Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182952838.174078.301250@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > On Jun 26, 11:25 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <4681fb79$0$30597$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, "Christopher > > > > > > > > > > > > Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > >news:Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95...@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > > > > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > > >> (Jason) in > > > >> <Jason-2606072112370...@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > > > >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mg...@4ax.com>, Matt > > > >> >Silberstein > > > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > > >> >> (Jason) in > > > >> >> <Jason-2606071749330...@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > > > >> >> [snip] > > > > > >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio > > > >> >> >wanted > > > >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > > > > > >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > > > > > >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > > > > > >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. > > > > > >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > > > >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with > > > >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the > > > >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled > > > >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > > > > > > Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. > > > > The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > > > > religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next > > > > time. > > > > Jason > > > > > Jason Brown had nothing to do with ID especially since ID was not thought up > > > yet as a new lie for Creationism. Now more to the point of the case if and > > > when the ID people come up with an actual scientific theory it can be > > > considered as being taught in classrooms, but they do not even claim they > > > have that. They have nothing to teach not a thing is was all a scam and now > > > they are looking for their next scam and next group of marks to pull it on. > > > Try not and be among the marks this time for these conmen in labcoats they > > > are trying to sell you snake oil. > > > > I hope that the people in the ID movement do a better job during the next > > court case. It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the > > children will realize that ID makes more sense than evolution so they will > > spend millions to keep any school systems from teaching ID. If they were > > really sure that evolution would win the competition--they would not be > > concerned if it was taught in the public schools. > > You have said this before, and it is nonsense. We don't want ID > taught in our schools for two reasons: > > 1) It is religion, not science. > 2) It is not true. > > Do you want your children taught that Thor uses his mighty hammer to > make the thunder? Why not? Is it because you are afraid that > children will realize that "Thor's hammer makes more sense than > meteorology"? Of course not - you don't want your children taught > about Thor for two reasons: > > 1) Norse mythology is a religious belief, not science. > 2) Norse mythology is not true. > > - Bob T. I understand your point. Quote
Guest Bob T. Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 On Jun 27, 10:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182952838.174078.301...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > On Jun 26, 11:25 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <4681fb79$0$30597$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, "Christopher > > > > Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > >news:Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95...@4ax.com>, Matt > Silberstein > > > > > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > > > >> (Jason) in > > > > >> <Jason-2606072112370...@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > > > >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mg...@4ax.com>, Matt > > > > >> >Silberstein > > > > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > > > >> >> (Jason) in > > > > >> >> <Jason-2606071749330...@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > > > >> >> [snip] > > > > > >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio > > > > >> >> >wanted > > > > >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > > > > > >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > > > > > >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > > > > > >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. > > > > > >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > > > > >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with > > > > >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the > > > > >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled > > > > >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > > > > > > Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand > your point. > > > > > The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > > > > > religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job > the next > > > > > time. > > > > > Jason > > > > > Jason Brown had nothing to do with ID especially since ID was not > thought up > > > > yet as a new lie for Creationism. Now more to the point of the case if and > > > > when the ID people come up with an actual scientific theory it can be > > > > considered as being taught in classrooms, but they do not even claim they > > > > have that. They have nothing to teach not a thing is was all a scam > and now > > > > they are looking for their next scam and next group of marks to pull > it on. > > > > Try not and be among the marks this time for these conmen in labcoats they > > > > are trying to sell you snake oil. > > > > I hope that the people in the ID movement do a better job during the next > > > court case. It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the > > > children will realize that ID makes more sense than evolution so they will > > > spend millions to keep any school systems from teaching ID. If they were > > > really sure that evolution would win the competition--they would not be > > > concerned if it was taught in the public schools. > > > You have said this before, and it is nonsense. We don't want ID > > taught in our schools for two reasons: > > > 1) It is religion, not science. > > 2) It is not true. > > > Do you want your children taught that Thor uses his mighty hammer to > > make the thunder? Why not? Is it because you are afraid that > > children will realize that "Thor's hammer makes more sense than > > meteorology"? Of course not - you don't want your children taught > > about Thor for two reasons: > > > 1) Norse mythology is a religious belief, not science. > > 2) Norse mythology is not true. > > > - Bob T. > > I understand your point. Thanks. By the way, unlike some of the other atheists discussing things with you, I respect the way you debate. I do not think you are a "troll", or that you are a liar. I do think you are wrong about many things, but I think you are sincere in your beliefs and, at least to some extent, willing to learn from others' opinions. - Bob T. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <1182968148.322829.8900@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > On Jun 27, 10:46 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1182952838.174078.301...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 26, 11:25 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <4681fb79$0$30597$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, "Christopher > > > > > > Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > > > In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95...@4ax.com>, Matt > > Silberstein > > > > > > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > > > > >> (Jason) in > > > > > >> <Jason-2606072112370...@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mg...@4ax.com>, Matt > > > > > >> >Silberstein > > > > > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , J...@nospam.com > > > > > >> >> (Jason) in > > > > > >> >> <Jason-2606071749330...@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >> >> [snip] > > > > > > > >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio > > > > > >> >> >wanted > > > > > >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > > > > > > > >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > > > > > > > >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > > > > > > > >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. > > > > > > > >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > > > > > >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with > > > > > >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the > > > > > >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled > > > > > >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > > > > > > > > Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand > > your point. > > > > > > The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > > > > > > religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job > > the next > > > > > > time. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > Jason Brown had nothing to do with ID especially since ID was not > > thought up > > > > > yet as a new lie for Creationism. Now more to the point of the case if and > > > > > when the ID people come up with an actual scientific theory it can be > > > > > considered as being taught in classrooms, but they do not even claim they > > > > > have that. They have nothing to teach not a thing is was all a scam > > and now > > > > > they are looking for their next scam and next group of marks to pull > > it on. > > > > > Try not and be among the marks this time for these conmen in labcoats they > > > > > are trying to sell you snake oil. > > > > > > I hope that the people in the ID movement do a better job during the next > > > > court case. It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the > > > > children will realize that ID makes more sense than evolution so they will > > > > spend millions to keep any school systems from teaching ID. If they were > > > > really sure that evolution would win the competition--they would not be > > > > concerned if it was taught in the public schools. > > > > > You have said this before, and it is nonsense. We don't want ID > > > taught in our schools for two reasons: > > > > > 1) It is religion, not science. > > > 2) It is not true. > > > > > Do you want your children taught that Thor uses his mighty hammer to > > > make the thunder? Why not? Is it because you are afraid that > > > children will realize that "Thor's hammer makes more sense than > > > meteorology"? Of course not - you don't want your children taught > > > about Thor for two reasons: > > > > > 1) Norse mythology is a religious belief, not science. > > > 2) Norse mythology is not true. > > > > > - Bob T. > > > > I understand your point. > > Thanks. By the way, unlike some of the other atheists discussing > things with you, I respect the way you debate. I do not think you are > a "troll", or that you are a liar. I do think you are wrong about > many things, but I think you are sincere in your beliefs and, at least > to some extent, willing to learn from others' opinions. > > - Bob T. Bob, Thanks--I am learning. Jason Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071037190001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <f5tl6k$535$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <1182914771.873163.36550@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >>> Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim >> >>> mosque in >> >>> the world? >> >> Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why >> >> does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, >> >> icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the >> >> heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which >> >> is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do >> >> Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that >> >> Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and >> >> therefore on Monday? >> >> >> >> Answer the damn questions, Jason. >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research >> > regarding >> > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. >> > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You >> > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the >> > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. I suggest >> > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states >> > that >> > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. >> >> And yet your bible clearly says he would rise after THREE days. >> >> Where's the 3rd day, Jason? Do you now believe wikipedia over your own >> bible? > > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the time aspects > than we know today since they were witnesses. > Jason What time aspects Jason? Three days and three nights is the same today as it was two thousand years ago. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt >> >Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >Silberstein >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio >> >> >> >wanted >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >> >> > >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >> >> > >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. >> >> >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. >> > >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your >> >point. >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the >> >next >> >time. >> >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to >> promote Christianity? > > Matt, > Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could arrange > to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of religion. > They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they will > never succeed. > Jason They will never succeed because ID contains no science. Religion abounds in ID and creation science for one important reason, it is there! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote in message news:468221f4$0$12247$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > > "Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1182926144.148395.258680@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com... >>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>> <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >>> >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like this >>> >one: >>> >>> >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? >> >> The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have >> the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell >> young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them >> that Santa Claus is watching them either >> >> Martin > > > And you know this how? Have you died and not been able to go there? Or > perhaps it is like most of the world belives and you just come back for a > new life. Who is to say it is not science for science does not speak to > matters of the afterlife, and unless you have died and come back, how do > you know what happens afterwards. It is things like this that hurt the > case of science, for it should speak only to it's own forts and leave the > rest to others better qualified. He knows this because it is written in the bible and the bible has proven to be less than trustworthy when relating events. Science doesn't say one whit about the afterlife, this is just common sense and reason and the knowledge of the Holey Babble. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote in message news:4682226e$0$8945$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > > "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:1182930709.368584.64290@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com... >> On Jun 27, 2:49 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> In article <1182926144.148395.258...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, >>> Martin >>> >>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >>> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>> > > <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >>> >>> > > >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like >>> > > >this one: >>> >>> > > >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? >>> >>> > The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have >>> > the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell >>> > young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them >>> > that Santa Claus is watching them either >> >>> I have never an attended a funeral for an atheist. Perhaps the person in >>> charge of the funeral would say something like: >>> >>> "He was a wonderful person. In about 100 years, his body will be nothing >>> but dust and that will be the end of his existence." >> >> Why not? It's true. >> >> Martin > in accord with your belief system it is, but not for others who do not > hold to your point of view. Why don't you dig up a few 100 year old bodies and let us know how they look. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote in message news:46821fb2$0$4655$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > > "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:1182929960.497089.76860@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> On Jun 27, 2:10 pm, "Christopher Morris" <Drac...@roadrunner.com> >> wrote: >>> "Martin" <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> >>> news:1182923304.937231.243630@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> >>> > On Jun 27, 8:02 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> >> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDin...@comcast.com>, John >>> >> Popelish >>> >>> >> <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: >>> >> > Jason wrote: >>> >>> >> > > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing >>> >> > > that >>> >> > > the >>> >> > > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >>> >> > > grandmother was >>> >> > > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >>> >>> >> > It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >>> >> > with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >>> >> > children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >>> >> > be adults with poorly developed minds. >>> >>> >> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the >>> >> child >>> >> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the >>> >> casket >>> >> that was buried in the dirt. >>> >>> > Children can accept the truth. Why can't you? >>> >>> Martin, now you are going beyond the realms of science and into the >>> realms >>> of philosophy and religion, which is something, science is not good at >>> doing. Since we have nothing we can say scientifically on what happens >>> after >>> death, it is not possible for anyone to say. It is the forts of religion >>> and >>> philosophy to ponder that which comes after and to give comfort to those >>> who >>> remain behind. As an atheist you do not believe anything is beyond >>> death, >>> but for the most of the world and throughout history of mankind this has >>> not >>> been the case. Since there is no ways of knowing one ways or another, >>> why >>> would you insist that your thoughts are the final word on the subject? >>> We >>> have all chastised Jason for trying to make science and religion mix it >>> is >>> no more right for you to mix religion and science. >> >> The truth is that grandmother is dead and she isn't coming back. If >> children aren't taught to accept the finality of death then they will >> have that much harder a time dealing with it as adults. >> >> Martin > > > Perhaps Martin she is, but in the end what happens after the point of > death is a mystery and it is not a thing science is qualified to answer. > Tearing someone apart for believeing something outside your belief is as > much a matter of ignorance as forcing relgion into science classes. > Science and Religion both have their forts they are just not the same > ones. Since all religions have a viewpoint of the afterlife and they are all different, someone has to be wrong. We just think all of them are wrong. By the way, are you attempting to use the word 'forte'? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706070154310001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <dMngi.16072$2v1.8743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, > bm1@nonespam.com wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <8di383tk4k8aadt0l1ac85ua22n1mmct4f@4ax.com>, Don Kresch >> > <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: >> > >> >> In alt.atheism On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:02:36 -0700, Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) let us all know that: >> >> >> >>> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John >> >>> Popelish >> >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Jason wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >> > grandmother was >> >>>>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >>>> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >>>> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >>>> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >>>> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >>> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the >> >>> child >> >>> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the >> >>> casket >> >>> that was buried in the dirt. >> >> It's better to have the truth than a comfortable lie, don't >> >> you agree? Comfortable lies come back to bite you later in life. >> >> >> >> >> >> Don >> >> --- >> >> aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde >> >> Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. >> >> >> >> "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" >> >> Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" >> > >> > Christians do not consider it a lie. >> > >> > >> And yet, Jason, you want to usurp my rights and my childrens' rights to >> a secular education. > > Don't worry--as of now--the evolutionists are winning all of the court > cases. They don't want any competition. The 'evolutionists' have won because they are right. In the weeks I have dealt with you, you have been unable to tell any of us the science involved in creation science or ID and yet you continue to return to the court cases. You need to learn what is in the court cases if you want to continue to use them as an example. By the way, you have never defined for us your use of the word 'evolutionists'. Care to give that a try now, since you continue to use the term? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071901100001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <rpf3831ig2pl2ta224kn2bnn5lm9a92msp@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:41:18 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071741180001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <MbydnUGQM6MSMBzbnZ2dnUVZ_vyunZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish >> ><jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John >> >> > Popelish >> >> > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her > grandmother was >> >> >>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> >> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >> >> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >> >> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >> >> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >> > >> >> > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine >> >> >> >> Have to? Or have what happen? >> >> >> >> > after telling the child >> >> > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the > casket >> >> > that was buried in the dirt. >> >> >> >> I can only assume that you are the child you are talking >> >> about. Would you lose your mind and die of grief if someone >> >> told you the truth about death? >> >> >> >> Life involves sorrow and happiness, pleasure and pain. >> >> Making up lies to minimize the sorrow and pain also >> >> diminishes the sweetness of their opposites. >> > >> >No--I was not the child--all my family members were Christians. >> > >> So you've never considered the possibility that the story you are >> telling is completely wrong and harmful in some ways. > > I have attended funerals and Christian preachers usually point out to the > relatives that the dead relative is in heaven. The preachers say it > because they believe it. I also believe that my parents and my sister are > in heaven and I am looking forward to seeing them when I make it to > heaven. > Jason You will be disappointed but you will never know it. Yes, I have been to many Christian funerals where the end result of the service is not the honoring of the deceased and his or her family, but the "saving" of a soul. What a crock of crap. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <BUzgi.2268$K9.580@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2706071037190001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <f5tl6k$535$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > In article <1182914771.873163.36550@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > >> > Martin > >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim > >> >>> mosque in > >> >>> the world? > >> >> Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why > >> >> does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, > >> >> icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the > >> >> heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which > >> >> is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do > >> >> Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that > >> >> Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and > >> >> therefore on Monday? > >> >> > >> >> Answer the damn questions, Jason. > >> >> > >> >> Martin > >> > > >> > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research > >> > regarding > >> > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. > >> > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You > >> > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the > >> > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. I suggest > >> > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states > >> > that > >> > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. > >> > >> And yet your bible clearly says he would rise after THREE days. > >> > >> Where's the 3rd day, Jason? Do you now believe wikipedia over your own > >> bible? > > > > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the time aspects > > than we know today since they were witnesses. > > Jason > > What time aspects Jason? Three days and three nights is the same today as it > was two thousand years ago. Our days end at 12 midnight. Are you 100% sure that was the way is was in the first century? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706070217470001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182927532.893482.19910@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 9:53 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <erf383hnaoudjn7p9mi00r176v0s3jt...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > >> > <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:00:54 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > <Jason-2606071800540...@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> > > >In article <94d3831grleibf822h2qbv62bcl55gj...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> > > ><l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:16:46 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> > > >> <Jason-2606071316460...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> > > >> >In article >> > > >> ><1182887737.836228.164...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> > > >> >gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> On 26 Jun., 02:57, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> >> > In article >> > >> > <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin >> >> > > >> >> > snip >> > >> > > >> >> > Martin, >> > > >> >> > I recall learning that Easter Sunday was derived from the >> > tradition that >> > > >> >> > Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Google "Easter Sunday" to >> > > >> >> > find >> > > >out the >> > > >> >> > reason it is called Easter Sunday and not Easter Monday. >> > > >> >> > Jason- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > > >> >> And, according to your "logic", Christians must be pagans, >> > > >> >> since the >> > > >> >> word "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan goddess. >> > >> > > >> >This is from Wikipedia: >> > >> > > >> >Easter, the Sunday of the Resurrection, Pascha, or Resurrection > Day, is >> > > >> >the most important religious feast of the Christian liturgical >> > > >> >year, >> > > >> >observed at some point between late March and late April each > year (early >> > > >> >April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle > of the >> > > >> >moon. It celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, which Christians > believe >> > > >> >occurred on the third day of his death by crucifixion some time >> > > >> >in the >> > > >> >period AD 27 to 33. Easter also refers to the season of the > church year, >> > > >> >called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter > Season >> > > >> >lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but >> > > >> >now >> > > >> >officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first > week of the >> > > >> >Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. >> > >> > > >> >Today many families celebrate Easter in a completely secular way, >> > > >> >as a >> > > >> >non-religious holiday. >> > >> > > >> But the _name_ was still adopted from a secular fertility >> > > >> festival. >> > >> > > >Have you noticed that there are no more posts from people trying to >> > > >convince me that Jesus rose from the dead on Monday? >> > >> > > That was completely off the way. >> > >> > > Yes, the Bible itself says that Jesus did not stay dead for three >> > > days. >> > > So, tell me, what did Jesus predict? >> > >> > He stated lots of things--he did say that he would rise from the dead. >> > Provide a verse--if you are referring to a certain thing that he >> > stated. >> >> Either you are completely dishonest or you have no memory of what >> you've read. >> >> > In article <1182816528.662652.63...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > First look at Mark: >> >> > > Mark 8:31: "And He [Jesus] began to teach them that the Son of Man >> > > must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief >> > > priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." >> >> > > Mark 9:31: "For He taught His disciples and said to them, `The Son of >> > > Man is being delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him. >> > > And after He is killed, He will rise the third day.' " >> >> > > So if Jesus was buried on "Good" Friday then there is no way he could >> > > have risen on Sunday. And it was supposedly Friday, the day before >> > > the Sabbath according to John and Luke: >> >> > > John 19:31. "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the >> > > bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath [for that >> > > Sabbath >> > > was a high day). >> >> > > Luke 23:56. The women ".. prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they >> > > rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment " >> >> > > Some have argued that a "day" meant 12 hours but Matthew makes it >> > > clear that "three days" includes "three nights": >> >> > > Matthew 12:40, "three days and three nights in the heart of the >> > > earth." >> >> Martin > > You stated in your last post that you did not believe in Jesus--so why is > this issue important to you? > > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the times of days > since they were witnesses. They must have been fairly sure that it was > three days--otherwise they would have worshipped on Monday instead of on > Sunday. Three days and three nights, that's what your holy book states. Now your book could be wrong but I'm sure as a creationist you don't want to admit that. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072148510001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182911724.230962.192450@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 1:47 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <5eclv9F38b9m...@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> > <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > >news:Jason-2506072238410001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > > In article <1182828376.590242.59...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > Martin >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> On Jun 26, 9:12 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > >> > In article <yAZfi.7126$n9.6...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > > >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > > >> > >news:Jason-2406071818230001@66-52-22-6.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > >> > > > In article >> > > >> > > > > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > >> In article >> > > >> > > >> <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > > >> > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > >> > I want to make it legal for teachers >> > > >> > > >> > to teach ID >> > >> > > >> > > >> But it is legal to do that... >> > >> > > >> > > >> ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> > >> > > >> > > >> So what's your problem? >> > >> > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology classes. >> > > >> > > > Of >> > > >> > > > course, >> > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> > >> > > >> > > Tell me Jason, just how would you propose teaching ID as >> > > >> > > science? >> > > > Please be >> > > >> > > specific in your reply. >> > >> > > >> > Teachers and students would use the textbook "Of Pandas and >> > > >> > People" >> > > >> > which >> > > >> > has no Biblical content. >> > >> > > >> It also has no scientific content. And you can't argue that it >> > > >> does >> > > >> because you've never seen it. >> >> > > > That's true--just a book review. >> > >> > > How can you advocate something you haven't even bothered to read? >> > >> > Since I know the basics of creation... >> >> So you, Jason, consider yourself qualified to teach a science class? >> That's exactly the kind of travesty we want to avoid. >> >> Martin > > Martin, > No--I don't have a degree in science. A graduate of the ICR college could > teach a science class. Many of their students are high school biology and > chemistry teachers. The ICR college only offers one degree--Master's > Degree. I once saw the required classes--most were science classes. They > offer summer classes so the high school science teachers can keep their > jobs. > Jason The ICR offers college 'degrees' because of a loop hole in CA law. It's your state. learn about it. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072142450001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182911634.201159.300140@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 1:43 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <EU7gi.7357$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > >news:Jason-2506072227160001@66-52-22-54.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > > In article >> > > > <DipthotDipthot-1DEF3B.19130325062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> In article >> > > >> <Jason-2506071217400...@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >> > > >> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the > people that >> > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the public >> > > >> > schools >> > >> > > >> Scientific truth is not a popularity contest. >> > >> > > >> The masses, on average, are not too bright. Do you want that kind >> > > >> of >> > > >> mediocre thinking foisted on our young? >> > >> > > >> Of course you do. And that's called thought control. >> > >> > > > I would much prefer the citizens of Ohio electing politicians that > will do >> > > > what the citizens of Ohio want them to do related to education > policy than >> > > > to have a group of unelected evolutionists deciding education >> > > > policy. >> > > > jason >> > >> > > Still prefer to remain scientifically illiterate, I see. >> > >> > If we trust them to elect members of Congress and serve on juries--we >> > should trust them to elect the members of school boards and the state >> > secratary of education. None of the these things matter--since the >> > evolutionists will take the states to court if those elected >> > representatives attempted to authorize the teaching of ID. In other >> > words, >> > unelected evolutionists are deciding school curriculum instead the >> > politicians that represent the interests of the people that elected >> > them. >> >> Having scientists decide what should be taught in science class is >> entirely appropriate, Jason. I've never been in a situation where I >> couldn't teach whatever I wanted in a science class, not even in >> Catholic Philippines. >> >> Martin > > Martin, > That's easy for you but imagine what it must be like for Science professor > that is an advocate of Creation Science. Such a professor is NOT allowed > to teach whatever he wanted in a science class. > Jason He sure isn't! There is no science in creation science. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606072331270001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1182920697.691354.172560@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 26 Jun., 22:22, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182888250.489184.198...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > >> > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> > > > >news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > > > > > In article >> > > > > > <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> > Martin >> > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > > > > >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > >> > In article >> > > > > >> > <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c= >> om>, >> > > > > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > > > >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > In article >> > >> > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > In article >> > > > > >> > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse= >> .net>, >> > > > > >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> > > > > >> > > > > > to teach ID >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> > >> > > > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology >> > > > > >> > > > classes= >> . Of >> > > > > >> > > > course, >> > > > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same classes. >> > >> > > > > >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> > (self-admitted) >> > > > > >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why >> > > > > >> > > should >> > the US >> > > > > >> > > give up religious freedom? >> > >> > > > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of the >> > people that >> > > > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the >> > > > > >> > public >> > schools. >> > > > > >> > I >> > > > > >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects >> > > > > >> > should >> > be taught >> > > > > >> > in >> > > > > >> > the public schools. >> > >> > > > > >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the Earth >> > > > > >> w= >> as >> > > > > >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd >> > > > > >> quit >> > > > > >> outright. Their loss. >> > >> > > > > >> Martin >> > >> > > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established >> > > > > > curriculum = >> in a >> > > > > > state school should quit. >> > >> > > > > You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate >> > > > > what >> > science >> > > > > is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a >> > > > > scientific >> > > > > illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the science >> > curriculum? >> > >> > > > No-- >> > >> > > In that case what you say below must be wrong. >> > >> > > >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> > > > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want both >> > > > ID= >> and >> > > > evolution to be taught.- >> > >> > > And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not >> > > determine the science curriculum. >> > >> > I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. I believe that >> > elected representatives should determine education policy--not >> > unelected >> > evolutionists. Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be >> > taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID >> > makes >> > more sense than evolution.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> > >> > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> Biologists are experts in science. The majority of the voters in Ohio >> are not, and you just agreed that people ignorant of science should >> not >> determine the science curriculum. > > I trust the elected members of school boards more than I trust unelected > evolutionists. They have an agenda which is to prevent a competing theory > from being taught. What unelected 'evolutionists'? Either explain your terminology or quit using it. You don't think a creationist school board has an agenda?? Have mercy! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071907430001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <19g383hg02qkrfaf93aq8innicj9fv3atf@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:37:00 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2606071837000001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >In article <l5f383tuep6o065aglqv5ce6vmbqnlup34@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:38:08 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> <Jason-2606071738080001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >In article <ama383tt5lqob7ei5h7hgk4apsu7k62cj9@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:25:10 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> >> <Jason-2606071125110001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >> >In article <5eclilF37sb6pU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> >> >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> Evolution is about the change in life over time. You have been >> >> >> corrected >> >> >> on that about a thousand times, yet still seem incapable of >> >> >> learning >> >> >> such a simple fact. >> >> > >> >> >I made the evolution comment in response to this comment: >> >> > >> >> >> >> Listen all ID is "God did it". So, when the kids come from > home from >> >> >> >> school, all the parents have to do is say that and it's taken > care of. >> >> >> >> There's no need for an entire course on the subject. >> >> > >> >> >One the results of not teaching ID in the public schools is the rapid >> >> >growth of the home schooling movement. In addition, many large >> >> >churches >> >> >has opened "Christian Schools". I once visited a large church that I >> >> >don't >> >> >attend. I noticed about 30 little children playing. I was told that >> >> >they >> >> >recently started a Christian school since the parents wanted the >> >> >children >> >> >to learn about God. Many Christian parents and rich parents have now >> >> >given up on the public schools. Evolutionists are one of the reasons. >> >> >One >> >> >of reasons they do not want ID to be taught is because they are >> >> >afraid >> >> >that children would realize that it makes more sense than evolution. >> >> >Of >> >> >course, no poster in this newsgroup would admit that was one of the >> >> >reasons. >> >> >> >> In the South, many wealthy and middle class people abandoned the >> >> public >> >> schools because they didn't want their children to have to go to >> >> school >> >> with black children. Then they voted against adequate taxes to fund >> >> the >> >> public schools they abandoned. I can see how you equate the enemies of >> >> science with the racists. >> > >> >I have not mentioned race related to this issue. >> >> So? The anti-science creationists that you hang with tend to be more >> racist than those who accept science. > > I don't know--perhaps in some of the states in the deep south. I can state right now that there are very few, if any, religious groups with less scientific knowledge than a Southern Baptist. I can also state that there are few, if any, groups that are more bigoted than same. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071902110001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <q9jgi.4742$s8.870@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2606071803010001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <yrigi.132$ca.117@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2606071725240001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <gda383p79807j37f1ju8ibliueqh6kqp1e@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> >> > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:08:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> >> <Jason-2606071108440001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >> >In article <jp3283pji9203fg6293kfgmbpvrq443r0u@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >> >Silberstein >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:04:24 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> >> <Jason-2506071804250001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >No--but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in >> >> >> >> >deciding >> >> >> >> >school curriculum. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And they do, in every state even. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >In this case over 60% of those people want both ID and >> >> >> >> >evolution to be taught. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I'll bite: what would the ID curriculum consist of? I guess that >> >> >> >> you >> >> >> >> have not actually followed the Ohio situation. The state did >> >> >> >> decide >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> teach ID and then ran into a serious problem: there is nothing >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> teach. Nothing . The Discovery Institute, the major promoters >> >> >> >> of >> >> >> >> ID, >> >> >> >> have said that they never meant for anyone to actually teach ID >> >> >> >> (even >> >> >> >> though they called for teaching ID for years), they want schools >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> "teach the controversy". It is an amusing idea: they have no >> >> >> >> content >> >> >> >> to present, but they want the schools to teach a controversy >> >> >> >> over >> >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> (non-existent) content. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> So, please, tell me what would actually get taught in an >> >> >> >> Intelligent >> >> >> >> Design course. I will help you get started: tell us what >> >> >> >> "Intelligent" >> >> >> >> means, tell us what "Design" means, tell us how to detect >> >> >> >> intelligence >> >> >> >> and design, tell us who the designers were, tell us when the >> >> >> >> designers >> >> >> >> acted, tell us what the designers did, tell us what tools the >> >> >> >> designers used, tell us something about the designers goals. >> >> >> >> That >> >> >> >> is, >> >> >> >> answer any of those questions or, at the very least, give us a >> >> >> >> clue >> >> >> >> on how someone would go about learning the answers to those >> >> >> >> questions. >> >> >> >> I am sorry, Jason, but there is no ID to teach. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >The teachers would use a textbook entitled, "Of Pandas and People" >> >> >> >which >> >> >> >has no Biblical content. Visit the Discovery Institute and read >> >> >> >the >> >> >> >articles related to teaching ID in the public schools. If you want >> >> >> >to >> >> >> >learn about the basics of ID and creation science--read this book: >> >> >> >"Origins: Creation or Evolution" by R.B. Bliss >> >> >> > >> >> >> Jason, you keep ignoring that Pandas does not have a shred of >> >> >> scientific >> >> >> content to support ID/Creationism and that it was a Creationist >> >> >> textbook >> >> >> first. >> >> > >> >> > They advertise the Pandas book in the ICR newsletter. >> >> >> >> SO WHAT??? Did you refute his statement? No. >> > >> > I have stated in other posts that I have not read the Pandas book--only >> > the review. >> >> Then if you are going to stand here and defend the book I suggest you >> read >> it. > > I already know the basics of creation science and ID. "Goddidit" isn't hard to learn. It's providing evidence for it that is hard. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2606071741180001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <MbydnUGQM6MSMBzbnZ2dnUVZ_vyunZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John >> > Popelish >> > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that >> >>> the >> >>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >> >>> grandmother was >> >>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> > >> > You may have to give the child a dose of morphine >> >> Have to? Or have what happen? >> >> > after telling the child >> > that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the >> > casket >> > that was buried in the dirt. >> >> I can only assume that you are the child you are talking >> about. Would you lose your mind and die of grief if someone >> told you the truth about death? >> >> Life involves sorrow and happiness, pleasure and pain. >> Making up lies to minimize the sorrow and pain also >> diminishes the sweetness of their opposites. > > No--I was not the child--all my family members were Christians. All of my family members are were or still are Christians, but that didn't bother me. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <NVzgi.2269$K9.1264@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) in > >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >Silberstein > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >> >Silberstein > >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , > >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com > >> >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> [snip] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio > >> >> >> >wanted > >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > >> >> > > >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > >> >> > > >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. > >> >> > >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with > >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the > >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled > >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > >> > > >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your > >> >point. > >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the > >> >next > >> >time. > >> > >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your > >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source > >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its > >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to > >> promote Christianity? > > > > Matt, > > Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could arrange > > to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of religion. > > They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they will > > never succeed. > > Jason > > They will never succeed because ID contains no science. Religion abounds in > ID and creation science for one important reason, it is there! I agree that religion abounds in ID and creation science. However, if God, Jesus and scriptures are NEVER mentioned in the text book or curriculum guide--it seems to me that a judge could not call it religion. For example, some people believe that astronauts from some other planet came to this planet millions of years ago and left behind dozens of people; some plants and some animals. Is that idea based on religion? The answer is no. In the last court case, the IDers did a terrible job since lawyers representing evolutionists found all sorts of evidence indicating that religion was involved. Jason Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071352480001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <BUzgi.2268$K9.580@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706071037190001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <f5tl6k$535$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> > In article <1182914771.873163.36550@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim >> >> >>> mosque in >> >> >>> the world? >> >> >> Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why >> >> >> does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, >> >> >> icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the >> >> >> heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance >> >> >> which >> >> >> is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why >> >> >> do >> >> >> Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed >> >> >> that >> >> >> Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and >> >> >> therefore on Monday? >> >> >> >> >> >> Answer the damn questions, Jason. >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research >> >> > regarding >> >> > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. >> >> > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. >> >> > You >> >> > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the >> >> > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. I >> >> > suggest >> >> > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states >> >> > that >> >> > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. >> >> >> >> And yet your bible clearly says he would rise after THREE days. >> >> >> >> Where's the 3rd day, Jason? Do you now believe wikipedia over your own >> >> bible? >> > >> > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the time >> > aspects >> > than we know today since they were witnesses. >> > Jason >> >> What time aspects Jason? Three days and three nights is the same today as >> it >> was two thousand years ago. > > Our days end at 12 midnight. Are you 100% sure that was the way is was in > the first century? Doesn't make any difference Jason, regardless of when it started and stopped, three days and three nights had to pass. Or the bible could be wrong :-). The string is three days and nights long regardless of how it is laid. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <kYzgi.2271$K9.1992@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote in message > news:468221f4$0$12247$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > > > > "Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1182926144.148395.258680@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com... > >>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>> <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >> > >>> >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like this > >>> >one: > >>> > >>> >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? > >> > >> The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have > >> the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell > >> young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them > >> that Santa Claus is watching them either > >> > >> Martin > > > > > > And you know this how? Have you died and not been able to go there? Or > > perhaps it is like most of the world belives and you just come back for a > > new life. Who is to say it is not science for science does not speak to > > matters of the afterlife, and unless you have died and come back, how do > > you know what happens afterwards. It is things like this that hurt the > > case of science, for it should speak only to it's own forts and leave the > > rest to others better qualified. > > He knows this because it is written in the bible and the bible has proven to > be less than trustworthy when relating events. Science doesn't say one whit > about the afterlife, this is just common sense and reason and the knowledge > of the Holey Babble. I have read at least one book related to people that died for a short period of time (such as during surgery). The author interviewed dozens of those people and many of them told very similar stories. They saw a tunnel with a bright light at the end of it. They traveled to the light and ended up in heaven. Some of them told stories about relatives and friends that they met in heaven. Others told about meeting Jesus or God. Some told about seeing the river of life and huge trees. One lady actully made paintings of the grass and flowers that were similar to grass and flowers on the earth but the colors were MUCH brighter. I believed the testimonies of those people but I already know that atheists will NOT believe the testimonies of those people. Jason Quote
Guest Don Kresch Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In alt.atheism On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:52:48 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) let us all know that: >In article <BUzgi.2268$K9.580@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" ><mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706071037190001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <f5tl6k$535$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> > In article <1182914771.873163.36550@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim >> >> >>> mosque in >> >> >>> the world? >> >> >> Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why >> >> >> does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, >> >> >> icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the >> >> >> heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which >> >> >> is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do >> >> >> Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that >> >> >> Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and >> >> >> therefore on Monday? >> >> >> >> >> >> Answer the damn questions, Jason. >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research >> >> > regarding >> >> > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. >> >> > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You >> >> > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the >> >> > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. I suggest >> >> > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states >> >> > that >> >> > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. >> >> >> >> And yet your bible clearly says he would rise after THREE days. >> >> >> >> Where's the 3rd day, Jason? Do you now believe wikipedia over your own >> >> bible? >> > >> > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the time aspects >> > than we know today since they were witnesses. >> > Jason >> >> What time aspects Jason? Three days and three nights is the same today as it >> was two thousand years ago. > >Our days end at 12 midnight. Are you 100% sure that was the way is was in >the first century? > Sundown-sundown. That still doesn't make three days and three nights. Don --- aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071403510001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <NVzgi.2269$K9.1264@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt >> > Silberstein >> > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >Silberstein >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >> >Silberstein >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in >> >> >> >> >Ohio >> >> >> >> >wanted >> >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >> >> >> > >> >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >> >> >> > >> >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the >> >> >> curriculum. >> >> >> >> >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much >> >> >> with >> >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the >> >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court >> >> >> ruled >> >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. >> >> > >> >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your >> >> >point. >> >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had >> >> >no >> >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the >> >> >next >> >> >time. >> >> >> >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your >> >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source >> >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its >> >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to >> >> promote Christianity? >> > >> > Matt, >> > Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could >> > arrange >> > to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of >> > religion. >> > They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they >> > will >> > never succeed. >> > Jason >> >> They will never succeed because ID contains no science. Religion abounds >> in >> ID and creation science for one important reason, it is there! > > I agree that religion abounds in ID and creation science. However, if God, > Jesus and scriptures are NEVER mentioned in the text book or curriculum > guide--it seems to me that a judge could not call it religion. For > example, some people believe that astronauts from some other planet came > to this planet millions of years ago and left behind dozens of people; > some plants and some animals. Is that idea based on religion? The answer > is no. In the last court case, the IDers did a terrible job since lawyers > representing evolutionists found all sorts of evidence indicating that > religion was involved. > Jason You don't have to specifically name your religious figure in order to find that religion is involved. When the descriptions fit the bible then it will be assumed that it is the bible. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 In article <dZzgi.2272$K9.1791@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote in message > news:4682226e$0$8945$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > > > > "Martin" <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1182930709.368584.64290@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > >> On Jun 27, 2:49 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >>> In article <1182926144.148395.258...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > >>> > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>> > > <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >>> > >>> > > >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like > >>> > > >this one: > >>> > >>> > > >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? > >>> > >>> > The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have > >>> > the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell > >>> > young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them > >>> > that Santa Claus is watching them either > >> > >>> I have never an attended a funeral for an atheist. Perhaps the person in > >>> charge of the funeral would say something like: > >>> > >>> "He was a wonderful person. In about 100 years, his body will be nothing > >>> but dust and that will be the end of his existence." > >> > >> Why not? It's true. > >> > >> Martin > > in accord with your belief system it is, but not for others who do not > > hold to your point of view. > > Why don't you dig up a few 100 year old bodies and let us know how they > look. I buried a dead bird when I was a child. I placed some stones over the grave. About a month later, I dug up the bird and only found a bunch of ants and a couple of bones. Jason Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071411320001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <kYzgi.2271$K9.1992@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote in message >> news:468221f4$0$12247$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >> > >> > "Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> > news:1182926144.148395.258680@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com... >> >>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >>> <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >> >>> >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like >> >>> >this >> >>> >one: >> >>> >> >>> >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in heaven? >> >> >> >> The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to have >> >> the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't tell >> >> young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them >> >> that Santa Claus is watching them either >> >> >> >> Martin >> > >> > >> > And you know this how? Have you died and not been able to go there? Or >> > perhaps it is like most of the world belives and you just come back for >> > a >> > new life. Who is to say it is not science for science does not speak to >> > matters of the afterlife, and unless you have died and come back, how >> > do >> > you know what happens afterwards. It is things like this that hurt the >> > case of science, for it should speak only to it's own forts and leave >> > the >> > rest to others better qualified. >> >> He knows this because it is written in the bible and the bible has proven >> to >> be less than trustworthy when relating events. Science doesn't say one >> whit >> about the afterlife, this is just common sense and reason and the >> knowledge >> of the Holey Babble. > > I have read at least one book related to people that died for a short > period of time (such as during surgery). The author interviewed dozens of > those people and many of them told very similar stories. They saw a tunnel > with a bright light at the end of it. They traveled to the light and ended > up in heaven. Some of them told stories about relatives and friends that > they met in heaven. Others told about meeting Jesus or God. Some told > about seeing the river of life and huge trees. One lady actully made > paintings of the grass and flowers that were similar to grass and flowers > on the earth but the colors were MUCH brighter. I believed the testimonies > of those people but I already know that atheists will NOT believe the > testimonies of those people. > Jason Jason, I told you many weeks ago that near death experiences(NDE's) are not uncommon, however, all NDE's occur with the person who experienced the NDE seeing what his or her religion says they will see. A Hindu reported that he saw the next life that he was to have. You fall in the same trap that all US Christians fall into, that Christianity is the only religion and that the US is the only country. Quote
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