Evolution is Just Junk Science

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 19:44, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <467D3EF4.76504...@osu.edu>, Jim Burns <burns...@osu.edu> wrote:

> > Jason:

> > When you realize how wrong you are about this (relatively

> > minor) point, maybe you will realize you need to

> > re-examine how you decide which sources of information

> > are trustworthy.

>

> > How did you decide that Muslims worship a different god

> > than you do? You read a book by an author you approve of.

> > (Was there more? Maybe evidence inside that book?

> > You didn't say so, so I assume it wasn't important

> > to you.)

>

> > How did you decide that evolution, including common descent

> > and natural selection, is false and anti-Christian? There

> > were various books written by authors you approve of.

> > (In this case, apparently, you don't even have to /read/

> > the books, just know that they were written and how many

> > pages they have.)

>

> Actually, I support natural selection but don't accept common descent

 

Non-responsive - of course.

 

and

> abiogenesis.

 

You don't blieve god created life? I was sure you did.

 

 

I did find out from John Hagee (a famous television preacher)

> that his book indicates that the name Allah came from an Arabic word that

> had to do with worship of the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. I googled

> "moon god" and found many sites related to that subject. Some of the sites

> indicated that the name Allah is derived from the name of a famous moon

> God and found other sites indicating that the name Allah was NOT derived

> from the name of a moon God. I posted information from one of those sites

> and I suggest that you read it. I don't consider natural selection to be

> false and anti-Christian. As you know, natural selection is the most

> important aspect of evolution theory.

 

Along with common descent, both of which are supported by the

evidence..

>My argument is in relation to those

> advocates of evolution that believe life evolved from non-life and that

> God was not involved

 

 

In which case your argument is not with the theory of evolution.

>

>

>

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 19:45, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <1182604811.301335.44...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,

>

>

>

>

>

> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > On 22 Jun., 06:30, Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > On Jun 22, 10:30 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

snip

> > > And Christians may eventually get a clue and accept reality.

>

> > > Martin

>

> > Many have. There is always hope.

>

> And atheists have become Christians.- Skjul tekst i anf

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 19:56, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <1182605148.022550.54...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,

>

>

>

>

>

> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > On 22 Jun., 07:07, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > In article <1182485384.914431.290...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>

> > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > On Jun 22, 8:10 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > > > In article <BqBei.160$n9...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph"

> > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> > > > > > He would love to drop the charade and teach that god created it all=

> > in six

> > > > > > days, that he made man from the dust of the earth. Talk about hard =

> > to

> > > > > > do:-). There was a global flood, Adam named all of the animals and =

> > other

> > > > > > nonsensical things. Being taught such garbage will improve the scie=

> > nce

> > > > > > education level in the country :-))))).

>

> > > > > Yes, that is true but would not work since it's illegal to teach reli=

> > gion.

>

> > > > It is legal to teach ABOUT religion but illegal (in the United States)

> > > > to suggest that any religion is the one true religion in a government

> > > > run school.

>

> > > > Martin

>

> > > Martin,

> > > Many teachers don't want to lose their jobs so they don't discuss religio=

> > n=2E

> > > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -

>

> > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -

>

> > They have, in fact, classes about religion in state universities in

> > the US, " The Sociolgy of Religion" at the University of Texas for

> > example. Of course that takes place in the real world, which you

> > avoid.

>

> I attended two different state universities. I only encountered problems

> with one professor. Most professors treated all students the same. I have

> heard various stories over the years from Christians that had problems

> with atheist professors. One radio preacher stated that one of his atheist

> professors told his class that Christians loved their little black books

> and had no love for intellectual knowledge. Of course, it is possible for

> Christians to attend colleges and gain intellectual knowledge. My doctor

> is a Christian. I know the names of several hundred Christians that have

> Ph.D degrees.

> Jason- Skjul tekst i anf

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 20:09, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > And atheists have become Christians.

>

> Perhaps atheists who have never exposed to religion might be

> persuaded, since they had not previously had no reason to

> think the subject, might have the meme successfully

> implanted without having their guard up. But once someone

> has logically arrived at the viewpoint that religious belief

> is just superstition, they are pretty immune to the infection.

>

> The large reservoirs of people who have not heard of your

> religion and are susceptible to your religious meme

> infection is getting smaller all the time. There is no

> point in raising armies of missionaries, any longer.

> Essentially the only remaining pool of such susceptible

> people is the babies of the infected. But the number of

> people who are realizing that religion is just superstition

> is very rapidly growing, worldwide.

>

> Keep posting here long enough, and you will join their ranks.

 

There is a good chance he will encourage other theists to become

atheists. One might suspect that he was hired by the EEC (which

doesn't exist of course) to pretend to be a theist.

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 20:16, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <1182606959.960799.6...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,

>

>

>

>

>

> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > On 22 Jun., 20:58, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > In article <f5gnn1$4j...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

> > snip

>

> > > > Make up your mind. Do you want ID to be taught or do you want "public

> > > > school teachers...to not teach our children false information"? Which i=

> > s it?

>

> > > Public school teachers would teach ID--if it was legal in that state.

> > > Christian biology teachers are required to teach evolution whether they

> > > believe it is true or false information.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -

>

> > And they are required to teach that the world is spherical. Terrible

> > isn't it? Teachers should be free to teach the children whatever they

> > please, right Jason?

>

> No--they are restricted and I have no problem with that. For example, they

> can not teach ID unless it's legal.

 

No Jason, they cannot teach it in a science class unless it is

science. That is why court decisions have gone against the advocates

of ID. You yourself have admitted that it is not science but an

attempt to get around the law, i.e. that it is a fraud.

 

I want to make it legal for teachers

> to teach ID- Skjul tekst i anf

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 20:16, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <f5j9qm$nq...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

>

> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> > Jason wrote:

> > > In article <f5hc96$pc...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

> > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> > >> And it has nothing to do with the teacher's beliefs. It has to do with

> > >> what is supported by the evidence. So again, which is it? Do you want ID

> > >> taught or do you want them not to teach false information? Answer the

> > >> question.

>

> > > I want them to teach evolution and Intelligent Design. I don't consider ID

> > > to be false information.

>

> > I.e. you want them to teach the truth and the fiction both, right? Why

> > would you want something that's false to be taught as being true? (and

> > that question applies no matter WHICH you believe to be true.)

>

> I don't consider ID to be fiction.

 

You consider one of them to be fiction, yet you want both to be

taught. In any event you have already admitted that ID is not

science, so you are advocating lying.

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 20:17, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <1182605310.578897.58...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,

>

>

>

>

>

> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > On 22 Jun., 07:09, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > In article <1182485614.548401.179...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

snip

>

> > > > So it is a lie to say that "Intelligent design" is a scientific theory

> > > > and not just thinly disguised religion, isn't it? As you say, even

> > > > children could see through this.

>

> > > > Martin

>

> > > Probably so--the goal was to comply with the law and still teach the

> > > basics of creation science.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -

>

> > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -

>

> > Wow, you just admitted it is fraud and that you have been lying all

> > this time. Are you a troll Jason?

>

> They were trying to comply with the law.-

 

They were trying to bypass the law by the use of deceit. As you said,

even a child could tell that ID is about your god not science.

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 20:19, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article

> <DipthotDipthot-B842A2.09290823062...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,

>

>

>

>

>

> 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:

> > In article

> > <Jason-2106072223020...@66-52-22-33.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>,

> > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>

> > > Probably not. Even if we won in one court, the advocates of evolution

> > > would do some judge shopping and find a liberal judge that would rule in

> > > their favor.

>

> > Your political underwear is showing.

>

> > You don't care about truth.

>

> > You have avoided EVERYONE's point here that ID/creation "science" is not

> > science and doesn't belong in a science curriculum.

>

> > You have failed to present a single argument in refutation of that point.

>

> > You haven't even bothered to defend your position that ID/"Creation

> > science" should be taught; you have merely repeated it.

>

> > Your key defense? Lyrics from a rock song (a song, by the way, that was

> > about something utterly different).

>

> > You just want your "side" to win.

>

> Yes--I would like my side to win. You appear to want your side to win. In

> this case, your side won.

 

Because (and you agree with this) it was easily determined that ID was

about god not science. The judges decided in the only honest way they

could. It is not the validity of a scientific theory you are

interested in (you have admitted your lack of knowledge about

science); you are interested in having your religious views being

taught in public schools, which would mean the end of freedom of

religion in the US.

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 20:21, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <f5j69u$k7...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

>

>

>

>

>

> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> > Martin wrote:

> > > On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > >> In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> > >> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > >>> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their

> > >>> beliefs.

> > >> Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I

> > >> believe Allah is a false God.

>

> > > I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not

> > > convincing evidence. Thank you.

>

> > HIS religious scripture (and only the part of that which he agrees with)

> > is "evidence." All other religious scripture (as well as the parts of

> > the bible that he doesn't like) is NOT evidence. Got it this time? Geez,

> > Martin, how many times do we have to explain this to you?

>

> Mike,

> Thanks--you got it.

> Jason- Skjul tekst i anf

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 23 Jun., 20:24, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <f5j6ba$k7...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

>

>

>

>

>

> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> > Jason wrote:

> > > In article <1182564249.084179.188...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

> > >> On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > >>> In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> > >>> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > >>>> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their

> > >>>> beliefs.

> > >>> Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I

> > >>> believe Allah is a false God.

> > >> I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not

> > >> convincing evidence. Thank you.

>

> > >> Martin

>

> > > It is evidence in some cases.

>

> > And how do you decide in which cases it is evidence and in which cases

> > it's not?

>

> My religious scripture (and only the part of that I agree with)

> is "evidence." All other religious scripture (as well as the parts of

> the bible that I don't like) is NOT evidence. Got it this time?- Skjul tekst i anf

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 24 Jun., 05:40, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-4QUFPXH2renI@M>, d...@dandrake.com wrote:

> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 23:58:09 UTC, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

snip.

>

> It goes back even further than that. Anyone that has done any research

> related to geologic time knows there were time periods in the history of

> the earth that were warm and periods of time when it was cold (ice age).- Skjul tekst i anf

[Guest gudloos@yahoo.com]

On 24 Jun., 05:49, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <xo6dnbb2y9_1fODbnZ2dnUVZ_rykn...@sti.net>, "David V."

>

> <s...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Jason wrote:

>

> > > I was referring to state government representatives voting to

> > > secede from the union. Any state could do it for any reason.

> > > That is what started the civil war.

>

> > Think about it for a second....... why would they want to vote to

> > take California out of the Union and join Mexico? Why? It makes

> > absolutely no sense at all. Just think.

>

> I don't know their reasons--perhaps they want ownership of millions of

> homes, businesses and factories.

 

If California joined Mexico (the country the US took it away from by

the way) the proponents would not own all that property. Furthermore

the overwhelming number of immigrants left Mexico for a better life,

they would have little reason to want to have California transformed

into what they left.

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 11:07 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <1182652530.373566.176...@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > On Jun 24, 9:33 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > In article <1182642986.366014.191...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>

> > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > On Jun 24, 4:14 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>

> > > > > > Introduction to basic facts of history:

>

> > > > > 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC.

>

> > > > Sun worship has been practiced in Europe over the same period of

> > > > time. It is the reason why the Sabbath (originally on Saturday) was

> > > > moved to Sunday (in agreement with pagan traditions. (See

> > > >http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000704.htm) December 25th, similarly,

> > > > was chosen as the day to celebrate Christmas simply because it was the

> > > > date of the festival for a popular sun-god in Rome. (See

> > > >http://www.nisbett.com/holidays/christmas_and_sun_worship.htm).

>

> > > > > The

> > > > > crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon

> worship as far

> > > > > back as 2000 BC.

>

> > > > The sun is a symbol of Christian worship to this day, just as the moon

> > > > is a symbol of Islamic worship.

>

> (Seehttp://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/monstr.htm

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > ) Halos are, in particular, symbols indicating sun worship with halos

> > > > drawn over the pictures of both Christ and all of the saints: word

> > > > "halo" comes from the name of the god Helios. (See

> > > >http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000704.htm). The celebration of

> > > > Easter also borrows from pagan traditions that celebrate

> > > > fertility(rabbits and eggs) and the date corresponds to the beginning

> > > > of spring. (Seehttp://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/easter.htm).

>

> > > > > 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah.

> > > > > 3. This Hubal was a moon god.

>

> > > > So his name wasn't Allah as you claimed.

>

> > > This information was part of the original report:

>

> > > 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper

> > > name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god".

> > > Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan

> > > god as "al-ilah".

> > > 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting

> > > his new religion in 610 AD.

> > > 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah".

>

> > There is also evidence that Jesus is simply a renaming of Osiris: the

> > early Christian cross looks remarkably like an ankh cross, for

> > example.

>

> I have never heard of the ankh cross. I know how the Christian cross came

> to be.

 

If you've never heard of the ankh cross then you don't know how the

Christain cross really came to be: all you know is the lies you've

been told.

> > Is there a reason why you choose to ignore this evidence?

 

I ask you again: why do you ignore the compelling evidence that your

religion is derived from pagan worship?

 

Martin

> > > 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name

> > > "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah".

>

> > > > > 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god

> Hubal was

> > > > > placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before

> Muhammad. This may

> > > > > in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of

> every minaret

> > > > > at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque

> > > > > throughout the world

>

> > > > The cross also has its origins in the Swastika, which actually dates

> > > > back 3000 years and originated in Asia (and is still used as a

> > > > Buddhist symbol to this day). (See

> > > >http://members.porchlight.ca/blackdog/swastika.htm

> > > > ). The ankh cross of Egypt was similarly the symbol of the Egyptian

> > > > god Osiris who, like Jesus, was said to have returned from the dead.

> > > > The top portion of the ankh cross represents the sun. (See

> > > >http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/relics.htmlordo your own google

> > > > search.)

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 11:13 am, "David V." <s...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

>

> > I was referring to state government representatives voting to

> > secede from the union. Any state could do it for any reason.

> > That is what started the civil war.

>

> Think about it for a second....... why would they want to vote to

> take California out of the Union and join Mexico? Why? It makes

> absolutely no sense at all. Just think.

 

It would make more sense to take all of Mexico and have it join

California.

 

Martin

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 11:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <1182652833.759427.117...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > On Jun 24, 9:50 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > In article <149r73h2ir1qso5isju4u6a29mthvs3...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

>

> > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> > > > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:27:13 -0700, in alt.atheism

> > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> > > > <Jason-2306071427140...@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

> > > > >In article <111r73drpnujfmtbbtq6h7mger4on49...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

> > > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>

> > > > >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:08:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism

> > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> > > > >> <Jason-2306071108190...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

> > > > >> >In article <f5j9aa$nq...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

> > > > >> ><prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

>

> > > > >> >> Jason wrote:

> > > > >> >> > In article

>

> > > <1182559237.898964.32...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>

> > > > >> >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> > > > >> >> >> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > > >> >> >>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>,

> Free Lunch

> > > > >> >> >>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> > > > >> >> >>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design?

> > > > >> >> >>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and

> > > > >curriculum

> > > > >> >> >>> guide to teach those classes.

> > > > >> >> >> You didn't answer the question, Jason.

> > > > >> >> > I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't

> > > > >know what

> > > > >> >> > sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide.

>

> > > > >> >> Again, you didn't answer the question, Jason. It was "what

> scientific

> > > > >> >> facts can they teach about ID?" and NOT "what scientific facts are

> > > > >> >> contained in a specific book?"

>

> > > > >> >> If ID is scientific, then there should be some specific scientific

> > > facts

> > > > >> >> that can be taught about it. What are some of them?

>

> > > > >> >Regardless, I don't know what scientific facts ID has.

>

> > > > >> No one does. There are none.

>

> > > > >> >Try visiting their website.

>

> > > > >> It won't help.

>

> > > > >> >You never did answer my question. You mentioned all of the

> research that

> > > > >> >has been done on that cluster of cells. What sort of creature

> evolved from

> > > > >> >that cluster of cells?

>

> > > > >> You've demonstrated that you don't care. If you did, you would learn

> > > > >> something about biology.

>

> > > > >You failed to answer the question. I suspect the reason is because no

> > > > >creature evolved from that cluster of cells.

>

> > > > Your suspicion arises from your carefully cultivated ignorance.

>

> > > > As usual, you are wrong.

>

> > > Please tell me more about the creature that evolved from that cluster of

> > > cells. Did it have a heart? Did it have eyes? Where can I see a picture of

> > > this creature that evolved from a cluster of cells?

>

> > How about a jellyfish? It has no heart, no eyes, not even a brain and

> > yet it is a multicelled animal. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish

> I visited the site. I found this interesting information.

>

> It appears that jellyfish have a nervous system; digestive system and

> epidermis.

>

> Can scientists conduct an experiment and videotape a mass of cells

> evolving into a jellyfish?

 

A jellyfish _is_ a mass of cells. In any case, you were asking how a

mass of cells could evolve into an animal with a heart and eyes and I

was pointing out that a primitive creature could exist without a heart

and eyes and that, in fact, such creatures exist to this day. You

claim that a jellyfish has a digestive system but in fact it has "an

incomplete digestive system, meaning that the same orifice is used for

both food intake and waste expulsion". Meanwhile, "epidermis" just

means "skin": you probably didn't know that. The jellyfish is a

remarkably simple creature: it is literally little more than a mass of

cells working in harmony and yet it is part of the animal kingdom.

 

I've already answered your question and yet you never answered ours:

in what way can "Intelligent Design" be considered a scientific

theorey? What scientific facts can be said to support it? Is this

how you choose to avoid questions, namely by trying to divert our

attention with irrelevent questions of your own?

 

Martin

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 11:30 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <1182653986.052621.55...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > On Jun 24, 10:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > In article <1182640589.368717.129...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>

> > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > On Jun 24, 2:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > > > In article <qoidnf2gSvcJs-DbnZ2dnUVZ_vumn...@sti.net>, "David V."

>

> > > > > <s...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > Jason wrote:

>

> > > > > > > My question is not related to the Pandas and People book. I

> > > > > > > believe that if Hillary elected and Democrats are in control

> > > > > > > of both houses of Congress--it will cause the slow decline and

> > > > > > > fall of America. A national healthcare program will cost

> > > > > > > billions of dollars--each year.....

>

> > > > > > Then why is it that most of the "first world" countries have a

> > > > > > national health care and they are not collapsing but thriving?

>

> > > > > > > You mentioned the decline of the value of a dollar--it will

> > > > > > > keep going down. Visit a Walmart--most of those products were

> > > > > > > NOT made in America--they are made in China. Many factories

> > > > > > > have closed down.

>

> > > > > > Thanks to the Republicans, and to some extent Democrats, and

> > > > > > their trade policies that have moved too many jobs overseas. The

> > > > > > "free trade acts" are only free for the rich. It can be changed

> > > > > > though.

>

> > > > > > > The decline and fall of America started about 10 years ago

>

> > > > > > Actually, it stated much earlier - with Reagan.

>

> > > > > > > and will fall like a lead balloon if Hillary Clinton is

> > > > > > > elected and Democates control both houses of Congress.

>

> > > > > > Don't forget, that fall started with Reagan and accelerated

> > > > > > exponentially under the current president.

>

> > > > > > And about immigration... don't forget that the Europeans here ARE

> > > > > > immigrants. The christian "settlers" used a form well known to

> > > > > > them - genocide - to clear out the original inhabitants of this

> > > > > > continent.

>

> > > > > You would have to live in southern California or the south part of

> Florida

> > > > > to truly understand the problem.

>

> > > > You would have to be a racist bigot to actually see a problem.

>

> > > > So much for your claim that you didn't hate anybody. Not that anybody

> > > > believed you.

>

> > > I support legal immigration. Do you support illegal immigration?

>

> > It is your government's laws that determine what is legal and what is

> > not legal. The fact is that there is still no program in place for

> > Mexicans to legally come to the US to find temporary work and then

> > return to Mexico.

> I agree---they should have a guest worker program. It may be difficult to

> locate them when the growing season was over.

 

Tell you what, Jason, why don't you go out and get a job yourself

picking fruit. Or are you completely useless now that you've turned

57?

 

Martin

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 11:32 am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:50:55 -0700, in alt.atheism

> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> <Jason-2306071850560...@66-52-22-68.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

>

> >In article <149r73h2ir1qso5isju4u6a29mthvs3...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> >> Your suspicion arises from your carefully cultivated ignorance.

>

> >> As usual, you are wrong.

>

> >Please tell me more about the creature that evolved from that cluster of

> >cells. Did it have a heart? Did it have eyes? Where can I see a picture of

> >this creature that evolved from a cluster of cells?

>

> There are living examples of many differing levels of complexity of

> multicellular life on earth. Learn about them.

>

> God did not tell you to remain ignorant. Nothing in the Bible excuses

> your disdain for knowledge.

 

"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe" (Jn. 20:29)

 

His god didn't tell him anything because his god doesn't exist but his

religion _does_ teach him to be ignorant.

 

Martin

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 11:50 am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:30:41 -0700, in alt.atheism

> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> <Jason-2306072030410...@66-52-22-2.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

>

> >In article <1182653986.052621.55...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> >> On Jun 24, 10:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> >> > In article <1182640589.368717.129...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>

> ...

>

> >> > > So much for your claim that you didn't hate anybody. Not that anybody

> >> > > believed you.

>

> >> > I support legal immigration. Do you support illegal immigration?

>

> >> It is your government's laws that determine what is legal and what is

> >> not legal. The fact is that there is still no program in place for

> >> Mexicans to legally come to the US to find temporary work and then

> >> return to Mexico.

> >I agree---they should have a guest worker program. It may be difficult to

> >locate them when the growing season was over.

>

> You're sounding very much like a racist here.

 

This is nothing new for Jason. I picked up on his subtle racism a

long time ago.

 

Martin

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 11:57 am, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > In article <vs2dnZ6aP9D9weDbnZ2dnUVZ_ovin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish

> > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:

>

> >> Jason wrote:

>

> >>> I consider Christianity to be a true religion and conder Jehovah to be the

> >>> only God. I consider Allah to be a false God.

> >> (snip)

>

> >> What process, in your life, lead you to these conclusions?

>

> > My parents were Christians which played a role. While in college, I took a

> > course related to the World Religions. None of those world religions

> > appealed to me.

>

> Then why do you act so ignorant of other faiths?

 

It's yet another subject he managed to avoid learning anything about.

 

Martin

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 12:03 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:57:00 -0700, in alt.atheism

> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> <Jason-2306072057000...@66-52-22-2.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

> >In article <sfqr739qvgv6fpjho432l4ull41t9oi...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>

> >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:30:41 -0700, in alt.atheism

> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> >> <Jason-2306072030410...@66-52-22-2.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

> >> >In article <1182653986.052621.55...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

> >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> >> >> On Jun 24, 10:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> >> >> > In article <1182640589.368717.129...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,

> >Martin

>

> >> ...

>

> >> >> > > So much for your claim that you didn't hate anybody. Not that anybody

> >> >> > > believed you.

>

> >> >> > I support legal immigration. Do you support illegal immigration?

>

> >> >> It is your government's laws that determine what is legal and what is

> >> >> not legal. The fact is that there is still no program in place for

> >> >> Mexicans to legally come to the US to find temporary work and then

> >> >> return to Mexico.

> >> >I agree---they should have a guest worker program. It may be difficult to

> >> >locate them when the growing season was over.

>

> >> You're sounding very much like a racist here.

>

> >I am in favor of legal immigration. Are you in favor of illegal immigration?

>

> Of course not. Your comment about it being difficult to locate them

> struck me as subtle racism. It was gratuitous and out of context.

 

What amazes me is how I grew up in Canada being able to cross over to

the United States no questions asked. One time I was in a car with a

guy from Brazil: the American border patrol checked his passport but

they told me they didn't need to see mine. Why not?

 

Martin

[Guest Michael Gray]

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:36:48 -0700, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote:

- Refer: <1182667008.995292.7280@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>

>On 23 Jun., 20:24, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>> In article <f5j6ba$k7...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

>> > Jason wrote:

>> > > In article <1182564249.084179.188...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>> > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> > >> On Jun 23, 9:27 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>> > >>> In article <1182560736.318058.6...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>> > >>> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> > >>>> Why do you not consider THEIR book to be evidence supporting their

>> > >>>> beliefs.

>> > >>> Their book (the Quran) does support their beliefs. I am stating that I

>> > >>> believe Allah is a false God.

>> > >> I see. So religious scripture is not evidence, or at least not

>> > >> convincing evidence. Thank you.

>>

>> > >> Martin

>>

>> > > It is evidence in some cases.

>>

>> > And how do you decide in which cases it is evidence and in which cases

>> > it's not?

>>

>> My religious scripture (and only the part of that I agree with)

>> is "evidence." All other religious scripture (as well as the parts of

>> the bible that I don't like) is NOT evidence. Got it this time?- Skjul tekst i anf

[Guest Martin Phipps]

On Jun 24, 12:29 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > In article <vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-jIHnCsR7sdQY@M>, d...@dandrake.com wrote:

>

> >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 23:52:37 UTC, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>

> >>> In article <vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-iQnMvZtdsMwD@M>, d...@dandrake.com wrote:

>

> >>>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 05:23:02 UTC, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>

> >>>>> Probably not. Even if we won in one court, the advocates of evolution

> >>>>> would do some judge shopping and find a liberal judge that would rule in

> >>>>> their favor.

> >>>> Sure, right, just like the Dover case, which I mentioned on another

> >>>> sub-thread.

>

> >>>> THEY'RE ALL CONSPIRING AGAINST US. EVEN THE CONSERVATIVES ARE LIBERAL!!!1!

> >>> Many judges are part of the establishment.

> >> All judges are, by definition, if you like, part of the establishment. So,

> >> as Free Lunch has pointed out, is Christianity. It would be sheer idiocy

> >> to think that either of these, or any other large chunk of the

> >> establishment, is united in its views of the world and its willingness to

> >> conspire to suppress the T R U T H .

>

> > Christianity was once part of the establishment but in many cities, it is

> > no longer part of the establishment. That is especially true in large

> > cities in most states. The ACLU knows the names of the most liberal judges

> > in America. When they want to win a case, they make sure the judge that

> > hears the case is one of those liberal judges. They know they will win

> > before they even go to court. They use the term, "the fix is in."

>

> And where did you learn this from? One of your preachers who couldn't

> get his Christian prayers in the local public schools?

 

It's amazing that Christians can't find judges to their liking.

Apparently you need a certain level of intelligence to be a judge and

this is a severe limitation for them.

 

Martin

[Guest Free Lunch]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:42:22 -0000, in alt.atheism

Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in

<1182674542.724427.249280@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:

>On Jun 24, 12:03 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:57:00 -0700, in alt.atheism

>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

>> <Jason-2306072057000...@66-52-22-2.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

>

>> >In article <sfqr739qvgv6fpjho432l4ull41t9oi...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

>> ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>>

>> >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:30:41 -0700, in alt.atheism

>> >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

>> >> <Jason-2306072030410...@66-52-22-2.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>:

>> >> >In article <1182653986.052621.55...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin

>> >> >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>

>> >> >> On Jun 24, 10:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>> >> >> > In article <1182640589.368717.129...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,

>> >Martin

>>

>> >> ...

>>

>> >> >> > > So much for your claim that you didn't hate anybody. Not that anybody

>> >> >> > > believed you.

>>

>> >> >> > I support legal immigration. Do you support illegal immigration?

>>

>> >> >> It is your government's laws that determine what is legal and what is

>> >> >> not legal. The fact is that there is still no program in place for

>> >> >> Mexicans to legally come to the US to find temporary work and then

>> >> >> return to Mexico.

>

>> >> >I agree---they should have a guest worker program. It may be difficult to

>> >> >locate them when the growing season was over.

>>

>> >> You're sounding very much like a racist here.

>>

>> >I am in favor of legal immigration. Are you in favor of illegal immigration?

>>

>> Of course not. Your comment about it being difficult to locate them

>> struck me as subtle racism. It was gratuitous and out of context.

>

>What amazes me is how I grew up in Canada being able to cross over to

>the United States no questions asked. One time I was in a car with a

>guy from Brazil: the American border patrol checked his passport but

>they told me they didn't need to see mine. Why not?

 

I'm going to take a wild guess that your ancestors came from Europe.

[Guest John Popelish]

gudloos@yahoo.com wrote:

> On 23 Jun., 20:09, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:

(snip)

>> Keep posting here long enough, and you will join their ranks.

>

> There is a good chance he will encourage other theists to become

> atheists. One might suspect that he was hired by the EEC (which

> doesn't exist of course) to pretend to be a theist.

 

He works hard for the money.

[Guest Don Kresch]

In alt.atheism On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:00:10 -0700, Jason@nospam.com

(Jason) let us all know that:

 

>Christianity was once part of the establishment but in many cities, it is

>no longer part of the establishment. That is especially true in large

>cities in most states. The ACLU knows the names of the most liberal judges

>in America. When they want to win a case, they make sure the judge that

>hears the case is one of those liberal judges. They know they will win

>before they even go to court. They use the term, "the fix is in."

 

Yeah, and there was a gunman on the grassy knoll, the planes

were remotely flown into the WTC, and we never landed on the moon.

 

 

Don

---

aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde

Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.

 

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"

Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"