Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 4:44 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182926921.060522.213...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 27, 9:06 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <Fzigi.138$ca...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > The Hindu's believe that their story of religious beginnings should be > > > > taught, Should we do this? What if they are in the majority, do we > teach it > > > > then? > > > > Excellent point--I doubt if any school board would do it. If I lived in > > > that district, I would write a letter to each member of the school board > > > and ask them to vote NO. > > > Presumably you believe that only Christians have this right. > Anyone is free to try to write letters to anyone they want to write > letters to. Anyone is free to vote for or not vote for school board > members. But, in this hypothetical situation, you would hope that your opinion got heard regardless of the opinions of the majority. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 4:54 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > Don't worry--as of now--the evolutionists are winning all of the court > cases. They don't want any competition. It's not that "evolutionists" don't want any competition: the fact is that there is NO theory competing with natural selection to explain the diversity of life on Earth. ID is not a theory: it's not even a working hypothesis, because it assumes an "intelligent designer" for which there is no independent evidence nor any explanation (other than natural selection itself) as to how this "intelligent designer" was able to accomplish the diversity of life we see today. The "intelligent designer" only works as an unnecessary adjunct to existing evolutionary theory. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 5:09 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182926784.945925.211...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 27, 9:00 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > <Jason-2606071316460...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >In article <1182887737.836228.164...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > >gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > >> > In article > > <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > > > > > > >> > snip > > > > > >> > Martin, > > > > >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the > tradition that > > > > >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find > > > out the > > > > >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > > > >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > > > > >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. > > > > > >This is from Wikipedia: > > > > > >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection Day, is > > > > >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, > > > > >observed at some point between late March and late April each year (early > > > > >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the > > > > >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians believe > > > > >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the > > > > >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the church year, > > > > >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season > > > > >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now > > > > >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week > of the > > > > >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. > > > > > >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a > > > > >non-religious holiday. > > > > > But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility festival. > > > > Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to > > > convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? > > > He never existed, Jason. It's your Bible that says he existed. And > > it also says he rose on Monday, THREE DAYS after the day before the > > Jewish Sabbath. > If you believe Jesus never existed, why are you even concerned about > whether it was three days? I just want you to admit, Jason, that there is no reason for Christians to move the Sabbath to Sunday other than the fact that pagan sun worshippers in Rome were already celebrating it as the day of their sun god. Martin Quote
Guest George Chen Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 5:17 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182927532.893482.19...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 27, 9:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <erf383hnaoudjn7p9mi00r176v0s3jt...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:00:54 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > <Jason-2606071800540...@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > > > > >> <Jason-2606071316460...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >> >In article <1182887737.836228.164...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > >> >gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >> >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > >> >> > In article > > > > <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > >> >> > snip > > > > > >> >> > Martin, > > > > >> >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the > > > tradition that > > > > >> >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to find > > > > >out the > > > > >> >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. > > > > >> >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > >> >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, since the > > > > >> >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. > > > > > >> >This is from Wikipedia: > > > > > >> >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection > Day, is > > > > >> >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical year, > > > > >> >observed at some point between late March and late April each > year (early > > > > >> >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle > of the > > > > >> >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians > believe > > > > >> >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time in the > > > > >> >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the > church year, > > > > >> >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter > Season > > > > >> >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now > > > > >> >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first > week of the > > > > >> >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. > > > > > >> >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, as a > > > > >> >non-religious holiday. > > > > > >> But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility festival. > > > > > >Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to > > > > >convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? > > > > > That was completely off the way. > > > > > Yes, the Bible itself says that Jesus did not stay dead for three days. > > > > So, tell me, what did Jesus predict? > > > > He stated lots of things--he did say that he would rise from the dead. > > > Provide a verse--if you are referring to a certain thing that he stated. > > > Either you are completely dishonest or you have no memory of what > > you've read. > > > > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > First look at Mark: > > > > > Mark 8:31: "And He [Jesus] began to teach them that the Son of Man > > > > must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief > > > > priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." > > > > > Mark 9:31: "For He taught His disciples and said to them, `The Son of > > > > Man is being delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him. > > > > And after He is killed, He will rise the third day.' " > > > > > So if Jesus was buried on "Good" Friday then there is no way he could > > > > have risen on Sunday. And it was supposedly Friday, the day before > > > > the Sabbath according to John and Luke: > > > > > John 19:31. "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the > > > > bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath [for that Sabbath > > > > was a high day). > > > > > Luke 23:56. The women ".. prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they > > > > rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment " > > > > > Some have argued that a "day" meant 12 hours but Matthew makes it > > > > clear that "three days" includes "three nights": > > > > > Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights in the heart of the > > > > earth." > > > Martin > > You stated in your last post that you did not believe in Jesus--so why is > this issue important to you? > > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the times of days > since they were witnesses. The disciples never existed, Jason. > They must have been fairly sure that it was > three days--otherwise they would have worshipped on Monday instead of on > Sunday. And that is proof right there that the disciples never existed: if they had been there then they would have remembered that he had said not only "three days" but "three days and three nights". Apparently the early Christians who made up the story of Jesus weren't very bright because they may very well have, as you say, counted Friday as the first day even though the story goes that Christ wasn't entombed until the late afternoon. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 01:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182891430.834265.109...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On 26 Jun., 20:40, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1182874101.911955.323...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > On 26 Jun., 02:25, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > In article <1182814064.453751.298...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > On 25 Jun., 21:39, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > In article <1182799149.323449.320...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com= > > >, "Bob > > > > snip > > > > > > > > My point is that various people rejected the evidence based upon > > > what they > > > > > > > already believe.- Skjul tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=3DF8rselstegn - > > > > > > > Since there was no evidence to reject, you have no point. There was > > > > > > hearsay testimony. How could the doctor or the person cured possib= > > ly > > > > > > know it was a miracle. This has been asked in various ways repeate= > > d, > > > > > > and you are still ignoring it. > > > > > > I understand your question. The doctor knew that William Kent had bee= > > n in > > > > > a wheel chair for several years. The doctor had X-Rays and medical re= > > cords > > > > > related to the reason William Kent was disabled. That same doctor hea= > > rd > > > > > Willam Kent's testimony related to his healing. That doctor examined > > > > > William Kent and determined that he was no longer disabled and could = > > walk > > > > > normally. The doctor believed the testimony of William Kent related t= > > o the > > > > > healing. Can William Kent or the doctor provide PROOF that God healed > > > > > William Kent that would satisfy athiests? The answer is NO. Can Willam > > > > > Kent and his doctor provide testimonies and statements that will conv= > > ince > > > > > other Christians and myself that William Kent was healed? The answer = > > is > > > > > Yes. Atheists do not believe the testimony of William Kent because of > > > > > their belief system. > > > > > You have been told why we do not believe the testimony, which means > > > > the above is a lie. > > > > > >Many Christians will believe the testimony of William > > > > > Kent because of our belief system. I doubt that anyone will understan= > > d my > > > > > point.- > > > > > Your point is that you have no evidence and you lie about it, making > > > > it worse by accusing atheists of being as dishonest as you. > > > > Your belief system causes you to reject or not believe the testimonies of > > > those people. > > > And you repeat your lie about my motivations. > > > >My belief system causes me to accept and believe the > > > testimonies.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > Since I have no belief system, I require evidence. Continue with your > > delibrately insulting lies if they amuse you; they change nothing. > > You are the first adult person that has ever told me that they have no > belief system.- That's nice. Are you going to stop lying about my motivations? Just because you believe things without evidence and reject evidence because it goes against what you want to believe does not mean that others are irrational too. I have told you what my motivation for not believing, and, unless you are able to read minds, you have no reason not to accept that reason; which is that there is no objective evidence for the claim. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 01:36, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. > > > Right, that is why both sides have expert witnesses. > > > >I believe that > > >elected representatives should determine education policy--not unelected > > >evolutionists. > > > You misspelled judge yet again. > > > >Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be > > >taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID makes > > >more sense than evolution. > > > Your opinion does not outweigh facts. I don't want ID taught because > > it is either very bad science or religious teachings and I don't want > > either of those in the public schools. I don't think that any school > > should teach bad science, but private schools do have some freedom. > > > You really should read the Dover decision. You may well be concerned > > about learning something about the topic, but publicizing ignorance is > > even worse. > > Matt, > I am not an excellent writer. This person makes my points much better than > I could make them: > > I found this article by conducting a google search for "Judicial Fiat" > > July, 2003 > "Judicial Fiat" > > Every clear-headed Christian/American should be righteously angry over > those federal court rulings that create law rather than interpret law. > > The most recent ruling by a federal judge to remove the Ten Commandments > from school grounds at West Union, Peebles, North Adams, and Manchester > High Schools in Ohio is a clear example of "legislation by mandate" (or > fiat) by a single judge against the will of the democratic majority. It is a clear example of a judge doing his job. > > I'm as capable as any judge to read and understand the Constitution of the > United States and nowhere in that document are there any such words as > "separation of church and state." Nowhere! He should be happy then to hear that no judge has made such a claim. > > The truth is, the Constitution under Article I section 1 says: "All > legislative powers here-in granted shall be vested in a Congress of the > United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of > Representatives." Clearly those judges who mandate or make new law are in > violation of Article I and should be impeached, tried and convicted of > high crimes. > > Also, the first Amendment (Bill of Rights) says, "Congress shall make no > law respecting on establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free > exercise thereof Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 01:55, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >People like yourself seem to have no regard for the wishes of the people > > >that live in Ohio and various other states. Over 60 percent of the > > >citizens of Ohio wanted Evolution and ID to be taught. > > Do they have any idea what to teach about ID? Do you? Don't give me a > > hand wave about the Discovery Institute, tell me what there is to > > teach about ID. > > > Oh, wait, that's right, you agree with the judge that ID is > > creationism and you want the government to promote your religion. > > I would prefer that laws be made by legislators that are elected by people > than be made as a result of "legislation my mandate (judicial fiat). > > In the Dover case, that state law was made by judicial fiat instead of by > the legislators that were elected by the citizens of Ohio. > > Yes, the proper term was probably something like "judicial ruling" or > "court decision". However, in my opinion it was a law made by judicial > fiat. No, it was an interpretation of the law, which is what judges are supposed to do. Your solution would be the end of religious freedom in the US and a violation of the Constitution. It would be the official recognition of a religious belief. Apparently you have no problem with that. This may be difficult for you to grasp, but individuals cannot have their rights protected by law if such issues are decided by majority vote. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 02:02, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the > > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother was > > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. > > > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted > > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise > > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to > > be adults with poorly developed minds. > > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket > that was buried in the dirt. Nobody but you has suggested that the child need be told that. In any case it would not be true. The person no longer exists, so she is not to be found anywhere buried or otherwise. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 01:42, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182890874.445300.325...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On 26 Jun., 20:10, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1182873615.385634.169...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, snip > > The question was whether or not teachers should go along with teaching > > that the Earth is flat if the majority wanted that taught. You did > > not address that question at all. It is amazing how you lie about > > what everybody can see. > > One reason I did not respond is because that would never happen. Is the > correct term for this: non sequitur?- No, the question was quite valid. You want to allow the majority determine what will be taught regardless of their knowledge or experience. Are you willing to apply this to anything at all? Should we teach astrology in an astronomy class, since so many people believe in astronomy? Should the curriculum of medical schools be subject to popular vote? Why, in short, should we limit majority rule to just the teaching of creation science or ID? The question is very valid, yet you avoid it. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 02:48, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:53:44 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote in > <1182873224.668805.269...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > >On 26 Jun., 01:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> In article <1182812406.148531.4...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> > On 25 Jun., 08:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > >> > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >> > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > > > > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "= > >> > Bob > > >> > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > >> > > > > > <snip article> > > >> > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nutcases > >> > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that > >> > > > > > America was more like Iran. > > >> > > > > > - Bob T. > > >> > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. > > >> > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious > >> > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim > >> > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would > >> > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking on > >> > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > > >> > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, > >> > > > including freedom from religion. > > >> > > > - Bob T. > > >> > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take > >> > > over the world--one country at a time. > > >> > It is also the goal of Christians. You said so. > > >> There is a BIG difference. If people refuse to become Muslims, the Muslims > >> chop off thier heads. If people refuse to become Christians, we don't harm > >> them in any way. Has any Christian ever harmed you or threatened you? > > >> > They are presently committing > >> > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. > > >> > All the Moslems are doing that? Even the ones that are at war with > >> > each other? Stop being such a fool. > > >> > After they take over control > >> > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over > >> > > surrounding countries. > > >> > The Sudan is a Muslem country and has been for many centuries. > > >> The Muslims from Middle east are taking over the Sudan. They are either > >> killing the Black Muslims or forcing them to leave the country. > > >The ones doing the killing are nomadic tribesmen in the Sudan. The > >Blacks are animists and Christians. You are once again exposed as an > >ignorant liar. > > You are confusing two different wars. The war in the south was the > Moslems of the north against the animists and Christians of the south. > The war in Darfur is more tribal, but generally everyone involved is > Moslem. This from "On Line Report" "Rebel Groups in Darfur Although unified in their desire for an independent Darfur, the rebel groups fighting the Sudanese government have been plagued by deep internal divisions and power struggles. The region's many rebel groups agreed on Jan. 20, 2006 to join forces under the Alliance of Revolutionary Forces of Western Sudan, however, several months later, the rebels still were negotiating with the African Union and the Sudanese government through different leaders and factions. There are two main rebel groups within the alliance. The larger one, the Sudanese Liberation Army/Movement, represents non-Muslim tribal Africans and is led by Minni Arcua Minnawi and Abdel Wahed Mohamed el- Nur." As you see the largest group is non Moslem. > > This is a tribal war. There is some sense in which it is racist, but the > supposedly Arab north and the Janjaweed are not notably lighter black > than the blacks in Darfur who are being killed. > > ...- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > Why is the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim Mosque in the > world? Hint: the answer is in the first post which is above. No, it isn't. "The Star and Crescent signifies concentration, openness and victory, as well as sovereignty and divinity. According to tradition, in 339 BC a brilliant waxing moon save Byzantium (now Istanbul) from attack by Philip of Macedon. To mark their gratitude, the citizens adopted the Crescent of Diana as the city's emblem. When the city became the Christian Constantinople in 330 AD, its Crescent assumed the significance of an attribute of the Virgin Mary. In 1299, conquering what is now Turkey, Sultan Osman had a vision of a crescent moon stretching over the world; it thus became a symbol of the Ottoman dynasty, and when Constantinople fell to Muhammad II in 1453, the crescent came to represent both Islam and the Turkish empire. The star was added by Sultan Selim III in 1793 (its five points being established in 1844)." This information found in "Signs & Symbols, page 42, by Clare Gibson and is available from Barnes & Noble Books. The ISBN number is 0-7607-0217-9 Giuseppe Bottasini, 28 September 1998 Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim mosque in > the world? (Hint: the answer is in one of the above posts). No, it isn't. "The Star and Crescent signifies concentration, openness and victory, as well as sovereignty and divinity. According to tradition, in 339 BC a brilliant waxing moon save Byzantium (now Istanbul) from attack by Philip of Macedon. To mark their gratitude, the citizens adopted the Crescent of Diana as the city's emblem. When the city became the Christian Constantinople in 330 AD, its Crescent assumed the significance of an attribute of the Virgin Mary. In 1299, conquering what is now Turkey, Sultan Osman had a vision of a crescent moon stretching over the world; it thus became a symbol of the Ottoman dynasty, and when Constantinople fell to Muhammad II in 1453, the crescent came to represent both Islam and the Turkish empire. The star was added by Sultan Selim III in 1793 (its five points being established in 1844)." This information found in "Signs & Symbols, page 42, by Clare Gibson and is available from Barnes & Noble Books. The ISBN number is 0-7607-0217-9 Giuseppe Bottasini, 28 September 1998 Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:32:43 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606072132430001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <5ak383h71evkj2dr1l235m8fbdkbdsksad@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:02:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606071902110001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> >I already know the basics of creation science and ID. >> >> How do they differ? > >The only major difference is related to the age of the earth. There may be >other differences mentioned at the Discovery Institute website. > Well, if that is the only difference, then ID is clearly inappropriate for the public schools. Courts have ruled, over and over, that creationism is religious in nature and so not allowed in a public school curriculum. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182914771.873163.36550@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >>> Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim mosque in >>> the world? >> Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why >> does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, >> icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the >> heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which >> is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do >> Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that >> Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and >> therefore on Monday? >> >> Answer the damn questions, Jason. >> >> Martin > > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research regarding > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. I suggest > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states that > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. And yet your bible clearly says he would rise after THREE days. Where's the 3rd day, Jason? Do you now believe wikipedia over your own bible? Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:36:14 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606072136150001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <1182912481.204273.80920@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 2:08 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443...@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com >> > > (Jason) in >> > > <Jason-2506071804250...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> > >> > > [snip] >> > >> > > >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> > > >school curriculum. >> > >> > > And they do, in every state even. >> > >> > > >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> > > >evolution to be taught. >> > >> > > I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you >> > > have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to >> > > teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to >> > > teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, >> > > have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even >> > > though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to >> > > "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content >> > > to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that >> > > (non-existent) content. >> > >> > > So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent >> > > Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" >> > > means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence >> > > and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers >> > > acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the >> > > designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, >> > > answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue >> > > on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. >> > > I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. >> > >> > The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which >> > has no Biblical content. >> >> And no science content. >> >> If I were a high school principal, I would not hire anyone who thought >> an "intelligent designer" created mankind and I would fire anybody who >> would bring such nonsense into a science classroom. I'd replace that >> person with a qualified teacher immediately. Nobody should call >> themselves a "teacher" and lie to young kids. It's disgraceful! >> >> Martin > >I don't know whether or not such a teacher could file a religious >discrimination lawsuit. Teachers may not be allowed to teach ID but they >are allowed to be Christians. > Yes, they are. And overwhelmingly American teachers are Christians. (Unless, of course, by "Christian" you mean your particular version of the religion.) But teaching ID is about their actions, not their beliefs. And plenty of Christians reject ID and reject creationism. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to > convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? Have you noticed that you're still an idiot and a liar? Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >> > >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >> > >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next >time. How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to promote Christianity? -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182927532.893482.19910@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 9:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <erf383hnaoudjn7p9mi00r176v0s3jt...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>> >>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights in the heart of the >>>> earth." >> Martin > > You stated in your last post that you did not believe in Jesus--so why is > this issue important to you? > > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the times of days > since they were witnesses. They must have been fairly sure that it was > three days--otherwise they would have worshipped on Monday instead of on > Sunday. "three days and three nights," Jason, "three days and three nights." There's no way that Friday evening to Sunday morning is "three days and three nights." So who lied? Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <f5rnk0$40j$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Bob T. wrote: >>> On Jun 25, 11:04 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>> Good point--our troops will eventually leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If the >>>> leaders of either of those countries asked Bush to remove our troops from >>>> their countries--Bush would do it. >>> <snicker> No, he wouldn't. >> He didn't listen when they asked him not to invade (at least in Iraq's >> case, he didn't. I'm not saying if the invasion was right or wrong; >> simply pointing out that it was against the wishes of the then-current >> leader(s) of the country.) so why would he listen when they ask him to >> leave? > > In Iraq--the current leaders are different than the former leaders. If the > current leaders asked Bush to remove the troops--I believe Bush would > remove the troops. I seem to recall that the citzens voted on this issue > about a year ago and they voted to keep our troops in their country. They > had to have their finger prints tested and they proudly held up their > inked fingers to the cameras to show they had freely voted. Damned, Jason, you're going to have a heart attack from back-pedalling so fast. Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:25:29 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606072325290001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: [snip] >I hope that the people in the ID movement do a better job during the next >court case. It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the >children will realize that ID makes more sense than evolution so they will >spend millions to keep any school systems from teaching ID. You keep saying this, but I doubt you believe it. You can't tell us anything about ID, you can't tell us about the evidence in support of it, all you do is point to the Discovery Institute or some evangelical ministry. If it made more sense then you would make your case by talking about ID. >If they were >really sure that evolution would win the competition--they would not be >concerned if it was taught in the public schools. Sorry, but the public schools are not a place for competition like that. There is no other subject where people want to teach children multiple ideas and let the child choose. We don't teach multiple version of history, we don't teach multiple versions of math, and we should not teach multiple versions of biology. That is, if you actually had something to teach. But all you have is creationism, a religious subject, and some vague claim that some designers did somethings somewhere. (I have no idea how that makes sense to you.) -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:39:18 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2606072339180001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >In article <1182923955.184406.146760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 8:19 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > I have made this point several different times but it appears that it flew >> > over your head: >> > Legislation (as per the constitution) should be made by elected >> > representatives and not as a result of by judicial fiat. If you re-read >> > the article with this in mind--you will understand my point of view. The >> > will of the democratic majority is taken into consideration by elected >> > representatives but is usually not taken into consideration by unelected >> > judges. >> >> Get this through your thick head, Jason: you are endorsing the removal >> of people's constitutionally guaranteed protection against the >> promotion of somebody else's religion. >> >> You're a nazi, Jason. >> >> Martin > >Martin, >You appear to have trust in judges. In 1857, the Supreme Court ruled that >slavery was legal. You may want to google Dred Scot Decision. Do you >believe that was an excellent court decision? No, it was a bad decision poorly reasoned. I would not, however, decide to reject all court decisions. You, OTOH, have give the same arguments that those who opposed Brown have given. You have argued that the courts are not allowed to overrule anything that people support. You have argued, in effect, that segregation was just fine because it was supported by the majority. So don't bring up Dred Scot when you have much more recent dirt on your hands. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <1182888536.294395.68200@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 03:27, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <mip083tkkqhcp757tku7i60mga5nmhp...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:49:48 -0700, in alt.atheism >>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>> <Jason-2506071749490...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>> In article <r0n083d7l69bkbc3m7p60j3l60hlme9...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:46:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>>>> <Jason-2506071046360...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>>>> In article <stqv7396nu5e3jsncsntpea7hi1dvcr...@4ax.com>, John Baker >>>>>>> <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:28:42 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 25 Jun., 03:35, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>> For those people that believe Yahweh and Allah are the same >>> God--please >>>>>>>>>> explain why there is a symbol of a crescent moon on top of >>> every Mormon >>>>>>>>>> Mosque in the world? >>>>>>>> Sure, Jason. Just as soon as you tell me where I might find a >>>>>>>> Mormon mosque. <G> >>>>>>> Sorry--I meant Muslim Mosque. >>>>>> Which Mosque would you be willing to go into and tell the worshippers >>>>>> that they do not worship the God of Abraham? What evidence can you >>>>>> provide them that you are right and that Mohammed lied to them? >>>>> Hubal and Allah the Moon God? >>>>> Islam: Truth or Myth? start page >>>>> Introduction to basic facts of history: >>>>> 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The >>>>> crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as = >> far >>>>> back as 2000 BC. >>>>> 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. >>>>> 3. This Hubal was a moon god. >>>>> 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal w= >> as >>>>> placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This= >> may >>>>> in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every mina= >> ret >>>>> at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque >>>>> throughout the world: >>>>> About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr >>>>> bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol >>>>> called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deitie= >> s of >>>>> the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sar= >> war >>>>> (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim) >>>>> 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a pr= >> oper >>>>> name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the go= >> d". >>>>> Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan >>>>> god as "al-ilah". >>>>> 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began >>>>> promoting his new religion in 610 AD. >>>>> 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah". >>>>> 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name >>>>> "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah". >>>>> 9. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at t= >> he >>>>> Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms. >>>>> 10. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam= >> is >>>>> derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. >>>>> 11. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in >>> paganism. >>> >>>>> Hubal the moon god of the Kabah >>>>> Allah the moon god of the Kabah >>>>> Remnants of pagan Moon god worship in the Koran >>>>> Pre-Islamic Origin of the word Allah >>>>> Photogallery of the ancient history of Moon god worship >>>>> Modern usage of moon god symbols in Islam today. >>>> That does not show that they worship a moon god. >>>> You wouldn't persuade anyone that you know what you are talking about. >>> Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque?- Skjul= "The Star and Crescent signifies concentration, openness and victory, as well as sovereignty and divinity. According to tradition, in 339 BC a brilliant waxing moon save Byzantium (now Istanbul) from attack by Philip of Macedon. To mark their gratitude, the citizens adopted the Crescent of Diana as the city's emblem. When the city became the Christian Constantinople in 330 AD, its Crescent assumed the significance of an attribute of the Virgin Mary. In 1299, conquering what is now Turkey, Sultan Osman had a vision of a crescent moon stretching over the world; it thus became a symbol of the Ottoman dynasty, and when Constantinople fell to Muhammad II in 1453, the crescent came to represent both Islam and the Turkish empire. The star was added by Sultan Selim III in 1793 (its five points being established in 1844)." This information found in "Signs & Symbols, page 42, by Clare Gibson and is available from Barnes & Noble Books. The ISBN number is 0-7607-0217-9 Giuseppe Bottasini, 28 September 1998 >> tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >>> - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> Why do Christians celebrate a holiday named after a pagan goddess? > > You failed to answer the above question. > > I don't know if that is true. If it is true, I don't know the reason. I am > not an expert related to Bible history. A Jehovahs Witness told me > something about the origin of Christmas. I don't worship any pagan > goddesses. You failed to answer the above question. Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Michael Gray wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:15:52 -0700, johac > <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote: > - Refer: <jhachmann-DB11DE.22155226062007@news.giganews.com> >> In article <1vj3835t86vajghq9n05jc1n7qdhe7ntud@4ax.com>, >> Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:58:27 -0700, johac >>> <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> - Refer: <jhachmann-2EB388.15582726062007@news.giganews.com> >>>> In article >>>> <Jason-2506071038350001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >>>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>> >>>>> In article <5ea5jrF383thsU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >>>>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote >>>>>> >>>>>> snip >>>>>> >>>>>>> If they read their Bibles, they will know all about the true God. >>>>>> What makes your god the "true" one? >>>>> Books have been written on that subject. >>>> I read books on Greek mythology. Does that mean that Zeus is the true >>>> god? >>> Of course. >>> The non-existent Zeus can kick the non-existent YHWH's butt any time! >>> >> With one thunderbolt tied behind his back. So could Odin. > > Odin is feeling a little thor at the moment... I KNEW those guys were a little light in the loafers!!!!!!! Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > My point is that various people rejected the evidence based upon what they > already believe. Yes, Jason, you do reject the evidence based on what you already believe. Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <8g6u731o90673ank4uvv85k002ga1b5uom@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > >> In alt.atheism On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:25:31 -0700, Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) let us all know that: >> >>> I would never believe that life could evolve from non-life unless it was >>> proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. >> So where did god come from? I know that you cop-out every time >> this is asked, but that just shows how hypocritical you are. >> >> >> Don >> --- >> aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde >> Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. >> >> "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" >> Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" > > The Bible does not indicate how God came to be. I would never believe that god came about from non-life unless it was proved to me that it could happen in a scientific experiment. Quote
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