Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <f5j9h2$nq7$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <1182563716.516862.110290@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 23, 9:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>> In article <1182559237.898964.32...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:51:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>>>>> <Jason-2106071151200...@66-52-22-87.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >>>>>>> In article > > <1182427767.298489.13...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >>>>>>> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 3:56 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>> Remember learning about the Scopes Monkey Trial. The > > Christians were > >>>>>>>>> trying to keep out the teaching of evolution in the public > >>> schools. I do > >>>>>>>>> believe that the advocates of evolution are doing the same > >>> thing those > >>>>>>>>> Christians done--keeping out the competition. They have the > > judges on > >>>>>>>>> their side so they will probably succeed. > >>>>>>>> The Judges of today are in place to prevent such a travesty > > of justice > >>>>>>>> from occuring again: Scopes LOST the right to teach the truth about > >>>>>>>> evolution to his students. Eventually teachers won the right > > to teach > >>>>>>>> the truth: you want to take that right away from them and have them > >>>>>>>> teach creationism instead. > >>>>>>> They can teach evolution and Intellegent Design. > >>>>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? > >>>>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and > > curriculum > >>>>> guide to teach those classes. > >>>> You didn't answer the question, Jason. > >>> I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't know what > >>> sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. > >> Have you even seen this book you are recommending? Do you remember it > >> containing any scientific facts? What were they? > >> > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > No--I don't recall recommending the book to anyone. Someone asked me what > > sort of information would be taught which is why I looked for the title of > > the book in the ICR newsletter. The description indicated the book had "no > > Biblical content." > > And they lied. It talks about a designer (which you have admitted is > another way of referring to God.) That right there is biblical content > (since that's the only source of any information about this god.) > > > Related to another post: > > What sort of creature did the cluster of one celled life forms evolve into? > > If it's a cluster, it's not a " ONE celled life form" (do you honestly > read these things before you post them?) But to answer the question of > "What sort of creature did the one celled life forms evolve into?", the > answer is "all life that you see around you." However, before it evolved into "all life that you see around you." it must have evolved into some sort of creature--true or false? If so, I would like to know if scientists have done any research indicating that the mass of cells evolved into a creature? Of course, I doubt that a mass of cells evolved into any type of creature. It may have evolved into a larger mass of cells or perhaps some of the cells evolved into other types of cells. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182607364.005660.200290@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 23 Jun., 04:53, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182564394.114180.179...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > snip > > > > I have no opinion about the site because I didn't look at it. When I > > > was in high school, I read the book "The Fall of the Roman Empire" as > > > part of my grade 11 history course so I am probably more familiar with > > > the history of the Roman Empire than you. Do you want to actually > > > test me on the subject? > > > > > Martin > > > > Only one question: > > Do you think that America will decline and fall for many of the same > > reasons the Roman Empire declined and fell?- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselsteg= > n - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Well they were both plagued by Christianity. Did you have anything > else in mind? The various other factors that caused the decline--immigration, economics, welfare programs. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182606959.960799.6330@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 22 Jun., 20:58, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <f5gnn1$4j...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > snip > > > > Make up your mind. Do you want ID to be taught or do you want "public > > > school teachers...to not teach our children false information"? Which i= > s it? > > > > Public school teachers would teach ID--if it was legal in that state. > > Christian biology teachers are required to teach evolution whether they > > believe it is true or false information.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > And they are required to teach that the world is spherical. Terrible > isn't it? Teachers should be free to teach the children whatever they > please, right Jason? No--they are restricted and I have no problem with that. For example, they can not teach ID unless it's legal. I want to make it legal for teachers to teach ID Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <f5j9qm$nq7$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <f5hc96$pc8$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> And it has nothing to do with the teacher's beliefs. It has to do with > >> what is supported by the evidence. So again, which is it? Do you want ID > >> taught or do you want them not to teach false information? Answer the > >> question. > > > > I want them to teach evolution and Intelligent Design. I don't consider ID > > to be false information. > > I.e. you want them to teach the truth and the fiction both, right? Why > would you want something that's false to be taught as being true? (and > that question applies no matter WHICH you believe to be true.) I don't consider ID to be fiction. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <1182605310.578897.58570@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 22 Jun., 07:09, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182485614.548401.179...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 22, 8:36 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <4EEei.471$p7....@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:Jason-2106071710590001@66-52-22-97.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > In article <BqBei.160$n9...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Intelligent design should be taught in those states that approve it. > > > > > > > >> He would love to drop the charade and teach that god created it = > all in > > > > > >> six > > > > > >> days, that he made man from the dust of the earth. Talk about ha= > rd to > > > > > >> do:-). There was a global flood, Adam named all of the animals > > and other > > > > > >> nonsensical things. Being taught such garbage will improve the s= > cience > > > > > >> education level in the country :-))))). > > > > > > > > Yes, that is true but would not work since it's illegal to teach > > religion. > > > > > > That's the reason God is not mentioned in their text book or curr= > iculum > > > > > > guide. > > > > > > > Then how do you propose a scientific theory that has a designer but > > have no > > > > > way to identify this designer? > > > > > > Even the children could figure out the name of the designer or they c= > ould > > > > ask their parents for the name of the designer. > > > > > So it is a lie to say that "Intelligent design" is a scientific theory > > > and not just thinly disguised religion, isn't it? As you say, even > > > children could see through this. > > > > > Martin > > > > Probably so--the goal was to comply with the law and still teach the > > basics of creation science.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Wow, you just admitted it is fraud and that you have been lying all > this time. Are you a troll Jason? They were trying to comply with the law. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <DipthotDipthot-B842A2.09290823062007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > In article > <Jason-2106072223020001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > Probably not. Even if we won in one court, the advocates of evolution > > would do some judge shopping and find a liberal judge that would rule in > > their favor. > > Your political underwear is showing. > > You don't care about truth. > > You have avoided EVERYONE's point here that ID/creation "science" is not > science and doesn't belong in a science curriculum. > > You have failed to present a single argument in refutation of that point. > > You haven't even bothered to defend your position that ID/"Creation > science" should be taught; you have merely repeated it. > > Your key defense? Lyrics from a rock song (a song, by the way, that was > about something utterly different). > > You just want your "side" to win. Yes--I would like my side to win. You appear to want your side to win. In this case, your side won. > > At the expense of truth. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <f5j69u$k7k$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Martin wrote: > > On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > >>> beliefs. > >> Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > >> believe Allah is a false God. > > > > I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not > > convincing evidence. Thank you. > > HIS religious scripture (and only the part of that which he agrees with) > is "evidence." All other religious scripture (as well as the parts of > the bible that he doesn't like) is NOT evidence. Got it this time? Geez, > Martin, how many times do we have to explain this to you? Mike, Thanks--you got it. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <f5j6ba$k7k$4@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <1182564249.084179.188880@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>> In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >>> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>>> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > >>>> beliefs. > >>> Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > >>> believe Allah is a false God. > >> I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not > >> convincing evidence. Thank you. > >> > >> Martin > > > > It is evidence in some cases. > > And how do you decide in which cases it is evidence and in which cases > it's not? My religious scripture (and only the part of that I agree with) is "evidence." All other religious scripture (as well as the parts of the bible that I don't like) is NOT evidence. Got it this time? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <f5j616$k7k$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <854p7394n19d3tvg0c59i1a2co7f1asm3v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:11:19 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>> "The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of > >>> the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew > >>> Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same as the God > >>> of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted > >>> that no man can personally know Allah." > >> How can you quote someone who is so stupid that he complains that an > >> Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He really is not > >> worth your time, but your willingness to quote him makes it even clearer > >> that you have no intellectual standards and no interest in learning > >> about your religion. > > > > He did not state that an Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew > > writing. He clearly stated that "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew Old > > Testament or the Greek New Testament. If you believe the actual name > > "Allah" is in the Bible, provide the verse. > > SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH > > That was the point flying at shuttle speeds and altitude over your head. > > You won't find ANY Arabic words in Greek or Hebrew writing. You won't > find something like "Deutschland" buried in a strictly English writing > but you WILL find "Germany" in that same writing. Does that mean that > "Germany" and "Deutschland" are two different countries or that one > exists and the other does not? Unless your answer to both is "no" then > you are a total idiot. > > Likewise, "Yahweh/Jehovah" (Hebrew), "Allah" (Arabic), "Deus" (Latin), > "God" (English), "Theos" (Greek), "Gott" (Germany), "Dio" (Italian), > etc. all refer to the same god but simply in different languages but you > won't find "Dio" or "Gott" in English writings or "God" in Hebrew or > Greek writings. Yes, I understand all of that. One point that keeps flying over your head is that some experts believe that the name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with the worship of the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. I googled "moon god" and found lots of sites. I posted an article that I obtained from one of those sites. Of course, some of the sites indicated that other experts agree with your understanding of this subject. I suggest that you google "moon god" if you do not believe me. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <vs2dnZ6aP9D9weDbnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > > I consider Christianity to be a true religion and conder Jehovah to be the > > only God. I consider Allah to be a false God. > (snip) > > What process, in your life, lead you to these conclusions? My parents were Christians which played a role. While in college, I took a course related to the World Religions. None of those world religions appealed to me. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <cuidnRdMP4Jw_ODbnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > (snip) > > > One radio preacher stated that one of his atheist > > professors told his class that Christians loved their little black books > > and had no love for intellectual knowledge. > (snip) > > Radio preachers have to make up something to say, to > persuade the gullible. Sounds like you are their target > audience. Some people in this newsgroup have told me things similar to the above information. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <ZJqdnfC2CLYJ_-DbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > > > You would have to live in southern California or the south > > part of Florida to truly understand the problem. > > Which is simply not true. > > > There is one Hispanic Organization that has a goal of making > > California a part of Mexico. > > That gets a big SO WHAT! No one cares what one small bunch of > kooks wants. Bringing up such things has no place in an > intelligent conversation. > > > Once three quarters of the California population are > > Mexicans--it could happen. > > No, it could not. It has already happened once in the history of America--the civil war. > > > I support LEGAL immigration but do not support ILLEGAL > > immigration. > > That's right. Let only white people immigrate. Keep the brown > ones out. The yellow ones are alright only because they usually > have lots of money. As far as it is legal immigration--I am not concerned with the races. > > Do you fully understand why these people are coming here from > Mexico and Central America? Your idea that they want to turn > California into Mexico shows that you do not. Yes--billions of people would love to live in America for those same reasons. Should we allow billions of people from throughout the world to live in America. They recently impounded a huge ship containing thousands of Chinese people that were trying to dock at a California port. If people from China want to live in America, they should do it legally. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:31:35 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206072031350001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182564160.524549.173730@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 23, 9:23 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182560140.987141.276...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > On Jun 23, 3:18 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <bk3o73lml7a9vikfoalkm00u625st6a...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:59:01 -0700, in alt.atheism >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > > > <Jason-2206071059010...@66-52-22-34.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> > > > > >In article <f5gfvc$sa...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> > > > > ><prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> > >> > > > > >> Jason wrote: >> > > > > >> > In article ><1182476566.139983.309...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, >> > > > Martin >> > > > > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > > > > >> >> On Jun 22, 1:47 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > > > >> >>> A body is evidence. Two legs that are the same size are >> > evidence. Her >> > > > > >> >>> medical records (eg X-rays) related to the car accident are >> > evidence. >> > > > > >> >> You admitted to never seeing her medical records. You said >> > you didn't >> > > > > >> >> have to, that you believed her anyway. Don't lie now >about having >> > > > > >> >> seen X-rays. >> > >> > > > > >> >>> The >> > > > > >> >>> testimony of the doctor that removed two inches of crushed >> > leg bone is >> > > > > >> >>> evidence. >> > > > > >> >> What testimony? Only evil men lie, Jason. >> > >> > > > > >> >> Martin >> > >> > > > > >> > I did not state that I had seem her medical records in the >> > above post. >> > > > > >> > Re-read the above post. >> > >> > > > > >> You claimed that the x-rays are evidence. They are not if >they don't >> > > > > >> exist. Have you seen them? >> > >> > > > > >No--but that does not mean they don't exist. The doctor that >removed the >> > > > > >two inches of leg bone has the X-rays. I don't know whether or >not Cheryl >> > > > > >Prewitt has copies of her X-rays. >> > >> > > > > You seem to be violently opposed to one of the fundamental concepts of >> > > > > logic that has been used by science: It is wrong to assume that >> > > > > something exists when there is no evidence to support your assumption. >> > > > > That applies to the law of parsimony and to the null hypothesis. >If you >> > > > > refuse to use both of those concepts, you will be unable to think >> > > > > critically. >> > >> > > > Unlike you, I heard Cheryl Prewitt give her detailed testimony. I >posted a >> > > > summary version of her testimony in this newsgroup. Her name is >mentioned >> > > > in over 700 websites. You know that hospitals and doctors keep the >medical >> > > > records of their patients--mainly for legal reasons. >> > >> > > She would be entitled to request copies. >> > >> > > You do realize that medical journals exist and that a story like this, >> > > if it were true, would be in a medical journal, don't you? You'd >> > > expect far more than 700 hits on google in that case. My name gets >> > > 1,130,000 hits. Is Phipps really that common? Is Martin? >> >> > I spelled her name Cheryl Pruitt instead of the proper spelling of Cheryl >> > Prewitt and got over 20 hits. Her story might be in medical journals. I >> > would not even know how to find out. It would be a waste of time since I >> > doubt if anyone in this newsgroup would ever believe anyone was healed by >> > God. If you googled "miracle healings" you would find hundreds of cases of >> > miracle healings but you don't accept that sort of evidence. >> >> Not when they've all been refuted as hoaxes, no. >> >> Martin > >I disagree. In one case, the man that no longer needs a wheel chair had >the name of his doctor that had agreed to verify his story. Do you want me >to post it? > I want you to post references to the documentation. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:37:59 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206072037590001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <854p7394n19d3tvg0c59i1a2co7f1asm3v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:11:19 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2206072011190001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <u7vo73lkhkuc09q0m00adbml2cvffb95hv@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:15 -0700, in alt.atheism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-2206071846150001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jfk1f@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> >> <Jason-2206071827450001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >> >In article <1182560736.318058.6100@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >Martin >> >> >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their >> >> >> >> beliefs. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I >> >> >> >believe Allah is a false God. >> >> >> >> >> >> Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that >> >> >> the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious >> >> >> beliefs? >> >> > >> >> >I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did >> >> >not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: >> >> > >> >> >Here is a quotation from the Quran: >> >> > >> >> >That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the >> >> >Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it >> >> >was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of >> >> >doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of >> >> >a surety they did not kill him. >> >> >> >> Not enough context there. >> >> >> >> >Summary >> >> >Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that >> >> >Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. >> >> >> >> The Trinity, including the concept of Jesus as God, is an expansion of >> >> the idea of what the God of Abraham is. The fact that Moslems reject the >> >> Christian doctrine that Jesus is God does not mean that they do not >> >> worship the God of Abraham. It is Christians who have redefined the God >> >> of Abraham to include Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Moslems, Jews and Bahai >> >> do not accept the Trinitarian variance that most Christians have >> >> introduced. >> >> >> >> >Related to Allah--It's my opinion that he is a false God. >> >> >> >> Again, you can repeat your opinion as much as you want. It will still be >> >> wrong. >> >> >> >> >If anyone in this newsgroup chooses to believe that Allah and Jehovah are >> >> >the same God--that is up to them >> >> >> >> Because that is what Christians and Moslems teach. >> > >> >John Hagee, a television preacher, does not appear to believe that Jehovah >> >and Allah are the same God based upon what the Bible states about Jehovah >> >compared to what the Quran states about Allah. The end result of that >> >comparison was that Allah and Jehovah are VASTLY different. >> > >> >This is a quotation from his book ("Jerusalem Countdown") >> > >> >"The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of >> >the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew >> >Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same as the God >> >of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted >> >that no man can personally know Allah." >> >> How can you quote someone who is so stupid that he complains that an >> Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He really is not >> worth your time, but your willingness to quote him makes it even clearer >> that you have no intellectual standards and no interest in learning >> about your religion. > >He did not state that an Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew >writing. He clearly stated that "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew Old >Testament or the Greek New Testament. If you believe the actual name >"Allah" is in the Bible, provide the verse. > You are amazingly stupid. Allah is an Arabic word. It means God or god. Of course it wouldn't be found in a Greek or Hebrew text. Allah is not a name any more than God is a name. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:44:21 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206072044210001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <fu4p73hn62j3lbrc0l4moknstqosduf1me@4ax.com>, John Baker ><nunya@bizniz.net> wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:58:14 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >In article <75ro73lv0419941tqo8qkse203jtsc993n@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:38:25 -0700, in alt.atheism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-2206071738260001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <1182558421.950316.128660@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> >Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 23, 2:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article <f9un73t8fle3mlf54s3ofrobmm5ahm0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:15:00 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> >> > > <Jason-2006072215010...@66-52-22-112.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> ... >> >> >> > > >It's a Bible doctrine based on a commandment--"Thou shalt have >> >no other >> >> >> > > >gods before me." >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > But, according to you, that commandment was given by a different god >> >> >> > > than the one you believe in. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I did not state that. >> >> >> >> >> >> He's claiming that Allah gave the commandments to Moses. >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> >Jehovah gave the commandments to Moses. >> >> > >> >> And no one but you claims there is a difference between Jehovah and >> >> Allah. Everyone agrees that that the difference comes from the languages >> >> being used, nothing else. Both are names for the God of Abraham. >> >> >> >> You claim otherwise, but have no evidence to support your claim. >> > >> >John Hagee, a famous television preacher, wrote a book entitled, >> >"Jerusalem Countdown". I read the book. He appeared to me to believe that >> >Allah was a false God. >> >> What Hagee believed - or more to the point, how it appeared to you >> - is of no consequence. Religious scholars, Christian and Muslim >> alike, agree that Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions, >> and that Allah and Jehovah refer to the same deity. >> >> >He did not have any positive things to write >> >(unless I missed it) about the Quran or Muhammad. >> >> So, because he seems to agree with "Jason the Omniscient, He Who is >> Never Wrong", the opinion of a "famous television preacher" carries >> more weight than the opinions of respected theologians? >> >> Since when has being famous ever made anyone right? >> >> >> > > >Was there a moon god in pre-Islamic Arabia? Was the name of that moon god Allah? > Who cares? We are told by Islam that the God of Islam is the God of Abraham. Your quibbles are nothing but dishonest attempts to avoid that fact that you jumped to a wrong conclusion but are too stiff-necked to ever admit that you made a mistake. Once again, you compound your mistake by lying about it. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:06:45 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2206072206450001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182572553.938822.32570@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 23, 10:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182564394.114180.179...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > > On Jun 23, 9:07 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <1182559318.400394.79...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > > > On Jun 23, 2:55 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > > In article <sbtn73187me30fr561n1btfpo0u3sho...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> > > > > > > So it doesn't bother you that the authors of _Of Pandas and >> > People_ are >> > > > > > > liars? It doesn't bother you that they don't care at all about >> > the First >> > > > > > > Amendment? It doesn't bother you that they lied to a judge in a >> > federal >> > > > > > > trial? >> > >> > > > > > > Tell me again why you claim to be a Christian. >> > >> > > > > > There is a law. There goal was to comply with the law. >> > >> > > > > No, their goal was to get around the law, but they didn't fool >> > > > > anybody. As you said yourself, even children would know that >> > > > > "intelligent design" is religion in disguise. >> > >> > > > You failed to tell me your opinion about the Roman Empire site that I >> > > > referred you to. >> > >> > > I have no opinion about the site because I didn't look at it. When I >> > > was in high school, I read the book "The Rise and Fall of the Roman >> > > Empire" as part of my grade 11 history course so I am probably more >> > > familiar with the history of the Roman Empire than you. Do you want to >> > > actually test me on the subject? >> > >> > Only one question: >> > Do you think that America will decline and fall for many of the same >> > reasons the Roman Empire declined and fell? >> >> As I recall, the fall of the Roman Empire was for economic reasons: >> the Roman Empire had expanded to the point where it had an enormous >> border that had to be regularly patrolled in order to keep out >> barbarian invaders. The budget was spread so thin that they couldn't >> afford armour for their soldiers and thus their soldiers weren't much >> use against their enemies. Moral was also low in the military: the >> Empire had over expanded and the once mighty military had now become a >> defensive force. >> >> With the army patrolling the border states, the Emperor had to worry >> about unrest at home. Rather than face an uprising from the >> unemployed masses of the empire, the Empire introduced welfare to >> appease the masses: whereas before the mighty empire was bringing in >> money from taxation, it was now giving out money. It became a welfare >> state. This further drained the empire's coffers and restricted the >> amount of money that could be spent on the military. >> >> America IS in a state of decline, as can be measured by the declining >> dollar: this is a direct measure of the perceived value of the >> American economy. The decline can easily be associated with the war >> in Iraq, now in its fifth year. Just as the Roman Empire had >> overexpanded, the United States now has forces in Afganistan and Iraq, >> in addition to its NATO commitment and its bases in South Korea. The >> United States has, like the Roman Empire, overexpanded and the economy >> is suffering as a result. >> >> "Those who fail to learn the lessons that history teaches, are doomed >> to repeat them" - George Santayana >> >> I have a question for you: what does the fall of the Roman Empire have >> to do with the book _Pandas and People_? >> >> Martin > >Martin, >Thanks for your post. My question is not related to the Pandas and People >book. I believe that if Hillary elected and Democrats are in control of >both houses of Congress--it will cause the slow decline and fall of >America. That beats the fast decline and fall that we have been suffering under Bush and the Republicans who ran Congress recently. They're fake conservatives. >A national healthcare program will cost billions of dollars--each >year. All of the huge companies and state agencies that provide health >care will no longer have to pay for health care for their employees. The >Fed'l government will provide free heath care for everyone. Social >Security and Medicare are already costing billions of dollars each year. Total health care costs will go down because our current system is extremely inefficient. Right now, the governments in the United States spend roughly as much as governments in other developed countries for health care, yet those countries cover everyone and we, alone, do not. Roughly 15% of Americans have no coverage. >The rich people already know how to avoid paying high taxes by keeping >their money in banks in South America. You mentioned the decline of the >value of a dollar--it will keep going down. Visit a Walmart--most of those >products were NOT made in America--they are made in China. Many factories >have closed down. The decline and fall of America started about 10 years >ago and will fall like a lead balloon if Hillary Clinton is elected and >Democates control both houses of Congress. The US was running a federal surplus before Bush took over and cut taxes for the rich and started wars that he refused to pay for. >In addition, we are being invaded by a foreign country (Mexico). No, we aren't being invaded. >Didn't the Roman Empire also have problems with illegal immigrants. Immigrants are not a problem. >Have you heard about the Social Security >Disability Program. It was designed to take care of people that were so >disabled that they were not able to work. The program has now been >expanded to take care of anyone that does not want to work. Alcoholics, >Addicts, and people that suffer from depression can now get social >security disability checks. So you think it's okay to pick on people with mental health problems because you cannot see their disease? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <sqsq73lurjj78kn9mkac9h5qlctl5jb17t@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:37:59 -0700, in alt.atheism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2206072037590001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <854p7394n19d3tvg0c59i1a2co7f1asm3v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:11:19 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2206072011190001@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <u7vo73lkhkuc09q0m00adbml2cvffb95hv@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:15 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> <Jason-2206071846150001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >In article <1pto739o23u86h6hi2okq3kje2oi5jfk1f@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:27:44 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> >> <Jason-2206071827450001@66-52-22-3.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >> >In article <1182560736.318058.6100@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >Martin > >> >> >> ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> ... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their > >> >> >> >> beliefs. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Martin > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I > >> >> >> >believe Allah is a false God. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Allah is the Arabic name for the God of Abraham. You are telling us that > >> >> >> the God of Abraham is a false god. Does that square with your religious > >> >> >> beliefs? > >> >> > > >> >> >I'll give one example from the Quran. The Muslims believe that Jesus did > >> >> >not die on the cross and that he did not rise from the dead: > >> >> > > >> >> >Here is a quotation from the Quran: > >> >> > > >> >> >That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the > >> >> >Messenger of Allah--but they did not kill him, nor crucified him, but it > >> >> >was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of > >> >> >doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of > >> >> >a surety they did not kill him. > >> >> > >> >> Not enough context there. > >> >> > >> >> >Summary > >> >> >Islam says that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Bible states that > >> >> >Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. > >> >> > >> >> The Trinity, including the concept of Jesus as God, is an expansion of > >> >> the idea of what the God of Abraham is. The fact that Moslems reject the > >> >> Christian doctrine that Jesus is God does not mean that they do not > >> >> worship the God of Abraham. It is Christians who have redefined the God > >> >> of Abraham to include Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Moslems, Jews and Bahai > >> >> do not accept the Trinitarian variance that most Christians have > >> >> introduced. > >> >> > >> >> >Related to Allah--It's my opinion that he is a false God. > >> >> > >> >> Again, you can repeat your opinion as much as you want. It will still be > >> >> wrong. > >> >> > >> >> >If anyone in this newsgroup chooses to believe that Allah and Jehovah are > >> >> >the same God--that is up to them > >> >> > >> >> Because that is what Christians and Moslems teach. > >> > > >> >John Hagee, a television preacher, does not appear to believe that Jehovah > >> >and Allah are the same God based upon what the Bible states about Jehovah > >> >compared to what the Quran states about Allah. The end result of that > >> >comparison was that Allah and Jehovah are VASTLY different. > >> > > >> >This is a quotation from his book ("Jerusalem Countdown") > >> > > >> >"The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of > >> >the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew > >> >Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same as the God > >> >of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted > >> >that no man can personally know Allah." > >> > >> How can you quote someone who is so stupid that he complains that an > >> Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He really is not > >> worth your time, but your willingness to quote him makes it even clearer > >> that you have no intellectual standards and no interest in learning > >> about your religion. > > > >He did not state that an Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew > >writing. He clearly stated that "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew Old > >Testament or the Greek New Testament. If you believe the actual name > >"Allah" is in the Bible, provide the verse. > > > You are amazingly stupid. > > Allah is an Arabic word. It means God or god. Of course it wouldn't be > found in a Greek or Hebrew text. Allah is not a name any more than God > is a name. > Hello, > I googled "moon god" and found lots of sites. Some of the sites indicated > that the word "Allah" was not related to the moon God. However, other > sites indicated that Allah was related to the moon god: I obtained the > following from one of the sites: > > Hubal and Allah the Moon God? > > Islam: Truth or Myth? start page > > Introduction to basic facts of history: > 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC. 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. 3. This Hubal was a moon god. 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world: > > About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr > bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol > called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of > the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar > (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim) > > 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper > name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god". > Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan > god as "al-ilah". > 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began > promoting his new religion in 610 AD. > 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah". > 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name > "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah". > 9. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the > Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms. > 10. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is > derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. > 11. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:21:26 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2306071121270001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <f5j69u$k7k$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Martin wrote: >> > On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their >> >>> beliefs. >> >> Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I >> >> believe Allah is a false God. >> > >> > I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not >> > convincing evidence. Thank you. >> >> HIS religious scripture (and only the part of that which he agrees with) >> is "evidence." All other religious scripture (as well as the parts of >> the bible that he doesn't like) is NOT evidence. Got it this time? Geez, >> Martin, how many times do we have to explain this to you? > >Mike, >Thanks--you got it. >Jason > Thanks for admitting that you are just being arbitrary and self-centered. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 In article <dluq73l0ie6fkskinqjid3debdr7rjmgt5@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:06:45 -0700, in alt.atheism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2206072206450001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <1182572553.938822.32570@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 23, 10:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1182564394.114180.179...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > On Jun 23, 9:07 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > In article <1182559318.400394.79...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> > > >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > > > On Jun 23, 2:55 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > > In article <sbtn73187me30fr561n1btfpo0u3sho...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> > >> > > > > > > So it doesn't bother you that the authors of _Of Pandas and > >> > People_ are > >> > > > > > > liars? It doesn't bother you that they don't care at all about > >> > the First > >> > > > > > > Amendment? It doesn't bother you that they lied to a judge in a > >> > federal > >> > > > > > > trial? > >> > > >> > > > > > > Tell me again why you claim to be a Christian. > >> > > >> > > > > > There is a law. There goal was to comply with the law. > >> > > >> > > > > No, their goal was to get around the law, but they didn't fool > >> > > > > anybody. As you said yourself, even children would know that > >> > > > > "intelligent design" is religion in disguise. > >> > > >> > > > You failed to tell me your opinion about the Roman Empire site that I > >> > > > referred you to. > >> > > >> > > I have no opinion about the site because I didn't look at it. When I > >> > > was in high school, I read the book "The Rise and Fall of the Roman > >> > > Empire" as part of my grade 11 history course so I am probably more > >> > > familiar with the history of the Roman Empire than you. Do you want to > >> > > actually test me on the subject? > >> > > >> > Only one question: > >> > Do you think that America will decline and fall for many of the same > >> > reasons the Roman Empire declined and fell? > >> > >> As I recall, the fall of the Roman Empire was for economic reasons: > >> the Roman Empire had expanded to the point where it had an enormous > >> border that had to be regularly patrolled in order to keep out > >> barbarian invaders. The budget was spread so thin that they couldn't > >> afford armour for their soldiers and thus their soldiers weren't much > >> use against their enemies. Moral was also low in the military: the > >> Empire had over expanded and the once mighty military had now become a > >> defensive force. > >> > >> With the army patrolling the border states, the Emperor had to worry > >> about unrest at home. Rather than face an uprising from the > >> unemployed masses of the empire, the Empire introduced welfare to > >> appease the masses: whereas before the mighty empire was bringing in > >> money from taxation, it was now giving out money. It became a welfare > >> state. This further drained the empire's coffers and restricted the > >> amount of money that could be spent on the military. > >> > >> America IS in a state of decline, as can be measured by the declining > >> dollar: this is a direct measure of the perceived value of the > >> American economy. The decline can easily be associated with the war > >> in Iraq, now in its fifth year. Just as the Roman Empire had > >> overexpanded, the United States now has forces in Afganistan and Iraq, > >> in addition to its NATO commitment and its bases in South Korea. The > >> United States has, like the Roman Empire, overexpanded and the economy > >> is suffering as a result. > >> > >> "Those who fail to learn the lessons that history teaches, are doomed > >> to repeat them" - George Santayana > >> > >> I have a question for you: what does the fall of the Roman Empire have > >> to do with the book _Pandas and People_? > >> > >> Martin > > > >Martin, > >Thanks for your post. My question is not related to the Pandas and People > >book. I believe that if Hillary elected and Democrats are in control of > >both houses of Congress--it will cause the slow decline and fall of > >America. > > That beats the fast decline and fall that we have been suffering under > Bush and the Republicans who ran Congress recently. They're fake > conservatives. > > >A national healthcare program will cost billions of dollars--each > >year. All of the huge companies and state agencies that provide health > >care will no longer have to pay for health care for their employees. The > >Fed'l government will provide free heath care for everyone. Social > >Security and Medicare are already costing billions of dollars each year. > > Total health care costs will go down because our current system is > extremely inefficient. Right now, the governments in the United States > spend roughly as much as governments in other developed countries for > health care, yet those countries cover everyone and we, alone, do not. > Roughly 15% of Americans have no coverage. > > >The rich people already know how to avoid paying high taxes by keeping > >their money in banks in South America. You mentioned the decline of the > >value of a dollar--it will keep going down. Visit a Walmart--most of those > >products were NOT made in America--they are made in China. Many factories > >have closed down. The decline and fall of America started about 10 years > >ago and will fall like a lead balloon if Hillary Clinton is elected and > >Democates control both houses of Congress. > > The US was running a federal surplus before Bush took over and cut taxes > for the rich and started wars that he refused to pay for. > > >In addition, we are being invaded by a foreign country (Mexico). > > No, we aren't being invaded. > > >Didn't the Roman Empire also have problems with illegal immigrants. > > Immigrants are not a problem. > > >Have you heard about the Social Security > >Disability Program. It was designed to take care of people that were so > >disabled that they were not able to work. The program has now been > >expanded to take care of anyone that does not want to work. Alcoholics, > >Addicts, and people that suffer from depression can now get social > >security disability checks. > > So you think it's okay to pick on people with mental health problems > because you cannot see their disease? I have no problem with people with severe mental health problems getting social security disability payments. However, people that are too lazy to work know how to download the symptoms of depression. Various lawyers are able to get those sorts of people disability checks and the lawyers are paid for their services by the federal government. If you choose to believe that all of the people that receive disability checks truly are disabled and are not able to work--that is your choice. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:39:37 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2306071139380001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <vs2dnZ6aP9D9weDbnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish ><jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> >> > I consider Christianity to be a true religion and conder Jehovah to be the >> > only God. I consider Allah to be a false God. >> (snip) >> >> What process, in your life, lead you to these conclusions? > >My parents were Christians which played a role. While in college, I took a >course related to the World Religions. None of those world religions >appealed to me. > Apparently you learned nothing in that class, either. You aren't the one who gets to decide that Allah is a false god unless you are willing to agree that Jehovah, a name that refers to the same god, is also a false god. Is Jehovah a false god? If not, then Allah is not, either. If A equals B then you don't get to say that A is true but B is false. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:50:27 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2306071150280001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <ZJqdnfC2CLYJ_-DbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." ><spam@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > >> > You would have to live in southern California or the south >> > part of Florida to truly understand the problem. >> >> Which is simply not true. >> >> > There is one Hispanic Organization that has a goal of making >> > California a part of Mexico. >> >> That gets a big SO WHAT! No one cares what one small bunch of >> kooks wants. Bringing up such things has no place in an >> intelligent conversation. >> >> > Once three quarters of the California population are >> > Mexicans--it could happen. >> >> No, it could not. > >It has already happened once in the history of America--the civil war. No, the civil war didn't have anything to do with illegal immigration, though the United States did steal half of Mexico from Mexico -- first with illegal Yankee immigrants in Texas broke away from Mexico and then the Southwest that was taken after the war. >> > I support LEGAL immigration but do not support ILLEGAL >> > immigration. >> >> That's right. Let only white people immigrate. Keep the brown >> ones out. The yellow ones are alright only because they usually >> have lots of money. > >As far as it is legal immigration--I am not concerned with the races. Would you support legal immigration for 3 million people a year? That appears to be the number of people that the United States can absorb easily. >> Do you fully understand why these people are coming here from >> Mexico and Central America? Your idea that they want to turn >> California into Mexico shows that you do not. > >Yes--billions of people would love to live in America for those same reasons. >Should we allow billions of people from throughout the world to live in >America. They recently impounded a huge ship containing thousands of >Chinese people that were trying to dock at a California port. If people >from China want to live in America, they should do it legally. Do you want to punish employers who hire people who don't have work permits for this country? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:08:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2306071108190001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <f5j9aa$nq7$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <1182559237.898964.32770@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? >> >>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and curriculum >> >>> guide to teach those classes. >> >> You didn't answer the question, Jason. >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > Martin, >> > I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't know what >> > sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. >> >> Again, you didn't answer the question, Jason. It was "what scientific >> facts can they teach about ID?" and NOT "what scientific facts are >> contained in a specific book?" >> >> If ID is scientific, then there should be some specific scientific facts >> that can be taught about it. What are some of them? > >Regardless, I don't know what scientific facts ID has. No one does. There are none. >Try visiting their website. It won't help. >You never did answer my question. You mentioned all of the research that >has been done on that cluster of cells. What sort of creature evolved from >that cluster of cells? You've demonstrated that you don't care. If you did, you would learn something about biology. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:13:12 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2306071113120001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <f5j9h2$nq7$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: .... >> > Related to another post: >> > What sort of creature did the cluster of one celled life forms evolve into? >> >> If it's a cluster, it's not a " ONE celled life form" (do you honestly >> read these things before you post them?) But to answer the question of >> "What sort of creature did the one celled life forms evolve into?", the >> answer is "all life that you see around you." > >However, before it evolved into "all life that you see around you." it >must have evolved into some sort of creature--true or false? True. >If so, I would like to know if scientists have done any research >indicating that the mass of cells evolved into a creature? The mass of cells was a creature. >Of course, I doubt that a mass of cells evolved into any type of creature. Your doubts show your lack of knowledge, nothing else. >It may have evolved into a larger mass of cells or perhaps some of the >cells evolved into other types of cells. Why don't you get an education? The first unicellular organisms existed for a long time, dividing and dying, just as the unicellular organisms do today. Then, there were two-celled organisms, just as there are today. The organisms of billions of years ago are not the same as the ones that exist today, they have evolved. After the two celled, there were cell colonies, which also still exist today. Then some of the cell colonies developed into organisms that were still cell colonies but had differentiated cells. That is what all the plants and animals are today. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:16:11 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2306071116110001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182606959.960799.6330@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 22 Jun., 20:58, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <f5gnn1$4j...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> snip >> >> > > Make up your mind. Do you want ID to be taught or do you want "public >> > > school teachers...to not teach our children false information"? Which i= >> s it? >> > >> > Public school teachers would teach ID--if it was legal in that state. >> > Christian biology teachers are required to teach evolution whether they >> > believe it is true or false information.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> And they are required to teach that the world is spherical. Terrible >> isn't it? Teachers should be free to teach the children whatever they >> please, right Jason? > >No--they are restricted and I have no problem with that. For example, they >can not teach ID unless it's legal. I want to make it legal for teachers >to teach ID > No rational person would teach something in science class that has no evidence to support it. ID has no evidence to support it, therefore no rational person would want to teach ID. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:16:52 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2306071116530001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <f5j9qm$nq7$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <f5hc96$pc8$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> >> And it has nothing to do with the teacher's beliefs. It has to do with >> >> what is supported by the evidence. So again, which is it? Do you want ID >> >> taught or do you want them not to teach false information? Answer the >> >> question. >> > >> > I want them to teach evolution and Intelligent Design. I don't consider ID >> > to be false information. >> >> I.e. you want them to teach the truth and the fiction both, right? Why >> would you want something that's false to be taught as being true? (and >> that question applies no matter WHICH you believe to be true.) > >I don't consider ID to be fiction. > That does not change the fact that ID is fiction. You really need to learn to have opinions that are related to reality. Quote
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