Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <EU7gi.7357$n9.2445@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2506072227160001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article > > <DipthotDipthot-1DEF3B.19130325062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > >> In article > >> <Jason-2506071217400001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people that > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public schools > >> > >> Scientific truth is not a popularity contest. > >> > >> The masses, on average, are not too bright. Do you want that kind of > >> mediocre thinking foisted on our young? > >> > >> Of course you do. And that's called thought control. > > > > I would much prefer the citizens of Ohio electing politicians that will do > > what the citizens of Ohio want them to do related to education policy than > > to have a group of unelected evolutionists deciding education policy. > > jason > > Still prefer to remain scientifically illiterate, I see. If we trust them to elect members of Congress and serve on juries--we should trust them to elect the members of school boards and the state secratary of education. None of the these things matter--since the evolutionists will take the states to court if those elected representatives attempted to authorize the teaching of ID. In other words, unelected evolutionists are deciding school curriculum instead the politicians that represent the interests of the people that elected them. Jason Quote
Guest Frank Mayhar Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:06:13 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2506071757530001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> In article <1182816528.662652.63130@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Jun 26, 7:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> > In article <1182812886.632371.303...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >>> > Martin >>> > >>> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> > > On Jun 26, 2:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> > > > In article >>> > > > <1182769286.811353.191...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> Martin >>> > >>> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> > > > > On Jun 25, 1:43 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> > > > > > In article >>> > >>> > <1182748554.698371.315...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>> > >>> > > > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> > > > > > > On Jun 25, 12:32 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> > > > > > > > In article >>> > >>> > > > <1182735889.944828.206...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>> > >>> > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 9:35 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > In article >>> > >>> > <1182718201.208602.124...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >>> > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > On 24 Jun., 03:43, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > In article >>> > > > > > > > > > > > <409r73h3qtei0prif7536hc0fu1h1p9...@4ax.com>, >>> > > > Free Lunch >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > snip >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason has spoken. All Arabic-speaking >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Christians are >>> > > > worshipping >>> > > > > > > > a false >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > god because they use the word "Allah" when >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > referring >>> > to God. >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > If they read their Bibles, they will know all >>> > > > > > > > > > > > about the >>> > > > true God.- >>> > > > > > > > Skjul = >>> > > > > > > > > > > tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > Their Bibles are written in Arabic, in which the >>> > equivalent to the >>> > > > > > > > > > > English word "God" is "Allah". That would apply >>> > > > > > > > > > > to >>> > > > Christian Arabs of >>> > > > > > > > > > > all sects. Furthermore the first Christians did >>> > > > > > > > > > > not call >>> > > > their god >>> > > > > > > > > > > "God", since "god" is an English word derived from >>> > > > > > > > > > > German. >>> > > > Apparently >>> > > > > > > > > > > you think that only the English language Bibles >>> > > > > > > > > > > are valid. >>> > > > I am not >>> > > > > > > > > > > surprised. >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > No, I do not believe that only Bibles written in >>> > > > > > > > > > English are >>> > > > valid. Even >>> > > > > > > > > > if Allah is the word that is used for God in Bibles >> written in >>> > > > > > > > > > Arabic--that is not a problem. After reading their >>> > > > > > > > > > Bibles, >>> > they will >>> > > > > > > > > > realize that the God mentioned in the Holy Bible is >> the true God >>> > > > > > and that >>> > > > > > > > > > the moon god is a false God. >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > Why doesn't Christian sun worship render it a pagam >>> > > > > > > > > religion >>> > in your >>> > > > > > > > > eyes? >>> > >>> > > > > > > > I don't know any Christians that worship the sun. >>> > >>> > > > > > > So why do Christians go to church on SUNday? Why don't >>> > > > > > > they go to >>> > > > > > > church on Saturday which is, according to the old >>> > > > > > > testament, >> the day >>> > > > > > > to worship God, ie the Sabbath? Why do Christians ignore >>> > > > > > > the commandment to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? >>> > >>> > > > > > Some Christians (Seventh Day Adventist) do go to church on >>> > Saturday. Most >>> > > > > > Christians go to church on Sunday since it is the Lord's >>> > > > > > Day--the >>> > day that >>> > > > > > Jesus rose from the dead. >>> > >>> > > > > Read your Bible, Jason: Jesus was supposedly buried on a >>> > > > > Friday (the >>> > > > > day before the Jewish Sabbath) and it is said that he rose >>> > > > > again after >>> > > > > THREE DAYS. Three days after Friday is Monday, not Sunday, >>> > > > > Jason. No >>> > > > > wonder you only barely passed Math 101. >>> > >>> > > > I copied the following information from a book entitled, "The >>> > > > Bible Has >>> > > > the Answer" by Dr. Henry M. Morris >>> > >>> > > > "The worship on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor >>> > > > 16:2) >>> > > > follows the practice of the early Christians, who evidently >>> > > > began it in >>> > > > commemoration of Christ's resurrection on that day (Luke 24:1, >>> > > > John 20: >>> > > > 19, 26). That day is highly apropriate, since the completion of >> His great >>> > > > work of redemption was demonstred on that day...." >>> > >>> > > Thank you for proving that Henry Morris ia a liar whom you are >>> > > willing >>> > > to believe ahead of your own Bible. >>> > >>> > He mentioned scriptures from the Bible to support his statements. >>> >>> Which doesn't change the fact that the Bible disagrees with him. First >>> look at Mark: >>> >>> Mark 8:31: "And He [Jesus] began to teach them that the Son of Man >>> must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief >>> priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." >>> >>> Mark 9:31: "For He taught His disciples and said to them, `The Son of >>> Man is being delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him. >>> And after He is killed, He will rise the third day.' " >>> >>> So if Jesus was buried on "Good" Friday then there is no way he could >>> have risen on Sunday. And it was supposedly Friday, the day before >>> the Sabbath according to John and Luke: >>> >>> John 19:31. "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the >>> bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath [for that Sabbath >>> was a high day). >>> >>> Luke 23:56. The women ".. prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they >>> rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment " >>> >>> Some have argued that a "day" meant 12 hours but Matthew makes it >>> clear that "three days" includes "three nights": >>> >>> Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights in the heart of the >>> earth." >>> >>> Why are so you ignorant of what your Bible says, the book which you >>> claim to believe in? >>> >>> Martin >> >> Martin, >> I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition >> that Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find >> out the reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > Do you know where the word "Easter" came from? > > Think "Pagan spring fertility festival". Ayup. We're still celebrating the Goddess, all these centuries later! :-) -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <5eclv9F38b9mhU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2506072238410001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1182828376.590242.59740@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 26, 9:12 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <yAZfi.7126$n9.6...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> > >news:Jason-2406071818230001@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > > > In article > >> > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> In article > >> > > >> <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >> > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > I want to make it legal for teachers > >> > > >> > to teach ID > >> > > >> > > >> But it is legal to do that... > >> > > >> > > >> ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > >> > > >> > > >> So what's your problem? > >> > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > >> > > > course, > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > >> > > >> > > Tell me Jason, just how would you propose teaching ID as science? > > Please be > >> > > specific in your reply. > >> > > >> > Teachers and students would use the textbook "Of Pandas and People" > >> > which > >> > has no Biblical content. > >> > >> It also has no scientific content. And you can't argue that it does > >> because you've never seen it. > >> > >> Martin > > > > That's true--just a book review. > > How can you advocate something you haven't even bothered to read? Since I know the basics of creation science and ID--I don't need to re-learn the basics of creation science and ID by reading the book. It's like a high school physics teacher not needing to read the high school physics textbook cover to cover prior to teaching the first class. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <46811A14.2050701@osu.edu>, James Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > [in response to <hpk0831bpvg6k5opju35jsrineoqapd09d@4ax.com>, > > Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> ] > > > > So 68% of the people in Ohio want teachers to teach Evolution > > and ID. However, evolutionists want to control what teachers > > are able to teach. Unlike you, I believe the people that live > > in Ohio should be allowed to have a voice in deciding school > > curriculum. > > That 68% live under a constitution that protects the minority > from the majority. This includes protection from having > anyone's religion shoved down their throats by the government. > > Teaching your Biblical literalism as though it were science > in a government-mandated class qualifies absolutely as > "shoving your religion down my children's throat". This > is true not just for non-Christians, but for all the Christians > who are /not/ Biblical literalists. > > > But you know this, Jason. You /show/ that you know this because > you do NOT argue against evolution by using the constitutional > argument -- which is a much stronger argument, if you can > swing it. > > Why did our Founders add the First Amendment to the US > Constitution? Because they saw the devastation brought > by the wars over established churches in Europe. Is that > devastation what you want for the United States? I don't > know about you specifically, Jason, but some of your > fellow Creationists are hoping for the End Times; war and > destruction is a sign that Christ is coming, for them. > > What percentage of Ohioans would want Intelligent > Design taught in their classrooms if they knew it > was part of a plan to give Pestilence, War, Famine, and > Death free rein in Ohio? > > Jim Burns If ID was taught in every biology class in America, none of those things would happen. Thousands of children in each state learn about ID in Christian schools and as part of home schooling programs. The graduates don't cause pestilence, war, famine and death. You are paranoid about nothing. Stalin was an atheist and he killed millions of people. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > [snip] > > >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >school curriculum. > > And they do, in every state even. > > >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > >evolution to be taught. > > I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you > have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to > teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to > teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, > have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even > though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to > "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content > to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that > (non-existent) content. > > So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent > Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" > means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence > and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers > acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the > designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, > answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue > on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. > I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read the articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want to learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: "Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182873615.385634.169780@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 02:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.ne= > t>, > > > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > > > > > > > > to teach ID > > > > > > > > > But it is legal to do that... > > > > > > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > > > > > > > > > So what's your problem? > > > > > > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of co= > urse, > > > > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > > > > > > > Why should a person with no understanding of science (self-admitted) > > > > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the US > > > > > give up religious freedom? > > > > > > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people that > > > > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public schools= > . I > > > > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be taug= > ht in > > > > the public schools. > > > > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > > outright. Their loss. > > > > > Martin > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > > state school should quit.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > I didn't think you would answer the question. Apparently you are > afraid of it just like all the others you ignore. I did provide an answer--perhaps you were not satisfied with my answer--but I did provide an answer. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <5eclnvF378rnuU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in > > snip > > > It's now easy for me to understand why the home schooling movement is > > growing and the reason why so many large churches are now starting their > > own Christian schools. Many of the rich people in this town send their > > children to a Catholic prep school. I don't blame all of those parents for > > giving up on the public school system. > > Keep in mind that not all public schools are bad. Where I live (Bergen > County, NJ), they're great. I understand. That is not true related to all schools. I once had a boss that spend one year teaching at a high school in Harlem. Based on the stories he told, that was a bad high school and the students that attended that high school were poorly educated. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > > > In article > >> >> > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > >> >> > > >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > >> >> > > > > In article > >> >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > >> >> > > > > > to teach ID > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > >> >> > > >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? > >> >> > > >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > >> >> > > > course, > >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > >> >> > > >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science > >> >> > > (self-admitted) > >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the > >> >> > > US > >> >> > > give up religious freedom? > >> >> > > >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people > >> >> > that > >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public > >> >> > schools. > >> >> > I > >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be > >> >> > taught > >> >> > in > >> >> > the public schools. > >> >> > >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > >> >> outright. Their loss. > >> >> > >> >> Martin > >> > > >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > >> > state school should quit. > >> > >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what > >> science > >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific > >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science > >> curriculum? > > > > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > > evolution to be taught. > > Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from > school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. > There's no need for an entire course on the subject. There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has 170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire course on evolution. Jason Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 jun, 14:10, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > (Jason) in > > <Jason-2506071804250...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > [snip] > > >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >school curriculum. > > And they do, in every state even. > > >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > >evolution to be taught. > > I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you > have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to > teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to > teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, > have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even > though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to > "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content > to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that > (non-existent) content. > > So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent > Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" > means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence > and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers > acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the > designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, > answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue > on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. > I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. > > -- > Matt Silberstein > > Do something today about the Darfur Genocide > > http://www.beawitness.orghttp://www.darfurgenocide.orghttp://www.savedarfur.org > > "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Very good reply, Matt. Bramble Quote
Guest bramble Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 jun, 14:52, James Burns <burns...@osu.edu> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > [in response to <hpk0831bpvg6k5opju35jsrineoqapd...@4ax.com>, > > Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> ] > > > So 68% of the people in Ohio want teachers to teach Evolution > > and ID. However, evolutionists want to control what teachers > > are able to teach. Unlike you, I believe the people that live > > in Ohio should be allowed to have a voice in deciding school > > curriculum. > > That 68% live under a constitution that protects the minority > from the majority. This includes protection from having > anyone's religion shoved down their throats by the government. > > Teaching your Biblical literalism as though it were science > in a government-mandated class qualifies absolutely as > "shoving your religion down my children's throat". This > is true not just for non-Christians, but for all the Christians > who are /not/ Biblical literalists. > > But you know this, Jason. You /show/ that you know this because > you do NOT argue against evolution by using the constitutional > argument -- which is a much stronger argument, if you can > swing it. > > Why did our Founders add the First Amendment to the US > Constitution? Because they saw the devastation brought > by the wars over established churches in Europe. Is that > devastation what you want for the United States? I don't > know about you specifically, Jason, but some of your > fellow Creationists are hoping for the End Times; war and > destruction is a sign that Christ is coming, for them. > > What percentage of Ohioans would want Intelligent > Design taught in their classrooms if they knew it > was part of a plan to give Pestilence, War, Famine, and > Death free rein in Ohio? > > Jim Burns good! Good reply. Bramble Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <r24283phccc0drikiliee30i3vlkfegfo6@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:01:43 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2506071801440001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > [snip] > > >I don't consider ID to be a lie. > > Ok. So tell us what ID means and tell us something about the > designers. Tell us how ID is not just creationism with the identity of > the designers kept hidden. You need to visit the Discovery Institute website. There are some differences between ID and creation science. I don't know all of the differences. I seem to recall reading that the IDers use the same figure as the evolutionists related to the age of the earth. The advocates of creation science believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182871741.750936.67250@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 01:05, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182811351.557959.227...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 25 Jun., 06:51, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <8oKdnUvAwJeWqeLbnZ2dnUVZ_qjin...@sti.net>, "David V." > > > > > > <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > > > I disagree. Evolution is a theory. > > > > > > > As I explained to you before, you do not know the definition of > > > > > the word 'theory,' and you got it wrong even after seeing it in a > > > > > dictionary. > > > > > > > > I looked up the word Evolution in my Webster's Dictionary..... > > > > > > > And you still don't get it. > > > > > > > Is this feigned ignorance on purpose? > > > > > > These two words were found on page 6 of the November 2004 issue of > > > > National Geographic: > > > > > > EVOLUTIONARY THEORY... > > > > > Yes, the theories that explain the fact of evolution, just like the > > > theory of gravity explains the fact of gravity. You do understand > > > that, don't you? Too bad you are too dishonest and cowardly to stop > > > lying about it. > > > > I re-read the article related to evolution that was published in the > > Nov/2004 issue of National Geographic. The author of the article made it > > clear that evolution was a theory. > > > > He made this statement on page 8: > > > > "Evolution is both a beautiful concept and an important one, more crucial > > nowadays to human welfare, to medical science, and to our understanding of > > the world than ever before. It's also deeply persuasive--a theory you can > > take to the bank...." > > > > Various members of this newsgroup appear to believe that evolution is a > > fact but the author of the article that was printed in National Geographic > > disagrees with you. > > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > No he doesn't, but no amount of explanation will get you to see it. > It is a theory; the theory that explains the fact. Equivocation is a > favorite, dishonest tactic used by trolls like you. We are in agreement--evolution is a theory. Yes, the theory explains the facts that are backed up with evidence. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <5eclp9F37r3knU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2506072141500001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1182825539.614729.233910@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 26, 8:29 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <m5l083tvho8aq1m7bplo13mv79ltbci...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > >> > > So, aside from you huge ego, why do you claim that humans are > >> > > special. > >> > > The physical evidence shows otherwise. > >> > > >> > Because the Bible states that humans are special. > >> > >> So, aside from your huge ego, what possible reason do you have for > >> believing anything in the Bible? You were asked before to find > >> something -anything- in the Bible which is objectively true and you > >> never answered (as usual). > >> > >> Martin > > > > Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart there is no God. > > If a fool can figure it out, what's your problem? My interpretation is difference: Only fools believe there is not God. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <xY7gi.7470$n9.4666@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2506072216280001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <obWdnSoYvoJc6x3bnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." > > <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > Gallup Poll: Two Thirds of Americans Believe God Created Them > >> > >> That's pretty sad, isn't it. In this supposedly advanced society > >> so many people still believe in a myth. It is really embarrassing > >> for our country. In no other advanced society, and many that > >> aren't so advanced, is there so much scientific ignorance as > >> there is here. 'Tis a very sad comment on our society. > > > > I disagree--I think that it's great news that so many people realize that > > God is watching over them and will even take them to heaven when they die. > > When Christian relatives and friends die, it's wonderful to realize that > > we will join them in heaven when we die. I am looking forward to seeing my > > parents and my sister when I make it to heaven. > > Jason > > Won't happen Jason. I disagree. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182874101.911955.323570@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 02:25, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182814064.453751.298...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 25 Jun., 21:39, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182799149.323449.320...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > snip > > > > > My point is that various people rejected the evidence based upon what they > > > > already believe.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > Since there was no evidence to reject, you have no point. There was > > > hearsay testimony. How could the doctor or the person cured possibly > > > know it was a miracle. This has been asked in various ways repeated, > > > and you are still ignoring it. > > > > I understand your question. The doctor knew that William Kent had been in > > a wheel chair for several years. The doctor had X-Rays and medical records > > related to the reason William Kent was disabled. That same doctor heard > > Willam Kent's testimony related to his healing. That doctor examined > > William Kent and determined that he was no longer disabled and could walk > > normally. The doctor believed the testimony of William Kent related to the > > healing. Can William Kent or the doctor provide PROOF that God healed > > William Kent that would satisfy athiests? The answer is NO. Can Willam > > Kent and his doctor provide testimonies and statements that will convince > > other Christians and myself that William Kent was healed? The answer is > > Yes. Atheists do not believe the testimony of William Kent because of > > their belief system. > > You have been told why we do not believe the testimony, which means > the above is a lie. > > >Many Christians will believe the testimony of William > > Kent because of our belief system. I doubt that anyone will understand my > > point.- > > Your point is that you have no evidence and you lie about it, making > it worse by accusing atheists of being as dishonest as you. Your belief system causes you to reject or not believe the testimonies of those people. My belief system causes me to accept and believe the testimonies. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182873694.135711.325360@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 02:06, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182813096.342711.38...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 25 Jun., 19:45, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182774522.884760.309...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On 25 Jun., 03:35, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <1182718201.208602.124...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com= > >, > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > > On 24 Jun., 03:43, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > In article <409r73h3qtei0prif7536hc0fu1h1p9...@4ax.com>, Free= > Lunch > > > > > > > > > snip > > > > > > > > > > > Jason has spoken. All Arabic-speaking Christians are worshi= > pping > > > > a false > > > > > > > > > god because they use the word "Allah" when referring to God. > > > > > > > > > > If they read their Bibles, they will know all about the true = > God.- > > > > Skjul =3D > > > > > > > tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > > > > > Their Bibles are written in Arabic, in which the equivalent to = > the > > > > > > > English word "God" is "Allah". That would apply to Christian A= > rabs of > > > > > > > all sects. Furthermore the first Christians did not call their= > god > > > > > > > "God", since "god" is an English word derived from German. App= > arently > > > > > > > you think that only the English language Bibles are valid. I a= > m not > > > > > > > surprised. > > > > > > > > No, I do not believe that only Bibles written in English are vali= > d=2E Even > > > > > > if Allah is the word that is used for God in Bibles written in > > > > > > Arabic--that is not a problem. After reading their Bibles, they w= > ill > > > > > > realize that the God mentioned in the Holy Bible is the true God > > and that > > > > > > the moon god is a false God. > > > > > > > Since they are Christians they already believe that. There is no > > > > > evidence in the Bible that it is true. > > > > > > > > For those people that believe Yahweh and Allah are the same God--= > please > > > > > > explain why there is a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every = > Mormon > > > > > > Mosque in the world? > > > > > > > Or why many people like mustard. You certainly do like non sequitu= > rs. > > > > > > You failed to answer the question. If you read the report, you will k= > now > > > > the reason there is a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim > > > > Mosque in the world is because the name Allah came from an Arabic word > > > > that had to do with the worship of the moon god in pre-Islamic Arabia. > > > > > Does that mean that Christian Arabs are not really Christians? You > > > are not making any sense - needless to say. > > > > I did not state that Christian Arabs are not really Christians. Christian > > Arabs are really Christians even if they call God by the name of Allah.- = > Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Good, you admit your entire argument has been invalid. Not true--The Christians Arabs will eventually understand (as a result of reading their Bibles) that God is vastly different than the moon god--which is a false God. If those Arabs call God "Allah" instead of Jehovah or Yahweh--that is not a problem. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <5eckphF387sloU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2506071757530001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <1182816528.662652.63130@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 26, 7:39 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1182812886.632371.303...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > On Jun 26, 2:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > In article <1182769286.811353.191...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > Martin > >> > > >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > > > On Jun 25, 1:43 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > > In article > >> > > >> > <1182748554.698371.315...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> > > >> > > > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > > On Jun 25, 12:32 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > > > > In article > >> > > >> > > > <1182735889.944828.206...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 9:35 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > In article > >> > > >> > <1182718201.208602.124...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > >> > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > On 24 Jun., 03:43, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > In article > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <409r73h3qtei0prif7536hc0fu1h1p9...@4ax.com>, > >> > > > Free Lunch > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snip > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason has spoken. All Arabic-speaking Christians > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > are > >> > > > worshipping > >> > > > > > > > a false > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > god because they use the word "Allah" when > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > referring > >> > to God. > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > If they read their Bibles, they will know all about > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > true God.- > >> > > > > > > > Skjul = > >> > > > > > > > > > > tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Their Bibles are written in Arabic, in which the > >> > equivalent to the > >> > > > > > > > > > > English word "God" is "Allah". That would apply to > >> > > > Christian Arabs of > >> > > > > > > > > > > all sects. Furthermore the first Christians did not > >> > > > > > > > > > > call > >> > > > their god > >> > > > > > > > > > > "God", since "god" is an English word derived from > >> > > > > > > > > > > German. > >> > > > Apparently > >> > > > > > > > > > > you think that only the English language Bibles are > >> > > > > > > > > > > valid. > >> > > > I am not > >> > > > > > > > > > > surprised. > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > No, I do not believe that only Bibles written in > >> > > > > > > > > > English are > >> > > > valid. Even > >> > > > > > > > > > if Allah is the word that is used for God in Bibles > > written in > >> > > > > > > > > > Arabic--that is not a problem. After reading their > >> > > > > > > > > > Bibles, > >> > they will > >> > > > > > > > > > realize that the God mentioned in the Holy Bible is > > the true God > >> > > > > > and that > >> > > > > > > > > > the moon god is a false God. > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > Why doesn't Christian sun worship render it a pagam > >> > > > > > > > > religion > >> > in your > >> > > > > > > > > eyes? > >> > > >> > > > > > > > I don't know any Christians that worship the sun. > >> > > >> > > > > > > So why do Christians go to church on SUNday? Why don't they > >> > > > > > > go to > >> > > > > > > church on Saturday which is, according to the old testament, > > the day > >> > > > > > > to worship God, ie the Sabbath? Why do Christians ignore the > >> > > > > > > commandment to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy? > >> > > >> > > > > > Some Christians (Seventh Day Adventist) do go to church on > >> > Saturday. Most > >> > > > > > Christians go to church on Sunday since it is the Lord's > >> > > > > > Day--the > >> > day that > >> > > > > > Jesus rose from the dead. > >> > > >> > > > > Read your Bible, Jason: Jesus was supposedly buried on a Friday > >> > > > > (the > >> > > > > day before the Jewish Sabbath) and it is said that he rose again > >> > > > > after > >> > > > > THREE DAYS. Three days after Friday is Monday, not Sunday, > >> > > > > Jason. No > >> > > > > wonder you only barely passed Math 101. > >> > > >> > > > I copied the following information from a book entitled, "The Bible > >> > > > Has > >> > > > the Answer" by Dr. Henry M. Morris > >> > > >> > > > "The worship on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor > >> > > > 16:2) > >> > > > follows the practice of the early Christians, who evidently began > >> > > > it in > >> > > > commemoration of Christ's resurrection on that day (Luke 24:1, John > >> > > > 20: > >> > > > 19, 26). That day is highly apropriate, since the completion of > > His great > >> > > > work of redemption was demonstred on that day...." > >> > > >> > > Thank you for proving that Henry Morris ia a liar whom you are > >> > > willing > >> > > to believe ahead of your own Bible. > >> > > >> > He mentioned scriptures from the Bible to support his statements. > >> > >> Which doesn't change the fact that the Bible disagrees with him. > >> First look at Mark: > >> > >> Mark 8:31: "And He [Jesus] began to teach them that the Son of Man > >> must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief > >> priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." > >> > >> Mark 9:31: "For He taught His disciples and said to them, `The Son of > >> Man is being delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him. > >> And after He is killed, He will rise the third day.' " > >> > >> So if Jesus was buried on "Good" Friday then there is no way he could > >> have risen on Sunday. And it was supposedly Friday, the day before > >> the Sabbath according to John and Luke: > >> > >> John 19:31. "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the > >> bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath [for that Sabbath > >> was a high day). > >> > >> Luke 23:56. The women ".. prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they > >> rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment " > >> > >> Some have argued that a "day" meant 12 hours but Matthew makes it > >> clear that "three days" includes "three nights": > >> > >> Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights in the heart of the > >> earth." > >> > >> Why are so you ignorant of what your Bible says, the book which you > >> claim to believe in? > >> > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition that > > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find out the > > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > Do you know where the word "Easter" came from? > > Think "Pagan spring fertility festival". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I found this at Wikipedia: Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a non-religious holiday. Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071108440001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >school curriculum. >> >> And they do, in every state even. >> >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >evolution to be taught. >> >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that >> (non-existent) content. >> >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. > >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which >has no Biblical content. Sorry, you must have missed the Dover trial. _Of Pandas and People_ was a creationist book. They actually replaced every mention of "God" with "Intelligent Design". And I see below that you are not able to maintain the deception all that long: you have already gone back to promoting creationism rather than ID. ID is creationism in a disguise intended to make it acceptable to the public schools. >Visit the Discovery Institute and read the >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. I have and they have no content. The new scam is "teach the controversy". Read how the Discovery Institute now says that they never wanted >If you want to >learn about the basics of ID and creation science-- Sounds like creationism to me. Creationism is religious in nature and multiple courts have said that it is wrong to teach it in the public schools. >read this book: >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss Does this book present anything about the who, what, when, where, how, or why of the designers? Does it talk about how many designers? Whether it was a single event or on-going? Is there any suggestion of how to test any of the ID related ideas? (To help you along, the answer to all of those is "no".) -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <f5rdef$ptg$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <f5j616$k7k$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> In article <854p7394n19d3tvg0c59i1a2co7f1asm3v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >>> <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:11:19 -0700, in alt.atheism > >>>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>>>> "The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of > >>>>> the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew > >>>>> Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same as the God > >>>>> of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted > >>>>> that no man can personally know Allah." > >>>> How can you quote someone who is so stupid that he complains that an > >>>> Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He really is not > >>>> worth your time, but your willingness to quote him makes it even clearer > >>>> that you have no intellectual standards and no interest in learning > >>>> about your religion. > >>> He did not state that an Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew > >>> writing. He clearly stated that "Allah" can not be found in the Hebrew Old > >>> Testament or the Greek New Testament. If you believe the actual name > >>> "Allah" is in the Bible, provide the verse. > >> SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH > >> > >> That was the point flying at shuttle speeds and altitude over your head. > >> > >> You won't find ANY Arabic words in Greek or Hebrew writing. You won't > >> find something like "Deutschland" buried in a strictly English writing > >> but you WILL find "Germany" in that same writing. Does that mean that > >> "Germany" and "Deutschland" are two different countries or that one > >> exists and the other does not? Unless your answer to both is "no" then > >> you are a total idiot. > >> > >> Likewise, "Yahweh/Jehovah" (Hebrew), "Allah" (Arabic), "Deus" (Latin), > >> "God" (English), "Theos" (Greek), "Gott" (Germany), "Dio" (Italian), > >> etc. all refer to the same god but simply in different languages but you > >> won't find "Dio" or "Gott" in English writings or "God" in Hebrew or > >> Greek writings. > > > > Yes, I understand all of that. > > No, you don't (as illustrated below.) > > > One point that keeps flying over your head > > No, it doesn't. > > > is that some experts believe that the name Allah came from an Arabic word > > that had to do with the worship of the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. I > > googled "moon god" and found lots of sites. I posted an article that I > > obtained from one of those sites. Of course, some of the sites indicated > > that other experts agree with your understanding of this subject. I > > suggest that you google "moon god" if you do not believe me. > > And I never claimed there wasn't at least one person who thought that. > If you searched long and hard enough, you'd find at least one "expert" > who says the earth is flat. The Quran, how-ever, talks about Abraham, > Jesus, etc. as being part of their religion. > > Clue-time: just the fact that someone claims something doesn't make it true. Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim mosque in the world? (Hint: the answer is in one of the above posts). Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> > > > ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > In article >> >> >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >> >> >> > > > course, >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the >> >> >> > > US >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> >> >> > schools. >> >> >> > I >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be >> >> >> > taught >> >> >> > in >> >> >> > the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> >> >> outright. Their loss. >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a >> >> > state school should quit. >> >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what >> >> science >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >> >> curriculum? >> > >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> > evolution to be taught. >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. > >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire >course on evolution. Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all life today evolved from a common ancestral population. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:30:41 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071130410001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <r24283phccc0drikiliee30i3vlkfegfo6@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:01:43 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2506071801440001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> >I don't consider ID to be a lie. >> >> Ok. So tell us what ID means and tell us something about the >> designers. Tell us how ID is not just creationism with the identity of >> the designers kept hidden. > >You need to visit the Discovery Institute website. I have, many times. If you can't answer the questions then you can't. I know that they can't or, at least, won't. >There are some >differences between ID and creation science. Gives us some examples. >I don't know all of the >differences. Do you know any? I mean, other than not calling the designers "God". >I seem to recall reading that the IDers use the same figure >as the evolutionists related to the age of the earth. The advocates of >creation science believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old. ID is old Earth creationism. It is still not science. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <f5re75$qn9$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <5p1r73lbicnj7uoldqqpqck12stoum4o1l@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:30:11 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2306071130120001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >>> In article <f5j616$k7k$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >>> <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jason wrote: > >>>>> In article <854p7394n19d3tvg0c59i1a2co7f1asm3v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >>>>> <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:11:19 -0700, in alt.atheism > >>>>>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>>>>>> "The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with worship of > >>>>>>> the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. "Allah" can not be found in > > the Hebrew > >>>>>>> Old Testament or the Greek New Testament. Allah is NOT the same > > as the God > >>>>>>> of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.... Allah is unknowable. He is so exalted > >>>>>>> that no man can personally know Allah." > >>>>>> How can you quote someone who is so stupid that he complains that an > >>>>>> Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew writing. He really is not > >>>>>> worth your time, but your willingness to quote him makes it even clearer > >>>>>> that you have no intellectual standards and no interest in learning > >>>>>> about your religion. > >>>>> He did not state that an Arabic word isn't found in Greek or Hebrew > >>>>> writing. He clearly stated that "Allah" can not be found in the > > Hebrew Old > >>>>> Testament or the Greek New Testament. If you believe the actual name > >>>>> "Allah" is in the Bible, provide the verse. > >>>> SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH > >>>> > >>>> That was the point flying at shuttle speeds and altitude over your head. > >>>> > >>>> You won't find ANY Arabic words in Greek or Hebrew writing. You won't > >>>> find something like "Deutschland" buried in a strictly English writing > >>>> but you WILL find "Germany" in that same writing. Does that mean that > >>>> "Germany" and "Deutschland" are two different countries or that one > >>>> exists and the other does not? Unless your answer to both is "no" then > >>>> you are a total idiot. > >>>> > >>>> Likewise, "Yahweh/Jehovah" (Hebrew), "Allah" (Arabic), "Deus" (Latin), > >>>> "God" (English), "Theos" (Greek), "Gott" (Germany), "Dio" (Italian), > >>>> etc. all refer to the same god but simply in different languages but you > >>>> won't find "Dio" or "Gott" in English writings or "God" in Hebrew or > >>>> Greek writings. > >>> Yes, I understand all of that. One point that keeps flying over your head > >>> is that some experts believe that the name Allah came from an Arabic word > >>> that had to do with the worship of the moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. I > >>> googled "moon god" and found lots of sites. I posted an article that I > >>> obtained from one of those sites. Of course, some of the sites indicated > >>> that other experts agree with your understanding of this subject. I > >>> suggest that you google "moon god" if you do not believe me. > >>> Jason > >> You aren't making a valid point. The source of the word doesn't matter > >> at all. Do you care that Yahweh/Jehovah did not originally refer to a > >> single universal god? Does Jehovah not exist because of that? > > > > I made the point because several people tried to convince me that Yahweh > > and Allah were the same God. That is NOT true. The above post provides > > evidence which indicates that the name Allah came from an Arabic word that > > had to do with the worship of the moon-God in pre-Islamic Arabia. > > No, it simply provides a claim. And one that's easily refuted. > > "And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the > moon. Prostrate not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate to Allah > Who created them, if you (really) worship Him. (Qur'an 41:37)" > > If Allah was the moon god, then why would the Quran say (in effect) > "don't bow down to the sun or to Allah, but bow down to Allah who > created Allah and the sun"? > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/moongod.html > > > If various people choose to continue to believe that Allah and Yahweh are > > the same God--that is their choice. > > And if you choose to remain willfully ignorant, that's your choice. Why is the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim Mosque in the world? Hint: the answer is in the first post which is above. Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 Bob T. wrote: > On Jun 25, 11:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article <1182770555.111873.24...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> On Jun 25, 2:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>> In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob >>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >>>>> On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>> In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob >>>>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>> Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. >>>>>>> <snip article> >>>>>>> Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nutcases >>>>>>> are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that >>>>>>> America was more like Iran. >>>>>>> - Bob T. >>>>>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. >>>>> Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious >>>>> fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim >>>>> religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would >>>>> be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking on >>>>> our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. >>>>> I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, >>>>> including freedom from religion. >>>>> - Bob T. >>>> I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take >>>> over the world--one country at a time. >>> Oddly enough I don't see that many Muslim missionaries today. How >>> many countries have muslims invaded over the past ten years? None. >>> How many muslim countries has the US invaded over the past ten years? >>> Two. >>> If at all possible, try to make statements actually supported by >>> facts, Jason. >>> Martin >> Good point--our troops will eventually leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If the >> leaders of either of those countries asked Bush to remove our troops from >> their countries--Bush would do it. > > <snicker> No, he wouldn't. He didn't listen when they asked him not to invade (at least in Iraq's case, he didn't. I'm not saying if the invasion was right or wrong; simply pointing out that it was against the wishes of the then-current leader(s) of the country.) so why would he listen when they ask him to leave? >> The Muslims from the middle east are in the process of taking over the >> Sudan. At present, they are committing genocide against the people in >> Darfur. Various experts are concerned that once they have total control >> over the Sudan--they will use the Sudan as a staging area to take over the >> surrounding African countries. You may want to google "genocide in Darfur" >> if you don't believe me. > > You have vastly over-simplified the situation in Darfur. Are you > aware that one of the causes of problems in Darfur is Global Warming? > It's true - you may want to google "darfur global warming" if you > don't believe me. > > - Bob T. >> Jason- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182873774.679677.7820@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 02:12, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182813471.492210.280...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 25 Jun., 20:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182770555.111873.24...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Mar= > tin > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 25, 2:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com= > >, "Bob > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > > > > > > > > > > <snip article> > > > > > > > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious > > nutcases > > > > > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wis= > h that > > > > > > > > > America was more like Iran. > > > > > > > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Chri= > stians. > > > > > > > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstiti= > ous > > > > > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under M= > uslim > > > > > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision= > would > > > > > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knoc= > king on > > > > > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > > > > > > > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of free= > dom, > > > > > > > including freedom from religion. > > > > > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > > > > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to= > take > > > > > > over the world--one country at a time. > > > > > > > Oddly enough I don't see that many Muslim missionaries today. How > > > > > many countries have muslims invaded over the past ten years? None. > > > > > How many muslim countries has the US invaded over the past ten year= > s? > > > > > Two. > > > > > > > If at all possible, try to make statements actually supported by > > > > > facts, Jason. > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > Good point--our troops will eventually leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If= > the > > > > leaders of either of those countries asked Bush to remove our troops = > from > > > > their countries--Bush would do it. > > > > > > The Muslims from the middle east are in the process of taking over the > > > > Sudan. > > > > > In the real world Moslems have controlled the Sudan for centuries. > > > > > At present, they are committing genocide against the people in > > > > Darfur. > > > > > People supposedly supported by the government of the Sudan are doing > > > that not Moslems as a group, and Darfur is part of the Sudan. > > > > > >Various experts are concerned that once they have total control > > > > over the Sudan--they will use the Sudan as a staging area to take ove= > r the > > > > surrounding African countries. > > > > > Name one of these experts. The Sudan is barely able to take over the > > > Sudan. Many of the surrounding countries have been Moslem for a > > > thousand years. Your experts seem to have missed a lot. > > > > > >You may want to google "genocide in Darfur" > > > > if you don't believe me. > > > > > Nobody believes you. I doubt that you believe you. > > > > The muslims from the middle east want to have total contrl of the Sudan. > > Upon request, I'll post an article about it.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselste= > gn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > The Moslems of the Middle East are not involved in the Sudan. You are > making =EDt up as you go along. Are there any Arab Muslims in Darfur? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182873224.668805.269050@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 01:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182812406.148531.4...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 25 Jun., 08:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "= > Bob > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com= > >, "=3D > > > Bob > > > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > > > > > > > > <snip article> > > > > > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nut= > cases > > > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish th= > at > > > > > > > America was more like Iran. > > > > > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christia= > ns. > > > > > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious > > > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim > > > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision wou= > ld > > > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking= > on > > > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > > > > > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, > > > > > including freedom from religion. > > > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take > > > > over the world--one country at a time. > > > > > It is also the goal of Christians. You said so. > > > > There is a BIG difference. If people refuse to become Muslims, the Muslims > > chop off thier heads. If people refuse to become Christians, we don't harm > > them in any way. Has any Christian ever harmed you or threatened you? > > > > > > > > > They are presently committing > > > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. > > > > > All the Moslems are doing that? Even the ones that are at war with > > > each other? Stop being such a fool. > > > > > After they take over control > > > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over > > > > surrounding countries. > > > > > The Sudan is a Muslem country and has been for many centuries. > > > > The Muslims from Middle east are taking over the Sudan. They are either > > killing the Black Muslims or forcing them to leave the country. > > The ones doing the killing are nomadic tribesmen in the Sudan. The > Blacks are animists and Christians. You are once again exposed as an > ignorant liar. > > > > > Google--Genocide in Darfur > > Try it yourself idiot. > > > > > > > > > > One expert believes they will eventually take over > > > > Spain without firing a shot. Mullahs are encouraging young followers = > to > > > > move to Spain. After 55% of the population of Spain are Muslims, they= > will > > > > vote only for Muslims. Those politicians will vote to establish the s= > ame > > > > sorts of laws they now have in Moslem countries. > > > > jason- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > Golly!- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Stop making up stuff. Are there any Arab Muslims in Darfur? Quote
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