire testimony, I found no reason to not believe her. She's Christian, isn't she? That's an excellent reason right there to not believe a word she says. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 6:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <QnCci.263$P8....@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Is that why your creation 'scientists' sign a pledge that if science > > produces evidence that the bible is wrong then that evidence is to be > > ignored? > > I doubt that is true. Who makes them sign the pledge? They are contractually obligated to lie. And I suspect you are too. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 6:20 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <4672fa8c$0$20560$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, "Christopher > Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1506071227220001@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <NDyci.165$W9...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Someone was trying to convince me that Allah and Jehovah were the same > > > God. My point was that the Bible clearly states that Israel is the > > > homeland for Jews. The Muslims believe that Israel should be under the > > > control of Muslims. If they had the same God, they would only have one > > > holy book. In this case, they have the Koran and we have the Old Testament > > > and the New Testament. > > > jason > > > The > > > Jason has been pointed out to you Allah is the Arabic word for God nothing > > more nothing less. The Jews do not say the name of God at all, and > > Christians just use the generic term God. Both the Christian and the Muslim > > are offshoots of Judaism so you both have Jewish roots and all three groups > > are in fact worshipping the same God. Furthermore you are also all > > worshiping the same Ultimate God of all other Faiths as well as St. > > Augustine said in "The City of God" the God we worship " is the God whom > > Porphyry, the most learned of philosophers, although the fiercest of enemy > > of the Christian, acknowledges to be a Great God..." Furthermore, the Pagan > > Maximus of Tyre wrote: "In the midst of such contention and strife, and > > disagreement you would see in all the earth one harmonious law and principle > > that there is one God, king and father of all, and many gods, sons of God, > > fellow rulers with God. The Greek says this and the barbarian says it, the > > mainlander and the seafarer, the wise and the unwise." > > We have a different point of view related to this subject. I have read > some of quotations from the Quran and found out that there are MAJOR > differences between the Koran and the Bible. Here is just one example: > > From the Quran: > Fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, > beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war). > Surah 9:5 > > "...cutting off of hands and feet...." Surah 5:33 > > Needless to say, you will not find words like that in the New Testament. > > Jesus said, "Love your neighbor as yourself". Jesus never taught his > followers to cut off the hands and feet of pagans or to slay pagans. http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm Murder in the Bible The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children. The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Capital Punishment Crimes: Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT) Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB) Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB) Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT) Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB) Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB) Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB) 2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT) Death for Blasphemy One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT) Kill False Prophets 1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT) 2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT) Infidels and Gays Should Die So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT) Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT) Kill People for Working on the Sabbath The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons: Kill Brats From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB) God Kills the Curious And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth- shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV) Killed by a Lion Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT) Killing the Good Samaritan The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals. When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Murdering Children Kill Sons of Sinners Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB) God Will Kill Children The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT) Kill Men, Women, and Children "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT) God Kills all the First Born of Egypt And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT) Kill Old Men and Young Women "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26) (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.) God Will Kill the Children of Sinners If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT) More Rape and Baby Killing Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) Miscellaneous Murders More of Samson's Murders (The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB) Peter Kills Two People There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this - conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT) Mass Murder This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB) You Have to Kill Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB) The Danites Kill the Next Town But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB) God Kills Some More Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT) God Promises More Killing I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT) The Angel of Death My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB) Destruction of Ai Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night. Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open. Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua. When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day - twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT) Killing at Jericho When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys - everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT) God Kills an Extended Family "You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT) Mass Murder The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB) The Angel of Death That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB) Kill Your Neighbors (Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT) Kill the Family of Sinners And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible) Kill Followers of Other Religions While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT) Murder At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT) Kill All of Babylon "Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT) Micah Kills a Whole Town Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.) Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 6:40 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > There is one > church in California called Unity Fellowship. The preachers are more like > psychologists than real preachers. There is a television show that is > broadcast on Sunday morning called the "Hour of Power". The preacher never > discusses Bible doctrines. He teaches messages related to psychology and > sociology. I have never heard him preach messages from the Bible. Why should he? Its' all a pack of lies. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 6:51 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <YfCci.259$P8....@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-1506071232280001@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <f4u6pm$3i...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >> > In article <f4s386$se...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > >> > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > >> >> Then by what logic are those who ARE healed "evidence for god?" > > > >> > It's a case by case basis. In the case of Cheryl Prewitt and William > > >> > Kent, > > >> > it is my opinion that it is evidence of God. That does not mean that > > >> > all > > >> > healings are evidence for God. For example, if someone develops a > > >> > common > > >> > cold and the man prays--and the cold goes away in three weeks---that is > > >> > not evidence for God. > > > >> I.e. "If I think it's evidence for god, then it's evidence for god. If I > > >> don't, then it's not." > > > > Each person has to come to their own conclusions. > > > Each person needs to examine the evidence before coming to their own > > conclusions. I realize this is counterintuitive for you but you really need > > to try it. > > The advocates of abiogenesis should do the same thing. We do. It's called science. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 6:51 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > "We now have living cells so it is logical to conclude that they evolved > naturally". "We now have a healthy leg so it is logical to conclude that it had magically grown two inches." > That is NOT evidence--it's speculation. Bingo. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 6:51 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <YfCci.259$P8....@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Each person needs to examine the evidence before coming to their own > > conclusions. I realize this is counterintuitive for you but you really need > > to try it. > > The advocates of abiogenesis should do the same thing. Some of the > advocates of abiogenesis know the difference between speculation and > evidence. However, it became apparent to me from reading various posts > that some of the advocates of abiogenesis do NOT know the difference > between speculation and evidence. One person stated something like this: > > "We now have living cells so it is logical to conclude that they evolved > naturally". Unless you are making an exact quote then you are lying. > That is NOT evidence--it's speculation. > > Extra-ordinary claims need extra-ordinary evidence--it's not present in > regard to abiogenesis. > > There are at least two other possibilities about how living cells came to be: > intelligent design and ancient astronauts. Those are not possibilities. They are fantasies. Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 In article <QbFci.4085$c06.4024@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > > The article that I read indicated that various Mullahs are encouraging > > various followers to move to Spain. After Muslims become the majority of > > the population, they will vote in Muslim politicians that will eventually > > establish Spain as a Muslim country and establish the same sorts of laws > > that they now have in Iran. > > Are you actually concerned about this? In what source did this article > appear? What political agenda does the author have? > > -- > 655321 I stated that it was from an article but later remembered the source: A Christian television preacher named John Hagee. He wrote a book entitled, "Jerusalem Countdown". It's his opinion that the president of Iran plans to fire a nuclear missle at Israel. He pointed out that the president of Iran made this statement, "Israel must be wiped off the map of the world." He either made the statement about Spain in his sermon or discussed that subject in his book. He probably has a website. I watch his television show every Sunday. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 In article <lYEci.1211$s9.993@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-1506071621450001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <OxDci.291$P8.214@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-1506071523550001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <GsCci.266$P8.179@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> news:Jason-1506071212400001@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> > In article <Lsyci.160$W9.143@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> >> news:Jason-1406072027180001@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> >> > In article <j2t373d3n0dafs1r9ffao27cp6i1hi7qft@4ax.com>, Free > >> >> >> > Lunch > >> >> >> > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:47:26 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> >> >> <Jason-1406071947270001@66-52-22-82.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >> >> >In article <e4c37352rsu9akoeoi2jld8sdh7bpn28n3@4ax.com>, Free > >> >> >> >> >Lunch > >> >> >> >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:35:14 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> >> >> >> <Jason-1406070135150001@66-52-22-114.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >> >> >> >In article <0c41731qbu3l8n3j7rhumqe3vmdvf5rvs7@4ax.com>, > >> >> >> >> >> >Free > >> >> >> >> >> >Lunch > >> >> >> >> >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:22:57 -0700, in > >> >> >> >> >> >> alt.talk.creationism > >> >> >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> >> >> >> >> <Jason-1306070022570001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >In article > >> >> >> > <1181708123.776350.23860@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> >> >> >> >> >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 13, 11:59 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > In article > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > <1181695356.967104.238...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> >> >> >> >Martin > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ... > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > By the way, Genesis 1 says "El" created the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > universe > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > and > >> >> >> > mankind but > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Genesis 2 says it was "Yahweh". > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Do you have the verses? El may be one of the many > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > names > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > of > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > God. > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In fact, Genesis 1 talks about the Elohim, which means > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "gods", > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> in > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> plural. (e.g. Genesis 6:2, "... the sons of Elohim saw > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> daughters > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> of men that they were fair; and they took them for > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> wives... > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ,") > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >This is in reference to the intermarriage among the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Cainites > >> >> >> >> >> >> >and > >> >> >> > Sethites. > >> >> >> >> >> >> >The Cainites were sinful, evil people and the Sethites > >> >> >> >> >> >> >were > >> >> >> >> >> >> >devoted and > >> >> >> >> >> >> >consecrated to God. God became very upset with the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Sethites > >> >> >> >> >> >> >for > >> >> >> >> >> >> >taking > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Cainite women as their wives since God wanted them to > >> >> >> >> >> >> >only > >> >> >> >> >> >> >marry > >> >> >> > Sethite > >> >> >> >> >> >> >women. > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >I copied most of the above info. from a footnote in my > >> >> >> >> >> >> >study > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Bible. > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Jason > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> The authors of your study bible note were making it up. > >> >> >> >> >> >> They > >> >> >> >> >> >> have > >> >> >> >> >> >> no > >> >> >> >> >> >> evidence at all that their claim is correct. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Should I believe you or the words of the W.A. Chriswell, > >> >> >> >> >> >Ph.D--the > >> >> >> >> >> >editor > >> >> >> >> >> >of my study Bible or yourself--take a guess on my choice. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> I know that you would be mistaken to believe those who make > >> >> >> >> >> things > >> >> >> >> >> up > >> >> >> >> >> like this, but I also know that you have a demonstrated > >> >> >> >> >> willingness > >> >> >> >> >> to > >> >> >> >> >> be led astray by those who tell you what you want to hear. > >> >> >> >> >> Chriswell > >> >> >> >> >> does not have _any_ evidence that "this is in reference to > >> >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> >> intermarriage among the Cainites and Sethites." > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Deal with facts. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >I have no reason to doubt Dr. Chriswell. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> That's because you reject the whole concept of evidence. Anyone > >> >> >> >> can > >> >> >> >> tell > >> >> >> >> you any lie as long as they claim God wants it. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Still, I wouldn't be surprised if you misrepresented what > >> >> >> >> Chriswell > >> >> >> >> said, you do have a long track record of misunderstanding what > >> >> >> >> others > >> >> >> >> are trying to tell you and misrepresenting these things to > >> >> >> >> others. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Buy or read the Criswell Study Bible and see the evidence for > >> >> >> > yourself. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I have many books on the study of the bible. I question each and > >> >> >> every > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> when I read them. I then form my own conclusion on what I read. You > >> >> >> could > >> >> >> use a little objective analysis. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have two study Bibles. One of them did not have a footnote about > >> >> > the > >> >> > scripture in question. I have a Bible dictionary but it was poorly > >> >> > written > >> >> > since many words that I have searched for are not in the dictionary. > >> >> > My > >> >> > 1000 page concordance has been really helpful. > >> >> > Jason > >> >> > >> >> What you need are a few books on textual criticism. That'll open your > >> >> eyes. > >> >> Well, it would on an ordinary person. > >> > > >> > I once knew someone that had such a book. He loved to discuss various > >> > scriptures that he found in that book. > >> > >> Why don't you buy a copy of Misquoting Jesus and read it? > > > > I have no desire to read such a book. A book written by Tom Clancy would > > be more interesting to me. Someone suggested that I read a book related to > > Quantum Physics--that made me laugh. I barely passed the college math 101 > > class. > > Jason > > If you don't care to read 'such a book',then you have no authority to argue > with others when it comes to your bible. Don't be ignorant all of your life, > do something about it! You should consider reading this book: "Jerusalem Countdown" by a television preacher named John Hagee. Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 On Jun 16, 7:06 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1iv573117ivs5agfgk2di9kjs5qim6j...@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > In alt.atheism On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:12:37 -0700, J...@nospam.com > > (Jason) let us all know that: > > > >In article <pue373hcaj30bj1jcgp9lfvpf27cukl...@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > > ><ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > > >> In alt.atheism On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:44:42 -0700, J...@nospam.com > > >> (Jason) let us all know that: > > >> >thanks for your answers--you get a grade of A. > > > >> That's nice. Now respond to my answers. > > > >Did your teachers in high school and professors in college respond to > > >every answer you gave on every test or exam? > > > Yes. Now respond to my answers. > > Do you want me to write "excellent answer" next to each answer. I'll do > that if you want me to do it. My first grade teacher made use of check > marks and x marks. The difference between you and your first grade teacher is that she was probably literate. Martin Quote
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