Guest Martin Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 On Jun 25, 1:09 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <zJKdnaSxytuApOLbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdn...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <7Y-dncX-Q9ZSueLbnZ2dnUVZ_r6vn...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > > >>> I would never believe that life could evolve from non-life unless it was > > >>> proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. > > >> Sorry, but, based on what you have already written, I don't > > >> believe you. > > > >> If scientists, someday, put chemicals into an experiment and > > >> a demonstrably living, reproducing things resulted, I am > > >> predicting that you would say that now they have to > > >> replicate the origin of some living thing you are familiar > > >> with, like a goldfish, or a man, before you could believe > > >> that those things have a natural, non miraculous, origin. > > > >> I hope that someday, soon I get to test this prediction. > > > > No--I would believe it-- if I could see living cells under a microscope. > > > Nobody says they would be cells. Cells are the result of > > the last time natural causes brought forth life, on this > > planet. And those cells have been very efficient, ever > > since, at consuming energy rich molecules for their > > metabolism, making it very unlikely that other, completely > > novel forms of life will ever get a chance to form here. > > But in the lab, protected from the appetites of existing > > living forms, nobody knows what other possibilities might > > unfold. Cells have proved to be a very versatile and > > functional vehicle for life, but we don't know if other > > structures, based on other chemistry can live. But this > > while area or abiogenesis research is very interesting to me. > > > If we find novel forms of living chemistry on other planets, > > it will help to give us a better idea what the possibilities > > for living systems might include. Right now, we have > > essentially a single family tree to observe, and though some > > of our cousins are pretty weird, all have a distinct family > > resemblance at the biochemical level. > > > > The experiment would have to be "repeatable" by any scientist including > > > science professors that are employed by the ICR college. > > > It would be some of the first science they have ever done. > > I would trust people who have been doing biochemical science > > for a long time, a lot more. What research results have ICR > > professors ever produced? They appear to be strictly a > > propaganda machine, defending creation dogma. Have they > > done any experiments that miraculously create life? > > As I told another poster, I would believe the results of such an > experiment if I read about it in National Geographic. Try the Journal of Molecular Evolution first. http://www.springerlink.com/content/kr9u076717757161/ Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 On Jun 25, 1:23 pm, Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 1:09 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > In article <zJKdnaSxytuApOLbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdn...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > Jason wrote: > > > > In article <7Y-dncX-Q9ZSueLbnZ2dnUVZ_r6vn...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > > >> Jason wrote: > > > > >>> I would never believe that life could evolve from non-life unless it was > > > >>> proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. > > > >> Sorry, but, based on what you have already written, I don't > > > >> believe you. > > > > >> If scientists, someday, put chemicals into an experiment and > > > >> a demonstrably living, reproducing things resulted, I am > > > >> predicting that you would say that now they have to > > > >> replicate the origin of some living thing you are familiar > > > >> with, like a goldfish, or a man, before you could believe > > > >> that those things have a natural, non miraculous, origin. > > > > >> I hope that someday, soon I get to test this prediction. > > > > > No--I would believe it-- if I could see living cells under a microscope. > > > > Nobody says they would be cells. Cells are the result of > > > the last time natural causes brought forth life, on this > > > planet. And those cells have been very efficient, ever > > > since, at consuming energy rich molecules for their > > > metabolism, making it very unlikely that other, completely > > > novel forms of life will ever get a chance to form here. > > > But in the lab, protected from the appetites of existing > > > living forms, nobody knows what other possibilities might > > > unfold. Cells have proved to be a very versatile and > > > functional vehicle for life, but we don't know if other > > > structures, based on other chemistry can live. But this > > > while area or abiogenesis research is very interesting to me. > > > > If we find novel forms of living chemistry on other planets, > > > it will help to give us a better idea what the possibilities > > > for living systems might include. Right now, we have > > > essentially a single family tree to observe, and though some > > > of our cousins are pretty weird, all have a distinct family > > > resemblance at the biochemical level. > > > > > The experiment would have to be "repeatable" by any scientist including > > > > science professors that are employed by the ICR college. > > > > It would be some of the first science they have ever done. > > > I would trust people who have been doing biochemical science > > > for a long time, a lot more. What research results have ICR > > > professors ever produced? They appear to be strictly a > > > propaganda machine, defending creation dogma. Have they > > > done any experiments that miraculously create life? > > > As I told another poster, I would believe the results of such an > > experiment if I read about it in National Geographic. > > Try the Journal of Molecular Evolution first. http://springerlink.metapress.com/content/100107/ Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <yLGdnc5YpLro2-LbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. > > How so? > > I think it would very quickly lead governments being turned > over to various Christian leaders who would also quickly > begin fighting each other for control of more of the > faithful. Christians have never been bashful about forcing > their influence over others, when they have had the > political and military power to do so. People who think > they know what their hypothetical god thinks, and wants > other people to do, turn out to be very dangerous when they > have raw power. Interesting points. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182748554.698371.315430@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 12:32 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182735889.944828.206...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 25, 9:35 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182718201.208602.124...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On 24 Jun., 03:43, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <409r73h3qtei0prif7536hc0fu1h1p9...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > > snip > > > > > > > > > Jason has spoken. All Arabic-speaking Christians are worshipping > > a false > > > > > > > god because they use the word "Allah" when referring to God. > > > > > > > > If they read their Bibles, they will know all about the true God.- > > Skjul = > > > > > tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > > Their Bibles are written in Arabic, in which the equivalent to the > > > > > English word "God" is "Allah". That would apply to Christian Arabs of > > > > > all sects. Furthermore the first Christians did not call their god > > > > > "God", since "god" is an English word derived from German. Apparently > > > > > you think that only the English language Bibles are valid. I am not > > > > > surprised. > > > > > > No, I do not believe that only Bibles written in English are valid. Even > > > > if Allah is the word that is used for God in Bibles written in > > > > Arabic--that is not a problem. After reading their Bibles, they will > > > > realize that the God mentioned in the Holy Bible is the true God and that > > > > the moon god is a false God. > > > > > Why doesn't Christian sun worship render it a pagam religion in your > > > eyes? > > > > I don't know any Christians that worship the sun. > > So why do Christians go to church on SUNday? Why don't they go to > church on Saturday which is, according to the old testament, the day > to worship God, ie the Sabbath? Why do Christians ignore the > commandment to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? > > Martin Martin, Some Christians (Seventh Day Adventist) do go to church on Saturday. Most Christians go to church on Sunday since it is the Lord's Day--the day that Jesus rose from the dead. Saturday is the sabbath--Sunday is the Lord's day. We live under the NEW Covenant. Worship on the Lord's day is part of the new covenvant. Jason Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <yLGdnc5YpLro2-LbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> >>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. >> How so? >> >> I think it would very quickly lead governments being turned >> over to various Christian leaders who would also quickly >> begin fighting each other for control of more of the >> faithful. Christians have never been bashful about forcing >> their influence over others, when they have had the >> political and military power to do so. People who think >> they know what their hypothetical god thinks, and wants >> other people to do, turn out to be very dangerous when they >> have raw power. > > Interesting points. Thank you. At this point, I have read so many of your posts and been involved with enough of them, that I would like to give you something. Please don't be offended that it is a cartoon book. It is a very interesting read and entertaining as well as educational. I'm not much of a historian, but I have learned a lot from this author. Would you allow me to buy you a copy of this book? http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Modern-World-Part/dp/0060760044 A lot of it is just about the the entanglement of governments and the leaders of the Christian Church (because there was a lot of that going through the period of history covered by this volume.) I think you'll enjoy it. Check out the reviews. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182748912.441486.322840@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 1:02 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <8ggu73dtnsvkodpcgh2piufuv5hh73e...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:10:00 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > <Jason-2406072010000...@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >In article <7Y-dncX-Q9ZSueLbnZ2dnUVZ_r6vn...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > ><jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > > > >> Jason wrote: > > > > > >> > I would never believe that life could evolve from non-life unless it was > > > >> > proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. > > > > > >> Sorry, but, based on what you have already written, I don't > > > >> believe you. > > > > > >> If scientists, someday, put chemicals into an experiment and > > > >> a demonstrably living, reproducing things resulted, I am > > > >> predicting that you would say that now they have to > > > >> replicate the origin of some living thing you are familiar > > > >> with, like a goldfish, or a man, before you could believe > > > >> that those things have a natural, non miraculous, origin. > > > > > >> I hope that someday, soon I get to test this prediction. > > > > > >No--I would believe it-- if I could see living cells under a microscope. > > > > > >The experiment would have to be "repeatable" by any scientist including > > > >science professors that are employed by the ICR college. > > > > > ICR does not have any scientists, so they would have to hire some. Then > > > independent observers would have to make sure that the new scientists > > > weren't suborned. After all, the ICR has a good gig telling people lies > > > about science. They have you suckered really well. > > > > > You still haven't told us how much money they have defrauded you of by > > > their lies. If you are confused, all of their money is collected by > > > fraud, all of it. Whatever you gave them came to them because they lied > > > to you. > > > > That figure would be $0.00. They do have science professors > > No scientist believes in creationism. Having a Ph.D. does not make > one a scientist. > > Martin I know that having a Ph.D does not make one a scientist. This is a description related to a book that is advertised in the ICR newsletter: "On the Seventh Day" editor: J.F. Ashton A collection of essays by 40 doctorate-holding scientists who have a firm belief in God and explain how their knowledge of science backs and confirms their faith. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182748430.220459.112570@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182735702.411891.128...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 25, 9:25 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > I would never believe that life could evolve from non-life unless it was > > > > proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > Correction: you would never believe that life could evolve from non- > > > life even though it has been proved to you that it could happen in a > > > scientific experiment. You've admitted that no amount of evidence > > > would change your mind so don't lie about that now (yet again). > > > I am not qualified to judge experiments. > > Then stop pretending you are. > > > For example, if the scientists > > added DNA from a frog to the experiment, I doubt that would qualify. I > > would trust the judgements of the science professors that are employed by > > ICR's college. If they were able to repeat the experiment, I would believe > > that life could evolve from non-life. Also, if I read an article about the > > experiment in a magazine such as National Geographic > > You do realize that there are legitamate scientific journals out there > besides National Geographic, don't you? > > Martin That is true. National Geographic is much easier for me to buy than a scientific journal. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182748984.440289.108830@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 1:09 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <zJKdnaSxytuApOLbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdn...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > > > > > > > > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > Jason wrote: > > > > In article <7Y-dncX-Q9ZSueLbnZ2dnUVZ_r6vn...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > > > >> Jason wrote: > > > > > >>> I would never believe that life could evolve from non-life unless it was > > > >>> proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. > > > >> Sorry, but, based on what you have already written, I don't > > > >> believe you. > > > > > >> If scientists, someday, put chemicals into an experiment and > > > >> a demonstrably living, reproducing things resulted, I am > > > >> predicting that you would say that now they have to > > > >> replicate the origin of some living thing you are familiar > > > >> with, like a goldfish, or a man, before you could believe > > > >> that those things have a natural, non miraculous, origin. > > > > > >> I hope that someday, soon I get to test this prediction. > > > > > > No--I would believe it-- if I could see living cells under a microscope. > > > > > Nobody says they would be cells. Cells are the result of > > > the last time natural causes brought forth life, on this > > > planet. And those cells have been very efficient, ever > > > since, at consuming energy rich molecules for their > > > metabolism, making it very unlikely that other, completely > > > novel forms of life will ever get a chance to form here. > > > But in the lab, protected from the appetites of existing > > > living forms, nobody knows what other possibilities might > > > unfold. Cells have proved to be a very versatile and > > > functional vehicle for life, but we don't know if other > > > structures, based on other chemistry can live. But this > > > while area or abiogenesis research is very interesting to me. > > > > > If we find novel forms of living chemistry on other planets, > > > it will help to give us a better idea what the possibilities > > > for living systems might include. Right now, we have > > > essentially a single family tree to observe, and though some > > > of our cousins are pretty weird, all have a distinct family > > > resemblance at the biochemical level. > > > > > > The experiment would have to be "repeatable" by any scientist including > > > > science professors that are employed by the ICR college. > > > > > It would be some of the first science they have ever done. > > > I would trust people who have been doing biochemical science > > > for a long time, a lot more. What research results have ICR > > > professors ever produced? They appear to be strictly a > > > propaganda machine, defending creation dogma. Have they > > > done any experiments that miraculously create life? > > > > As I told another poster, I would believe the results of such an > > experiment if I read about it in National Geographic. > > Try the Journal of Molecular Evolution first. > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/kr9u076717757161/ > > Martin Martin, You already know that such journals are not of interest to me mainly because I do not have a degree in biology or a related field. On the other hand, magazines like National Geographic are easy for almost anyone to understand. I once subscribed to Discover (or is it spelled Discovery). Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <cvKdnYsvxLEzzeLbnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <zJKdnaSxytuApOLbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> In article <7Y-dncX-Q9ZSueLbnZ2dnUVZ_r6vnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jason wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I would never believe that life could evolve from non-life unless it was > >>>>> proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. > >>>> Sorry, but, based on what you have already written, I don't > >>>> believe you. > >>>> > >>>> If scientists, someday, put chemicals into an experiment and > >>>> a demonstrably living, reproducing things resulted, I am > >>>> predicting that you would say that now they have to > >>>> replicate the origin of some living thing you are familiar > >>>> with, like a goldfish, or a man, before you could believe > >>>> that those things have a natural, non miraculous, origin. > >>>> > >>>> I hope that someday, soon I get to test this prediction. > >>> No--I would believe it-- if I could see living cells under a microscope. > >> Nobody says they would be cells. Cells are the result of > >> the last time natural causes brought forth life, on this > >> planet. And those cells have been very efficient, ever > >> since, at consuming energy rich molecules for their > >> metabolism, making it very unlikely that other, completely > >> novel forms of life will ever get a chance to form here. > >> But in the lab, protected from the appetites of existing > >> living forms, nobody knows what other possibilities might > >> unfold. Cells have proved to be a very versatile and > >> functional vehicle for life, but we don't know if other > >> structures, based on other chemistry can live. But this > >> while area or abiogenesis research is very interesting to me. > >> > >> If we find novel forms of living chemistry on other planets, > >> it will help to give us a better idea what the possibilities > >> for living systems might include. Right now, we have > >> essentially a single family tree to observe, and though some > >> of our cousins are pretty weird, all have a distinct family > >> resemblance at the biochemical level. > >> > >>> The experiment would have to be "repeatable" by any scientist including > >>> science professors that are employed by the ICR college. > >> It would be some of the first science they have ever done. > >> I would trust people who have been doing biochemical science > >> for a long time, a lot more. What research results have ICR > >> professors ever produced? They appear to be strictly a > >> propaganda machine, defending creation dogma. Have they > >> done any experiments that miraculously create life? > > > > As I told another poster, I would believe the results of such an > > experiment if I read about it in National Geographic. > > I think that is progress. If it ever happens you will read > about it everywhere. High school students will be trying to > repeat it to win the science fair prize. It will be about > as big a story as the first Moon landing. > > > ICR does research projects--mainly related to fossils and rock formations > > at the Grand Canyon. One of their researchers has a doctorate in geology > > from Penn State. He has led 15 research expeditions to the Grand Canyon. > > Speaking of the Grand canyon, I live in Virginia, and heard > about the isotopic analysis of the sand layers that make up > the walls of the Grand Canyon. This analysis pretty > conclusively demonstrates that a large part of that sand > started out as part of the western side of the Blue ridge > mountains in Virginia, when they must have been much larger > than the Rocky mountains are, now. The rounded bumps > remaining are just the cores of those once majestic > mountains. With ion probe microscopes, electron microscopes > and mass spectrometers and other high tech equipment, a lot > of information can be pulled from a single grain of sand. > It is amazing, the information that can be extracted from > rocks, now, besides fossils. > > > The science professors that work at the ICR college could easily repeat > > such an experiment. They would write an article and publish it in the ICR > > newsletter. > > I hope to see that, someday. Thanks for the information re: the Grand Canyon. Yes, such an experiment would make the news. I doubt that it will ever happen. If it was easy--someone would have already done it. Jason Quote
Guest Bob T. Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > > <snip article> > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nutcases > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that > > America was more like Iran. > > > - Bob T. > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking on our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, including freedom from religion. - Bob T. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182747944.169313.258160@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 11:03 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > I googled > > "miracle healings" and read about dozens of other cases that provided > > evidence. > > Testimony is not evidence, Jason, especially when the people involved > are known liars. > > Martin funny--they are not known liars. Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Jason wrote: > Thanks for the information re: the Grand Canyon. > > Yes, such an experiment would make the news. I doubt that it will ever > happen. If it was easy--someone would have already done it. I agree. Difficult things take a while. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182748750.948199.94300@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 12:51 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <8oKdnUvAwJeWqeLbnZ2dnUVZ_qjin...@sti.net>, "David V." > > > > <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > I disagree. Evolution is a theory. > > > > > As I explained to you before, you do not know the definition of > > > the word 'theory,' and you got it wrong even after seeing it in a > > > dictionary. > > > > > > I looked up the word Evolution in my Webster's Dictionary..... > > > > > And you still don't get it. > > > > > Is this feigned ignorance on purpose? > > > > These two words were found on page 6 of the November 2004 issue of > > National Geographic: > > > > EVOLUTIONARY THEORY... > > http://users.ameritech.net/dennisreynolds1/GravitationalTheory.html > > If gravity is only a theory then how come we aren't floating off to > space? > > Martin Gravity and evolution are theories. You already know the answer to your question. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182747192.236018.205580@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 10:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182735087.582175.135...@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 25, 9:16 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <FM2dnSEybe2qW-PbnZ2dnUVZ_qLin...@sti.net>, "David V." > > > > > > <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > kmurphy...@houston.rr.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Ultimatims are not logical. Being forced to choose between > > > > > > two options doesn't exclude the possibility that a third > > > > > > option exists. Neither creationism nor evolution is correct. > > > > > > > Inventing a third option doesn't mean it's the correct one. > > > > > Evolution is a fact. It's not an option. > > > > > > Evolution is a theory > > > > > Evolution is a fact and natuaral selection is the theory that explains > > > how it works. You've had this explained to you before, Jason. > > > > I disagree. Evolution is a theory. I looked up the word Evolution in my > > Webster's Dictionary and it stated that evolution was a theory. > > the=B7o=B7ry > Function: noun > 1 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, > or an art <the theory and practice of medicine> > 2 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body > of principles offered to explain natural phenomena <a theory of > organic evolution> -see ATOMIC THEORY, CELL THEORY, GERM THEORY > 3 : a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on > experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is > accepted as a basis for experimentation > > Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, =A9 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. > > Yes, Webster's says Natural Selection is a theory. > > id=B7i=B7ot > Function: noun > : one affected with idiocy; especially : a mentally retarded person > having a mental age not exceeding three years and requiring complete > custodial care > > Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, =A9 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. > > Webster's also says you're an idiot. Don't blame me: take it up with > Webster's. > > Martin Post what it states about EVOLUTION Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182747255.256358.183450@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 25, 10:58 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182735594.401238.200...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 25, 9:18 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > In article > > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > > > > > > to teach ID > > > > > > > But it is legal to do that... > > > > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > > > > > > > So what's your problem? > > > > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of course, > > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > > > > > "Intelligent design" has no place in a biology class, Jason, because > > > "Intelligent design" is reliogion and not science. You admitted that > > > yourself when you said that even a child would know that the > > > "designer" was supposed to be God (or Allah as the case may be). > > > > That is true--even children could figure it out. Martin, it will probably > > never happen. The advocates of evolution will not let it happen. They will > > take states to court that want to teach ID. They do not want evolution to > > have to compete with ID. They are afraid that children will realize that > > ID makes more sense than Evolution. > > Religion only makes sense to diseased brains like your own, Jason. > > Martin Overwhelming Support in Ohio For Teaching Both Sides of Evolution, Zogby Poll Shows By: Staff Discovery Institute February 13, 2006 By more than a 3-to-1 margin, Ohio residents strongly support public school teachers presenting both the evidence for evolution, as well as the evidence challenging the theory, according to a new poll by Zogby International released today. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <TvmdnQ2lN4E_y-LbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <yLGdnc5YpLro2-LbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > >>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. > >> How so? > >> > >> I think it would very quickly lead governments being turned > >> over to various Christian leaders who would also quickly > >> begin fighting each other for control of more of the > >> faithful. Christians have never been bashful about forcing > >> their influence over others, when they have had the > >> political and military power to do so. People who think > >> they know what their hypothetical god thinks, and wants > >> other people to do, turn out to be very dangerous when they > >> have raw power. > > > > Interesting points. > > Thank you. At this point, I have read so many of your posts > and been involved with enough of them, that I would like to > give you something. Please don't be offended that it is a > cartoon book. It is a very interesting read and > entertaining as well as educational. I'm not much of a > historian, but I have learned a lot from this author. > > Would you allow me to buy you a copy of this book? > http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Modern-World-Part/dp/0060760044 > A lot of it is just about the the entanglement of > governments and the leaders of the Christian Church (because > there was a lot of that going through the period of history > covered by this volume.) I think you'll enjoy it. Check > out the reviews. Thanks for offering to buy me a copy of the book. You don't need to do that. I'll visit the site that you mentioned. jason Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <TvmdnQ2lN4E_y-LbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> In article <yLGdnc5YpLro2-LbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Jason wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. >>>> How so? >>>> >>>> I think it would very quickly lead governments being turned >>>> over to various Christian leaders who would also quickly >>>> begin fighting each other for control of more of the >>>> faithful. Christians have never been bashful about forcing >>>> their influence over others, when they have had the >>>> political and military power to do so. People who think >>>> they know what their hypothetical god thinks, and wants >>>> other people to do, turn out to be very dangerous when they >>>> have raw power. >>> Interesting points. >> Thank you. At this point, I have read so many of your posts >> and been involved with enough of them, that I would like to >> give you something. Please don't be offended that it is a >> cartoon book. It is a very interesting read and >> entertaining as well as educational. I'm not much of a >> historian, but I have learned a lot from this author. >> >> Would you allow me to buy you a copy of this book? >> http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Modern-World-Part/dp/0060760044 >> A lot of it is just about the the entanglement of >> governments and the leaders of the Christian Church (because >> there was a lot of that going through the period of history >> covered by this volume.) I think you'll enjoy it. Check >> out the reviews. > > Thanks for offering to buy me a copy of the book. You don't need to do > that. I'll visit the site that you mentioned. It would be my pleasure to send you a copy. No strings attached. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <1182751329.065068.288550@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > > > > <snip article> > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nutcases > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that > > > America was more like Iran. > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking on > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, > including freedom from religion. > > - Bob T. I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take over the world--one country at a time. They are presently committing genocide on the people that live in Darfur. After they take over control of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over surrounding countries. One expert believes they will eventually take over Spain without firing a shot. Mullahs are encouraging young followers to move to Spain. After 55% of the population of Spain are Muslims, they will vote only for Muslims. Those politicians will vote to establish the same sorts of laws they now have in Moslem countries. jason Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Jason wrote: > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take > over the world--one country at a time. They are presently committing > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. After they take over control > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over > surrounding countries. One expert believes they will eventually take over > Spain without firing a shot. Mullahs are encouraging young followers to > move to Spain. After 55% of the population of Spain are Muslims, they will > vote only for Muslims. Those politicians will vote to establish the same > sorts of laws they now have in Moslem countries. Yes, I think that might well be their plan. And the result will be just as evil as if Christians did the same thing. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <SbidncFVqIiy_eLbnZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <TvmdnQ2lN4E_y-LbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> In article <yLGdnc5YpLro2-LbnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jason wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. > >>>> How so? > >>>> > >>>> I think it would very quickly lead governments being turned > >>>> over to various Christian leaders who would also quickly > >>>> begin fighting each other for control of more of the > >>>> faithful. Christians have never been bashful about forcing > >>>> their influence over others, when they have had the > >>>> political and military power to do so. People who think > >>>> they know what their hypothetical god thinks, and wants > >>>> other people to do, turn out to be very dangerous when they > >>>> have raw power. > >>> Interesting points. > >> Thank you. At this point, I have read so many of your posts > >> and been involved with enough of them, that I would like to > >> give you something. Please don't be offended that it is a > >> cartoon book. It is a very interesting read and > >> entertaining as well as educational. I'm not much of a > >> historian, but I have learned a lot from this author. > >> > >> Would you allow me to buy you a copy of this book? > >> http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Modern-World-Part/dp/0060760044 > >> A lot of it is just about the the entanglement of > >> governments and the leaders of the Christian Church (because > >> there was a lot of that going through the period of history > >> covered by this volume.) I think you'll enjoy it. Check > >> out the reviews. > > > > Thanks for offering to buy me a copy of the book. You don't need to do > > that. I'll visit the site that you mentioned. > > It would be my pleasure to send you a copy. > No strings attached. I read the review. He has done books on other subjects. I am already behind related to books. I have a book that I have not yet read that my niece wants me to read. That book that you mentioned would be a fun book to read. Martin would probably like the physics book since he teaches physics. Jason Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <SbidncFVqIiy_eLbnZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> In article <TvmdnQ2lN4E_y-LbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: (snip) >>>> Would you allow me to buy you a copy of this book? >>>> http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Modern-World-Part/dp/0060760044 >>>> A lot of it is just about the the entanglement of >>>> governments and the leaders of the Christian Church (because >>>> there was a lot of that going through the period of history >>>> covered by this volume.) I think you'll enjoy it. Check >>>> out the reviews. >>> Thanks for offering to buy me a copy of the book. You don't need to do >>> that. I'll visit the site that you mentioned. >> It would be my pleasure to send you a copy. >> No strings attached. > > I read the review. He has done books on other subjects. I am already > behind related to books. I have a book that I have not yet read that my > niece wants me to read. That book that you mentioned would be a fun book > to read. Martin would probably like the physics book since he teaches > physics. I've been reading a few chapters at a time, in bed, to my wife. It is fun being all the voices of all the characters, but it is a lot of work. Anyway, I highly recommend this author to anyone of any age above about 3 or 4. He is a genius. I have thew whole set (Cartoon History of the Universe) up to and including this latest one. They're wonderful. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <N46dna7a8aZm_OLbnZ2dnUVZ_u7inZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take > > over the world--one country at a time. They are presently committing > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. After they take over control > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over > > surrounding countries. One expert believes they will eventually take over > > Spain without firing a shot. Mullahs are encouraging young followers to > > move to Spain. After 55% of the population of Spain are Muslims, they will > > vote only for Muslims. Those politicians will vote to establish the same > > sorts of laws they now have in Moslem countries. > > Yes, I think that might well be their plan. And the result > will be just as evil as if Christians did the same thing. You would have much less to fear from Christians than Muslims. Back in the 1700's, the Christians in America did kill some witches but they did not chop off the hands of theives like the Muslims do. The Muslims would chop off the heads of anyone that was not a Muslim. I suggest that you read this article: 12/24/04 A Look At Iran's Christian Minority By Golnaz Esfandiari Iran is officially designated the "Islamic Republic," yet among its more than 66 million people is a small but important Christian minority. Most of Iran's Christians are Armenians and Assyrians, who remain relatively free to follow their faith. The numbers of Protestants and evangelical Christians are said to be growing. For these people, life is often much more difficult. RFE/RL correspondent Golnaz Esfandiari takes a look at Iran's Christian minority. Prague, 23 December 2004 (RFE/RL) -- Christian Armenians and Assyrians have lived for centuries on the territory of what is today Iran. Vigen, one of Iran's most famous singers, came from the country's Armenian community. He was loved by all Iranians in spite of the fact his faith was different from the vast majority. He died recently, but remains a legend. The number of Armenians, Iran's largest Christian minority, was estimated at about 300,000 in 1979. It has declined in recent times but remains culturally important. Mardo Soghom, the director of RFE/RL's Radio Farda, is Armenian by origin but grew up in Isfahan, in central Iran. "The 400-year history of the Armenian community in Iran is perhaps the greatest example of religious tolerance and peaceful coexistence, even at the time when the country experienced isolation and socio-economic backwardness," Soghom said. "In the 20th century, as the country modernized, the Armenian community thrived both economically and culturally. After the revolution, dislocations and restrictions affecting the general population also created hardships for Armenians, nearly half the community left Iran. Some discriminatory policies and restrictions came into effect, but still community rights are generally protected." Armenians have two seats in the Iranian parliament but continue to face cultural, social, and administrative difficulties. They report discrimination in finding work, and just a few Armenian schools are fortunate enough to have an Armenian schoolmaster. The Assyrian Christian population is estimated at some 10,000. They have one seat in the parliament. Iran is also home to a small number of Catholics and a small but growing number of Protestants. A relatively new phenomenon is the rising number of Muslim-born Iranians who convert to Christianity. Issa Dibaj is the son of reverend Hassan Dibaj, a Christian convert who was jailed and later found murdered in 1994. Issa Dibaj left Iran five years ago and now lives in the U.K. "There is another Christian minority that people know little about, these are Iranians who are born as Muslims and then later become Christians," Dibaj said. "Their number is growing day by day. [There] may be around 100,000 [of them], but no one really knows the exact number." Such Christians run a potentially dangerous risk. Under Islamic law as practiced in Iran, a Muslim who converts to another faith can face the death penalty. The government has refrained from executing people for this in recent years, nevertheless it has taken measure to curb proselytizing by Christians. Some churches have been closed and reports say the authorities are putting pressure on evangelicals not to recruit Muslims or to allow them to attend services. In September, 85 member of the Assemblies of God church were arrested during a conference in Iran. One remains in jail. Dibaj said in spite of the restrictions, he sees a growing interest in Christianity: "[iranians] see that the establishment which came in the name of Islam has brought them only war, rancor, hatred, and killings. At the same time, they see the message of Jesus, which is love. It attracts them through programs they see on satellite or through their Christian friends." He added: "People are very curious, very interested. Iranians [are] open and they like to know more about different cultures, ideas, and religions. I had friends who had been prisoners of war in Iraq, at the university they were my best friends, they were very interested [about my faith], and I gave some of them the Bible." Iranian Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus pretty much like other Christians around the world. They decorate Christmas trees, exchange gifts, and attend services. Depending on the calendar, Armenians and Assyrians celebrate Christmas on 6 January. Others celebrate usually on 24 December. According to some reports Persia may even be the land of origin of the "Three Wise Men" who -- according to the Bible -- arrived bearing gifts for the birth of Christ. Some say they were Persian "Magi" -- members of priestly caste at the time. Reprinted with the permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, 1201 Connecticut Ave., N.W. Washington DC 20036. http://www.rferl.org Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 In article <9fydnbXMffYg--LbnZ2dnUVZ_qKqnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <SbidncFVqIiy_eLbnZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> In article <TvmdnQ2lN4E_y-LbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > (snip) > >>>> Would you allow me to buy you a copy of this book? > >>>> http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Modern-World-Part/dp/0060760044 > >>>> A lot of it is just about the the entanglement of > >>>> governments and the leaders of the Christian Church (because > >>>> there was a lot of that going through the period of history > >>>> covered by this volume.) I think you'll enjoy it. Check > >>>> out the reviews. > >>> Thanks for offering to buy me a copy of the book. You don't need to do > >>> that. I'll visit the site that you mentioned. > >> It would be my pleasure to send you a copy. > >> No strings attached. > > > > I read the review. He has done books on other subjects. I am already > > behind related to books. I have a book that I have not yet read that my > > niece wants me to read. That book that you mentioned would be a fun book > > to read. Martin would probably like the physics book since he teaches > > physics. > > I've been reading a few chapters at a time, in bed, to my > wife. It is fun being all the voices of all the characters, > but it is a lot of work. Anyway, I highly recommend this > author to anyone of any age above about 3 or 4. He is a > genius. I have thew whole set (Cartoon History of the > Universe) up to and including this latest one. They're > wonderful. The next time that I visit Barnes and Noble, I'll see if they have any copies. Please list the title of his best book and the name of the author. I forgot to write down that info. when I read the review. Jason Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Martin wrote: > On Jun 25, 12:32 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article <1182735889.944828.206...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> On Jun 25, 9:35 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>> In article <1182718201.208602.124...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >>>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>> On 24 Jun., 03:43, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>> In article <409r73h3qtei0prif7536hc0fu1h1p9...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>> snip >>>>>>> Jason has spoken. All Arabic-speaking Christians are worshipping >> a false >>>>>>> god because they use the word "Allah" when referring to God. >>>>>> If they read their Bibles, they will know all about the true God.- >> Skjul = >>>>> tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>>>> Their Bibles are written in Arabic, in which the equivalent to the >>>>> English word "God" is "Allah". That would apply to Christian Arabs of >>>>> all sects. Furthermore the first Christians did not call their god >>>>> "God", since "god" is an English word derived from German. Apparently >>>>> you think that only the English language Bibles are valid. I am not >>>>> surprised. >>>> No, I do not believe that only Bibles written in English are valid. Even >>>> if Allah is the word that is used for God in Bibles written in >>>> Arabic--that is not a problem. After reading their Bibles, they will >>>> realize that the God mentioned in the Holy Bible is the true God and that >>>> the moon god is a false God. >>> Why doesn't Christian sun worship render it a pagam religion in your >>> eyes? >> I don't know any Christians that worship the sun. > > So why do Christians go to church on SUNday? Why don't they go to > church on Saturday which is, according to the old testament, the day > to worship God, ie the Sabbath? Why do Christians ignore the > commandment to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? > > Martin > Because they are not Jews. Quote
Guest John Baker Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:51:30 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >In article <8oKdnUvAwJeWqeLbnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." ><spam@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > >> > I disagree. Evolution is a theory. >> >> As I explained to you before, you do not know the definition of >> the word 'theory,' and you got it wrong even after seeing it in a >> dictionary. >> >> > I looked up the word Evolution in my Webster's Dictionary..... >> > >> And you still don't get it. >> >> Is this feigned ignorance on purpose? > >These two words were found on page 6 of the November 2004 issue of >National Geographic: > >EVOLUTIONARY THEORY... Yes? Were you going somewhere with this? 'Evolution' is the term used to describe an observed and documented biological process. In short, a fact . 'Evolutionary theory ' is the term applied to the sets of proposals that explain (or attempt to explain) the mechanisms that drive the process. Theories are not and never will be facts. Rather, they are explanations of facts. If there were no observed, documented fact of evolution, there'd be no need for theories explaining it. The fact of evolution is indisputable, the claims of creationist propaganda mills like ICR and Discovery Institute not withstanding. Some aspects of the explanation (i.e. the theory) may indeed be open to question, but you are not qualified to do so. Not by a very, VERY long shot. Quote
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