Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 8:04 am, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:37:45 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2506072237450...@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <1182828176.211047.202...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> On Jun 26, 9:05 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <1182816781.073818.317...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > On Jun 26, 8:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > >Martin > >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > >> > > > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > >> > > > > outright. Their loss. > > >> > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > >> > > > state school should quit. > > >> > > Leaving you with no qualified teachers and an ignorant population. > >> > > Which explains everything. > > >> > > No teacher in good conscience knowingly "teaches" lies. > > >> > You are assumming that most of the qualified teachers would leave. That > >> > may or may not be true. They would lose their retirement pay. > > >> To hell with retirement pay. I'd devote my time to a lawsuit against > >> those who forced me to quit because they wanted me to lie to > >> students. And I'd win. And there'd be thousands of teachers who > >> would do likewise. They can't force teachers to lie to their > >> students. It would be a violation of their constitution rights. > >It's now easy for me to understand why the home schooling movement is > >growing and the reason why so many large churches are now starting their > >own Christian schools. Many of the rich people in this town send their > >children to a Catholic prep school. I don't blame all of those parents for > >giving up on the public school system. > > Catholics don't accept your anti-science heresies. Indeed. Since when do Catholic schools teach that the Earth is flat? Martin Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt >> >Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio >> >> >wanted >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >> > >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >> > >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > > Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. > The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next > time. > Jason > Jason Brown had nothing to do with ID especially since ID was not thought up yet as a new lie for Creationism. Now more to the point of the case if and when the ID people come up with an actual scientific theory it can be considered as being taught in classrooms, but they do not even claim they have that. They have nothing to teach not a thing is was all a scam and now they are looking for their next scam and next group of marks to pull it on. Try not and be among the marks this time for these conmen in labcoats they are trying to sell you snake oil. Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 8:19 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > I have made this point several different times but it appears that it flew > over your head: > Legislation (as per the constitution) should be made by elected > representatives and not as a result of by judicial fiat. If you re-read > the article with this in mind--you will understand my point of view. The > will of the democratic majority is taken into consideration by elected > representatives but is usually not taken into consideration by unelected > judges. Get this through your thick head, Jason: you are endorsing the removal of people's constitutionally guaranteed protection against the promotion of somebody else's religion. You're a nazi, Jason. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 8:25 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <gda383p79807j37f1ju8ibliueqh6kq...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-2606071108440...@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443...@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > > ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > >> (Jason) in > > >> <Jason-2506071804250...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > >> [snip] > > > >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > > >> >school curriculum. > > > >> And they do, in every state even. > > > >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > > >> >evolution to be taught. > > > >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you > > >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to > > >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to > > >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, > > >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even > > >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to > > >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content > > >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that > > >> (non-existent) content. > > > >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent > > >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" > > >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence > > >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers > > >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the > > >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, > > >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue > > >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. > > >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. > > > >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which > > >has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read the > > >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want to > > >learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: > > >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss > > > Jason, you keep ignoring that Pandas does not have a shred of scientific > > content to support ID/Creationism and that it was a Creationist textbook > > first. > > They advertise the Pandas book in the ICR newsletter. That should have been a clue right there, Jason. You shouldn't trust anything written in an ICR newsletter. Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182920143.084925.38150@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 21:01, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182873224.668805.269...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 26 Jun., 01:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182812406.148531.4...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On 25 Jun., 08:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com= > >, "=3D > > > Bob > > > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups= > .com=3D > > > >, "=3D3D > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > > > > > > > > > > <snip article> > > > > > > > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious= > nut=3D > > > cases > > > > > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wis= > h th=3D > > > at > > > > > > > > > America was more like Iran. > > > > > > > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Chri= > stia=3D > > > ns. > > > > > > > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstiti= > ous > > > > > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under M= > uslim > > > > > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision= > wou=3D > > > ld > > > > > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knoc= > king=3D > > > on > > > > > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > > > > > > > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of free= > dom, > > > > > > > including freedom from religion. > > > > > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > > > > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to= > take > > > > > > over the world--one country at a time. > > > > > > > It is also the goal of Christians. You said so. > > > > > > There is a BIG difference. If people refuse to become Muslims, the Mu= > slims > > > > chop off thier heads. If people refuse to become Christians, we don't= > harm > > > > them in any way. Has any Christian ever harmed you or threatened you? > > > > > > > They are presently committing > > > > > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. > > > > > > > All the Moslems are doing that? Even the ones that are at war with > > > > > each other? Stop being such a fool. > > > > > > > After they take over control > > > > > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take= > over > > > > > > surrounding countries. > > > > > > > The Sudan is a Muslem country and has been for many centuries. > > > > > > The Muslims from Middle east are taking over the Sudan. They are eith= > er > > > > killing the Black Muslims or forcing them to leave the country. > > > > > The ones doing the killing are nomadic tribesmen in the Sudan. The > > > Blacks are animists and Christians. You are once again exposed as an > > > ignorant liar. > > > > > > Google--Genocide in Darfur > > > > > Try it yourself idiot. > > > > > > > One expert believes they will eventually take over > > > > > > Spain without firing a shot. Mullahs are encouraging young follow= > ers =3D > > > to > > > > > > move to Spain. After 55% of the population of Spain are Muslims, = > they=3D > > > will > > > > > > vote only for Muslims. Those politicians will vote to establish t= > he s=3D > > > ame > > > > > > sorts of laws they now have in Moslem countries. > > > > > > jason- Skjul tekst i anf=3D3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > > > Golly!- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn -- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > Stop making up stuff. > > > > Are there any Arab Muslims in Darfur?- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Is the Christian Science Monitor article correct? Yes, I believe it is correct. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182923304.937231.243630@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 8:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the > > > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother was > > > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. > > > > > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted > > > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise > > > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to > > > be adults with poorly developed minds. > > > > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child > > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket > > that was buried in the dirt. > > Children can accept the truth. Why can't you? > > Martin I can. Christians believe there is a heaven. Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1182923304.937231.243630@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 27, 8:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish >> >> <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: >> > Jason wrote: >> >> > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that >> > > the >> > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >> > > grandmother was >> > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> > be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child >> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the >> casket >> that was buried in the dirt. > > Children can accept the truth. Why can't you? > > Martin Martin, now you are going beyond the realms of science and into the realms of philosophy and religion, which is something, science is not good at doing. Since we have nothing we can say scientifically on what happens after death, it is not possible for anyone to say. It is the forts of religion and philosophy to ponder that which comes after and to give comfort to those who remain behind. As an atheist you do not believe anything is beyond death, but for the most of the world and throughout history of mankind this has not been the case. Since there is no ways of knowing one ways or another, why would you insist that your thoughts are the final word on the subject? We have all chastised Jason for trying to make science and religion mix it is no more right for you to mix religion and science. Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 8:38 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > One the results of not teaching ID in the public schools is the rapid > growth of the home schooling movement. In addition, many large churches > has opened "Christian Schools". I once visited a large church that I don't > attend. I noticed about 30 little children playing. I was told that they > recently started a Christian school since the parents wanted the children > to learn about God. Many Christian parents and rich parents have now > given up on the public schools. Then these children will grow up to become ignorant adults who, like you, are laughed at by people with actual educations. This is natural selection in action, Jason. Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182921004.892004.178800@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 22:28, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182888536.294395.68...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > snip > > > > > Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque?- S= > kjul=3D > > > tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > Why do Christians celebrate a holiday named after a pagan goddess? > > > > > You failed to answer the above question. > > I will try again (not that it will make any difference). Neither > Christians or Moslems worship pagan deities. Both Christians and > Moslems have both names and symbols derived from such worship. Try > and see if you can understand that. > > > > > I don't know if that is true. If it is true, I don't know the reason. I am > > not an expert related to Bible history. A Jehovahs Witness told me > > something about the origin of Christmas. I don't worship any pagan > > goddesses.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > And neither do Moslems, even though both religions have inherited > names and symbols derived from pagan worship. I understand your point of view. I found out today that a former Muslim that is now a Christian agrees with your understanding of these issues. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182921562.532086.9040@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 27 Jun., 01:26, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182892095.064389.276...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 26 Jun., 20:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182873694.135711.325...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >snip > > > > > > > > I did not state that Christian Arabs are not really Christians. > > Christian > > > > > > Arabs are really Christians even if they call God by the name of > > Allah.- = > > > > > Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > > Good, you admit your entire argument has been invalid. > > > > > > Not true--The Christians Arabs will eventually understand (as a result of > > > > reading their Bibles) that God is vastly different than the moon > > > > god-- > > > > > Eventually understand? They do not believe in any moon god now. > > > > The Quran indicates that the moon god is unknowable. > > First of all that is irrelevant, since we are talking about Christian > Arabs. Secondly it is not true; the Quran forbids worship of the Moon > god. > > >The moon God is so > > exalted that no man can ever personally know Allah. In his book that is > > entitled, "Jesus and Muhammad, Mark Gabriel, a former devout Muslim, says: > > "If you ask a Muslim, Do you how much Allah loves your? he will respond, > > 'I don't know how much he loves me. Only Allah knows.' > > And he is not talking about the Moon god. That is correct. He believe Allah and Yahweh are the same God. > > > > > > Mark tells the story about a famous bumper sticker that is placed on the > > cars and shops of former Muslims that are now Christians--the bumper > > sticker states: > > "Allah Mahabe" which means "God is Love". Those words are NEVER put > > together in the Quran. He never understood the meaning of the bumper > > sticker until after he became a Christian. > > > > In other words, Muslims that become Christians eventually understand as a > > result of reading the Holy Bible that the true God is vastly different > > than the God mentioned in the Quran. > > We were talking about Christian Arabs not Moslems who become > Christians, and the god in the Quran is not the Moon god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >which is a false God. If those Arabs call God "Allah" instead of > > > > Jehovah or Yahweh--that is not a problem.- > > > > > And that would be because the god they believe in is the same as > > > Allah, Jehovah, God, Gud, etc. Once again, thank you for admitting > > > your entire argument is invalid, that it is not the name used but what > > > is believed about the deity that matters. The fact that the word > > > Easter is derived from pagan religions also does not mean Christians > > > believers in fertility goddesses. Of course all of this also points > > > out to all the copying and adapting that has occurred between > > > religions.- > > You have totally ignored the above. Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 8:45 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f0b383haha6keoc6or4mu5tg1cj462n...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:28:17 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-2606071228180...@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <4cp2831rq5i8fqa37g7o1h82oc5qi3b...@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > > ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:10:02 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > >> (Jason) in > > >> <Jason-2606071210030...@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > ... > > >> >That is far better than unelected evolutionists > > >> >deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with > > >> >how states are deciding education policy. > > > >> Do you have an actual legal objection to the Dover case? > > > >I don't believe there should have been a court case. It's my opinion that > > >evolutionists should NOT take states to court if they decide to teach ID. > > > The First Amendment tells us that your opinion is wrong. > > > >The evolutionists should allow the representatives in each state to > > >determine education policy. > > > Citizens establish policy. The vast majority of citizens want science > > taught. Only a few people want to destroy the Constitution. > > A poll in Ohio indicated that over 60% wanted both ID and evolution be > taught in the public school system. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the Dover case as Dover is in Pennsylvania. Martin Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <4681fb79$0$30597$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) in > >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >Silberstein > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> [snip] > >> >> > >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio > >> >> >wanted > >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > >> >> > >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > >> > > >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > >> > > >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. > >> > >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with > >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the > >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled > >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > > > > Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. > > The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > > religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next > > time. > > Jason > > > > > Jason Brown had nothing to do with ID especially since ID was not thought up > yet as a new lie for Creationism. Now more to the point of the case if and > when the ID people come up with an actual scientific theory it can be > considered as being taught in classrooms, but they do not even claim they > have that. They have nothing to teach not a thing is was all a scam and now > they are looking for their next scam and next group of marks to pull it on. > Try not and be among the marks this time for these conmen in labcoats they > are trying to sell you snake oil. I hope that the people in the ID movement do a better job during the next court case. It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the children will realize that ID makes more sense than evolution so they will spend millions to keep any school systems from teaching ID. If they were really sure that evolution would win the competition--they would not be concerned if it was taught in the public schools. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182920697.691354.172560@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 22:22, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182888250.489184.198...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > Martin > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> > In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c= > om>, > > > > > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> > > > In article > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > In article > > > > > >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse= > .net>, > > > > > >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers > > > > > >> > > > > > to teach ID > > > > > > > >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... > > > > > > > >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > > > > > > > >> > > > > So what's your problem? > > > > > > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes= > . Of > > > > > >> > > > course, > > > > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > > > > > > > >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science > > (self-admitted) > > > > > >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should > > the US > > > > > >> > > give up religious freedom? > > > > > > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the > > people that > > > > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public > > schools. > > > > > >> > I > > > > > >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should > > be taught > > > > > >> > in > > > > > >> > the public schools. > > > > > > > >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth w= > as > > > > > >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > > > > >> outright. Their loss. > > > > > > > >> Martin > > > > > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum = > in a > > > > > > state school should quit. > > > > > > > You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what > > science > > > > > is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific > > > > > illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science > > curriculum? > > > > > > No-- > > > > > In that case what you say below must be wrong. > > > > > >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > > > > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID= > and > > > > evolution to be taught.- > > > > > And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not > > > determine the science curriculum. > > > > I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. I believe that > > elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected > > evolutionists. Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be > > taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes > > more sense than evolution.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Biologists are experts in science. The majority of the voters in Ohio > are not, and you just agreed that people ignorant of science should > not > determine the science curriculum. I trust the elected members of school boards more than I trust unelected evolutionists. They have an agenda which is to prevent a competing theory from being taught. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like this one: > > >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them that Santa Claus is watching them either Martin Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182920697.691354.172560@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 22:22, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <1182888250.489184.198...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>> In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >>>>> <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >>>>>>> In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >>> Martin >>>>>>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c= >> om>, >>>>>>>>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> In article >>> <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>>>>> <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse= >> .net>, >>>>>>>>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I want to make it legal for teachers >>>>>>>>>>>>> to teach ID >>>>>>>>>>>> But it is legal to do that... >>>>>>>>>>>> ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >>>>>>>>>>>> So what's your problem? >>>>>>>>>>> I was referring to high school science and biology classes= >> . Of >>>>>>>>>>> course, >>>>>>>>>>> evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >>>>>>>>>> Why should a person with no understanding of science >>> (self-admitted) >>>>>>>>>> decide what should be taught in a science class? Why should >>> the US >>>>>>>>>> give up religious freedom? >>>>>>>>> I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the >>> people that >>>>>>>>> live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >>> schools. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects should >>> be taught >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the public schools. >>>>>>>> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth w= >> as >>>>>>>> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit >>>>>>>> outright. Their loss. >>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum = >> in a >>>>>>> state school should quit. >>>>>> You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate what >>> science >>>>>> is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a scientific >>>>>> illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >>> curriculum? >>> >>>>> No-- >>>> In that case what you say below must be wrong. >>>>> but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >>>>> school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID= >> and >>>>> evolution to be taught.- >>>> And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not >>>> determine the science curriculum. >>> I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. I believe that >>> elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected >>> evolutionists. Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be >>> taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes >>> more sense than evolution.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>> >>> - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>> >>> - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> Biologists are experts in science. The majority of the voters in Ohio >> are not, and you just agreed that people ignorant of science should >> not >> determine the science curriculum. > > I trust the elected members of school boards more than I trust unelected > evolutionists. They have an agenda which is to prevent a competing theory > from being taught. > > You shouldn't. Some school board members get themselves elected specifically to introduce their own fundamentalist Christianist agenda into the public schools. Fortunately the electorate generally gets wise to them and flings them out on their talibanistic asses. Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182923304.937231.243630@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 8:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish >>> >>> <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: >>>> Jason wrote: >>>>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the >>>>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her > grandmother was >>>>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >>>> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >>>> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >>>> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >>>> be adults with poorly developed minds. >>> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child >>> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket >>> that was buried in the dirt. >> Children can accept the truth. Why can't you? >> >> Martin > > I can. Christians believe there is a heaven. Did you notice how you conflated belief and truth? That is your basic problem - you cannot separate what you believe from what is true. Sometimes they are the same, but sometimes they are not. The problem is that you do not differentiate. > > Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182923955.184406.146760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 8:19 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > I have made this point several different times but it appears that it flew > > over your head: > > Legislation (as per the constitution) should be made by elected > > representatives and not as a result of by judicial fiat. If you re-read > > the article with this in mind--you will understand my point of view. The > > will of the democratic majority is taken into consideration by elected > > representatives but is usually not taken into consideration by unelected > > judges. > > Get this through your thick head, Jason: you are endorsing the removal > of people's constitutionally guaranteed protection against the > promotion of somebody else's religion. > > You're a nazi, Jason. > > Martin Martin, You appear to have trust in judges. In 1857, the Supreme Court ruled that slavery was legal. You may want to google Dred Scot Decision. Do you believe that was an excellent court decision? Jason Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 8:52 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > Sorry--I was under the impression that school boards and the state > sectratary of education made decisions as to what courses should be > taught. No, Jason, it's qualified teachers who make these decisions. The school board's only responsibility is to ensure that the curriculum meets the standards necessary for university admittance. Indirectly, it is the content of univerisity courses that determine what needs to be taught at the high school level. Martin Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >>> In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >>> <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >>>> (Jason) in >>>> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> [snip] >>>> >>>>> The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted >>>>> both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >>>> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >>> It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >>> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > > Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. > The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next > time. > Jason They would do much better were they to find some actual valid science that supported their position. Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182920084.264354.52290@k29g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 21:00, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <1182873774.679677.7...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> On 26 Jun., 02:12, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>> In article <1182813471.492210.280...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>>> On 25 Jun., 20:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>> In article <1182770555.111873.24...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,= >> Mar=3D >>>> tin >>>>>>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jun 25, 2:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups= >> .com=3D >>>>> , "Bob >>>>>>>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>> <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob >>>>>>>>>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. >>>>>>>>>>>> <snip article> >>>>>>>>>>>> Iran is an excellent example of what happens when relig= >> ious >>>>> nutcases >>>>>>>>>>>> are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly= >> wis=3D >>>> h that >>>>>>>>>>>> America was more like Iran. >>>>>>>>>>>> - Bob T. >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were = >> Chri=3D >>>> stians. >>>>>>>>>> Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by supers= >> titi=3D >>>> ous >>>>>>>>>> fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live und= >> er M=3D >>>> uslim >>>>>>>>>> religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envi= >> sion=3D >>>> would >>>>>>>>>> be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition = >> knoc=3D >>>> king on >>>>>>>>>> our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. >>>>>>>>>> I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of = >> free=3D >>>> dom, >>>>>>>>>> including freedom from religion. >>>>>>>>>> - Bob T. >>>>>>>>> I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims ar= >> e to=3D >>>> take >>>>>>>>> over the world--one country at a time. >>>>>>>> Oddly enough I don't see that many Muslim missionaries today. = >> How >>>>>>>> many countries have muslims invaded over the past ten years? N= >> one. >>>>>>>> How many muslim countries has the US invaded over the past ten = >> year=3D >>>> s? >>>>>>>> Two. >>>>>>>> If at all possible, try to make statements actually supported by >>>>>>>> facts, Jason. >>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> Good point--our troops will eventually leave Iraq and Afghanistan= >> . If=3D >>>> the >>>>>>> leaders of either of those countries asked Bush to remove our tro= >> ops =3D >>>> from >>>>>>> their countries--Bush would do it. >>>>>>> The Muslims from the middle east are in the process of taking ove= >> r the >>>>>>> Sudan. >>>>>> In the real world Moslems have controlled the Sudan for centuries. >>>>>> At present, they are committing genocide against the people in >>>>>>> Darfur. >>>>>> People supposedly supported by the government of the Sudan are doing >>>>>> that not Moslems as a group, and Darfur is part of the Sudan. >>>>>>> Various experts are concerned that once they have total control >>>>>>> over the Sudan--they will use the Sudan as a staging area to take= >> ove=3D >>>> r the >>>>>>> surrounding African countries. >>>>>> Name one of these experts. The Sudan is barely able to take over t= >> he >>>>>> Sudan. Many of the surrounding countries have been Moslem for a >>>>>> thousand years. Your experts seem to have missed a lot. >>>>>>> You may want to google "genocide in Darfur" >>>>>>> if you don't believe me. >>>>>> Nobody believes you. I doubt that you believe you. >>>>> The muslims from the middle east want to have total contrl of the Sud= >> an. >>>>> Upon request, I'll post an article about it.- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8r= >> selste=3D >>>> gn - >>>>> - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - >>>> The Moslems of the Middle East are not involved in the Sudan. You are >>>> making =3DEDt up as you go along. >>> Are there any Arab Muslims in Darfur?- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>> >>> - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> The relevant question is why do you argue for a position that has >> already been demonstrated to be wrong? The article you yourself >> posted contradicts your description of the situation in Darfur. In >> any event I would be very surprised if there were no Arabs in Darfur, >> or Frenchmen or Americans etc., but you are still completely wrong; >> and you have provided documentation that shows you are wrong. > > Yes, I found out from my web search that the Christians live in the > southern part of the Sudan. I was under the impression there were some > Christians living in Darfur but found out I was wrong. There are Arabs in > Darfur that are funded by Arabs from the Middle East. The Arabs in the > Middle East probably have a long range plan that involves taking over all > oil wells in the Sudan. I only posted one of the reports that I read. Probably? Jason, where is your Christian charity? If you have evidence, produce it. If you don't, this sort of baseless speculation is rumormongering and talebearing. One might be Christian, but the other probably isn't. > Jason > > Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 26 Jun., 22:16, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article <1182887737.836228.164...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>> In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>>> snip >>>> Martin, >>>> I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition that >>>> Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find out the >>>> reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. >>>> Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the >>> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. >> This is from Wikipedia: >> >> Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is >> the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, >> observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early >> April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the >> moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe >> occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the >> period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, >> called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season >> lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now >> officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the >> Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. >> >> Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a >> non-religious holiday. > > And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. > I regard Christianity as being closer to paganism than Judaism or Islam because Christianity is the only "monotheistic" religion that has a deity mating with a human, that divides its deity into two or three parts, and is the only one to limit its god with a definition of what it is. All three are attributes of paganism. Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182913159.985342.95360@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 2:34 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <1182871741.750936.67...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> On 26 Jun., 01:05, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>> In article <1182811351.557959.227...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>>> On 25 Jun., 06:51, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>> In article <8oKdnUvAwJeWqeLbnZ2dnUVZ_qjin...@sti.net>, "David V." >>>>>>> <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Jason wrote: >>>>>>>>> I disagree. Evolution is a theory. >>>>>>>> As I explained to you before, you do not know the definition of >>>>>>>> the word 'theory,' and you got it wrong even after seeing it in a >>>>>>>> dictionary. >>>>>>>>> I looked up the word Evolution in my Webster's Dictionary..... >>>>>>>> And you still don't get it. >>>>>>>> Is this feigned ignorance on purpose? >>>>>>> These two words were found on page 6 of the November 2004 issue of >>>>>>> National Geographic: >>>>>>> EVOLUTIONARY THEORY... >>>>>> Yes, the theories that explain the fact of evolution, just like the >>>>>> theory of gravity explains the fact of gravity. You do understand >>>>>> that, don't you? Too bad you are too dishonest and cowardly to stop >>>>>> lying about it. >>>>> I re-read the article related to evolution that was published in the >>>>> Nov/2004 issue of National Geographic. The author of the article made it >>>>> clear that evolution was a theory. >>>>> He made this statement on page 8: >>>>> "Evolution is both a beautiful concept and an important one, more > crucial >>>>> nowadays to human welfare, to medical science, and to our > understanding of >>>>> the world than ever before. It's also deeply persuasive--a theory > you can >>>>> take to the bank...." >>>>> Various members of this newsgroup appear to believe that evolution is a >>>>> fact but the author of the article that was printed in National > Geographic >>>>> disagrees with you. >>>>> Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>>>> - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>>> No he doesn't, but no amount of explanation will get you to see it. >>>> It is a theory; the theory that explains the fact. Equivocation is a >>>> favorite, dishonest tactic used by trolls like you. >>> We are in agreement--evolution is a theory. Yes, the theory explains the >>> facts that are backed up with evidence. >> Remember this the next time you claim there is no evidence supporting >> evolution. >> >> Martin > > I have stated in other posts that I support Natural Selection. > > So do I, and I vote! Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 9:00 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > <Jason-2606071316460...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >In article <1182887737.836228.164...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > >gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > >> > snip > > > >> > Martin, > > >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition that > > >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find > out the > > >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > > >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. > > > >This is from Wikipedia: > > > >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is > > >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, > > >observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early > > >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the > > >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe > > >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the > > >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, > > >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season > > >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now > > >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the > > >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. > > > >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a > > >non-religious holiday. > > > But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility festival. > > Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to > convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? He never existed, Jason. It's your Bible that says he existed. And it also says he rose on Monday, THREE DAYS after the day before the Jewish Sabbath. Martin Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182911875.817851.235980@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 26, 7:06 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <5uf383532574a8lci3bngd22thrsgvk...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:02:02 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>> <Jason-2606071802020...@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>> In article <d6d383tpv8ln55bk4g3lp588704ta04...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:50:05 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>>>> <Jason-2506072150060...@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>>>> In article <m6r083hfa4oebpf4a56skimde32a9it...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:27:34 -0700, in alt.atheism >>>>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>>>>>> <Jason-2506071827340...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>>>>>> In article <mip083tkkqhcp757tku7i60mga5nmhp...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>>>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:49:48 -0700, in alt.atheism >>>>>>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>>>>>>>> <Jason-2506071749490...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>>>>>>>> In article <r0n083d7l69bkbc3m7p60j3l60hlme9...@4ax.com>, > Free Lunch >>>>>>>>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:46:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>>>>>>>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>>>>>>>>>> <Jason-2506071046360...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <stqv7396nu5e3jsncsntpea7hi1dvcr...@4ax.com>, >>> John Baker >>>>>>>>>>>>> <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:28:42 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 Jun., 03:35, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those people that believe Yahweh and Allah are > the same >>>>>>>>> God--please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain why there is a symbol of a crescent moon > on top of >>>>>>>>> every Mormon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mosque in the world? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, Jason. Just as soon as you tell me where I >>> might find a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormon mosque. <G> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry--I meant Muslim Mosque. >>>>>>>>>>>> Which Mosque would you be willing to go into and tell the >>> worshippers >>>>>>>>>>>> that they do not worship the God of Abraham? What > evidence can you >>>>>>>>>>>> provide them that you are right and that Mohammed lied > to them? >>>>>>>>>>> Hubal and Allah the Moon God? >>>>>>>>>>> Islam: Truth or Myth? start page >>>>>>>>>>> Introduction to basic facts of history: >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 > BC. The >>>>>>>>>>> crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon >>>>> worship as far >>>>>>>>>>> back as 2000 BC. >>>>>>>>>>> 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of >>> the Kabah. >>>>>>>>>>> 3. This Hubal was a moon god. >>>>>>>>>>> 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god >>>>> Hubal was >>>>>>>>>>> placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before > Muhammad. >>>>> This may >>>>>>>>>>> in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top > of every >>>>> minaret >>>>>>>>>>> at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of >>> every mosque >>>>>>>>>>> throughout the world: >>>>>>>>>>> About four hundred years before the birth of >>> Muhammad one Amr >>>>>>>>>>> bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had >>> put an idol >>>>>>>>>>> called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief >>>>> deities of >>>>>>>>>>> the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz >>>>> Ghulam Sarwar >>>>>>>>>>> (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim) >>>>>>>>>>> 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This > is not >>>>> a proper >>>>>>>>>>> name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning >>>>> "the god". >>>>>>>>>>> Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local >>> tribal pagan >>>>>>>>>>> god as "al-ilah". >>>>>>>>>>> 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before > Muhammad began >>>>>>>>>>> promoting his new religion in 610 AD. >>>>>>>>>>> 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah". >>>>>>>>>>> 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to >>> the name >>>>>>>>>>> "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah". >>>>>>>>>>> 9. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of > the Arabs >>>>> at the >>>>>>>>>>> Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms. >>>>>>>>>>> 10. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that >>>>> Islam is >>>>>>>>>>> derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. >>>>>>>>>>> 11. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots >>> are in >>>>>>>>> paganism. >>>>>>>>>>> Hubal the moon god of the Kabah >>>>>>>>>>> Allah the moon god of the Kabah >>>>>>>>>>> Remnants of pagan Moon god worship in the Koran >>>>>>>>>>> Pre-Islamic Origin of the word Allah >>>>>>>>>>> Photogallery of the ancient history of Moon god worship >>>>>>>>>>> Modern usage of moon god symbols in Islam today. >>>>>>>>>> That does not show that they worship a moon god. >>>>>>>>>> You wouldn't persuade anyone that you know what you are talking >>> about. >>> >>>>>>>>> Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque? >>>>>>>> Why not? What does that have to do with the fact that they > worship the >>>>>>>> God of Abraham? >>>>>>>> Christians use a cross. Does that mean that God is dead? >>>>>>> Here is the answer to the question: >>>>>>>>> 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The >>>>>>>>>> crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon >>> worship as far >>>>>>>>>> back as 2000 BC. >>>>>>>>>> 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of > the Kabah. >>>>>>>>>> 3. This Hubal was a moon god. >>>>>>>>>> 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god >>> Hubal was >>>>>>>>>> placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. >>>>> This may >>>>>>>>>> in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of >>> every minaret >>>>>>>>>> at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of > every mosque >>>>>>>>>> throughout the world: >>>>>> No, that is not an answer to my question. Mohammed was a religious >>>>>> reformer and part of his reform was to state that there was only one >>>>>> god, the God of Abraham. You are lying about Islam. >>>>>> I notice that you refused to respond to the fact that Easter was >>>>>> borrowed from pagan worship. >>>>> I stated in a post that I don't know about that issue. >>>> Yet you have the arrogance, the gall to assert with the same ignorance >>>> that Moslems worship a moon god. You really are disgusting. If I were >>>> your pastor, I would be writing a sermon about hubris and >>>> self-righteousness to deliver to you, and, since you refuse to ever >>>> acknowledge any of your sins, I would be calling you directly, in >>>> church, on such lies and how you are harming the Church with your >>>> nonsense. >>>> I've asked you dozens of times where God told you to lie, but we all >>>> know that God didn't tell you to lie. You took it upon yourself to lie >>>> to defend the doctrines that you want people to believe. You kept >>>> telling those lies even after everyone pointed out that they were lies >>>> and that you had no excuse to tell them. You are a pitiful excuse for a >>>> man, a pitiful mockery of a Christian. >>> Google "moon god". I first read about the moon god in a book that was >>> written by a famous Christian preacher named John Hagee. He wrote about >>> the moon god in this book: "Jerusalem Countdown". He has a television show >>> that is broadcast every Sunday. He is a pastor of a church that has about >>> 5000 members. >> Why should anybody take the word of a Christian evangelist about the >> origins of Islam? Obviously he has an agenda. If you want to know >> about Islam, study history - do not listen to preachers. Likewise, if >> you want to know about Christianity, don't listen to Muslim preachers >> - they have an agenda, too. >> >> - Bob T. >> >>> jason- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - > > Yes--most everyone has an agenda. > Jason > > Congratulations, Jason has just shined you on again. Quote
Guest cactus Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182911724.230962.192450@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 1:47 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <5eclv9F38b9m...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >>> <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: >>>> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >>>> news:Jason-2506072238410001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >>>>> In article <1182828376.590242.59...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > Martin >>>>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 26, 9:12 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>> In article <yAZfi.7126$n9.6...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >>>>>>> <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:Jason-2406071818230001@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>> > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >>>>>>>>> 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>>> <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >>>>>>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I want to make it legal for teachers >>>>>>>>>>> to teach ID >>>>>>>>>> But it is legal to do that... >>>>>>>>>> ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >>>>>>>>>> So what's your problem? >>>>>>>>> I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of >>>>>>>>> course, >>>>>>>>> evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >>>>>>>> Tell me Jason, just how would you propose teaching ID as science? >>>>> Please be >>>>>>>> specific in your reply. >>>>>>> Teachers and students would use the textbook "Of Pandas and People" >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> has no Biblical content. >>>>>> It also has no scientific content. And you can't argue that it does >>>>>> because you've never seen it. >>>>> That's true--just a book review. >>>> How can you advocate something you haven't even bothered to read? >>> Since I know the basics of creation... >> So you, Jason, consider yourself qualified to teach a science class? >> That's exactly the kind of travesty we want to avoid. >> >> Martin > > Martin, > No--I don't have a degree in science. A graduate of the ICR college could > teach a science class. Not in my town unless credentialled, and not unless he or she followed the standard curriculum. Which BTW does not include creationism or "intelligent design." Many of their students are high school biology and > chemistry teachers. Frightening. The ICR college only offers one degree--Master's > Degree. I once saw the required classes--most were science classes. Real science? They > offer summer classes so the high school science teachers can keep their > jobs. > Jason > > Quote
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