Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <e5o283lotrdrd5vi4feve9upgb6gg585dh@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > Martin > >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> > > > In article > >> >> >> > > > > ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > > > In article > >> >> >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > >> >> >> > > > course, > >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science > >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) > >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the > >> >> >> > > US > >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people > >> >> >> > that > >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public > >> >> >> > schools. > >> >> >> > I > >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be > >> >> >> > taught > >> >> >> > in > >> >> >> > the public schools. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > >> >> >> outright. Their loss. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Martin > >> >> > > >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > >> >> > state school should quit. > >> >> > >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what > >> >> science > >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific > >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science > >> >> curriculum? > >> > > >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > >> > evolution to be taught. > >> > >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from > >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. > >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. > > > >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has > >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the > >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of > >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. > > Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or > Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. > > >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from > >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have > >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire > >course on evolution. > > Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. > We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to > learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all > life today evolved from a common ancestral population. I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in deciding education policy. That is far better than unelected evolutionists deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with how states are deciding education policy. Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <e5o283lotrdrd5vi4feve9upgb6gg585dh@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> >> > > > >> ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > In article >> >> >> >> > > > > ><Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >> >> >> >> > > > course, >> >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) >> >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why >should the >> >> >> >> > > US >> >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people >> >> >> >> > that >> >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> >> >> >> > schools. >> >> >> >> > I >> >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be >> >> >> >> > taught >> >> >> >> > in >> >> >> >> > the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> >> >> >> outright. Their loss. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a >> >> >> > state school should quit. >> >> >> >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what >> >> >> science >> >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >> >> >> curriculum? >> >> > >> >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >> > evolution to be taught. >> >> >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. >> > >> >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has >> >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the >> >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of >> >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. >> >> Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or >> Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. >> >> >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from >> >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have >> >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire >> >course on evolution. >> >> Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. >> We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to >> learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all >> life today evolved from a common ancestral population. > >I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in >deciding education policy. How nice. So does everyone else in this discussion, though. >That is far better than unelected evolutionists >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with >how states are deciding education policy. Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <f5rnk0$40j$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Bob T. wrote: > > On Jun 25, 11:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> In article <1182770555.111873.24...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> On Jun 25, 2:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>> In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > >>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>> In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > >>>>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>>>> Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > >>>>>>> <snip article> > >>>>>>> Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nutcases > >>>>>>> are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that > >>>>>>> America was more like Iran. > >>>>>>> - Bob T. > >>>>>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. > >>>>> Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious > >>>>> fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim > >>>>> religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would > >>>>> be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking on > >>>>> our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > >>>>> I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, > >>>>> including freedom from religion. > >>>>> - Bob T. > >>>> I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take > >>>> over the world--one country at a time. > >>> Oddly enough I don't see that many Muslim missionaries today. How > >>> many countries have muslims invaded over the past ten years? None. > >>> How many muslim countries has the US invaded over the past ten years? > >>> Two. > >>> If at all possible, try to make statements actually supported by > >>> facts, Jason. > >>> Martin > >> Good point--our troops will eventually leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If the > >> leaders of either of those countries asked Bush to remove our troops from > >> their countries--Bush would do it. > > > > <snicker> No, he wouldn't. > > He didn't listen when they asked him not to invade (at least in Iraq's > case, he didn't. I'm not saying if the invasion was right or wrong; > simply pointing out that it was against the wishes of the then-current > leader(s) of the country.) so why would he listen when they ask him to > leave? In Iraq--the current leaders are different than the former leaders. If the current leaders asked Bush to remove the troops--I believe Bush would remove the troops. I seem to recall that the citzens voted on this issue about a year ago and they voted to keep our troops in their country. They had to have their finger prints tested and they proudly held up their inked fingers to the cameras to show they had freely voted. > > > >> The Muslims from the middle east are in the process of taking over the > >> Sudan. At present, they are committing genocide against the people in > >> Darfur. Various experts are concerned that once they have total control > >> over the Sudan--they will use the Sudan as a staging area to take over the > >> surrounding African countries. You may want to google "genocide in Darfur" > >> if you don't believe me. > > > > You have vastly over-simplified the situation in Darfur. Are you > > aware that one of the causes of problems in Darfur is Global Warming? > > It's true - you may want to google "darfur global warming" if you > > don't believe me. > > > > - Bob T. > >> Jason- Hide quoted text - > >> > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <4cp2831rq5i8fqa37g7o1h82oc5qi3b2en@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > >In article <e5o283lotrdrd5vi4feve9upgb6gg585dh@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) in > >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> >> > Martin > >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > > In article > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > > > In article > >> >> >> >> > > > > > ><Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >> >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > >> >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > >> >> >> >> > > > course, > >> >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science > >> >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) > >> >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why > >should the > >> >> >> >> > > US > >> >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people > >> >> >> >> > that > >> >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public > >> >> >> >> > schools. > >> >> >> >> > I > >> >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be > >> >> >> >> > taught > >> >> >> >> > in > >> >> >> >> > the public schools. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > >> >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > >> >> >> >> outright. Their loss. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Martin > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > >> >> >> > state school should quit. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what > >> >> >> science > >> >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific > >> >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science > >> >> >> curriculum? > >> >> > > >> >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >> >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > >> >> > evolution to be taught. > >> >> > >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from > >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. > >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. > >> > > >> >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has > >> >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the > >> >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of > >> >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. > >> > >> Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or > >> Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. > >> > >> >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from > >> >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have > >> >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire > >> >course on evolution. > >> > >> Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. > >> We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to > >> learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all > >> life today evolved from a common ancestral population. > > > >I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in > >deciding education policy. > > How nice. So does everyone else in this discussion, though. > > >That is far better than unelected evolutionists > >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with > >how states are deciding education policy. > > Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? I don't believe there should have been a court case. It's my opinion that evolutionists should NOT take states to court if they decide to teach ID. The evolutionists should allow the representatives in each state to determine education policy. Education policy should not be determined by unelected evolutionists. For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. I don't know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I doubt it--but am only guessing. Jason Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:28:17 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071228180001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <4cp2831rq5i8fqa37g7o1h82oc5qi3b2en@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <e5o283lotrdrd5vi4feve9upgb6gg585dh@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > In article ><1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > > > > In article >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >> ><Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology >classes. Of >> >> >> >> >> > > > course, >> >> >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> >> >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) >> >> >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why >> >should the >> >> >> >> >> > > US >> >> >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the >people >> >> >> >> >> > that >> >> >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> >> >> >> >> > schools. >> >> >> >> >> > I >> >> >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects >should be >> >> >> >> >> > taught >> >> >> >> >> > in >> >> >> >> >> > the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> >> >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> >> >> >> >> outright. Their loss. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established >curriculum in a >> >> >> >> > state school should quit. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what >> >> >> >> science >> >> >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> >> >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >> >> >> >> curriculum? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >> >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want >both ID and >> >> >> > evolution to be taught. >> >> >> >> >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from >> >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. >> >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. >> >> > >> >> >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has >> >> >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the >> >> >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of >> >> >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. >> >> >> >> Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or >> >> Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. >> >> >> >> >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from >> >> >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have >> >> >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire >> >> >course on evolution. >> >> >> >> Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. >> >> We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to >> >> learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all >> >> life today evolved from a common ancestral population. >> > >> >I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in >> >deciding education policy. >> >> How nice. So does everyone else in this discussion, though. >> >> >That is far better than unelected evolutionists >> >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with >> >how states are deciding education policy. >> >> Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? > > >I don't believe there should have been a court case. That is not a legal argument. > It's my opinion that >evolutionists should NOT take states to court if they decide to teach ID. Why do you wish to deny people a say in how the government works? >The evolutionists should allow the representatives in each state to >determine education policy. Do you disagree with all court challenges to laws? Or is it only evolutionists who should be denied the protection of the law? >Education policy should not be determined by >unelected evolutionists. It was a Republican judge, nominated by Bush, that ruled in the Dover case. >For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. You keep confusing "court" with "evolutionist". And in Ohio the problem was that there is no ID curriculum to teach. Have you checked the Discovery Institute yet on this? >I don't >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I doubt >it--but am only guessing. You really should try to learn something about the law rather than guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071137190001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <xY7gi.7470$n9.4666@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2506072216280001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <obWdnSoYvoJc6x3bnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." >> > <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> > Gallup Poll: Two Thirds of Americans Believe God Created Them >> >> >> >> That's pretty sad, isn't it. In this supposedly advanced society >> >> so many people still believe in a myth. It is really embarrassing >> >> for our country. In no other advanced society, and many that >> >> aren't so advanced, is there so much scientific ignorance as >> >> there is here. 'Tis a very sad comment on our society. >> > >> > I disagree--I think that it's great news that so many people realize >> > that >> > God is watching over them and will even take them to heaven when they >> > die. >> > When Christian relatives and friends die, it's wonderful to realize >> > that >> > we will join them in heaven when we die. I am looking forward to seeing >> > my >> > parents and my sister when I make it to heaven. >> > Jason >> >> Won't happen Jason. > > I disagree. You can disagree all you want, it still isn't going to happen. The concept of heaven and hell is another logical reason not to believe the bible. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > snip > Martin, > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition that > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find out the > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 03:00, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <hgn083dgbnu6f7r3cme0dga2qu8gkgf...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:02:05 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-2506071702050...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <hpk0831bpvg6k5opju35jsrineoqapd...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:17:54 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> ... > > > >> >Overwhelming Support in Ohio For Teaching Both Sides of Evolution, Zogby > > >> >Poll Shows > > > >> >By: Staff > > >> >Discovery Institute > > >> >February 13, 2006 > > > >> >By more than a 3-to-1 margin, Ohio residents strongly support public > > >> >school teachers presenting both the evidence for evolution, as well as the > > >> >evidence challenging the theory, according to a new poll by Zogby > > >> >International released today. > > > >> > Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > > In article > > >> > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > >> > > > > In article > > >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > > >> > > > > > to teach ID > > > >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... > > > >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > > > >> > > > > So what's your problem? > > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > > >> > > > course, > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > > > >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science (self-admitted) > > >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the US > > >> > > give up religious freedom? > > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people that > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public schools. > > >> > I > > >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be taught > > >> > in > > >> > the public schools. > > > >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > > >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > >> outright. Their loss. > > > >> Martin > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > > > state school should quit. > > > You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what science > > is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific > > illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science curriculum? > > No-- In that case what you say below must be wrong. >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > evolution to be taught.- And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not determine the science curriculum. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 03:08, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <0un083t99o4tjpnumbe9cq80h2m2leb...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:45:16 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-2506071245160...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <1182798953.920546.232...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > >T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 25, 11:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > In article <1182770555.111873.24...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> > > On Jun 25, 2:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > > In article > > <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > > > > > >> > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > >> > > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > > > > In article > > ><1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > >> > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > > >> > > > > > > <snip article> > > > >> > > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious > > >nutcases > > >> > > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly > wish that > > >> > > > > > > America was more like Iran. > > > >> > > > > > > - Bob T. > > > >> > > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were > Christians. > > > >> > > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious > > >> > > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under > Muslim > > >> > > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you > envision would > > >> > > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition > knocking on > > >> > > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > > > >> > > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, > > >> > > > > including freedom from religion. > > > >> > > > > - Bob T. > > > >> > > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are > to take > > >> > > > over the world--one country at a time. > > > >> > > Oddly enough I don't see that many Muslim missionaries today. How > > >> > > many countries have muslims invaded over the past ten years? None. > > >> > > How many muslim countries has the US invaded over the past ten years? > > >> > > Two. > > > >> > > If at all possible, try to make statements actually supported by > > >> > > facts, Jason. > > > >> > > Martin > > > >> > Good point--our troops will eventually leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If the > > >> > leaders of either of those countries asked Bush to remove our troops from > > >> > their countries--Bush would do it. > > > >> <snicker> No, he wouldn't. > > > >> > The Muslims from the middle east are in the process of taking over the > > >> > Sudan. At present, they are committing genocide against the people in > > >> > Darfur. Various experts are concerned that once they have total control > > >> > over the Sudan--they will use the Sudan as a staging area to take > over the > > >> > surrounding African countries. You may want to google "genocide in > Darfur" > > >> > if you don't believe me. > > > >> You have vastly over-simplified the situation in Darfur. Are you > > >> aware that one of the causes of problems in Darfur is Global Warming? > > >> It's true - you may want to google "darfur global warming" if you > > >> don't believe me. > > > >> - Bob T. > > >> > Jason- Hide quoted text - > > > >> > - Show quoted text - > > > >Global warming is a problem in many countries. The major reason that > > >thousands of people that once lived in Darfur are now dead is not because > > >of global warming. It's because those people were MURDERED by Muslims from > > >the middle east. Google "genocide in Darfur". > > >jason > > > Those murder victims in Darfur were Moslem. > > Yes--that is true--they were black Muslims that were killed by Muslims > from the Middle east.- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 03:27, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <mip083tkkqhcp757tku7i60mga5nmhp...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:49:48 -0700, in alt.atheism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-2506071749490...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <r0n083d7l69bkbc3m7p60j3l60hlme9...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:46:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > >> <Jason-2506071046360...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >In article <stqv7396nu5e3jsncsntpea7hi1dvcr...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > >> ><n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:28:42 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> >> >On 25 Jun., 03:35, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> ... > > >> >> >> For those people that believe Yahweh and Allah are the same > God--please > > >> >> >> explain why there is a symbol of a crescent moon on top of > every Mormon > > >> >> >> Mosque in the world? > > > >> >> Sure, Jason. Just as soon as you tell me where I might find a > > >> >> Mormon mosque. <G> > > > >> >Sorry--I meant Muslim Mosque. > > > >> Which Mosque would you be willing to go into and tell the worshippers > > >> that they do not worship the God of Abraham? What evidence can you > > >> provide them that you are right and that Mohammed lied to them? > > > >Hubal and Allah the Moon God? > > > >Islam: Truth or Myth? start page > > > >Introduction to basic facts of history: > > > > 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The > > >crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far > > >back as 2000 BC. > > > 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. > > > 3. This Hubal was a moon god. > > > 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was > > >placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may > > >in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret > > >at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque > > >throughout the world: > > > > About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr > > >bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol > > >called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of > > >the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar > > >(Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim) > > > > 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper > > >name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god". > > >Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan > > >god as "al-ilah". > > > 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began > > >promoting his new religion in 610 AD. > > > 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah". > > > 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name > > >"Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah". > > > 9. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the > > >Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms. > > > 10. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is > > >derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. > > > 11. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in > paganism. > > > > Hubal the moon god of the Kabah > > > > Allah the moon god of the Kabah > > > >Remnants of pagan Moon god worship in the Koran > > > >Pre-Islamic Origin of the word Allah > > > >Photogallery of the ancient history of Moon god worship > > > >Modern usage of moon god symbols in Islam today. > > > That does not show that they worship a moon god. > > > You wouldn't persuade anyone that you know what you are talking about. > > Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque?- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <fvq2835jq1l5hnd19r2chtq2071ckhaimt@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:28:17 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2606071228180001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > >In article <4cp2831rq5i8fqa37g7o1h82oc5qi3b2en@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) in > >> <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > >> >In article <e5o283lotrdrd5vi4feve9upgb6gg585dh@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >> >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> >> >> > Martin > >> >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > In article > ><1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > > > In article > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >> >> ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > In article > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >> ><Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology > >classes. Of > >> >> >> >> >> > > > course, > >> >> >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science > >> >> >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) > >> >> >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why > >> >should the > >> >> >> >> >> > > US > >> >> >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the > >people > >> >> >> >> >> > that > >> >> >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public > >> >> >> >> >> > schools. > >> >> >> >> >> > I > >> >> >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects > >should be > >> >> >> >> >> > taught > >> >> >> >> >> > in > >> >> >> >> >> > the public schools. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > >> >> >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > >> >> >> >> >> outright. Their loss. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Martin > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established > >curriculum in a > >> >> >> >> > state school should quit. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what > >> >> >> >> science > >> >> >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific > >> >> >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science > >> >> >> >> curriculum? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >> >> >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want > >both ID and > >> >> >> > evolution to be taught. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from > >> >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. > >> >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. > >> >> > > >> >> >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has > >> >> >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the > >> >> >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of > >> >> >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. > >> >> > >> >> Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or > >> >> Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. > >> >> > >> >> >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from > >> >> >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have > >> >> >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire > >> >> >course on evolution. > >> >> > >> >> Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. > >> >> We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to > >> >> learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all > >> >> life today evolved from a common ancestral population. > >> > > >> >I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in > >> >deciding education policy. > >> > >> How nice. So does everyone else in this discussion, though. > >> > >> >That is far better than unelected evolutionists > >> >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with > >> >how states are deciding education policy. > >> > >> Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? > > > > > >I don't believe there should have been a court case. > > That is not a legal argument. > > > It's my opinion that > >evolutionists should NOT take states to court if they decide to teach ID. > > Why do you wish to deny people a say in how the government works? > > >The evolutionists should allow the representatives in each state to > >determine education policy. > > Do you disagree with all court challenges to laws? Or is it only > evolutionists who should be denied the protection of the law? > > >Education policy should not be determined by > >unelected evolutionists. > > It was a Republican judge, nominated by Bush, that ruled in the Dover > case. > > >For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of > >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. > > You keep confusing "court" with "evolutionist". And in Ohio the > problem was that there is no ID curriculum to teach. Have you checked > the Discovery Institute yet on this? > > >I don't > >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their > >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I doubt > >it--but am only guessing. > > You really should try to learn something about the law rather than > guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not > votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? I don't hate America. People like yourself appear to me to want judges to determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in that Dover case elected or appointed? I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy and not judges or evolutionists. People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <J1egi.15745$19.7282@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2606071137190001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <xY7gi.7470$n9.4666@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-2506072216280001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <obWdnSoYvoJc6x3bnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." > >> > <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >> > Gallup Poll: Two Thirds of Americans Believe God Created Them > >> >> > >> >> That's pretty sad, isn't it. In this supposedly advanced society > >> >> so many people still believe in a myth. It is really embarrassing > >> >> for our country. In no other advanced society, and many that > >> >> aren't so advanced, is there so much scientific ignorance as > >> >> there is here. 'Tis a very sad comment on our society. > >> > > >> > I disagree--I think that it's great news that so many people realize > >> > that > >> > God is watching over them and will even take them to heaven when they > >> > die. > >> > When Christian relatives and friends die, it's wonderful to realize > >> > that > >> > we will join them in heaven when we die. I am looking forward to seeing > >> > my > >> > parents and my sister when I make it to heaven. > >> > Jason > >> > >> Won't happen Jason. > > > > I disagree. > > You can disagree all you want, it still isn't going to happen. The concept > of heaven and hell is another logical reason not to believe the bible. We will both know for sure on the day that we die. What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like this one: I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182887737.836228.164980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > snip > > > Martin, > > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition that > > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find out the > > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. This is from Wikipedia: Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a non-religious holiday. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 07:27, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article > <DipthotDipthot-1DEF3B.19130325062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > In article > > <Jason-2506071217400...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people that > > > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public schools > > > Scientific truth is not a popularity contest. > > > The masses, on average, are not too bright. Do you want that kind of > > mediocre thinking foisted on our young? > > > Of course you do. And that's called thought control. > > I would much prefer the citizens of Ohio electing politicians that will do > what the citizens of Ohio want them to do related to education policy than > to have a group of unelected evolutionists deciding education policy. > jason How about unelected doctors deciding what to teach in state medical schools even if it disagrees with what the majority of people think should be taught? - just another question for you to ignore. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 07:37, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182828176.211047.202...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 26, 9:05 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1182816781.073818.317...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 26, 8:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > Martin > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > > > > > > > > > > > to teach ID > > > > > > > > > > > But it is legal to do that... > > > > > > > > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > > > > > > > > > > > So what's your problem? > > > > > > > > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > > > course, > > > > > > > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > > > > > > > > > Why should a person with no understanding of science > (self-admitted) > > > > > > > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why > should the US > > > > > > > > give up religious freedom? > > > > > > > > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the > people that > > > > > > > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public > schools. I > > > > > > > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be > > > taught in > > > > > > > the public schools. > > > > > > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > > > > > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > > > > > outright. Their loss. > > > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > > > > > state school should quit. > > > > > Leaving you with no qualified teachers and an ignorant population. > > > > Which explains everything. > > > > > No teacher in good conscience knowingly "teaches" lies. > > > > You are assumming that most of the qualified teachers would leave. That > > > may or may not be true. They would lose their retirement pay. > > > To hell with retirement pay. I'd devote my time to a lawsuit against > > those who forced me to quit because they wanted me to lie to > > students. And I'd win. And there'd be thousands of teachers who > > would do likewise. They can't force teachers to lie to their > > students. It would be a violation of their constitution rights. > > > Martin > > It's now easy for me to understand why the home schooling movement is > growing and the reason why so many large churches are now starting their > own Christian schools. Many of the rich people in this town send their > children to a Catholic prep school. I don't blame all of those parents for > giving up on the public school system. > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182888250.489184.198890@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > >news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > In article > > > >> > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > >> > > > > In article > > > >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > > > >> > > > > > to teach ID > > > > > >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... > > > > > >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > > > > > >> > > > > So what's your problem? > > > > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > > > >> > > > course, > > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > > > > > >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science (self-admitted) > > > >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the US > > > >> > > give up religious freedom? > > > > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people that > > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public schools. > > > >> > I > > > >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be taught > > > >> > in > > > >> > the public schools. > > > > > >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > > > >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > > >> outright. Their loss. > > > > > >> Martin > > > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > > > > state school should quit. > > > > > You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what science > > > is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific > > > illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science curriculum? > > > > No-- > > In that case what you say below must be wrong. > > >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > > evolution to be taught.- > > And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not > determine the science curriculum. I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. I believe that elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected evolutionists. Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes more sense than evolution. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 08:08, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > csmonitor.com - The Christian Science Monitor Online > from the July 14, 2004 edition -http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0714/p09s02-coop.html > Racism at root of Sudan's Darfur crisis > By Makau Mutua > > BUFFALO, N.Y. - The visits by US Secretary of State Colin Powell and UN > Secretary-General Kofi Annan to Sudan last week gave hope that the > genocide in Darfur can be arrested before an entire people is obliterated. > > But anyone - including Mr. Powell and Mr. Annan - interested in averting > more tragedy there must understand that Darfur is not an accidental > apocalypse of mass slaughters, enslavement, pillage, and ethnic cleansing. > The Darfur pogrom is part of a historic continuum in which successive Arab > governments have sought to entirely destroy black Africans in this > biracial nation. > > Darfur is not a mere humanitarian disaster that access by international > relief agencies can reverse. The raison d' Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 08:59, Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 26, 2:57 pm, Martin <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 26, 2:08 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > csmonitor.com - The Christian Science Monitor Online > > > Why do you never go to reputible sources and instead go to sources > > that you know full well will lie to you and tell you what you want to > > know? I guess it's because you're an idiot. > > or rather "what you want to hear and believe" > > Martin The article contradicts him actually. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 In article <1182888536.294395.68200@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 03:27, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <mip083tkkqhcp757tku7i60mga5nmhp...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:49:48 -0700, in alt.atheism > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > <Jason-2506071749490...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >In article <r0n083d7l69bkbc3m7p60j3l60hlme9...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:46:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > >> <Jason-2506071046360...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >> >In article <stqv7396nu5e3jsncsntpea7hi1dvcr...@4ax.com>, John Baker > > > >> ><n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > > > >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:28:42 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >> >> >On 25 Jun., 03:35, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> ... > > > >> >> >> For those people that believe Yahweh and Allah are the same > > God--please > > > >> >> >> explain why there is a symbol of a crescent moon on top of > > every Mormon > > > >> >> >> Mosque in the world? > > > > > >> >> Sure, Jason. Just as soon as you tell me where I might find a > > > >> >> Mormon mosque. <G> > > > > > >> >Sorry--I meant Muslim Mosque. > > > > > >> Which Mosque would you be willing to go into and tell the worshippers > > > >> that they do not worship the God of Abraham? What evidence can you > > > >> provide them that you are right and that Mohammed lied to them? > > > > > >Hubal and Allah the Moon God? > > > > > >Islam: Truth or Myth? start page > > > > > >Introduction to basic facts of history: > > > > > > 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The > > > >crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as = > far > > > >back as 2000 BC. > > > > 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. > > > > 3. This Hubal was a moon god. > > > > 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal w= > as > > > >placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This= > may > > > >in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every mina= > ret > > > >at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque > > > >throughout the world: > > > > > > About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr > > > >bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol > > > >called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deitie= > s of > > > >the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sar= > war > > > >(Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim) > > > > > > 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a pr= > oper > > > >name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the go= > d". > > > >Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan > > > >god as "al-ilah". > > > > 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began > > > >promoting his new religion in 610 AD. > > > > 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah". > > > > 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name > > > >"Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah". > > > > 9. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at t= > he > > > >Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms. > > > > 10. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam= > is > > > >derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. > > > > 11. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in > > paganism. > > > > > > Hubal the moon god of the Kabah > > > > > > Allah the moon god of the Kabah > > > > > >Remnants of pagan Moon god worship in the Koran > > > > > >Pre-Islamic Origin of the word Allah > > > > > >Photogallery of the ancient history of Moon god worship > > > > > >Modern usage of moon god symbols in Islam today. > > > > > That does not show that they worship a moon god. > > > > > You wouldn't persuade anyone that you know what you are talking about. > > > > Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque?- Skjul= > tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Why do Christians celebrate a holiday named after a pagan goddess? You failed to answer the above question. I don't know if that is true. If it is true, I don't know the reason. I am not an expert related to Bible history. A Jehovahs Witness told me something about the origin of Christmas. I don't worship any pagan goddesses. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 16:02, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > <gudl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1182812811.996798.30050@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > > On 25 Jun., 17:34, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote > > >> snip > > >> > If they read their Bibles, they will know all about the true God. > > >> What makes your god the "true" one? > >> -- > > > The Bible says so of course. > > Yeah, I've heard that, but I'm not buying it ;P > -- > Robyn > Resident Witchypoo > BAAWA Knight! > #1557 What about a nice sea-side cottage in Tibet? Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:22:01 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071322010001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <1182888250.489184.198890@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > >news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >Martin >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> > > > In article >> > > >> > > > ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> > >> > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > In article >> > > >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > > >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> > > >> > > > > > to teach ID >> > >> > > >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> > >> > > >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> > >> > > >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> > >> > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >> > > >> > > > course, >> > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> > >> > > >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >(self-admitted) >> > > >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should >the US >> > > >> > > give up religious freedom? >> > >> > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the >people that >> > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >schools. >> > > >> > I >> > > >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should >be taught >> > > >> > in >> > > >> > the public schools. >> > >> > > >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> > > >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> > > >> outright. Their loss. >> > >> > > >> Martin >> > >> > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a >> > > > state school should quit. >> > >> > > You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what >science >> > > is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> > > illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >curriculum? >> > >> > No-- >> >> In that case what you say below must be wrong. >> >> >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> > evolution to be taught.- >> >> And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not >> determine the science curriculum. > >I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. Right, that is why both sides have expert witnesses. >I believe that >elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected >evolutionists. You misspelled judge yet again. >Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be >taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes >more sense than evolution. Your opinion does not outweigh facts. I don't want ID taught because it is either very bad science or religious teachings and I don't want either of those in the public schools. I don't think that any school should teach bad science, but private schools do have some freedom. You really should read the Dover decision. You may well be concerned about learning something about the topic, but publicizing ignorance is even worse. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 18:17, "No Reply" Okay. Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:10:53 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071310530001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <fvq2835jq1l5hnd19r2chtq2071ckhaimt@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:28:17 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606071228180001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <4cp2831rq5i8fqa37g7o1h82oc5qi3b2en@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >In article <e5o283lotrdrd5vi4feve9upgb6gg585dh@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> >> >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> >> >> > In article ><1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > In article >> ><1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > In article >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >> >> ><Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology >> >classes. Of >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > course, >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> >> >> >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) >> >> >> >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why >> >> >should the >> >> >> >> >> >> > > US >> >> >> >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the >> >people >> >> >> >> >> >> > that >> >> >> >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the >public >> >> >> >> >> >> > schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> > I >> >> >> >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects >> >should be >> >> >> >> >> >> > taught >> >> >> >> >> >> > in >> >> >> >> >> >> > the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the >Earth was >> >> >> >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> >> >> >> >> >> outright. Their loss. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established >> >curriculum in a >> >> >> >> >> > state school should quit. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public >dictate what >> >> >> >> >> science >> >> >> >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> >> >> >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >> >> >> >> >> curriculum? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in >deciding >> >> >> >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want >> >both ID and >> >> >> >> > evolution to be taught. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from >home from >> >> >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken >care of. >> >> >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has >> >> >> >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the >> >> >> >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A >summary of >> >> >> >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. >> >> >> >> >> >> Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or >> >> >> Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. >> >> >> >> >> >> >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from >> >> >> >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the >parents have >> >> >> >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire >> >> >> >course on evolution. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. >> >> >> We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to >> >> >> learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all >> >> >> life today evolved from a common ancestral population. >> >> > >> >> >I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in >> >> >deciding education policy. >> >> >> >> How nice. So does everyone else in this discussion, though. >> >> >> >> >That is far better than unelected evolutionists >> >> >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with >> >> >how states are deciding education policy. >> >> >> >> Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? >> > >> > >> >I don't believe there should have been a court case. >> >> That is not a legal argument. >> >> > It's my opinion that >> >evolutionists should NOT take states to court if they decide to teach ID. >> >> Why do you wish to deny people a say in how the government works? >> >> >The evolutionists should allow the representatives in each state to >> >determine education policy. >> >> Do you disagree with all court challenges to laws? Or is it only >> evolutionists who should be denied the protection of the law? >> >> >Education policy should not be determined by >> >unelected evolutionists. >> >> It was a Republican judge, nominated by Bush, that ruled in the Dover >> case. >> >> >For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of >> >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. >> >> You keep confusing "court" with "evolutionist". And in Ohio the >> problem was that there is no ID curriculum to teach. Have you checked >> the Discovery Institute yet on this? >> >> >I don't >> >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their >> >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I doubt >> >it--but am only guessing. >> >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? > >I don't hate America. You hate our Constitution and you hate our legal system. >People like yourself appear to me to want judges to >determine the education policy in the various states. I want education policy to conform to the Constitution. You don't. >Was the judge in >that Dover case elected or appointed? He was appointed by Bush. I am actually amazed that you don't know how federal judges get their position, but you want to lecture us on how things should be. >I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy and >not judges or evolutionists. I understand that you don't want to give civil rights to evolutionists. >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. > Do they have any idea what to teach about ID? Do you? Don't give me a hand wave about the Discovery Institute, tell me what there is to teach about ID. Oh, wait, that's right, you agree with the judge that ID is creationism and you want the government to promote your religion. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 On 26 Jun., 20:10, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182873615.385634.169...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On 26 Jun., 02:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.ne= > > t>, > > > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > > > > > > > > > to teach ID > > > > > > > > > But it is legal to do that... > > > > > > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > > > > > > > > > So what's your problem? > > > > > > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of co= > > urse, > > > > > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > > > > > > > Why should a person with no understanding of science (self-admitted) > > > > > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the US > > > > > > give up religious freedom? > > > > > > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people that > > > > > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public schools= > > . I > > > > > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be taug= > > ht in > > > > > the public schools. > > > > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > > > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > > > outright. Their loss. > > > > > Martin > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > > > state school should quit.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > I didn't think you would answer the question. Apparently you are > > afraid of it just like all the others you ignore. > > I did provide an answer--perhaps you were not satisfied with my > answer--but I did provide an answer.- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
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