Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:42:25 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) in >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> (Jason) in >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >> >> > >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >> >> > >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. >> >> >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. >> > >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next >> >time. >> >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to >> promote Christianity? > >Matt, >Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could arrange >to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of religion. >They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they will >never succeed. >Jason > I still cannot tell if you want them to actually engage in science or try to be more subtle in telling lies. Quote
Guest Doug Meredith Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >I have read at least one book related to people that died for a short >period of time (such as during surgery). The author interviewed dozens of >those people and many of them told very similar stories. They saw a tunnel >with a bright light at the end of it. They traveled to the light and ended >up in heaven. Some of them told stories about relatives and friends that >they met in heaven. Others told about meeting Jesus or God. Some told >about seeing the river of life and huge trees. One lady actully made >paintings of the grass and flowers that were similar to grass and flowers >on the earth but the colors were MUCH brighter. I believed the testimonies >of those people but I already know that atheists will NOT believe the >testimonies of those people. >Jason > So what happened, God thought they were going to die, brought them to heaven and realized he was wrong? Doug Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071729440001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <4dp583lqrr9fhgchqv0633889v7s6mt8ni@4ax.com>, Michael Gray > <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:41:07 -0000, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> - Refer: <1182930067.182358.221560@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> >> >On Jun 27, 2:25 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the >> >> children will realize that ID makes more sense >> > >> >You don't seriously believe that, Jason. If you were then you would >> >be calling every qualified scientist alive today a liar. >> >> He has done that very thing on several occasions. >> >> -- > > Yes, I believe that evolutionists are afraid that the children will > realize that ID makes more sense than evolution. Otherwise, they would not > millions of dollars keeping ID from being taught in the public school > system. You're an idiot, Jason. The science part of the answer has been given to you many times, yet you refuse to address it. As to spending millions of dollars, only your tax dollars are being spent. The vast majority of legal work to defend science is usually pro bono work by such noted firms as Skadden Arps. So when idiots like you insist on getting your religion taught in a science classroom the only ones paying are the taxpayers and since most of them believe as you do, I say, let the good times roll on! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071727150001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <7rAgi.2306$K9.485@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706071403510001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <NVzgi.2269$K9.1264@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> > Silberstein >> >> > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >> >Silberstein >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >> >> >Silberstein >> >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in >> >> >> >> >> >Ohio >> >> >> >> >> >wanted >> >> >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the >> >> >> >> curriculum. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> >> >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much >> >> >> >> with >> >> >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court >> >> >> >> ruled >> >> >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand >> >> >> >your >> >> >> >point. >> >> >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they >> >> >> >had >> >> >> >no >> >> >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job >> >> >> >the >> >> >> >next >> >> >> >time. >> >> >> >> >> >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your >> >> >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source >> >> >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its >> >> >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to >> >> >> promote Christianity? >> >> > >> >> > Matt, >> >> > Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could >> >> > arrange >> >> > to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of >> >> > religion. >> >> > They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they >> >> > will >> >> > never succeed. >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> They will never succeed because ID contains no science. Religion >> >> abounds >> >> in >> >> ID and creation science for one important reason, it is there! >> > >> > I agree that religion abounds in ID and creation science. However, if >> > God, >> > Jesus and scriptures are NEVER mentioned in the text book or curriculum >> > guide--it seems to me that a judge could not call it religion. For >> > example, some people believe that astronauts from some other planet >> > came >> > to this planet millions of years ago and left behind dozens of people; >> > some plants and some animals. Is that idea based on religion? The >> > answer >> > is no. In the last court case, the IDers did a terrible job since >> > lawyers >> > representing evolutionists found all sorts of evidence indicating that >> > religion was involved. >> > Jason >> >> You don't have to specifically name your religious figure in order to >> find >> that religion is involved. When the descriptions fit the bible then it >> will >> be assumed that it is the bible. > > Judges are to suppose to base their rulings on evidence--not assumptions. They do, Jason, the evidence points to religion. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:11:13 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606072111140001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182915204.792299.46850@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin ><phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 27, 3:10 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > I continue to believe that the citizens of a state should have a voice in >> > deciding education policy. That is far better than unelected evolutionists >> > deciding education policy by taking states to court if they disagree with >> > how states are deciding education policy. >> >> You're taking a stand against academic freedom. >> >> academic freedom >> -noun 1. freedom of a teacher to discuss or investigate any >> controversial social, economic, or political problems without >> interference or penalty from officials, organized groups, etc. >> 2=2E freedom of a student to explore any field or hold any belief >> without interference from the teacher. >> Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, =A9 Random House, Inc. >> 2006. >> >> academic freedom >> n=2E Liberty to teach, pursue, and discuss knowledge without >> restriction or interference, as by school or public officials. >> The American Heritage=AE Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth >> Edition >> Copyright =A9 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company. >> Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. >> >> academic freedom >> noun >> the freedom of teachers and students to express their ideas in school >> without religious or political or institutional restrictions >> WordNet=AE 3.0, =A9 2006 by Princeton University. >> >> academic freedom >> The right of teachers and students to express their ideas in the >> classroom or in writing, free from political, religious, or >> institutional restrictions, even if these ideas are unpopular. >> The American Heritage=AE New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third >> Edition >> Copyright =A9 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company. >> Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. >> >> Martin > >Martin, >In the county that I lived, the members of the school board were elected >by the people that lived in that county. The teachers did not have control >over the schools. The people in that county indirectly controlled the >schools in that county by their votes. It appears to me that evolutionists >want to control the schools. I continue to believe the people that live in >a county or city should have a say (eg votes) in how the schools are run. >Do you agree or disagree? >Jason The 'evolutionists' you attack are people who want real science taught in school. The vast majority of them are Christian. There is no other scientific explanation for the changes in life over time on earth. Learn. Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Jason wrote: (snip) > Yes, a creationist school board and evolutionist both have agendas. I agree. How about taking a stab at summarizing what you thing each of those agendas is about. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:37:51 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606072137520001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <8di383tk4k8aadt0l1ac85ua22n1mmct4f@4ax.com>, Don Kresch ><ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > >> In alt.atheism On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:02:36 -0700, Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) let us all know that: >> >> >In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish >> ><jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> > It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that the >> >> > child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >grandmother was >> >> > lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> >> >> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> > >> >You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the child >> >that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the casket >> >that was buried in the dirt. >> >> It's better to have the truth than a comfortable lie, don't >> you agree? Comfortable lies come back to bite you later in life. >> >> >> Don >> --- >> aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde >> Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. >> >> "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" >> Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" > >Christians do not consider it a lie. > The vast majority of Christians belong to religious bodies who don't agree with you. It's more accurate to say that Christians do consider ID/Creationism to be a lie. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071713420001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <G3Agi.2276$K9.86@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706070154310001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <dMngi.16072$2v1.8743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, >> > bm1@nonespam.com wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> > In article <8di383tk4k8aadt0l1ac85ua22n1mmct4f@4ax.com>, Don Kresch >> >> > <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> In alt.atheism On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:02:36 -0700, Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) let us all know that: >> >> >> >> >> >>> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John >> >> >>> Popelish >> >> >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> Jason wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing >> >> >>>>> that >> >> >>>>> the >> >> >>>>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >> >> > grandmother was >> >> >>>>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> >>>> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >> >>>> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >> >>>> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >> >>>> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >> >>> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> child >> >> >>> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> casket >> >> >>> that was buried in the dirt. >> >> >> It's better to have the truth than a comfortable lie, don't >> >> >> you agree? Comfortable lies come back to bite you later in life. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Don >> >> >> --- >> >> >> aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde >> >> >> Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. >> >> >> >> >> >> "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" >> >> >> Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" >> >> > >> >> > Christians do not consider it a lie. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> And yet, Jason, you want to usurp my rights and my childrens' rights >> >> to >> >> a secular education. >> > >> > Don't worry--as of now--the evolutionists are winning all of the court >> > cases. They don't want any competition. >> >> The 'evolutionists' have won because they are right. In the weeks I have >> dealt with you, you have been unable to tell any of us the science >> involved >> in creation science or ID and yet you continue to return to the court >> cases. >> You need to learn what is in the court cases if you want to continue to >> use >> them as an example. By the way, you have never defined for us your use of >> the word 'evolutionists'. Care to give that a try now, since you continue >> to >> use the term? > > This is where I found the term "evolutionist": > > I found these sentences on page 8 of the Nov/2004 issue of National > Geographic: > > "...[Darwin] spent years classifying baracles. By 1854 he was known as a > barnacle expert--though not yet an evolutionist." > > The science involved related to creation science and ID is related to > fossils and rock strata. Dr. John Baumgardner is a geophysics professor at > the ICR Graduate School. He obtained his Ph.D in geophysics at UCLA. He > served as a staff scientist in the Theoretical Division of Los Alamos > National Laboratory for 20 years. Dr. Baumgardner and Dr. Steve Austin > have done lots of research at the Grand Canyon related to fossils and rock > strata I asked you, Jason, I don't care where you got the term. I want to know in what context you use the term. Do you want me to spell it out for you??? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:27:07 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism gudloos@yahoo.com wrote in <1182943627.114275.286240@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>: >On 27 Jun., 02:48, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:53:44 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote in >> <1182873224.668805.269...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >> >On 26 Jun., 01:46, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> In article <1182812406.148531.4...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> > On 25 Jun., 08:31, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > In article <1182751329.065068.288...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob >> >> >> > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >> >> > > > On Jun 24, 9:31 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > > > In article <1182738013.400195.243...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "= >> >> > Bob >> >> >> > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: >> >> > > > > > On Jun 24, 6:35 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > Here is some information about the Christians in Iran. >> >> >> > > > > > <snip article> >> >> >> > > > > > Iran is an excellent example of what happens when religious nutcases >> >> > > > > > are allowed to rule a country. And you, Jason, clearly wish that >> >> > > > > > America was more like Iran. >> >> >> > > > > > - Bob T. >> >> >> > > > > Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone in the world were Christians. >> >> >> > > > Yes, then the world would be just like Iran - run by superstitious >> >> > > > fools who allow no dissent. How would you like to live under Muslim >> >> > > > religious law, Jason? Well, that's what the world you envision would >> >> > > > be like - we would all have to worry about the Inquisition knocking on >> >> > > > our door at any moment to check on our sex lives. >> >> >> > > > I much prefer to live in America, which is still a land of freedom, >> >> > > > including freedom from religion. >> >> >> > > > - Bob T. >> >> >> > > I also like living in America. The end goal of the Muslims are to take >> >> > > over the world--one country at a time. >> >> >> > It is also the goal of Christians. You said so. >> >> >> There is a BIG difference. If people refuse to become Muslims, the Muslims >> >> chop off thier heads. If people refuse to become Christians, we don't harm >> >> them in any way. Has any Christian ever harmed you or threatened you? >> >> >> > They are presently committing >> >> > > genocide on the people that live in Darfur. >> >> >> > All the Moslems are doing that? Even the ones that are at war with >> >> > each other? Stop being such a fool. >> >> >> > After they take over control >> >> > > of the Sudan, they will use the Sudan as a staging ground to take over >> >> > > surrounding countries. >> >> >> > The Sudan is a Muslem country and has been for many centuries. >> >> >> The Muslims from Middle east are taking over the Sudan. They are either >> >> killing the Black Muslims or forcing them to leave the country. >> >> >The ones doing the killing are nomadic tribesmen in the Sudan. The >> >Blacks are animists and Christians. You are once again exposed as an >> >ignorant liar. >> >> You are confusing two different wars. The war in the south was the >> Moslems of the north against the animists and Christians of the south. >> The war in Darfur is more tribal, but generally everyone involved is >> Moslem. > >This from "On Line Report" > >"Rebel Groups in Darfur > >Although unified in their desire for an independent Darfur, the rebel >groups fighting the Sudanese government have been plagued by deep >internal divisions and power struggles. > >The region's many rebel groups agreed on Jan. 20, 2006 to join forces >under the Alliance of Revolutionary Forces of Western Sudan, however, >several months later, the rebels still were negotiating with the >African Union and the Sudanese government through different leaders >and factions. > >There are two main rebel groups within the alliance. The larger one, >the Sudanese Liberation Army/Movement, represents non-Muslim tribal >Africans and is led by Minni Arcua Minnawi and Abdel Wahed Mohamed el- >Nur." > >As you see the largest group is non Moslem. Interesting. I see differing reports. I assume that this non-Moslem group is not Christian. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 In article <jjk5835ml389gjcsnj4kbkiisposlq1he6@4ax.com>, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > In alt.atheism On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:52:48 -0700, Jason@nospam.com > (Jason) let us all know that: > > >In article <BUzgi.2268$K9.580@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > ><mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-2706071037190001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <f5tl6k$535$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >> > In article <1182914771.873163.36550@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > Martin > >> >> > <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Jun 27, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> Why is there a symbol of a crescent moon on top of every Muslim > >> >> >>> mosque in > >> >> >>> the world? > >> >> >> Why does a halo appear on the head of every saint in pictures? Why > >> >> >> does sun symbolism continue to the present day on robes, banners, > >> >> >> icons, behind the cross in a ray of light, flames coming from the > >> >> >> heart of Jesus, etc.? Who do priests bow and kiss a monstrance which > >> >> >> is a gold statue of the sun on a pedestal during processions? Why do > >> >> >> Christians go to church on Sunday when the old testament claimed that > >> >> >> Jesus would rise after three days, ie three days after Friday and > >> >> >> therefore on Monday? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Answer the damn questions, Jason. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Martin > >> >> > > >> >> > I am not a Catholic so as a result have never done any research > >> >> > regarding > >> >> > Catholics. I don't why artists painted halos on the heads of saints. > >> >> > Perhaps it was part of the culture or a rule established by a Pope. You > >> >> > may want to visit the art department and ask that question to the > >> >> > professor that teaches courses related to the history of art. I suggest > >> >> > that you visit Wikipedia and type "Easter Sunday". It clearly states > >> >> > that > >> >> > Christ rose from the dead on Sunday. > >> >> > >> >> And yet your bible clearly says he would rise after THREE days. > >> >> > >> >> Where's the 3rd day, Jason? Do you now believe wikipedia over your own > >> >> bible? > >> > > >> > The deciples worshipped on Sunday. They knew more about the time aspects > >> > than we know today since they were witnesses. > >> > Jason > >> > >> What time aspects Jason? Three days and three nights is the same today as it > >> was two thousand years ago. > > > >Our days end at 12 midnight. Are you 100% sure that was the way is was in > >the first century? > > > Sundown-sundown. > > That still doesn't make three days and three nights. > > Don > --- > aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde > Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. > > "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" > Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" Does the Bible state that Jesus was in the tomb 72 hours or three days? If Jesus was placed in the tomb prior to sundown on Friday that would be day 1 Saturday would be day 2 and Sunday-after sun-up would be day 3. That would not be 72 hours but as far as the deciples were concerned--it would count as the third day. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071721020001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <qyAgi.2309$K9.871@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706071411320001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <kYzgi.2271$K9.1992@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Christopher Morris" <Draccus@roadrunner.com> wrote in message >> >> news:468221f4$0$12247$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >> >> > >> >> > "Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> >> > news:1182926144.148395.258680@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com... >> >> >>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:14:36 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> >> >>> J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> >> >>> <Jason-2606071314370...@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >> >> >> >> >> >>> >What do atheists tell small children when they ask questions like >> >> >>> >this >> >> >>> >one: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >I really miss Grandma and wish she had not died? Is she in >> >> >>> >heaven? >> >> >> >> >> >> The truth, that Heaven doesn't exist. Children have the right to >> >> >> have >> >> >> the truth told to them and not have lies told to them. I won't >> >> >> tell >> >> >> young children that your god is watching them and I won't tell them >> >> >> that Santa Claus is watching them either >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > And you know this how? Have you died and not been able to go there? >> >> > Or >> >> > perhaps it is like most of the world belives and you just come back >> >> > for >> >> > a >> >> > new life. Who is to say it is not science for science does not speak >> >> > to >> >> > matters of the afterlife, and unless you have died and come back, >> >> > how >> >> > do >> >> > you know what happens afterwards. It is things like this that hurt >> >> > the >> >> > case of science, for it should speak only to it's own forts and >> >> > leave >> >> > the >> >> > rest to others better qualified. >> >> >> >> He knows this because it is written in the bible and the bible has >> >> proven >> >> to >> >> be less than trustworthy when relating events. Science doesn't say one >> >> whit >> >> about the afterlife, this is just common sense and reason and the >> >> knowledge >> >> of the Holey Babble. >> > >> > I have read at least one book related to people that died for a short >> > period of time (such as during surgery). The author interviewed dozens >> > of >> > those people and many of them told very similar stories. They saw a >> > tunnel >> > with a bright light at the end of it. They traveled to the light and >> > ended >> > up in heaven. Some of them told stories about relatives and friends >> > that >> > they met in heaven. Others told about meeting Jesus or God. Some told >> > about seeing the river of life and huge trees. One lady actully made >> > paintings of the grass and flowers that were similar to grass and >> > flowers >> > on the earth but the colors were MUCH brighter. I believed the >> > testimonies >> > of those people but I already know that atheists will NOT believe the >> > testimonies of those people. >> > Jason >> >> Jason, I told you many weeks ago that near death experiences(NDE's) are >> not >> uncommon, however, all NDE's occur with the person who experienced the >> NDE >> seeing what his or her religion says they will see. A Hindu reported that >> he >> saw the next life that he was to have. You fall in the same trap that all >> US >> Christians fall into, that Christianity is the only religion and that the >> US >> is the only country. > > The book that I read was written by a Christian and the people that he > interviewed were all Christians or became Christians after their NDE. One > person went to hell during his NDE and as a result is now a Christian. > Thanks for the info. about the Hindu that had a NDE. Thanks for the info?????? I just blew your pet theory out of the water and you say, "thanks for the info". Those of us who have been corresponding with you know that translates into, I have been outed and I'll lay low in the bushes and use this argument later. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071737290001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <3bAgi.2288$K9.1965@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2606072331270001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <1182920697.691354.172560@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> > gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: >> > >> >> On 26 Jun., 22:22, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > In article <1182888250.489184.198...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> > > On 26 Jun., 03:04, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > > In article <K3Zfi.7097$n9.2...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> > >> >> > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> > > > >news:Jason-2506071704090001@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > > > > > In article >> >> > > > > > <1182813173.218982.308...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > Martin >> >> > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> On Jun 26, 3:17 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > > > >> > In article >> >> > > > > >> > <1182773965.426707.320...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.c= >> >> om>, >> >> > > > > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> > > > > >> > > On 25 Jun., 03:18, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > > > > >> > > > In article >> >> > >> >> > <DipthotDipthot-A725FE.16174624062...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > > 655321 <DipthotDipt...@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> > > > > In article >> >> > > > > >> > > > > > <Jason-2306071116110...@66-52-22-111.lsan.pw-dia.impulse= >> >> .net>, >> >> > > > > >> > > > > J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > > > > I want to make it legal for teachers >> >> > > > > >> > > > > > to teach ID >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > > > But it is legal to do that... >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > > > ... in a comparative religions, class, for example. >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > > > So what's your problem? >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > > I was referring to high school science and biology >> >> > > > > >> > > > classes= >> >> . Of >> >> > > > > >> > > > course, >> >> > > > > >> > > > evolution should also be taught in those same >> >> > > > > >> > > > classes. >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > Why should a person with no understanding of science >> >> > (self-admitted) >> >> > > > > >> > > decide what should be taught in a science class? Why >> >> > > > > >> > > should >> >> > the US >> >> > > > > >> > > give up religious freedom? >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> > I posted a poll yesterday which indicated that most of >> >> > > > > >> > the >> >> > people that >> >> > > > > >> > live in Ohio want ID and Evolution to be taught in the >> >> > > > > >> > public >> >> > schools. >> >> > > > > >> > I >> >> > > > > >> > believe the people in Ohio should decide what subjects >> >> > > > > >> > should >> >> > be taught >> >> > > > > >> > in >> >> > > > > >> > the public schools. >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> What if people in Ohio wanted teachers to teach that the >> >> > > > > >> Earth >> >> > > > > >> w= >> >> as >> >> > > > > >> flat? Do you think teachers should go along with it? I'd >> >> > > > > >> quit >> >> > > > > >> outright. Their loss. >> >> > >> >> > > > > >> Martin >> >> > >> >> > > > > > The teachers that don't want to teach the established >> >> > > > > > curriculum = >> >> in a >> >> > > > > > state school should quit. >> >> > >> >> > > > > You side-stepped the issue Jason, do we let the public dictate >> >> > > > > what >> >> > science >> >> > > > > is correct?? Take you Jason, you are what is known as a >> >> > > > > scientific >> >> > > > > illiterate. Do we let you and people like you, chose the >> >> > > > > science >> >> > curriculum? >> >> > >> >> > > > No-- >> >> > >> >> > > In that case what you say below must be wrong. >> >> > >> >> > > >but the people that live in Ohio should have a voice in deciding >> >> > > > school curriculum. In this case over 60% of those people want >> >> > > > both >> >> > > > ID= >> >> and >> >> > > > evolution to be taught.- >> >> > >> >> > > And you just agreed that people ignorant of science should not >> >> > > determine the science curriculum. >> >> > >> >> > I doubt that most judges are experts related to science. I believe >> >> > that >> >> > elected representatives should determine education policy--not >> >> > unelected >> >> > evolutionists. Its my opinion that evoltionists do not want ID to be >> >> > taught since they are concerned the children would realize that ID >> >> > makes >> >> > more sense than evolution.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> > >> >> > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> > >> >> > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - >> >> >> >> Biologists are experts in science. The majority of the voters in Ohio >> >> are not, and you just agreed that people ignorant of science should >> >> not >> >> determine the science curriculum. >> > >> > I trust the elected members of school boards more than I trust >> > unelected >> > evolutionists. They have an agenda which is to prevent a competing >> > theory >> > from being taught. >> >> What unelected 'evolutionists'? Either explain your terminology or quit >> using it. You don't think a creationist school board has an agenda?? Have >> mercy! > > I explained why I use the term 'evolutionist' in another post. Summary > version: I found the term on page 8 of the Nov/2004 issue of National > Geographic. > > Yes, a creationist school board and evolutionist both have agendas. Well, can you explain the context in which you use the term or is that too difficult for you? Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:51:12 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2606072151130001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182911875.817851.235980@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob >T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: .... >> Why should anybody take the word of a Christian evangelist about the >> origins of Islam? Obviously he has an agenda. If you want to know >> about Islam, study history - do not listen to preachers. Likewise, if >> you want to know about Christianity, don't listen to Muslim preachers >> - they have an agenda, too. > >Yes--most everyone has an agenda. >Jason You certainly do. Still, you didn't respond to the problem you have. You have quoted lies about Islam from someone who misrepresents what Islam teaches. When that error was brought to your attention, you reveled in his lie. Learn. Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 In article <hov583lj5ae2qkflqgm11h8qqjh7jvc83n@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:06:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2706071006430001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > > > > >Jim, > >I doubt that ID will ever be taught in the public schoools so you have > >nothing to fear. Even if ID was taught, all of the problems you discussed > >would probably not happen. I have never done any research related to the > >many adults that are graduates of Christian high schools. It's my guess > >that the vast majority of them are not guilty of any of those things that > >you mentioned in your post. > >Jason > > Please remember that the vast majority of students who graduated from > Christian High Schools were never taught ID/Creationism or other > heresies. I only know about one of the local Christian schools. They teach both Evolution and creation science in that school. Quote
Guest Doug Meredith Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >Does the Bible state that Jesus was in the tomb 72 hours or three days? >If Jesus was placed in the tomb prior to sundown on Friday that would be day 1 >Saturday would be day 2 and Sunday-after sun-up would be day 3. That would >not be 72 hours but as far as the deciples were concerned--it would count >as the third day. You would think that a divinely inspired book would be the most unambiguous book ever written. Strange, I wonder if that could mean.... NAW. Doug Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 In article <mrDgi.17313$19.3321@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:Jason-2706071727150001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > In article <7rAgi.2306$K9.485@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> news:Jason-2706071403510001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> > In article <NVzgi.2269$K9.1264@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> >> news:Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > >> >> > In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >> > Silberstein > >> >> > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , > >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com > >> >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >> >> >Silberstein > >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , > >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com > >> >> >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> > >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt > >> >> >> >> >Silberstein > >> >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , > >> >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com > >> >> >> >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> > >> >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> [snip] > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in > >> >> >> >> >> >Ohio > >> >> >> >> >> >wanted > >> >> >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the > >> >> >> >> curriculum. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > >> >> >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much > >> >> >> >> with > >> >> >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court > >> >> >> >> ruled > >> >> >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand > >> >> >> >your > >> >> >> >point. > >> >> >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they > >> >> >> >had > >> >> >> >no > >> >> >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job > >> >> >> >the > >> >> >> >next > >> >> >> >time. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your > >> >> >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source > >> >> >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its > >> >> >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to > >> >> >> promote Christianity? > >> >> > > >> >> > Matt, > >> >> > Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could > >> >> > arrange > >> >> > to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of > >> >> > religion. > >> >> > They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they > >> >> > will > >> >> > never succeed. > >> >> > Jason > >> >> > >> >> They will never succeed because ID contains no science. Religion > >> >> abounds > >> >> in > >> >> ID and creation science for one important reason, it is there! > >> > > >> > I agree that religion abounds in ID and creation science. However, if > >> > God, > >> > Jesus and scriptures are NEVER mentioned in the text book or curriculum > >> > guide--it seems to me that a judge could not call it religion. For > >> > example, some people believe that astronauts from some other planet > >> > came > >> > to this planet millions of years ago and left behind dozens of people; > >> > some plants and some animals. Is that idea based on religion? The > >> > answer > >> > is no. In the last court case, the IDers did a terrible job since > >> > lawyers > >> > representing evolutionists found all sorts of evidence indicating that > >> > religion was involved. > >> > Jason > >> > >> You don't have to specifically name your religious figure in order to > >> find > >> that religion is involved. When the descriptions fit the bible then it > >> will > >> be assumed that it is the bible. > > > > Judges are to suppose to base their rulings on evidence--not assumptions. > > They do, Jason, the evidence points to religion. It did in the Dover case. My point was that the IDers will have to make sure there is NO evidence related to religion in the next court case. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:13:41 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2706071713420001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <G3Agi.2276$K9.86@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" ><mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706070154310001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <dMngi.16072$2v1.8743@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, >> > bm1@nonespam.com wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> > In article <8di383tk4k8aadt0l1ac85ua22n1mmct4f@4ax.com>, Don Kresch >> >> > <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> In alt.atheism On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:02:36 -0700, Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> (Jason) let us all know that: >> >> >> >> >> >>> In article <trWdnVoGW5eUORzbnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@comcast.com>, John >> >> >>> Popelish >> >> >>> <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> Jason wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> It seems to me that the child would be more comforted knowing that >> >> >>>>> the >> >> >>>>> child's grandmother was in heaven than being told that her >> >> > grandmother was >> >> >>>>> lying in a casket buried in the dirt. >> >> >>>> It also seems that the child would be even more comforted >> >> >>>> with a dose of morphine. Unfortunately, if you raise >> >> >>>> children on doses of either lies or opiates, they grow up to >> >> >>>> be adults with poorly developed minds. >> >> >>> You may have to give the child a dose of morphine after telling the >> >> >>> child >> >> >>> that her grandmother was not in heaven but instead was still in the >> >> >>> casket >> >> >>> that was buried in the dirt. >> >> >> It's better to have the truth than a comfortable lie, don't >> >> >> you agree? Comfortable lies come back to bite you later in life. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Don >> >> >> --- >> >> >> aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde >> >> >> Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. >> >> >> >> >> >> "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" >> >> >> Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" >> >> > >> >> > Christians do not consider it a lie. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> And yet, Jason, you want to usurp my rights and my childrens' rights to >> >> a secular education. >> > >> > Don't worry--as of now--the evolutionists are winning all of the court >> > cases. They don't want any competition. >> >> The 'evolutionists' have won because they are right. In the weeks I have >> dealt with you, you have been unable to tell any of us the science involved >> in creation science or ID and yet you continue to return to the court cases. >> You need to learn what is in the court cases if you want to continue to use >> them as an example. By the way, you have never defined for us your use of >> the word 'evolutionists'. Care to give that a try now, since you continue to >> use the term? > >This is where I found the term "evolutionist": > >I found these sentences on page 8 of the Nov/2004 issue of National Geographic: > >"...[Darwin] spent years classifying baracles. By 1854 he was known as a >barnacle expert--though not yet an evolutionist." > >The science involved related to creation science and ID is related to >fossils and rock strata. Dr. John Baumgardner is a geophysics professor at >the ICR Graduate School. He obtained his Ph.D in geophysics at UCLA. He >served as a staff scientist in the Theoretical Division of Los Alamos >National Laboratory for 20 years. Dr. Baumgardner and Dr. Steve Austin >have done lots of research at the Grand Canyon related to fossils and rock >strata > Jason, I don't care. You are dishonest. You are trying to sell the dishonesty of a small group of religious zealots who would rather lie than admit that they are wrong. The ICR and the rest of the ID/Creationist crowd have no evidence to support any of their claims. They are selling a religion, nothing else. You bought it. Now, you came here, and found out that the ICR took you for a fool. You are angry, but rather than take your anger out on those who fooled you, you are taking it out on those who are pointing out that you were fooled. That is a very immature reaction. Learn. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Jun 28, 1:10 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <f5u2fa$im...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > Jason wrote: > > > In article <f5j9aa$nq...@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > > <prabb...@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > > >>> In article <1182559237.898964.32...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > >>> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >>>> On Jun 23, 2:54 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >>>>> In article <dgtn73hm11dl8eval8ne1s1155rl2td...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > > >>>>> <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >>>>>> What scientific facts can they teach about Intelligent Design? > > >>>>> They have a textbook. The teachers would use the text book and > curriculum > > >>>>> guide to teach those classes. > > >>>> You didn't answer the question, Jason. > > > >>>> Martin > > >>> Martin, > > >>> I don't have a copy of the textbook or curriculum guide so don't know what > > >>> sort of facts are in that textbook and curriculum guide. > > >> Again, you didn't answer the question, Jason. It was "what scientific > > >> facts can they teach about ID?" and NOT "what scientific facts are > > >> contained in a specific book?" > > > >> If ID is scientific, then there should be some specific scientific facts > > >> that can be taught about it. What are some of them? > > > > Regardless, I don't know what scientific facts ID has. > > > Then how do you know it's scientific? > > > Try visiting their > > > website. > > > I don't need to. > > > > You never did answer my question. > > > Yes, I did and no, you didn't. > > > You mentioned all of the research that > > > has been done on that cluster of cells. What sort of creature evolved from > > > that cluster of cells? > > > All the creatures that you see around you. > > Please tell me about an experiment where a cluster of cells evolved into a > life form. When your parents chose to have you, Jason, they performed an experiment in which they gave birth to a life form that had originally evolved from a mere cluster of cells. Martin Quote
Guest Doug Meredith Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >It did in the Dover case. My point was that the IDers will have to make >sure there is NO evidence related to religion in the next court case. I think you will find that the other side will present this evidence. Doug Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:29:43 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2706071729440001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <4dp583lqrr9fhgchqv0633889v7s6mt8ni@4ax.com>, Michael Gray ><mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:41:07 -0000, Martin <phippsmartin@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> - Refer: <1182930067.182358.221560@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> >> >On Jun 27, 2:25 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> It's obvious to me that the evolutionists are afraid that the >> >> children will realize that ID makes more sense >> > >> >You don't seriously believe that, Jason. If you were then you would >> >be calling every qualified scientist alive today a liar. >> >> He has done that very thing on several occasions. >> >> -- > >Yes, I believe that evolutionists are afraid that the children will >realize that ID makes more sense than evolution. Your belief is completely delusional. The evidence _only_ supports evolution. >Otherwise, they would not >millions of dollars keeping ID from being taught in the public school >system. > What other lies do you want taught in school? Quote
Guest Jason Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 In article <0m06839l4gvfhtku198i6q55ed2odt2n6v@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:42:25 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: > >In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> (Jason) in > >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> > >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein > >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com > >> >> >> (Jason) in > >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> [snip] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live in Ohio wanted > >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? > >> >> > > >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. > >> >> > > >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the curriculum. > >> >> > >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about > >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty much with > >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained about the > >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the Court ruled > >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. > >> > > >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand your point. > >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they had no > >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better job the next > >> >time. > >> > >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that your > >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source > >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its > >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying to > >> promote Christianity? > > > >Matt, > >Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement could arrange > >to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of religion. > >They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps they will > >never succeed. > >Jason > > > I still cannot tell if you want them to actually engage in science or > try to be more subtle in telling lies. I want them to engage in science. The goal is unrelated to lies. The goal is comply with the law related to religion. The law states that religion should not be taught so they have to remove all EVIDENCE of religion in order to comply with the law. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:27:15 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2706071727150001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <7rAgi.2306$K9.485@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" ><mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > .... >> You don't have to specifically name your religious figure in order to find >> that religion is involved. When the descriptions fit the bible then it will >> be assumed that it is the bible. > >Judges are to suppose to base their rulings on evidence--not assumptions. > Jones did. That's why you owe him an apology for defaming him. Creationists have corrupted you. Learn. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2706071755270001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <mrDgi.17313$19.3321@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Jason-2706071727150001@66-52-22-70.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> > In article <7rAgi.2306$K9.485@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> news:Jason-2706071403510001@66-52-22-67.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> > In article <NVzgi.2269$K9.1264@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >> >> > <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >> >> news:Jason-2706071042260001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >> >> >> > In article <k3m4839mgss0cijljuel3pm2nk3jonlg9c@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >> > Silberstein >> >> >> > <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:16:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606072216110001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >In article <fqp3839gge41v4q43tmsag4qdme6g95nts@4ax.com>, Matt >> >> >> >> >Silberstein >> >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:12:36 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606072112370001@66-52-22-64.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >In article <vfk383lau8cr3oq9f2kglqucrlkn8mgn5s@4ax.com>, >> >> >> >> >> >Matt >> >> >> >> >> >Silberstein >> >> >> >> >> ><RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:49:32 -0700, in alt.atheism , >> >> >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com >> >> >> >> >> >> (Jason) in >> >> >> >> >> >> <Jason-2606071749330001@66-52-22-20.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [snip] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >The poll indicated that over 60% of the people that live >> >> >> >> >> >> >in >> >> >> >> >> >> >Ohio >> >> >> >> >> >> >wanted >> >> >> >> >> >> >both ID and evolution be taught in the public schools. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What if 60% wanted separate schools for blacks and whites? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >It would be illegal for a school board to do that. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> And it was illegal for the school board to put ID into the >> >> >> >> >> curriculum. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I suggest you go and look up the history of complaint about >> >> >> >> >> legislation from the bench. They started in the '50s pretty >> >> >> >> >> much >> >> >> >> >> with >> >> >> >> >> Brown v Topeka Board of Education. When people complained >> >> >> >> >> about >> >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> Court making law what they specifically meant was when the >> >> >> >> >> Court >> >> >> >> >> ruled >> >> >> >> >> that separate but "equal" schools were illegal. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Yes, we studied that case while I was in college. I understand >> >> >> >> >your >> >> >> >> >point. >> >> >> >> >The ID people should have done a better job in making sure they >> >> >> >> >had >> >> >> >> >no >> >> >> >> >religion mixed in--they failed. Perhaps they will do a better >> >> >> >> >job >> >> >> >> >the >> >> >> >> >next >> >> >> >> >time. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> How? I mean that. ID is religion, you admit over and over that >> >> >> >> your >> >> >> >> motives and goals are religious in nature and that your source >> >> >> >> material is religious. ID is religion and any attempt by its >> >> >> >> supporters to say otherwise is just lying. Do you support lying >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> promote Christianity? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Matt, >> >> >> > Yes, you are correct. However, the people in the ID movement >> >> >> > could >> >> >> > arrange >> >> >> > to do it in such a way that no court could find any evidence of >> >> >> > religion. >> >> >> > They tried to do it in the Dover case but they failed. Perhaps >> >> >> > they >> >> >> > will >> >> >> > never succeed. >> >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> >> >> They will never succeed because ID contains no science. Religion >> >> >> abounds >> >> >> in >> >> >> ID and creation science for one important reason, it is there! >> >> > >> >> > I agree that religion abounds in ID and creation science. However, >> >> > if >> >> > God, >> >> > Jesus and scriptures are NEVER mentioned in the text book or >> >> > curriculum >> >> > guide--it seems to me that a judge could not call it religion. For >> >> > example, some people believe that astronauts from some other planet >> >> > came >> >> > to this planet millions of years ago and left behind dozens of >> >> > people; >> >> > some plants and some animals. Is that idea based on religion? The >> >> > answer >> >> > is no. In the last court case, the IDers did a terrible job since >> >> > lawyers >> >> > representing evolutionists found all sorts of evidence indicating >> >> > that >> >> > religion was involved. >> >> > Jason >> >> >> >> You don't have to specifically name your religious figure in order to >> >> find >> >> that religion is involved. When the descriptions fit the bible then it >> >> will >> >> be assumed that it is the bible. >> > >> > Judges are to suppose to base their rulings on evidence--not >> > assumptions. >> >> They do, Jason, the evidence points to religion. > > It did in the Dover case. My point was that the IDers will have to make > sure there is NO evidence related to religion in the next court case. My point is that it is religion and they will never be able to overcome the reality of the situation. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Jun 28, 1:22 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1182929367.964907.126...@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jun 27, 12:54 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <1182913159.985342.95...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 27, 2:34 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > We are in agreement--evolution is a theory. Yes, the theory explains the > > > > > facts that are backed up with evidence. > > > > > Remember this the next time you claim there is no evidence supporting > > > > evolution. > > > > I have stated in other posts that I support Natural Selection. > > > Then you support the theory of evolution and admit that there are > > facts supporting it, facts backed up by actual evidence. Good. > > I don't support abiogenesis and common descent. But you can no longer claim that there isn't evidence supporting them. Martin Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:34:29 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2706071034300001@66-52-22-101.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>: >In article <1182943044.707042.5810@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >gudloos@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 27 Jun., 01:42, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > In article <1182890874.445300.325...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > gudl...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > On 26 Jun., 20:10, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > > > In article <1182873615.385634.169...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> snip >> >> > > The question was whether or not teachers should go along with teaching >> > > that the Earth is flat if the majority wanted that taught. You did >> > > not address that question at all. It is amazing how you lie about >> > > what everybody can see. >> > >> > One reason I did not respond is because that would never happen. Is the >> > correct term for this: non sequitur?- >> >> No, the question was quite valid. You want to allow the majority >> determine what will be taught regardless of their knowledge or >> experience. Are you willing to apply this to anything at all? Should >> we teach astrology in an astronomy class, since so many people believe >> in astronomy? Should the curriculum of medical schools be subject to >> popular vote? Why, in short, should we limit majority rule to just >> the teaching of creation science or ID? The question is very valid, >> yet you avoid it. > >I understand your point of view. > No you don't. If you did, you would also understand why you are working to undermine the Constitution just so some religiously-inspired lies could be taught. Quote
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