Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <l7b383p45gskdp0v9cdfe7e4c7qibd086t@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:10:53 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071310530001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <fvq2835jq1l5hnd19r2chtq2071ckhaimt@4ax.com>, Matt >> >Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> .... >> >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than >> >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not >> >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? >> > >> >I don't hate America. >> >> You are advocating the destruction of the Constitution. >> >> >People like yourself appear to me to want judges to >> >determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in >> >that Dover case elected or appointed? >> >> You never read anything people tell you. If you had, you would know that >> Bush appointed him. He was a Federal District judge. This was a federal >> case. >> >> >I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy >> >and >> >not judges or evolutionists. >> >> So you don't care if the Bill of Rights is shredded. If a legislature >> declares that your particular religious sect is a criminal organization, >> that's fine with you. If you no longer have the Fifth Amendment to >> protect you, that's fine with you. >> >> People who immigrated here without proper papers have more respect for >> the law and for this country than you do. Maybe you should leave so we >> can have room for more illegals. >> >> >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people >> >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the >> >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. >> >> It depends on how the question is asked. >> >> If the question were asked properly, they would say no. People do not >> want religious doctrines taught in science class. > > The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted > both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. The Hindu's believe that their story of religious beginnings should be taught, Should we do this? What if they are in the majority, do we teach it then? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071752130001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <Fiigi.120$ca.57@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> <snipped for brevity> >> ">> It was a Republican judge, nominated by Bush, that ruled in the Dover >> >> case. >> >> >> >> >For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of >> >> >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. >> >> >> >> You keep confusing "court" with "evolutionist". And in Ohio the >> >> problem was that there is no ID curriculum to teach. Have you checked >> >> the Discovery Institute yet on this? >> >> >> >> >I don't >> >> >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their >> >> >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I >> >> >doubt >> >> >it--but am only guessing. >> >> >> >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than >> >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not >> >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? >> > >> > I don't hate America. People like yourself appear to me to want judges >> > to >> > determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in >> > that Dover case elected or appointed? >> > >> > I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy >> > and >> > not judges or evolutionists. >> > >> > People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the >> > people >> > that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the >> > citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. >> >> Scientists will determine what courses will be considered as science. Do >> you >> think people like you are qualified to do this? > > Sorry--I was under the impression that school boards and the state > sectratary of education made decisions as to what courses should be > taught. Well smart ass, evidently there are restrictions on what they can decide or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Deal with it! Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:38:07 -0000, in alt.talk.creationism Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in <1182839887.258694.305980@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>: >On Jun 26, 12:58 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: .... >> I am not a catholic. I once attended one service at a Catholic church. I >> saw lots of symbols and robes. People that are catholics probably >> understand those sorts of things. > >So in addition to math, physics, biology, chemistry, history, >anthropology and economics, you are now admitting that you know >nothing about the history of your own religious practices? You forgot law. He not only doesn't know law, but it is clear from his answers that he hates the law that America uses. >This is what happens to people who decide early on that they don't >need any education, Jason. Sad, isn't it. Even worse, Jason is not unique in the US. Barnum's estimate about how often suckers are born hasn't kept up with our nation's growth. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:28:42 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071328420001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182888536.294395.68200@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: .... >> Why do Christians celebrate a holiday named after a pagan goddess? > >You failed to answer the above question. > >I don't know if that is true. If it is true, I don't know the reason. I am >not an expert related to Bible history. A Jehovahs Witness told me >something about the origin of Christmas. I don't worship any pagan >goddesses. > And Moslems don't worship a moon god, despite your lie to the contrary. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:26:57 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071626570001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182892095.064389.276730@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 20:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182873694.135711.325...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >snip >> >> > >> > > > I did not state that Christian Arabs are not really Christians. >Christian >> > > > Arabs are really Christians even if they call God by the name of >Allah.- = >> > > Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > > Good, you admit your entire argument has been invalid. >> > >> > Not true--The Christians Arabs will eventually understand (as a result of >> > reading their Bibles) that God is vastly different than the moon >> > god-- >> >> Eventually understand? They do not believe in any moon god now. > >The Quran indicates that the moon god is unknowable. The moon God is so >exalted that no man can ever personally know Allah. In his book that is >entitled, "Jesus and Muhammad, Mark Gabriel, a former devout Muslim, says: >"If you ask a Muslim, Do you how much Allah loves your? he will respond, >'I don't know how much he loves me. Only Allah knows.' The Quran is not talking about a moon god. That is your lie. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gjpmc@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2606071316460001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <1182887737.836228.164980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> > > >> > snip > >> > >> > Martin, > >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition that > >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find out the > >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >> > > >> > >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. > > > >This is from Wikipedia: > > > >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is > >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, > >observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early > >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the > >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe > >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the > >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, > >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season > >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now > >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the > >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. > > > >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a > >non-religious holiday. > > > But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility festival. Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying t\0 convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <d6d383tpv8ln55bk4g3lp588704ta04oa1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:50:05 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2506072150060001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <m6r083hfa4oebpf4a56skimde32a9itmd5@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:27:34 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2506071827340001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <mip083tkkqhcp757tku7i60mga5nmhp6tr@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:49:48 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> <Jason-2506071749490001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >In article <r0n083d7l69bkbc3m7p60j3l60hlme9aeh@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >> >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:46:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> >> >> <Jason-2506071046360001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >> >> >In article <stqv7396nu5e3jsncsntpea7hi1dvcrb8r@4ax.com>, John Baker > >> >> >> ><nunya@bizniz.net> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:28:42 -0700, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >On 25 Jun., 03:35, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> ... > >> >> >> >> >> For those people that believe Yahweh and Allah are the same > >> >God--please > >> >> >> >> >> explain why there is a symbol of a crescent moon on top of > >> >every Mormon > >> >> >> >> >> Mosque in the world? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Sure, Jason. Just as soon as you tell me where I might find a > >> >> >> >> Mormon mosque. <G> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Sorry--I meant Muslim Mosque. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Which Mosque would you be willing to go into and tell the worshippers > >> >> >> that they do not worship the God of Abraham? What evidence can you > >> >> >> provide them that you are right and that Mohammed lied to them? > >> >> > > >> >> >Hubal and Allah the Moon God? > >> >> > > >> >> >Islam: Truth or Myth? start page > >> >> > > >> >> >Introduction to basic facts of history: > >> >> > > >> >> > 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The > >> >> >crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far > >> >> >back as 2000 BC. > >> >> > 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. > >> >> > 3. This Hubal was a moon god. > >> >> > 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was > >> >> >placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may > >> >> >in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret > >> >> >at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque > >> >> >throughout the world: > >> >> > > >> >> > About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr > >> >> >bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol > >> >> >called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of > >> >> >the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar > >> >> >(Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim) > >> >> > > >> >> > 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper > >> >> >name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god". > >> >> >Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan > >> >> >god as "al-ilah". > >> >> > 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began > >> >> >promoting his new religion in 610 AD. > >> >> > 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah". > >> >> > 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name > >> >> >"Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah". > >> >> > 9. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the > >> >> >Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms. > >> >> > 10. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is > >> >> >derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. > >> >> > 11. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in > >> >paganism. > >> >> > > >> >> > Hubal the moon god of the Kabah > >> >> > > >> >> > Allah the moon god of the Kabah > >> >> > > >> >> >Remnants of pagan Moon god worship in the Koran > >> >> > > >> >> >Pre-Islamic Origin of the word Allah > >> >> > > >> >> >Photogallery of the ancient history of Moon god worship > >> >> > > >> >> >Modern usage of moon god symbols in Islam today. > >> >> > > >> >> That does not show that they worship a moon god. > >> >> > >> >> You wouldn't persuade anyone that you know what you are talking about. > >> > > >> >Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque? > >> > > >> Why not? What does that have to do with the fact that they worship the > >> God of Abraham? > >> > >> Christians use a cross. Does that mean that God is dead? > > > >Here is the answer to the question: > > > >> > 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The > >>> >crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far > >>> >back as 2000 BC. > >>> > 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. > >>> > 3. This Hubal was a moon god. > >>> > 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was > >>> >placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may > >>> >in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret > >>> >at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque > >>> >throughout the world: > > No, that is not an answer to my question. Mohammed was a religious > reformer and part of his reform was to state that there was only one > god, the God of Abraham. You are lying about Islam. > > I notice that you refused to respond to the fact that Easter was > borrowed from pagan worship. I stated in a post that I don't know about that issue. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071800540001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gjpmc@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071316460001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <1182887737.836228.164980@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: >> > >> >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > >> >> > snip >> >> >> >> > Martin, >> >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition >> >> > that >> >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find > out the >> >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. >> >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> > >> >> >> >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the >> >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. >> > >> >This is from Wikipedia: >> > >> >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is >> >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, >> >observed at some point between late March and late April each year >> >(early >> >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the >> >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe >> >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the >> >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, >> >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season >> >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now >> >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of >> >the >> >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. >> > >> >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a >> >non-religious holiday. >> > >> But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility festival. > > Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to > convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? Not me, I know that he never rose, not on Monday or any other day of the week. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <yrigi.132$ca.117@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2606071725240001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <gda383p79807j37f1ju8ibliueqh6kqp1e@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2606071108440001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >Silberstein > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> [snip] > >> >> > >> >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >> >> >school curriculum. > >> >> > >> >> And they do, in every state even. > >> >> > >> >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > >> >> >evolution to be taught. > >> >> > >> >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you > >> >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to > >> >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to > >> >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, > >> >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even > >> >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to > >> >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content > >> >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that > >> >> (non-existent) content. > >> >> > >> >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent > >> >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" > >> >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence > >> >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers > >> >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the > >> >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, > >> >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue > >> >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. > >> >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. > >> > > >> >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which > >> >has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read the > >> >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want to > >> >learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: > >> >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss > >> > > >> Jason, you keep ignoring that Pandas does not have a shred of scientific > >> content to support ID/Creationism and that it was a Creationist textbook > >> first. > > > > They advertise the Pandas book in the ICR newsletter. > > SO WHAT??? Did you refute his statement? No. I have stated in other posts that I have not read the Pandas book--only the review. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <Fzigi.138$ca.68@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <l7b383p45gskdp0v9cdfe7e4c7qibd086t@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:10:53 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2606071310530001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <fvq2835jq1l5hnd19r2chtq2071ckhaimt@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >Silberstein > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> .... > >> >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than > >> >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not > >> >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? > >> > > >> >I don't hate America. > >> > >> You are advocating the destruction of the Constitution. > >> > >> >People like yourself appear to me to want judges to > >> >determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in > >> >that Dover case elected or appointed? > >> > >> You never read anything people tell you. If you had, you would know that > >> Bush appointed him. He was a Federal District judge. This was a federal > >> case. > >> > >> >I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy > >> >and > >> >not judges or evolutionists. > >> > >> So you don't care if the Bill of Rights is shredded. If a legislature > >> declares that your particular religious sect is a criminal organization, > >> that's fine with you. If you no longer have the Fifth Amendment to > >> protect you, that's fine with you. > >> > >> People who immigrated here without proper papers have more respect for > >> the law and for this country than you do. Maybe you should leave so we > >> can have room for more illegals. > >> > >> >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people > >> >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the > >> >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. > >> > >> It depends on how the question is asked. > >> > >> If the question were asked properly, they would say no. People do not > >> want religious doctrines taught in science class. > > > > The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted > > both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > > The Hindu's believe that their story of religious beginnings should be > taught, Should we do this? What if they are in the majority, do we teach it > then? Excellent point--I doubt if any school board would do it. If I lived in that district, I would write a letter to each member of the school board and ask them to vote NO. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <roc383hj739l9d8vjqnceq3nslgetmmjm4@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:53:44 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote in > <1182873224.668805.269050@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: > >On 26 Jun., 01:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> In article <1182812406.148531.4...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> > On 25 Jun., 08:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > >> > >> > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >> > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "= > >> > Bob > >> > >> > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > >> > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > >> > >> > > > > > <snip article> > >> > >> > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nutcases > >> > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that > >> > > > > > America was more like Iran. > >> > >> > > > > > - Bob T. > >> > >> > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. > >> > >> > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious > >> > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim > >> > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would > >> > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking on > >> > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > >> > >> > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, > >> > > > including freedom from religion. > >> > >> > > > - Bob T. > >> > >> > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take > >> > > over the world--one country at a time. > >> > >> > It is also the goal of Christians. You said so. > >> > >> There is a BIG difference. If people refuse to become Muslims, the Muslims > >> chop off thier heads. If people refuse to become Christians, we don't harm > >> them in any way. Has any Christian ever harmed you or threatened you? > >> > >> > >> > >> > They are presently committing > >> > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. > >> > >> > All the Moslems are doing that? Even the ones that are at war with > >> > each other? Stop being such a fool. > >> > >> > After they take over control > >> > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over > >> > > surrounding countries. > >> > >> > The Sudan is a Muslem country and has been for many centuries. > >> > >> The Muslims from Middle east are taking over the Sudan. They are either > >> killing the Black Muslims or forcing them to leave the country. > > > >The ones doing the killing are nomadic tribesmen in the Sudan. The > >Blacks are animists and Christians. You are once again exposed as an > >ignorant liar. > > You are confusing two different wars. The war in the south was the > Moslems of the north against the animists and Christians of the south. > The war in Darfur is more tribal, but generally everyone involved is > Moslem. > > This is a tribal war. There is some sense in which it is racist, but the > supposedly Arab north and the Janjaweed are not notably lighter black > than the blacks in Darfur who are being killed. > > ... I posted an article related to Darfur. The article indicated that Arab Muslims are committing genocide against black muslims (in Darfur). I suggest that you google this term: "Arab Muslims in Darfur" Quote
Guest Bob T. Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 26, 5:52 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <Fiigi.120$ca...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > <snipped for brevity> > > ">> It was a Republican judge, nominated by Bush, that ruled in the Dover > > >> case. > > > >> >For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of > > >> >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. > > > >> You keep confusing "court" with "evolutionist". And in Ohio the > > >> problem was that there is no ID curriculum to teach. Have you checked > > >> the Discovery Institute yet on this? > > > >> >I don't > > >> >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their > > >> >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I > > >> >doubt > > >> >it--but am only guessing. > > > >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than > > >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not > > >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? > > > > I don't hate America. People like yourself appear to me to want judges to > > > determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in > > > that Dover case elected or appointed? > > > > I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy and > > > not judges or evolutionists. > > > > People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people > > > that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the > > > citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. > > > Scientists will determine what courses will be considered as science. Do you > > think people like you are qualified to do this? > > Sorry--I was under the impression that school boards and the state > sectratary of education made decisions as to what courses should be > taught. Within limits - public schools are not allowed to preach religion to children. If you lived in a town where the majority of the population was Muslim, and the school board decided that the children should bow down to Mecca in school, would you think that was OK? How about if the majority were pagan? I just came across this link about school prayer on another newsgroup: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46828 "Intelligent Design" is not science - it is religion wearing a very thin disguise. That is why it is not allowed to be taught in public school. - Bob T. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:22:42 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071722420001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <m3a383l6mk1gd9rfff7t29qhkdoe8q44ts@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:58:27 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071058280001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <46811A14.2050701@osu.edu>, James Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> > [in response to <hpk0831bpvg6k5opju35jsrineoqapd09d@4ax.com>, >> >> > Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> ] >> >> > >> >> > So 68% of the people in Ohio want teachers to teach Evolution >> >> > and ID. However, evolutionists want to control what teachers >> >> > are able to teach. Unlike you, I believe the people that live >> >> > in Ohio should be allowed to have a voice in deciding school >> >> > curriculum. >> >> >> >> That 68% live under a constitution that protects the minority >> >> from the majority. This includes protection from having >> >> anyone's religion shoved down their throats by the government. >> >> >> >> Teaching your Biblical literalism as though it were science >> >> in a government-mandated class qualifies absolutely as >> >> "shoving your religion down my children's throat". This >> >> is true not just for non-Christians, but for all the Christians >> >> who are /not/ Biblical literalists. >> >> >> >> >> >> But you know this, Jason. You /show/ that you know this because >> >> you do NOT argue against evolution by using the constitutional >> >> argument -- which is a much stronger argument, if you can >> >> swing it. >> >> >> >> Why did our Founders add the First Amendment to the US >> >> Constitution? Because they saw the devastation brought >> >> by the wars over established churches in Europe. Is that >> >> devastation what you want for the United States? I don't >> >> know about you specifically, Jason, but some of your >> >> fellow Creationists are hoping for the End Times; war and >> >> destruction is a sign that Christ is coming, for them. >> >> >> >> What percentage of Ohioans would want Intelligent >> >> Design taught in their classrooms if they knew it >> >> was part of a plan to give Pestilence, War, Famine, and >> >> Death free rein in Ohio? >> >> >> >> Jim Burns >> > >> >If ID was taught in every biology class in America, none of those things >> >would happen. Thousands of children in each state learn about ID in >> >Christian schools and as part of home schooling programs. The graduates >> >don't cause pestilence, war, famine and death. You are paranoid about >> >nothing. Stalin was an atheist and he killed millions of people. >> >jason >> >> You should look at Stalin's history when he was growing up in a >> Christian household, being beaten by his dad and sent away to a seminary >> to become a priest. Do you have some evidence that his Christian >> upbringing didn't make him into the evil man he was? > >No--the typical communist has this point of view about religion: > >Religion is the opiate of the masses. > Yes. You are quite addicted. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:25:23 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071725240001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <gda383p79807j37f1ju8ibliueqh6kqp1e@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071108440001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >> >school curriculum. >> >> >> >> And they do, in every state even. >> >> >> >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >> >evolution to be taught. >> >> >> >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you >> >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to >> >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to >> >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, >> >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even >> >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to >> >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content >> >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that >> >> (non-existent) content. >> >> >> >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent >> >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" >> >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence >> >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers >> >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the >> >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, >> >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue >> >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. >> >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. >> > >> >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which >> >has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read the >> >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want to >> >learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: >> >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss >> > >> Jason, you keep ignoring that Pandas does not have a shred of scientific >> content to support ID/Creationism and that it was a Creationist textbook >> first. > >They advertise the Pandas book in the ICR newsletter. > Pandas is still full of lies, as is the rest of the IRC newletter. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <l7b383p45gskdp0v9cdfe7e4c7qibd086t@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:10:53 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071310530001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <fvq2835jq1l5hnd19r2chtq2071ckhaimt@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> .... >> >> You really should try to learn something about the law rather than >> >> guessing. Judges take things like the Constitution into account, not >> >> votes. Some of us like the Constitution. Why do you hate America? >> > >> >I don't hate America. >> >> You are advocating the destruction of the Constitution. >> >> >People like yourself appear to me to want judges to >> >determine the education policy in the various states. Was the judge in >> >that Dover case elected or appointed? >> >> You never read anything people tell you. If you had, you would know that >> Bush appointed him. He was a Federal District judge. This was a federal >> case. >> >> >I would prefer that the elected representives determine school policy and >> >not judges or evolutionists. >> >> So you don't care if the Bill of Rights is shredded. If a legislature >> declares that your particular religious sect is a criminal organization, >> that's fine with you. If you no longer have the Fifth Amendment to >> protect you, that's fine with you. >> >> People who immigrated here without proper papers have more respect for >> the law and for this country than you do. Maybe you should leave so we >> can have room for more illegals. >> >> >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people >> >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the >> >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. >> >> It depends on how the question is asked. >> >> If the question were asked properly, they would say no. People do not >> want religious doctrines taught in science class. > >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > Because they were not aware that ID is a religious doctrine that has no scientific support. Remember that the ID folks have been telling lies about ID for almost two decades. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:45:39 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071745390001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <f0b383haha6keoc6or4mu5tg1cj462naci@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:28:17 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071228180001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <4cp2831rq5i8fqa37g7o1h82oc5qi3b2en@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606071210030001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> ... >> >> >That is far better than unelected evolutionists >> >> >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with >> >> >how states are deciding education policy. >> >> >> >> Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? >> > >> > >> >I don't believe there should have been a court case. It's my opinion that >> >evolutionists should NOT take states to court if they decide to teach ID. >> >> The First Amendment tells us that your opinion is wrong. >> >> >The evolutionists should allow the representatives in each state to >> >determine education policy. >> >> Citizens establish policy. The vast majority of citizens want science >> taught. Only a few people want to destroy the Constitution. > >A poll in Ohio indicated that over 60% wanted both ID and evolution be >taught in the public school system. So what? ID is a religious doctrine. It cannot be taught in science class. If the ID/Creationists had not LIED about ID/Creationism, there would be very few people who were advocating the destruction of the First Amendment to teach a religious doctrine in a science class. You like lies. When did God tell you to lie? >> >> >Education policy should not be determined by >> >unelected evolutionists. >> >> It is not. >> >> > For example, in the state of Ohio, the wishes of >> >the people were not taken into consideration by the evolutionists. I don't >> >know whether or not the judge took the wishes of the people or their >> >elected representatives into consideration prior to his decision--I doubt >> >it--but am only guessing. >> >> The school board was thrown out after the trial. The people of Dover >> were embarrassed that they had been used by their supposedly 'Christian' >> friends. You are still advocating the destruction of the First >> Amendment. >> >> Tell me, since you want creation myths taught in science class, will you >> accept all of them or only the one you believe in? > Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <9mc383h3hab9qvkcnk737h3oe47gb607l5@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:00:00 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2606071200010001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <1182873774.679677.7820@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > ... > > >> > >> The Moslems of the Middle East are not involved in the Sudan. You are > >> making =EDt up as you go along. > > > >Are there any Arab Muslims in Darfur? > > > The people in Khartoum and other areas of northern Sudan consider > themselves to be Arabs. I googled this term "Arab Muslims in Darfur". I found several sites which indicated that Muslims in the middle east are funding the Arab Muslims in Darfur. It's possible the muslims in the middle east are letting the Arab muslims in Darfur do their "dirty work". Only time will tell if they will eventully take over the entire country. Muslims from the Middle East may have a long term goal related to taking total control of the Sudan. As of now, the attention is focused only on Darfur. The oil wells are in the south and that might be the ultimate goal of the muslims from the middle east. As you know, the Muslims in the Middle East know the importance of oil wells. Jason Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:38:08 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071738080001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <ama383tt5lqob7ei5h7hgk4apsu7k62cj9@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: .... >> Evolution is about the change in life over time. You have been corrected >> on that about a thousand times, yet still seem incapable of learning >> such a simple fact. > >I made the evolution comment in response to this comment: > >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. > >One the results of not teaching ID in the public schools is the rapid >growth of the home schooling movement. In addition, many large churches >has opened "Christian Schools". I once visited a large church that I don't >attend. I noticed about 30 little children playing. I was told that they >recently started a Christian school since the parents wanted the children >to learn about God. Many Christian parents and rich parents have now >given up on the public schools. Evolutionists are one of the reasons. One >of reasons they do not want ID to be taught is because they are afraid >that children would realize that it makes more sense than evolution. Of >course, no poster in this newsgroup would admit that was one of the >reasons. In the South, many wealthy and middle class people abandoned the public schools because they didn't want their children to have to go to school with black children. Then they voted against adequate taxes to fund the public schools they abandoned. I can see how you equate the enemies of science with the racists. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <58c3839gt7bk6jqfn6225rh8grk1f537qn@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:57:41 -0000, in alt.talk.creationism > Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in > <1182841061.572745.121310@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>: > >On Jun 26, 2:08 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> csmonitor.com - The Christian Science Monitor Online > > > >Why do you never go to reputible sources and instead go to sources > >that you know full well will lie to you and tell you what you want to > >know? I guess it's because you're an idiot. > > > >Martin > > > However strange the religion that supports it, the Monitor has long had > a good reputation. Remember, the article makes it quite clear that > Jason's original claim that this was Moslems attacking Christians, is > completely false. I think this is a good first step on Jason's possible > recovery from total delusion about his religious doctrines. You made some good points. The report that I posted was related to Darfur. Upon request, I'll find a site related to what is happening in the southern part of Sudan. jason Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:19:33 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071719340001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <h793835evod0h2gogp22l9e83dgk7f533s@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: .... >> So you had nothing regarding either creationism or ID. Oh well. > >The point of the article applies to the Dover case: It was a clear example >of "legislation by mandate" (or fiat) by a single judge against the will >of the democratic majority. No, it wasn't. It was an example of elected officials trying to bring an illegal religious doctrine into public schools. They had never said that they were going to do that and they were voted out of office at the next election. The democratic majority was horrified at the stealth creationism that the religious zealots had introduced. >I have made this point several different times but it appears that it flew >over your head: You have proven that you should never, ever accuse others of missing a point. >Legislation (as per the constitution) should be made by elected >representatives and not as a result of by judicial fiat. If you re-read >the article with this in mind--you will understand my point of view. The >will of the democratic majority is taken into consideration by elected >representatives but is usually not taken into consideration by unelected >judges. So, aside from the fact that the courts decision was not judicial fiat, that the people who had elected the board did not want this stealth creationism, that you want minorities to be oppressed and that you are demonstrating a hatred of the First Amendment, what are we supposed to learn from you? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071803010001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <yrigi.132$ca.117@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2606071725240001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <gda383p79807j37f1ju8ibliueqh6kqp1e@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-2606071108440001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >Silberstein >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >> >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in >> >> >> >deciding >> >> >> >school curriculum. >> >> >> >> >> >> And they do, in every state even. >> >> >> >> >> >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >> >> >evolution to be taught. >> >> >> >> >> >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that >> >> >> you >> >> >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide >> >> >> to >> >> >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to >> >> >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of >> >> >> ID, >> >> >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID >> >> >> (even >> >> >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to >> >> >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no >> >> >> content >> >> >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over >> >> >> that >> >> >> (non-existent) content. >> >> >> >> >> >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an >> >> >> Intelligent >> >> >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what >> >> >> "Intelligent" >> >> >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect >> >> >> intelligence >> >> >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the >> >> >> designers >> >> >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the >> >> >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That >> >> >> is, >> >> >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a >> >> >> clue >> >> >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those >> >> >> questions. >> >> >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. >> >> > >> >> >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" >> >> >which >> >> >has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read the >> >> >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want to >> >> >learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: >> >> >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss >> >> > >> >> Jason, you keep ignoring that Pandas does not have a shred of >> >> scientific >> >> content to support ID/Creationism and that it was a Creationist >> >> textbook >> >> first. >> > >> > They advertise the Pandas book in the ICR newsletter. >> >> SO WHAT??? Did you refute his statement? No. > > I have stated in other posts that I have not read the Pandas book--only > the review. Then if you are going to stand here and defend the book I suggest you read it. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:12:15 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071812150001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <roc383hj739l9d8vjqnceq3nslgetmmjm4@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:53:44 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> gudloos@yahoo.com wrote in >> <1182873224.668805.269050@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: >> >On 26 Jun., 01:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> In article <1182812406.148531.4...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> > On 25 Jun., 08:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > In article ><1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob >> >> >> >> > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >> >> > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > > > In article ><1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "= >> >> > Bob >> >> >> >> > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >> >> > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. >> >> >> >> > > > > > <snip article> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious >nutcases >> >> > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that >> >> > > > > > America was more like Iran. >> >> >> >> > > > > > - Bob T. >> >> >> >> > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were >Christians. >> >> >> >> > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious >> >> > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim >> >> > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would >> >> > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition >knocking on >> >> > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. >> >> >> >> > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, >> >> > > > including freedom from religion. >> >> >> >> > > > - Bob T. >> >> >> >> > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take >> >> > > over the world--one country at a time. >> >> >> >> > It is also the goal of Christians. You said so. >> >> >> >> There is a BIG difference. If people refuse to become Muslims, the Muslims >> >> chop off thier heads. If people refuse to become Christians, we don't harm >> >> them in any way. Has any Christian ever harmed you or threatened you? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > They are presently committing >> >> > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. >> >> >> >> > All the Moslems are doing that? Even the ones that are at war with >> >> > each other? Stop being such a fool. >> >> >> >> > After they take over control >> >> > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over >> >> > > surrounding countries. >> >> >> >> > The Sudan is a Muslem country and has been for many centuries. >> >> >> >> The Muslims from Middle east are taking over the Sudan. They are either >> >> killing the Black Muslims or forcing them to leave the country. >> > >> >The ones doing the killing are nomadic tribesmen in the Sudan. The >> >Blacks are animists and Christians. You are once again exposed as an >> >ignorant liar. >> >> You are confusing two different wars. The war in the south was the >> Moslems of the north against the animists and Christians of the south. >> The war in Darfur is more tribal, but generally everyone involved is >> Moslem. >> >> This is a tribal war. There is some sense in which it is racist, but the >> supposedly Arab north and the Janjaweed are not notably lighter black >> than the blacks in Darfur who are being killed. >> >> ... > >I posted an article related to Darfur. The article indicated that Arab >Muslims are committing genocide against black muslims (in Darfur). I >suggest that you google this term: "Arab Muslims in Darfur" > I suggest that you stop acting like an idiot. You didn't read what I said. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:21:12 -0400, in alt.talk.creationism "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in <N3igi.112$ca.76@bignews4.bellsouth.net>: > >"Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >news:Jason-2606071702360001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish >> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> >>> Jason wrote: >>> >>> > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the >>> > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother >>> > was >>> > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >>> >>> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >>> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >>> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >>> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child >> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket >> that was buried in the dirt. > >Not unless someone like you has told the child previously that there is a >heaven. See what happens when you lie. > Ronald Reagan's story about the child, the pile of manure and the pony comes to mind. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <l5f383tuep6o065aglqv5ce6vmbqnlup34@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:38:08 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2606071738080001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <ama383tt5lqob7ei5h7hgk4apsu7k62cj9@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > ... > > >> Evolution is about the change in life over time. You have been corrected > >> on that about a thousand times, yet still seem incapable of learning > >> such a simple fact. > > > >I made the evolution comment in response to this comment: > > > >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from home from > >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken care of. > >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. > > > >One the results of not teaching ID in the public schools is the rapid > >growth of the home schooling movement. In addition, many large churches > >has opened "Christian Schools". I once visited a large church that I don't > >attend. I noticed about 30 little children playing. I was told that they > >recently started a Christian school since the parents wanted the children > >to learn about God. Many Christian parents and rich parents have now > >given up on the public schools. Evolutionists are one of the reasons. One > >of reasons they do not want ID to be taught is because they are afraid > >that children would realize that it makes more sense than evolution. Of > >course, no poster in this newsgroup would admit that was one of the > >reasons. > > In the South, many wealthy and middle class people abandoned the public > schools because they didn't want their children to have to go to school > with black children. Then they voted against adequate taxes to fund the > public schools they abandoned. I can see how you equate the enemies of > science with the racists. I have not mentioned race related to this issue. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:41:18 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606071741180001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <MbydnUGQM6MSMBzbnZ2dnUVZ_vyunZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish ><jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish >> > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the >> >>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother was >> >>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> > >> > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine >> >> Have to? Or have what happen? >> >> > after telling the child >> > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket >> > that was buried in the dirt. >> >> I can only assume that you are the child you are talking >> about. Would you lose your mind and die of grief if someone >> told you the truth about death? >> >> Life involves sorrow and happiness, pleasure and pain. >> Making up lies to minimize the sorrow and pain also >> diminishes the sweetness of their opposites. > >No--I was not the child--all my family members were Christians. > So you've never considered the possibility that the story you are telling is completely wrong and harmful in some ways. Quote
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