Guest Michael Gray Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:48:18 -0000, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: - Refer: <1182916098.997776.66660@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com> >On Jun 27, 4:40 am, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:22:01 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606071322010...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >In article <1182888250.489184.198...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> >gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >> > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >> > evolution to be taught.- >> >> >> And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not >> >> determine the science curriculum. >> >> >I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. >> >> Right, that is why both sides have expert witnesses. > >An "expert" promoting ID: that's funny. They are called professional liars, or "Advertising Executives". -- Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 05:48:24 -0000, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: - Refer: <1182923304.937231.243630@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com> >On Jun 27, 8:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish >> >> <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: >> > Jason wrote: >> >> > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the >> > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother was >> > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> > be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child >> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket >> that was buried in the dirt. > >Children can accept the truth. Why can't you? Most children have open minds. -- Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:15:52 -0700, johac <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote: - Refer: <jhachmann-DB11DE.22155226062007@news.giganews.com> >In article <1vj3835t86vajghq9n05jc1n7qdhe7ntud@4ax.com>, > Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:58:27 -0700, johac >> <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> - Refer: <jhachmann-2EB388.15582726062007@news.giganews.com> >> >In article >> ><Jason-2506071038350001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> >> In article <5ea5jrF383thsU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> >> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote >> >> > >> >> > snip >> >> > >> >> > > If they read their Bibles, they will know all about the true God. >> >> > >> >> > What makes your god the "true" one? >> >> >> >> Books have been written on that subject. >> > >> >I read books on Greek mythology. Does that mean that Zeus is the true >> >god? >> >> Of course. >> The non-existent Zeus can kick the non-existent YHWH's butt any time! >> > >With one thunderbolt tied behind his back. So could Odin. Odin is feeling a little thor at the moment... -- Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072325290001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <4681fb79$0$30597$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, "Christopher > Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote: > >> Jason Brown had nothing to do with ID especially since ID was not thought >> up >> yet as a new lie for Creationism. Now more to the point of the case if >> and >> when the ID people come up with an actual scientific theory it can be >> considered as being taught in classrooms, but they do not even claim they >> have that. They have nothing to teach not a thing is was all a scam and >> now >> they are looking for their next scam and next group of marks to pull it >> on. >> Try not and be among the marks this time for these conmen in labcoats >> they >> are trying to sell you snake oil. > > I hope that the people in the ID movement do a better job during the next > court case. It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the > children will realize that ID makes more sense than evolution so they will > spend millions to keep any school systems from teaching ID. If they were > really sure that evolution would win the competition--they would not be > concerned if it was taught in the public schools. > Jason they have nothing to teach not a theroy, not even a decent hypothisis all they have is their snake oil and chumps like you keep buying it. The day that ID people come up with a theroy is the day that science will listen to them, but they got nothing they are empty. The emporer is totally naked dude and you are not getting it. Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072339180001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182923955.184406.146760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 8:19 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > I have made this point several different times but it appears that it >> > flew >> > over your head: >> > Legislation (as per the constitution) should be made by elected >> > representatives and not as a result of by judicial fiat. If you re-read >> > the article with this in mind--you will understand my point of view. >> > The >> > will of the democratic majority is taken into consideration by elected >> > representatives but is usually not taken into consideration by >> > unelected >> > judges. >> >> Get this through your thick head, Jason: you are endorsing the removal >> of people's constitutionally guaranteed protection against the >> promotion of somebody else's religion. >> >> You're a nazi, Jason. >> >> Martin > > Martin, > You appear to have trust in judges. In 1857, the Supreme Court ruled that > slavery was legal. You may want to google Dred Scot Decision. Do you > believe that was an excellent court decision? > Jason > Yes Jasom they did the Tandy Court was made up of mostly Southerners too at the time and Congress passed Amendemnts using their own language against them to overturn their personal nonsense. By the way the case was not about Slavery persay, but about if a Black man was a Citazen of the United States or not, they ruled very badly that he was not nor had any rights a white man need respect. Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1182929960.497089.76860@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 27, 2:10 pm, "Christopher Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> > wrote: >> "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> >> news:1182923304.937231.243630@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > >> > On Jun 27, 8:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John >> >> Popelish >> >> >> <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: >> >> > Jason wrote: >> >> >> > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that >> >> > > the >> >> > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >> >> > > grandmother was >> >> > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> >> > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >> > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >> > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >> > be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >> >> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the >> >> child >> >> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the >> >> casket >> >> that was buried in the dirt. >> >> > Children can accept the truth. Why can't you? >> >> Martin, now you are going beyond the realms of science and into the >> realms >> of philosophy and religion, which is something, science is not good at >> doing. Since we have nothing we can say scientifically on what happens >> after >> death, it is not possible for anyone to say. It is the forts of religion >> and >> philosophy to ponder that which comes after and to give comfort to those >> who >> remain behind. As an atheist you do not believe anything is beyond death, >> but for the most of the world and throughout history of mankind this has >> not >> been the case. Since there is no ways of knowing one ways or another, why >> would you insist that your thoughts are the final word on the subject? We >> have all chastised Jason for trying to make science and religion mix it >> is >> no more right for you to mix religion and science. > > The truth is that grandmother is dead and she isn't coming back. If > children aren't taught to accept the finality of death then they will > have that much harder a time dealing with it as adults. > > Martin Perhaps Martin she is, but in the end what happens after the point of death is a mystery and it is not a thing science is qualified to answer. Tearing someone apart for believeing something outside your belief is as much a matter of ignorance as forcing relgion into science classes. Science and Religion both have their forts they are just not the same ones. Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072318450001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182921562.532086.9040@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 27 Jun., 01:26, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182892095.064389.276...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > On 26 Jun., 20:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <1182873694.135711.325...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > >snip >> > >> > > > > > I did not state that Christian Arabs are not really Christians. >> > Christian >> > > > > > Arabs are really Christians even if they call God by the name >> > > > > > of >> > Allah.- = >> > > > > Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > > > > Good, you admit your entire argument has been invalid. >> > >> > > > Not true--The Christians Arabs will eventually understand (as a > result of >> > > > reading their Bibles) that God is vastly different than the moon >> > > > god-- >> > >> > > Eventually understand? They do not believe in any moon god now. >> > >> > The Quran indicates that the moon god is unknowable. >> >> First of all that is irrelevant, since we are talking about Christian >> Arabs. Secondly it is not true; the Quran forbids worship of the Moon >> god. >> >> >The moon God is so >> > exalted that no man can ever personally know Allah. In his book that is >> > entitled, "Jesus and Muhammad, Mark Gabriel, a former devout Muslim, >> > says: >> > "If you ask a Muslim, Do you how much Allah loves your? he will >> > respond, >> > 'I don't know how much he loves me. Only Allah knows.' >> >> And he is not talking about the Moon god. > > That is correct. He believe Allah and Yahweh are the same God. >> Being as Yahweh started out as a Cannan War God it does make sense after all when Abraham adopted him as his own God he called him Elhim (spelling too tired to look it up) which translates literally as my El, since the God El was his former God. >> > >> > Mark tells the story about a famous bumper sticker that is placed on >> > the >> > cars and shops of former Muslims that are now Christians--the bumper >> > sticker states: >> > "Allah Mahabe" which means "God is Love". Those words are NEVER put >> > together in the Quran. He never understood the meaning of the bumper >> > sticker until after he became a Christian. >> > >> > In other words, Muslims that become Christians eventually understand as >> > a >> > result of reading the Holy Bible that the true God is vastly different >> > than the God mentioned in the Quran. >> >> We were talking about Christian Arabs not Moslems who become >> Christians, and the god in the Quran is not the Moon god. >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >which is a false God. If those Arabs call God "Allah" instead of >> > > > Jehovah or Yahweh--that is not a problem.- >> > >> > > And that would be because the god they believe in is the same as >> > > Allah, Jehovah, God, Gud, etc. Once again, thank you for admitting >> > > your entire argument is invalid, that it is not the name used but >> > > what >> > > is believed about the deity that matters. The fact that the word >> > > Easter is derived from pagan religions also does not mean Christians >> > > believers in fertility goddesses. Of course all of this also points >> > > out to all the copying and adapting that has occurred between >> > > religions.- >> >> You have totally ignored the above. > > Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072331270001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182920697.691354.172560@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > I trust the elected members of school boards more than I trust unelected > evolutionists. They have an agenda which is to prevent a competing theory > from being taught. > No Jason they have the agenda of having science taught in science class and not religion. Would you like someone to come to your Church and start teaching a science class during your services? I suspect it would upset you so stop trying to preach during science class. Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1182930151.272153.155730@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 27, 2:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> I trust the elected members of school boards more than I trust unelected >> evolutionists. They have an agenda which is to prevent a competing theory >> from being taught. > > ID is not a competing theory as there is no evidence supporting it. > It is nothing short of a lie. > > Martin Man he has already bought the snake oil and is lining up to buy some more. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182928749.302055.19420@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 12:21 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182912658.981044.211...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 27, 2:10 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182873615.385634.169...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On 26 Jun., 02:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > Martin > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > > > > > > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > > > > > > outright. Their loss. > > > > > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established curriculum in a > > > > > > state school should quit. > > > > > > > I didn't think you would answer the question. Apparently you are > > > > > afraid of it just like all the others you ignore. > > > > > > I did provide an answer--perhaps you were not satisfied with my > > > > answer--but I did provide an answer. > > > > > I agree. You said that if the established curriculum stated that the > > > Earth were flat then you, as a teacher, would feel honour bound to > > > teach that. This is precisely why you should not presume to "teach", > > > especially to young kids. > > > If I was employed as a teacher, I would follow the established curriculum. > > I would quit my job if the established curriculum required me to teach > > that the earth was flat. > > Then you understand how qualified science teachers would react to any > school board that wanted then to "teach" ID. > > Martin Martin, Yes, can you understand how qualified science teachers that were advocates of creation science would react to any school board that wanted them to teach about the primordial pond? Jason Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1182926144.148395.258680@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com... >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like this >> >one: >> >> >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? > > The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have > the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell > young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them > that Santa Claus is watching them either > > Martin And you know this how? Have you died and not been able to go there? Or perhaps it is like most of the world belives and you just come back for a new life. Who is to say it is not science for science does not speak to matters of the afterlife, and unless you have died and come back, how do you know what happens afterwards. It is things like this that hurt the case of science, for it should speak only to it's own forts and leave the rest to others better qualified. Quote
Guest Christopher Morris Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1182930709.368584.64290@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 27, 2:49 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> In article <1182926144.148395.258...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, >> Martin >> >> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> > > >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like >> > > >this one: >> >> > > >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? >> >> > The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have >> > the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell >> > young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them >> > that Santa Claus is watching them either > >> I have never an attended a funeral for an atheist. Perhaps the person in >> charge of the funeral would say something like: >> >> "He was a wonderful person. In about 100 years, his body will be nothing >> but dust and that will be the end of his existence." > > Why not? It's true. > > Martin in accord with your belief system it is, but not for others who do not hold to your point of view. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182928963.391194.23800@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 12:30 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182914771.873163.36...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim mosque in > > > > the world? > > > > > Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why > > > does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, > > > icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the > > > heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which > > > is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do > > > Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that > > > Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and > > > therefore on Monday? > > > > > Answer the damn questions, Jason. > > > > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research regarding > > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. > > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You > > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the > > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. > > I don't have to. The halos were placed on the heads of saints in > honour of the Roman pagan sun god Helios. Other sun symbolism used by > early Christianity was also in honour of their sun god. > > > I suggest > > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states that > > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. > > But that's completely disregards what Jesus said about rising "after > three days". Was Jesus lying (again)? > > Martin Martin, Perhaps Friday was counted as the first day since he was placed in the tomb prior to sun down. I am just guessing. I am not an expert on church history. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182926921.060522.213800@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 9:06 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <Fzigi.138$ca...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > The Hindu's believe that their story of religious beginnings should be > > > taught, Should we do this? What if they are in the majority, do we teach it > > > then? > > > > Excellent point--I doubt if any school board would do it. If I lived in > > that district, I would write a letter to each member of the school board > > and ask them to vote NO. > > Presumably you believe that only Christians have this right. > > Martin Anyone is free to try to write letters to anyone they want to write letters to. Anyone is free to vote for or not vote for school board members. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182928583.595714.251010@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 12:11 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182915204.792299.46...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 27, 3:10 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in > > > > deciding education policy. That is far better than unelected evolutionists > > > > deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with > > > > how states are deciding education policy. > > > > > You're taking a stand against academic freedom. > > > > > academic freedom > > > -noun 1. freedom of a teacher to discuss or investigate any > > > controversial social, economic, or political problems without > > > interference or penalty from officials, organized groups, etc. > > > 2=2E freedom of a student to explore any field or hold any belief > > > without interference from the teacher. > > > Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, =A9 Random House, Inc. > > > 2006. > > > > > academic freedom > > > n=2E Liberty to teach, pursue, and discuss knowledge without > > > restriction or interference, as by school or public officials. > > > The American Heritage=AE Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth > > > Edition > > > Copyright =A9 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company. > > > Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. > > > > > academic freedom > > > noun > > > the freedom of teachers and students to express their ideas in school > > > without religious or political or institutional restrictions > > > WordNet=AE 3.0, =A9 2006 by Princeton University. > > > > > academic freedom > > > The right of teachers and students to express their ideas in the > > > classroom or in writing, free from political, religious, or > > > institutional restrictions, even if these ideas are unpopular. > > > The American Heritage=AE New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third > > > Edition > > > Copyright =A9 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company. > > > Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. > > > In the county that I lived, the members of the school board were elected > > by the people that lived in that county. The teachers did not have control > > over the schools. The people in that county indirectly controlled the > > schools in that county by their votes. It appears to me that evolutionists > > want to control the schools. I continue to believe the people that live in > > a county or city should have a say (eg votes) in how the schools are run. > > Do you agree or disagree? > > Of course I disagree! Teachers are honour bound to tell students the > truth! They should not be dictated to by school or local public > officials as to what gets taught in class! Their only concern should > be whether or not the course content satisfies the entrance > requirements of local universities and, frankly, the teachers > themselves (assuming they are qualified to teach the subject in > question in teh first place) are better qualified to determine whether > they are! > > I am a strong advocate of educational institutions hiring qualified > teachers and then giving them the academic freedom to teach the > subject they were hired to teach. No state curriculum is going to > automatically meet the needs of local students, especially if the > teachers they hire are not qualified to implement them! > > Martin Martin, I understand your point. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <6Lngi.16070$2v1.14695@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, bm1@nonespam.com wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <1182911724.230962.192450@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 27, 1:47 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>> In article <5eclv9F38b9m...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >>> <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > >>>> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >>>> news:Jason-2506072238410001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >>>>> In article <1182828376.590242.59...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > Martin > >>>>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On Jun 26, 9:12 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>>> In article <yAZfi.7126$n9.6...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >>>>>>> <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>> news:Jason-2406071818230001@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >>>>>>>>> In article > >>>>>>>>> > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, > >>>>>>>>> 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> In article > >>>>>>>>>> <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, > >>>>>>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> I want to make it legal for teachers > >>>>>>>>>>> to teach ID > >>>>>>>>>> But it is legal to do that... > >>>>>>>>>> ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. > >>>>>>>>>> So what's your problem? > >>>>>>>>> I was referring to high school science and biology classes. Of > >>>>>>>>> course, > >>>>>>>>> evolution should also be taught in those same classes. > >>>>>>>> Tell me Jason, just how would you propose teaching ID as science? > >>>>> Please be > >>>>>>>> specific in your reply. > >>>>>>> Teachers and students would use the textbook "Of Pandas and People" > >>>>>>> which > >>>>>>> has no Biblical content. > >>>>>> It also has no scientific content. And you can't argue that it does > >>>>>> because you've never seen it. > >>>>> That's true--just a book review. > >>>> How can you advocate something you haven't even bothered to read? > >>> Since I know the basics of creation... > >> So you, Jason, consider yourself qualified to teach a science class? > >> That's exactly the kind of travesty we want to avoid. > >> > >> Martin > > > > Martin, > > No--I don't have a degree in science. A graduate of the ICR college could > > teach a science class. > > Not in my town unless credentialled, and not unless he or she followed > the standard curriculum. Which BTW does not include creationism or > "intelligent design." > > Many of their students are high school biology and > > chemistry teachers. > > Frightening. > > The ICR college only offers one degree--Master's > > Degree. I once saw the required classes--most were science classes. > > Real science? > > They > > offer summer classes so the high school science teachers can keep their > > jobs. > > Jason > > > > Most teachers follow the rules. The teachers that don't follow the standard curriculum usually get another job--perhaps at a Christian school or get fired. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <dMngi.16072$2v1.8743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, bm1@nonespam.com wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <8di383tk4k8aadt0l1ac85ua22n1mmct4f@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > > <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > > >> In alt.atheism On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:02:36 -0700, Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) let us all know that: > >> > >>> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jason wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the > >>>>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her > > grandmother was > >>>>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. > >>>> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted > >>>> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise > >>>> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to > >>>> be adults with poorly developed minds. > >>> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child > >>> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket > >>> that was buried in the dirt. > >> It's better to have the truth than a comfortable lie, don't > >> you agree? Comfortable lies come back to bite you later in life. > >> > >> > >> Don > >> --- > >> aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde > >> Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. > >> > >> "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" > >> Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" > > > > Christians do not consider it a lie. > > > > > And yet, Jason, you want to usurp my rights and my childrens' rights to > a secular education. Don't worry--as of now--the evolutionists are winning all of the court cases. They don't want any competition. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <4Gngi.16066$2v1.2805@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, bm1@nonespam.com wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <1182920084.264354.52290@k29g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> On 26 Jun., 21:00, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>> In article <1182873774.679677.7...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>>> On 26 Jun., 02:12, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>> In article <1182813471.492210.280...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > >>>>> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>>>>> On 25 Jun., 20:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>>> In article <1182770555.111873.24...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,= > >> Mar=3D > >>>> tin > >>>>>>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Jun 25, 2:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>>>>> In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups= > >> .com=3D > >>>>> , "Bob > >>>>>>>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> In article > >>>>> <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > >>>>>>>>>>> T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > >>>>>>>>>>>> <snip article> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Iran is an excellent example of what happens when relig= > >> ious > >>>>> nutcases > >>>>>>>>>>>> are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly= > >> wis=3D > >>>> h that > >>>>>>>>>>>> America was more like Iran. > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Bob T. > >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were = > >> Chri=3D > >>>> stians. > >>>>>>>>>> Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by supers= > >> titi=3D > >>>> ous > >>>>>>>>>> fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live und= > >> er M=3D > >>>> uslim > >>>>>>>>>> religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envi= > >> sion=3D > >>>> would > >>>>>>>>>> be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition = > >> knoc=3D > >>>> king on > >>>>>>>>>> our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > >>>>>>>>>> I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of = > >> free=3D > >>>> dom, > >>>>>>>>>> including freedom from religion. > >>>>>>>>>> - Bob T. > >>>>>>>>> I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims ar= > >> e to=3D > >>>> take > >>>>>>>>> over the world--one country at a time. > >>>>>>>> Oddly enough I don't see that many Muslim missionaries today. = > >> How > >>>>>>>> many countries have muslims invaded over the past ten years? N= > >> one. > >>>>>>>> How many muslim countries has the US invaded over the past ten = > >> year=3D > >>>> s? > >>>>>>>> Two. > >>>>>>>> If at all possible, try to make statements actually supported by > >>>>>>>> facts, Jason. > >>>>>>>> Martin > >>>>>>> Good point--our troops will eventually leave Iraq and Afghanistan= > >> . If=3D > >>>> the > >>>>>>> leaders of either of those countries asked Bush to remove our tro= > >> ops =3D > >>>> from > >>>>>>> their countries--Bush would do it. > >>>>>>> The Muslims from the middle east are in the process of taking ove= > >> r the > >>>>>>> Sudan. > >>>>>> In the real world Moslems have controlled the Sudan for centuries. > >>>>>> At present, they are committing genocide against the people in > >>>>>>> Darfur. > >>>>>> People supposedly supported by the government of the Sudan are doing > >>>>>> that not Moslems as a group, and Darfur is part of the Sudan. > >>>>>>> Various experts are concerned that once they have total control > >>>>>>> over the Sudan--they will use the Sudan as a staging area to take= > >> ove=3D > >>>> r the > >>>>>>> surrounding African countries. > >>>>>> Name one of these experts. The Sudan is barely able to take over t= > >> he > >>>>>> Sudan. Many of the surrounding countries have been Moslem for a > >>>>>> thousand years. Your experts seem to have missed a lot. > >>>>>>> You may want to google "genocide in Darfur" > >>>>>>> if you don't believe me. > >>>>>> Nobody believes you. I doubt that you believe you. > >>>>> The muslims from the middle east want to have total contrl of the Sud= > >> an. > >>>>> Upon request, I'll post an article about it.- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8r= > >> selste=3D > >>>> gn - > >>>>> - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > >>>> The Moslems of the Middle East are not involved in the Sudan. You are > >>>> making =3DEDt up as you go along. > >>> Are there any Arab Muslims in Darfur?- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >>> > >>> - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >> The relevant question is why do you argue for a position that has > >> already been demonstrated to be wrong? The article you yourself > >> posted contradicts your description of the situation in Darfur. In > >> any event I would be very surprised if there were no Arabs in Darfur, > >> or Frenchmen or Americans etc., but you are still completely wrong; > >> and you have provided documentation that shows you are wrong. > > > > Yes, I found out from my web search that the Christians live in the > > southern part of the Sudan. I was under the impression there were some > > Christians living in Darfur but found out I was wrong. There are Arabs in > > Darfur that are funded by Arabs from the Middle East. The Arabs in the > > Middle East probably have a long range plan that involves taking over all > > oil wells in the Sudan. I only posted one of the reports that I read. > > Probably? Jason, where is your Christian charity? If you have > evidence, produce it. If you don't, this sort of baseless speculation > is rumormongering and talebearing. One might be Christian, but the > other probably isn't. Please note that I used the term "probably" in my post. If you google "Arabs in Darfur"--you will probably read the same sort of info. that I wrote in my post. The mullahs preach about the end goal of the Muslims. The end goal is to take over the world--one country at a time. They learned a very important lesson from Hitler. Hitler tried to take over the world in about 10 years. The Muslims don't make 10 year plans. They make 100 year plans. The end goal of the 100 year plan is to take over the world. Getting the control of all the oil wells in Africa is part of that plan. Feel free to trust the Muslims if you want to--just keep in mind 9/11. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182926784.945925.211330@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 9:00 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > <Jason-2606071316460...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >In article <1182887737.836228.164...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > > >gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > >> > snip > > > > > >> > Martin, > > > >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the tradition that > > > >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find > > out the > > > >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > > >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > > > >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. > > > > > >This is from Wikipedia: > > > > > >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is > > > >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, > > > >observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early > > > >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the > > > >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe > > > >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the > > > >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, > > > >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season > > > >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now > > > >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the > > > >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. > > > > > >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a > > > >non-religious holiday. > > > > > But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility festival. > > > > Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to > > convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? > > He never existed, Jason. It's your Bible that says he existed. And > it also says he rose on Monday, THREE DAYS after the day before the > Jewish Sabbath. > > Martin Martin, If you believe Jesus never existed, why are you even concerned about whether it was three days? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182927532.893482.19910@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 9:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <erf383hnaoudjn7p9mi00r176v0s3jt...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:00:54 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > <Jason-2606071800540...@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > >> <Jason-2606071316460...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > >> >In article <1182887737.836228.164...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > > >> >gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >> >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> >> > In article > > > > <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > >> >> > snip > > > > > >> >> > Martin, > > > >> >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the > > tradition that > > > >> >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find > > > >out the > > > >> >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > > >> >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > >> >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > > > >> >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. > > > > > >> >This is from Wikipedia: > > > > > >> >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is > > > >> >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, > > > >> >observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early > > > >> >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the > > > >> >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe > > > >> >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the > > > >> >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, > > > >> >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season > > > >> >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now > > > >> >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the > > > >> >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. > > > > > >> >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a > > > >> >non-religious holiday. > > > > > >> But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility festival. > > > > > >Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to > > > >convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? > > > > > That was completely off the way. > > > > > Yes, the Bible itself says that Jesus did not stay dead for three days. > > > So, tell me, what did Jesus predict? > > > > He stated lots of things--he did say that he would rise from the dead. > > Provide a verse--if you are referring to a certain thing that he stated. > > Either you are completely dishonest or you have no memory of what > you've read. > > > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > First look at Mark: > > > > Mark 8:31: "And He [Jesus] began to teach them that the Son of Man > > > must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief > > > priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." > > > > Mark 9:31: "For He taught His disciples and said to them, `The Son of > > > Man is being delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him. > > > And after He is killed, He will rise the third day.' " > > > > So if Jesus was buried on "Good" Friday then there is no way he could > > > have risen on Sunday. And it was supposedly Friday, the day before > > > the Sabbath according to John and Luke: > > > > John 19:31. "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the > > > bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath [for that Sabbath > > > was a high day). > > > > Luke 23:56. The women ".. prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they > > > rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment " > > > > Some have argued that a "day" meant 12 hours but Matthew makes it > > > clear that "three days" includes "three nights": > > > > Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights in the heart of the > > > earth." > > Martin You stated in your last post that you did not believe in Jesus--so why is this issue important to you? The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the times of days since they were witnesses. They must have been fairly sure that it was three days--otherwise they would have worshipped on Monday instead of on Sunday. Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 4:28 pm, "Christopher Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1182929960.497089.76860@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2:10 pm, "Christopher Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> > > wrote: > >> "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > >>news:1182923304.937231.243630@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > >> > On Jun 27, 8:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John > >> >> Popelish > > >> >> <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > >> >> > Jason wrote: > > >> >> > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that > >> >> > > the > >> >> > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her > >> >> > > grandmother was > >> >> > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. > > >> >> > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted > >> >> > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise > >> >> > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to > >> >> > be adults with poorly developed minds. > > >> >> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the > >> >> child > >> >> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the > >> >> casket > >> >> that was buried in the dirt. > > >> > Children can accept the truth. Why can't you? > > >> Martin, now you are going beyond the realms of science and into the > >> realms > >> of philosophy and religion, which is something, science is not good at > >> doing. Since we have nothing we can say scientifically on what happens > >> after > >> death, it is not possible for anyone to say. It is the forts of religion > >> and > >> philosophy to ponder that which comes after and to give comfort to those > >> who > >> remain behind. As an atheist you do not believe anything is beyond death, > >> but for the most of the world and throughout history of mankind this has > >> not > >> been the case. Since there is no ways of knowing one ways or another, why > >> would you insist that your thoughts are the final word on the subject? We > >> have all chastised Jason for trying to make science and religion mix it > >> is > >> no more right for you to mix religion and science. > > > The truth is that grandmother is dead and she isn't coming back. If > > children aren't taught to accept the finality of death then they will > > have that much harder a time dealing with it as adults. > > Perhaps Martin she is, but in the end what happens after the point of death > is a mystery and it is not a thing science is qualified to answer. On the contrary, you don't need religion to tell you when someone (or something) is dead. It is a purely medical question. > Tearing > someone apart for believeing something outside your belief is as much a > matter of ignorance as forcing relgion into science classes. Science and > Religion both have their forts they are just not the same ones. I'm not stating any non-objective beliefs. Jason, I'm sure, agrees that the body of the grandmother in question is dead. He will tell children that grandmother is in Heaven, however, simply because he thinks it is easier for them to hear that than the truth. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 4:36 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182928749.302055.19...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 27, 12:21 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1182912658.981044.211...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 27, 2:10 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > In article <1182873615.385634.169...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > On 26 Jun., 02:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > In article <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > > Martin > > > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth was > > > > > > > > flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd quit > > > > > > > > outright. Their loss. > > > > > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established > curriculum in a > > > > > > > state school should quit. > > > > > > > I didn't think you would answer the question. Apparently you are > > > > > > afraid of it just like all the others you ignore. > > > > > > I did provide an answer--perhaps you were not satisfied with my > > > > > answer--but I did provide an answer. > > > > > I agree. You said that if the established curriculum stated that the > > > > Earth were flat then you, as a teacher, would feel honour bound to > > > > teach that. This is precisely why you should not presume to "teach", > > > > especially to young kids. > > > > If I was employed as a teacher, I would follow the established curriculum. > > > I would quit my job if the established curriculum required me to teach > > > that the earth was flat. > > > Then you understand how qualified science teachers would react to any > > school board that wanted then to "teach" ID. > Yes, can you understand how qualified science teachers that were advocates > of creation There are no qualified science teachers who advocate creationism, Jason. Creationism is not science and any "teacher" who would endorse the "teaching" of ID would be unqualified as he or she obviously doesn't know enough about the subject he or she was supposed to be teaching! Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 4:38 pm, "Christopher Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1182926144.148395.258680@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com... > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like this > >> >one: > > >> >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? > > > The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have > > the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell > > young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them > > that Santa Claus is watching them either > And you know this how? Have you died and not been able to go there? No. Nobody has. It's all a myth. > Or > perhaps it is like most of the world belives and you just come back for a > new life. Who is to say it is not science for science does not speak to > matters of the afterlife, and unless you have died and come back, how do you > know what happens afterwards. It is things like this that hurt the case of > science, for it should speak only to it's own forts and leave the rest to > others better qualified. What hurts the cause of science is scientists giving credence to the supernatural. There are certainly things which are paranormal, things which cannot be yet be explained by science but it is non-scientific to assume the existance of anything that cannot ever be explained by science. It would be like a high school science professor saying "God made things that way" when a student asked him a question he couldn't answer. Any question a high school student can answer is a question that has been considered before and it is a lie to say that "God did it" is the only answer. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 4:39 pm, "Christopher Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1182930709.368584.64290@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > > On Jun 27, 2:49 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> In article <1182926144.148395.258...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, > >> Martin > > >> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> > > <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > >> > > >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like > >> > > >this one: > > >> > > >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? > > >> > The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have > >> > the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell > >> > young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them > >> > that Santa Claus is watching them either > > >> I have never an attended a funeral for an atheist. Perhaps the person in > >> charge of the funeral would say something like: > > >> "He was a wonderful person. In about 100 years, his body will be nothing > >> but dust and that will be the end of his existence." > > > Why not? It's true. > in accord with your belief system it is, but not for others who do not hold > to your point of view. Truth is not a matter of opinion. Reality does not conform to anybody's beliefs, not mine, not yours and not Jason's. Besides, grandmother is dead. That's something we all agree on. No supernatural belief is going to change the fact that her body will be dust in 100 years. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 4:42 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182928963.391194.23...@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 27, 12:30 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1182914771.873163.36...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim > mosque in > > > > > the world? > > > > > Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why > > > > does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, > > > > icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the > > > > heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which > > > > is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do > > > > Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that > > > > Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and > > > > therefore on Monday? > > > > > Answer the damn questions, Jason. > > > > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research regarding > > > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. > > > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You > > > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the > > > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. > > > I don't have to. The halos were placed on the heads of saints in > > honour of the Roman pagan sun god Helios. Other sun symbolism used by > > early Christianity was also in honour of their sun god. > > > > I suggest > > > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states that > > > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. > > > But that's completely disregards what Jesus said about rising "after > > three days". Was Jesus lying (again)? > Perhaps Friday was counted as the first day since he was placed in the > tomb prior to sun down. I am just guessing. I am not an expert on church > history. I see. So Jesus wasn't lying: he was just bad at math. Is that what you are saying? That he couldn't count to three? Martin Quote
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