Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:55:57 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606071655580001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > >> >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people >> >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the >> >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. > > >> Do they have any idea what to teach about ID? Do you? Don't give me a >> hand wave about the Discovery Institute, tell me what there is to >> teach about ID. >> >> Oh, wait, that's right, you agree with the judge that ID is >> creationism and you want the government to promote your religion. > >I would prefer that laws be made by legislators that are elected by people >than be made as a result of "legislation my mandate (judicial fiat). So you object to the American Constitutional form of government. I don't. >In the Dover case, that state law was made by judicial fiat instead of by >the legislators that were elected by the citizens of Ohio. Nope, the judge ruled that the law (well, policy) passed by the school board (since voted out of office and the policy changed) violated the U.S. Constitution. That is how America works and that is how it has always worked. Calling it "making law" does not change that. >Yes, the proper term was probably something like "judicial ruling" or >"court decision". However, in my opinion it was a law made by judicial >fiat. Your ignorance of the American judicial system does not forgive you: you have the obligation to know what you are talking about. How about this: what if the local school board said they would not teach people with black skins? Would that be acceptable to you? If not, what remedy would you propose? How about if they refused to teach women? Or refused to teach non-Christians? Of what if they decided to teach Catholicism in the public schools? In your mind what would stop such laws? -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071108440001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >school curriculum. >> >> And they do, in every state even. >> >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >evolution to be taught. >> >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that >> (non-existent) content. >> >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. > >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which >has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read the >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want to >learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss > Jason, you keep ignoring that Pandas does not have a shred of scientific content to support ID/Creationism and that it was a Creationist textbook first. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:30:41 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071130410001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <r24283phccc0drikiliee30i3vlkfegfo6@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:01:43 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2506071801440001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> >I don't consider ID to be a lie. >> >> Ok. So tell us what ID means and tell us something about the >> designers. Tell us how ID is not just creationism with the identity of >> the designers kept hidden. > >You need to visit the Discovery Institute website. I have. >There are some >differences between ID and creation science. No, just some word games. ID is creationism. Neither one is science, they are religious doctrine. >I don't know all of the differences. ID folks know that Young Earth Creationism is totally loony, but they still are teaching religious doctrines. >I seem to recall reading that the IDers use the same figure >as the evolutionists related to the age of the earth. The advocates of >creation science believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Not all anti-science creationists are Young Earth Creationists. YECs have absolutely no excuse to be telling the lies they tell. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> > > > ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > In article >> >> >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >> >> >> > > > course, >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the >> >> >> > > US >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> >> >> > schools. >> >> >> > I >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be >> >> >> > taught >> >> >> > in >> >> >> > the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> >> >> outright. Their loss. >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a >> >> > state school should quit. >> >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what >> >> science >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >> >> curriculum? >> > >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> > evolution to be taught. >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. > >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. Jason, you are so easy to con that even the stupidest religious teacher can get you to believe the biggest lie. Pandas and People is not a science book. If you had ever read it and learned anything about science, you would know that the authors of P&P are liars. >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire >course on evolution. Evolution is about the change in life over time. You have been corrected on that about a thousand times, yet still seem incapable of learning such a simple fact. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <e5o283lotrdrd5vi4feve9upgb6gg585dh@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2456@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308140@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > Martin >> >> >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > In article >> >> >> >> > > > >> ><DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > In article >> >> >> >> > > > > ><Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> >> >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> >> >> > > > > > to teach ID >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >> >> >> >> > > > course, >> >> >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> >> >> >> > > (self-admitted) >> >> >> >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why >should the >> >> >> >> > > US >> >> >> >> > > give up religious freedom? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people >> >> >> >> > that >> >> >> >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> >> >> >> > schools. >> >> >> >> > I >> >> >> >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be >> >> >> >> > taught >> >> >> >> > in >> >> >> >> > the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> >> >> >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> >> >> >> outright. Their loss. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> > >> >> >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a >> >> >> > state school should quit. >> >> >> >> >> >> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what >> >> >> science >> >> >> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> >> >> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >> >> >> curriculum? >> >> > >> >> > No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >> > evolution to be taught. >> >> >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. >> > >> >There is more to it than that. The text book "Of Pandas and People" has >> >170 pages. For example, two separate books have been written by the >> >proponents of creation science related to fossils and bones. A summary of >> >the fossil evidence is probably discussed in that text book. >> >> Which is it, creation science, which is religious material, or >> Intelligent Design, which is pretend science. >> >> >Perhaps the parents could tell their children: "Life evolved from >> >non-life". So, when the kids come home from school, all the parents have >> >to do is say that and it's taken care of. There's no need for an entire >> >course on evolution. >> >> Sorry, but some of us are not interested in such simplistic answers. >> We want the real science and real evidence taught. We want children to >> learn about all the different kinds of evidence that shows that all >> life today evolved from a common ancestral population. > >I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in >deciding education policy. That is far better than unelected evolutionists >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with >how states are deciding education policy. > You may want lies taught to your children or grandchildren, but I certainly do not and I certainly don't want you to destroy the First Amendment to teach your lies in school Jason, you are a liar and a hypocrite and an enemy of civil liberties. Maybe that's because you grew up in a state that went to war against the United States because they could find religious leaders who said that slavery was the will of God. Do you believe that God condones slavery? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071642540001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182890874.445300.325940@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 20:10, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182873615.385634.169...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > On 26 Jun., 02:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> > > > Ma= >> rtin >> > >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > > > On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > > In article >> > > > > > <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > > > > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > > > > In article >> > > > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodig= >> y=2Ene=3D >> > > t>, >> > >> > > > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > In article >> > > > > > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.ne= >> t>, >> > > > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> > > > > > > > > > to teach ID >> > >> > > > > > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> > >> > > > > > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> > >> > > > > > > > > So what's your problem? >> > >> > > > > > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. >> > > > > > > > O= >> f co=3D >> > > urse, >> > > > > > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> > >> > > > > > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> > > > > > > (self-admi= >> tted) >> > > > > > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should >> > > > > > > t= >> he US >> > > > > > > give up religious freedom? >> > >> > > > > > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the >> > > > > > people= >> that >> > > > > > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> > > > > > sch= >> ools=3D >> > > . I >> > > > > > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should >> > > > > > be = >> taug=3D >> > > ht in >> > > > > > the public schools. >> > >> > > > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth >> > > > > was >> > > > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> > > > > outright. Their loss. >> > >> > > > > Martin >> > >> > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in >> > > > a >> > > > state school should quit.- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - >> > >> > > > - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - >> > >> > > I didn't think you would answer the question. Apparently you are >> > > afraid of it just like all the others you ignore. >> > >> > I did provide an answer--perhaps you were not satisfied with my >> > answer--but I did provide an answer.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> The question was whether or not teachers should go along with teaching >> that the Earth is flat if the majority wanted that taught. You did >> not address that question at all. It is amazing how you lie about >> what everybody can see. > > One reason I did not respond is because that would never happen. Is the > correct term for this: n\0n sequitur? No, that wouldn't be the correct term. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:28:17 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071228180001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <4cp2831rq5i8fqa37g7o1h82oc5qi3b2en@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: .... >> >That is far better than unelected evolutionists >> >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with >> >how states are deciding education policy. >> >> Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? > > >I don't believe there should have been a court case. It's my opinion that >evolutionists should NOT take states to court if they decide to teach ID. The First Amendment tells us that your opinion is wrong. >The evolutionists should allow the representatives in each state to >determine education policy. Citizens establish policy. The vast majority of citizens want science taught. Only a few people want to destroy the Constitution. >Education policy should not be determined by >unelected evolutionists. It is not. > For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. I don't >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I doubt >it--but am only guessing. The school board was thrown out after the trial. The people of Dover were embarrassed that they had been used by their supposedly 'Christian' friends. You are still advocating the destruction of the First Amendment. Tell me, since you want creation myths taught in science class, will you accept all of them or only the one you believe in? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <h793835evod0h2gogp22l9e83dgk7f533s@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:36:57 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2606071636570001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > > >> >I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. > >> > >> Right, that is why both sides have expert witnesses. > >> > >> >I believe that > >> >elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected > >> >evolutionists. > >> > >> You misspelled judge yet again. > >> > >> >Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be > >> >taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes > >> >more sense than evolution. > >> > >> Your opinion does not outweigh facts. I don't want ID taught because > >> it is either very bad science or religious teachings and I don't want > >> either of those in the public schools. I don't think that any school > >> should teach bad science, but private schools do have some freedom. > >> > >> You really should read the Dover decision. You may well be concerned > >> about learning something about the topic, but publicizing ignorance is > >> even worse. > > > >Matt, > >I am not an excellent writer. This person makes my points much better than > >I could make them: > > Your issue is not writing, your problem is that you don't know the > law. You did not even know that Federal judges were appointed rather > than elected. My memory is not perfect. > > >I found this article by conducting a google search for "Judicial Fiat" > > > > July, 2003 > >"Judicial Fiat" > > > >Every clear-headed Christian/American should be righteously angry over > >those federal court rulings that create law rather than interpret law. > > > >The most recent ruling by a federal judge to remove the Ten Commandments > > Which version did they use? Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish? > > >from school grounds at West Union, Peebles, North Adams, and Manchester > >High Schools in Ohio is a clear example of "legislation by mandate" (or > >fiat) by a single judge against the will of the democratic majority. > > Nothing to do with the creationism. > > >I'm as capable as any judge to read and understand the Constitution of the > >United States and nowhere in that document are there any such words as > >"separation of church and state." Nowhere! > > Wow, as capable as any judge. I thought that humility was a Christian > virtue. And it is too bad that the judges in those cases did not claim > that the Constitution has the phrase "separation of church and state". > It does have the Establishment Clause, however. > > >The truth is, the Constitution under Article I section 1 says: "All > >legislative powers here-in granted shall be vested in a Congress of the > >United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of > >Representatives." Clearly those judges who mandate or make new law are in > >violation of Article I and should be impeached, tried and convicted of > >high crimes. > > ROTFOLMAO. It is too bad that they did not make any laws. That > arrogance thing is showing again. > > >Also, the first Amendment (Bill of Rights) says, "Congress shall make no > >law respecting on establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free > >exercise thereof Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071611310001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <L3fgi.43$K9.29@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2606071314370001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <J1egi.15745$19.7282@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2606071137190001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <xY7gi.7470$n9.4666@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> news:Jason-2506072216280001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> > In article <obWdnSoYvoJc6x3bnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." >> >> >> > <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> > Gallup Poll: Two Thirds of Americans Believe God Created Them >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> That's pretty sad, isn't it. In this supposedly advanced society >> >> >> >> so many people still believe in a myth. It is really >> >> >> >> embarrassing >> >> >> >> for our country. In no other advanced society, and many that >> >> >> >> aren't so advanced, is there so much scientific ignorance as >> >> >> >> there is here. 'Tis a very sad comment on our society. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I disagree--I think that it's great news that so many people >> >> >> > realize >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > God is watching over them and will even take them to heaven when >> >> >> > they >> >> >> > die. >> >> >> > When Christian relatives and friends die, it's wonderful to >> >> >> > realize >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > we will join them in heaven when we die. I am looking forward to >> >> >> > seeing >> >> >> > my >> >> >> > parents and my sister when I make it to heaven. >> >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> >> >> Won't happen Jason. >> >> > >> >> > I disagree. >> >> >> >> You can disagree all you want, it still isn't going to happen. The >> >> concept >> >> of heaven and hell is another logical reason not to believe the bible. >> > >> > We will both know for sure on the day that we die. >> > >> > What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like this >> > one: >> > >> > I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? >> > >> > Jason >> >> Let's see Jason, we can tell them a lie or we can tell them the truth. >> Where >> would they get the idea that heaven was an option? From people just like >> you. I would let people like you explain to them that the concept of >> heaven >> was a lie and that when you die that is the end. >> >> If Christians truly believed in heaven they would rejoice and celebrate >> when >> someone died. Instead they are devastated, just like us poor old >> atheists. > > Of course, I don't think lies are involved when children are told about > heaven. I would tell the child that her Grandma was in heaven. People are > sad when people die because they will miss the person that died. Many > small children get sad when their mother and/or father go to work each day > for that same reason. > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother was > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. > Jason Man, you aren't capable of the truth, are you? How many lies do you think can be told to children before they become suspicious of everything you tell the\0? Grandmother is lying anywhere! Grandmother is dead! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071702360001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> >> > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the >> > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother >> > was >> > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> be adults with poorly developed minds. > > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket > that was buried in the dirt. Not unless someone like you has told the child previously that there is a heaven. See what happens when you lie. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071631170001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182891430.834265.109900@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 20:40, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182874101.911955.323...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > On 26 Jun., 02:25, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <1182814064.453751.298...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > > > On 25 Jun., 21:39, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > > In article >> > > > > > <1182799149.323449.320...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com= >> >, "Bob >> > > snip >> > >> > > > > > My point is that various people rejected the evidence based >> > > > > > upon >> > what they >> > > > > > already believe.- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - >> > >> > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - >> > >> > > > > Since there was no evidence to reject, you have no point. There >> > > > > was >> > > > > hearsay testimony. How could the doctor or the person cured >> > > > > possib= >> ly >> > > > > know it was a miracle. This has been asked in various ways >> > > > > repeate= >> d, >> > > > > and you are still ignoring it. >> > >> > > > I understand your question. The doctor knew that William Kent had >> > > > bee= >> n in >> > > > a wheel chair for several years. The doctor had X-Rays and medical >> > > > re= >> cords >> > > > related to the reason William Kent was disabled. That same doctor >> > > > hea= >> rd >> > > > Willam Kent's testimony related to his healing. That doctor >> > > > examined >> > > > William Kent and determined that he was no longer disabled and >> > > > could = >> walk >> > > > normally. The doctor believed the testimony of William Kent related >> > > > t= >> o the >> > > > healing. Can William Kent or the doctor provide PROOF that God >> > > > healed >> > > > William Kent that would satisfy athiests? The answer is NO. Can >> > > > Willam >> > > > Kent and his doctor provide testimonies and statements that will >> > > > conv= >> ince >> > > > other Christians and myself that William Kent was healed? The >> > > > answer = >> is >> > > > Yes. Atheists do not believe the testimony of William Kent because >> > > > of >> > > > their belief system. >> > >> > > You have been told why we do not believe the testimony, which means >> > > the above is a lie. >> > >> > > >Many Christians will believe the testimony of William >> > > > Kent because of our belief system. I doubt that anyone will >> > > > understan= >> d my >> > > > point.- >> > >> > > Your point is that you have no evidence and you lie about it, making >> > > it worse by accusing atheists of being as dishonest as you. >> > >> > Your belief system causes you to reject or not believe the testimonies >> > of >> > those people. >> >> And you repeat your lie about my motivations. >> >> >My belief system causes me to accept and believe the >> > testimonies.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> >> Since I have no belief system, I require evidence. Continue with your >> delibrately insulting lies if they amuse you; they change nothing. > > You are the first adult person that has ever told me that they have no > belief system. What belief systems do you think adults have? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <m3a383l6mk1gd9rfff7t29qhkdoe8q44ts@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:58:27 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2606071058280001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <46811A14.2050701@osu.edu>, James Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > [in response to <hpk0831bpvg6k5opju35jsrineoqapd09d@4ax.com>, > >> > Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> ] > >> > > >> > So 68% of the people in Ohio want teachers to teach Evolution > >> > and ID. However, evolutionists want to control what teachers > >> > are able to teach. Unlike you, I believe the people that live > >> > in Ohio should be allowed to have a voice in deciding school > >> > curriculum. > >> > >> That 68% live under a constitution that protects the minority > >> from the majority. This includes protection from having > >> anyone's religion shoved down their throats by the government. > >> > >> Teaching your Biblical literalism as though it were science > >> in a government-mandated class qualifies absolutely as > >> "shoving your religion down my children's throat". This > >> is true not just for non-Christians, but for all the Christians > >> who are /not/ Biblical literalists. > >> > >> > >> But you know this, Jason. You /show/ that you know this because > >> you do NOT argue against evolution by using the constitutional > >> argument -- which is a much stronger argument, if you can > >> swing it. > >> > >> Why did our Founders add the First Amendment to the US > >> Constitution? Because they saw the devastation brought > >> by the wars over established churches in Europe. Is that > >> devastation what you want for the United States? I don't > >> know about you specifically, Jason, but some of your > >> fellow Creationists are hoping for the End Times; war and > >> destruction is a sign that Christ is coming, for them. > >> > >> What percentage of Ohioans would want Intelligent > >> Design taught in their classrooms if they knew it > >> was part of a plan to give Pestilence, War, Famine, and > >> Death free rein in Ohio? > >> > >> Jim Burns > > > >If ID was taught in every biology class in America, none of those things > >would happen. Thousands of children in each state learn about ID in > >Christian schools and as part of home schooling programs. The graduates > >don't cause pestilence, war, famine and death. You are paranoid about > >nothing. Stalin was an atheist and he killed millions of people. > >jason > > You should look at Stalin's history when he was growing up in a > Christian household, being beaten by his dad and sent away to a seminary > to become a priest. Do you have some evidence that his Christian > upbringing didn't make him into the evil man he was? No--the typical communist has this point of view about religion: Religion is the opiate of the masses. Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> >>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the >>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother was >>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> be adults with poorly developed minds. > > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine Have to? Or have what happen? > after telling the child > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket > that was buried in the dirt. I can only assume that you are the child you are talking about. Would you lose your mind and die of grief if someone told you the truth about death? Life involves sorrow and happiness, pleasure and pain. Making up lies to minimize the sorrow and pain also diminishes the sweetness of their opposites. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:10:53 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071310530001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <fvq2835jq1l5hnd19r2chtq2071ckhaimt@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: ..... >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? > >I don't hate America. You are advocating the destruction of the Constitution. >People like yourself appear to me to want judges to >determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in >that Dover case elected or appointed? You never read anything people tell you. If you had, you would know that Bush appointed him. He was a Federal District judge. This was a federal case. >I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy and >not judges or evolutionists. So you don't care if the Bill of Rights is shredded. If a legislature declares that your particular religious sect is a criminal organization, that's fine with you. If you no longer have the Fifth Amendment to protect you, that's fine with you. People who immigrated here without proper papers have more respect for the law and for this country than you do. Maybe you should leave so we can have room for more illegals. >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. It depends on how the question is asked. If the question were asked properly, they would say no. People do not want religious doctrines taught in science class. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <gda383p79807j37f1ju8ibliueqh6kqp1e@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2606071108440001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) in > >> <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > >> [snip] > >> > >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >> >school curriculum. > >> > >> And they do, in every state even. > >> > >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > >> >evolution to be taught. > >> > >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you > >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to > >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to > >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, > >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even > >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to > >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content > >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that > >> (non-existent) content. > >> > >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent > >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" > >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence > >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers > >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the > >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, > >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue > >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. > >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. > > > >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which > >has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read the > >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want to > >learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: > >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss > > > Jason, you keep ignoring that Pandas does not have a shred of scientific > content to support ID/Creationism and that it was a Creationist textbook > first. They advertise the Pandas book in the ICR newsletter. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:55:57 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071655580001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people >> >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the >> >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. > > >> Do they have any idea what to teach about ID? Do you? Don't give me a >> hand wave about the Discovery Institute, tell me what there is to >> teach about ID. >> >> Oh, wait, that's right, you agree with the judge that ID is >> creationism and you want the government to promote your religion. > >I would prefer that laws be made by legislators that are elected by people >than be made as a result of "legislation my mandate (judicial fiat). He was defending the Constitution against those who want to destroy religious freedom. How is that fiat? >In the Dover case, that state law was made by judicial fiat instead of by >the legislators that were elected by the citizens of Ohio. God has really turned you into a blithering idiot. Dover is in Pennsylvania. The decision was made by a local school board that was thrown out by the citizens at the next election. Clearly the citizens of Dover agreed with the Judge that the School Board had been wrong. >Yes, the proper term was probably something like "judicial ruling" or >"court decision". However, in my opinion it was a law made by judicial >fiat. Yes, but you say many things that are not true. -- "... There's glory for you." "I don't know what you mean by 'glory,'" Alice said. Humpty Dumpty smiles contemptuously. "Of course you don't--till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'" "But glory doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument," Alice objected. "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master--that's all." Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071322010001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182888250.489184.198890@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > >news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > Martin >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> > In article >> > > >> > <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> > > > In article >> > > >> > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> > >> > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > > >> > > > > In article >> > > >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > > >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> > > >> > > > > > to teach ID >> > >> > > >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> > >> > > >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> > >> > > >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> > >> > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. >> > > >> > > > Of >> > > >> > > > course, >> > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> > >> > > >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science > (self-admitted) >> > > >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should > the US >> > > >> > > give up religious freedom? >> > >> > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the > people that >> > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public > schools. >> > > >> > I >> > > >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should > be taught >> > > >> > in >> > > >> > the public schools. >> > >> > > >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> > > >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> > > >> outright. Their loss. >> > >> > > >> Martin >> > >> > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in >> > > > a >> > > > state school should quit. >> > >> > > You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what > science >> > > is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >> > > illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science > curriculum? >> > >> > No-- >> >> In that case what you say below must be wrong. >> >> >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID >> > and >> > evolution to be taught.- >> >> And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not >> determine the science curriculum. > > I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. Ever heard of evidence presented at a trial? How in the hell do you think judges make a ruling? Why do participants in court rely on expert witnesses? > I believe that > elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected > evolutionists. What is an 'evolutionist', Jason? You ignored that question previously and now you need to answer it. What if the judge is a Christian, Jason, which many of them are? Does that make him an unelected 'evolutionist'? > Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be > taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes > more sense than evolution. It does to scientific illiterates like you. It wouldn't to a person who had just a smattering of scientific knowledge Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:22:01 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071322010001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182888250.489184.198890@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: .... >> And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not >> determine the science curriculum. > >I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. I believe that >elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected >evolutionists. Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be >taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes >more sense than evolution. Your opinion, once again, shows and arrogant pride in your ignorance. ID is a religious doctrine. Since you want that religious doctrine taught in school, do you want Islam taught there as well? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:36:57 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071636570001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. >> >> Right, that is why both sides have expert witnesses. >> >> >I believe that >> >elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected >> >evolutionists. >> >> You misspelled judge yet again. >> >> >Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be >> >taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes >> >more sense than evolution. >> >> Your opinion does not outweigh facts. I don't want ID taught because >> it is either very bad science or religious teachings and I don't want >> either of those in the public schools. I don't think that any school >> should teach bad science, but private schools do have some freedom. >> >> You really should read the Dover decision. You may well be concerned >> about learning something about the topic, but publicizing ignorance is >> even worse. > >Matt, >I am not an excellent writer. This person makes my points much better than >I could make them: > >I found this article by conducting a google search for "Judicial Fiat" > > July, 2003 >"Judicial Fiat" > >Every clear-headed Christian/American should be righteously angry over >those federal court rulings that create law rather than interpret law. > >The most recent ruling by a federal judge to remove the Ten Commandments >from school grounds at West Union, Peebles, North Adams, and Manchester >High Schools in Ohio is a clear example of "legislation by mandate" (or >fiat) by a single judge against the will of the democratic majority. > >I'm as capable as any judge to read and understand the Constitution of the >United States and nowhere in that document are there any such words as >"separation of church and state." Nowhere! > >The truth is, the Constitution under Article I section 1 says: "All >legislative powers here-in granted shall be vested in a Congress of the >United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of >Representatives." Clearly those judges who mandate or make new law are in >violation of Article I and should be impeached, tried and convicted of >high crimes. > >Also, the first Amendment (Bill of Rights) says, "Congress shall make no >law respecting on establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free >exercise thereof Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 <snipped for brevity> ">> It was a Republican judge, nominated by Bush, that ruled in the Dover >> case. >> >> >For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of >> >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. >> >> You keep confusing "court" with "evolutionist". And in Ohio the >> problem was that there is no ID curriculum to teach. Have you checked >> the Discovery Institute yet on this? >> >> >I don't >> >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their >> >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I >> >doubt >> >it--but am only guessing. >> >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? > > I don't hate America. People like yourself appear to me to want judges to > determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in > that Dover case elected or appointed? > > I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy and > not judges or evolutionists. > > People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people > that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the > citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. Scientists will determine what courses will be considered as science. Do you think people like you are qualified to do this? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:51:29 -0000, in alt.talk.creationism Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in <1182840689.856964.217230@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>: >On Jun 26, 1:27 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article >> <DipthotDipthot-1DEF3B.19130325062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > In article >> > <Jason-2506071217400...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people that >> > > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public schools >> >> > Scientific truth is not a popularity contest. >> >> > The masses, on average, are not too bright. Do you want that kind of >> > mediocre thinking foisted on our young? >> >> > Of course you do. And that's called thought control. >> >> I would much prefer the citizens of Ohio electing politicians that will do >> what the citizens of Ohio want them to do related to education policy than >> to have a group of unelected evolutionists deciding education policy. > >I don't want politicians to dictate what is taught in schools. That >is what happens in dictatorships. Apparently you don't want anything taught in schools. All school districts that I am familiar with are run by elected school boards, those people are politicians. God is making you act more and more stupid. I don't think He likes you. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:38:41 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2506072238410001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182828376.590242.59740@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 26, 9:12 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <yAZfi.7126$n9.6...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > >news:Jason-2406071818230001@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > > In article >> > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> In article >> > > >> <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > >> > I want to make it legal for teachers >> > > >> > to teach ID >> > >> > > >> But it is legal to do that... >> > >> > > >> ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> > >> > > >> So what's your problem? >> > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of course, >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> > >> > > Tell me Jason, just how would you propose teaching ID as science? >Please be >> > > specific in your reply. >> > >> > Teachers and students would use the textbook "Of Pandas and People" which >> > has no Biblical content. >> >> It also has no scientific content. And you can't argue that it does >> because you've never seen it. >> >> Martin > >That's true--just a book review. >Jason From religious apologists who have a motive to lie. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071136410001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <5eclp9F37r3knU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2506072141500001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <1182825539.614729.233910@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 26, 8:29 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <m5l083tvho8aq1m7bplo13mv79ltbci...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > So, aside from you huge ego, why do you claim that humans are >> >> > > special. >> >> > > The physical evidence shows otherwise. >> >> > >> >> > Because the Bible states that humans are special. >> >> >> >> So, aside from your huge ego, what possible reason do you have for >> >> believing anything in the Bible? You were asked before to find >> >> something -anything- in the Bible which is objectively true and you >> >> never answered (as usual). >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart there is no God. >> >> If a fool can figure it out, what's your problem? > > My interpretation is difference: > Only fools believe there is not God. Why would you believe that gods are real? Yours or any of the others? Once you determine that gods don't exist it becomes so obvious that they don't you can't understand how others believe even though you might have previously been a 'believer'. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:47:37 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071047380001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <5eclv9F38b9mhU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2506072238410001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <1182828376.590242.59740@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 26, 9:12 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <yAZfi.7126$n9.6...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> > >news:Jason-2406071818230001@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > > > In article >> >> > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > >> In article >> >> > > >> <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> >> > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > >> > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> > > >> > to teach ID >> >> > >> >> > > >> But it is legal to do that... >> >> > >> >> > > >> ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> > >> >> > > >> So what's your problem? >> >> > >> >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >> >> > > > course, >> >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> >> > >> >> > > Tell me Jason, just how would you propose teaching ID as science? >> > Please be >> >> > > specific in your reply. >> >> > >> >> > Teachers and students would use the textbook "Of Pandas and People" >> >> > which >> >> > has no Biblical content. >> >> >> >> It also has no scientific content. And you can't argue that it does >> >> because you've never seen it. >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > That's true--just a book review. >> >> How can you advocate something you haven't even bothered to read? > >Since I know the basics of creation science and ID--I don't need to >re-learn the basics of creation science and ID by reading the book. It's >like a high school physics teacher not needing to read the high school >physics textbook cover to cover prior to teaching the first class. I don't know any physics teachers who would be so careless, but then you don't want students to be educated, so you don't care if the physics teacher does his job right or not. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071110310001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182873615.385634.169780@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 02:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > > In article >> > > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.ne= >> t>, >> > >> > > > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > > > > > > In article >> > > > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > > > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> > > > > > > > to teach ID >> > >> > > > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> > >> > > > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> > >> > > > > > > So what's your problem? >> > >> > > > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >> > > > > > co= >> urse, >> > > > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> > >> > > > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> > > > > (self-admitted) >> > > > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should the >> > > > > US >> > > > > give up religious freedom? >> > >> > > > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the people >> > > > that >> > > > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> > > > schools= >> . I >> > > > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should be >> > > > taug= >> ht in >> > > > the public schools. >> > >> > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was >> > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >> > > outright. Their loss. >> > >> > > Martin >> > >> > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a >> > state school should quit.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> I didn't think you would answer the question. Apparently you are >> afraid of it just like all the others you ignore. > > I did provide an answer--perhaps you were not satisfied with my > answer--but I did provide an answer. No one should be satisfied with that answer. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.