Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 09:32, Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 1:10 pm, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > > On 26 Jun., 22:28, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:> In article <1182888536.294395.68...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > snip > > > > > > Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque?- Skjul= > > > > tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > Why do Christians celebrate a holiday named after a pagan goddess? > > > > You failed to answer the above question. > > > I will try again (not that it will make any difference). Neither > > Christians or Moslems worship pagan deities. Both Christians and > > Moslems have both names and symbols derived from such worship. Try > > and see if you can understand that. > > There's no significant difference between pagan religions and either > of the world's currently most popular religions. > > Martin- Skjul tekst i anf Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 16:13, Mike <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > johac wrote: > > In article <juOdnXAbp-cADOPbnZ2dnUVZ_u7in...@comcast.com>, > > John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>> On 23 Jun., 20:09, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > >> (snip) > >>>> Keep posting here long enough, and you will join their ranks. > >>> There is a good chance he will encourage other theists to become > >>> atheists. One might suspect that he was hired by the EEC (which > >>> doesn't exist of course) to pretend to be a theist. > >> He works hard for the money. > > > EEC? Evil Existentialist Conspiracy? I wonder if Jean-Paul Sartre knows > > about it. > > No, no, no! It's the Evil Evolutionists Conspiracy. > > sheesh They are just an offshoot of the Evil European Conspiracy. Quote
Guest James Burns Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > [in reply to article <46811A14.2050701@osu.edu>, > James Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> ] > If ID was taught in every biology class in America, none of > those things would happen. Thousands of children in each state > learn about ID in Christian schools and as part of home > schooling programs. The graduates don't cause pestilence, war, > famine and death. "Pestilence, War, Famine, and Death" was a reference to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. (Note the capitals.) What some Christians want is the Second Coming, which they believe will be preceded by actual pestilence, war, famine, and death (no caps). Maybe even some believe in personifications of those things, Pestilence, War, Famine, and Death (with caps), coming down out of the sky. You would know better than I would about that, I think. Would hard-line, "Bible-believing" Christians try to "prepare the way" for the events in Revelations? It's clear that they would; it's clear that they have been doing so. Why have the Religious Right in the US suddenly, after centuries of anti-semitism, become one of the state of Israel's stongest supporters? Because a state of Israel is needed as one of the actors in the drama laid out in the Book of Revelations. > You are paranoid about nothing. Stalin was > an atheist and he killed millions of people. Stalinism was a religion in every sense except that Stalin did not refer to himself as a god. Those millions died at least partly from the effort to establish it as the state religion in the USSR. Stalinism is actually a much better example of what is wrong with having an established church than what I was thinking of, the Thirty Years War. I suspect the reason Stalinism was so much worse than the TYW is that we had several centuries of research and development in the field of inflicting atrocities between them. So, the ID folks want to establish a church in the US. It doesn't matter to me if you want to deny it; that's what it all comes down to when you peel the rhetoric off. There's been a lot of discussion in this thread about how ID is just wrong factually -- and it is -- but what I find much more disturbing is what the lessons of history show, over and over and over, when someone establishes or even tries to establish a church. You, Jason, may well be willing to accept the human cost involved; I don't know. (Tell me, Jason, how you would feel about those deaths in the USSR if, instead of Stalin, it had been led by Jerry Falwell, establishing a Christian Empire? Would they have been worth the outcome?) I strongly suspect, though, that the 68% poll in Ohio did not talk about all this, though. How much support does your ID crowd really have, for, you know, the big picture <wink, wink>? Jim Burns Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <dluq73l0ie6fkskinqjid3debdr7rjmgt5@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:06:45 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2206072206450001@66-52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>> In article <1182572553.938822.32570@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>> <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Jun 23, 10:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>> In article <1182564394.114180.179...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>>>> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 23, 9:07 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>> In article > <1182559318.400394.79...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>>>>>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jun 23, 2:55 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article <sbtn73187me30fr561n1btfpo0u3sho...@4ax.com>, > Free Lunch >>>>>>>>>> So it doesn't bother you that the authors of _Of Pandas and >>>>> People_ are >>>>>>>>>> liars? It doesn't bother you that they don't care at all about >>>>> the First >>>>>>>>>> Amendment? It doesn't bother you that they lied to a judge in a >>>>> federal >>>>>>>>>> trial? >>>>>>>>>> Tell me again why you claim to be a Christian. >>>>>>>>> There is a law. There goal was to comply with the law. >>>>>>>> No, their goal was to get around the law, but they didn't fool >>>>>>>> anybody. As you said yourself, even children would know that >>>>>>>> "intelligent design" is religion in disguise. >>>>>>> You failed to tell me your opinion about the Roman Empire site that I >>>>>>> referred you to. >>>>>> I have no opinion about the site because I didn't look at it. When I >>>>>> was in high school, I read the book "The Rise and Fall of the Roman >>>>>> Empire" as part of my grade 11 history course so I am probably more >>>>>> familiar with the history of the Roman Empire than you. Do you want to >>>>>> actually test me on the subject? >>>>> Only one question: >>>>> Do you think that America will decline and fall for many of the same >>>>> reasons the Roman Empire declined and fell? >>>> As I recall, the fall of the Roman Empire was for economic reasons: >>>> the Roman Empire had expanded to the point where it had an enormous >>>> border that had to be regularly patrolled in order to keep out >>>> barbarian invaders. The budget was spread so thin that they couldn't >>>> afford armour for their soldiers and thus their soldiers weren't much >>>> use against their enemies. Moral was also low in the military: the >>>> Empire had over expanded and the once mighty military had now become a >>>> defensive force. >>>> >>>> With the army patrolling the border states, the Emperor had to worry >>>> about unrest at home. Rather than face an uprising from the >>>> unemployed masses of the empire, the Empire introduced welfare to >>>> appease the masses: whereas before the mighty empire was bringing in >>>> money from taxation, it was now giving out money. It became a welfare >>>> state. This further drained the empire's coffers and restricted the >>>> amount of money that could be spent on the military. >>>> >>>> America IS in a state of decline, as can be measured by the declining >>>> dollar: this is a direct measure of the perceived value of the >>>> American economy. The decline can easily be associated with the war >>>> in Iraq, now in its fifth year. Just as the Roman Empire had >>>> overexpanded, the United States now has forces in Afganistan and Iraq, >>>> in addition to its NATO commitment and its bases in South Korea. The >>>> United States has, like the Roman Empire, overexpanded and the economy >>>> is suffering as a result. >>>> >>>> "Those who fail to learn the lessons that history teaches, are doomed >>>> to repeat them" - George Santayana >>>> >>>> I have a question for you: what does the fall of the Roman Empire have >>>> to do with the book _Pandas and People_? >>>> >>>> Martin >>> Martin, >>> Thanks for your post. My question is not related to the Pandas and People >>> book. I believe that if Hillary elected and Democrats are in control of >>> both houses of Congress--it will cause the slow decline and fall of >>> America. >> That beats the fast decline and fall that we have been suffering under >> Bush and the Republicans who ran Congress recently. They're fake >> conservatives. >> >>> A national healthcare program will cost billions of dollars--each >>> year. All of the huge companies and state agencies that provide health >>> care will no longer have to pay for health care for their employees. The >>> Fed'l government will provide free heath care for everyone. Social >>> Security and Medicare are already costing billions of dollars each year. >> Total health care costs will go down because our current system is >> extremely inefficient. Right now, the governments in the United States >> spend roughly as much as governments in other developed countries for >> health care, yet those countries cover everyone and we, alone, do not. >> Roughly 15% of Americans have no coverage. >> >>> The rich people already know how to avoid paying high taxes by keeping >>> their money in banks in South America. You mentioned the decline of the >>> value of a dollar--it will keep going down. Visit a Walmart--most of those >>> products were NOT made in America--they are made in China. Many factories >>> have closed down. The decline and fall of America started about 10 years >>> ago and will fall like a lead balloon if Hillary Clinton is elected and >>> Democates control both houses of Congress. >> The US was running a federal surplus before Bush took over and cut taxes >> for the rich and started wars that he refused to pay for. >> >>> In addition, we are being invaded by a foreign country (Mexico). >> No, we aren't being invaded. >> >>> Didn't the Roman Empire also have problems with illegal immigrants. >> Immigrants are not a problem. >> >>> Have you heard about the Social Security >>> Disability Program. It was designed to take care of people that were so >>> disabled that they were not able to work. The program has now been >>> expanded to take care of anyone that does not want to work. Alcoholics, >>> Addicts, and people that suffer from depression can now get social >>> security disability checks. >> So you think it's okay to pick on people with mental health problems >> because you cannot see their disease? > > I have no problem with people with severe mental health problems getting > social security disability payments. However, people that are too lazy to > work know how to download the symptoms of depression. Various lawyers are > able to get those sorts of people disability checks and the lawyers are > paid for their services by the federal government. If you choose to > believe that all of the people that receive disability checks truly are > disabled and are not able to work--that is your choice. Do you know how much (or rather how LITTLE a disability payment is? It's usually in the area of $800-$1000/month for most people that have actually worked long enough to even be able to get disability (SSI, which a person could get even if they never worked, is around $400/month.) Have you ever tried to live on $800-1000 a month? Do you honestly think people would want to live on so little? Oh, wait, I forgot; you thought a pregnant woman could live 3-5 months on less than $1000. Never mind, we already know how warped your ideas are of what it takes to live these days. Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Free Lunch wrote: > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:55:08 -0700, in alt.atheism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> I don't mind providing charity to people that need it. I don't like >> providing charity to people that are too lazy to work for a living. >> > But you _know_ who is too lazy and who is seriously ill? You can tell > that without actually giving them a medical review? Of COURSE he can. This is the almighty Oz^H^HJason we're talking about here. He "sees all and knows all." Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <f5j9h2$nq7$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> In article <1182563716.516862.110290@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>> <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Jun 23, 9:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>> In article <1182559237.898964.32...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>>>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:51:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>>>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>>>>>> <Jason-2106071151200...@66-52-22-87.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>>>>>> In article >>> <1182427767.298489.13...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>>>>>>>> <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 3:56 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>> Remember learning about the Scopes Monkey Trial. The >>> Christians were >>>>>>>>>>> trying to keep out the teaching of evolution in the public >>>>> schools. I do >>>>>>>>>>> believe that the advocates of evolution are doing the same >>>>> thing those >>>>>>>>>>> Christians done--keeping out the competition. They have the >>> judges on >>>>>>>>>>> their side so they will probably succeed. >>>>>>>>>> The Judges of today are in place to prevent such a travesty >>> of justice >>>>>>>>>> from occuring again: Scopes LOST the right to teach the truth about >>>>>>>>>> evolution to his students. Eventually teachers won the right >>> to teach >>>>>>>>>> the truth: you want to take that right away from them and have them >>>>>>>>>> teach creationism instead. >>>>>>>>> They can teach evolution and Intellegent Design. >>>>>>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? >>>>>>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and >>> curriculum >>>>>>> guide to teach those classes. >>>>>> You didn't answer the question, Jason. >>>>> I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't know what >>>>> sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. >>>> Have you even seen this book you are recommending? Do you remember it >>>> containing any scientific facts? What were they? >>>> >>>> Martin >>> Martin, >>> No--I don't recall recommending the book to anyone. Someone asked me what >>> sort of information would be taught which is why I looked for the title of >>> the book in the ICR newsletter. The description indicated the book had "no >>> Biblical content." >> And they lied. It talks about a designer (which you have admitted is >> another way of referring to God.) That right there is biblical content >> (since that's the only source of any information about this god.) >> >>> Related to another post: >>> What sort of creature did the cluster of one celled life forms evolve into? >> If it's a cluster, it's not a " ONE celled life form" (do you honestly >> read these things before you post them?) But to answer the question of >> "What sort of creature did the one celled life forms evolve into?", the >> answer is "all life that you see around you." > > However, before it evolved into "all life that you see around you." it > must have evolved into some sort of creature--true or false? True. And your point is? > If so, I would like to know if scientists have done any research > indicating that the mass of cells evolved into a creature? As has been told to you time and time again; yes, they have. > Of course, I doubt that a mass of cells evolved into any type of creature. Of course I doubt that you have a clue as to what you're talking about. > It may have evolved into a larger mass of cells or perhaps some of the > cells evolved into other types of cells. What, exactly, do you think a creature is if it's not "a larger mass of cells"? Is it a pile of sand? A group of snowflakes? A clump of dirt? Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <f5j9aa$nq7$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> In article <1182559237.898964.32770@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>> Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? >>>>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and curriculum >>>>> guide to teach those classes. >>>> You didn't answer the question, Jason. >>>> >>>> Martin >>> Martin, >>> I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't know what >>> sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. >> Again, you didn't answer the question, Jason. It was "what scientific >> facts can they teach about ID?" and NOT "what scientific facts are >> contained in a specific book?" >> >> If ID is scientific, then there should be some specific scientific facts >> that can be taught about it. What are some of them? > > Regardless, I don't know what scientific facts ID has. Then how do you know it's scientific? Try visiting their > website. I don't need to. > You never did answer my question. Yes, I did and no, you didn't. You mentioned all of the research that > has been done on that cluster of cells. What sort of creature evolved from > that cluster of cells? All the creatures that you see around you. Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <111r73drpnujfmtbbtq6h7mger4on496n1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:08:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2306071108190001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>> In article <f5j9aa$nq7$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >>> <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Jason wrote: >>>>> In article <1182559237.898964.32770@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>>>> Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? >>>>>>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and > curriculum >>>>>>> guide to teach those classes. >>>>>> You didn't answer the question, Jason. >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin >>>>> Martin, >>>>> I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't > know what >>>>> sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. >>>> Again, you didn't answer the question, Jason. It was "what scientific >>>> facts can they teach about ID?" and NOT "what scientific facts are >>>> contained in a specific book?" >>>> >>>> If ID is scientific, then there should be some specific scientific facts >>>> that can be taught about it. What are some of them? >>> Regardless, I don't know what scientific facts ID has. >> No one does. There are none. >> >>> Try visiting their website. >> It won't help. >> >>> You never did answer my question. You mentioned all of the research that >>> has been done on that cluster of cells. What sort of creature evolved from >>> that cluster of cells? >> You've demonstrated that you don't care. If you did, you would learn >> something about biology. > > You failed to answer the question. Black Hole, snow, black. I suspect the reason is because no > creature evolved from that cluster of cells. > > Quote
Guest Mike Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <149r73h2ir1qso5isju4u6a29mthvs3msh@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:27:13 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2306071427140001@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>> In article <111r73drpnujfmtbbtq6h7mger4on496n1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>> <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:08:19 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>>> <Jason-2306071108190001@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>>>> In article <f5j9aa$nq7$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >>>>> <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jason wrote: >>>>>>> In article > <1182559237.898964.32770@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >>>>>>> Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>>>>>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? >>>>>>>>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and >>> curriculum >>>>>>>>> guide to teach those classes. >>>>>>>> You didn't answer the question, Jason. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> Martin, >>>>>>> I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't >>> know what >>>>>>> sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. >>>>>> Again, you didn't answer the question, Jason. It was "what scientific >>>>>> facts can they teach about ID?" and NOT "what scientific facts are >>>>>> contained in a specific book?" >>>>>> >>>>>> If ID is scientific, then there should be some specific scientific > facts >>>>>> that can be taught about it. What are some of them? >>>>> Regardless, I don't know what scientific facts ID has. >>>> No one does. There are none. >>>> >>>>> Try visiting their website. >>>> It won't help. >>>> >>>>> You never did answer my question. You mentioned all of the research that >>>>> has been done on that cluster of cells. What sort of creature evolved from >>>>> that cluster of cells? >>>> You've demonstrated that you don't care. If you did, you would learn >>>> something about biology. >>> You failed to answer the question. I suspect the reason is because no >>> creature evolved from that cluster of cells. >>> >> Your suspicion arises from your carefully cultivated ignorance. >> >> As usual, you are wrong. > > Please tell me more about the creature that evolved from that cluster of > cells. Did it have a heart? Did it have eyes? Where can I see a picture of > this creature that evolved from a cluster of cells? Look in a mirror. Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in snip > > Martin, > I have never an attended a funeral for an atheist. Perhaps the person in > charge of the funeral would say something like: > > "He was a wonderful person. In about 100 years, his body will be nothing > but dust and that will be the end of his existence." And perhaps he wouldn't say the second sentence at all. Why would he? -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On 27 Jun., 15:31, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote > > snip > > > > > No--the typical communist has this point of view about religion: > > > Religion is the opiate of the masses. > > What makes you think you know what a typical communist thinks? > > BTW, atheism doesn't equal communism. > -- > Robyn > Resident Witchypoo > BAAWA Knight! > #1557 It is pointless to deny anything. Jason can read minds. He knows what atheists think. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182942920.940426.276890@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 27 Jun., 02:02, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the > > > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her grandmother was > > > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. > > > > > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted > > > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise > > > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to > > > be adults with poorly developed minds. > > > > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child > > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket > > that was buried in the dirt. > > Nobody but you has suggested that the child need be told that. In any > case it would not be true. The person no longer exists, so she is not > to be found anywhere buried or otherwise. The grandmother is dead but the realiity is that the grandmother's body is still in the casket. Many Christians explain to children when they visit the grave that the relative's body is still in the casket but the relative's soul is in heaven with God. I don't know what atheists tell their children when they visit the graves of relatives. If you visited the grave of a relative with a small child, what would you tell the child? Jason Quote
Guest Bob T. Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 9:56 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182942920.940426.276...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On 27 Jun., 02:02, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the > > > > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her > grandmother was > > > > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. > > > > > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted > > > > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise > > > > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to > > > > be adults with poorly developed minds. > > > > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child > > > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket > > > that was buried in the dirt. > > > Nobody but you has suggested that the child need be told that. In any > > case it would not be true. The person no longer exists, so she is not > > to be found anywhere buried or otherwise. > > The grandmother is dead but the realiity is that the grandmother's body is > still in the casket. Many Christians explain to children when they visit > the grave that the relative's body is still in the casket but the > relative's soul is in heaven with God. I don't know what atheists tell > their children when they visit the graves of relatives. If you visited the > grave of a relative with a small child, what would you tell the child? We say "Grandma was a wonderful person and we miss her". If the child asked if Grandma is in Heaven, I would answer that I don't believe there really is a Heaven. When you visit the grave of a relative with a child, and the child asks "how do you know she is in Heaven, not Hell", what do you say? Do you say "I don't know for sure, but I hope she is in Heaven" or do you lie? - Bob T. > Jason- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <468286BD.8080301@osu.edu>, James Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > [in reply to article <46811A14.2050701@osu.edu>, > > James Burns <burns.87@osu.edu> ] > > > If ID was taught in every biology class in America, none of > > those things would happen. Thousands of children in each state > > learn about ID in Christian schools and as part of home > > schooling programs. The graduates don't cause pestilence, war, > > famine and death. > > "Pestilence, War, Famine, and Death" was a reference to the > Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. (Note the capitals.) > > What some Christians want is the Second Coming, which they believe > will be preceded by actual pestilence, war, famine, and death > (no caps). Maybe even some believe in personifications of > those things, Pestilence, War, Famine, and Death (with caps), > coming down out of the sky. You would know better than I would > about that, I think. > > Would hard-line, "Bible-believing" Christians try to "prepare > the way" for the events in Revelations? It's clear that they > would; it's clear that they have been doing so. Why have the > Religious Right in the US suddenly, after centuries of > anti-semitism, become one of the state of Israel's stongest > supporters? Because a state of Israel is needed as one of the > actors in the drama laid out in the Book of Revelations. > > > You are paranoid about nothing. Stalin was > > an atheist and he killed millions of people. > > Stalinism was a religion in every sense except that Stalin > did not refer to himself as a god. Those millions died > at least partly from the effort to establish it as > the state religion in the USSR. > > Stalinism is actually a much better example of what is > wrong with having an established church than what I was > thinking of, the Thirty Years War. I suspect the reason > Stalinism was so much worse than the TYW is that we had > several centuries of research and development in the > field of inflicting atrocities between them. > > So, the ID folks want to establish a church in the US. > It doesn't matter to me if you want to deny it; that's > what it all comes down to when you peel the rhetoric off. > There's been a lot of discussion in this thread about how > ID is just wrong factually -- and it is -- but what I find > much more disturbing is what the lessons of history show, > over and over and over, when someone establishes or even > tries to establish a church. > > You, Jason, may well be willing to accept the human cost > involved; I don't know. (Tell me, Jason, how you would > feel about those deaths in the USSR if, instead of > Stalin, it had been led by Jerry Falwell, establishing > a Christian Empire? Would they have been worth the > outcome?) I strongly suspect, though, that the 68% > poll in Ohio did not talk about all this, though. > How much support does your ID crowd really have, > for, you know, the big picture <wink, wink>? > > Jim Burns Jim, I doubt that ID will ever be taught in the public schoools so you have nothing to fear. Even if ID was taught, all of the problems you discussed would probably not happen. I have never done any research related to the many adults that are graduates of Christian high schools. It's my guess that the vast majority of them are not guilty of any of those things that you mentioned in your post. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <f5u2fa$imh$4@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <f5j9aa$nq7$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> In article <1182559237.898964.32770@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >>> Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? > >>>>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and curriculum > >>>>> guide to teach those classes. > >>>> You didn't answer the question, Jason. > >>>> > >>>> Martin > >>> Martin, > >>> I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't know what > >>> sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. > >> Again, you didn't answer the question, Jason. It was "what scientific > >> facts can they teach about ID?" and NOT "what scientific facts are > >> contained in a specific book?" > >> > >> If ID is scientific, then there should be some specific scientific facts > >> that can be taught about it. What are some of them? > > > > Regardless, I don't know what scientific facts ID has. > > Then how do you know it's scientific? > > Try visiting their > > website. > > I don't need to. > > > You never did answer my question. > > Yes, I did and no, you didn't. > > You mentioned all of the research that > > has been done on that cluster of cells. What sort of creature evolved from > > that cluster of cells? > > All the creatures that you see around you. Please tell me about an experiment where a cluster of cells evolved into a life form. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <f5tmlm$535$7@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <1182888536.294395.68200@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > > > >> On 26 Jun., 03:27, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>> In article <mip083tkkqhcp757tku7i60mga5nmhp...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:49:48 -0700, in alt.atheism > >>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>>> <Jason-2506071749490...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >>>>> In article <r0n083d7l69bkbc3m7p60j3l60hlme9...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > >>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:46:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >>>>>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>>>>> <Jason-2506071046360...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >>>>>>> In article <stqv7396nu5e3jsncsntpea7hi1dvcr...@4ax.com>, John Baker > >>>>>>> <n...@bizniz.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:28:42 -0700, gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On 25 Jun., 03:35, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>> For those people that believe Yahweh and Allah are the same > >>> God--please > >>>>>>>>>> explain why there is a symbol of a crescent moon on top of > >>> every Mormon > >>>>>>>>>> Mosque in the world? > >>>>>>>> Sure, Jason. Just as soon as you tell me where I might find a > >>>>>>>> Mormon mosque. <G> > >>>>>>> Sorry--I meant Muslim Mosque. > >>>>>> Which Mosque would you be willing to go into and tell the worshippers > >>>>>> that they do not worship the God of Abraham? What evidence can you > >>>>>> provide them that you are right and that Mohammed lied to them? > >>>>> Hubal and Allah the Moon God? > >>>>> Islam: Truth or Myth? start page > >>>>> Introduction to basic facts of history: > >>>>> 1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The > >>>>> crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as = > >> far > >>>>> back as 2000 BC. > >>>>> 2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. > >>>>> 3. This Hubal was a moon god. > >>>>> 4. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal w= > >> as > >>>>> placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This= > >> may > >>>>> in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every mina= > >> ret > >>>>> at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque > >>>>> throughout the world: > >>>>> About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr > >>>>> bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol > >>>>> called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deitie= > >> s of > >>>>> the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sar= > >> war > >>>>> (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim) > >>>>> 5. The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a pr= > >> oper > >>>>> name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the go= > >> d". > >>>>> Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan > >>>>> god as "al-ilah". > >>>>> 6. "al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began > >>>>> promoting his new religion in 610 AD. > >>>>> 7. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah". > >>>>> 8. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name > >>>>> "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah". > >>>>> 9. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at t= > >> he > >>>>> Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms. > >>>>> 10. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam= > >> is > >>>>> derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. > >>>>> 11. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in > >>> paganism. > >>> > >>>>> Hubal the moon god of the Kabah > >>>>> Allah the moon god of the Kabah > >>>>> Remnants of pagan Moon god worship in the Koran > >>>>> Pre-Islamic Origin of the word Allah > >>>>> Photogallery of the ancient history of Moon god worship > >>>>> Modern usage of moon god symbols in Islam today. > >>>> That does not show that they worship a moon god. > >>>> You wouldn't persuade anyone that you know what you are talking about. > >>> Why is there the symbol of a crescent moon on top of every mosque?- Skjul= > > "The Star and Crescent signifies concentration, openness and victory, as > well as sovereignty and divinity. According to tradition, in 339 BC a > brilliant waxing moon save Byzantium (now Istanbul) from attack by > Philip of Macedon. To mark their gratitude, the citizens adopted the > Crescent of Diana as the city's emblem. When the city became the > Christian Constantinople in 330 AD, its Crescent assumed the > significance of an attribute of the Virgin Mary. > > In 1299, conquering what is now Turkey, Sultan Osman had a vision of a > crescent moon stretching over the world; it thus became a symbol of the > Ottoman dynasty, and when Constantinople fell to Muhammad II in 1453, > the crescent came to represent both Islam and the Turkish empire. The > star was added by Sultan Selim III in 1793 (its five points being > established in 1844)." > > This information found in "Signs & Symbols, page 42, by Clare Gibson and > is available from Barnes & Noble Books. The ISBN number is 0-7607-0217-9 > Giuseppe Bottasini, 28 September 1998 > > >> tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >>> - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > >> Why do Christians celebrate a holiday named after a pagan goddess? > > > > You failed to answer the above question. > > > > I don't know if that is true. If it is true, I don't know the reason. I am > > not an expert related to Bible history. A Jehovahs Witness told me > > something about the origin of Christmas. I don't worship any pagan > > goddesses. > > You failed to answer the above question. Thanks for your post. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182957003.068411.237250@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 27 Jun., 08:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182921562.532086.9...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 27 Jun., 01:26, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182892095.064389.276...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On 26 Jun., 20:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > In article <1182873694.135711.325...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >snip > > > > > > > > > > I did not state that Christian Arabs are not really Christians. > > > > Christian > > > > > > > > Arabs are really Christians even if they call God by the name of > > > > Allah.- = > > > > > > > Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > > > > > > Good, you admit your entire argument has been invalid. > > > > > > > > Not true--The Christians Arabs will eventually understand (as a > > result of > > > > > > reading their Bibles) that God is vastly different than the moon > > > > > > god-- > > > > > > > Eventually understand? They do not believe in any moon god now. > > > > > > The Quran indicates that the moon god is unknowable. > > > > > First of all that is irrelevant, since we are talking about Christian > > > Arabs. Secondly it is not true; the Quran forbids worship of the Moon > > > god. > > > > > >The moon God is so > > > > exalted that no man can ever personally know Allah. In his book that is > > > > entitled, "Jesus and Muhammad, Mark Gabriel, a former devout Muslim, says: > > > > "If you ask a Muslim, Do you how much Allah loves your? he will respond, > > > > 'I don't know how much he loves me. Only Allah knows.' > > > > > And he is not talking about the Moon god. > > > > That is correct. He believe Allah and Yahweh are the same God. > > > And he is forbidden to worship the Moon god by the Quran. Thank you > for admitting that you were lying. It would be even better if you > stopped. > snip I continue to believe that Allah was derived from the moon God. However, I now believe that most Muslims honestly believe that Allah and Yahweh are the same God. One Christian that was once a Muslim believes that Muhammed mis-informed people about the nature of God in the Quran. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182929367.964907.126800@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 12:54 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182913159.985342.95...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 27, 2:34 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > We are in agreement--evolution is a theory. Yes, the theory explains the > > > > facts that are backed up with evidence. > > > > > Remember this the next time you claim there is no evidence supporting > > > evolution. > > > > I have stated in other posts that I support Natural Selection. > > Then you support the theory of evolution and admit that there are > facts supporting it, facts backed up by actual evidence. Good. > > Martin I don't support abiogenesis and common descent. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182943627.114275.286240@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 27 Jun., 02:48, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:53:44 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote in > > <1182873224.668805.269...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 26 Jun., 01:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> In article <1182812406.148531.4...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > >> > On 25 Jun., 08:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>= > , "Bob > > > > >> > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > >> > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > > > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.= > com>, "=3D > > >> > Bob > > > > >> > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > >> > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. > > > > >> > > > > > <snip article> > > > > >> > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious = > nutcases > > >> > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish= > that > > >> > > > > > America was more like Iran. > > > > >> > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > >> > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Chris= > tians. > > > > >> > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitio= > us > > >> > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Mu= > slim > > >> > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision = > would > > >> > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knock= > ing on > > >> > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. > > > > >> > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freed= > om, > > >> > > > including freedom from religion. > > > > >> > > > - Bob T. > > > > >> > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to = > take > > >> > > over the world--one country at a time. > > > > >> > It is also the goal of Christians. You said so. > > > > >> There is a BIG difference. If people refuse to become Muslims, the Mus= > lims > > >> chop off thier heads. If people refuse to become Christians, we don't = > harm > > >> them in any way. Has any Christian ever harmed you or threatened you? > > > > >> > They are presently committing > > >> > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. > > > > >> > All the Moslems are doing that? Even the ones that are at war with > > >> > each other? Stop being such a fool. > > > > >> > After they take over control > > >> > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take = > over > > >> > > surrounding countries. > > > > >> > The Sudan is a Muslem country and has been for many centuries. > > > > >> The Muslims from Middle east are taking over the Sudan. They are either > > >> killing the Black Muslims or forcing them to leave the country. > > > > >The ones doing the killing are nomadic tribesmen in the Sudan. The > > >Blacks are animists and Christians. You are once again exposed as an > > >ignorant liar. > > > > You are confusing two different wars. The war in the south was the > > Moslems of the north against the animists and Christians of the south. > > The war in Darfur is more tribal, but generally everyone involved is > > Moslem. > > This from "On Line Report" > > "Rebel Groups in Darfur > > Although unified in their desire for an independent Darfur, the rebel > groups fighting the Sudanese government have been plagued by deep > internal divisions and power struggles. > > The region's many rebel groups agreed on Jan. 20, 2006 to join forces > under the Alliance of Revolutionary Forces of Western Sudan, however, > several months later, the rebels still were negotiating with the > African Union and the Sudanese government through different leaders > and factions. > > There are two main rebel groups within the alliance. The larger one, > the Sudanese Liberation Army/Movement, represents non-Muslim tribal > Africans and is led by Minni Arcua Minnawi and Abdel Wahed Mohamed el- > Nur." > > As you see the largest group is non Moslem. Thanks for your post. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182956416.213454.77790@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 27 Jun., 07:08, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182920084.264354.52...@k29g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 26 Jun., 21:00, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182873774.679677.7...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > > snip > > > > > > The relevant question is why do you argue for a position that has > > > already been demonstrated to be wrong? The article you yourself > > > posted contradicts your description of the situation in Darfur. In > > > any event I would be very surprised if there were no Arabs in Darfur, > > > or Frenchmen or Americans etc., but you are still completely wrong; > > > and you have provided documentation that shows you are wrong. > > > > Yes, I found out from my web search that the Christians live in the > > southern part of the Sudan. I was under the impression there were some > > Christians living in Darfur but found out I was wrong. > > There are Christians in Darfur. > > There are Arabs in > > Darfur that are funded by Arabs from the Middle East. > > The local tribal militias are funded by the government of the Sudan. > Your article confirms this. > > The Arabs in the > > Middle East probably have a long range plan that involves taking over all > > oil wells in the Sudan. > > And you base that on your fantasy. > > > > I only posted one of the reports that I read. > > The one you posted contradicts your claims. > > > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - I did not post it but found at least one or two sites indicating that Muslims from the middle east are funding the Arab Muslims in Darfur. I found it by conducting a google search for "Arabs in Darfur". I surmised the reason why this is happening. There are oil wells in the South part of Sudan. It's my guess that is the ultimate goal of the Muslims from the middle east. They understand the importance of having control over those oil wells. These are my opinions. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182943044.707042.5810@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > On 27 Jun., 01:42, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182890874.445300.325...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On 26 Jun., 20:10, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1182873615.385634.169...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > snip > > > > The question was whether or not teachers should go along with teaching > > > that the Earth is flat if the majority wanted that taught. You did > > > not address that question at all. It is amazing how you lie about > > > what everybody can see. > > > > One reason I did not respond is because that would never happen. Is the > > correct term for this: non sequitur?- > > No, the question was quite valid. You want to allow the majority > determine what will be taught regardless of their knowledge or > experience. Are you willing to apply this to anything at all? Should > we teach astrology in an astronomy class, since so many people believe > in astronomy? Should the curriculum of medical schools be subject to > popular vote? Why, in short, should we limit majority rule to just > the teaching of creation science or ID? The question is very valid, > yet you avoid it. I understand your point of view. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <f5tl6k$535$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <1182914771.873163.36550@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > >>> Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim mosque in > >>> the world? > >> Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why > >> does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, > >> icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the > >> heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which > >> is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do > >> Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that > >> Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and > >> therefore on Monday? > >> > >> Answer the damn questions, Jason. > >> > >> Martin > > > > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research regarding > > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. > > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You > > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the > > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. I suggest > > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states that > > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. > > And yet your bible clearly says he would rise after THREE days. > > Where's the 3rd day, Jason? Do you now believe wikipedia over your own > bible? The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the time aspects than we know today since they were witnesses. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <u0m483t1k9qt51fc20obibri4tgrtpb6oc@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:36:14 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2606072136150001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > >In article <1182912481.204273.80920@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jun 27, 2:08 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443...@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > >> > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > >> > > (Jason) in > >> > > <Jason-2506071804250...@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > > >> > > [snip] > >> > > >> > > >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding > >> > > >school curriculum. > >> > > >> > > And they do, in every state even. > >> > > >> > > >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and > >> > > >evolution to be taught. > >> > > >> > > I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that you > >> > > have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did decide to > >> > > teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing to > >> > > teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters of ID, > >> > > have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID (even > >> > > though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools to > >> > > "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no content > >> > > to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy over that > >> > > (non-existent) content. > >> > > >> > > So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an Intelligent > >> > > Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what "Intelligent" > >> > > means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect intelligence > >> > > and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the designers > >> > > acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the > >> > > designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. That is, > >> > > answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a clue > >> > > on how someone would go about learning the answers to those questions. > >> > > I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. > >> > > >> > The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" which > >> > has no Biblical content. > >> > >> And no science content. > >> > >> If I were a high school principal, I would not hire anyone who thought > >> an "intelligent designer" created mankind and I would fire anybody who > >> would bring such nonsense into a science classroom. I'd replace that > >> person with a qualified teacher immediately. Nobody should call > >> themselves a "teacher" and lie to young kids. It's disgraceful! > >> > >> Martin > > > >I don't know whether or not such a teacher could file a religious > >discrimination lawsuit. Teachers may not be allowed to teach ID but they > >are allowed to be Christians. > > > Yes, they are. And overwhelmingly American teachers are Christians. > (Unless, of course, by "Christian" you mean your particular version of > the religion.) But teaching ID is about their actions, not their > beliefs. And plenty of Christians reject ID and reject creationism. That is true. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) in > >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> [snip] > >> >> > >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted > >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > >> >> > >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > >> > > >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > >> > > >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. > >> > >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with > >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the > >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled > >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > > > >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. > >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next > >time. > > How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your > motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source > material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its > supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to > promote Christianity? Matt, Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could arrange to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of religion. They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they will never succeed. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <d8m483tp7b6g9lv9i1ahbdvmi2uecv6vun@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:25:29 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) in > <Jason-2606072325290001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > [snip] > > >I hope that the people in the ID movement do a better job during the next > >court case. It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the > >children will realize that ID makes more sense than evolution so they will > >spend millions to keep any school systems from teaching ID. > > You keep saying this, but I doubt you believe it. You can't tell us > anything about ID, you can't tell us about the evidence in support of > it, all you do is point to the Discovery Institute or some evangelical > ministry. If it made more sense then you would make your case by > talking about ID. > > >If they were > >really sure that evolution would win the competition--they would not be > >concerned if it was taught in the public schools. > > Sorry, but the public schools are not a place for competition like > that. There is no other subject where people want to teach children > multiple ideas and let the child choose. We don't teach multiple > version of history, we don't teach multiple versions of math, and we > should not teach multiple versions of biology. That is, if you > actually had something to teach. But all you have is creationism, a > religious subject, and some vague claim that some designers did > somethings somewhere. (I have no idea how that makes sense to you.) Have you ever taking a class where two separate theories to explain the same thing was discussed. I can't think of any good examples. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.