Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:15 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206071846150001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jfk1f@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2206071827450001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <1182560736.318058.6100@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> ... >> >> >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their >> >> beliefs. >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I >> >believe Allah is a false God. >> >> Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that >> the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious >> beliefs? > >I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did >not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: > >Here is a quotation from the Quran: > >That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the >Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it >was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of >doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of >a surety they did not kill him. Not enough context there. >Summary >Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that >Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. The Trinity, including the concept of Jesus as God, is an expansion of the idea of what the God of Abraham is. The fact that Moslems reject the Christian doctrine that Jesus is God does not mean that they do not worship the God of Abraham. It is Christians who have redefined the God of Abraham to include Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Moslems, Jews and Bahai do not accept the Trinitarian variance that most Christians have introduced. >Related to Allah--It's my opinion that he is a false God. Again, you can repeat your opinion as much as you want. It will still be wrong. >If anyone in this newsgroup chooses to believe that Allah and Jehovah are >the same God--that is up to them Because that is what Christians and Moslems teach. Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Jun 23, 9:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182559470.259255.81...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 23, 2:58 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > Public school teachers would teach ID--if it was legal in that state. > > > Then they would no longer be teachers but priests and priestesses > > working for the government. There would no longer be a separation of > > church and state. The lies of religion are rightfully kept in church > > where they belong and where people are not required to go if they > > don't want to.. > > There is no Biblical content in that textbook. And yet you claimed even children would know who the "intelligent designer" was. Apparently the judge at Dover was at least as smart as a child. Martin Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:48:21 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206071848220001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <9fso731v5rsiaem27pgc8qlmho8jcrarl8@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:58:14 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2206071758150001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <75ro73lv0419941tqo8qkse203jtsc993n@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:38:25 -0700, in alt.atheism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-2206071738260001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <1182558421.950316.128660@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> >Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 23, 2:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article <f9un73t8fle3mlf54s3ofrobmm5ahm0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:15:00 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> >> > > <Jason-2006072215010...@66-52-22-112.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> ... >> >> >> > > >It's a Bible doctrine based on a commandment--"Thou shalt have >> >no other >> >> >> > > >gods before me." >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > But, according to you, that commandment was given by a different god >> >> >> > > than the one you believe in. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I did not state that. >> >> >> >> >> >> He's claiming that Allah gave the commandments to Moses. >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> >Jehovah gave the commandments to Moses. >> >> > >> >> And no one but you claims there is a difference between Jehovah and >> >> Allah. Everyone agrees that that the difference comes from the languages >> >> being used, nothing else. Both are names for the God of Abraham. >> >> >> >> You claim otherwise, but have no evidence to support your claim. >> > >> >John Hagee, a famous television preacher, wrote a book entitled, >> >"Jerusalem Countdown". I read the book. He appeared to me to believe that >> >Allah was a false God. >> >> Since you are an unreliable witness, I have no idea if it is true or not >> that he wrote this, but it is wrong. Allah is the Arabic name for the >> God of Abraham, nothing else. >> >> >He did not have any positive things to write >> >(unless I missed it) about the Quran or Muhammad. >> >> You are confusing the religion with the God it worships. They worship >> the God of Abraham. If you think that the God of Abraham is a false god, >> just say so. >> >> The Quran is not God. Muhammed is not God. Learn to understand words and >> concepts before you spout off. > >If you choose to believe that Allah and Jehovah are the same God--that is >up to you but don't expect me to agree with you. > I know that you are wedded to your false teachings. Still, you are not the one who defines Christian or Islamic doctrine, so your ignorant lies are of no concern to me. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 01:56:34 -0000, in alt.atheism Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in <1182563794.394608.234120@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>: >On Jun 23, 9:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article <1182559470.259255.81...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > On Jun 23, 2:58 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > Public school teachers would teach ID--if it was legal in that state. >> >> > Then they would no longer be teachers but priests and priestesses >> > working for the government. There would no longer be a separation of >> > church and state. The lies of religion are rightfully kept in church >> > where they belong and where people are not required to go if they >> > don't want to.. >> >> There is no Biblical content in that textbook. > >And yet you claimed even children would know who the "intelligent >designer" was. Apparently the judge at Dover was at least as smart as >a child. It could have been that global search and replace that they did to try to get people believe that they didn't mean "Creator" any more when they replaced it with "Intelligent Designer". Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182562988.188999.148370@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 7:28 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <hhjo73978tqo0uuvim7590a8ou2qkj1...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:17:30 -0700, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >In article <kkeo73dv42oar8dbei02rgecphkfkav...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > ><n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:26:44 -0400, Mike <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> >Jason wrote: > > > >> >> In article <f5gft7$sa...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > >> >> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > > > >> >>> Jason wrote: > > > >> >>>> A body is evidence. Two legs that are the same size are evidence. Her > > > >> >>>> medical records (eg X-rays) related to the car accident are > > evidence. The > > > >> >>>> testimony of the doctor that removed two inches of crushed leg bone is > > > >> >>>> evidence. > > > >> >>> But there's no evidence of this god. That's the step that you're > > > >> >>> skipping over. > > > > > >> >>> 1: prove that something happened (such as this leg growing.) > > > > > >> >>> 2: prove that a god exists. > > > > > >> >>> 3: prove that this god is the most likely explanation for #1. > > > > > >> >>> You haven't even done step 1 but even if you had, you still haven't > > > >> >>> begun on #2. You just want to jump from claiming step 1 is true to > > > >> >>> claiming step 3 is true. > > > > > >> >> That is a good point. However, the point was that the body was evidence > > > >> >> and that Cheryl also has evidence. > > > > > >> >She does? Where? Did you see any xrays? Did you see any "before and > > > >> >after" pictures? Remember, testimony is NOT evidence. > > > > > >> <PIGGYBACKING> > > > > > >> >> In both cases, the evidence might not > > > >> >> be enough to convince a jury-- > > > > > >> Then why should it be enough to convince you? > > > > > >> >>but it is evidence. > > > > > >> Is it? Have you actually seen it? > > > > > >No, I believed her testimony. > > > > > Yes, you've made that abundantly clear. > > > > > >I also know that doctors and hospitals keep > > > >copies of medical records for many years. > > > > > Yes they do. But unless you've actually seen the records pertaining to > > > Prewitt's (alleged) case, you have no proof her story is true. And > > > given the tendency you've displayed thus far toward shameless > > > dishonesty, if you want to convince us of the truth of Prewitt's > > > claims, you're going to have to show us those records. Your word, > > > I'm afraid, isn't good enough. > > > > > In fact, given your posting history, if you told me grass is green, > > > I'd look out the window for confirmation. > > > > Several posters have told me that even if I proved to them that both of > > legs are now the same size despite having two inches of bone removed from > > one leg--they would still not believe that God healed her leg. > > Because the pieces of bone were never removed: that's not something a > doctor would do to a young girl's leg. Consider the Hippocratic Oath: > > "I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability > and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain > from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly > medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in > like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. > With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. > I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this > to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever > houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and > will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, > further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. > Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in > connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not > to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such > should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, > may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, > respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate > this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!" > > See http://www.doctorslounge.com/oath.htm > > A doctor could get charged with malpractice for removing bone from a > young girl's leg. After all, a young girl's leg will heal naturally, > given time. And this would have been what happened. > > You have no evidence that the doctors did such a thing as you claim. > > Martin Martin, Cheryl Prewitt was involved in a serious car accident. Her leg bone was crushed. The doctor removed the crushed section of bone (2 inches) and placed the two remaining sections of bone together with pins. My friend lost 4 inches of crushed leg bone as a result of an accident. He wears a platform shoe on one foot and walks with a limp. Jason Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Jun 23, 9:23 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182560140.987141.276...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 23, 3:18 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <bk3o73lml7a9vikfoalkm00u625st6a...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:59:01 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > <Jason-2206071059010...@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >In article <f5gfvc$sa...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > ><prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Jason wrote: > > > > >> > In article <1182476566.139983.309...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, > > > Martin > > > > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> >> On Jun 22, 1:47 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> >>> A body is evidence. Two legs that are the same size are > evidence. Her > > > > >> >>> medical records (eg X-rays) related to the car accident are > evidence. > > > > >> >> You admitted to never seeing her medical records. You said > you didn't > > > > >> >> have to, that you believed her anyway. Don't lie now about having > > > > >> >> seen X-rays. > > > > > >> >>> The > > > > >> >>> testimony of the doctor that removed two inches of crushed > leg bone is > > > > >> >>> evidence. > > > > >> >> What testimony? Only evil men lie, Jason. > > > > > >> >> Martin > > > > > >> > I did not state that I had seem her medical records in the > above post. > > > > >> > Re-read the above post. > > > > > >> You claimed that the x-rays are evidence. They are not if they don't > > > > >> exist. Have you seen them? > > > > > >No--but that does not mean they don't exist. The doctor that removed the > > > > >two inches of leg bone has the X-rays. I don't know whether or not Cheryl > > > > >Prewitt has copies of her X-rays. > > > > > You seem to be violently opposed to one of the fundamental concepts of > > > > logic that has been used by science: It is wrong to assume that > > > > something exists when there is no evidence to support your assumption. > > > > That applies to the law of parsimony and to the null hypothesis. If you > > > > refuse to use both of those concepts, you will be unable to think > > > > critically. > > > > Unlike you, I heard Cheryl Prewitt give her detailed testimony. I posted a > > > summary version of her testimony in this newsgroup. Her name is mentioned > > > in over 700 websites. You know that hospitals and doctors keep the medical > > > records of their patients--mainly for legal reasons. > > > She would be entitled to request copies. > > > You do realize that medical journals exist and that a story like this, > > if it were true, would be in a medical journal, don't you? You'd > > expect far more than 700 hits on google in that case. My name gets > > 1,130,000 hits. Is Phipps really that common? Is Martin? > I spelled her name Cheryl Pruitt instead of the proper spelling of Cheryl > Prewitt and got over 20 hits. Her story might be in medical journals. I > would not even know how to find out. It would be a waste of time since I > doubt if anyone in this newsgroup would ever believe anyone was healed by > God. If you googled "miracle healings" you would find hundreds of cases of > miracle healings but you don't accept that sort of evidence. Not when they've all been refuted as hoaxes, no. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > On Jun 23, 3:51 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <ms5o73ttf78o2scnk7qtvk1v2njahsf...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:39:21 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > <Jason-2206071139220...@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >In article <f9un73t8fle3mlf54s3ofrobmm5ahm0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:15:00 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > >> <Jason-2006072215010...@66-52-22-112.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >> >In article <28kj73pr3bpr6c01kt81cl1b3pdae1g...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > >> >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:10:26 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > >> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > >> >> <Jason-2006071910260...@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >> >> >In article <igij73lncmssoprskphcef08i3nd0db...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > >> >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:44:35 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > >> >> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > >> >> >> <Jason-2006071844360...@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >> >> >> >In article > > > > ><1182380497.144640.154...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > >> >> >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> >> On Jun 21, 3:13 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > >> >> >> >> > In article > > > > <1182348318.114973.155...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > >> >> >> >> > > On 19 Jun., 19:08, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > In article <4677E977.68603...@osu.edu>, Jim Burns > > > > >> >> >> ><burns...@osu.edu> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > In [respose to] article > > <1182230648.471813.37...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > George Chen <georgech...@yahoo.com> > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > [...] > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > I feel sorry for all of the people that will > go to hell > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > instead of going to heaven. > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > How do you feel when you realize you are more > > > compassionate, > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > a BETTER PERSON, than the God you believe in, even as > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > sinful as you are? > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > Jason, a lot of people have told you that > creationism is > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > bad science, and it is. But, beyond that, you > should be > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > able to realize, even without a single science course, > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > that biblical literalism is much worse theology than > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > it is science. > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > Jim Burns > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > Jim, > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > I understand your point but disagree with you. God does > > > > >not want > > > > >> >> >> >people to > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > go to hell (John 3:16). If people go to hell, it is NOT > > > > >> >God's fault. > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > Of course it is. He created hell. He can let > everybody out. > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > Instead, it is the fault of the people that turned > > > their backs > > > > >> >> >on God. > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > Would atheists be happy in heaven? I doubt it. > Heaven is for > > > > >> >> >people that > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > enjoy worshipping God. I doubt that atheists would enjoy > > > > >> >> >worshipping God > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > or following his rules. > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > Atheists do not turn their backs on god. > > > > > >> >> >> >> > They don't even believe that God exists which is even > worse than > > > > >> >turning > > > > >> >> >> >> > their backs on God. > > > > > >> >> >> >> Are you turing you back on Zeus? > > > > > >> >> >> >> Martin > > > > > >> >> >> >Yes--and every other false God. > > > > > >> >> >> Could you explain to us what standard of evidence you use for > > > > >> >> >> determining which gods are true and which are false? > > > > > >> >> >It's mainly based on faith. Books have been written on this > subject. > > > > > >> >> So you claim that the god you believe in is true but the ones > you don't > > > > >> >> believe in are false. Why should anyone be persuaded? > > > > > >> >It's a Bible doctrine based on a commandment--"Thou shalt have > no other > > > > >> >gods before me." > > > > > >> But, according to you, that commandment was given by a different god > > > > >> than the one you believe in. > > > > > >I did not state that. > > > > > Do you worship the God of Israel or the Triune God? You are the one who > > > > insisted, contrary to the doctrines of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and > > > > Bahai, that they don't all worship the God of Abraham. Since you insist > > > > on that, you'll have to come up with a better explanation of your > > > > doctrine than "I say so, so there" which is where you are right now. > > > > The Bible is the only evidence that I have. > > > Your book is not evidence. > > > > The Bible makes it clear that > > > the God of Abraham is the true God. The Bible contains the word of God. If > > > people have a different holy book other than the Bible--they are > > > worshipping a false God. > > > Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > > beliefs. > > Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > believe Allah is a false God. I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not convincing evidence. Thank you. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Jun 23, 9:07 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182559318.400394.79...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 23, 2:55 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <sbtn73187me30fr561n1btfpo0u3sho...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:33:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > <Jason-2106071633200...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >In article <BnBei.158$n9...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > ><mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > >>news:Jason-2106071151200001@66-52-22-87.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > ... > > > > > >> > They can teach evolution and Intellegent Design. > > > > > >> You never did tell me what science there is in ID. I assume that > as an ID > > > > >> supporter you would know such things. For example, what is the > difference > > > > >> between intelligent and non-intelligent design? How do we test for a > > > theory > > > > >> of ID? How do we search for the designer? What steps can we use to > > > find the > > > > >> designer? This is an honest question and one that all ID > proponents must > > > > >> answer if there is to be a theory of ID. > > > > > >The course would be to cover the basics of Intelligent Design. They > have a > > > > >textbook entitled, "Of Panda and People". The textbook has 170 pages and > > > > >no Biblical content. The textbook contains interpretations of classic > > > > >evidences in harmony with the creation model. As far as I know, God > is not > > > > >mentioned as the intelligent designer as far as the course is concerned. > > > > >Instead, the term "intelligent designer" is used instead of "God". This > > > > >was done so the book and course could not be called "religion" by the > > > > >advocates of evolution. The plan did not work. The advocates of evolution > > > > >do not would children to learn about intelligent design since they are > > > > >afraid that children would realize that it makes more sense than > > > > >evolution. The advocates of evolution do not want competition. > > > > > So it doesn't bother you that the authors of _Of Pandas and People_ are > > > > liars? It doesn't bother you that they don't care at all about the First > > > > Amendment? It doesn't bother you that they lied to a judge in a federal > > > > trial? > > > > > Tell me again why you claim to be a Christian. > > > > There is a law. There goal was to comply with the law. > > > No, their goal was to get around the law, but they didn't fool > > anybody. As you said yourself, even children would know that > > "intelligent design" is religion in disguise. > You failed to tell me your opinion about the Roman Empire site that I > referred you to. I have no opinion about the site because I didn't look at it. When I was in high school, I read the book "The Fall of the Roman Empire" as part of my grade 11 history course so I am probably more familiar with the history of the Roman Empire than you. Do you want to actually test me on the subject? Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Jun 23, 9:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jf...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-2206071827450...@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > ><phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > ... > > > >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > > >> beliefs. > > > >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > > >believe Allah is a false God. > > > Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that > > the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious > > beliefs? > > I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did > not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: > > Here is a quotation from the Quran: > > That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the > Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it > was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of > doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of > a surety they did not kill him. > > Summary > Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that > Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. So? Jesus never existed. So they are both wrong. Martin Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 02:04:09 -0000, in alt.talk.creationism Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in <1182564249.084179.188880@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>: >On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: .... >> Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I >> believe Allah is a false God. > >I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not >convincing evidence. Thank you. Jason's ego is as large as his ignorance. Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Jun 23, 10:01 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182562988.188999.148...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > On Jun 23, 7:28 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <hhjo73978tqo0uuvim7590a8ou2qkj1...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:17:30 -0700, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >In article <kkeo73dv42oar8dbei02rgecphkfkav...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > > ><n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:26:44 -0400, Mike <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> >Jason wrote: > > > > >> >> In article <f5gft7$sa...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > >> >> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > > > >> >>> Jason wrote: > > > > >> >>>> A body is evidence. Two legs that are the same size are > evidence. Her > > > > >> >>>> medical records (eg X-rays) related to the car accident are > > > evidence. The > > > > >> >>>> testimony of the doctor that removed two inches of crushed > leg bone is > > > > >> >>>> evidence. > > > > >> >>> But there's no evidence of this god. That's the step that you're > > > > >> >>> skipping over. > > > > > >> >>> 1: prove that something happened (such as this leg growing.) > > > > > >> >>> 2: prove that a god exists. > > > > > >> >>> 3: prove that this god is the most likely explanation for #1. > > > > > >> >>> You haven't even done step 1 but even if you had, you still haven't > > > > >> >>> begun on #2. You just want to jump from claiming step 1 is true to > > > > >> >>> claiming step 3 is true. > > > > > >> >> That is a good point. However, the point was that the body was > evidence > > > > >> >> and that Cheryl also has evidence. > > > > > >> >She does? Where? Did you see any xrays? Did you see any "before and > > > > >> >after" pictures? Remember, testimony is NOT evidence. > > > > > >> <PIGGYBACKING> > > > > > >> >> In both cases, the evidence might not > > > > >> >> be enough to convince a jury-- > > > > > >> Then why should it be enough to convince you? > > > > > >> >>but it is evidence. > > > > > >> Is it? Have you actually seen it? > > > > > >No, I believed her testimony. > > > > > Yes, you've made that abundantly clear. > > > > > >I also know that doctors and hospitals keep > > > > >copies of medical records for many years. > > > > > Yes they do. But unless you've actually seen the records pertaining to > > > > Prewitt's (alleged) case, you have no proof her story is true. And > > > > given the tendency you've displayed thus far toward shameless > > > > dishonesty, if you want to convince us of the truth of Prewitt's > > > > claims, you're going to have to show us those records. Your word, > > > > I'm afraid, isn't good enough. > > > > > In fact, given your posting history, if you told me grass is green, > > > > I'd look out the window for confirmation. > > > > Several posters have told me that even if I proved to them that both of > > > legs are now the same size despite having two inches of bone removed from > > > one leg--they would still not believe that God healed her leg. > > > Because the pieces of bone were never removed: that's not something a > > doctor would do to a young girl's leg. Consider the Hippocratic Oath: > > > "I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability > > and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain > > from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly > > medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in > > like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. > > With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. > > I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this > > to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever > > houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and > > will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, > > further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. > > Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in > > connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not > > to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such > > should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, > > may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, > > respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate > > this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!" > > > Seehttp://www.doctorslounge.com/oath.htm > > > A doctor could get charged with malpractice for removing bone from a > > young girl's leg. After all, a young girl's leg will heal naturally, > > given time. And this would have been what happened. > > > You have no evidence that the doctors did such a thing as you claim. > Cheryl Prewitt was involved in a serious car accident. Her leg bone was > crushed. The doctor removed the crushed section of bone (2 inches) and > placed the two remaining sections of bone together with pins. No, he didn't. Why do you continue to post the same lies over and over again? Do you think that we are children and that repetatitive exposure to lies will make us believe them? Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182563716.516862.110290@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 9:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182559237.898964.32...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:51:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > <Jason-2106071151200...@66-52-22-87.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >In article <1182427767.298489.13...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > ><phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Jun 21, 3:56 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > >> > Remember learning about the Scopes Monkey Trial. The Christians were > > > > > >> > trying to keep out the teaching of evolution in the public > > schools. I do > > > > > >> > believe that the advocates of evolution are doing the same > > thing those > > > > > >> > Christians done--keeping out the competition. They have the judges on > > > > > >> > their side so they will probably succeed. > > > > > > > >> The Judges of today are in place to prevent such a travesty of justice > > > > > >> from occuring again: Scopes LOST the right to teach the truth about > > > > > >> evolution to his students. Eventually teachers won the right to teach > > > > > >> the truth: you want to take that right away from them and have them > > > > > >> teach creationism instead. > > > > > > > >They can teach evolution and Intellegent Design. > > > > > > > What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? > > > > > > They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and curriculum > > > > guide to teach those classes. > > > > > You didn't answer the question, Jason. > > > I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't know what > > sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. > > Have you even seen this book you are recommending? Do you remember it > containing any scientific facts? What were they? > > Martin Martin, No--I don't recall recommending the book to anyone. Someone asked me what sort of information would be taught which is why I looked for the title of the book in the ICR newsletter. The description indicated the book had "no Biblical content." Related to another post: What sort of creature did the cluster of one celled life forms evolve into? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182564394.114180.179440@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 9:07 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182559318.400394.79...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 23, 2:55 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <sbtn73187me30fr561n1btfpo0u3sho...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:33:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > <Jason-2106071633200...@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >In article <BnBei.158$n9...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > ><mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > > >>news:Jason-2106071151200001@66-52-22-87.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > >> > They can teach evolution and Intellegent Design. > > > > > > > >> You never did tell me what science there is in ID. I assume that > > as an ID > > > > > >> supporter you would know such things. For example, what is the > > difference > > > > > >> between intelligent and non-intelligent design? How do we test for a > > > > theory > > > > > >> of ID? How do we search for the designer? What steps can we use to > > > > find the > > > > > >> designer? This is an honest question and one that all ID > > proponents must > > > > > >> answer if there is to be a theory of ID. > > > > > > > >The course would be to cover the basics of Intelligent Design. They > > have a > > > > > >textbook entitled, "Of Panda and People". The textbook has 170 pages and > > > > > >no Biblical content. The textbook contains interpretations of classic > > > > > >evidences in harmony with the creation model. As far as I know, God > > is not > > > > > >mentioned as the intelligent designer as far as the course is concerned. > > > > > >Instead, the term "intelligent designer" is used instead of "God". This > > > > > >was done so the book and course could not be called "religion" by the > > > > > >advocates of evolution. The plan did not work. The advocates of evolution > > > > > >do not would children to learn about intelligent design since they are > > > > > >afraid that children would realize that it makes more sense than > > > > > >evolution. The advocates of evolution do not want competition. > > > > > > > So it doesn't bother you that the authors of _Of Pandas and People_ are > > > > > liars? It doesn't bother you that they don't care at all about the First > > > > > Amendment? It doesn't bother you that they lied to a judge in a federal > > > > > trial? > > > > > > > Tell me again why you claim to be a Christian. > > > > > > There is a law. There goal was to comply with the law. > > > > > No, their goal was to get around the law, but they didn't fool > > > anybody. As you said yourself, even children would know that > > > "intelligent design" is religion in disguise. > > > You failed to tell me your opinion about the Roman Empire site that I > > referred you to. > > I have no opinion about the site because I didn't look at it. When I > was in high school, I read the book "The Fall of the Roman Empire" as > part of my grade 11 history course so I am probably more familiar with > the history of the Roman Empire than you. Do you want to actually > test me on the subject? > > Martin Only one question: Do you think that America will decline and fall for many of the same reasons the Roman Empire declined and fell? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182563794.394608.234120@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 9:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182559470.259255.81...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 23, 2:58 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > Public school teachers would teach ID--if it was legal in that state. > > > > > Then they would no longer be teachers but priests and priestesses > > > working for the government. There would no longer be a separation of > > > church and state. The lies of religion are rightfully kept in church > > > where they belong and where people are not required to go if they > > > don't want to.. > > > > There is no Biblical content in that textbook. > > And yet you claimed even children would know who the "intelligent > designer" was. Apparently the judge at Dover was at least as smart as > a child. > > Martin Yes, he figured it out. I believe the children would have also figured it out. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <u7vo73lkhkuc09q0m00adbml2cvffb95hv@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:15 -0700, in alt.atheism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2206071846150001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jfk1f@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2206071827450001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <1182560736.318058.6100@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >> ... > >> > >> >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > >> >> beliefs. > >> >> > >> >> Martin > >> > > >> >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > >> >believe Allah is a false God. > >> > >> Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that > >> the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious > >> beliefs? > > > >I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did > >not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: > > > >Here is a quotation from the Quran: > > > >That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the > >Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it > >was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of > >doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of > >a surety they did not kill him. > > Not enough context there. > > >Summary > >Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that > >Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. > > The Trinity, including the concept of Jesus as God, is an expansion of > the idea of what the God of Abraham is. The fact that Moslems reject the > Christian doctrine that Jesus is God does not mean that they do not > worship the God of Abraham. It is Christians who have redefined the God > of Abraham to include Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Moslems, Jews and Bahai > do not accept the Trinitarian variance that most Christians have > introduced. > > >Related to Allah--It's my opinion that he is a false God. > > Again, you can repeat your opinion as much as you want. It will still be > wrong. > > >If anyone in this newsgroup chooses to believe that Allah and Jehovah are > >the same God--that is up to them > > Because that is what Christians and Moslems teach. John Hagee, a television preacher, does not appear to believe that Jehovah and Allah are the same God based upon what the Bible states about Jehovah compared to what the Quran states about Allah. The end result of that comparison was that Allah and Jehovah are VASTLY different. This is a quotation from his book ("Jerusalem Countdown") "The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted that no man can personally know Allah." Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:56:41 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206071956410001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182563794.394608.234120@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 23, 9:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182559470.259255.81...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > On Jun 23, 2:58 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > > Public school teachers would teach ID--if it was legal in that state. >> > >> > > Then they would no longer be teachers but priests and priestesses >> > > working for the government. There would no longer be a separation of >> > > church and state. The lies of religion are rightfully kept in church >> > > where they belong and where people are not required to go if they >> > > don't want to.. >> > >> > There is no Biblical content in that textbook. >> >> And yet you claimed even children would know who the "intelligent >> designer" was. Apparently the judge at Dover was at least as smart as >> a child. >> >> Martin > >Yes, he figured it out. I believe the children would have also figured it out. >jason > Which is one of many ways that the ID/Creationists were lying in court. The judge invited the prosecutor to prosecute a number of people for their lies in court, but the prosecutor didn't want to bother. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182564704.621820.258750@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 9:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jf...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > <Jason-2206071827450...@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > ><phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > > > >> beliefs. > > > > > >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > > > >believe Allah is a false God. > > > > > Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that > > > the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious > > > beliefs? > > > > I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did > > not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: > > > > Here is a quotation from the Quran: > > > > That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the > > Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it > > was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of > > doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of > > a surety they did not kill him. > > > > Summary > > Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that > > Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. > > So? Jesus never existed. So they are both wrong. > > Martin The Muslims claim that Jesus existed but that he did not die on the cross or rise from the dead. I seem to recall that they call Jesus a prophet. They did not consider him to be the son of God. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182564249.084179.188880@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 23, 3:51 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <ms5o73ttf78o2scnk7qtvk1v2njahsf...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:39:21 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > <Jason-2206071139220...@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >In article <f9un73t8fle3mlf54s3ofrobmm5ahm0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:15:00 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > >> <Jason-2006072215010...@66-52-22-112.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >> >In article <28kj73pr3bpr6c01kt81cl1b3pdae1g...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:10:26 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > > >> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > >> >> <Jason-2006071910260...@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >> >> >In article <igij73lncmssoprskphcef08i3nd0db...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > >> >> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:44:35 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > > >> >> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > >> >> >> <Jason-2006071844360...@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >> >> >> >In article > > > > > ><1182380497.144640.154...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > >> >> >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> On Jun 21, 3:13 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> >> > In article > > > > > > <1182348318.114973.155...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > On 19 Jun., 19:08, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > In article <4677E977.68603...@osu.edu>, Jim Burns > > > > > >> >> >> ><burns...@osu.edu> wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > In [respose to] article > > > > <1182230648.471813.37...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > George Chen <georgech...@yahoo.com> > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > [...] > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > I feel sorry for all of the people that will > > go to hell > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > instead of going to heaven. > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > How do you feel when you realize you are more > > > > compassionate, > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > a BETTER PERSON, than the God you believe in, even as > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > sinful as you are? > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > Jason, a lot of people have told you that > > creationism is > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > bad science, and it is. But, beyond that, you > > should be > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > able to realize, even without a single science course, > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > that biblical literalism is much worse theology than > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > it is science. > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > Jim Burns > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > Jim, > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > I understand your point but disagree with you. God does > > > > > >not want > > > > > >> >> >> >people to > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > go to hell (John 3:16). If people go to hell, it is NOT > > > > > >> >God's fault. > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > Of course it is. He created hell. He can let > > everybody out. > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > Instead, it is the fault of the people that turned > > > > their backs > > > > > >> >> >on God. > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > Would atheists be happy in heaven? I doubt it. > > Heaven is for > > > > > >> >> >people that > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > enjoy worshipping God. I doubt that atheists would enjoy > > > > > >> >> >worshipping God > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > or following his rules. > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > > Atheists do not turn their backs on god. > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> > They don't even believe that God exists which is even > > worse than > > > > > >> >turning > > > > > >> >> >> >> > their backs on God. > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> Are you turing you back on Zeus? > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> Martin > > > > > > > >> >> >> >Yes--and every other false God. > > > > > > > >> >> >> Could you explain to us what standard of evidence you use for > > > > > >> >> >> determining which gods are true and which are false? > > > > > > > >> >> >It's mainly based on faith. Books have been written on this > > subject. > > > > > > > >> >> So you claim that the god you believe in is true but the ones > > you don't > > > > > >> >> believe in are false. Why should anyone be persuaded? > > > > > > > >> >It's a Bible doctrine based on a commandment--"Thou shalt have > > no other > > > > > >> >gods before me." > > > > > > > >> But, according to you, that commandment was given by a different god > > > > > >> than the one you believe in. > > > > > > > >I did not state that. > > > > > > > Do you worship the God of Israel or the Triune God? You are the one who > > > > > insisted, contrary to the doctrines of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and > > > > > Bahai, that they don't all worship the God of Abraham. Since you insist > > > > > on that, you'll have to come up with a better explanation of your > > > > > doctrine than "I say so, so there" which is where you are right now. > > > > > > The Bible is the only evidence that I have. > > > > > Your book is not evidence. > > > > > > The Bible makes it clear that > > > > the God of Abraham is the true God. The Bible contains the word of God. If > > > > people have a different holy book other than the Bible--they are > > > > worshipping a false God. > > > > > Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > > > beliefs. > > > > Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > > believe Allah is a false God. > > I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not > convincing evidence. Thank you. > > Martin It is evidence in some cases. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:11:19 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206072011190001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <u7vo73lkhkuc09q0m00adbml2cvffb95hv@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:15 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2206071846150001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jfk1f@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-2206071827450001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <1182560736.318058.6100@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their >> >> >> beliefs. >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I >> >> >believe Allah is a false God. >> >> >> >> Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that >> >> the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious >> >> beliefs? >> > >> >I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did >> >not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: >> > >> >Here is a quotation from the Quran: >> > >> >That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the >> >Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it >> >was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of >> >doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of >> >a surety they did not kill him. >> >> Not enough context there. >> >> >Summary >> >Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that >> >Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. >> >> The Trinity, including the concept of Jesus as God, is an expansion of >> the idea of what the God of Abraham is. The fact that Moslems reject the >> Christian doctrine that Jesus is God does not mean that they do not >> worship the God of Abraham. It is Christians who have redefined the God >> of Abraham to include Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Moslems, Jews and Bahai >> do not accept the Trinitarian variance that most Christians have >> introduced. >> >> >Related to Allah--It's my opinion that he is a false God. >> >> Again, you can repeat your opinion as much as you want. It will still be >> wrong. >> >> >If anyone in this newsgroup chooses to believe that Allah and Jehovah are >> >the same God--that is up to them >> >> Because that is what Christians and Moslems teach. > >John Hagee, a television preacher, does not appear to believe that Jehovah >and Allah are the same God based upon what the Bible states about Jehovah >compared to what the Quran states about Allah. The end result of that >comparison was that Allah and Jehovah are VASTLY different. > >This is a quotation from his book ("Jerusalem Countdown") > >"The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of >the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew >Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same as the God >of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted >that no man can personally know Allah." How can you quote someone who is so stupid that he complains that an Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He really is not worth your time, but your willingness to quote him makes it even clearer that you have no intellectual standards and no interest in learning about your religion. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:13:43 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206072013430001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182564704.621820.258750@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 23, 9:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jf...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > <Jason-2206071827450...@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> > > >In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > > ><phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > ... >> > >> > > >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their >> > > >> beliefs. >> > >> > > >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I >> > > >believe Allah is a false God. >> > >> > > Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that >> > > the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious >> > > beliefs? >> > >> > I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did >> > not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: >> > >> > Here is a quotation from the Quran: >> > >> > That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the >> > Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it >> > was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of >> > doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of >> > a surety they did not kill him. >> > >> > Summary >> > Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that >> > Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. >> >> So? Jesus never existed. So they are both wrong. >> >> Martin > >The Muslims claim that Jesus existed but that he did not die on the cross >or rise from the dead. I seem to recall that they call Jesus a prophet. >They did not consider him to be the son of God. Neither do the Jews. What's your point? Christians worship a bunch of gods (Father, Son, Spirit, Satan, various angels), but claim there's only one. Jews and Moslems are kind enough to tolerate the Christian claim that they worship the God of Abraham since the Christian version is far different than the Jewish or Islamic one. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182565682.335642.202640@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 10:01 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182562988.188999.148...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 23, 7:28 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <hhjo73978tqo0uuvim7590a8ou2qkj1...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > > <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:17:30 -0700, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > >In article <kkeo73dv42oar8dbei02rgecphkfkav...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > > > ><n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:26:44 -0400, Mike <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >Jason wrote: > > > > > >> >> In article <f5gft7$sa...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > >> >> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >>> Jason wrote: > > > > > >> >>>> A body is evidence. Two legs that are the same size are > > evidence. Her > > > > > >> >>>> medical records (eg X-rays) related to the car accident are > > > > evidence. The > > > > > >> >>>> testimony of the doctor that removed two inches of crushed > > leg bone is > > > > > >> >>>> evidence. > > > > > >> >>> But there's no evidence of this god. That's the step that you're > > > > > >> >>> skipping over. > > > > > > > >> >>> 1: prove that something happened (such as this leg growing.) > > > > > > > >> >>> 2: prove that a god exists. > > > > > > > >> >>> 3: prove that this god is the most likely explanation for #1. > > > > > > > >> >>> You haven't even done step 1 but even if you had, you still haven't > > > > > >> >>> begun on #2. You just want to jump from claiming step 1 is true to > > > > > >> >>> claiming step 3 is true. > > > > > > > >> >> That is a good point. However, the point was that the body was > > evidence > > > > > >> >> and that Cheryl also has evidence. > > > > > > > >> >She does? Where? Did you see any xrays? Did you see any "before and > > > > > >> >after" pictures? Remember, testimony is NOT evidence. > > > > > > > >> <PIGGYBACKING> > > > > > > > >> >> In both cases, the evidence might not > > > > > >> >> be enough to convince a jury-- > > > > > > > >> Then why should it be enough to convince you? > > > > > > > >> >>but it is evidence. > > > > > > > >> Is it? Have you actually seen it? > > > > > > > >No, I believed her testimony. > > > > > > > Yes, you've made that abundantly clear. > > > > > > > >I also know that doctors and hospitals keep > > > > > >copies of medical records for many years. > > > > > > > Yes they do. But unless you've actually seen the records pertaining to > > > > > Prewitt's (alleged) case, you have no proof her story is true. And > > > > > given the tendency you've displayed thus far toward shameless > > > > > dishonesty, if you want to convince us of the truth of Prewitt's > > > > > claims, you're going to have to show us those records. Your word, > > > > > I'm afraid, isn't good enough. > > > > > > > In fact, given your posting history, if you told me grass is green, > > > > > I'd look out the window for confirmation. > > > > > > Several posters have told me that even if I proved to them that both of > > > > legs are now the same size despite having two inches of bone removed from > > > > one leg--they would still not believe that God healed her leg. > > > > > Because the pieces of bone were never removed: that's not something a > > > doctor would do to a young girl's leg. Consider the Hippocratic Oath: > > > > > "I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability > > > and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain > > > from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly > > > medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in > > > like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. > > > With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. > > > I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this > > > to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever > > > houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and > > > will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, > > > further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. > > > Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in > > > connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not > > > to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such > > > should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, > > > may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, > > > respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate > > > this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!" > > > > > Seehttp://www.doctorslounge.com/oath.htm > > > > > A doctor could get charged with malpractice for removing bone from a > > > young girl's leg. After all, a young girl's leg will heal naturally, > > > given time. And this would have been what happened. > > > > > You have no evidence that the doctors did such a thing as you claim. > > > Cheryl Prewitt was involved in a serious car accident. Her leg bone was > > crushed. The doctor removed the crushed section of bone (2 inches) and > > placed the two remaining sections of bone together with pins. > > No, he didn't. Why do you continue to post the same lies over and > over again? Do you think that we are children and that repetatitive > exposure to lies will make us believe them? > > Martin I am merely telling you information that was in her testimony. You can google her name and find summary versions of her testimony. It took me less than 5 minutes to find a summary version of her testimony. Quote
Guest John Baker Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:50:09 +0930, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote: >On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:35:24 +0200, Tokay Pino Gris ><tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > - Refer: <f5gn20$cn9$00$2@news.t-online.com> >>Mike wrote: >>> Tokay Pino Gris wrote: >>>> Jason wrote: >>>>> Can a mathematical model become a theory? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> No. It is a mathematical model. If it works in maths, that does not >>>> mean it has anything to do with the real world. >>> >>> A very good example would be "3 apples minus 5 apples gives -2 apples." >>> Perfectly mathematically correct but I'd LOVE to see someone with "-2 >>> apples." >> >>There is a joke around here along these lines... With a bus and people >>getting on and off... And ending in "How many people have to get on the >>bus for it to be empty?" >> > >Erm, all of them? Actually, for the bus to be empty, none of them would have to get on. <G> Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182564160.524549.173730@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 23, 9:23 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182560140.987141.276...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 23, 3:18 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <bk3o73lml7a9vikfoalkm00u625st6a...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:59:01 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > > <Jason-2206071059010...@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > > >In article <f5gfvc$sa...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > > > ><prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Jason wrote: > > > > > >> > In article <1182476566.139983.309...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Martin > > > > > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> On Jun 22, 1:47 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > >> >>> A body is evidence. Two legs that are the same size are > > evidence. Her > > > > > >> >>> medical records (eg X-rays) related to the car accident are > > evidence. > > > > > >> >> You admitted to never seeing her medical records. You said > > you didn't > > > > > >> >> have to, that you believed her anyway. Don't lie now about having > > > > > >> >> seen X-rays. > > > > > > > >> >>> The > > > > > >> >>> testimony of the doctor that removed two inches of crushed > > leg bone is > > > > > >> >>> evidence. > > > > > >> >> What testimony? Only evil men lie, Jason. > > > > > > > >> >> Martin > > > > > > > >> > I did not state that I had seem her medical records in the > > above post. > > > > > >> > Re-read the above post. > > > > > > > >> You claimed that the x-rays are evidence. They are not if they don't > > > > > >> exist. Have you seen them? > > > > > > > >No--but that does not mean they don't exist. The doctor that removed the > > > > > >two inches of leg bone has the X-rays. I don't know whether or not Cheryl > > > > > >Prewitt has copies of her X-rays. > > > > > > > You seem to be violently opposed to one of the fundamental concepts of > > > > > logic that has been used by science: It is wrong to assume that > > > > > something exists when there is no evidence to support your assumption. > > > > > That applies to the law of parsimony and to the null hypothesis. If you > > > > > refuse to use both of those concepts, you will be unable to think > > > > > critically. > > > > > > Unlike you, I heard Cheryl Prewitt give her detailed testimony. I posted a > > > > summary version of her testimony in this newsgroup. Her name is mentioned > > > > in over 700 websites. You know that hospitals and doctors keep the medical > > > > records of their patients--mainly for legal reasons. > > > > > She would be entitled to request copies. > > > > > You do realize that medical journals exist and that a story like this, > > > if it were true, would be in a medical journal, don't you? You'd > > > expect far more than 700 hits on google in that case. My name gets > > > 1,130,000 hits. Is Phipps really that common? Is Martin? > > > I spelled her name Cheryl Pruitt instead of the proper spelling of Cheryl > > Prewitt and got over 20 hits. Her story might be in medical journals. I > > would not even know how to find out. It would be a waste of time since I > > doubt if anyone in this newsgroup would ever believe anyone was healed by > > God. If you googled "miracle healings" you would find hundreds of cases of > > miracle healings but you don't accept that sort of evidence. > > Not when they've all been refuted as hoaxes, no. > > Martin I disagree. In one case, the man that no longer needs a wheel chair had the name of his doctor that had agreed to verify his story. Do you want me to post it? Quote
Guest John Baker Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:58:14 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >In article <75ro73lv0419941tqo8qkse203jtsc993n@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:38:25 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2206071738260001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <1182558421.950316.128660@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 23, 2:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <f9un73t8fle3mlf54s3ofrobmm5ahm0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:15:00 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> > > <Jason-2006072215010...@66-52-22-112.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> ... >> >> > > >It's a Bible doctrine based on a commandment--"Thou shalt have >no other >> >> > > >gods before me." >> >> > >> >> > > But, according to you, that commandment was given by a different god >> >> > > than the one you believe in. >> >> > >> >> > I did not state that. >> >> >> >> He's claiming that Allah gave the commandments to Moses. >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> >Jehovah gave the commandments to Moses. >> > >> And no one but you claims there is a difference between Jehovah and >> Allah. Everyone agrees that that the difference comes from the languages >> being used, nothing else. Both are names for the God of Abraham. >> >> You claim otherwise, but have no evidence to support your claim. > >John Hagee, a famous television preacher, wrote a book entitled, >"Jerusalem Countdown". I read the book. He appeared to me to believe that >Allah was a false God. What Hagee believed - or more to the point, how it appeared to you - is of no consequence. Religious scholars, Christian and Muslim alike, agree that Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions, and that Allah and Jehovah refer to the same deity. >He did not have any positive things to write >(unless I missed it) about the Quran or Muhammad. So, because he seems to agree with "Jason the Omniscient, He Who is Never Wrong", the opinion of a "famous television preacher" carries more weight than the opinions of respected theologians? Since when has being famous ever made anyone right? > Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <854p7394n19d3tvg0c59i1a2co7f1asm3v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:11:19 -0700, in alt.atheism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2206072011190001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <u7vo73lkhkuc09q0m00adbml2cvffb95hv@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:15 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2206071846150001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jfk1f@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> <Jason-2206071827450001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >In article <1182560736.318058.6100@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ... > >> >> > >> >> >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > >> >> >> beliefs. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Martin > >> >> > > >> >> >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > >> >> >believe Allah is a false God. > >> >> > >> >> Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that > >> >> the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious > >> >> beliefs? > >> > > >> >I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did > >> >not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: > >> > > >> >Here is a quotation from the Quran: > >> > > >> >That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the > >> >Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it > >> >was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of > >> >doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of > >> >a surety they did not kill him. > >> > >> Not enough context there. > >> > >> >Summary > >> >Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that > >> >Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. > >> > >> The Trinity, including the concept of Jesus as God, is an expansion of > >> the idea of what the God of Abraham is. The fact that Moslems reject the > >> Christian doctrine that Jesus is God does not mean that they do not > >> worship the God of Abraham. It is Christians who have redefined the God > >> of Abraham to include Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Moslems, Jews and Bahai > >> do not accept the Trinitarian variance that most Christians have > >> introduced. > >> > >> >Related to Allah--It's my opinion that he is a false God. > >> > >> Again, you can repeat your opinion as much as you want. It will still be > >> wrong. > >> > >> >If anyone in this newsgroup chooses to believe that Allah and Jehovah are > >> >the same God--that is up to them > >> > >> Because that is what Christians and Moslems teach. > > > >John Hagee, a television preacher, does not appear to believe that Jehovah > >and Allah are the same God based upon what the Bible states about Jehovah > >compared to what the Quran states about Allah. The end result of that > >comparison was that Allah and Jehovah are VASTLY different. > > > >This is a quotation from his book ("Jerusalem Countdown") > > > >"The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of > >the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew > >Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same as the God > >of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted > >that no man can personally know Allah." > > How can you quote someone who is so stupid that he complains that an > Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He really is not > worth your time, but your willingness to quote him makes it even clearer > that you have no intellectual standards and no interest in learning > about your religion. He did not state that an Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He clearly stated that "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. If you believe the actual name "Allah" is in the Bible, provide the verse. Quote
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